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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1320
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 06:14 pm: | 
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On the few occasions that I've written on the board about the atrocities taking place in my homeland---the SUDAN---there was almost always no response, and in general amongst African Americans that I have spoken with, there is little caring for what is happening over there.
Today, someone wrote me a letter asking why I wasn't writing about the recent reports of MASS RAPE in Sudan.....and the main reason was....(1) I don't believe that anyone here would care and (2) It's excruciatingly painful for me to get inside that world at times, especially now that I have felt so much betrayal by both the media and the SPLA.
But one of my new heroes, Nicholas St. Kristoff at the NEW YORK TIMES has written an article that really deserves your attention.
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"A Policy of Rape"
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: June 5, 2005
NYALA, Sudan
All countries have rapes, of course. But here in the refugee shantytowns of Darfur, the horrific stories that young women whisper are not of random criminality but of a systematic campaign of rape to terrorize civilians and drive them from "Arab lands" - a policy of rape.
One measure of the international community's hypocrisy is that the world is barely bothering to protest. More than two years after the genocide in Darfur began, the women of Kalma Camp - a teeming squatter's camp of 110,000 people driven from their burned villages - still face the risk of gang rape every single day as they go out looking for firewood.
Nemat, a 21-year-old, told me that she left the camp with three friends to get firewood to cook with. In the early afternoon a group of men in uniforms caught and gang-raped her.
"They said, 'You are black people. We want to wipe you out,' " Nemat recalled. After the attack, Nemat was too injured to walk, but her relatives found her and carried her back to camp on a donkey.
A neighbor, Toma, 34, said she heard similar comments from seven men in police uniforms who raped her. "They said, 'We want to finish you people off,' " she recalled.
Sometimes the women simply vanish. A young mother named Asha cried as she told how she and her four sisters were chased down by a Janjaweed militia; she escaped but all her sisters were caught.
"To this day, I don't know if they are alive or dead," she sobbed. Then she acknowledged that she had another reason for grief: a Janjaweed militia had also murdered her husband 23 days earlier.
Gang rape is terrifying anywhere, but particularly so here. Women who are raped here are often ostracized for life, even forced to build their own huts and live by themselves. In addition, most girls in Darfur undergo an extreme form of genital cutting called infibulation that often ends with a midwife stitching the vagina shut with a thread made of wild thorns. This stitching and the scar tissue make sexual assault a particularly violent act, and the resulting injuries increase the risk of H.I.V. transmission.
Sudan has refused to allow aid groups to bring into Darfur more rape kits that include medication that reduces the risk of infection from H.I.V.
The government has also imprisoned rape victims who became pregnant, for adultery. Even those who simply seek medical help are harassed and humiliated.
On March 26, a 17-year-old student named Hawa went to a French-run clinic in Kalma and reported that she had been raped. A French midwife examined her and confirmed that she was bleeding and had been raped.
But an informer in the clinic alerted the police, who barged in and - over the determined protests of two Frenchwomen - carried Hawa off to a police hospital, where she was chained to a cot by one leg and one arm. A doctor there declared that she had not been raped after all, and Hawa was then imprisoned for a couple of days. The authorities are now proposing that she be charged with submitting false information.
The attacks are sometimes purely about humiliation. Some women are raped with sticks that tear apart their insides, leaving them constantly trickling urine. One Sudanese woman working for a European aid organization was raped with a bayonet.
Doctors Without Borders issued an excellent report in March noting that it alone treated almost 500 rapes in a four-and-a-half-month period. Sudan finally reacted to the report a few days ago - by arresting an Englishman and a Dutchman working for Doctors Without Borders.
Those women who spoke to me risked arrest and lifelong shame by telling their stories. Their courage should be an inspiration to us - and above all, to President Bush - to speak out. Mr. Bush finally let the word Darfur pass his lips on Wednesday, after 142 days of silence, but only during a photo op. Such silence amounts to acquiescence, for this policy of rape flourishes only because it is ignored.
I'm still chilled by the matter-of-fact explanation I received as to why it is women who collect firewood, even though they're the ones who are raped. The reason is an indication of how utterly we are failing the people of Darfur, two years into the first genocide of the 21st century.
