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     Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1383 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Just as I go and make friends with the TOP GUY in New York----------he quits his job.  READ: By EDWARD WYATT Published: June 9, 2005 Jonathan Karp, the editor in chief of the flagship imprint of Random House Inc., resigned unexpectedly yesterday, saying he wanted to seek new opportunities, possibly outside publishing. The resignation was a surprise because Mr. Karp, 41, is one of the most successful editors at Random House, the most visible imprint at the giant publishing company of the same name. Among the books acquired and edited by Mr. Karp in recent years are the nonfiction best sellers "Seabiscuit," by Laura Hillenbrand; "Shadow Divers," by Robert Kurson; and the novel "The Dante Club," by Matthew Pearl. Mr. Karp, who has been at Random House for 16 years, said the decision to leave was his own. "Sometimes in life you have to take risks," he said in an interview. "One of my favorite writers, Jane Jacobs, talks about the benefits of drift in life. After 16 years, I want to do a little creative drifting. I honestly don't know what is out there, but I'm certain there are exciting opportunities." In a letter to employees in the Random House Publishing Group, the division that also includes the Ballantine, Del Rey and Fawcett imprints, Gina Centrello, its president and publisher, said Mr. Karp was "one of the leading contributors to and beneficiaries of the Random House legacy." In an interview, Ms. Centrello said that Mr. Karp decided to leave and was not fired. "I think he wants to run his own business," she said. "We talked about some of the different things he could do here," including possibly establishing his own imprint, an inducement that publishing companies sometimes offer esteemed editors. "But he felt that he needed to do this outside of the Random House Publishing Group," Ms. Centrello added. Mr. Karp, once considered a wunderkind, has long been known to harbor higher aspirations, possibly to become a publisher. As editor in chief, he did not control Random House's budget or have the final say over how much to pay authors for new books. He pushed for the editor in chief title after Ann Godoff was forced out as publisher and editor in chief of Random House in early 2003. The job, however, was given to Daniel Menaker, an executive editor at HarperCollins, who had previously worked at Random House and The New Yorker. Mr. Karp was promoted to editor in chief of Random House and a smaller imprint, Villard, about a year ago, when Mr. Menaker was named executive editor in chief, overseeing both the Random House and Ballantine imprints. Yesterday, Ms. Centrello said that the position of editor in chief of Random House and Villard was being eliminated and that Mr. Karp's responsibilities would be assumed by Mr. Menaker. As recently as last Thursday, Mr. Karp was the public face of Random House, representing the company in a panel discussion at the annual BookExpo America convention, where prominent editors talk about their most promising books for the fall season. Mr. Karp pitched two books: "The Lost Painting," a nonfiction work by Jonathan Harr, author of "A Civil Action"; and "Maybe a Miracle," a first novel by Brian Strause, to be published by Ballantine. Mr. Karp left Random House once before. In 2000, he moved to Scott Rudin Productions, a film production company, but returned to Random House after only seven weeks. "That was a manifestation of my desire to take a risk," he said. "Unfortunately it didn't work out." | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3298 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Class. It's time again for another lesson in how to interpret bvll$#*+ PR spin: 1) "The resignation was a surprise because Mr. Karp, 41, is one of the most successful editors at Random House, the most visible imprint at the giant publishing company of the same name..." 2) "[Karp] pushed for the editor in chief title after Ann Godoff was forced out as publisher and editor in chief of Random House in early 2003. The job, however, was given to Daniel Menaker... 3) "the position of editor in chief of Random House and Villard was being eliminated and that Mr. Karp's responsibilities would be assumed by Mr. Menaker..." 4) "As recently as last Thursday, Mr. Karp was the public face of Random House, representing the company in a panel discussion at the annual BookExpo America convention, where prominent editors talk about their most promising books for the fall season." NOW... Does all the appear consistent with someone who really thinks and believes: "After SIXTEEN years, I want to do a little creative drifting. I honestly don't know what is out there, but I'm certain there are exciting opportunities." WHATACROCKACOWCHIPS! One of the 2 REALLY happened: The Menaker dude been wanting to can Karp @$$ and take his gig from the word go and been looking for ANY reason ever since. But Karp solid record didn't support his doing that. But something happened... Karp said/did something that particularly pissed Menaker the f*#$ off (e.g., Maybe he didn't like something Karp said/did at the BookExpo!). A HUGE d#$% measuring, chest-thumpin' session ensued thus the 'masters' at Random House were forced to choose their Publisher over their Editor. OR Maybe Menaker convinced Random House's masters that Karp was trying to steal away their prime authors and tossed him. Whether Karp was or wasn't conniving is irrevelant cause all what's needed was just enough 'proof' for Menaker to get what he's wanted ever since he first because publisher. But Karp has hardearned loyalties with those authors. Thus, to avoid antagonizg/losing them, Random House elects to avoid exposing Karp provided he quietly goes away. Which is what Karp does...as he discern the most current modes of "creative drifting". | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1388 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Well, damn, ABM. It seems as though YOU'RE the boy I need to be in touch with. PLEASE...why don't you do something to push my career through, ABM. I need to get off this itty-bitty label, daddy. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3300 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I'll look into my bag of tricks and see what I can do. Though, seriously, you're such a talented writer/intellectual, you could score any number of lucrative writing gigs if you could/would just expanded your perspective a bit. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1391 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, why would I be friendly with KARP if I wasn't expanding my perspective? And in reality....just because I have standards and beliefs.....does not mean that I'm not able to be friends and interact with people of a different mindset. If you notice--it's actually the opposite. Americans have the expectation that you MUST think exactly do exactly like them...otherwise, you're not a nice person. How can anyone read my books and claim that my perspective is not all inclusive? It's asking me direct questions that results in direct answers from an African-thinking person. I don't see why Spike Lee and Farrakhan and Howard Stern can exist...and not Kola Boof. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3302 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I not sure of what you mean. But I wasn't really referring to you attitude or persona. I was actually thinking more about your attempting other modes/media of writing. I agree you deserve to have your say like everyone else. Sometimes, though, we might have to have our say in ways we hadn't previously considered. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1394 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM HOW do I start writing for film and t.v. media as you suggested? You know it's my dream to be a filmmaker, but HOW do I realistically jump into that pool? I'm a book writer. