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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 388
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:43 am: | 
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http://www.chico.mweb.co.za/art/2005/2005may/050527-malcolm.html
Link courtesy of Afro Netizen: http://afronetizen.blogs.com/afronetizen/
Note: To my knowledge the author (Bruce Perry) and I are not related, despite our last names! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3202
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:11 am: |
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'Vette,
I recall recently broaching this (touchy) subject with (our local Malcolm X worshipper) Kola. I think we concluded that given the troubled upbringing of the then Malcolm Little, it is likely he engaged in behavior that he might have otherwise avoided had his early life been less tumultuous.
And such 'behavior' might have included gay swordfighting.
Moreover, given his fractured family life (e.g., murdered father, institutionalized mother, separated from siblings, etc.), his living in orphanages, boy's homes and the like; the chances are high Malcolm was exposed to some sexual confusions/mishaps, if not outright molestation/rape.
I'm not arguing that he was NOT gay. Hey. Who at this point really know? H*ll! Most who could prove/disprove such likely dead.
But I think you have to consider his ENTIRE history before you can draw any meaningful extrapolations from what Malcolm X might have done as a boy and young man.
If, however, the articles asserted that AFTER his conversion to the NOL Malcolm maintained clandestine gay relations, THAT, of course, might be another matter altogether. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
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What MALCOLM WAS...
...was the bravest, most articulate, most brilliant, most masculine, desirable and KINGLY "Black Man" that the Western world has ever produced. Bar none.
If he ever did sleep with men---I could give a shit, as I suspect that more than half of "males" have engaged in some sort of homoerotic experience at least once in their lives, and perhaps that number is even greater for "females".
What I hate, detest about this kind of After-You're-Dead speculating and gossiping.......is that it's so clearly designed to besmurch and to stigmatize--to lessen the meaning and impact of the life at hand.
In my own case, for having close "lesbian" friends--I have had to deal with people constantly LYING on me--claiming that I myself MUST BE a "dyke", all her heroes (Alice Walker, etc.) are lesbians, she writes positive portrayals of gays.....
I'm not gay. I have NEVER had sex with another woman (not that I don't wish that I could do it, but the fact is---I'm not gay).
Then there's the rumor that is often attached to BLACK WOMEN who are taller than Western men and have strong features----that we are/or used to be "MEN" ourselves.
This has also been said about me....and in my lifetime, I've heard people sit up and claim that Grace Jones, Iman, The Pointer Sisters, Diana Ross, Cher, Naomi Campbell, Angela Bassett, Donna Summer....and even the soft CIARA...are really "MEN".
Of course when these type of women produce men like "Kareem Abdul Jabar", "Muhammad Ali", "Pele", "Michael Jordan" and all those NUBIAN-Mandingo Chocolate Supermen that everybody wants to lay up with-----no one gives the credit to the GENETIC POWER to those Amazonian-like dark beauties with strong features and athletic bodies.
I would rather come out of Grace Jones's body ANY DAY than come out of Halle Berry or Angelina Jolie. Those women don't have the STOCK genetically that "I WANT" and Grace Jones does. African skin, hair, bones---it's scientifically proven---is the healthiest, longest lasting and purest DNA base.
Whatever Malcolm X was.....he was RIGHT.
And he will always RIGHT with me. I love him no matter what any of these fuckers try to say about him.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1291
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:02 pm: |
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LONG LIVE THE KING:
I LOVE MALCOLM X
forever, no matter
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
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From the Article:
In New York, two of Malcolm’s friends from Michigan remember bumping into him at the YMCA, where Malcolm bragged he earned money servicing “queers’’.
KOLA:
***Sorry. I don't believe that a "Brotha" in the 1950's would even THINK ABOUT saying some shit like that....they didn't acknowledge that "queers" existed in the 1950's. And it HAD TO BE during the 1950's that this was said, BEFORE he went to prison, right?
______________________
From the article:
While living in Flint, Michigan, his roommate noticed that instead of sleeping in the room they were sharing, Malcolm sneaked down the hall to spend the night with a gay transvestite named Willie Mae.
KOLA:
So what!
