The Coffee
Will Make You Black
On-line Book Club Chat Transcript
The Wake of the Wind
by J. California Cooper
(Click to order via Amazon or Barnes and Noble)
Publisher: Doubleday & Company, Incorporated
Date Published: September 1998
Date of Chat
Sunday, Jan 12th, 2003 6PM
View the Rest of the Reading List
Thumper:
Hi everybody!
Melisha:
hey
Thumper:
It's good to
see you again. How is everything
Melisha:
prett cool
Melisha:
how about
you
Thumper:
Im doing
fair to middling. Have you read The Wake of The Wind?
Melisha:
whew its
been a loooooooooooong time
Melisha:
well I
started but it was kinda slow
Melisha:
did you?
Thumper:
I just finished it
yesterday. I hated reading it because its the last J. California Cooper book
that I have.
Melisha:
so what did you think?
Melisha:
perhaps you can convince
me to continue
Thumper:
I like it a lot. I
thought it was a little preachy in spaces. I see you're still not finishing
books. *smile* *eyebrow raised*
Melisha:
***guilty***
Thumper:
Where did you leave off?
Melisha:
please don't make me feel
worse
Melisha:
i think chapter 6
Thumper:
Are they still slaves?
Melisha:
they are on freedom road
Melisha:
lol@ your smiley face
Thumper:
Cool, aint it? *big
smile*
Melisha:
I'll go with this one
Thumper:
The book is pretty
mellow. There's not a lot of action or anything that will capture your
attention.
Melisha:
i know I was pretty bored
Melisha:
I was like I'm gonna
finish this book so thumper won't get me
Melisha:
but every time i looked
at it put me to sleep
Melisha:
so what is the story line
thump?
Thumper:
In a nutshell, it's
about Mor and Lifee and how they raise and make a family.
Melisha:
So why do u think cooper
chose to write such a book?
Thumper:
The story also shows how
hard it was to live in the reconstructed south, and how Mor and Lifee had to
leave several homes because the white folks got jealous of their success.
Melisha:
kinda like rosewood
Thumper:
I think Cooper was
trying to instill a sense of pride in young black readers. Educate them in
slavery and show the strength of what black folks had to endure in the US.
Melisha:
well what do you think is
the hook?
Thumper:
Cooper really wrote a
good story. The only problem I had with it was the fact that she preached so
much in the book and didn't trust her story enough to allow the story to carry
the moral.
Melisha:
so its just basically a
narration? Is cooper usually a storytelling author or does she write books that
have adventure
Thumper:
The only hook I can
think of is Cooper's writing style.
Thumper:
Cooper is usually a
storytelling author, more along the line of Alice Walker with that poignant,
graceful style.
Thumper:
There are some similar
elements that appears in every Cooper novel, that I've read. Family and showing
the Pudd'n Head Wilson thang she got going.
Melisha:
I mean I can't put it
down it was interesting but I guess like you're saying the preachiness did bore
me a little
Thumper:
You don't know about the
Pudd'n Head Wilson thang since you haven't gotten that deep into the book yet.
Melisha:
I was also kinda bored
with the slavery thang it seems kinda over used
Melisha:
and dang near cliche-ish
Melisha:
and dang near cliche-ish
Thumper:
Unfortunately, Cooper
kept preaching the same thing over and over again throughout the book. It's a
real shame too. I'm not usually bored with the slavery aspect of the novel.
Melisha:
I mean i understand she
has to tell a story though
Thumper:
In all reality, we need
more of them and less of the U Go Girl novels that don't seem to go away.
Melisha:
true
Melisha:
I'm not complaining
Melisha:
i guess i'm so used to
those kinda novels
Melisha:
the u go girl type
Thumper:
I understand.
Melisha:
so stuff that is really
good is boring to me
Melisha:
I just have to expand
myself
Linda:
Hi everybody!
Thumper:
Hey Linda
Melisha:
either everyone else is
watching football or they didn't like the movie either
Melisha:
i mean book
Melisha:
hi linda
Melisha:
unless they forgot
Linda:
Hey you
guys. I thought I was late. where is everyone
Melisha:
so thump what made you
change the day and time anyway?
