| Author | Message | ||
     Troy Rating: N/A |
I know this is an old subject (actually most discussion about race is old), but I just recently saw the motion picture Barber Shop. Because of the controversy (and I'm cynical enough to think that may have been by design) I judged it as a must see. The character Cedric the Entertainer potrays said a few things many Black folks took issue with. However I think the lines were important. Cedric's character helped the viewer, amoung other things, understand that it was not just Rosa Parks who was responsible for starting the civil rights movement. Sure she is held up as the figure head, and symbol - and there is nothing wrong with that. But we can't forget that there were a whole lot of namesless people who were just arrested without all the fanfare. They are equally if not more important; even if we can't evoke their names today. Having seen the movie I think it was almost absurd to for people to expend the time and energy to call for a public apology and to have those portion of the movie viewed offensive cut from the DVD version of the flick. Our efforts are desparely needed in other areas; Don't you think? I'm not sure how or if Jackson and company let up the pressure. However I did recieve an email recently asking that I call some awards program ( I forget which one) and as that Cedric be forced to apologize for the statments made in the movie. I assume that did not happen, but I could be wrong. | ||
| Cynique Rating: N/A |
Troy, Seems like some of our civil rights figures are evolving into mythical symbols. Many great thinkers contend that myth has an important role in the history of a people. Alex Haley even hinted that "Roots" was as much about mythology as it was about fact. On the other hand Cedric, in his role of court jester, certainly has license to poke fun at icons. | ||
| yukio Rating: N/A |
Interesting points. I do think myth has a place in history. On the other hand it was a comedy and people shouldn't look for accurate historical representations in movies. Unfortunately, however, people do...but usually not in comedies. | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
I think what a lot of people were missing was that everybody else in the barbershop put Cedric down for saying those things--that he was viewed as ignorant for saying them. I think everybody knows that more people than Rosa Parks were involved in the Civil Rights struggle, and that she might not have been the first to sit down--but Crispus Attucks was not the only person to be killed in the Revolutionary War, I don't think he was the only one killed (I know he wasn't the only one shot)at the Boston Massacre--yet his name is remembered. Very few events are the result of one person's effort, but, as humans do, we focus in on one person. Certainly it does not take away from what she did--we forget she could not only have been jailed, but beaten or killed for sitting in that seat and nothing would have been done about it. | ||
| Troy Rating: N/A |
I guess Haley would "hint" at Roots being myth since it he made most of it up. PBS during it's memebership drive reran Josephs Cambell's The Power of Myth interviews. Thinking of Parks, Roots, in that context is quite interesting and indeed important to the culture. Perhaps Cedric's characters was views as distroying these myths and sacred icons. I would think that Martins legacy is strong enough to withstand a few remarks by a character in a movie. Maybe those against see it is just another in attack in a massive onsaught to debunk out heroes. Sure Cedric's character got a lot of grief, but I did not take that to mean that people thought he was ingnorant. I took it to mean that they were unwilling to even entertain a negative thought about their icons. Seems people have a hard time "hearing" anything that goes against what they were taught or perceive even if it is the truth. Is it more important to maintain a postitve myth or to seek the truth even if that truth will tarnish an image we hold in great reverence? | ||
| Cynique Rating: N/A |
Troy, To paraphrase what Jack Nicholson said in "A few Good Men": People can't handle the truth! Deception is such an integral part of society's institutions - the press, the government, the church, the law - that facing the truth would cause chaos. One reason the majority of the population supports Bush's war plans is because his countrymen want to believe that Americans are the good guys in this scenario. | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
Troy: But what is the "truth" about Rosa that Cedric's character revealed that would destroy her as an icon? Is it not true that she refused to give up her seat on that bus? Is it not true that she was arrested? Is it not true that it was a courageous act, that it was not a publicity stunt? Is it not true that she was breaking a law? Is it not true that she could have probably been beaten, even killed at that time and nothing would have been done? When I was little I was told that George Washington cut down a cherry tree. A lie. People still believe that Lincoln fought the civil war to free the slaves--not true. I detect a note of something in your posts about this--I don't know what it is--impatience with our creating icons or heroes? There are people who might consider you a hero in creating this site--some may say, well, Troy is not the only one or the first one to create an African American site--but maybe it will fall on you. I mean, Grant did not take Richmond--there were 100,000 other guys there with him, but that is what you will read. How can the truth about Rosa Parks tarnish her or what she did? | ||
| Arnette Rating: N/A |
