| Author |
Message |
    
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:50 pm: | 
|
As I observe women, it amazes me why you all don’t have more power then men.
You are in many ways smarter, more intuitive and more spiritually intuned than we are. You are more decent and generous then men.
You have a higher threshold of pain. You live longer/healthier. You are less likely to be murdered, incarcerated. You better educated than we are.
And you’ve got half the money and all the p@$$%.
So I often wonder why you all aren’t running the world.
Because as I witness women relate with each other here, at home, in the workplace, church, stores, EVERYWHERE, I can’t help reaching this simple conclusion: Yawl really can’t stand each other! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 401
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
|
There are many STUDIES written about that phenomenom ABM. I'll simplify the most unanimous finding:
Women live under...and are socialized under...a SEXIST-based world order (a hieracrchy that values Male lives and considers females expendable)...and therefore, just like blacks living in a White Supremacist world order...WOMEN develop a very distinct self-loathing...or RATHER a hatred for ones own reflection.
Like blacks identifying "WE" with their master.....the female is apt to identify with the needs and feelings of males...but have little patience for her fellow powerless "females".
|
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
|
What are you trying to start now? Go welcome your new brotha on the thread below. You been looking for another man to back you up. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:19 pm: |
|
Yeah, ABM! Awwwwwwwwww Shaaaaaaaaddddddddddduuuup!! Gone wit dat! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 402
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:21 pm: |
|
But many WOMEN also HATE men, even though they seek validation and acceptance from them.
Back in my 20's when I was a "slut" (and very happy that way)...I truly hated men and had a good time using and exploiting them and taking advantage of my youthful bodacious body, which drove them crazy and made them do anything I wanted done.
Only through loving Thomas did I realize that I had hated men.
And be assured that MOST women who can sleep with several men in one week....can only do it because they HATE men (or place no value or worth in them). The men are just meatsticks with wallets (that's how I saw them).
The same goes for men who can sleep with 5 to 10 women in a single week. At their core...they place no value in women, so the women become MEAT.
|
Crystal
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 148
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:23 pm: |
|
Abm, if you instigate at home and other places as much as you do here then - you started it!
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 457
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:39 pm: |
|
Abm,
I think some women hate other women because they don't understand the powerful ability they have to govern their own lives. Women, as you mentioned, are highly equipped to handle life. However, we fight two things, the "ism's" of life and the undeniable force of nature within our own bodies--the ability to give life via our own life....our womb. We dislike that we are socialized to fight for the attention of men--we want our freedoms to do as we please, especially in regards to taking care of ourselves. However, denying that we need men will not pacify our desire to be a wife, that in turn, will allow us the opportunity to procreate in a healthy environment. They are two opposing forces that I find very difficult for the typical, modern-day woman to peacefully balance. Hence, the "hate" begins as we covet the unfulfilled dimensions of our being through women who seem to have discovered (or own) the balance we lack.
I think when a woman is at peace with the relational, material, emotional and spiritual choices she has made, it makes her better able to deal with women outside her experience. She is able to appreicate what she has, as well as her ability to determine her destiny.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 406
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:02 pm: |
|
But even with all that MOON....women tend to be "impatient" with other women, whereas with men they will force themselves to tune in.
Where exactly does that come from---is what I was addressing in agreement with the studies I've read.
Women can be as TOGETHER and as PEACEFUL and pleased with themselves as they want to be....and still find it hard to take the lives of other women "serious".
When faced with the problems of a fellow sister, they will admonish, "Look, get it together."
But when a man brings her his problems--now she must stop and analyze his situation, because he has VALUE and immediate worth, equal or higher to her own.
Of course, feminists and womanists are usually the OPPOSITE. They consciously seek to connect with and affirm other women, and often times have little patience for men.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 407
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
|
I think this is a VERY relevant and important question that ABM asked.
I do think that women are abusive, spiteful and un-loving, un-sympathetic to other women. And often have a general hatred for women.
For instance, one of my American Aunts is consistently nasty and evil to any girl her son tries to date. She says things like, "These bitches today ain't worth two cents."
Her other son beat up his wife and was arrested. My Aunt made all kinds of excuses why his wife deserved it and blamed everything on the wife. His wife is a very sweet girl!
But no matter what, my Aunt (who, like me, only has sons) has this constant low opinion of any woman..including me. "Oh, shut the fuck up Kola with your damn naked drunk ass!! Always telling somebody what to think. You ain't no better than the rest of these foul-ass black bitches out here."
She castigates white women even worse.
ALL WOMEN are trash.
|
Crystal
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 151
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:24 pm: |
|
On a very basic level, it’s due to the natural inclination to procreate. We are fighting to get the best mate we can so we can have the strong offspring that will survive. This is why you don’t find as much [notice I’m not saying you don’t find any, just not as much] fighting among older women. We don’t need a man for those purposes anymore. However, we do still need him for a strong family unit that can withstand the trauma all around us. So, the fight continues. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1102
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:28 pm: |
|
Plus, sometimes, its just plain old fun to verbally(or otherly haha!) slice and dice a bugaboo type chick that gets on ya last nerve.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1733
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:32 pm: |
|
Do women really hate each other? If they did, they wouldn't always accompany each other to the bathroom when they are out on double dates? Seriously, most females have a special bond with the girlfriends who they confide in and sympathize with and go shopping with. And they have each other's backs when they up in the club and some chick who ain't in their crowd tries to get smart. The women on this board go at it so much because we have not chosen to be friends, and it's so easy to write what you probably wouldn't say in person. There's a certain kind of fiendish power in being able to spew venom without suffering any consequences. Of course, when it comes to brothas, most sistas are extrememly jealous of each other. But I've alway repressed my jealousy, my thing being that as far as man was concrened, if you could get him, you could have him. |
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 61
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:42 pm: |
|
Hey, you only have to watch one episode of Girlfriends or hang around some of mine to know that even the best of friends will talk to each other this way sometimes. It is part of intimacy with other women.
BTW, where is ABM? He started this thread, then disappeared. Just like him to try to start a chick fight, then sit back and watch. Well, at least we're not obliging him. He must be so bored...LOL |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 411
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:46 pm: |
|
Cynique makes some VERY GOOD points. You, too, Lawchic.
Especially about ABM. Old nigga.
I got something for his behind, though.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1953
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 10:45 pm: |
|
Ladies,
Sorry to "hit and run". I usually haftah run errands and wrap things up at mid to late afternoon.
But back to what I am saying...
I really am not trying to incite trouble here. But we spend a lot of time discussing the evils men perpetrate against women (It's a wonder my scrotum is still intact.). I just thought maybe we should broaden the discussion to include how WOMEN undermined each other.
I have live a fairly long time, have known women of assorted shapes, colors and cultures. And one thing seems to prevail across all of your differences: And all-abiding resentment you have for each other.
My daughters fight ALLTHETIME. I know they love each other. And GOD help the MOFO who tries to say/do something to the other. But I'll be d*mn if I am not having to blare to those chicks to cut-it-out at least a 1/2 dozen times a day.