"It's simple," one woman here explained. "When the men go out, they're killed. The women are only raped."
E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 114
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 07:32 pm: |
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I dont know what to say. This is so sad.
LiLi |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1321
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
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Hi Lili.
I know your prayers are with us.
And I feel so frustrated that I'm actually in America---and yet my hands are tied.
I can do a LOT for Sudan's Rebel army...but NOTHING for the women of Sudan, and that kills me.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3239
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Kola,
Funny,
I had momentarily intended to create a thread about the Darfur rapes using Kristof's NYT article you posted above. However, I didn't post it for the very reason you mentioned above: "It's excruciatingly painful for [YOU] to get inside that world..."
I've sent a couple of letters/email to the White House and my US Senator/Representative to support your cause. I think, though, we AA's feel flummoxed by what to do to effectively address the problem.
Maybe if more smart, persuasive people like you who were born and/bred in the Sudan step forward in defense of their homeland, more of us will rally in support of you. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1326
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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ABM
THANK YOU.
And I've done more than my share of stepping forward.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3245
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:12 pm: |
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Kola,
I agree. When there are as few as a 100 East Africans who are rep'ing for those sistahs the way you have, this thing will turn for the better.
I'll continue to look for opportunities to help rescue your sisters back home. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1333
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:13 pm: |
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I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, ABM.
I REALLY DO.
I'm just on my period today and being a PAIN and a monster.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3247
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:21 pm: |
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Thanks!
Hey. The period thing I get.
Got 2 here who receive regular visits from Aunt Flo' and a third who's only about 2 - 3 years away.
It's actually kinda funny to witness the Dr. Jeckle, Mr Hide transformations you all experience. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1337
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:48 pm: |
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ABM:
I'll continue to look for opportunities to help rescue your sisters back home.
KOLA:
But the thing is, ABM...these are also YOUR SISTERS back home.
These women LOOK like the West African women that you came from 400 years ago.
I'm always amazed that Black Americans don't look into the faces of these dark women and SEE that in some ways...they've killed their own mother....their real mother.
This is what the Black Americans LOOKED LIKE when they first came here.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3251
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:01 am: |
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Kola,
You're right. They've our sisters too. And maybe when we believe/feel that, we'll do more to help them. |
Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 543
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:31 am: |
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It's ironic that you raised this today, Kola. I was just at my older daughter's school today (It was Moving Up Day--my BABY is going to first grade!), walking through the halls and I noticed a poster about the Darfur rapes on a bulletin board. I was surprised, in general, but then I realized that I was in the middle school wing--and I thought, "Good. They need to know these things, hard as it may be to face."
But thank you, Kola and ABM, for reminding me that I need to ACT and not just nod my head. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:14 am: |
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Congratulations on your BABY moving up!!
I know how proud you must be.
My boys BOTH got all "A's" in school this year and I'm so blessed that they're more MATURE and more educated than I am.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 406
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:43 am: |
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This is very disturbing. There is a large Somali immigrant population here in the Twin Cities--I'm inspired to "look locally" for ways to start helping.
I'm not trying to "cop out" (well, maybe I am), but I have felt a little burned by past attempts at forging relationships and alliances with immigrant Africans here in the US. I really feel that "cross cultural" efforts--formal, intense ones--should be started in cities like mine. Maybe groups (e.g., churches, NAACP, Black radio, "mainstream" social services organizations, whatever) don't think about this because the assumption is that "oh well, we're/they're all 'black' so what's the big deal" but the differences are just vast and need sustained effort to overcome biases on both sides. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 407
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:45 am: |
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I did not mean by the above to imply that the Somali (and Ethiopians, another big immigrant group here) are the same as the Sudanese. Just that stories like this make me recognize--and feel guilty about--alliances with my African brothers and sisters right in my own back yard that I choose not to form. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3252
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:58 am: |
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Mah,
You're welcome.
'Vette,
You make an EXCELLENT point. It does take A LOT more than similar skintones for people to come together. Especially when they've been born/raised in environs/cultures +12,000 miles apart. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1344
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 02:51 am: |
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Yeah, but that's only because you don't WANT to know them, ABM.
