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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:16 am: | 
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We always ask this question and few people answer. What Pretell are you reading?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3567
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:26 am: |
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I'm about 3/4th's through Dr. Michael Eric Dyson's "Is Cosby Right".
I'd give it mostly high marks. But I'll wait until I'm done before I give a more detailed review. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:28 am: |
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Thanks for sharing, ABM. 
I loved that book!!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3570
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:37 am: |
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Kola,
I'm GLAD you're read it. THAT will motivate me to finish it so that we can enjoy some lively discussions.
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Radiationx
Newbie Poster
Username: Radiationx
Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:23 am: |
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Soul On Ice & The God Of Small Things. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3579
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:49 am: |
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RTX,
Funny. Though it seems seldom criticized for such, "Soul On Ice" largely pertains to what Kola often laments here: The brothahs obsession with White women. |
Radiationx
Newbie Poster
Username: Radiationx
Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:00 am: |
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Yes it does, but i never read it before so i had to see for myself. The God of Small Things is excellent though. It tells the story Of a relationship between a Dalit man and a woman of higher caste in India. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1233
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:45 am: |
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The thing I am reading right now is the manuscript of my latest novel tentatively titled
"Situation Normal" |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1711
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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Yeah, I found/find Eldridge Cleaver to be one of the most despicable human beings that ever lived.
And MOSTLY by comments he made in the 1980's (basically saying that White women are just "genetically" more beautiful than black ones, who he described as the world's most unattractive women, and note: His wife, Kathleen Cleaver, looked like a White Woman, and that was why he married her)---not to mention he was a serial rapist.
I DID, however, think he showed some writing talent with Soul On Ice.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3584
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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Kola,
I don't know if I agree Cleaver was "one of the most despicable human beings that ever lived., " unless you're talking about a fairly lengthy list.
But I do concur with your premises.
Yes. Cleaver had his talents, which included amongst other traits strong writing skills.
But what an GD evil, self-hating, duplicitous, hypocrite he was!
And, to be honest, as I read Soul On Ice, I got the impression I was observing the paradoxically informative, entertaining and malevolent musings of a talented, charismatic madman. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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ABM, I'm sure that his gleeful descriptions of how he stalked and raped black women---to practice raping white ones didn't rub you the same way it rubbed me.
In fact, I've known Black men who read that book and didn't even notice the full weight of what he was saying. To them---raised in a Pimp Superfly Culture---it was NORMAL.
touche
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3587
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:27 pm: |
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Kola,
Au Contraire, mon amie.
I am likely as incensed (in concept, if not feminine feeling) by Cleaver's malevolence as you are. In fact, I am so enraged by the 'style' of rapist that Cleaver was that I would have gleefully advocated his anesthetized castration.
Because a Black man who preys upon White women in the manner that he enjoyed callously invites havoc upon countless other innocent Black men/families.
(Had Cleaver been plundering White women in 1940's Mississippi, probably a dozen innocent brothahs and the foks who tried to defend them, would have been lynched.)
It's just that when I think of the most "despicable" men to have lived, I usually reserve such level of reproach for guys like Hitler, Genghis Khan, Nero, slave traders, and other men of THEIR 'ilk'.
Perspective: Considering his lineal progeny numbers MILLIONS, one could assume that Genghis Khan might have bullied, abused and raped more women in a WEEK than did Cleaver in a lifetime. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 01:32 pm: |
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Because a Black man who preys upon White women in the manner that he enjoyed callously invites havoc upon countless other innocent Black men/families.
KOLA:
But what about the way he prayed on our own black women!!??
How does THAT effect the black community?
See, this is what I meant by:
I've known Black men who read that book and didn't even notice the full weight of what he was saying (about black women). To them---raised in a Pimp Superfly Culture---it was NORMAL.
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Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:02 pm: |
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re: Genghis Khan
There's a new book called "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack Weatherford. A friend recommended it so I've been thinking about it. Looks like it might be an interesting read.
From the Publisher's Weekly synopsis at Amazon.com:
"On a smaller scale, Weatherford also devotes much attention to dismantling our notions of Genghis Khan as a brute. By his telling, the great general was a secular but faithful Christian, a progressive free trader, a regretful failed parent and a loving if polygamous husband. With appreciative descriptions of the sometimes tender tyrant, this chronicle supplies just enough personal and world history to satisfy any reader."