And when they aren't quarreling with each other, they are quarreling with my wife, and she them. And my wife does virtually the same with her mother and sisters and they with her.
And then I observe what goes on here:
I mean, the level of competition between you ladies around here (over even the most inane issues) borders on the insane.
Take this near endless squabble amongst A_womon, Cynique, Kola and Moonsigns. I am AMAZED by how you all have been able to keep this thing going for so long. Honestly, by now, if it were I, Lambd, Carey and Troy quarreling like you have, we would have all met up somewhere and killed each other.
A week or so ago I intentionally picked a fight with A_womon just see if she was blast me something good. But she hardly blow even a ringlet of smoke at me, much less the fireballs she hurl with rabid regularity at Cynique and Moonsigns.
First, I thought that she was just respecting my age. But by my math, Cynique could probably spot me a full score. Yet no age deference is conferred upon her. So I can only attribute the difference in treatment to sex/gender.
Even Cynique has gone lil' 'girl' on me as of late. Whenever I try to play ruff with her I get the impression she's going to run tell the school principal on me or something.
But let Kola or A_womon wag their rascally phat tails by, and Cynique starts spewing out the kind of goo that would make even an inebriated sailor blush.
And she's got her w*&&er roaddog Moonsigns ("Oh how I live to aggravate A_womon.") rollin' with her like a lynchmob.
But the only reason Moonsigns and Cynique are chummy is their mutual disdain for A_womon/Kola. That, plus they share some kooky obsession with the lunar cycles (and closeted-gay movie stars).
We also have Justwrite occasionally cat-clawing at Cynique and vice versa (BTW: Those skits that you and A_womon recently wrote were HILARIOUS. Hehe!)
Were it not for Kola/A_womon, Cynique and Moonsigns would be yelping over whether or not Bush is the devil (BTW: He's not. Cheney's Lucifer.)
And, of course, Kola and A_womon are basically looking to scrap with any chick that looks cross-eyed at'em (and that includes each other).
Yawl 2 crack me up cause you remind me of chicks that I grew up with in the hood. (Guys used to run scared of those chicks.)
So, yeah, even though Kola and Kathleen are all kissyface now (which I've gottah admit is turning me on something kinda awful.). But I don't care how much they slob each other down, Kola is still about 'that' close to calling Kathleen a lite-brite b@$%^ ANY moment now.
And the only reason Kola hasn't scrapped real hard with Lawchic is our resident litigator has cleverly played that cool-aloof-empathetic Jedi Mindtrick on Kola they teach foks like her in law school.
So when I see Kola wax on about how women should posse-up to wrestle control away from us guys, part of me wishes you would, part of me is scared $#*+less if/when you do, but then most of me is relieved that there's a snowballs chance in h*ll that it could ever really happen.
Because all it would take to dismantle some mighty consortium of womanistic Black females is to turn loose amongst you all a couple of Denzel and LL Cool J look-alikes (or ex-football players turned authors...hehe!). You all would instantly go from a blissful man-bashing frenzy to snatching out each other's hair extension as you fight to make googly eyes at the men.
Kola,
I got your "old nigga" right here. You longlegged African freakzoid you. |
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 71
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 10:55 pm: |
|
Whooo! ABM, that was something. Hahahha! I love you, brother! You should publish that! |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 423
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 11:10 pm: |
|
You didn't see me go googley eyed over Anthony.
If anything, I led him to believe that I was an old "motherly" type and pushed A_Womon in his direction.
I made it very clear to him that I'm the kind of black woman that "typica" American black men....do not like.....by immediately making very wild, stereotypical assumptions about "black athletes".
I can assure you that Anthony got NO vibe from me that I was either attractive or that he could possibly have a chance with me.
So you're not studying your Blow Up Doll, Mr. Man.
And also....I'm never ever just an inch from A_Womon's throat (she's like a daughter to me), nor do I ever think of calling Kathleen a "lite brite bitch", and Lawchic, your new girlfriend, and I have shared some very sisterly emails. I think she's wonderful.
So there.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1956
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 11:26 pm: |
|
Kola,
I did observe you seemed to distance yourself from Anthony. I guess I sort of chalked that up to some prior bad experience with a jock(s).
But I still think I know my way around my favorite sex toy.
Because if I recall correct, you and A_womon fought like alley cats when she first started posting here. Things got so bad that Thumper and I started going at it because I tried to encourage A_womon to listen to what you say in spite of your differences.
And I'm sorry. But I don't believe you can say about lightskinned people the things you say and not have an almost involuntary disdain for someone like Kathleen. I'm not saying you hate her. No. I think you truly love her (and she you). But I also think should Kathleen ever so much as appear to go Missy Anne on you you are going to bomb her like that shock&awe thing they did in Iraq about 1 1/2 year ago.
And look at you trynah be all jealous of Lawchic. But no need for dismay, Fay Rae. This King (Dong) Kong is free swinging only for thee. (Though I wouldn't mind seeing Lawchic's slip in out out of some of her...eh...'summary briefs'...hehe!) |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 425
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:28 am: |
|
Kola,
I did observe you seemed to distance yourself from Anthony. I guess I sort of chalked that up to some prior bad experience with a jock(s).
*********
No.
No bad experience with jocks. I've only had good freaky sex with them.
It's just that I'm old enough to know that there's NOTHING in athletes and musicians that can possibly interest me or benefit me. They're the WORST "man" material, as far as I'm concerned. Dick and lies is all you get.
A boy like Anthony would have to bring his brother with him in order to handle me in bed. I tell just by those pics of him that I'm way out of his fucking league. I'm a Top Of the Line PROFESSIONAL WHORE from the old school.
He's been fucking with cheerleaders and baby dolls, not Marta Hari and Nefertiti.
**********
And I'm sorry, KOLA. But I don't believe you can say about lightskinned people the things you say and not have an almost involuntary disdain for someone like Kathleen.
~~~
ABM, I will admitt to you that I OFTEN sit on my porch on this big ass lonely ranch at night and think about women like Kathleen and Lawchic and wonder how could they NOT know and SEE....what I know and see...and I cry about it, because for many BLACK black women....NO GAINS have been truly made against racism.
Just for Black Men and LightSkinned women has the revolution really come and even they're treated like shit--but they're less likely to be treated like shit by each other, as we are by them.
On another post, you made comments to Anthony about the "percentages" of black players and them not being represented in the "boss positions".
And I immediately thought....why don't "justice-minded" people like ABM ever notice that 90% of the "Black women" in America are medium brown to dark brown...and yet, in films, magazines and music videos, they're about 20%.....with the vast MINORITY...the MINORITY(the Kathleens, Lawchics, Cyniques) being overwhelming OVER-represented....and how blatantly colorist this is.....and then, it's like anything else. They aren't the ones being discriminated against, so they don't see what the problem is, they crave to be NORMAL just like I do--so they don't notice any disparity, and when they're forced to notice it, they tell themselves what they WANT TO HEAR to help them shake it from their minds--the fact that White Society and BLACK MEN wage war on the black man's mother (his REAL mother) by making her.....invisible.