Melisha:
don't know lin
Thumper:
Hey Linda, huh, well,
you are kinda late.
Melisha:
what did you think of the
book?
Linda:
I was eating and almost forgot
Thumper:
I had to change the date
and time because I no longer worked evening shift.
Melisha:
oh ok
Melisha:
so will it be this time
everytime or were u just testing it out?
Thumper:
It will be at this time,
eveytime for a while. If people have a problem with it, we can change it around
some.
Thumper:
It will be at this time,
eveytime for a while. If people have a problem with it, we can change it around
some.
Thumper:
Linda, what did you
think of the book?
Linda:
Didn't get to read it
yet
Thumper:
lol
Melisha:
thump and linda: I
thought it was kinda cool how cooper made liffee and mor come together after the
slave ship and being in different places in the u.s.
Melisha:
she seems to be
emphasizing reunions like you were saying family is a theme
Thumper:
I liked that. I thought
it would have been more interesting if she would have stuck with their
ancestors. Cooper always uses the family as a theme.
Melisha:
explain "with their
ancestors"
Thumper:
One of my favorite
Cooper book is Family. Which also plays into that Pudd'n head Wilson thang.
Yvette:
Hi everybody!
Yvette:
Bye, bye!
Linda:
Hi Yvette
Yvette:
Hi everybody!
Thumper:
Melisha: The two
Africans that starts the novel and she shows them being captured and sent on the
slave ship
Thumper:
Melisha: The two
Africans that starts the novel and she shows them being captured and sent on the
slave ship
Melisha:
hi yvete
Melisha:
yeah she did rush that
Yvette:
Hi There
Thumper:
Hi Yvette, how are you
doing today?
Melisha:
she could have talked
more about africa perhaps and showed how the family was united there
Thumper:
Yvette, how did you like
The Wake of The Wind
Melisha:
and how important family
was there and showed the contrast
Yvette:
I'm doing
good. I live in Alaska, so this getting home after church and trying to make the
chat on time is going to be a challenge. But, I'm glad to be here.
Yvette:
I Loved Wake
of the Wind
Melisha:
great
Thumper:
Glad you could make it.
*smile*
Yvette:
Did everyone
else like it?
Thumper:
Yvette, what did you
think of Lifee and Mor?
Melisha:
I didn't complete it
Thumper:
I liked it, although I
felt Cooper got a little preachy in spots.
Linda:
I haven't started it
yet.
Melisha:
may i comment on that
question thump
Yvette:
I thought
they had a very special relationship. Lifee was a strong woman and Mor was a
strong man. And the love that they had for each other was the glue that held the
story together.
Yvette:
Hey Thump,
in what way do you think she was preachy.
Thumper:
Sure, Melisha, knock
yourself out.
Yvette:
This was my
first J. California Cooper novel and I thought it was great.
Thumper:
Yvette: She got preachy
in a couple of spots. The main one was when the family was going to the Carolina
coast and Mor was talking to the children about slavery and white folks.
Melisha:
well from what i read I
have to say I respected Lifee because she married (though unwillingly) Mor
Melisha:
I mean she could have
easily left him after slavery
Thumper:
And Mor's speech went on
for two or three pages.
Yvette:
Oh yeah, it
did get a little preachy there.
Yvette:
That
Yvette:
Ooops,
that's true Melisha.
Melisha:
and furthermore since she
was used to finer things she could have found her some white beau to allow her
to live like she was in Louisiana
Yvette:
Although,
the likelihood of her getting somewhere and finding someone else was going to be
slim.
choc_Raisen:
Hi everybody!
Thumper:
Melisha: Mor could have
just as easily left her.
Yvette:
I don't
think she would have been interested in a white man considering what she had
gone through in slavery.
Thumper:
Hello choc_raisen, how
are you doing?