In 1955, a 15 year old Black girl student named Claudette Colvin was actually the first person to refuse to give up her seat to whites on a bus. There are some interesting web sites about Colvin and there is a movement afoot to have this very brave young black girl recognized for putting her life on the line and making history. There are also many as maybe Troy was hinting who feel that Fannie Lou Hamer was the real mother of the Civil Rights movement. That would certainly make more sense, but Rosa Parks had the right light face that negroes found more comfortable raisn up and she was in the NAACP. It really is unfair from a moral standpoint that Parks got all the glory while Claudette Colvin and Fannie Lou Hamer really did do a lot more. | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
Arnette: Your post about Claudette Colvin omits several facts, one of which is that the judge imposed a sentence on her that made it impossible for them to appeal the case, another that the strategists made the decision not to appeal it People can check for themselves at http://www.drizzle.com/~jcouture/93govnotes/L%20Claud%20Colvin.htm I think the whole crux of this argument is over the remarks Cedric made in the movie, which seem to be parting on generational, class and skin tone lines. What if somebody makes a movie and says Fannie Lou and Claudette didn't do squat? Is this okay? | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
Arnette: Re Fannie Lou Hamer the site I visited indicated that her activity started in 1962 http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm It really appears we are engaging in a "who deserves to be the mother of the civil rights movement" debate that Colvin, Hamer and Parks would not want us to get involved in. People get upset when you criticize the Pope. People get upset when you criticize George Bush. People get upset when you criticize someone they like. I don't think we should restrict their right to voice their displeasure, just like I don't think they should try to get people from making these comments. | ||
| yukio Rating: N/A |
Hayden, Arnette, et. al, It seems that we are identifying how a variety of knowledges are engaging, solidifying, and contradicting eachother. We have several forms of popular culture, ie cedric the entertainer and myth, icons, etc, and then we have social history, which identifies what groups do, not individuals, and then we have the Great White Man history, and in this case we're talking about a Great Black Man and Great Black Women. I think it is difficult to negotiate the tensions among these different knowledges; simultaneously, it is essential to identify the differences between a watershed, which can have an iconic effect on its own, and historical specificity, which identifies Colvin as the first person to give up their seat. It is difficult, because it is certain that she may not have been the first person, since much of the past is not documented. Facts are facts, but facts don't make up history and people need to read to learn history, not from popular culture, even if it informs one's knowledge base and engages the intellect. | ||
| Claxton Rating: N/A |
There are two other people who, like Colvin and Hamer, have become footnotes to history because of the way they have been represented or perceived--Ransom Olds and Fritz Pollard. You get bonus points if you can tell me what they did. | ||
| Thumper Rating: N/A |
Hello All, To me the bigger issue is not what Cedric's character said, but his right to say it. Isn't that the first admendment of the Constitution, the freedom of speech. I'm more bothered by the people who had the nerve to demand that he, an actor who was playing a character, apologize for what he said. Its his right to say it, and everyone else's right to disagree, if they wish. After all, they are people. None of those people walked on water, or raised anyone from the dead. They talked about Jesus Christ too, and if He got talked about, who are these people that they CAN'T be talked about? I'm not exactly feeling the argument as to who started the movement, who was the first to sit down, and all this other who shot John stuff. The makers had every right to make the movie, and say what they wanted to say. It all boils down to none of these people could have done it by themselves. Rosa Parks wasn't the only person who had something to lose. What about all of those other brave souls who walked that tight rope without a net. Men and women who had children to support and didn't ride those buses, risked losing their jobs, subjecting themselves to untold violence. I don't see not standing ovations for the people who was at the other end of those fire hoses getting knocked all over streets, or who stood up to the KKK in the middle of the night refusing to move or intimidated, where's the stamps with their faces on them? Me, I rather praise the people whose shoulders these others, that folks believe can't nothing bad or truthful be said against them, stood on. | ||
| Claxton Rating: N/A |
Thumper, there's another example of this same sort of thing involving the Dixie Chicks...I don't care for their music, but I think it's very narrow-minded and short-sighted that radio stations around the country have pulled their songs because they're ashamed that President Bush is a Texan...I'm not backing Bush in this pseudo-war with Iraq--and Congress is just as accountable, but that's another story---but I don't think folks should be punished for not backing him...Understanding that the office of the President is one that typically commands utmost respect at a breath, the man sitting in the office has shown little regard for the men and women he's about to illegally order into combat. To paraphrase Voltaire, I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it. | ||
| Cynique Rating: N/A |