Ethiopians I could understand people shying away from, because I know that culture, and they're not (generally) welcoming type people---but the most Clanish of all Africans.
But the rest, it doesn't make sense.
You've come to know ME very well....I am very complicated and snobbish and racial, but still, you KNOW ME and IDENTIFY with me...
...and they're just like Black Americans, just as I am, which is exactly the thing you FEAR....the "likeness" and what that could lead to and mean.
AND...at the bottom of the well is the fact that your most important connection should always be with the WEST AFRICANS.....far moreso than Somalis and other eastern/northerners---because the West Africans are MAINLY your blood, tribal lineage and it's QUITE APPARENT by just looking at your faces and "ways".
I've seen "snobby" Africans who look down on Black Americans, yes.
But I still SAY that the major obstacle is the fact that Black Americans's FEAR of "blackness" is what creates...a List of Excuses...for why they can't get along with and come to know African people. They really don't want to, because they don't want to GO BACK.
That's how they see it. They see other races as "forward" and US as "backwards".
Like Troy Johnson used to always tell me that I'm the "past". But NO---I'm here in America, with my own board on HIS web site, ancient titties still out, only on books now.....I'm the FUTURE.
I am.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3254
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:14 am: |
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Kola,
That's a sword you're swinging that cuts both ways.
I've witness Africans use AA's desire to form relations with them and our homeland to our disadvantage.
A couple years ago, my wife attempted to establish a business deal with a Liberian woman.
It was AWFUL!
She LIED about everything. Tried to use our desire to form an earnest business/personal relationships with AFRICANS to manipulate us financially. And she even had the audacity to refer to African Americans as being essentially a "lost" or "homeless" people.
All that after we offer free room/board to her and her bad@$$ CHILD during her visit! And we even introduced her to our extend family, friends and business associates.
And I've had similar difficulties establishing relationships with other Africans as well.
Now. I don't presume all Africans to be arrogant, ethnocentrist shysters. But there sure appear to be A LOT of 'em.
This lack of respect/regard between Africans and AA'S is mutual and ponderous. And it won't be alleviated until we all assume part of the heavy lifting. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 408
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
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Kola, I have certainly witnessed some of what you say about African Americans. I've heard us say things like "They smell bad/don't believe in bathing"; "They always speaking that jibber jabber"; "They too dark"; "They eat funny foods": "They come here, sleep 10 to a house, and take all our jobs", etc etc.
Except for the smell part and the dark part, most of the stuff seems to be not about fear of our own African-ness, than with common anti-immigration/anti "other" sentiment--with a twist because of the diasporic link.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
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The MAIN THING that AAs have always said is----"I Ain't no African".
Which is like a pill that when crushed open contains a gazillion hidden excuses and recriminations, per ABMs last post.
And if there are a LOT of "arrogant" African "ethnocentrist shysters" ABM--then imagine the fact that there are TWICE as many AA ones. My honest opinion is that you just don't know any Africans.
Somehow...you AAs have no problem bonding with people from CHINA and FRANCE and PUERTO RICO and THE LATINO DIASPORA and especially anywhere in EUROPE......but somehow, ALL "Black" people you encounter are evil, distrustful, dirty and unworthy.
I think about Nyibol and her sister being chased from school down in Texas by Black American children who wanted to know---"Why are you SO BLACK?" and "Why don't you have any hair?"......I think of the Nigerian field worker who was taunted by passing carloads of AAs calling out, "Hey, Monkey Man!"..............and I think of Paul Beatty's novels where his black male characters take pride is carousing with immigrant KOREAN "old women" who own businesses, calling them "Mama", knowing full well how they AVOID and PRE-JUDGE the "old West African" women and not looking them in the eye as they pass them on the street. Of course, when a Black American comes across an Ethiopian (only the mixed race Ethiopians can afford to come to America)---THEN they want to relate.
Black Americans, in many ways, are like their White Slaveowners----but seem to have no notice of it.