From the High School Library Journal synopsis, also at Amazon.com:
"Although his name is now erroneously associated with terror and slaughter, he showed surprising restraint during a time when few others in power did. He allowed freedom of religion, encouraged free trade, developed a paper currency, and observed diplomatic immunity. As he encountered new cultures, he adopted or adapted their best practices, and constantly updated his military strategies. Although Khan's death occurs at the midpoint of this book, the tales of his survivors' exploits and the gradual fall of the Mongol dynasties are engaging and informative. Weatherford's efforts to credit Genghis Khan and his descendants with the ideas and innovations that created the Renaissance are a bit bewildering, but readers will be left with a new appreciation of a maligned culture, and a desire to learn more."
The following site contains a few excerpts from the book, note the one which attributes European anti-Asian and anti-Mongol views to the Age of Enlightenment (Voltaire and co.) and not the Renaissance (Chaucer and the like):
Geoffrey Chaucer’s Writings on Genghis Khan
"The imagery of Mongol greatness received its clearest statement around 1390 by Geoffrey Chaucer, who had traveled widely in France and Italy on diplomatic business and had a far more international perspective than many of the people for whom he wrote. In The Canterbury Tales, the first book written in English, the longest tale relates a romantic and fanciful tale about the life and adventures of Genghis Khan:
This noble king was called Genghis Khan,
Who in his time was of great renown
That there was nowhere in no region
So excellent a lord in all things.
He lacked nothing that belonged to a king.
As of the sect of which he was born
He kept his law, to which that he was sworn.
And thereto he was hardy, wise, and rich,
And piteous and just, always liked;
Soothe of his word, benign, and honorable,
Of his courage as any center stable;
Young, fresh, and strong, in arms desirous
As any bachelor of all his house.
A fair person he was and fortunate,
And kept always so well royal estate
That there was nowhere such another man.
This noble king, the Tartar Genghis Khan.
Development of European Anti-Asian & Anti-Mongol Views During the Enlightenment Period
"Whereas the Renaissance writers and explorers treated Genghis Khan and the Mongols with open adulation, the eighteenth-century Enlightenment in Europe produced a growing anti-Asian spirit that often focused on the Mongols, in particular, as the symbol of everything evil or defective in that massive continent. As early as 1748, the French philosopher Montesquieu set the tone in his treatise The Spirit of the Laws, holding the Asian in haughty contempt and blaming much of their detestable qualities on the Mongols, whom he labeled, “the most singular people on earth.” He described them as both servile slaves and cruel masters. He attributed to them all the major attacks on civilization from ancient Greece to Persia: “They have destroyed Asia, from India even to the Mediterranean; and all the country which forms the east of Persia they have rendered a desert.” Montesquieu glorified the tribal origins of Europeans as the harbingers of democracy while he condemned the tribal people of Asia: “The Tartars who destroyed the Grecian Empire established in the conquered countries slavery and despotic power: the Goths, after subduing the Roman Empire, founded monarchy and liberty.” Based on this history, he summarily dismissed all of Asian civilization: “There reigns in Asia a servile spirit, which they have never been able to shake off, and it is impossible to find in all the histories of that country a single passage which discovers a freedom of spirit; we shall never see anything there but the excess of slavery.” . . . .
http://www.mongolianculture.com/Excerpts%20Jack%20Weatherford.htm
I don't know much about the guy, but is it possible he's been maligned for all these years? I think I'll read it and get back to you : ) thanks |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1718
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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Wow, that does sound good.
I watched a documentary about Genghis Khan and it scared the hell out of me!
Thanks so much for helping out Anonymous and please come back and post more book news when you can.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1238
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 03:23 pm: |
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For Khan Lovers:
On this list of massacres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres
Genghis comes in for these
June 1220 Samarkand Massacre ~75,000 Samarkand, Khwarezm (present day Iran and Iraq) During Mongols under Genghis Khan sieged to the capitol city of Khwarezm and, after the Turkish garrison surrendered the city, drove out the remaining population slaughtering over 75,000 men, women, and children.
June 1221 Herat Massacre 1,600,000 Herat Ghengis Khan destroys the city and massacres the population.
And let's not forget these immortal words from him
"My greatest joy is to shed the blood of my enemies, wring tears from their womenfolk and take their daughters for bedding."
Not a nice man. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3593
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 04:46 pm: |
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Chris,
'Anonymous' can talk his(her) @$$ off. Genghis Khan was a MOFO'er of the deadliest order.
You gottah understand. Khan killed, raped and pillaged to such an utter degree (I think at some point he'd conquered a FOURTH of the world's estimated population.) that even NOW there's sort of supernatural mythology about him.
THAT, plus the fact that dude RAPED so many women, there's a 'puncher's chance' that text about him might be authored by his DESCENDANTS.