Linda:
Hi Choc Raisen
choc_Raisen:
Hi everyone
choc_Raisen:
So what part in the book are you discussing?
Melisha:
true thump
Thumper:
Choc_raisen, how did you
like The Wake of The Wind.
Melisha:
so what do you all think
made them stay together love? similar backgrounds? fear of future alone? what?
Thumper:
We were just discussing
Lifee being together with Mor.
Yvette:
Hi
choc_Raisen
choc_Raisen:
I really liked it.
Thumper:
Melisha, I think they
truly loved each other. It was a wonderful love story.
Yvette:
Melisha, I
think it was a combination of all that you stated.
Linda:
Bye, bye!
choc_Raisen:
I think Lifee saw the good qualities in Mor and
Melisha:
Do you all think this
book somehow reflects coopers life? bye linda
Thumper:
I believe Cooper depicit
what most of our families had to go through in order to survive, and she always
show strong family ties. I like that about her.
Yvette:
But, as
Thumper stated, I think love was the main thing.
choc_Raisen:
and she thought she could teach him
Thumper:
Yvette, do you think
you'll read another J. California Cooper book? Oh and what did you all think
about the twins?
Melisha:
well although i didn't
finish one thing i did like was how she made the blacks realistic (during
slavery) instead of otherizing them like american history books do
Melisha:
history books will have
you believe that blacks were just savages
Thumper:
choc_raisen: and Mor
wanted to learn. He wasn't intimidated by Lifee's education and strength.
Melisha:
but she seems to bring to
life that our ancestors did want family, did want morals, did want good things
for ourselves
Melisha:
true thump which another
man could have been abusive because his wife was more knowledgeable
Yvette:
Sorry guys.
Yes Thumper, I will definitely read another J. California Cooper novel.
choc_Raisen:
Mor was very thankful for having a women like Lifee
Yvette:
The Twins:
That was unbelievable.
Melisha:
Another thing I want to
point out is the contrast that cooper makes between the slavemaster's family and
lifee and mor did you all get that?
Melisha:
they had a parallel life
Thumper:
Melisha:
both were forced into
marriage basically
Melisha:
and when slavery was up
the white lady (can't remeber her name) just up and left and asked lifee to join
her
Melisha:
but lifee stayed and
tried to carve out a niche for herself
Melisha:
had even took some of the
money to help her out
Thumper:
Melisha: Sure I got
that. There was a sense of pride that ran through the whole novel. I like that
part as well.
Melisha:
yvette what happened with
the twins i don't think i read that far
Yvette:
One was
black and one was white.
Thumper:
What did you all think
of Mor not wanting to leave his land? Was he less of a man because he did, or
more?
Yvette:
One was for
the master and one was for Mor, biologically, that is. But is that possible.
Melisha:
do you all think that if
lifee had not experienced travel and finer things that she would have been as
loyal to Mor
Melisha:
she got pregnant by the
master?
Yvette:
Thumper: I
think he was more of a man. He had to protect his family from certain death.
Thumper:
Melisha: the white
woman's name was Morella. What a name? *big smile*
Yvette:
Melisha: He
raped her and on the same day she slept with Mor.
Melisha:
yeah those names were
seemingly simbolic
Thumper:
Melisha, read the story
dear.
Melisha:
lifee
Melisha:
ok thump
Melisha:
morella
Yvette:
Thump: What
did you think about the twins?
Thumper:
Yvette, biologically, it
is possible to become pregnant in such a way. Although its not common, it is
possible.
choc_Raisen:
I think if it wasn't for Lifee they wouldn't have the life
Melisha:
wow that is strange
choc_Raisen:
style they were living
Yvette:
Wow.
Melisha:
good point choc
Thumper:
I knew Cooper was going
to throw the one white, one black in the story somehow. The twin element is in
all of Cooper's novels. I liked the twins. Although I was more interested in Mor
and Lifee.
Yvette:
Interesting.
In all of her novels?
Melisha:
well i have a question?
Thumper:
choc_raisen: I don't
think Lifee could have done it without Mor, nor visa versa.