And I maintain Yvette that the "FEAR" is the fear of what we have in "common" and the fear of being TRULY BLACK................again.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1348
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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The bottom line is that Africans and blacks of the Carribean and Black Americans.....
.....are shockingly ALIKE
But perhaps I only know this from living so intimately with all the different types for YEARS each.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:34 pm: |
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Then Kola, we truly need sustained formal efforts to get all us Africans together. I have been able to forge friendships with a handful of Africans. But these have mostly been other graduate students, faculty, and others who are similar to me in terms of activities, class and education level.
(Now, my sister, on the other hand, has many many African friends and pretty much exclusively dates African and Carribean men. Partly this is because she went to school in Miami, so formed personal relationships with folks. Partly because her ex-husband is Jamaican. And partly because, as a larger woman, she has found African men to be more appreciative of her beautiful full body than Black American men.)
I do not think that the kind of brotherly and sisterly love based on similarities that you may want to see will ever happen on its own.
Here in the Twin Cities, it is the African immigrants who see many Black Americans as something they are NOT striving to be like--the hip hop music and culture, accepting welfare, "secular values," poor educational achievement, etc. I think there is a lot of hurt when an African American is rejected and stigmatized based on race--by folks who look like us!
I have not bonded with folks from China, Latin America, etc--except, generally, under the same conditions that I have bonded with some Africans. I think that fear of blackness or African-ness, or whatever is part of the issue, but not all. I think there is a strong, largely unexamined xenophobia in many Black American communities--one that is magnified by our feelings of entitlement as a result of our history in this country. I think a huge resentment is the idea that these "new" Blacks have come here, "skipped" several steps, benefit from the battles we fought, then don' even want to acknowledge us.
And I think that another interesting and also largely unexplored phenomenon may be a kind of "survivor's guilt." Especially with sad stories like the one you posted about here, there may be a kind of cognitive dissonance at work to draw boundaries around us "fortunates" who "escaped" (albeit, by force) the dire conditions now impacting so many of our distant kinsfolk.
I think, speaking for myself, I have experienced the latter. And I say this produces dissonance because I do not "like" slavery or feel 'fortunate" to have descended from folks who were enslaved. But at the same time, I often worry what would have been my fate--if I managed to be here at all--had I descended from folks who were able to escape the grasp of the enslavers...
It's very very complex. And it doesn't help that we can be effectively played off against each other.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Yvette said:
And partly because, as a larger woman, she has found African men to be more appreciative of her beautiful full body than Black American men.)
KOLA:
Notice how this is something that Large-sized White women often say about Black American men.
So obviously, it's the COLOR.
How tragic.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1351
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:08 pm: |
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Growing up in both Africa and America, Yvette---I cannot understand the idea of "survivors" guilt, because the true fact is.......Black Americans are being destroyed and tortured in a whole other way (I agree with Derrick Bell that there is a GENOCIDE taking place in the U.S. as well against the "black people").......I don't feel that Black Americans HAVE SURVIVED, but have been forced to become something else---TO ME, the more I see you "mixed", the more DEFEATED I see you..........and the tragic Africa that is portrayed in the media is truly not representative of the whole picture and blown completely out of proportion-----the story is basically "See how horrible it is over there---be happy that we white people rescued you". SUDAN, unfortunately, is the worst place on earth to live in, because of its geographical location---the place where LIGHT meets DARK and the ancient ON-going battle between the two.
But Africa as a continent has more GOOD LIVING than BAD and yet the American media only shows the absolute worst.
Of all the stories to do about Uganda---ESSENCE magazine just did a story about girls being kidnapped and raped by the Army in the North of the country. But overall, Uganda is a wonderfully modern BLACK country to live in.
______________
ANOTHER POINT:
Your ancestors--the people who built this country---looked far more like the Africans who are arriving here as "foreigners".
They thought more like those people and came from the languages and customs of those people.
And were BRED OUT by the "slave and color" systems as well as by their own children who could be outraged that they hung from a tree--but not outraged enough to give birth to them again.