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3304 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I'm not sure. But I think you could start acquiring credits via with something small. Local theatre, performance art, film/documentaries and/or public access TV/Cable, etc. might be a good place to start preparing the depth/breadth of work necessary to be considered for bigger projects. You have all the raw talent you need. But maybe you can collaborate with those who have the specific skill-set you lack. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1398 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Thanx ABM. Over the last few hours, I've spoken to a friend who said that my published novels are already enough to get me in the door and all I need to do is write a script and get an agent. I'm supposed to be writing a novel now and can't decide on where to take it--I'm sort of writing several and very frustrated about where my career is headed, as DIARY is so heavy that I don't want to follow it with a heavy book---yet I don't write very well unless I'm passionate about what I'm writing about. It's very hard to write the nice, non-offending crowd pleaser that I NEED to write right now. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3305 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I'm glad you're attempting to broaden your opportunities. I know you've 'tolerated' my harping on this. It's just I can't help believing you'll enjoy financial/spiritual benefit from changing up the pace, process and product. Because your talent/style seem a MATCH for live/visual/auditory media. And, although you write some pretty heavy duty stuff, it's also very funny/lively. I smiled/laughed throughout our my reading of "Flesh and the devil". I'm sure you'll be a smashing success.  | ||
| roXie Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
--And in reality....just because I have standards and beliefs.....does not mean that I'm not able to be friends and interact with people of a different mindset. If you notice--it's actually the opposite. Americans have the expectation that you MUST think exactly do exactly like them...otherwise, you're not a nice person. -- The story of my short life. Any way, I'd seek the independant studios or the studios of other non-american film industries (like those french studios in Senegal). I don't have any more info than you guys but I do know that I'll probably be a grandmother before hollywood changes it's bizzarro-world perpective. But that's a even bigger fight. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3324 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
roXie: "Americans have the expectation that you MUST think exactly do exactly like them...otherwise, you're not a nice person." ABM: That's not a uniquely American sentiment. Actually, Americans are less what you describe than MOST others around the world. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1431 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, it was ME and not Roxie who made this comment: "Americans have the expectation that you MUST think exactly do exactly like them...otherwise, you're not a nice person." _______ And what I meant---and stand by----is this: AMERICANS are so innundated with their own Media Conditioning...that unlike other people around the world who simply reject "outsiders" for fear of the unknown...Americans fully assume that EVERYONE is an American-----for instance, people who have a Big Screen T.V. for more than a year begin to assume that EVERYONE has a big screen t.v. Mahogany, the other day, was talking about how black people are just one big rainbow coming in many colors and talking about the book "Shades of Black"----completely (or seemingly) not realizing that MOST BLACKS around the world do not adhere to that But you have Black Americans who land in Africa all the time with the ASSUMPTION that their SYSTEM (gotten from their slave master) is the only system-----and they become EMBITTERED and refuse to respect the views of much older, freer black people who have a different system. More Examples: I've heard Black Americans in one breath down lesbianism, paganism, nudity--- ----but then claim Cleopatra, Nefertiti and Nzingah (all of whom were naked, pagan sometimes lesbians) as their heroes. They AMERICANIZE those heroes---superimposing upon them the Christian values and Victorian Rules that they themselves are raised with, so that when you appear before them in the flesh----they LOVE you as long as you already come completely thinking as they do.....but they become ANGRY when they discover that you have a whole different thinking pattern. TROY: When I, Kola Boof, arrived on the scene---and you can ask Troy Johnson about this----I was immediately bombarded with vicious VIOLENT "emails" from Black Women Writers--not readers---but actual Artists (some of this was sent to Troy Johnson for carrying my first book here). These women had never been exposed to IMAGES and "comments" made by a Black woman----such as the ones I was making. Although wearing Kente cloths over their shoulders and claiming kinship with great women like Nefertiti and Nzingha and others----they did not recognize those women in "ME" and had NEVER acknowledged the "sexual and sensual" freedom space of those FREE black women. To me---I instantly noticed a sexual hangup in Black American women that made them seem represed to me. They didn't think they were pretty in my estimation. They didn't have confidence in their sex. TO ME---they seemed to be mentally abused for CENTURIES, and were not their natural selves... .....but when I tried to express this to them as a sister, they labeled me as the "enemy"---not a FELLOW BLACK WOMAN, which is what I am----but an "enemy" who needs to get with JESUS. These women were disgusted to know that I run naked in the woods with my young sons, and that this is how the mother teaches her sons to be natural and to have access to the real God. ABM, please note---most African women writers/entertainers/public figures who come here are from Colonized Stock---ie. Miriam Makeba, Buchi Emecheta, Winnie Mandela......they are Christian and raised with the same Victorian mindset as a Black American, therefore, they are embraced WITHOUT anyone on this side realizing that they are not truly representative of the PURE AFRICA. Only in myself and Iman, both of whom are "Nilotic" have I seen a more African spirit expressed openly.....whereas Alek Wek and my friend Nyibol are very much like Americans. And from the moment you arrive---AMERICANS do not reject you for being an "outsider" like other nations around the world do-----they reject you only if you refuse to embrace the "mindset" of ASSIMILATION..... ~~Americans believe that "suicide" is a cowardly act. ***Africans and Asians believe that it takes supernatural bravery to actual kill ones self (but you better not tell Americans this). ~~~Americans believe that nudity is sexual and that naked people are looking for sex. ***African "culture" believes that nudity is the highest form of Truth and consider being naked to be "in the image of the creator". A good, healthy thing. ~~~Americans believe that anyone whose blood is touched by or rubbed up against by Blacks...is now tarnished by it...and themselves "black". ***Africans and MOST of the world believes that people....are what they MOST look like. If they look mostly white (Mariah Carey), they are WHITE----if they look mostly black (Tiger Woods), they are BLACK. If they look too inbetween to call one way or the other, they are half-caste....BUT, they CAN ALL be "African", irregardless of color. And although that makes enormous sense---and keeps dark blacks from being represented by people who don't look like or truly represent their experience; which is a terrible consequence of having Mulattos sired by Whites or Arabs----Americans become BELIGERENTLY angry when you refuse to see someone like Mariah Carey or Vin Diesel or The Rock..."AS BLACK". They take this as a personal rejection. However, notice in their daily lives, they will not embrace Alek Wek or people who look like her--the blackest of us. THey want to appoint Mariah Carey as a "Black woman" and dote on her instead. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE in ignorant, uneducated people around the world rejecting "outsiders" out of fear of the unknown...or out of JEALOUSY of the wealth of the outsider when compared, ABM with the always curious AMERICAN who usually gets right up in the foreigner's face with a quiz....and is friendly and welcoming until they REALIZE...until it HITS THEM....that the person is not AMERICAN and could be "a threat" to the WESTERN mindset. One thing AMERICANS don't trust----is sex, because this country was started on rape and is divided by race (African being devoutly SOULFUL people, which includes sex). And anyone who comes from a "sensuous culture" is viewed as wicked and amoral. Sophia Loren (who refused to live in the U.S. for this very reason) has said it. Josephine Baker has said it. Iman has said it. I am saying it. AMERICANS can only accept you on the proviso that you are "planning on" becoming AMERICAN Christian or some RELIGIOUN like them. As Nawal El Sadaawi said---"Multi-culturalism" is a MYTH. We're all forced to become Victorian White imitations over here. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 442 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Well... I'll just quote the title of this thread: "DAYAM!" Lots here to digest, Kola. I'll just comment on one thing you mentioned, about the children's book. I also have that book, and recommend it to others. I continue to be mysitified at people's insistence that there is only one way to be truly "Black." As I have said before: "Who gets to decide? Why? On what basis?" This becomes even more complicated when we start saying some people are or are not truly Black Americans. I do acknowledge that many people claim Blackness as a convenience, fad, etc. But who has the right to tell someone that they are not Black or "Black enough"? | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1433 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
But that's just IT, Yvette--- Black Americans can only decide for BLACK AMERICANS who is "black" ....and AFRICANS can only decide for Africans who is "black" The problem is....Black Americans constantly try to impose their Slave Master's system on us, whereas MOST of us are polite and accepting when you say that such and such a person is black. You say Jennifer Beales is "black"---we just smile and accept that she is on YOUR WORD, because you are our children and have been bastardized against your will...so of course, you have to live this way, it's understandable. That's the difference. And with a system that basically encourages blacks to self-destruct by teaching black children---[you can LOOK WHITE and still be considered black]------it's no wonder that so many Black American people do not value their race/culture and blindly bastardize and destroy their culture, CHOOSING whiteness because it's EASIER---because they have no value in blackness in the first place. This "rule" you understand...ENCOURAGES blacks to become whiter. On the other hand.... The European by virtue of creating the "one drop" rule has DESIGNATED their value in whiteness---which is to PROTECT their whiteness. As an African, I totally respect and agree with that. It's one of the most brilliant strategical moves in HUMAN HISTORY, and truly a shame that the Black Americans have not recognized it for what it is. Your people's death warrant. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3329 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Sorry. I mistook your words for roXie's because she didn't expressly credit them to you. No doubt Americans - White/Black - have their prejudices. Still, we are remarkably tolerant and empathetic. If we were not, it's unlikely someone who thinks/speaks as you would have a literary platform here. You may rightfully criticize our relative ignorance/reluctance in regard to our knowledge/appreciation of Africa. I wonder, though, how knowledgeable/appreciative of us would YOU be had you NOT been adopted by African Americans. Where on earth is there a more tolerant place to live than America? And why aren't you there instead? | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1434 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
I'm not denying AMERICA is tolerant, ABM. And of course you're right---Black Americans are especially tolerant of "ME", because they can sense that I am "THEIRS", which I am. I'm just talking. And that's what we have to do..in order to know each other and TRUST each other. Disagreeing doesn't preclude us from loving. I would DIE for the Black Americans before I would the Egyptians--who are my own flesh and blood. | ||
| roXie Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
--Josephine Baker has said it. -- I fell IN LOVE with ms. Baker for the reasons you stated earlier. You don't know(or maybe you do)the consequenses I suffered for being a 9 year old girl who carried pictures of a topless black woman around. Now My room is covered in her posters and no one can tell me otherwise. | ||
| roXie Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
--I would DIE for the Black Americans before I would the Egyptians--who are my own flesh and blood. -- I always say: blood is only a bodily fluid, nothing more. Family bonds transcend beyond the biological. True families will always find one another. True families will always stay together. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1436 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
I am going to stop talking about this issue of "Color gradation" ---because I genuinely love everyone here and I don't like the "pulling away" I feel when we discuss this kinda stuff. I only speak so bluntly, because I feel that we are family and can say what we really think. OK--sue me---I'm like that with everybody. LOL But still, I love everyone here and I don't like to feel that Yvette or Mahogany are "offended" just because they can't understand my kind of thinking. And you all know how much I love ABM, and I especially hate to feel at odds with him. So for the sake of argument, OK, everybody in the world is black. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3331 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, I think we understand why you feel as you do. But you gottah understand that for us AA's being Black is largely a social construct born of our need to maintain SOME sense of solidarity within a tulmultuous world. Yes, our definition of Blackness is in many respects flawed, biased and, by the vantage point of others, bizarre. But, for much of our history, its been ALL we've had. As long as we are all Black - no matter the relative gradation of such - we retain some sense of obligation/connection to a stronger collective, one that as a WHOLE has been more potent than the sum of its individual parts. And, ironically, it's that same (albiet faulty) embrace of pan-Africanism that compels to view YOU as a sister. For were we to be 'selective' about such, we might chose otherwise. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3332 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, But you do highlight a real, seeminly insolvable, dilemna: How does one emphasize the African value/beauty without (at least indirectly) diminishing non-African value/beauty? Because we want to think it possible to laud all value/beauty standards. But in truth celebrating such criteria for one can inherently be a condemnation of the another. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1439 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, I am an African. ALL BLACK PEOPLE come/came from Africa. Your embracing of "Pan-Africanism" has nothing to do with your LITERAL genetic/chromosonic Blood relation to me and to Africa. Our color and hair is the evidence of that. ** In other words, ABM---you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family. Africans and Black Americans are FAMILY---there is NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER---regardless of WHO you WANT to embrace one way or the other. I assure you that if you are "black"--then the FACES and bodies and voices of all your loved ones EXIST somewhere in Africa RIGHT NOW TODAY....your very twin....along with your great grandmother is still alive, your uncles....the PHYSICAL IMAGE of everyone that you come from is living and breathing RIGHT NOW in Africa as a real human being. This is the power of BLOOD. And this is why we call it the Bloodberry. *** And we Africans are the "BLACK" people--the origin of all others and the blackest on earth. We don't need WHITE PEOPLE'S "color" standards---out of the mouths of their former slave progeny---to dictate to US what a Black person is. I maintain that YOUR SLAVE MASTER'S RULES (which after 400 years you are used to)......are also designed to destroy you by encouraging you that you can LOOK WHITE...and merely call yourselves "black" when it suits you. Notice WHITES don't issue this bullshit to their own children. Their's must be WHITE. In many ways--you do not acknowledge the humanity of BLACK PEOPLE when claiming that Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beale are black people. Like the Whites, you spit on black people when you say this----but you're USED TO IT, because your Master raised you that way----to devalue blackness as its own entity and to Bastardize it...compulsively. PLEASE think about that. As Marita Golden pointed out in her book "Dont' Play In the Sun"---AAs do not have a "standard" (as whites do) to represent their blackness as beauty OR identity, otherwise, they would not so freely PART with their blackness--they would want to maintain it. Your AA standard is (a) WHITENESS first, (b) the Black Man's "BLACK" dick second and (C) the classic "bubble ass" of the West African woman. Our "Crown"--the nappy African hair--is not even considered. If a WHITE MAN has a 12 inch dick or a WHITE WOMAN has a bubble butt---they are immediately RISEN ABOVE any black person BY AAs standard recognizes WHITENESS "first". I come from a country where Mulattoes are the WORST most hateful enemy of the Black People. They literally encourage genocide of the blacks and align themselves with the Whites (the Arabs) and the Caucasoids----whether it's South Africa, Ethiopia, Sudan, Egypt or West Africa----the Mulattoes DO NOT consider themselves black and they are a BUFFER FACE who spit on blacks and betray their origins. Through White Supremacy, they are placed above the Authentic Blacks to carry out the bidding of the Whites. I am dropping the subject because I sincerely love you all and want to get along with you---not because I agree with you. As for "embracing" me as a sister--you really don't have a choice, because I am in your face, DARING YOU to not let me in. If you do the same to African people --you will find that they will also be forced to let you in and to love you---because you can only deny the ones who WANT to be denied. We are all the Bloodberry of the earth's first garden. You cannot deny ME. I am your MOTHER! --you don't have a fucking choice! You think that bitch in New York Harbor is your real mother? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3336 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Funny. I often feel as though we are trapped in some vicious intellectual circle. Because I maintain that beauty is a malleable value system that is based upon who has the power. Therefore, the beauty issue for Blacks will not be solved until we have more power. The King and Queen, no matter the culture, have always established the criteria for what is and isn't beautiful. | ||
| Moonsigns "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Moonsigns Post Number: 506 Registered: 07-2004 Rating: N/A |
This, indeed, is definitely a lot to digest! I think everyone who has contributed to this discussion have made some very good points. Obviously, there are many dynamics to the color and race issue in America and around the world. I understand Kola's point regarding the "slave masters system" still being imposed on Black Americans. However, America, like every other country/continent in the world, has a unique history that contributes to the social practices and beliefs of it's people. In my heart of hearts, I truly believe Biracial individuals should be allowed to express thier racial make-up/backround without others hating them for it. Obviously, because of America's history, this continues to be a sore spot--within both races. With my own children, I would think it to be liberating for them (and other Biracial people) to make other people accept them just as they are (not fully white--not fully black). However, the reality I have taught them, especially as they are growing older is that they, although being Biracial, will always have brown skin. They will never look in the mirror and see a white face....ever. I think it would be unjust to teach them otherwise--and unfortunately, I know that there are many white parents of Biracial children who are "colorblind" **coughcough** one being that famous, rich, white father who has a Biracial son who he hasn't discussed color/race with **coughcough***shameshame***. Naturally, approaching these issues is not done in a negative manner either. I firmly believe that half the battle of overcoming racism/colorism is instilling brown/black children with a super confidence that they are LOVED, intelligent and beautiful....so when they do encounter discrimnation/prejudice, they are better equipped to handle the situation (and on all levels)!!!!! When people are secure with who they are, they don't take shyt from other people!!!! With that being said, I can also relate and understand why others like Yvette and Mah believe as they do (who can really decide who is black, why, and on what basis--and that Black people are "one big rainbow"). My experiences have allowed me to see and respect all sides of this very delicate issue. Lastly, America, with all it's flaws, is still (proably) one of the best places to live in the world! | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1446 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
I completely agree with you MOONSIGNS. | ||
| Lily Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Yall a trip. I go way weeks and weeks and come back and yall got up a new thread about the same old subject. LMAO I'm yellow Kola and you ain't disinheriting me sister, so you can forget it. I IS BLACK! | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1448 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
But Lily, that is NOT what I was saying. See, this is why I can't discuss this subject, because AAs can't hear. I'm not saying that yellow women aren't black! UGH | ||
| roXie Unregistered guest Rating: N/A |