So....yes....there are quiet, personal moments when I feel resentment and frustration that I don't have the power to make others care about women like me....and that I will probably die and leave this earth and things will pretty much be the same....but I honestly, truly do not feel "animosity" or "dislike" for any of those women. And YOU KNOW that whatever I really feel.....honey, EVERYONE would know it......because that's just the kind of person I am. I believe in CRYING IN PUBLIC and I am an exhibitionist.....but the real fact is, I LOVE what Kathleen and Lawchic and Cynique stand for and I LOVE their strength and vibrancy and above all....I do recognize that they are "black women". I feel that very strongly, and for that reason, I love them far more than any other feelings that come to my heart.
And don't forget--most black men consider me one of the "pretty, sexy desirable" Dark Women, and I've ALWAYS had a man...so there are many people, like on my book tour, who couldn't UNDERSTAND why I would care about those kind of "issues" so deeply. As if me having a man and being considered "desirable" gives me carte blanche not to give a shit about the millions of dark sisters who aren't---or who face this VERY REAL and very invasive brand of "colorism" that has literally changed the face and phenotype of American Black women since slavery ended.
But still, these issues DO NOT stop me from appreciating many, MANY lightskinned women---some of them my closest friends, are on my web site with me--because these women DO give me love, support and encourage me to vent to them.
And ABM.....as quiet as it's kept, I even have love for MOONSIGNS. And I hate to admitt that, because I don't want her to think I'm backsliding, but I have love for her....because she WANTS me to love her and accept her. So there is a part of me that is very receptive to any kind of NEED in people.
I am a very SAD, broken, damaged human being ABM. And I live, literally, by the grace of GOD. The pain in my vagina I have spoken of...but rarely the pain in my brain and my heart.
My teeth and my bones hurt me like headaches, because I am so broken and damaged EMOTIONALLY.
People read my books and ask, "How can you write like that?" It's because I live in constant emotional "psychotic" pain.
Don't they understand that I saw my parents killed in front of me? Do they think a child can EVER grow up and get over that?
And now I wish, so much, that I hadn't stayed with the bodies over night. Because that is how I received my imagination. From that night, when I could hear their blood going into the earth. I suddenly had an "imagination". And it's very..
And I know TOO MUCH.
Much of the vicious attacking you see me do...is mainly to make people AWARE of the rage and bitterness that they create in the world...simply by accepting the world the way it is.
That's why I tell people...don't accept it...REBEL.
Because although it's too late for Naima...it's not too late for the daughters of the future.
When YOU SEE me hurt someone, strike at someone...I'm just trying to set a new example for the MULES of the world....that we mustn't go down without loud screaming and fighting.
That it's IMPORTANT for our daughters to see us "REBELLING" and calling these women "bitches!" to their faces.
Otherwise, they'll never know that they have the power to go a new way.
I'm hyper-picky with the people on this board about our heritage and race...because that's what they NEED from me.
They just don't know it.
But I have lived in Africa...and I have lived in America, and I KNOW, that's what they NEED. Not what they want. But what they NEED.
From me.
I don't see myself living that long, and I just want to give...as an artist....what the people NEED.
And I pray for my sons to be OK. I know I've taught them how to make generations and where inside themselves to find answers and to find me.
There's little else I can do for them, but set them free now...to be who THEY want to be.
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 03:18 am: |
|
Naima peels back her own skin
with life-sharpened nails
and we peer inside
inside her
and exclaim
see, a huge heart
oh and innards
soft, open, vulnerable
and in her exposure
we are exposed
safe, selfish, cowardly
and still
she names us
sister
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1740
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 03:35 am: |
|
What are you running off at the mouth about, Abm? What you observe about the women on this board doesn't carry a lot of weight because you don't understand us. What erupts here are cat fights, a phenomenon peculiar to females, and men would do well to try and not explain them. Of course you are entitled to put your spin on the situation, but as far as I'm concerned, you are over-reacting and dramatizing things. It ain't that serious. You are also taking too many liberties with the word "hate." I may be argumentive and devilish but I don't hate anyone on this board. And the only time I get upset is if I'm misquoted, or when YOU overstep the ground rules and call me, or any other female up in here a "ho." To me, that's a no-no. BTW, I doubt very seriously if I'm 20 years older than you, ol gray-head. (And believe it or not, my hair is not actually gray. It's dark brown and I lighten it.)
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 03:47 am: |
|
ABM IS A COMEDIC GENIUS
comedic freakin' genius
|
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 08:19 am: |
|
Kola said: "And I immediately thought....why don't "justice-minded" people like ABM ever notice that 90% of the "Black women" in America are medium brown to dark brown...and yet, in films, magazines and music videos, they're about 20%.....with the vast MINORITY...the MINORITY(the Kathleens, Lawchics, Cyniques) being overwhelming OVER-represented....and how blatantly colorist this is.....and then, it's like anything else. They aren't the ones being discriminated against, so they don't see what the problem is, they crave to be NORMAL just like I do--so they don't notice any disparity, and when they're forced to notice it, they tell themselves what they WANT TO HEAR to help them shake it from their minds--the fact that White Society and BLACK MEN wage war on the black man's mother (his REAL mother) by making her.....invisible."
For the record, I do agree that white people tend to treat light skinned and dark skinned black people differently. It is clear to me that white people are more comfortable around lighter-skinned black people.
So, I'm not trying to "shake it from my mind." It is something that I think only time and interaction will cure. White people clearly are not comfortable with us. They believe the stereotypes that they see in the media. And the darker you are, the more hypervigilant they are around you. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 752
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:43 am: |
|
Abm:
You have answered your own question. #1 they do and always have run the world through men--they can get all the benefits of being in charge without taking any of the hits or getting any of the negativity--pretty smart, don't you think?
#2 They are smart enough to know there ain't no working together, there is chiefs and Indians and no in between--what would Theresa Heinze Kerry have to work with a bunch of other women about with all her money, other women who would try to slip in and bust up her good thang? What does Oprah need with a bunch of women around her unless they got as much cash as she got--they'd always be hitting her up for loans? What did Laura Bush need a bunch of women for except to vote for Dubya and give him some campaign contributions or get the heck up out of her face?
I hate to have to go back to the Abm household again, but you forced me. Them three women got you flipping like a flag on a pole (I have been in all female households--it is their way or the highway--
Cuzz here is where they are at their smartest--when they letting you THINK you in charge.
See how they got you tripping. One of these women is probably on the horn to Ms. Abm right now, dropping dime. She gonna fix you and, not only will you not know you been fixed, you gonna say thank you mama do it again and please don't stop.
Wake up before its too late, my brother! |
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
|
oooohh! The hate! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 754
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:13 am: |
|
Lawchic:
And y'all leading poor Abm on, letting him puff out his chest and all.