Hi Clax, Now that it no longer does any good for me to fume about George Bush's folly, I have become introspective about certain things. And what I have discerned about my intense opposition to this war, is not so much the war itself, as it is the people who support it, - the red-necked southerners, the right-wing conservative Christian fundamentalists, the blind patriotic sheep, the arrogant white "alpha male" types, the macho hard hats, the military Rambos! I find these people revolting and always end up on the opposite side of any issue they're for. The Dixie chicks might never find favor with country music radio again. Their careers might be wrecked because they exercised their right of free speech. How telling it is that the Bush zealots, who claim this war is being waged in the name of democracy, have zero tolerance for the voices of the loyal opposition. | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
I think Cedric had the right to say what he did in the movie (and Troy, you should watch it again. Everybody in the shop got on his case after he made those comments--I think the writer and director were making their statement as to what they thought of them)--but other people did have the right to say what they said about it. Maybe Al and Jessie were wrong for demanding he apologize or that they take the comments out of the movie--the man is hosting the Image Awards, apparently he's doing ok. The problem with the discussion is it seems to be centering on Rosa Parks, blaming her. She didn't say anything. I mean, Jeez, this is an old woman we're talking about. And Clax, I think Fritz Pollard was the first black man to play professional football. I don't recognize the other guy. | ||
| Claxton Rating: N/A |
Chris, Fritz Pollard was actually the first black pro football head coach. He was player-coach for the now-defunct Akron Pros back in the mid-1920s. He typically gets lost in the shuffle of the few blacks who have been held that responsible position. Ransom Olds, the man for who the now-defunct Oldsmobile Division of General Motors was named, was the first car manufacturer to make use of the assembly line. Unless you know automotive or business history, Olds isn't the name that comes to mind when the assembly line is mentioned. Henry Ford's is... Cynique, I think you're right, the Dixie Chicks might be done as recording artists, much the same as Sinead O'Connor was done after tearing up the Pope's picture on "Saturday Night Live". Scary thing is, it probably won't be foreigners who carry out the next act of terror on US soil...It'll probably be one of those rednecks or white "alpha males", trying to prove a point and settle a beef with the country. | ||
| Troy Rating: N/A |
"Olds"moblie very interesting Claxton. Chris I don't think anyone, certinaly not me, is begrudging Ms. Parks -- far from it. Not sure what I wrote to lead to that conclusion. The discussion is on the controversial reaction to statemens made in the movie. Everyone getting on Cedric's Character case (what was his chacter's name) just illustrates that he opinion was not popular. Notice who the writers got to say those controversial things: Cedric's character was the only one old enough to know first hand that whole era. He was also the only character everyone gathered around to learn something. Sure he was also full of jokes, but he was also a serious character. Again I do have an issue with Jackson and company demanding an apology. For a comment in a movie when there is so much else to worry about of greater significance. Even if they were successful in winning this battle what would they (actually we, since presumably he is fighting for us) have won? | ||
| Chris Hayden Rating: N/A |
Nobody would have won if they had won. I think they probably had not even seen the movie when they made those comments. It does bring to mind the larger question--are there some things we are not going to be "able" to say. Well, I think that the Dixie Chicks episode illustrates that--I was listening to a Russian journalist who was saying this U.S. behavior in Iraq is really blasting America's image in the world--I wanted to call in and tell him that it is illustrating that it is all a hype--yeah you can say what you want as long as it doesn't upset people. I think we as black people need to take pains to avoid this trap--then again, I think that to do so belies a little secret--black people, who have the reputation of being daring and out there, are actually some of the most conservative folks around. I point to music, such as Coltrane or Jimi Hendrix--white folks were the first ones to really get into them, not us. We came around slowly. Look at a lot of the flack Zane and E. Lynn Harris get, even though we are supposed to be sexually liberated. | ||
| Kola Rating: N/A |
Regarding BLACKS (as artists) and Freedom of Speech...you'll find this interesting... I have a chapter in my upcoming memoirs book called "I Put A Spell On You" that's really upsetting the editors at Random House. It's holding up the book signing as a matter of fact. Just to clue you in...Simon & Shuster turned down my memoirs book because of two essays in it--"White Doll" and "Choosing the Right God: CHoosing Self" (my answer--as an African woman--to the Willie Lynch letter). They instead wanted me to scrap my life story and write an entire book about my affair with Osama Bin Laden. My previous agent agreed with them--so I dropped her (a black woman) and got a White male agent and moved to Random House. I only knew Bin Laden for 6 months--so I felt it would be "exploitation" to write an entire book on what was truly one of the most humiliating and distasteful experiences of my life. It would also taint my credibility in other ways--I felt. Now you're all familiar with my posts, so I don't have to tell you how PROFANE and CONFRONTATIONAL those essays are--it's just my writing style, my