HAHAHA!
PS: It might prove an interesting math problem to figure a range of the number of women Khan probably raped, impregnated and gave birth to his children based on there currently being an estimated +13 MILLION lineal Khan descendents.
Kola,
At times, it can be intellectually strifling when you (compulsively) 'rank' what someone says along your "But what about the plight of Black women." barometer.
Person #1: Did you see Leonardo Dicaprio got busted upside the head by a fan.
Person #2: SO! What about all the BLACK WOMEN who get their @$$e$ kicked everyday by their self-hating boyfriends?
Person #1: Uhhhh...Sorry?
Person: #1: WOW! Did you hear that over 200,000 people died during last year's Tsunami.
Person: #2: SO! What about the millions of BLACK WOMEN who were raped/killed during the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
Person #1: ????
Person: #1: Did you hear? GM's laying off 50,000 workers.
Person: #2: SO! During slavery BLACK WOMEN had to...Hey! Why are you leaving? Come back. I wasn't finished!
Person: #1: <exasperated!> |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1723
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 04:50 pm: |
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ABM.
You brought up WHITE WOMEN being raped by Black men.
I stand by my original question:
But what about the way he prayed on our own black women!!??
How does THAT effect the black community?
See, this is what I meant by:
I've known Black men who read that book and didn't even notice the full weight of what he was saying (about black women). To them---raised in a Pimp Superfly Culture---it was NORMAL.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1724
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 04:52 pm: |
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TELL US WHAT YOU'RE READING!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3595
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 05:43 pm: |
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Kola,
Okay.
Any man who stalks and rapes women, whether they are Black, White or Yellow should be castrated. Then he should made the prison bunk mate of a frisky 400 lb dude whose nickname is "Rough Rider".
There now. Good enough for yah? |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 140
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:07 pm: |
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Im reading "Betrayal of The Trust" Leslie Esdaile
I like it. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 506
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 08:19 am: |
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"The Genome War" James Shreeve
3 dissertations based on the Minnesota-Texas Adoption Research Project |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3599
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:11 am: |
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'Vette,
Is "The Genome War" non-fiction?
How is it? |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 11:19 am: |
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Well, I'm reading three books at once:
* "Memoirs of a geisha" by Arthur Golden(which I'm trying to finish before the movie comes out.)
* "An obedient Father" by Akhil Sharma
* "Kindred" by Octavia E. Butler |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3608
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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roXie,
I too read "Memoirs of a Geisha" a few years back. It was for me a bit slow. But it was interesting and informative, as it dispelled within me certain myths about that 'profession'. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 509
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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Is "The Genome War" non-fiction? How is it?
Yes, it is. So far--very good (approx 1/2-way thru). Extremely technical things about molecular biology are explained in a very engaging, accessible manner. (And, from what I have read previously about the topic--tho by no menas am I an expert--in a fairly accurate manner as well.)
Plus all the drama, and backbiting, and egos of all the scientists involved--REALLY great stuff. Who says the adventures of "science nerds" can't make for compelling narratives? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 510
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Chrishayden: ETA for "Situation Normal"? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3613
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 01:09 pm: |
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'Vette,
Thanks!
Based on what you've read, what seems to be the biggest controversies regarding genome discovery? And 'who' will like win the argument(s)? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1247
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:34 am: |
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Yvettep:
What is ETA? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 518
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:48 am: |
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When do you estimate it'll be coming out? ("estimated time of arrival") |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
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Yvettep:
Now that is a good question--- |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 519
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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biggest controversies regarding genome discovery? And 'who' will like win the argument(s)?
The book is focussed on the "race" in the late 90s, early 00s by a private outfit and our tax-funded public efforts to "decode" the entire human genome. The public effort was able to come in ahead of schedule, based largely on fears that the private company would beat them and then make our human code available for sale to the highest bidder.
Some of the biggest battles left as far as I am concerned/interested in will involve disentangling what "race" means on a genetic level, attempts to establish links between genetics and more behavioral aspects (e.g., "criminality" as opposed to, say, more "medical" aspects like diabetes), and continuing battles over patents, intellectual property and the like.
Who will eventually "win"? Who knows... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3663
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 03:15 pm: |
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'Vette,
Thanks.
The licensing issue will be mess! How can one company or individual be allowed to 'own' the directions to human coding?
And, yeah, I can see all kinds of crackpot race theory generated from genome studies.
This is ONE of the MANY reasons why I wish there were MANY more Black scientists/mathematicians. |
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