Ya'll supposed to be his homies. Put him straight before the Abm women tear his playhouse down. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1743
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
|
Since Abm, feels free to use the broad brush of his distorted imagination to paint the female landscape on Thumper's Corner, I will return the favor and capture him in one snapshot: A peripatic blowhard who crops up in every thread spouting a spray of verbiage that alternates between pomposity and lechery. (Of course, we wouldn't have it any other way, would we ladies? And was I redundant, or what? ) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
|
Cynique,
See. There you go again trynah make me blush.
I’m telling you. One day I am going to haftah hook up with you just so I can smack you on the @$$ and make you call me ‘daddy’. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1964
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
|
Chris,
Indeed you may be right. What you say reminds me of a great line from the Honeymooners:
Alice says: "You men just think that you own this world!"
Ralph says: "Yeah. But you women get revenge...you marry us!"
But then if what you say is true, why can't we get them to stop complaining/catfighting so much? (for Jiminy Crickets Sake!)
You are wrong about one thing, though: I have NEVER had any delusions about being the boss of my household. I turned-in that fantasy along with my one about being the sole paid male loveslave for the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority.
Kathleen,
Thanks! Though, really you are too generous.
Because I am HARDLY a "comedian". I just like to mess around.
Lambd, on the otherhand, is laughriot. I am just mostly trynah fill in for him ‘til he get back from attending his annual Middle-Age Male Strippers convention (When he returns, be sure to ask to see his pictures.).
And I agree with Thomas Edison: ""Genius" is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." And believe-you-me, I’ve NEVER worked hard enough to earn that honor. Well, I have worked hard at ONE thing...avoiding working hard.
But, now when you mention "freakin’", well then, you may have something there, Goldie. Because if there’s ANYTHING I am especially astute at, it’s "freakin’" (Right Lawchic? <wink!>).
Cynique,
Which "hair" are you coloring: The 'drapes' or the 'carpeting'?
Kola,
If you were a guy, I would loathe you so much that I’d probably fly out to LA and punch you in the face. Because you are so skilled with the pen that you make me feel like an illiterate, lazy@$$ numbnut.
I figured a former "I get-around" kinda gal like yourself might have wrapped her succulent East African legs around her share of pro-jocks.
I know you love other women of all kinds (which, I pray, someday you let me watch), even though you differ with them. I was just noting that your feelings are so raw/accessible to you that you likely would (as you often do) shoot from the hip with a caustic rebuttal of Kathleen, even if you (as you often do) regret it later.
But I sincerely concur with you that there’s a worldwide color caste system of varying dimensions/varieties and those who reside on sweet end of the system seldom understand/appreciate what those on the sour end are made to endure.
And enough of that fatalist talk, Chocolate Thunda. You have survived for a purpose, a proud assignment that has only just begun. So I sincerely hope you find some way to relax and heal...and genuinely smile. Because you won’t be able to help all those darkskinned sisters (or "mules") out there...after you have dropped dead.
PS: "Fellahs? Don’t it take a special chick to cop to being a "Top of the Line PROFESSIONAL WHORE from the old School.". Honestly, that caliber of candor and confidence almost make my eyes (and mouth) water. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 458
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:39 pm: |
|
Kola,
Abm mentioned all the reasons why women are incredible. I think that when women relate to other women, not only can we be brutally honest because we understand how one another's minds work, but we urge other woman (if we are strong ourselves) to heal themselves from the resources that are already within. I firmly believe that each woman has what it takes within her to either heal/love herself, or hate herself. Our strong girlfriends/sisters are the ones who help us to seek that place within where all our answers are. That is why I feel we tend to have that, "Get it together attitude." Unlike men, when all is said and done, no one else will do it for us and we know this.
I think that we treat men differently because we are designed to procreate with them, as well as be their "other half". We aren't designed to do this with other women. When it's in harmony, we fulfill them and they fulfill us--it's natural. Both sexes have responsibilities. Men are to honor, affirm, protect and provide. I don't suggest women just "tune" into any man either. However, in regards to a husband/wife relationship, if the man has proved himself by his actions (to do all the above), his wife's undivided attention belongs to him before it belongs to any one of her female friends. Just like women need a man's honor, affirmation, protection and provision, men need our intuition, intelligence, generousity, and LOVE. It's very spiritual. Men and women have energies that compliment one another IF they are both willing to submit to the strengths of the person they are with. My girlfriends can support me in many ways and I know that I am well equipped to handle life and taking care of my human necessities. However, I don't front like I can handle all this work on my own, especially when it comes to childrearing and provision. I need my husband in ways that NO woman could provide--from the spiritual to the physical....and my desire for him is only natural. Therefore, I will tune into him more than I will any woman.
This is another topic, however, I must share my feelings. I believe that many of the social ills we have today are caused by an unwillingness to compromise and submit to the strengths of the opposite sex. This goes for both males and females....and since I'm a female I'll share this as well. I feel many females have misconceptions about their sexuality. They view "sleeping around" as liberating.... and use the tired excuse that they are empowered. I feel what this "playing house" syndrome has created, at the hands of females nevertheless, is a culture that exploits the true strength and beauty of the female energy/principle.
|
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 755
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 03:57 pm: |
|
Talk about work I seen women work! They work together on the important things. In fact if they could do everything the way they can scheme on a man I don't know where we poor men would be--
Friend of mine was in the service stationed overseas in the Phillipines. Met him this Phillipine woman. She was submissive. Timid. Everything to please.
He figured he would beat the game and marry her bring her over here.
All was well until she met her sisters-in-law. They straightened her out.
Six months later I was at their house as a guest. "Dear, would you get us a beer?" he asked sweetly.
"Get it yourself, mfer" she said, snatching up the car keys and heading for the door.
"What do you think about that?" he asked. You know your boy. Strong. Tough. Macho. I came back strong. I leaned back, looked him dead in the eye and said--
"I ain't in it." |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 04:33 pm: |
|
Ladies,
I agree that part of what occurs between female is to compete for the prized male. And I agree that men often ruthlessly play to your rival inclinations.
But, I mean, my daughters will literally ‘fight’ over who gets to sit in my lap. Honestly, I don’t in anyway encourage them to treat each other that way.
Yawl know I like to mess with yawl. But truly do love and adore Black women. You are the true Mother Earth. And I (begrudgely) agree with Kola that the salvation of Black people will likely be achieved via the lead of Black women.
But how can yawl do that if you hate on each other so much?
Moonsigns,
As you know, a woman, as wonderful a creation as you may be, is not a self-sufficient island.
You require tending, affirmation and love like everyone and everything else. And no amount of healing "from within" can supplant that.
So when Kola decries the color-coded unfairness of the world, what she is saying is that certain women are not going to get as much of what they need to survive and thrive, no matter how earnestly they desire and try.
I don’t know what to say to you. Because you have a perspective that is, though somewhat ennobled, is inherently flawed in myriad other respects.