And one thing that AAs totally ignore, discount is the ANGER and INSULT that "Some" Africans feel when they notice that the Black American, increasingly.......is no longer Black, no longer nappy haired and has not given victory to their ancestor by bringing them back into the world.
The White Man, of course, still looks JUST LIKE the Europeans who came here.
This is where some part of the DISCONNECTION occurs---because there are UNSPOKEN STATEMENTS that Black Americans make via media and hip hop that basically criticize the African for existing.
However, Africans also COPY Black Americans and EMULATE everything they do, which proves that they share the Self-denial AS WELL, although, to a lesser degree.
______
LASTLY, Yvette....
because I was raised by African-Americans (Black Americans) and loved by them and have full knowledge of their history.....
....I FEEL that I am a Black American and I feel enormous loyalty and PROTECTIVENESS towards them and because I have been put in a position to KNOW THEM.......I feel, overwhelmingly, that we are the same people.
I know it's arrogant---but I believe that GOD sent me here to protect and SAVE the Black Americans from the White people (who are ALSO "your family" now, because they OWNED you). Unfortunately, in order to do that, CONFRONTATION is necessary and I could not confront AAs if I were not ONE of them.
So therein lies the key to communication. Becoming one.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1353
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:17 pm: |
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ABM---
if I ever become rich, then I would like to send you for a week....to SENEGAL (one of the main homelands of your ancestors).
Then I would be very interested to hear what you have to say.
And in fact, I always delight when Black Americans return from Senegal---because they had no idea that the people who REALLY love them are poor and don't have money to get to them.
Their real flesh and blood.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:35 pm: |
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I've been mistaken for trinidanian, jamaican,and ethiopian by members of those respective nationalities and others. I'm flattered of course, but recently I've been starting to wonder what brought those people to such conclusions. I speak standard english, wear homemade jewelry, and read durig my free time. However, as I look around myself, most(but not all) of my fellow AA are either quiet in class, chatting in the cafeteria, or wearing clothes with a namebrand on it. Am I being compared to a stereotypical image? I don't feel insulted when identified as african or caribbean, but I feel more determined now to express my AA identity to show some of these people that we all don't flash bling, swear in public, and try to "get paid". |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:57 pm: |
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roXie, surely you know that you are a "boho", as opposed to a "bougie" or a "buppie." |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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I found Brad Pitt to be very sincere in his concern about the children of Africa, during his interview with that yenta Diane Sawyer on 20-20 last night. I've really developed a new respect and appreciation for ol foine Brad because in addition to his concern for the less fortunate, he had the gumption to kick that over-rated, self-centered, lantern-jawed, beady eyed, plug-nosed Jennifer Aniston to the curb, and take up with that cool, sensuous, humanitarian, Angelina Jolie. Me likee. Viggo, wherever you are, your days may be numbered. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 495
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
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On a BASIC human level, I don't know how anyone can turn their head to this very serious, heartbreaking and relevant issue. I feel strongly that the more these issues are discussed, the faster the men, women and children suffering in these horrific conditions will get the tender care they DESERVE as human beings. Kola, keep posting these articles as you find them. There are people who care.
On another note, I also saw Brad Pitt on 20/20 last night. I totally respect him. I also feel that he is completely sincere in his efforts to help children in Africa. He mentioned that America contributes less than 1% of it's budget to aid countries such as Africa. His comment (in a disgusted tone) was, "We can do better than that." I totally agree with him. He also mentioned that it only takes the cost of 1 music CD to pay the tuition, uniform and book fees for one year of education for a child--amazing! Though it's sad (to me) that it seems to take a celebrity to say something to evoke some kind of social change, I was glad to hear someone who is idolized so much in America make such powerful, truthful and passionate statements regarding the issues that face Africa--it's long overdue. Nevertheless, if that is what it takes Americans and other people around the world to wake up, then so be it.
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Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 552
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:11 pm: |
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He mentioned that America contributes less than 1% of it's budget to aid countries such as Africa.