WillieMae was probably fine as hell and could suck the shit out of a dick. Malcolm probably didn't even know it wasn't a real girl. So the fuck what! Shit.
I wish I could have been Malcolm's "server".
____________________
This part-time whoring may have been pecuniary. There is, however, plentiful research suggesting that many guys who have sex with men for payment are in denial about their homosexuality. They tell themselves they are doing it for the money. This is their way of coping with same-sex desires that they are unable to accept. Was this Malcolm’s excuse? Surely there must have been some degree of queer desire to enable Malcolm to sustain his sexual experiences with men over a period of 10 years? If this desire was within him from adolescence to early adulthood, could he have erased it completely in later life?
Sexuality is not like a newspaper--read today and discarded tomorrow. Established desires can be sublimated or repressed, but never eliminated. If people have a homosexual capacity, it stays with them for life — even if they never act on it. Was Malcolm an exception?
KOLA:
Oh, OK. For real?
This SHIT sounds just like some gay folks sitting in a circle with a Oujia board trying to claim that EVERYBODY with a modicum of fame....is "gay".
Talk about grand hypothesis and late delusions.
I swear to God----GAY people will MAKE YOU gay by association.
I don't buy this shit.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3204
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:25 pm: |
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Kola,
Cher's got a son who looks's like Ali and can hoop-it like Michael Jordan?
WOW!
But he can't be Sonny's...Right?
And thanks for confirming a suspicion most men have had (and hoped) concerning the percentage of women who've gone the k.d. lang route. I'll bet if you ever join up with THAT cowgirl posse, Alice Walker and 'em are going to throw you are party like you wouldn't believe! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3205
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:28 pm: |
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Kola: "WillieMae was probably fine as hell and could suck the shit out of a dick. Malcolm probably didn't even know it wasn't a real girl. So the fuck what! Shit."
ABM: Okay. Yeah. You're right about THAT one. A friend of mine once got caught up in a similar scenario. We all dogged him out. Then we saw 'her'. GULP! All I'll say is "Thank GOD I was not barhopping with my homie that night.". |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3206
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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Kola,
It's also being widely reputed that Abraham Lincoln, perhaps this country's greatest President, was gay or bisexual.
I doubt, though, most us African Americans would give that - fact or fiction - deciding weight versus the other thing he did.
I agree though there seems sort of 'conspiratorial' work at play here that want's to 'homosexualize' our departed heroes.
Maybe it as you infer, there's some perfuntory desire to see some pink where there's really only blue.
Or perhaps it's believed that if we could be made to accept greats such as Malcolm or Lincoln being gay, we could fully/openly accept such from anybody else. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3211
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 01:47 pm: |
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'Vette,
Would you date Malcolm X if you strongly suspected or knew he was a switch-hitter? (I think I pretty much know Kola's answer.) |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:13 pm: |
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ABM, you must be outta your mind: Yes. Of course. Darn straight. (So to speak!)
I would have probably dated him even if I strongly suspected or knew he dated sheep and other livestock. That was just one fine, charismatic man. And like someone else said (Kola?) I like a man in glasses--the geekier the better! And his smile! Just gorgeous. And his voice...
***fanning****
At any rate. I think men just need to get over the whole confined masculinity BS. There is something inherently sexy about a human being who is aware of all aspects of their sexuality--not just the stereotypically "male" or "female." |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:20 pm: |
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ABM,
I would NOT date Malcolm if I had a "strong suspicion" that he's a switch-hitter.
The fact is....I don't believe that he was.
I would still support and respect him 100% as my leader if he was "bi" or "gay"--but I don't do guys who fuck guys when I know about it.
There isn't time right now to go over some very TRUE FACTS about black "endentured" culture and the "sexual realities" of Oppressed Poor People----which basically include the fact that child molestation, incest and homoerotic experiences are far more frequent and saturated within such groups. The book "INVISIBLE MAN" where the black father can only afford to sleep in the same bed with his black wife and black daughter---and begins having a wet dream of a white woman's lush WHITE apartment---and then penetrates and begins fucking his 12 year old daughter (and how the 3 of them tragically pretend it isn't happening).....is a good metaphor for the sexual psychosis that rocks the black community...because of their STATION and STATUS in the world.