You talk about how Black women should assess and indulge their relationships with Black men when to many sisters the mere notion of such, beyond an occasional romp in the boudoir, grows ever more foreign.
And until you see/accept that, you will continue to be confronted by Black women (like Kola and A_womon) who will delight in spitting upon your shoes.
But I agree that too much "sleeping around" tears a woman body, mind and spirit down.
Chris,
That's what your friend gets for thinking he can 'buy' some undying sense of obligation from a vulnerable woman. A real man knows how to woe a woman into wanting to cater to him, not try to coerce her into doing such. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1746
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 05:39 pm: |
|
Chris, and Abm, you know women weren't actually made from Adam's rib. They are another species, and their function on earth is to vex and mystify and tempt the male animal. Possessing survival skills that stem from their being able to blend in with their surroundings, these feminine predators are able to stalk unseen the prey which they will catch and toy with. But, in order to perpetuate a higher form of life, Nature has endowed men with the brawn that eventually overcomes the brains of women. In the end, it all balances out.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 459
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 05:43 pm: |
|
Abm,
Let's explore this. If black men and black women still date/intermarry primarily within their own race and you agree with this, then this "color-coded unfairness of the world" does not really seem to be applicable. What I think has happened within American culture, all races/colors included, is the very thing I said at the end of my previous post.
While I know interracial marriage has increased within the last 20-30 years, it is not a substantial cause for black women losing potential mates. In my opinion, what has plagued all other races has also plagued blacks, and that is the feminist propaganda that men are evil. This has reflected itself differently within each race, however the end result is still destructive. Women were right to seek their rights, but the manner in which they did it backfired on them--hence, look at where we are collectively. Unfortunately, the youth are suffering for men and women falling away from their natural roles. Women have fallen away as a whole, from requiring men to respect them--and it is the ladylike respect that a woman shouldn't have to demand However, because women are so quick to give all of herself, like you said, it "tears" her body, mind and spirit down. Well, we are pretty worn down, wouldn't you say? Women are refusing to use discretion in how they deal with men, period.
Ultimately, especially in America, women have too many resources not to call the shots--in a way that would be productive for the entire society. We are selling ourselves out and then screaming there are no good men. When women return to ways that honor themselves, because of our incredible ability to influence, then I think society will begin to change.
The race/color thing (to me) is absolutely irrelevant, as black men still seek black women. Using color/race is just a scapegoat to deal with the real issue, which is personal responsibility---and all women are having problems with this---proof is EVERYWHERE----turn on the tv, surf the net, go to any store and check out the magazines--we sell out too much.
BTW, I was raised in a community where not only did I OBEY my parents, but also the other parents within the community. Nobody beat me or anything, but I respected their authority. My upbringing was very "old school", and I feel many of you here were raised the same way--so my traditional values regarding this matter have nothing to do with race. Though our country and world still has much progress to make in regards to racial equality, why is it that (generally) we all have "more" than those before us, yet our society is in a downward spiral? I think at the core of that is values--they are gone and it is infecting every race/color of people.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 460
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 05:47 pm: |
|
Abm,
In regards to A_womon, this is about repsonsibility, not blame.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 433
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 06:28 pm: |
|
MOONSIGNS,
the "color-coding" is the PRACTICE of black men choosing only the LIGHTEST SKINNED brides (and the fact that Prison/Drugs/Gay life/Player lifestyle/Interracial unions creates a situation where black women outnumber black males 8 to 1)....and the men in America have ALWAYS married LIGHT when possible.....leaving a disproportionate number of dark ebony "good wife material" on the roadside, often because of nothing else but...(1) I really like you, but you're too dark for us to be married (Millions of dark skinned women in this country have been told this at least once by the age of 21)...2) I want my kids to be lighter than me and not suffer with my hair.
You might noticed that I mated with a very gorgeous dark skinned black man, but he was from Central America and pure blooded Garifuna--raised in a culture where DARK BLACK women are "normal" and considered "prized beauties".
Again, as ABM SAID...you seem terribly "ennobling and arrogant".
You should read a simple book called "The Color Complex". If for no other reason than to understand what your own "mixed" children will encounter as "yellow black people" in an ever-increasing COLORIST community, especially now that the "Bi-Racial People" are starting their own group.
Then you will understand the fact that Black Americans MOST OFTEN judge each other at dances, clubs, social events......by hair texture and skin color.....with the ONUS going on the dark skinned black female.
If this was 1967, your husband would more likely be married to a HIGH YELLOW woman with wavy hair....and she would not be aware that she is just a "stand-in" for the white woman who could have brought even MORE status.
A woman with dark black skin and nappy hair and West African facial features---no matter how beautiful she would be considered in Africa---is the VERY LOWEST on the "color code" of STATUS FEATURES.
You should also read Marita Golden's new book "Don't Play In the Sun".
THEN...you will begin to have a far greater intellectual AND REALISTIC understanding of the "color" problem for BLack Women.
Interracial marriage is just the worst aspect of the ongoing COLOR CODING in Black People's dating and marrying patterns, which is a DIRECT result of SLAVERY.
That's bullshit about it existing in ancient Africa. The ARAB INVADERS brought the shit to Africa 1,000 years ago...in those few areas where "lightskinned" women held as SUPERIOR to pure African women.
African men have ALWAYS loved nothing more than the darkest chocolate women with nubesque bodies and giant smiles. And the continental symbol of African femininity (even in Egypt) has always been....the baldheaded female. Only since SLAVERY and COLONIALISM has this new fixxation on WHITENESS and European cultural superiority become ingrained in Black People.
But thanks to the MEDIA, it's becoming worldwide.
And destroying many age old cultures and casting an entire continent of people as "ugly".
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 434
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 06:34 pm: |
|
MOON...
haven't you ever walked into a room full of black people and noticed that MOST of the men were very chocolate with negroid hair...
...and that MOST of the women were lightskinned with slick, wavy hair---or if brown, Tea Brown with skinny features--not Dark Chocolate with Queen of Sheba's Nubianesque features?
And have you not sight enough to see that this is the RULE in black media???
Have you not noticed that the MEN can be as black as they want to be.....but the women usually don't look ANYTHING like the men's mothers or they're even Bi-racial nowadays.
Have you not noticed the T.V. sitcom families and the T.V. Commercials where the black dad and yellow mother have a "dark" son and a "bi-racial" daughter??
|
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 756
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:35 pm: |
|
Abm:
And while your daughters are "fighting" over who sits in your lap (a show just as scripted as WWE wrestling-- "Okay. You want to stay out late so you let me win and then you start crying and then the old softhearted sap will give in and then I'll start in and I can get that Britney Spears outfit I want") you are sitting there lapping it all up--
Don't try to think now you know this you can outscheme them. Just go along with the flow.
Lap it! Lap it brother! It shows they do love you--else they could be scheming you right into the nuthouse or the old folks home.
I got a cousin told me he beat his wife. Once. He said when he did he had his bags packed and a plane ticket in his pocket.