Well,*I* hear you, kola. It had the same thought from the start. When non-blacks stop running away from everything associated with african people and culture and start to embrace them instead, then colorism might start to fade out with the generations. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 561 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Mah: First...I'm just settling in after a late flight home. So apologies if I'm a bit all over the place. Kola: I am going to stop talking about this issue of "Color gradation"---because I genuinely love everyone here and I don't like the "pulling away" I feel when we discuss this kinda stuff. Mah: I can only speak for me, but it's not a pulling away. I simply disagree. What you may be sensing is my unwillingness to keep rehashing the same thing over and over. But that's not a value judgment or personal; that's just me. And in past discussions, you've chosen to disengage with me because you don't want to be at odds with me, and I respect that. But after I've replied to you at length, that leaves a lot of unanswered questions--real and rhetorical--on the table. And so, to be frank, I really don't know what the point of me responding again and again is. We tend to end up at the same place, you know? None of this, however, influences how I feel about *you*, in general, Kola. I get frustrated with loved ones all the time. ;-) And I know that cuts both ways! Plus, on this particular go 'round, I was traveling--and now 'bout to head to Florida with my girls in just over 12 hours from now!--AND got deadlines up the ass. So, I wasn't going to be too present here anyway. Kola: I only speak so bluntly, because I feel that we are family and can say what we really think. Mah: Absolutely. Hence this reply. Kola: But still, I love everyone here and I don't like to feel that Yvette or Mahogany are "offended" just because they can't understand my kind of thinking. Mah: LOL. It takes a lot to offend me, Kola. And you'd piss me off before you offended me, and you haven't even done that. Now. I won't claim to understand everything you say. But there are things I understand that you are saying that I don't, however, agree with. I think thatt's a common misconception when reasonable people disagree about any subject matter. "If only you UNDERSTOOD, you would agree with me." Not true. Kola: And you all know how much I love ABM, and I especially hate to feel at odds with him. Mah: Well, I think it's inevitable. You are very passionate and staunch in your beliefs. And that's not a bad thing. You just have to embrace the idea that people can love you and still disagree with even that with which you hold most dear. Human beings are crazy like that. Kola: So for the sake of argument, OK, everybody in the world is black. Mah: Here I will venture to speak for Yvette and ABM by saying that that is not what we are looking for you to agree to, because in fact we do not agree with that ourselves. Back to speaking for myself, I'm quite cool with agreeing to disagree. I am not writing here trying to sell you a bill of goods or change your mind. Just clarifying my own position on things. For example, by asserting that my light-skinned child is black (warning: I'm going to return to her A LOT here, in hopes of clarifying where I'm coming from), I am not simultaneously rubber-stamping colorism and the slave master's system, etc. My child is black. Should I tell her differently? Or should I just tell her that she's not "authentically" black? In another thread, it was discussed that American blacks dislike and do not embrace Africans primarily because we dislike and do not embrace blackness. But when those of among us who are not deemed "authentically" black still persist in calling ourselves black, then we're damned if we don't, damned if we do. What should I tell my light-skinned child? That she is black, yes. About what our people looked like when they were brought here on slave ships, yes. And all the reasons WHY black people--people who CHOOSE willingly to identify black--are a "rainbow" of skin tones now, yes. Kola: And we Africans are the "BLACK" people--the origin of all others and the blackest on earth. We don't need WHITE PEOPLE'S "color" standards---out of the mouths of their former slave progeny---to dictate to US what a Black person is. Mah: And who is dictating this? Me, by telling my light-skinned child that is she black? Who gets to determine whether she is black or not? And if they decide she's not, then what should she do? I keep coming back to her because all political, social, and cultural rhetoric is merely that if it falls apart under scrutiny at the personal level. We could not argue colorism without the real experiences of black people who are devastated by it. Similarly, if we have an "authentically" black standard that is essentially meaningless when someone tries to measure themselves against it, then what is the point? Let me stand next to this standard. Am I black? What makes me so? It is one thing to say that dark skin and African people are devalued. It's quite another to say that calling someone who is not 100% African "black" somehow devalues blackness and the African. This is the leap I feel that you are making, Kola. I can call myself, both of my childen, and everyone I'm blood-related to "black"--and we do represent a "rainbow" of skin colors. Now: at what point is this colorism, white supremacy, or devaluing blackness or the African? Are we not black? Some of us? All of us? What should we call ourselves instead? Can't we identify "black", all of us, and ALSO decry colorism, white supremacy, and the devaluation of blackness? Better yet, for the conscious and forward-thinking among us, how can we not? Kola: I maintain that YOUR SLAVE MASTER'S RULES (which after 400 years you are used to)......are also designed to destroy you by encouraging you that you can LOOK WHITE...and merely call yourselves "black" when it suits you. Mah: Last 4 words are key: "when it suits you." You are making blanket accusations--not to mention gross generalizations--which, once again, don't withstand the scrutiny of the real experience of individual people. Some people play fast and loose with their blackness, others don't. In fact, if I *didn't* tell my light-skinned child from day one that she was black, she would be FAR more likely to not claim blackness, or to claim it only when it suited her. So what gives? Kola: Notice WHITES don't issue this bullshit to their own children. Their's must be WHITE. Mah: And for those of us who do not have and will never have very dark-skinned offspring--what do you recommend? What should we call ourselves? What's the alternative? Kola: In many ways--you do not acknowledge the humanity of BLACK PEOPLE when claiming that Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beale are black people. Like the Whites, you spit on black people when you say this----but you're USED TO IT, because your Master raised you that way----to devalue blackness as its own entity and to Bastardize it...compulsively.** Mah: So, they are white? And again, what should I tell my daughter who looks more like Jennifer Beale's than she does me? That's she's white? Kola: PLEASE think about that. Mah: PLEASE don't assume that disagreement with you presumes lack of thought or information on the part of those who disagree with you. And, will you give others' thoughts and observations an equal measure of thought? Maybe, maybe not--but if you do, it's highly likely that you still won't agree. Works both ways. Kola: Your AA standard is (a) WHITENESS first, (b) the Black Man's "BLACK" dick second and (C) the classic "bubble ass" of the West African woman. Mah: And here is one of those moments where what you might think is me pulling away is simply me disagreeing and more inclined to not respond because the above is not MY standard. So when we are discussing our children and our personal lives and practices, gross macro-level generalizations such as the above are conversation stoppers, as far as my participation goes, because I figure you're not talking to me. I'll leave the rebuttal to someone who actually thinks that way. Kola: Our "Crown"--the nappy African hair--is not even considered. Mah: In my house it is. And my daughter whose hair is not nappy will never be told by me that she has "good" hair. And she will be armed, as soon as she has the language, with a harsh rebuke for anyone, stranger or family, who tells her that. Kola: If a WHITE MAN has a 12 inch dick or a WHITE WOMAN has a bubble butt---they are immediately RISEN ABOVE any black person BY AAs standard recognizes WHITENESS "first". Mah: As for me and my house... I hope you're beginning to understand my silence at these times. It makes no sense for me to