I know for a fact that MANY black men are "sexual addicts", because this country exploits, celebrates and DEMANDS the sexual prowess of black men and their "big...BLACK....cocks".
Black men feel UNLOVED and villified. And on top of that, in their lurid insecurity and colorism---a great many of our black men at the top have portrayed the Black Woman as the "Enemy" of the black man---as well as a "betrayer" of the black man.
Therefore, in many ways, he can only turn to himself (other black men) for the most nakedly honest Unveiling of his true self. His true SOUL can only be bared in front of and accepted--he believes--by another black man.
What I am describing is in NO WAY "homosexuality"----but rather the intimacy that can lead to the playing out of homoerotic experience, simply because there is no one else to play out with----who will understand.
Black men are human beings. They need to find fulfillment, just as lonely unloved black women do, and many times----people who are NOT GAY find themselves experiencing homoerotic "spaces" where NEED turns to curiosity and curiosity turns to Experimentation.
As I said, more than HALF of black men have more than likely experienced some sort of homoerotic situation---(a) grinding another guy with clothes on (b) jerking off together or letting another male jerk him off (c) The most common--letting a weaker, effeminate type male suck his dick behind a 7-11 or in the woods (d) Comparing dick sizes and having curiosity about another male's penis but not necessarily acting it out.
This is not ABNORMAL. It's VERY normal and it's "human".
All Human Beings begin in the womb as females...a few weeks later, the "chromosones" determine what SEX the child will be...and then later, ALL HUMAN BEINGS are BORN "bisexual"---and by the age of 5 or 6, their "sexuality" is SET to what......90% of the time as "heterosexual", because the society has Moral and Social Mores and Folkways which INFORM the society itself as to what is "normal" and "acceptable". Kids learn these mores and folkways via their environment and gravitate to the ROLES that are set in front of them and designated as "normal". Overbearing STRONG mothers DO NOT create homosexual children--although they do allow for a greater emotional range to be reached by their male children, which could more easily bring out a child who is already homosexual.
Some kids...usually 7% of any society, including the Animal World (cats, dolphins, dogs, frogs)......are HOMOSEXUAL. Another 3% is BISEXUAL. That's 10%.
There are DEGREES of "sexual experience" that people are Predisposed to....and MOST OF US are "INFORMED" not to accept certain experiences---even if we desire them or they pop into our heads.
The ONLY WAY, ABM, that I have known that I was not gay.....was because of my desire to BE gay.
I wanted to be with other women (to escape my obsessions with men)....but found that I could not "act out" with women, or be intimate with them beyond mentally. I found myself REPULSED by the attempt to see myself having sex with another woman.
But I WANTED TO...and this is why I realize that sexual experience is NOT a concrete thing---it can be varied and very difficult to pigeon hole.
I do not believe that Malcolm X was gay or that he even had "dozens" of homosexual experiences.
I do believe that he was molested as a child, probably by another male (which is VASTLY underreported in the black community, because of Machismo)....and I do believe that Malcolm probably butt-fucked a few guys in Prison (which is what STRAIGHT MEN do in confinement or prolonged separation from females).....and I do believe that Malcolm enjoyed getting "head" and probably looked the other way (as STRAIGHT MEN do when their selfishness overrules their CONSTITUTIONS)...
but the overriding fact is that----he was fucking the shit out of Betty, quite frequently and with much gusto according to her accounts.
In fact, Betty's experience with Malcolm was far different that Rock Hudson's wife describes with Rock--who was also macho and virile looking/acting.
Betty had 4 babies and a few miscarriages. She has intimated, in a gracious understated way, that she saw no signs of "gayness" in her hubby---he was ALWAYS up in her----and also treated her EXCEEDINGLY well.
I believe her.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:21 pm: |
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Wow, Yvette.
Great answer.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 394
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:35 pm: |
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Kola, why do you suppose that someone could not be "virile" with someone of the opposite sex and still be quite competent at sexual expression with someone of the same sex?
I think this instance--like the Abe Lincoln thing earlier this year--likely is an instance of making a mountain out of a molehill. As you allude to, there is a difference between being "gay" or "bi-sexual" and having experienced "same sex" sexual expression (even multiple times).