He fled to L.A. A few nights later he went out. When he came back to his room, all his clothes were gone. Shortly thereafter he got a call.
His wife said she had his clothes and he could come back and get them (she was calling from the East Coast--yep she had tracked him to L.A., came out, stole his clothes, left town with them, got them and called back
You think he went back? Haw! He said he wouldn't have lived to tell me the story.
Don't believe the hype! Wise him up, ladies! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 461
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:17 pm: |
|
Kola,
I will definitely look into the books you recommended.
As far as my children, they have already encountered both positive and negative issues regarding their color. Thankfully, they seem to have gotten through the negative situations with grace. But I have to say, the positive affirmation they receive far outweighs the negative attempts to insult them. Now, you may say that is solely based on their color, but I say it's just because they are nice, as well as attractive. They just are and that's it. The problem that I think many biracial/multiracial people endure is that they truly are attractive, not that any other pure race/color individual isn't, but somehow, if a biracial person shows appreciation and any ounce of self-esteem, they are automatically accused of thinking they are better. As there are no absolutes in life, that is not just.
Kola, with all due respect, you don't know my husband so you really can't say who he'd be married to. What I think you don't want to accept is that he isn't married to me because he's colorstruck, as you'd like to believe. With the exception of a woman being fit, having straight, clean teeth and good hygiene (LOL), he has NO other physical preferences regarding a woman's appearance and that is one of the qualities that I LOVE about him. He has never made a crooked, negative comment about the skin color, hair or facial features (in general) of another woman.
May I ask, when was the last time you went to Africa?
I work with many Africans who are from various parts of the continent. I have had the most interesting time asking them all sorts of questions. Interestingly enough, the group of people that I have found who hold many of your same views are those from Uganda. The people from Sierra Leone, Cameroun, Congo, and Nigeria seem to have incredibly differing views than you have about Africa (both male and female). Set aside from the fact that people are individuals, and Africa, like the US, is different from place to place, what do you, as an African, attribute such contrasting views to? Because to me, some of the things you say about certain topics, especially Africa, are so very general and broad. I'm just curious.
You wrote that African men have loved nothing more than the darkest, chocolate women. You consider Thomas's affinity for you to be "normal", as your dark beauty to him, is "prized". Considering that, wouldn't you say that his feelings for you are large in part, due to only culture because of where you are both from? Would it be fair to say that white women, or any other non-African, "pale" woman would be considered "ugly" by African standards as they aren't bald-headed, "dark chocolate" and lack the Nubesque body?
While I will say that a lot of the black women portrayed in the media tend to be lighter, I think that most women are thin, regardless of race/color.
Because of where I'm from, no, I don't notice that most men are "dark" and the women are "light" with "wavy-hair". It's so, so diverse where I'm from and the couplings vary greatly. What I do notice when I walk into a place is that again, there are no absolutes. I just can't relate, sorry.
About the t.v. stuff, I don't watch enough to pay attention like that. What I do like though the natural health field is definitely beginning to act on equal representation for all people and I'm diggin it (magazines, health food ads, exercise DVD's).
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 440
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:37 pm: |
|
MOON SAID:
May I ask, when was the last time you went to Africa?
I work with many Africans who are from various parts of the continent. I have had the most interesting time asking them all sorts of questions. Interestingly enough, the group of people that I have found who hold many of your same views are those from Uganda. The people from Sierra Leone, Cameroun, Congo, and Nigeria seem to have incredibly differing views than you have about Africa (both male and female). Set aside from the fact that people are individuals, and Africa, like the US, is different from place to place, what do you, as an African, attribute such contrasting views to? Because to me, some of the things you say about certain topics, especially Africa, are so very general and broad. I'm just curious.
*******
Actually, MOON...there are people in UGANDA who would not agree with MY VIEWS and there are people from NIGERIA (such as Chinweizu) whose views are far more incendiary--Chinweizu is a total separatist.
The famous Pro-Black Scholar Dr. Ben is from Sierra Leone.
In speaking with these African aquaintances...Perhaps you might question the STATUS of the African who can afford, as an adult, to come to the United States. Are they from the upper class...or from the MASSES of the nation's majority?
Being that you're WHITE...I seriously doubt that ANY of those African "friends" would TRULY be open and forthcoming to you about their REAL THOUGHTS regarding anything. And I'm certain that they're impressed by your whiteness and their close PROXIMITY to you.
So make sure you factor "everything"....because in KOLA, you've found an unusual "human being" who is BRUTALLY honest to all people about everything. Few HUMANS speak as openly as I do.
**********
ANd by the way MOON...when are you going to ask you husband about "brown'n" and what that term means in HIS COUNTRY of origin.
You seem to keep inferring that these "color" issues are not serious.
I would like to hear FROM YOU about "brown'n" and why it's such an epidemic in the West Indies now.
*********
You live in such insulting DENIAL, Moon. So I can't wait for your children, when they begin dating, to bring the RANK REALITY of these issues to your attention---and of course after you read the books I've suggested, you will find your eyes and mind opened even wider.
And there is NO WAY that you will ever convince me that a black man from the WEST INDIES (a business owner) who was outnumbered in the U.S. by black women 8 to 1......only married a WHITE WOMAN because she was a thin "nice" person with nice teeth and the right personality.
That's utter BULLSHIT, and you might as well brace yourself NOW....because before your kids reach 25.....ALL your illusions will be shattered.
And no matter what you say....EVERYBODY on this board, in the back of their minds....believe the same damn thing.
We are BLACK people here--we weren't born yesterday from some black and white SHIRLEY TEMPLE movie.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 441
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:38 pm: |
|
"....because in KOLA, you've found an unusual "human being" who is BRUTALLY honest to all people about everything. Few HUMANS speak as openly as I do.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 442
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:47 pm: |
|
And quite honestly, MOON....
since so many High Yellow, lite brite Light Skinned Black women are in such denial about the issue themselves.....and just can't bring themselves to see the reality of the world around them.....
....it shouldn't surprise me that a WHITE woman would be just as short-sighted, tunnel visioned and insensitive as those yellow skinned imitations of her.
But that's what my work is about.
Making sure that the day comes when you CAN'T stick your head in the sand and deny the truth.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 443
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:48 pm: |
|
Because I'm a black woman....the likes of which you and the Americans have NEVER known.
And it's about goddamned time.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 462
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:33 pm: |
|
Kola,
Why didn't you answer my questions about the "normal" standards of beauty in Africa?
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1971
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
|
Moonsigns,
Really. If you believe the "color-coded unfairness of the world" is not made manifest in what is made available to Blacks everywhere, then, I probably should stop chatting with you.
I won't pretend to know anything about you, your husband, kids or your friends/neighbors (though I suspect some of Kola's sobering predictions for all of you will come true.).
But I agree with Kola that in the media, the Black male figure is almost always several shades darker than his female partner. If you have not observed that, it is because you are aren't looking.
However, unlike you/Kola, I don't view this issue primarily via the prism of interracial coupling/marriage.