Yvette:
Are they
always black and white?
Melisha:
for you all
Melisha:
what do you think were
some excellent points of lifee and mor showing resistance?
choc_Raisen:
that's true Thumper, but Lifee always had a plan for the future
choc_Raisen:
she knew which way to go
Thumper:
Yvette: In her novel
Family, there's a baby switch. Both babies have the same white father, but the
mothers are the white wife and the black slave who is repeatedly raped by the
white man.
Thumper:
In In Search of
Satisfaction, the daughter who has a black father and a white mother is raised
white and it shows the relationship between her and her black sister.
Yvette:
Melisha: I'm
not sure I understand your question.
Thumper:
Cooper always has this
type of white-black dynamic going. What I love about her is that none of these
relationships are the same, each are different and unique.
Yvette:
I have
definitely found a new favorite in Cooper. I simply loved this book and look
forward to reading the rest of her stuff.
Melisha:
I mean what are some
subtle yet powerful ways that lifee and mor show resistence to the system
Melisha:
system of slavery system
of racism
Thumper:
The only resistance I
can see, and it wasn't resistence per se, it was plan smart, was Lifee using the
white folks to buy land, have a bank account when it was dangerous for blacks to
have those things.
Yvette:
I liked how
Lifee went about pretending they didn't have anything when she was using that
white woman to cash in those gold pieces.
Linda:
Hi everybody!
Yvette:
Yeah
Thumper, we were think alike there.
Melisha:
hi linda again
Thumper:
Yvette, I love Cooper.
She is one of my favorite authors of all times. Be sure to read her many short
story collections as well. It was her short stories that I first fell in love
with her.
choc_Raisen:
Hi Linda
Yvette:
I definitely
plan to. I can't wait.
Thumper:
And her sons were just
as smart. Remember how they bought all that land and the stock holdings and what
not.
Melisha:
so what you are saying
kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier that cooper gives life to our
ancestors by showing they are people and they are smart and have needs and wants
fulfilled like any other human being
Yvette:
That'
Thumper:
choc_raisen: was this
your first time reading Cooper?
Yvette:
Oops. That's
right. Throughout history, it has been the white man who has tried to dehumanize
us, not us.
choc_Raisen:
Yes, it was
Melisha:
though they try to say we
are ignorant and lazy cooper shows how we wanted to learn we wanted family we
wanted traditions just as any people and that slavery didn't wipe away the
desire for family but rather strengthened our desire for it
Melisha:
as a matter of fact it
seemed that the whites were more content with broken homes and immorality
Thumper:
Melsiha: Sure. She also
showed that there were some trifling ones, remember Ann and David? Her stories
always show, to me, that we should always be proud of our family and family
roots.
Yvette:
Historically
speaking, I believe that no other race of people have had the strong family ties
that the black race has enjoyed.
Yvette:
That is post
slavery. We weren't allowed to have our families during slavery.
Melisha:
i mean yvette even during
slavery the slaves tried to create family
Thumper:
Yvette:
They sure
did, even if it wasn't biological.
Linda:
Bye, bye!
Yvette:
Thumper:
Does that icon mean you're just chilling?
choc_Raisen:
What happen to us know?
choc_Raisen:
why don't we have the need to try to help each other out
Yvette:
choc: You
mean what's happened to our sense of family?
choc_Raisen:
where is the love the bond
Thumper:
Yvette: Right, post slavery.
Although it would have been during slavery if the slaves had their choice.
Cooper went out of her way to point this fact out and that it was the white
slave owners who born illegitmate children and then sold their own children off,
and in many cases had children with their own daughters.
choc_Raisen:
Yes,some of us just don't care about the value of family
Melisha:
good question i was
thinking the same thing chock
Thumper:
Yvette: I'm chillin'
*LOL*
Yvette:
I think that
we have gotten so wrapped up in striving for other things and have not made
family a priority.
Melisha:
is it an american thing
choc or just a black thing
choc_Raisen:
Well, it may be both, but more of a black thing
Thumper:
choc-raisen: I don't
think we all ever had that sense of family in the first place. It's a hard
question that can lead to some pretty ugly answers.
