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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1707
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:27 am: | 
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Muhammad: Black women must remain feminine in a role-changing world
by Leslie Jones McCloud
June 20, 2005
The first woman to head a Nation of Islam mosque challenged hundreds of Black women Saturday to retain their femininity in a world where they are increasingly assuming the roles men have long maintained.
Minister Ava Muhammad, an attorney, author and activist who heads the Atlanta mosque of the Nation of Islam, was the keynote speaker at the “My Money, My Body, My Child: A Women's Conference for Social Change." The one-day affair was held at the University of Chicago School for Social Service Administration, to raise funds for Metropolitan Area Group for Igniting Civilization, said MAGIC Public Relations manager, James Muhammad.
In her two-hour speech, Muhammad addressed a variety of issues, especially as it relates to the male-female dynamic relationships and marriage.
"A woman can't accept when he says, ‘I can't, find a job and I can't pay
this bill,’” Muhammad said, adding that such a discussion could drive a man away, leaving the woman without a father to help her raise her children.
She also warned the mostly female audience not to act masculine in front of their children – even though they sometimes have to play the role of mother and father – because it could be harmful.
"The easiest thing to do is keep up appearances. Inside our minds are like a hive of killer bees but on the outside we're calm," Muhammad said, with the audience murmuring in agreement.
She reemphasized the problems that can occur when women exert "misused masculine energy," saying that it can contribute to the destruction of the community.
However, she cautioned that masculine energy that is exhibited by women was due to stress.
Even still, it can cause a fateful turn of events for the entire family, she said.
"So the men turn to drugs and the women aren't affectionate and also withhold their resources bracing herself for the day she fears he'll abandon her.
Whenmen eradicate fear in women, he'll see a change that's mind blowing. When
financial security is provided she will provide comfort," she said.
Also featured at the conference was a panel discussion, "Countering the Negative Images of Black Women in the Media," where prominent local women in media participated.
The conference also focused on topics such as domestic abuse, spiritual healing, mental illness and childhood obesity. Health screenings were held, in addition to a Neo soul concert at the Harold Washington Cultural Center.
"Yawn"
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3569
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:35 am: |
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Kola,
I think it is IMPORTANT that at certain times/circumstance a woman doesn't appear especially masculine. Because FEW men want a woman who acts as though she's got a bigger d@#$ than his.
But I ALSO think because so many men aren't around - for the fault of both men and women - women are being compelled to adopt some manly habits for the sake of survival/efficiency that they otherwise might eschew. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1710
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:42 am: |
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I disagree.
I'm extremely feminine and ALWAYS that way....it has nothing to do with men!
I have my own ideas about where masculine acting out comes from in the black community among females, but I'm not going to get into that right now, because it's over-done.
Anyway, Hip Hop sucks.
And I'm so tired of seeing all these black girls dressed in boys clothes, big ass jackets and sweats and shit.
But then---they say it's not safe in their neighborhoods for them to be too FEM.
It seems to me that with NO MEN AROUND, women would take their tits out, cook up a mess of food and just laugh the fuck out loud.
I do.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:51 am: |
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Kola,
I don't doubt your ideas.
But if you didn't have Thomas taking care of your basic needs, you might be forced to behave in some VERY manly ways.
It might NOT have anything to do with your inclination. Rather, you might 'learn' to behave like a man out of sheer necessity.
For example, imagine if you have children, live in the projects, you have no man and there's drug dealing everywhere.
BELIEVE ME!
To protect yourself and children, you're going to have to step-to some n*%%a's in a way that's HARDLY ladylike. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:43 am: |
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All:
Heh heh! I done wrote a song about this here!
Wanna hear it? Hear it is.
(Stomping his foot and strumming his guitar as ABM comes in on harmonica and Cynique backs us up on upright bass)
I don't need no woman to act in no fancy way
Them flighty mannerisms is all phoney any way
I just wants my woman
To treat her Daddy right! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:29 am: |
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Wow, CHRIS!!!
You are really gracing us with your presence today!!! I'm so glad. You usually respond to one thing every other day and then we don't see you until the next.
The WEIRD thing is----we've suddenly got only GUYS posting.
No Yvette, Mahogany, Cynique, Jackie, Lily, Moon or Roxie.
LOL. Where are they?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3583
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:42 am: |
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Chris,
You forgot to add the obligatory blues 'whine' at the end:
"AAIIIIIGH!! AAAIIIIIIGH!! Dank yu ver' much!!"