My viewpoint is broader than that.
Simply, if Black me are dying off and being incarcerated at exorbinant rates, it does not really matter what proportion of them prefer White women. Because virtually all Black women will be made to suffer regardless.
And while I agree with you that the loosening morality has caused women problems, I must also consider that some of the immorality is due to some women being compelled to indulge whatever modicum of male intimacy that is made available to them or live very lonesome lives.
Because if you were born/bred within a community where few if any women are asked to marry, your expectation of such will be considerably less than it might otherwise be.
If sistahs are REALLY interested in improving their lot with brothahs, they would ensure that brothahs are being gainfully educated and trained and protected from unfair criminal conviction/incarceration. And women should teach their daughters that a boy who reads a lot will likely make a better lover/husband than one who doesn't.
PS: You past is just that...the past. We live in a troubled present and tumble towards a murky future. So rather than wax rhapsodically (and often inaccurately) about yesterday, let us do what is required for our children and their children to thrive. And part of that requires we see, accept and tell the truth...then do right by that. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1749
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:29 am: |
|
Just curious. Why has the light-skinned black male been relegated into invisiblity in this discussion? Constant reference is made to the dark-skinned male and light-skinned female paradigm. But that combination is just one facet of the AA prism. You cannot ignore the ramifications of the entire color spectrum. Couldn't you also consider that a dark-skinned woman may be looking to mate with a light-skinned man in order to spare her children the color discrimination she has been victimized by? BTW, I have heard many light-skinned males complain of being rejected because of their color. This is such a complicated issue and so unique to the individual that no definite conclusions can be drawn or any possibilites ignored. We are dealing with a situation that is rife with variables. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 463
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 12:32 am: |
|
Kola,
When was the last time you were in Africa? You never answered that. You say that there are actually "more" people in Uganda who would disagree with your views. I have met people who say/share otherwise. Again, what does this prove? Kola, there are no absolutes.
You're right in that some Africans may not want to share their "inner heart", but I firmly believe that I have encountered some that have--and it's not because I'm white and they want to be around me for that reason. Not everything is about color/race, though you don't want to believe that.
No one walking this earth can give a definite answer as to why people do what they do, especially when it comes to marriage. You are an elitist. If you weren't, you wouldn't suggest that my whiteness is the only reason my husband married me--as if that is the sum of my entire being and worth to him. Love, trust and respect that has lasted over a decade screams of something deeper than just the mere physical. You say I live in such "insulting denial", well Kola, so do you. The one thing you are fighting for, your humaness, is the one thing you constantly deny others if they don't think like you--like everyone else is a self-hating, colorstruck, loveless person if they don't adhere to your ideology regarding love, procreation and life in general. As much as you fight it, not all blacks think like you and never will.
About the kids, say what you like. Biracial children have the human right to love, appreciate and honor the skin they are in--just like EVERYONE else on this planet. You say my illusions will be shattered, you may be right, but there is a strong possibility that you'll be wrong.
Since creating them, our entire lives have been spent to benefit, nurture, and strengthen theirs. We introduce them to experiences that not only develop them intellectually, but nurture them emotionally and spiritually. These are not things that parents do who are insensitive, tunnel-visioned and short-sighted.
I'd like to know where you heard the term "brown'n"? Was it from an article on the net, or from a handful of West Indian friends? When was the last time you went to the West Indies, or actually spoke with all the people who live there? First of all, we have family/friends that travel between all the time and have yet to hear of this. Furthermore, none of these folks are as colorstruck as you--and not all of them are "light" either. Color is just not the issue to them, that it is for you (even the darker skin people we know).
My point to you, reality is relative.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1974
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:01 am: |
|
Cynique,
One of my best friends has 2 (adopted) very lightskinned teenaged biracial sons. Their next door neighbors are a mixed couple (though, ironically, the man is White and the woman Black) who have 2 biracial sons, who look like and are friends with my friends' kids.
And the girls - Black, White, Asian, Hispanic...Hell, Eskimo even - are crawling around them like locust at a Fourth of July Holiday picnic.
The girls are so aggressive that both my friends and their neighbors complain about girls calling their homes as late (or early) as 2:00 am. They follow them around wherever the boys go. Offer to pay for dates. Pass sleazy sexual offers to them.
And one even tried to lure all 4 boys into a gang-bang.
And when I was college, you could virtually predict how affluent and pretty the woman was by how lightskinned her boyfriend was.
Lightskinned Black men are not wanting for dates/wives.
Yes. Some women 'claim' to like darker brothahs. And some actually do prefer their coffee a tad blacker. But I have NEVER known a lightskinned brothah who looked human to be especially hard-up for women.
And I don't know if you realize it or not, but your mentioning sistahs actively seeking to mate with lightskinned Black men only reinforces, not challenges, the overall "colorist" argument that Kola is making.
Yes some sistah will seek to "whiten" their bloodline if they feels their kids will score a favorable position within the color hierarchy, especially if they themselves suffered within it. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1975
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:44 am: |
|
Moonsigns,
I find it interesting that you require Kola to provide detail about Africa yet fail to do so yourself.
Kola has been FAR more detailed about what she thinks/knows about Africa (and myriad subjects) than you, myself or anyone else has around here (In fact, she might have the most clearly detailed-oriented mind of anyone I know.). Thus, I find it disingenuous of you to ask her about when she was 'last' in Africa, as if all of the countries of African have undergone wholesale cultural changes over the last 5, 10 or 15 years Kola was last there.
And you say you have witnessed Africans express sentiment and behavior that differed from what Kola recounts. Yet you yourself provide no detail to the contrary.
Do I believe EVERYTHING Kola says about Africa in every respect? No. Not because I think she lie. But because her perspective is circumscribed via her human limitations, (though her talents indeed be prodigious).
Still, I would match her views - which, BTW, ARE consistent with some of what I have observed - against those of yours all day long (and 3 times on Sunday).
And surely Kola can be a bit hyperbolic. But what artist, especially one as talented/emotional as Kola, isn't a bit extreme/absolute in their delivery?
Her declaring EVERY Ugandan thinks/does something doesn't mean to me that EVERY living Ugandan thinks such. That simply means what she recounts is a popular refrain amongst those Ugandans she know and/or have studied.
And I agree no one can know for certain why one person falls in love with another. But as long as the color-caste system exist, mixed couplings will be viewed on all sides with a bit of suspicion at best and revulsion at worst.
So what Kola does here is as much a service as it is a criticism of you. Because if it hasn't already occured, much of what Kola expresses here WILL be visted upon your children. And you won't be able to stop it.
And some realities are more or less real and/or "relative" to those of others. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 446
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:08 am: |
|
It's even racist to suggest that AFRICA and AFRICANS are some homogenized place or people.....all being of the same mind or the same opinions.
However, as Leopold Senghor wrote---"Negritude is real".
MOON should read about that subject.
AND MOON....due to the fact that I am still not totally free of State Department clairvoyance in my life (and have been under protection for more than 3 years)....I cannot state on a public board when was the last time I was in Africa.