Yvette:
True dat,
Thump.
choc_Raisen:
It seems that there is more black on black crime and hate for one another
Thumper:
Melisha:
so thump you are saying
it is unrealistic to believe that all black familes were family how coop
represents
Yvette:
The
oppressed can't fight the oppressor, so they fight the oppressed.
Yvette:
Or, at
least, can't win a fight against the oppressor.
Yvette:
Who knows,
it's probably much deeper than that.
Thumper:
Choc_Raisen: But its
always been here. If there wasn't that hate for one another, there wouldn't have
been slaves in the US. It seem to me that the people in Africa would have killed
the white man first than to allow them to farm harvest his fellow countrymen.
Yvette:
I've always
wondered about that myself, Thump.
Melisha:
true thump
choc_Raisen:
that's true
Melisha:
i believe it is more
complex than just black vs. white I think we have had internal problems that go
back to africa and into antiquity
Thumper:
Melisha: I'm saying that
Cooper depicits families that are NOT normally depicit in history nor in today's
society. She shows that there is more than just blood that makes a family.
Marti:
Hi everybody!
choc_Raisen:
Hi Marti
Melisha:
true cause sometimes
family can be more vicious than strangers
Melisha:
hi marti
Thumper:
Melisha: Sure it's a lot
more complex than that, but I believe my statement is just the scratch on the
surface.
Thumper:
Hello Marti.
Thumper:
Thumper:
Well, everyone, I like to
thank you all for attending our first on-line chat for the year 2003. It's been
a long time and I missed it.
Melisha:
all in all i think that
cooper has a good story that reminds us of times past. we need a constant
reminder of where we came from because speaking especially for people my age(23)
and younger we don't have a real sense of family, morals, or what the hell the
slave experience was about or what martin luther king and malcolm tried to do.
we need that constant reminder
Yvette:
I did too.
I'm glad we're back at it again. It's been fun.
choc_Raisen:
By reading this book, it made me really think on how thankful I should be
Thumper:
I'm glad some of you
enjoyed our first book of the year. *smile* The second book is the new one from
Walter Mosley. Its a small essay book. I'm expanding my horizons. The book is
titled What's Next.
Yvette:
It gave me a
renewed sense of pride.
Thumper:
And...Don't hold me to
it, but we are trying to get Walter Mosley to attend our next on-line chat. So,
cross your fingers.
Melisha:
cool
Yvette:
Hey Thump.
Mosley's new book is nonfiction, right?
Thumper:
Yvette: I'm glad it did.
Its one of the reason I go back and re-read Cooper, to recharge my sense of
pride in myself and my family.
Yvette:
Thump: You
indicated that you wouldn't consider Wake of the Wind historical fiction. What
would you classify it as?
Thumper:
Mosley's What's next is
non-fiction.
Melisha:
so thump will u let us
know when the next chat is or do u know now?
Thumper:
Fiction. It has that
histoical sense about it because the story takes place in the past and Cooper is
usually pretty accurate, but its fiction to me.
Thumper:
Melisha: the next chat
should be on February 9, 2003
Yvette:
So in other
words, the historical fiction genre must have accurate accounts of history.
Melisha:
ok great discussion guys
Thumper:
Thanks everyone. This was
alright. We're a half hour over, but its cool.
choc_Raisen:
see everyone next month
Yvette:
Have a great
evening everyone and a safe week ahead!
Melisha:
bye all
Yvette:
Bye Melisha.
choc_Raisen:
choc_Raisen:
Bye, bye!
Melisha:
Bye, bye!
Thumper:
Yvette: not word for
word. I guess its a matter of perception. In my mind historica fiction is like
Jewell Parker Rhodes' The Douglass' Women or Magic City. Bebe Moore Campbell's
Your Blues Ain't Like Mine, or even John Oliver Killens' And Then We heard
Thunder.
Thumper:
bye everyone. I'm gone.