Kola,
Perhaps they are tending to a heapin' backlog of 'man's' work'. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:46 am: |
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Nyibol's at school, probably.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:08 pm: |
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I think it's VERY hard to grow up without a father and turn out overtly feminine.
If you notice, the most feminine women are the ones who were constantly WATERED with male attention and the attentions of the whole society.
Even black women "disregard" the femininity of their daughters----or certain ones-----assuming that those daughters won't have many avenues to exhibit their femininity in the first place.
It's more than tragic---that we are here WATCHING the annihlation of our own people and our own culture, all because, we we're most continent being the slaves and mascots of the society and don't want to challenge the society.
Not enough of us anyway.
To make any difference.
_______________
I tell you one thing.
The Authentic Black People need to form a movement REAL QUICK, demanding to salvage some vestage of their African essence----otherwise, the Holocaust of "color" IN AMERICA will be the world's first successful one.
Eventually---a black man can't get born, if there's no black women.
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Radiationx
Newbie Poster
Username: Radiationx
Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:36 pm: |
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"It seems to me that with NO MEN AROUND, women would take their tits out, cook up a mess of food and just laugh the fuck out loud.
I do".
I disagree that women, in general, in the absence of men would want to expose their breast.The whole issuse of women going topless in public is kind of funny. I mean really, only a tiny, tiny, minority of women would do it if they could.I probably couldn't stop laughing if such a thing were to happen. Can you imagine a woman with huge breast wanting to hang them out in public?I can't, and you know why? You women would be more critical of each others breast than any man could be.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 501
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:37 pm: |
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*raising hand*
"I'm here, teacher!"
Seriously: My kids started five weeks of day camp so I am taking advantage of this glorious opportunity to get caught up on some dissertation work. Been enjoying the conversations, new people, topics, photos, etc.
Chris: Like your song (can I play tambourine?)...
But, I already have one "Daddy"--I need and expect my Man to be my Man. I think too many women confuse "femininity" with "child-like"--Mature, grown folks do all sorts of things, many which may seem to be "men's stuff." But it's not being less of a woman because you can kill a spider or hammer in a nail or pay a bill; It's being a grownup and not a child.
Men would do well, too, to worry less about "how to be a man" (and whether or not other men--or women too, apparently, have a "bigger d***" than them) and concentrate more on "how to be an adult."
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:53 pm: |
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Seems to me a man who respires with animal magnetism would bring out a woman's innate feminity; something to do with power being a great aphrodisiac - nothing to do with weakness disguised as braggadocio. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1719
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:16 pm: |
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Yvette,
I kill spiders, build ovens, build boats, ride horses, chop wood, kill snakes, talk in a throaty voice
...and I'm supremely feminine doing it.
I agree with you.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1720
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:17 pm: |
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Cynique---fantastically witty and intelligent writing on your part, as usual.
I'm sure Slow Poke will be in with the STARS and silence soon. LOL
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1721
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:20 pm: |
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RAD, my comments about women taking their tits out was actually a "metaphor"----sort of like "Let their hair down". Of course, because it was Kola who said it---I can understand you taking me literal.
I wouldn't expect American Christian, Jewish or Muslim women to walk around topless.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 502
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
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Kola, CHILL, already with the italics and boldface!  LOL |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:02 pm: |
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Otay.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3590
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:13 pm: |
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Radiationx,
I think were we socialized differently, women wouldn’t be much at all bothered by cooking topless together (any more perhaps than might men be with being topless while performing yard work together). Perhaps the only fear a busty sistah might have is whether she might mistakenly dip a nipple in the spaghetti sauce.
Kola,
Funny.
People are ALWAY bragging about how ladylike and poised my daughters are.
Which is odd to my wife and me. Because we're not especially prim/proper people. We're actually pretty straightforward (Okay, bland.)
Yet it seldom fails. If they're around other foks any period of time, we get these compliments.
And, GOD, you should see the way strange White people will often crawl all over them. Not to sound racist: But THAT I can't help but find kinda 'creepy'.
Yes. I think my being around DEFINITELY is an influence there.
I'm sure they develop their sense of place/decorum based largely upon how my wife and I interact. And we openly express our love for each other in their presence (sans the skin-slapping of course).