ABM....I never declared anything about EVERY Ugandan. You should read. I said that there are some Ugandans (contrary to what MOON stated) who would not agree with my philosphies, opinions...there are Africans in EVERY nation who would both agree and DIS-agree with me.
But still....SO WHAT.
Does that change my right to have my opinion and to use MY voice and work accordingly???
And by the way, ABM...thanks so much for having my back and for making "common sense" items more clear to knit-pickers.
*******
MOON, the bottom line is that I AM an African woman----one of the few on earth who isn't invisible or without a voice----and therefore, whether you like it or not, MY CREED and DECREE is being committed to public record and will no doubt become part of the "argument" for decades to come a myriad of issues...including the ones that are personal to you.
Strangely enough....I have noticed that MOST of the African women writers (from Buchi Emecheta to Nawal El Sadawii to mixed race Bessie Head to all the new upcomers) share almost the exact SAME views and feelings....that I do. And Chinua Achebe and Nobel Prize Winner Wole Soyinka are not that far from the feast, either.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 447
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:13 am: |
|
Cynique---
I actually have several times talked about the colorist notion that lightskinned males aren't considered as "manly" or "thuggish" as Dark black men...and often rejected by black women.....and also spoken about the way they are shut out of films, t.v. and Print Ads because---"they're not CONVINCING as black men", according to Hollywood.
As for Dating, you need to read Marita Golden's new book "Don't Play In the Sun".....because it shows that while there are some "yellow" brothers who like dark skinned girls......the majority of ALL BLACK MEN seek women who are "prized" by the SOCIETY and who possess STATUS. And lightskinned black men ALSO tend to marry lightskinned wives or marry OUT, according to statistics.
You should read "Don't Play In the Sun", Cynique.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 448
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:23 am: |
|
ABM:
"brown'n" is a very popular term used in the West Indies for a NEW phenomenon that is sweeping countries like Jamaica, the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Aruba, Barbados.
TEENAGE GIRLS and YOUNG WOMEN in all of these countries have taken to the practice of using "skin lightening creams"....to whiten their skin (what they call "brown'n").....to the point that it is causing a HEALTH crisis on these islands.
To find out exactly WHY these women say it's so important to LIGHTEN UP....just search GOOGLE (type in: Brown'n Skin Whiteners) and read the articles yourself.
YET Moon, whose man is from the West Indies, claims that there is NO WAY her being WHITE has anything to do with why her husband married her...and that he can't POSSIBLY harbor any prejudices against women of his own race and background. He's too good of a man to do that.
YET "millions" of West Indian women are burning their flesh off....to aquire lighter skin tones.
What makes women and girls do that? I guess it's just the FACT that whiteness and yellowness is just "naturally" more valuable and beautiful, and thus---the poor black women of the world can't help themselves, right MOON?
MOON has a lot to learn about "color" and BLACK SOCIETY.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1976
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:44 am: |
|
Kola,
I apologize for mischaracterizing what you said.
Yes, I am familiar with this "brownin'" phenomenon that is occurring in the West Indies (and thru much of Africa). And I consider it proof of the problems that you describe.
Whether you can convince 'others' here to recognize and care about what's going is (obviously) another matter. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1111
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 09:47 am: |
|
Kola,
You sure have provided some great information for those reading these threads. If nothing else, it will cause some people to research the things you have said.
I wonder if any of them will conclude that due to the fact that the person on this board who is supposedly married to a "west indian" could not provide the answer posed to her and may herself live in an alternate reality, and find it equally strange that her "husband" could provide no answer to a question that he has to know any smart 6 year old could run a search online and find the answer to.Not that he , being a west indian would need to perform such a search. hmmmmmmmm makes you wonder. And none of his FAMILY ever heard of the term either. curiouser and curiouser.... |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 464
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
|
Abm,
My whole point to Kola is not to question what she has experienced in Africa, or say that what she says is a lie. I think her experiences are fascinating, but nevertheless, not everyone has experienced life the way she has, nor does everyone think like her. It is to show her that reality is relative. For every person out there who is lightening their skin, there is a person who is not and thinking the entire concept is crazy! There are no boxes in life, sorry. People are people.
In regards to my husband. He is an American citizen, however, because of the influences of his parents, some of the cultural/traditional practices of the West Indies are a vital part of our lives and home--"brown'n" isn't one of them. His people and friends are very, very proud to be brown/black. We don't start dissecting one another based on color, and it is a colorful group of people to say the least. We just live--it's the human thing to do.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 465
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:43 am: |
|
Kola,
Please answer my question about the "normal" standard of beauty in Africa. Thanks. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1988
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:19 pm: |
|
Moonsigns,
Of course we all differ and do different things, buy when you tally up all of our actions/behavior, you can make some reasonable assumptions about who we are, what we are doing and why we are doing it.
I guess that is what Kola is doing.
Now, if you have substantial evidence that refutes what she asserts, please share it.
But I have to tell you that there are A GLUT of Black women throughout the world who are engaged in high-risk behavior to appear more 'White'. One does not have to have performed an international study or have a Ph.d in sociology from Princeton to become acquainted with that phenomenon. Because evidence of what's going on abounds.
I was aware of it before Kola had mentioned it here.
And what ""normal" standard of beauty" might you expect Kola to describe of a continent of a billion people who are more diversely designed than all of Europe?
I think the only remotely reasonable answer to your question would be a "standard" that does not cause one to harm or grossly distort one's basic person and appearance. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 454
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:30 pm: |
|
MOON....
I am just can't discuss this with you further.
Because of the rage you incite inside me.
I want peace and calm in my body this weekend---and I take comfort in the fact that MY VOICE will be eventually heard by millions...and that I KNOW what to say and how to say it well.
By the way, don't purchase/read my autobiography--because the book will make a woman like you squirm, literally.
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 466
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:52 pm: |
|
Abm,
Go back and read Kola's description of what is considered the "normal" standard of beauty in Africa--the "prized beauty" the has always been the desire of African men. Though you say Africa is "more diversely designed than all of Europe", her comments regarding the type of beauty that is sought, IS exclusive and precise. Compared to your beliefs regarding the diversity in Africa, it seems that Kola's assesment of what is considered beautiful, as well as sought out by African men would leave a lot of women "out" who don't fit this "standard".
|
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 467
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:11 pm: |
|
Kola,
That's fine.
I have no plans to purchase any of your work. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 704
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 03:05 pm: |
|
Whooooooa! |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 705
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 03:05 pm: |
|
What's the topic again? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 458
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:29 pm: |
|
Lambd, I just found out that I will be in Wash. D.C. the 2nd week in December. I'm going to "SING", daddy.
So we will get to see each other.
AND...the article "about" ME that I was so worried about in Black Issues Book Review has been "cancelled", they claim. At least for now.
**Smile**
|
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 712
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 05:15 pm: |
|
Oh, you'll sing alright! |
|
Email This Page