It also could very well be what ABM said above about wanting everyone to be gay. I think that is a part of many "pride" and "identity" movements. (Look back on all the scouring of history to make all sorts of folks "black" that went on at one point.)
But I think the bottom line is that the social construction of gender and sexual roles is very strong and does a lot of damage to some people's mental health when these people experience attractions that they are told are "wrong."
You are on point about the under-reporting of sexual molestation in the black community. It is important to stress that MOST of this is perpetrated by people who are straight or who are living their lives as straight people. Would there be less sexual exploitation if we could be more acceppting of safe, consensual relationships between adults--of whatever sex?
I don't know but my hunch is, yes. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:42 pm: |
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I appreciated Malcolm's dynamic public persona, but as subsequent biographies documented, a lot of what Alex Haley wrote about Malcolm's conquests and life as a hustler in his version of Malcolm's biography was myth and fiction, just like a lot of what Haley wrote about in "Roots" was fabricated. A while back a letter written by Malcolm to Elijah Muhammad was circulating around the net, and in it Malcolm complained about not being able to meet the sexual demands of his wife. He sounded very conflicted and inadequate in this letter, and it was almost an embarrassment to read. Nevertheless, Malcolm, the public spokesman, earned his esteemed place in the black liberation struggle. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1300
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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Well, Yvette, I DO think they could be "virile" with BOTH sexes. I was simply speaking in "normal" dialogue from the "normal" applique of social custom.
Because personally, I don't even like the word "Virile".
_________
It was me who said that gays want EVERYBODY to be gay.....as I've experienced that first hand.
Very often, I post on my good buddy KEITH BOYKIN's blog (he's the first black openly gay assistant to a President--Bill Clinton--and is a major gay rights leader as well as my hero and my baby)---anyway, I got a lot of Keith's visitors pissed off when I complained that gays were telling people "I" was gay-----and they got made because I didn't want to be seen as "gay", claiming that I was acting like they have a disease.
That's bullshit. I love all the gay people I know---but I still want some DICK and I don't want them cockblocking by telling prospective men that I'm "gay" when I'm not.
_____________
Yes, most Pedophiles are straight.
________________
Would there be less sexual exploitation if we could be more acceppting of safe, consensual relationships between adults--of whatever sex?
KOLA:
NO, I don't think so, Yvette.
Or maybe you should define "sexual exploitation". Do you mean "rape" and "molestation" or the kind of exploitation that women like Marilyn Monroe and Pam Grier went through?
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:57 pm: |
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But Cynique....."Betty" has said that the letter purporting to be Malcolm claiming inadequacy was fabricated by the NOI. It's no secret they've tried to smear him in other ways, not just his sexuality. I was even at a rather Afrocentric gathering when a black man made the joke----"As lightskinned as Malcolm was, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a little sugar in his tank. Yall yellow boys be too pretty sometimes."
Of course when it was my turn to speak at the podium---I blasted the shit out of that ugly crusty JEALOUS black motherfucker.
_____
Betty said that not only was the letter a fake---but that Malcolm was more than she could handle.
Now maybe as a loyal wife...she was lying.
But I believe Betty.
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:22 pm: |
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Well, certainly, Betty would be the last person to confirm that the letter was authentic. After all, her legacy was to preserve the larger-than-life legacy of the icon who was her husband. The letter certainly looked authentic and it did match his handwriting. But, who really knows??? Malcolm's accomplishments live on. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3217
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:35 pm: |
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'Vette/Kola,
Boy. There's no predicting what you chick'll think. 'Cause I would have guess the exact OPPOSITE responses to the Malcolm question of those you gave.
Go figure!
Though I can't help thinking one of you 2 is suffering from at least a tad bit of 'denial'. (And that certain someone originates from an area of the world that has a river that's similarly pronounced.)
'Vette: "ABM, you must be outta your mind: Yes. Of course. Darn straight. (So to speak!)...I would have probably dated him even if I strongly suspected or knew he dated sheep and other livestock.