habit of saying things a certain way...that really truly upsets the White publishers. I have been rejected 5 years now by American publishers--but recent press makes them think that they're letting a Cash Cow get away. They want the "dirt" on Bin Laden...but not the story of a Black woman dealing with race in America...and DEFINITELY not an African woman who is encouraging Black Americans to become more linked with their African roots (as the essay I Put A Spell On You details the two years that I traveled the Southern states, slitting my wrists and putting my blood in the ground...unearthing an old Sudanese edict ("the milk of buk") as a "Spell" to enrapture the future Black children of America to return to the breast of their REAL MOTHER). This essay greatly...GREATLY upsets and frightens the white people. But that is my real life. I put spells on Black Americans all the time...because I am an African woman, I am responsible for them. I cannot watch them perish. Chris is also dead on about Blacks being "too" conservative in public discourse. They are ALWAYS upset with me....the old "why are you flaunting our and YOUR dirty laundry in public, Kola? Shame on you!!"...and then up there Naked for white folks to see, too!!....but with Rap music and the MEN who make it, they don't say a word. Those Boys have unlimited freedom to totally demolish the whole community (which the majority really do)...as if they were gangbangers on a rampage. I write a single poem called "Jealous of a White Bitch" (which ends the essay WHITE DOLL) and the Black people go buck wild on me---"Why you gotta talk to Miss Anne like that!? Who you think you is?" I find this so frustrating...so devastating. Trying so hard to tell MY TRUTH...MY EXPERIENCE as a black woman in America...and trying to do it as an EQUAL. As well as that, I still have to represent for the Zarpunni (mother superior--the women's community)...Back home! No one understands...and it makes you wanna cry. I really feel for the Dixie Chicks and Sinead O'Connor right now and even Amiri Baraka--although I didn't appreciate him calling Condie Rice a "skeezer"--I thought that was a cheap shot. But then again, I've had public brawls with Minister Farrakhan and Harry Belafonte and called them names, so who am I to complain? I'm a black female. I've lived in Africa, Europe and America...and...I just wish that I could GET FREE. you know? I wish, as an artist, that I could GET FREE. By the way, CHRIS (Hi!)...John Coltrane was a major superstar in Sudan. He's responsible for me and millions of other Sudanese and Egyptian girls being named "Naima". My Pappuh Mahdi had all his albums and also Miles Davis, Nina Simone and Aretha Franklin. Kola | ||
| Theprophetess Regular Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 41 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: |
People, people what in the world is wrong with you black folk? I can't believe what I'm reading. First of all, Rosa never said, nor was it ever inferred that she was the 'FIRST' to not give up her seat. She was the 'FIRST' that whites couldn't tear apart because of their lifestyle. Meaning, whites would attack a less learned black person and the circumstances of their resistance and so the NAACP couldn't use them as the figure head for the movement of which they were trying to do. Rosa Park because of her pristine character was one they knew the whites couldn't shoot down like they had the others that the NAACP tried to get through. In other words, she became the 'figure head' for all the resisters and for black's right in general. Thus, she is to be honored for what she represents, effective black fightback that prevailed. Oh, and that big fat Cedric was a idiot for saying that mess, and just gave place to the white devil to taunt blacks. That's why he should have apologized the dope! Besides his speech was more or less improvisation probably, and if not, the writer, director, producer and all parties should have apologized for this evil desecration of what that momentous hour represented. As said, it was hard enough to get a black through that whites couldn't legally beat down like they had the many others. Let me say, I am sick at heart to hear this new 'beat up on black achievements' mentality espoused by blacks. Some utter, 'I don't want reparation or Affirmative action' because whites have lied and distorted the true significance of such matters. It is appalling that blacks are showing themselves dense, dumb, blind, follow/roters of white sinister evil. If we as a people don't lift up our own, or come to the defense who will? You know how whites got Affirmative action disbanded in areas? I mean other than using that stupid clodhopper pet of theirs' Ward Connelly? They began to voice the so-called 'greatness of their flounding fathers.' They spoke and distorted the issue until they had gathered enough opposition to do away with black empowerment and see it as 'bad,' 'unfair,' and any other lie they wanted to put forth. Well, did blacks make things happen? We began to speak disapproval of the injustice, shout, scream at the injustice until a united voice arose and acted against the injustice of segregation, enslavement, discrimination and that's how we got the victory. How then is it that blacks of this 21st century have been so dense as to castigate all black achievements and agree with whites? It is maddening. If we don't lift up the true significance of matters, they will be cast to the ground and we will find ourselves in the same powerless disposition we were in in segregation/enslavement. It is wrong for learned blacks to even open your mouths to voice 'agreement' with that idiot chunky Cedric and his trampling the blood of what the Rosa Park incident represented. It is just wrong! Quit it, people, quit it! |