keep harping on about what I do or my friends do or my family members do which contradicts that VERY REAL dynamics you describe and decry. Problem is, you're painting us all with that very broad brush. What exactly can we say, when we're trying to have a discussion on a personal level? "You're right, Kola"--because in many regards you are, with your observations. But...you're wrong about me. And Yvette. And ABM and Destined. What is the point of repeating that ad nauseum when we are talking on a personal level, which is what I thought we were doing? Kola: I come from a country where Mulattoes are the WORST most hateful enemy of the Black People. They literally encourage genocide of the blacks and align themselves with the Whites (the Arabs) and the Caucasoids----whether it's South Africa, Ethiopia, Sudan, Egypt or West Africa----the Mulattoes DO NOT consider themselves black and they are a BUFFER FACE who spit on blacks and betray their origins. Through White Supremacy, they are placed above the Authentic Blacks to carry out the bidding of the Whites. Mah: I know. And so you assume that mulattoes here are ALL the same way? Of course, not. So...now what? ABM wrote: Because I maintain that beauty is a malleable value system that is based upon who has the power. Therefore, the beauty issue for Blacks will not be solved until we have more power. Mah: The beauty issue AS DICTATED BY HOLLYWOOD and MADISON AVENUE won't be resolved until then. But in some of our hearts and minds, black is beautiful right now. Alex Wek is beautiful, today. We aren't all brainwashed. None of us can afford to be asleep at the wheel, but some of us are driving just fine. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1466 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Mahogany If your daughter looks like Jennifer Beales---then she is not black or white, she is MIXED, and that's a biological fact. But let's pretend she was my daughter....and I was raising her with my two black sons IN AMERICA, then I would tell her that she's "black" and raise her that way---but we would (ALL) also discuss the fact that she's MIXED and "celebrate" that fact, as it's who she is. She is not just BLACK. THIS...is the POINT I was making to Lily about you guys not listening. Because I am not telling you that you shouldn't raise your child as "black". LIVING IN AMERICA, (AS I STATED), I can certainly understand why you would. STILL....the fact is, I get sick of turning on the t.v. and there's a "Black Women's Discussion Panel"---and they're all a bunch of mixed women. Usually Julianne Malveaux and Tricia Rose and Johnetta B. Coleman. Not a "BLACK" woman in the bunch. But 85% of the black women at home watching are Brown to Black in color. It's pure racist colorism. A dark black man is CONSTANTLY shown---but the female has to be YELLOW or MIXED or BROWN with white features...in other words, the womb that brings us into the world is DILUTED...which in turn, over decades, dilutes US. And that's what I'm complaining about. Is this constant REPRESENTATION of black women...by anything BUT a black woman. Everywhere you turn, there's some mixed woman being presented as a BLACK WOMAN---and then the Authentic Black Woman is not allowed to be seen AT ALL. AND YES----if VIN DIESEL can be called black, then WHY CAN'T he be called white? He's obviously more WHITE than black. Ditto Mariah Carey. If Mariah Carey were my daughter, I would raise her as what she is---WHITE. Why do they have to dump these people off in our group??? They both have enough WHITE BLOOD to qualify as White. But because of "RACISM", anything touched by African blood is automatically dumped in the black group as though black people are just 3/5ths of a Human Being in the first place. ___________ NEXT, I definitely stand by this comment and I'll tell you WHY: And we Africans are the "BLACK" people--the origin of all others and the blackest on earth. We don't need WHITE PEOPLE'S "color" standards---out of the mouths of their former slave progeny---to dictate to US what a Black person is. ______________ How many times do we have to hear a high yellow girl talk about how she's "Part Cherokee, Part Irish, Part blah, blah" BUT then she gets mad when we say that she isn't AUTHENTICALLY BLACK. In typical "Selfishness"---they want to have it both ways. They're not only Authentically Black, but they're part Irish, part Indian, etc. Just imagine Jasmine Guy spouting this crap after she's just talked about being part Jewish and part Indian. It's BULLSHIT. There IS such a thing as Authentic Black People (the BLACK, the nappy)---and those who enjoy rattling off all their MIXTURES or barking about "they're Indian" need to acknowledge the fact that being MIXED means you are not FULLY BLACK. While Kola Boof may be "black" in color----Alek Wek is more AUTHENTIC. Meaning "Pure". And since there is a real chance that there won't be great numbers of "black" Americans 200 years from now........the BLACK people left on earth will dictate who is really black. And quite tragically---human family groups become separated when they don't look alike. But because the Americans have this sickening "idealism" about RACE, they ignore the history of the world. The day will come when the Authentic Blacks will have to turn away from the Mixed Groups just to exist as themselves----------and this will occur MAINLY-----because they will realize that 90% of the Mixing is a result of the HATRED for their blackness. Yet we're expected to celebrate this "rainbow" that wipes out our ancestors and is created out of HATE for our black skin. RAINBOWS have several colors---but "black" is not one of them. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1467 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Mahogany, I've never said that you and all your family members shouldn't call yourselves Black....or that you shouldn't call your daughter black to bond with her. I simply stated the fact that NOT EVERYONE "around the world" accepts the notion that Black People are some multi-color group that is a "rainbow". I do not. And although I have many family members who are so light that they could almost be white----I don't love them any less just because I don't consider them "black". My "favorite" brother looks white----I "call" him black-------but I don't see him as black, I see him as WHITE. I only call him "black", because this is America--and plus, he wants to be seen as black, so I do it, because I love him. And I have several mixed relatives that I adore ---I'm just saying that "I" don't see them as black. And people LIKE ME do exist. I see them as "MIXED". I have one cousin--to me she's a "Mexican". ________ BACK IN AFRICA --many Dinka and Nuer will see me as "Arab" and not black until I reveal my mother was Oromo. Of course, people in AFRICA are "much" blacker than people over here. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3355 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Mah: The beauty issue AS DICTATED BY HOLLYWOOD and MADISON AVENUE won't be resolved until then. But in some of our hearts and minds, black is beautiful right now. Alex Wek is beautiful, today. We aren't all brainwashed. None of us can afford to be asleep at the wheel, but some of us are driving just fine. ABM: Perhaps. But, honestly, whom do you think MOST Black women would prefer to look like and whom MOST Black men would prefer to have: Mariah Carey & Alicia Keyes or India Arie & Alek Wekk? HONESTLY, now. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 562 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Mah: The beauty issue AS DICTATED BY HOLLYWOOD and MADISON AVENUE won't be resolved until then. But in some of our hearts and minds, black is beautiful right now. Alex Wek is beautiful, today. We aren't all brainwashed. None of us can afford to be asleep at the wheel, but some of us are driving just fine. ABM: Perhaps. But, honestly, whom do you think MOST Black women would prefer to look like and whom MOST Black men would prefer to have: Mariah Carey & Alicia Keyes or India Arie & Alek Wekk? HONESTLY, now. Mah: Oh, I'm not disagreeing with the rampant colorism, what most prefer. My point was not that the colorism issue doesn't exist, nor am I trying to minimize it. I'm saying that we don't have to wait to be appreciated and preferred by others or by the mainstream before we ourselves live out and celebrate those preferences. If we are going to wait around for Hollywood and Madison Avenue to get it right, what's the point of teaching our kids a better way? | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 563 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola: If your daughter looks like Jennifer Beales---then she is not black or white, she is MIXED, and that's a biological fact. Mah: Her biological parents are black, light-skinned. Same for their parents. She's mixed like most black people are "mixed." She doesn't have one white biological parent and one black. Kola: But let's pretend she was my daughter....and I was raising her with my two black sons IN AMERICA, then I would tell her that she's "black" and raise her that way---but we would (ALL) also discuss the fact that she's MIXED and "celebrate" that fact, as it's who she is. She is not just BLACK. THIS...is the POINT I was making to Lily about you guys not listening. Mah: No, this is you making incorrect assumptions. And before you assume that people are not listening, consider instead that what you are saying simply may ring false or illogical. You can be heard just fine; doesn't mean the listener will agree. Kola: Yet we're expected to celebrate this "rainbow" that wipes out our ancestors and is created out of HATE for our black skin. Mah: Again, a leap. Acknowledging is NOT celebrating. That's where you and I part company. Being descriptive is not being prescriptive or hierarchical. It happens, yes, A LOT, but that doesn't mean that they are then one and the same. It's not that folks aren't listening, Kola. It's that not everyone takes that leap. Kola: RAINBOWS have several colors---but "black" is not one of them. Mah: Now you are arguing semantics. With a child, no less. A child looks around and sees many skin tones and compares it to a rainbow. It's not a celebration; it's an observation. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 564 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola: I simply stated the fact that NOT EVERYONE "around the world" accepts the notion that Black People are some multi-color group that is a "rainbow". Mah: While the above is true about what folks accept and don't accept, what is *not* true is that that is *simply* what you stated. You stated a whole bunch of other stuff, including things like: Your AA standard is (a) WHITENESS first, (b) the Black Man's "BLACK" dick second and (C) the classic "bubble ass" of the West African woman. That's a whole 'nother level of discourse. You reacted to what I wrote about my daughter's "rainbow" understanding of blackness. You know what? She's 6 1/2, and just beginning to understand such things. We've got a long way to go. However, I realize that you were spring boarding from the personal to the global, which is cool, and I was content to not respond. I had nothing to add. No new issues were raised. But when you commented on my seeming to pull away, I responded. And while I really loathe saying "Not me!" over and over again, I'm not sure what else to say in situations like this. And my daughter's rainbow has nothing to do with bubble butts or big dicks. Not today at least. As she gets older, we'll graduate to such delightful topics. | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 449 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
you do not acknowledge the humanity of BLACK PEOPLE when claiming that Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beale are black people I acknowledge the humanity of Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beale when I do not impose my standards of identity on their lives and experience. Kola, you do not have to drop this subject at all. I have battled all of my life with other Blacks who would presume to deny me my humanity, my blackness based on how I look, or how I speak, or that I read, or how I wear my hair, or who I am friends with, or what music I listen to... At my age, I am through with such nonsense. I will not "prove" my love for Blacks, Blackness, Africa, Africans by rejecting any part of my experience--and I don't expect any other self-identified "Black" person to have to do the same. I suggest again, Kola, that you are not talking here to the people who need talking to about these issues that you are so (rightly) passionate about. I suggest again that you go on some of the web boards of Blacks in search of non-Blacks for relationships, sex, marriage, etc. Post some of your photos there of beautiful African women (and men as the case may be). Start the cyber "Drop Squad" right now... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3357 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Mah, I concur we should not wait for Hollywood/Madison Avenue tell us what is/isn’t beautiful. However, our problems in this regard began long before either of those existed. Kola, I think you misunderstand the point of much of what I have to say about these issues. I’m probably more in agreement with you than the others. Perhaps, though, it appears otherwise because I often attempt to broaden the discussion to include some basis point from which solutions might be derived. For instance, I often think the dilemma of what you advocate lies in how do you bring Black people together via placing such emphasizes on our differences? Isn’t much of why Africa is mired in obsolescence and squalor is it’s inured in such rampant tribalism? I’ll agree we AA’s are in a state of coloristic denial that continually defies our ability to reconcile. Yes, we are, as you allude to, sanctioning our own whitening. And we refuse to recognize/acknowledge the dire consequences of such. | ||
| Mahoganyanais "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mahoganyanais Post Number: 565 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM: I concur we should not wait for Hollywood/Madison Avenue tell us what is/isn�t beautiful. However, our problems in this regard began long before either of those existed. Mah: Indeed. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1468 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
This comment, more than any other, I would like to stand by: you do not acknowledge the humanity of BLACK PEOPLE when claiming that Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beale are black people BECAUSE: The fact is.....no matter how you continually DENY it.... Black Americans (and to some degree South Africans) see "Black People" with the same eyes that WHITES see black people-----not as whole, already perfect beings----but as some kind of "backwards" stock with the liability of black skin and wooly hair. Otherwise, you would not (without a 2nd thought) be able to just assign anybody to their group----all the while casting invisible those who are most authentically BLACK. YOU WOULD NOT. I don't care what you call nonsense, what you claim to stand for--whatever. You would not cavalierly identify any and everyone with 1 drop of black blood....as "Black"....if you had any knowledge of a what a BLACK HUMAN BEING IS to begin with. Black people ARE NOT 3/5ths of Human Beings as you all seem to be saying. The people in the movie "ROOTS", with all their shades---THOSE were BLACK people. Cicely Tyson is a BLACK woman. Lena Horne had 2 lightskinned black parents---it doesn't change the fact that she is MIXED RACE, because both her parents were so mixed. She does not have AFRICAN HAIR, her skin without makeup was banana-ivory and her features have "tribes" that are clearly not African. DITTO Jennifer Beales. Those are NOT "black" women. And I don't care what you say----Vin Diesel is not a BLACK MAN, Mariah Carey is a not a BLACK WOMAN, The Rock is not a BLACK MAN----those people are MIXED RACE or WHITE. Black People are not so inhuman that just ANYBODY can be us. Can Cicely Tyson take her one drop of White Blood and be featured on a magazine cover as the "Dark skinned White Actress"? No, because only "blackness" is to be corrupted and defiled and disrespected. SO, Yvette, YOU DEFINITELY "erase the worth" of BLACK people when you say that Vin Diesel and Mariah Carey are "Black" people. You wouldn't even think about labeling those people WHITE---which is the PROOF of what I'm saying. **That's the last I'll say on this subject---because like so many Africans (not all, but most of us)....I feel so insulted and enraged when BLACKS are not allowed to represent themselves....but are constantly represented by MIXED/High Yellow people who don't even appreciate what "Blackness" is. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1472 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Another reality--- is that Blacks seem to think it's a SIN to be "mixed" they act like you can only love Vin Diesel if we cover his white flesh with a band-aid that has "BLACK" written across it. Why can't we love mixed people for who they are and not impose blackness on them? | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3365 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Again. We've been trained to view being Black as a politic, not just a color. We include Vin, Mariah, Jennifer within our number in part because we believe it makes our collective stronger. To paraphrase Mah, I'm be "descriptive" here, not "prescriptive". So don't bite into my @$$ (at least not for what I say here...Hehe!). | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 454 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
You wouldn't even think about labeling those people WHITE KOLA I AM NOT SAYING I AM CALLING THEM BLACK: I AM SAYING I HAVE NO RIGHT TO DENY THEM THIS SELF-IDENTITY IF THIS IS SOMETHING THEY HAVE SO CHOSEN BASED ON THEIR EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY. If they want to choose to be "White" then that's OK by me, too. Go ahead, Sister. You have yet to tell me when we will begin our campaign with those who are actively attempting to "erase their Blackness." | ||
| Yvettep "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yvettep Post Number: 455 Registered: 01-2005 Rating: N/A |
Why can't we love mixed people for who they are and not impose blackness on them? For Americans, then, how much "Black blood" is "Black enough"? We have the DNA technology now, so let's get with it. But I warn you: There likely are not many "pure," 100% Black people in this country. So that means we'd all be "mixed," right? And should be loved for that? OR.... Some of us would be exempted from this "one drop of White blood makes you 'mixed'" rule because we "look" more Black or "act" more Black or otherwise pass some "Black test' that someone (who?) gives... And we're right back where we started... | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1473 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Kola, We include Vin, Mariah, Jennifer within our number in part because we believe it makes our collective stronger. ------- NO, ABM...it makes your collective WEAKER. Have you ever "READ" the things that Vin Diesel has to say about life? Jean Toomer was right. And also because all the doting and self-esteem is projected onto those people while the MASSES wither in obscure invisibility. It also weakens you, because they have a DIFFERENT experience being in a white skin, and MANY TIMES, they relate with the ideals of their White compatriots more than "us"---I've read much of what Jennifer Beales and Vin Diesel have to say about life and politics---and they're not FOR black people. So you weaken our collective by bringing these Non-Blacks. And MAHOGANY, you forget that there's a VERY REAL POSSIBILITY that your mixed daughter will someday be my daughter-in-law....so you may as well get her ready for that bitch Kola. I'm dead serious. I honestly believe that AAs see my views as some kind of "rejection", "exclusion"---which is not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is standing up for the humanity and worth of BLACK people and I'm demanding that they not continue to be made invisible by OTHERS standing in their place all the time. I personally do not want to be represented by Mariah Carey--because she's not black enough. Vanessa Williams, however, I can see myself in. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3369 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, You may be right. Again. I only said that because that partly explains why they're viewed as being Black. I agree that perhaps by embracing them as Black we obfuscate/erode the acknowledgement and appreciation of our own Blackness. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3370 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, Funny. I can "see myself in" either Mariah or Vanessa on a pretty equivalent basis. THAT's one of the great things about being a Black man. ;) | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1477 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yeah, and I would love to fuck the shit out of Vin Diesel and The Rock, too, ABM. I'm dead serious about that. I've had all kinds of fantasies about sucking Vin Diesel's big white dick. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3372 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, See. Just like a sistah. Always Jell-O Brand Gelatin on a brothah. | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1485 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: |
In a review of Alex Haley's novel Roots James Baldwin stated that "the black people of this country bear a mighty responsibility--which, odd as it may sound, is nothing new--and face an immediate future as devastating, though in a different way, as the past which has led us here: I am speaking of the beginning of the end of the black diaspora, which mean that I am speaking of the beginning of the end of the world as we have suffered it until now" (The New York Times, September 26, 1976). | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3387 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kola, What Jimmy B talkin' 'bout? A future without Cable? | ||
| Kola Moderator Username: Kola Post Number: 1487 Registered: 02-2005 Rating: N/A |
I agree with James Baldwin's prophecy. The Black Diaspora is in grave danger because black people's inability to Strategize Racially as all other groups do. Only blacks are bowing and jigging about "One Love", no color lines, we're all just brothers and sisters. Things a nigger would say, because they don't stand for anything and they're the ones who have NOTHING they hold sacred to begin with, so they want to borrow everybody else's identity. Which leads to their own destruction. The 1 drop plantation rule was invented for that very reason. To persuade blacks that they don't NEED to be black and give birth to it---when they can simply be White and be CALLED black. Baldwin made those comments in the other post during his review of "ROOTS". I agree 100% Because we have internalized WHITE VISION towards Blackness---we are literally facing the end the Black Diaspora itself. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3389 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oh... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3390 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Though...those are interesting words coming from a person's whose sexual proclivities disabled his personally perpetualing the kind of Blackness we presume he desired. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 3391 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Do as I say, not WHOM I do? |