ABM: Well then: Welcome to the wonder world of Women of DL Brothahs. Be sure to get your set of blinders as you safely ignore the Hershey Highway your love one enjoys traveling.
Ladies. I agree we guys should feel free to get in touch with our feminine sides. But try as I do, the 'chick' won't lemme.
Now, Seriously...
It's easy for you chicks to hype the be-all-you-can-be-with-whom-you-can-be stuff.
You all are chicks.
Women can affect almost any kind of image/persona and change that $#*+ up like you do your underwear...without anyone knowing or remembering what you did before.
Really. A woman can be straight one week. Lesbian the next. And straight again the week after. And no one bats an eye.
(See Anne Heche.)
But being a man is a specific kind of thing. There's a mythos, grandeur that's largely defined via our relationship with and what we can and cannot do with women.
A brave knight can't rescue yonder virgin ESQUIRE from a tower. The $#*+'s unseemly!
Let it get out you've been bootyclapping some dude, and your name, rep and image whirls right down the crapper. And like everything else that goes that route, it ain't ever coming back.
There are basically 2 kinds of straight men: Men who've NEVER had sex with other men ['ABM land']. And men who will for the rest of their lives want to kill themselves for having indulged such. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:48 pm: |
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ABM....I AM NOT in denial.
I would NOT go to bed with Malcolm X if he were alive, I was around him, and I KNEW that he was "bisexual" and sexually active with men.
I would support his cause and still follow him, but I would NOT sleep with him.
Ditto if he was with a bunch of white women and coming on to me at the same time---I would not sleep with him, no matter how much I was attracted to him.
You want me to "NOT" fuck a black man---show me him gushing over a string of white girls or coming out of hotels with them......my pussy turns to stone and what little hole there is caves in. It's not RIGHT, but that's how it is.
I would go and fuck me a white boy, probably.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 396
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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ABM, now I said nothing about being OK with lying and scheming. That, I do not like. But as far as "suspecting" and going out with someone anyway, who might (must) later confide, then, yes I might have been OK with that.
Actually, I was in that situation a long time ago. But a main reason why it didn't work out is that the gentleman never was honest with what I suspected (and actually, had little problem with).
And for the record, I was answering your question narrowly--about "dating" as in going out together, hanging out, talking on the phone, getting to know each other. Not as a euphemism for "having sex." So my answer should be understood in that context.
I do agree with you about women having more lattitude in this area than men. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3220
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:57 pm: |
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Kola,
I understand. But don't you think the "stone" p@$$% thing might be a BIG turn-off for the "white boy"?
And how MANY White women can a brothah gush over before your cervical calcification occurs? |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1306
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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ABM,
my pussy turns into a warm blue sea when I set eyes on a goodlooking white man who "wants me".
And if a man is looking to tag me then he should be a lot smarter than what you allude.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3221
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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'Vette,
So are you saying if a man TOLD you he enjoyed and would continue to have sex with other men, you'd maintain a dating relationship with them?
Seems risky to me. I mean, what if you fall for'em (which, btw, is a more common phenomenon amongst the Women of DL Brothahs than many of them care to admit)? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3222
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:05 pm: |
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Kola: "...my pussy turns into a warm blue sea when I set eyes on a goodlooking white man who "wants me"."
ABM: I thought you wanted me to lay off the thing between W and Condi. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3223
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:09 pm: |
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Kola: "And if a man is looking to tag me then he should be a lot smarter than what you allude."
ABM: You mean like Evander Holifeld 'smart'? Or does that only work for dark Black men with bulges in all the right places?
Btw: I saw Holifeld dancing with some White chick on a TV show recently. The looked pretty 'snug'. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 398
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:09 pm: |
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This is all hypothetical, you understand. Maybe at the time I was talking about I was more curious than anything else. Maybe I just thought it was cool that I was going out with a fine brother that would turn the heads of anyone--male or female--when walking through the club.
Maybe I also like to think that I was much more worldly than I actually was.
I don't know. But I do know the game playing and lying was a turn off. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 399
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:11 pm: |
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My votes for new OB/GYN classifications: "cervical calcification" and "vaginal warm blue sea"
Y'all are killin me! LOL |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1307
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:11 pm: |
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ABM----what are you? Playing Dennis the Menace today!!