*taking cover*
Moonsigns, Africa's not a country. ;-)
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 497
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:19 pm: |
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Mah,
Thanks, I do know Africa is a continent. He has been working primarily in Ehtopia, a country. Sorry for not being more specific.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 498
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:21 pm: |
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And I do know how to spell Ethiopia--I'm just having some issues today ;) |
Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 553
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:49 pm: |
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Moonsigns, I knew you knew. ;-)
Glad to see you around these parts again. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3262
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:54 pm: |
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Kola,
I agree with ‘Vette along several lines.
First, I do NOT think AA’s are any more “BONDED” to non-Africans than they are to Africans. I think our relations with them are primary tentative arrangements of varying degrees of convenience of which AA’s are, more times than not, in a subordinate/disadvantaged position.
And A LOT of you Africans (and West Indies too) come here and behave as disrespectfully of Blacks as their European, Middle Eastern and Far East counterparts.
You’ll call us lazy, ignorant, hostile and improvident while conveniently skirting the fact that A LOT of us fought, marched, were degraded, raped and lynched for Native Africans to now enjoy the privileged of pursuing their dreams in America.
Now. I understand we are often probably getting a distorted view of what the average African is like. (Because, truthfully, the average African will NEVER enjoy the opportunity to visit America and meet AA’s to begin with.)
So, I’ll agree part of our problem is our lacking the necessary travel/outreach to get a fuller, fairer understand of African societies/cultures.
But GOD, look at Africa!
You expect an empathy/fidelity between AA’s and Africans that don’t even exist amongst AFRICANS themselves.
Africa’s probably the most blessedly plentiful place on earth. Yet foks are starving/enslaving/killing each other.
You refuse to adopt and maintain any systems/institutions that will allow you to compete against Europe, the Americas and Asia.
And worse, you’re CONSTANTLY begging your colonists for money...but then expect equal/decent treatment from them.
Kola. Africa’s got to start cleaning up it’s own mess if it’s to ever expect AA’s to want to add their issues/troubles to the mounting scale of $#*+ we’ve already gottah deal with. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 503
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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Mah: "Glad to see you around these parts again."
Moonsigns: Thank you, Mah! I truly appreciate your kind words! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3266
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:15 pm: |
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Moony,
I concur with Mah'. We've sorely missed your (naive, polyanna White) perspective.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 05:42 pm: |
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--roXie, surely you know that you are a "boho", as opposed to a "bougie" or a "buppie."--
is that a bad thing or a good thing? |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
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My dear roXie, how old are you? Have you never heard of these distinctions?? "Bohoe" is short for Bohemian. The term "Bohemian" dates waaay back to maybe the 16th century. They are people who shun the trappings of conventional society and passionately embrace the liberal arts, while exploring intellectual philosophies, always open to new ideas, and deep meditation and even free love. The often show a preference for living in lofts and drinking wine and smoking weed and even experimenting with mind-expanding drugs. They have, during different eras, also been known as Beatniks and hippies. Today, generally speaking, they are people who tend to lead a non-conformists lifestyle. And, of course, there are the "pseudo" Bohemians, who effect this type of behavior just to be thought of as "different". |
Anunaki3600
Regular Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 05:36 am: |
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The bond between AA's and Africans is as strong as the leadership in these two communities. During the 60's, James Brown , Malcolm X, etc travelled across the Continent and created this strong bond and later Muhammed Ali did the same and brought the two communities closer. The more we know about each other the more comfortable we become with each other.
Don't ever think that Africa is a "beggar" continent. A thousand times more wealth is taken out of Africa than is given back as AID every year (read "confessions of a economic hitman"). You may see a "poor" looking Masai without shoes on and think "boy is that man poor" and not see the two hundred cows and one hundred goats/sheep that he is grazing in the field.
You can take an African out of Africa (even for 500 years), but will never take the "african" out of him. Hee hee hee. AA's behave just like africans, it's just that they dont know they are doing it. Okra anyone? Maybe gritz? Cornbread?
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 05:49 am: |
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Where have you been Anunaki? I MISSED YOU.
I agree with your entire post!
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1372
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 05:50 am: |
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After I pointed out that it wasn't ME in the film with Michael Caine that you watched----you disappeared.
Were you disappointed King? Sorry, but that was Beverly Johnson.