I also suspect it is at least in part may be hormonal. Perhaps the presence of my fatherly testosterone beckons more estrogen from them.
And they often vie for my attention with each other, and even my WIFE. It's mostly funny, but at times kinda scary.
I better not DARE do something for one without doing substantial the equivalent for the other.
And I better square things up...SOON!
I often have these mini 'terror' moments that if I screw up and don't even the score between them quickly enough, they'll probably kill me first...then each other.
Given some of their innate inclinations, I would not even want to imagine what my daughters might be like were I NOT around.
Brothahs need to stop all the BS, rationalizing and skirtchasing and go take care of their kids. Your sons and your daughters desperately NEED you!
Okay. I don't really know what the *blank* I'm talking about here. But I guess it sounds good to me.
'Vette,
I agree with you about sistahs often mistaking their men for their fathers. But if a woman NEVER had a father how is she ever to find that balance that's necessary to have a good relationship with a man?
Yes, we can suggest what they should do? But how do they resolve that confusion, anger and longing?
Btw: It's okay for a man to brag. Bravado is a natural part of masculine energy. And, if done cleverly, it can be fun like any other forms of human discourse (e.g., joking, playing dress-up, gawdawful shower singing, etc.) So long as when the time comes due, he can back it up. And there's MORE to him than just his alleged or actual "di#$-size". *wink* |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 504
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:21 pm: |
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But if a woman NEVER had a father how is she ever to find that balance that's necessary to have a good relationship with a man?
Point taken. Even though my parents divorced, I was an adult when that happened and always had him around growing up.
Yes, this truly is a sad thing.
Having said this, I might want you all's opinion about a big controversy brewing in my field right now about the main professional organization in the field participating w/Bush's "Healthy Marriage Initiative" to encourage low income folks to get married... Maybe I'll start a new thread.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3592
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 04:08 pm: |
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'Vette,
Please start the thread. I'd LOVE to get into a discussion about this Healthy Marriage Initiative(& Pork Barrel Scheme)! |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 139
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:03 pm: |
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LiLi is here. Im werkin mah azz off. I believe women should dress how ever they like. Teens however have no rights if they: live under your roof even if they buy thier own clothes or live under your roof.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3598
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:08 am: |
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LiLi,
I concur in 'principle'.
However, I think the MORE women look like men, the MORE men will treat you like men.
And the MORE you look like hookers, the MORE men will treat you like hookers.
If THOSE are whatcha want, cool. If not, then change the gear, Baby girl...change the gear. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 143
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |
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I dress "like a man" and have no trouble being treated like a WOman. I have done the "hooker" look and never been treated like a hooker..I dont think since I dont know how men treat hookers..but now that you said it..whats that like..?? (better check this out)LOL Oh hail, Im too old now it dont matter..LOL
LiLi |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3636
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 10:49 pm: |
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LiLi,
Okay. You CERTAINLY know better how you've been treated than I have.
But you don't what men do to hookers? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 542
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:21 pm: |
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I'm shocked that the NOI allowed this woman to speak--maybe it's just my ignorance. Nevertheless, I agree with some of her thoughts. However, there are many women who live in dangerous environments. Their behavior is a matter of survival. Underneath that "hard" exterior is usually a very soft, loving woman who just needs stability.
On the flip side, I do understand the point that Ava Muhammad made when she said (paraphrasing) that displaying masculine energy can have negative repercussions within the family unit--but so can the energy of a man who won't work....or treats his wife like a bytch just because he thinks his "manhood" and "authority" is more important....more valued. I think that's proably worse for children to witness.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 146
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:39 pm: |
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Abm..umm NO..
LiLi |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3651
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 06:44 am: |
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LiLi,
Sorry. I meant: "But you don't know what men do to hookers?" |
Rustang
Veteran Poster
Username: Rustang
Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:47 am: |
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What men do to hookers and how men treat hookers are two different things.If they flatly refuse to kiss you,LiLi,then you were probably being treated like a hooker. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3662
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 03:02 pm: |
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Rustang,
I guess where we slightly differ is I include the non-kissing clause within what men "do to hookers".
But no biggie.
Hehehe! |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 148
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 07:51 pm: |
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Whew..thank goodness I have not been treated like a hooker.
LiLi |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3675
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 11:35 am: |
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LiLi,
Uh...good. Glad you have such lofty expectations. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 155
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 12:18 pm: |
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Abm..? LOL
LiLi |
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