You're the one actually DOING all this freaky shit (or have done) and then got the nerve to WHAT IF us to death with some big precocious Dennis the Menace type questions.
You want me to start fucking with you and get DESTINED in here upset?
Keep on.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3224
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:12 pm: |
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'Vette,
Thanks for your candor. And I'm sure you'll concede this flossin' you're alluding to is probably how A LOT of Black women get into Oprah-show trouble. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 400
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:14 pm: |
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No doubt, ABM. No doubt. What can I say--You're only in your 20s once! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3225
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:18 pm: |
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Kola,
What did I do wrong? I'm just trynah have some interesting, informative and lively coffee table chat.
That's all.
'Vette,
HAHA!
Great call. And if we register them with the Library of Congress maybe we can get copyright protection so we can get paid every time they're used. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:41 pm: |
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ABM,
WHAT IF
you were spineless enough to suck your own cock.
Would you do it?
Now be honest.
|
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1311
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:44 pm: |
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ABM, I'm upset with you, because you just dashed my hopes of ever being with Evander Holyfield.
What an asshole! And you made me cry.
He was my last good fantasy.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1312
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:46 pm: |
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I hate you black motherfuckers!!
All of you are dead! You don't even exist anymore!
I hate you!
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3228
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:46 pm: |
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Kola,
Babe. Lemme tellyah!
If I could do THAT, I'd be a middle aged, unmarried virgin who be so obsessed with such I'd never has enough time/energy to ever leave my bed. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1313
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:51 pm: |
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You knew that would hurt me ABM (about Evander).
That's why you did it.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3229
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:56 pm: |
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Kola,
Oh. Don't get your African undies in a bunch. I was just messin' witcha.
Holifeld was on one of these crappy reality shows/contests and he was paired up with a professional dancer who, by all indications, just happened to be White.
I think all of Evander's +100 baby mamas are Black (I hear 1-in-3 Black 10 - 15 year olds you run into in Atlanta might be his.).
But hey. Dude done such plentiful dippin', I'm sure a few White/Hispanic/Asian hunnies got caught up in his phallic onslaught. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1314
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 04:58 pm: |
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Well, he can STILL get this too.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3230
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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Kola,
I'll always win.
Because as brilliant as you are your womanhood proscribes upon you a level of empathy, decency and humanity that I as a man can never hope (nor desire) to achieve. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3231
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:04 pm: |
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Kola,
Of course "STILL" can. And by all indications, if he ever get's wind of your lustful missives...He WILL. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1315
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:12 pm: |
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Gee, how comforting for DESTINED.
Recent Picture of ABM:
|
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1316
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:14 pm: |
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Oh and HOW is he going to get wind of it, ABM?
Scratch that.
Even if he does---I wouldn't allow myself to meet him.
I have rules about men that I WANT but have no control over wanting. I don't meet them.
They go in a special column I have called "Fantasy Men"---and they STAY THERE with the specific rule that I can never meet them in person.
EVER
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3233
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:15 pm: |
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Kola,
Funny! Though my Black middle 'horn' is MUCH bigger.
HAHA! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1318
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:18 pm: |
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You are not in that column, ABM---because although I do love you and would want you, I don't feel as though you could destroy me as those men could. I still see you as human and not as a GOD...as I see Malcolm X and Evander and a few others, who my thinking is not "RATIONAL" about.
So you see, Evander would never get a shot at me, because I'd be too scared to meet him.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3234
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:20 pm: |
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Kola,
Guess what? I have a few "Fantasy" people that I'm never to meet in person also.
'Course that has less to do with what I want and more to do with the terms of the restraining orders that have been placed against me.
But I guess the spirits the same. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3235
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:23 pm: |
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Kola,
Just re-ignite that rumor that you and Tyson were knockingboots.
I doubt then you'll have to worry much about Holifield pursuing you. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3236
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:33 pm: |
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Kola,
You weren't able to craft a clever rebut to my answer to your question about my blowing myself.
Were you?
Babe. The straightest of men would blow themselves if they could. That's just masturbation X's 100.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1319
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 05:43 pm: |
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Well, no actually ABM I just didn't want to know.
