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Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 168
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 09:34 pm: | 
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Lawchic: I've not read the report I did find it on-line however http://www.nea.org/teacherquality/images/diversityreport.pdf
On it's face the statement (taken direct from the report:"Students of color tend to perform better – academically, personally and socially – when taught by teachers from their own ethnic groups." is suspect.
As a poduct of the public school with kids in private school (the schools happen to be walking distance from each other). Both with a predominents white teaching staff. Now holding race constant we see one school does a better job at teaching than the other (I don;t have to tell you which one). It is overly simplistic and misleading to suggest race is an overidding factor in the ability of black kids to learn.
I view anything from the NEA produces with a jaundiced eye. But I will read the report nonetheless.
Lawchic, I agree that this report will probably end up being used by people as yet another esxcuse why Black kids can't learn.
It will probably take me a few days to get to it but I'm sure I'll find a ton of holes in this "report". |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 508
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 12:07 am: |
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Without "good students"....you can't have good teachers.
Therefore, it's the PARENT who is the most important person, not the "race" of the teacher.
This report is b.s.
Vigilant, loving, competent parents who "have a belief system" of some kind...produce the good students that make it possible for a teacher to be effective.
Bad students, from lazy, non-focused parents...hinder the teacher's ability to encode knowledge.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 01:18 am: |
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A good school teacher wll tell you that his or her greatest sense of fulfillment comes from turning a bad student into a good student. And those children who need home training the most, are the ones least likely to get it. That's the cold hard reality. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2094
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 03:58 am: |
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I was blessed to have enjoyed the benefit of many fine teachers who were Black, White, Hispanic and Asian. Although they were all different in many ways, they all appeared to share common traits: they were well-grounded in, liked and could empathetically share what they taught, they loved us, believed in our ability to learn and made us personally accountable for our relative success/failure.
So I don't believe the issue of how well/poorly our children do should be primarily relegated to that of the race of teacher/student.
Rather, I believe effective schooling is the product of teachers who can and endeavor to teach, students who can and endeavor to learn and supportive parents/adminstrators/communities.
Having said that, I do think my interests in and ability to succeed was particularly influenced by my relationship some Black male teachers. They did provide for me a point of reference and aspiration that was important for me, perhaps because I grew up without a father.
So, assuming the report provides a full/fair/balance assessment, I don't think we should either wholly accept or discard its results. Perhaps we should instead consider WHY race may be a prevailing factor and whether/how we can supplement the perceived benefits of such. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 805
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:29 am: |
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I am the product of integrated education and I have seen it in action. Black young men told that they would be flunked when they came in the door who were harassed and pressured until they did. A "rogues gallery" in a Geometry class where all the black boys were sat in the back. Three friends of mine barely graduated from High school because all the bs got to them--two of them are now lawyers and one is a computer technician--their SAT's were so high that people knew something was wrong.
I have continuously admonished you, Troy that what happens in New York City does not happen in the rest of the country--the election should have told you that. These people hate these black kids and don't want to be teaching them and too often are there because they can't get anywhere else. That's the bottom line.
You cannot give your kids up to people that hate them and expect them to be educated--but when it comes to pursuing the integrationist dream Negroes are willing to throw their kids off a cliff as long as they can rub some white on 'em.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna tell it.
I myself, after years of such mental beating was rescued by a black male teacher in high school, the first one I had, who finallly awarded me the grades that I deserved.
Have you ever sat in a grade or high school with teachers that hated you who had parents and board members to answer to--they could not give top grades to black students, where would that put the whites? Have your parents ever had to go to a meeting because the black kids and white kids were going to be square dancing together in gym class, and the white parents were tripping off it?
When we talk about what is going on in schools it should not be forgotten that most of the teachers even here in St. Louis with an almost totally black student population, are WHITE FEMALES. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 11:58 am: |
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I hear what you're saying, Chris, but keep in mind that St. Louis, like New York, is also not the rest of the country. I am from a suburb of Chicago, and am also the product of an integrated education. My experience, however, was different from yours and it was typical of all the black students attending high schools in my area. But, I'm sure the reason my "unique" experience was different from yours was that these schools had always been bi-racial, and integration was not an experiment that was foisted upon a resentful white school district. So in these halls of high learning, black and white students co-existed and went their separate without any major conflict, and in many cases, lasting friendships were formed between those of different races. As for the teachers, they were indiscriminant and gave credit where credit was due. If you got the work right, you got good grades. Now, you can call my town "Mayberry" if you want to, but as I said, your experience is not necesssary typical any more than Troy's is. Circumstances differ from place to place. BTW, things did change in later years as the black population in these schools increased, and I do realize that integration is a double-edged sword and is not a panacea for black people. |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 171
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 07:18 pm: |
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Chris, all you are pointing out is another instance of a poor teacher. I'd take a good white teacher or a bad Black one any day of the week.
Sure, if I had my preference I'd prefer a good Black teacher. However the most important thing is the quality of the teacher. Now we have to deal with students, parents and even teachers believing that they have to be of the same race of the student to be effective. It is another excuse for failure.
I read the documents it was simply a repetitive summary of unsupported conclusions. This is classic spin.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1824
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:36 pm: |
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One of the ear marks of a good teacher is the ability to establish a rapport with his or her students. And the reason rapport is so effective is that it transcends skin color. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2101
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 12:41 am: |
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2 of my favorite school teachers were Black men who taught high school math and science. Meeting them were seminal moments in my life because they provide for me living symbols of Black discovery/intellectualism. They absolutely LOVED algebra & trigonometry and chemistry & physics. Thus, under their lively, imaginative instruction, by intellectual interests/confidence soared.
But I was not alone in my admiration for them. They were beloved by EVERYONE (Blacks/Whites/Hispanics/Asians). They were good teachers and good men. Even the otherwise mediocre students did better in their classes than they did elsewhere.
I saw myself wanting to do what it took to 'become' them (My science teacher even looked VERY much like my birth father.). Thus, I began to focus on and act upon what would be required of me to ascend to their level. I'm not sure I would have felt that way had our race/sex differed.
Now, I probably could have enjoyed similar successes were they non-Black and/or female. But I KNOW their being strong/smart/charismatic Black men had a profoundly positive effect on me.
Still. I agree we can't afford to get too hung-up on demographics when hiring teachers. Ultimately, we consumers of education must do the very best with/for what/whom are provide for us. |
Lawchic
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 139
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 01:31 am: |
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You know something else about that report. It also said that fewer blacks were going into education because they were being told by their parents not to because of low wages and various other reasons. Now, coming from a family of educators as I do (two generations before mine), I remember my own mother saying, when I was talking about college, "do whatever you want, just don't be a teacher." I actually remember that moment. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2105
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 02:31 am: |
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Lawchic,
So considering what you hear/experience, should there be any wonder WHY our schools are struggling? |
Lawchic
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
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Nope.
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