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Anunaki3600
Regular Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 07:01 am: |
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I took some time off and went into the "bushes" to get away from a stressfull urban environment. I needed that and am back in the "rat race". Nairobi is very stressfull with lots of traffic and very expensive.
SPLA/SPLM are resolving their differences in Nairobi. A lot of Southern Sudanese are moving home from Nairobi. Good things are coming for Southern Sudan. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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To Cynnique:
Wow, I knew what a bohemian was. "boho"-"bohemian", why didn't I make the connection sooner? ^_^ .
I have met pseudo-bohemians and boy do they drive me up the wall! They actally think their vapidness isn't showing through the unconvincing facades. anyway, Thank you for the info. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3285
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 11:00 am: |
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roXie,
Are you referring to something akin to that "Lisa Bonet, Lenny Kravitz" vintage of bohemia who affect earthy, spiritual personas while they derive riches from TV and music royalties? |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 11:00 am: |
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--AA's behave just like africans, it's just that they dont know they are doing it. Okra anyone? Maybe gritz? Cornbread? --
I've always agreed with this whole heartedly. the sad thing is alot of blacks not only not realize it but also view them as stereotypes as a result of hardwired psychological brainwashing caused by manipulated images from jim crow.
For example, The red bandanna was a harmless african trait until it was tainted it with the minstrel show invention of Aunt Jemima. Heck, even some people forget or refuse to acknowledge that Carmen Miranda's outfits and Bo Derek's hair are african.very sad. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3287
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 11:34 am: |
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Anunaki,
I agree we all suffer from a lack of outreach between A’s and AA’s, though I do NOT view such to be one-sided.
I have SELDOM-IF-EVER seen high-profile A’s tour AA communities, save the occassional Mandela deification parade/ceremony.
And true wealth is NOT defined via the quantity/quality of the goods/svcs one produces but rather the control/power/influence born from such.
You can have all the farmland/cows in Iowa or Nigeria. But what good is it if your community’s children develop Rickets and tooth decay from malnourishment?
Yes. Africans by virtue of Africa's natural/human resources should on a per capita basis be amongst the world’s wealthiest, most potent people.
But are you?
I think at some point real-soon the ENTIRE African Diaspora is going to be FORCED to look LONG/HARD at who and what we are, where we’re headed...and what we are going to be.
Because, like you, I think for better and worse we scion of Mother Africa are very much the SAME. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1376
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 12:43 pm: |
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Whoever heard of "rickets" or malnourishment before the White man and White woman came, ABM?
We lived in a radiant PARADISE for centuries with no rickets and plenty of everything before the Caucasoids INVENTED all their division tactics.
Putting their nut up in your blood was just another one.
And now you talk like it.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3291
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 01:06 pm: |
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Kola,
At night the White man came.
And brought hell in his wake.
Thus nothing is the same.
Today what can we make? |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:16 pm: |
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ABm:
I was reffering those types that find a film/meeting/art piece "interesting" or "moving" but have no basis to support their "opinion". It just "speaks to them"(doesn't it always?). But yeah, I'm not fond of those hypocritical types either.
But you know, even If my career made me richer than Donald trump, it wouldn't be worth it if I had failed to make an impact on someone or somewhere. All I want is credit for my creations. Let someone who needs it have the money. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3294
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 03:02 pm: |
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roXie,
Many a starving artist has tricked him/herself into believing as you.
Girl you bettah stop that socialist thinking and get your bread. How the heck are you going to be able to sustain any meaningful life as an artist if you're not getting your ends in?
You got a +$1M trust fund or something? |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I didn't mean give up *all* the money. I am not attracted to mansions, penthouses and other various extravagances most celebrities have. I prefer a simple, sustainable lifestyle. If I had any extra money beyond what I needed I'd save it for my family and others.
And if I do have a trust fund my mother's been keeping a really good secret. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 429
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 01:58 pm: |
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Kola, All: I began a new thread relevant to this topic here: http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/2152/5671.html?1118426206 |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1412
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
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Yvette, thank you SO MUCH.
We got off topic...as always happens when you come to Kola's house for tea. LOL
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