I didn't think you'd do it.
Yuck!
___________
Who said that Mike Tyson was doing it to me?
We never met in person! There wasn't any rumor that I remember.
Mike helped my son.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3238
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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Kola,
Why not? It’s mine and nobody else’s.
I can do with it what I want.
‘Sides. Blowing some other dude would be homosex.
YUCK!
But, babe. Blowing myself would be...the LIFE!
HAHA! |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 413
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:49 pm: |
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I'd like to move away from the topic of self stimulation for a minute if I may.
The discussion about Betty vouching for her late husband's heterosexuality is interesting. It makes me wonder: What do family members owe--if anything--to their deceased members who were public figures? What does Betty owe Malcolm, or Coretta owe Martin, etc?
If they experienced hurt in their life as a result of that person, are they ever "allowed" to tell their story--or do they have to go to their graves being the mouthpieces and memory-bearers of their famous loved one?
If it's the latter, then is that "fair"? Especially since in many many cases we are talking about women who are being silenced, not being seen as fully human and deserving of voice... |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 414
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 01:50 pm: |
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(A'ight, ABM. You can uncurl yourself now. It's not gonna work. Hurry, before you get hurt.) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3258
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 03:19 pm: |
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'Vette,
'Vette: "I'd like to move away from the topic of self stimulation for a minute if I may."
ABM: Fine. What other kind of "stimulation" would you prefer to indulge?
I hear yah. But here's the OTHER side of that, the ONLY reason why the masses of people are concerned about Betty Shabazz at all is she was wife of the beloved Malcolm. So by tarnishing his name - rightly/wrongly - she risks diminishing her and her daughters standing/opportunities.
And, for what: So foks can snicker about what X did or didn't do BEFORE they even met?
I think, on balance, it's probably best people keep the soiled laundry of departed loved ones in their private family hamper.
'Vette: "A'ight, ABM. You can uncurl yourself now. It's not gonna work. Hurry, before you get hurt."
ABM: Alas, I discovered such as far back high school. Ah though: 'ever the dream... |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 416
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:07 pm: |
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What other kind of "stimulation" would you prefer to indulge?
I don't know about "indulging," but in terms of discussion I have started a thread about scientific research into orgasms (or lack thereof).
And, which, I see you have already discovered and contributed your two cents. *smile* |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:13 pm: |
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ABM, I was talking more generally about family members--especially wives, and especially in cases where what they would talk about involves them directly (e.g., marital infidelity).
Are we to not have the benefit of these women's wisdom in dealing with these issues because we'd rather not have someone's name "tarnished"?
I am nt saying I agree. I just find it interesting the different value we seem to place on different things, and why.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3268
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:30 pm: |
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'Vette,
Well. You can do whatever you want with your own story. My point is, though, you likely won't derive from such what you want/expect.
Because Malcolm is not just Betty's husband.
He represents the hopes/dreams of millions. Many of them will fight tooth/nail to preserve what they feel about him (See Kola as an example.).
And they won't easily tolerate ANY that even REMOTELY critiques their hero. (Michael Eric Dyson is STILL reeling from flack he's gotten for a book he wrong 5 years ago that cited MLK's rampant philandering.)
Now, if you willing to endure the brunt of that, I'll commend you. But don't think you're going to easily get away with calling the late-great MALCOLM X a queer...even if you're his very own wife.
H*ll. 'Cause at least half the foks are STILL going to call Betty a treacherous liar. And the other half will blame HER for their hero's sexual ambivalence. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 420
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:35 pm: |
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Hypothetical situation: someone "great" once committed a murder. Or a rape. Or was a child molester. Or a spouse batterer.
Same value on that person's representation in the public's hopes and dreams?
I'm not talking books, other relevations with the sole purpose of discrediting that person. I'm talking about stuff from the people affected/victimized, laying claim to their own survival and their own story. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3270
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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'Vette,
I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Are you suggesting that Coretta Scott King could innocuously discuss issues of spousal abuse/infidelity without millions of people throughout the world INSTANTANEOUSLY concluding she seeks to badmouth the beloved MLK?
If you're saying that, I think it's time to return to your graduate studies.
Look. No matter, what/how it's done, he/she will STILL will be derided by MANY of the "great" person's supporters. Thus, he/she should still weigh the forseeable cost-benefit of going public.
Again, if you can handle it: Cool. Do it to it!
But if you can't, why force yourself into such misery? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1202
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 05:43 pm: |
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Myself, I don't care if Malcolm was gay or King was a philanderer. It had no bearing on what they did for people--a person's sex life is private as far as I'm concerned--
On the other hand, if they had been child molesters or secret serial killers I think it would take away from--maybe even destroy what they did.
I think its because I think of a person being gay or promiscuous as natural. It is when someone crosses into--I want to call it the unnatural, but I guess you would have to say the area where their practices harm somebody, that's when they begin to effect who they are and what they do.
Say Malcolm--when he had become a Muslim minister, had been a closeted gay man that beat and abused his partners. Or if King had really rubbed it in Coretta's face.
What is natural? What is unnatural? I can't say. All I can say is that as long as you don't hurt somebody that's about the best you can do.
At least, if you don't hurt them too much. And they consent to it. And they wear leather and moan and squirm around a lot--you know what I mean, Abm. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1356
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 05:47 pm: |
|
Rita Marley told a whole lot of DIRTY shit about her husband, Bob Marley----------and I commend her.
The stunning thing in reading her book was that you could still see that she loved him so much and was so devoted to him. It was quite sad.
________
My man, Thomas, isn't even dead and I praise everything about him---totally refusing to acknowledge any dirty secrets that might besmurch him, mainly because I want my sons to be LIKE their father and to feel without a doubt that they came from a good man. He IS a good man, with few flaws, actually.
And other than Osama Bin Laden, I do tend to PRAISE all my ex men, all of them, because I'm a very loyal person and when I love someone---it never dies, despite our disagreements and inability to remain paired. I think ALL of the men (other than my North Africa days) that I've been with have been WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL men.
________
I do believe Betty Shabazz's accounts, mainly because once you read about HER and discover the softspoken, classy, RESERVED type of person she is-----but also the HONEST to a FAULT person she is----------you realize that she's not the type to "cover up" dirty laundry. Her tactic would have been to just say nothing at all.
She certainly scoffs at the "letter" and other items that she says were created as a SMEAR campaign against her husband by the NOI and other detractors of Malcolm, which makes sense.
As well, she clearly stated that she could not speak for Malcolm's past BEFORE HER------she said that.
Malcolm himself told her: "There are things about me when I was another man that I don't want you and the girls to know about. I wasn't my real self then. I was a knucklehead."
But she also said that while SHE WAS HIS WIFE...he was insatiable, that she could hardly handle the sexual aspects of the marriage and that she would have had MANY MORE KIDS if Malcolm had lived to the new PRENATAL CARE days. She had 4 as it was and I believe lost 3. She said that Malcolm was a very "sensitive, caring" lover and that his "passion" spilled over into all aspects of his life.
WHY...
WHY O WHY, I ask, is HER WORD less trustworthy than a bunch of Political Pundits and gay Journalists? She was his wife-----and unlike Rock Hudson and other gay men's "wives", there was ample joking and kidding by Malcolm during his speeches about how "Betty was gonna get it when he got back home from the road"........as well as about how much he loved and adored her and thought of her as "smart".
And for the record....
I wish somebody would come trying to tell me YEARS FROM NOW that "Thomas" was gay or bisexual.
I would have the same facial expressions that Betty had.
The ones like--------"Oh yeah, right."
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3277
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Kola,
I agree that Betty did not appear to be the type who'd outright lie to protect Malcolm. She might abstain from commenting. But I doubt she'd blatantly lie for him.
Chris: "On the other hand, if they had been child molesters or secret serial killers I think it would take away from--maybe even destroy what they did"
ABM: Brothah Chris. Ever the Oracle of the Obvious.
Chris: "And they wear leather and moan and squirm around a lot--you know what I mean, Abm."
ABM: HAHAHA!! Okay. You got me with THAT one. I can't even front. HAHAHA!! |
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