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N'rituall
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:07 pm: | 
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Is it just my imagination, or is it true that the majority of Black folks have major issues with trying to save money? For that matter, they seem to have trouble trying to control the money that they do have. How is it we have fallen into a pit of despair by trying to keep up with "the Jones's"? |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 01:56 am: |
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I think we are consumers rather than owners, which contributes to the Jones' pathology. In addition, i don't think most people, black, white or asian, have any money to save. Even if people buy that nice coat or nice bracelet, i don't think the purchase of these types of items are typical of black people, considering that the most black folk are working class(po) and those in the middle class have no wealth; their class status is representative of their salaries only. I also wonder to what extent are black folk actually keeping up with "the jones" ? Beyond anecdotal commentaries, How is this measured and defined? |
Shane Neil
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 10:07 pm: |
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The thing that we as a people need to understand is that we have become the "pointman" for advertisers and marketers. While black people, rich poor or otherwise represent a huge amount of purchasing power (the actual number eludes me now but it's ruffly a few billion dollars)our true economic value comes with our ability to set trends throughout the world. We are the preverbial "Jones'" We are the launching pad for so many companies and products. The bigger issue is how can we use his power to our advantage because thus far we haven't. |
Troy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 11:27 pm: |
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I think many of us confuse income with wealth. To many of us focus on generating larger salaries instead of greater wealth.
Those with big salaries and little wealth are, relatively speaking, being killed by our tax code when compared with say someone who may have inherited their home, whose parents paid for college, where given their first car, etc, etc.
It also kills me when people talk about tax cuts helping the so called "Rich". High income does not mean rich.
This same confusion manifests itself in the way people spend. Just because you can make payments on an expense car does not mean that you should do it. Buying a less expensive or used car may meet your while affording you the opportunity to save and use to build toward wealth.
It has become worse than keeping up with the Joneses. We seem to be keeping up with some artificial image displayed on the TV screen. How much money is wasted on tattoos, over priced clothing cars, jewelry, etc.
I agree with everyone who posted prior to me. It is all interrelated. Shane, however, I don't think we can use “his” power in the manner you describe to make money AND do the right thing. Doing the right thing, the conscious thing, is not very profitable.
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2003 - 01:13 am: |
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Troy,
Your perceptive observations on the difference between high income and wealth really put things in perspective. And your comments certainly apply to the "bling-bling" lifestyle that is permeating black culture. I have always felt that everybody is so preoccupied with racism that they don't see what a bad influence "materialism" can be on black progress. |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 05:52 pm: |
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Hello All,
I think we should also realize that for many blacks in the past century, in certain parts of the country, it was illegal for black folk to own property. It hasn't been that long ago. While many of our great grandparents did own land, and they had better act as if they didn't. My great grandfather owned hundreds of acres in the heart of Mississippi. Like many black landowners had to have a white man, who was honest, play as if he was buying the land when the real buyer was my great grandfather. Since we know there were some Northern states that allowed blacks to own property, black folk could only buy it in a certain area, at an inflated price. Let's factor all of this into the equation. It's not that black folk didn't know about these things, didn't want to invest in the stock market, etc, but for many if they wanted to breathe air through their nostrils, they didn't.
As for today's generation, I don't know what to say about us. While many of us own stocks, own real estate, just as many of us will pay $100 for a hair style that we can't even lay down and sleep in -- sleeping sitting up all night so that the 'do stays in place, ain't my type of party. And for those of you who do it, *big smile*, I'm not going to lie and say that line "I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you". Naw, baby, I'm hee hee-ing my big ol butt off at you.
All in all, I don't think we're living, or spending our money any differently than anyone else. |
Troy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 08:10 am: |
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"everybody is so preoccupied with racism that they don't see what a bad influence "materialism" can be on black progress. "
Cynique I think you hit the nail square on the head with that one.
Thumper the actual numbers would probably bear out your statement "All in all, I don't think we're living, or spending our money any differently than anyone else". But keep in mind however, the numbers also suggest we have a lot of catching up to reach parity with the average person in the country so we (or anyone else in our condiion) can ill afford to waste our income when it comes to building wealth.
We have to be careful comparing ourself to anyone else particularly the majority. It is a fact that we are more likely to be arrested and convicted more harshly for many crimes. When I was in school many of the white biys were notorious for getting "wasted" some of us followed right behind them in this activity, not realizing they, in most cases, had a job waiting for them and many other advantages which greatly reduced or eliminated the impact of getting wasted on campus. We can afford to get wasted with these cats -- our consequences are still more severe today.
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 07:22 pm: |
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Troy,
Your last paragraph is essential, where you state that we need to be careful comparing ourselves to anyone. As, i alluded and you directly stated earlier, there is a difference between wealth and income; Such a difference that most whites have familial affirmative action that most black folk don't have.
We have criminal affirmative action, while whites have economic and political affirmative action. I think, however, that trying to theorize the "masses" is difficult, because if racism is "a given," then we will always be hind, although a few of us will crawl out of the basket. And if they few are ignoring race, then the group will remain behind. Race and class can not be separated.
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Troy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 09:59 pm: |
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Hi Yukio, I'm surprised you could understand my last paragraph -- it contained so many typos.
Speaking of Affirmative action:
I read an article in the NY Times last week that said Harvard accepts 45% of the legacy students that apply and donate to the school -- 35% if you are just legacy (I find this so astounding even now question my own recollection of the article). While I realize that some of the legacy student may be Black we all knowing the actual numbers that most of these applicants will be white.
I'm sure some of the people reading this post are first generation, if not the very first in their families to attend college in this country. However most of us did not go to Harvard and our children will not get legacy benefits, nor will their children, etc. If we are lucky enough to be selected to attend one still has to find the money to go.
So if you have the money to donate to Harvard IN ADDITION to paying the exorbitant tuition AND your parents attended AND you have half a brain in you head (albeit one educated in the best elementary and high schools money can buy, along with tutors, etc) you are in.
While I in theory don’t believe in affirmative action I also don’t believe (read: know) the admissions process is not nearly as objective as the most vocal of opponents to affirmative action would have you believe.
We spend most of our time vigorously defending and justifying our so called "affirmative action" while others get their Affirmative action without question, legislation or even so much as a guilty conscious.
Yukio I think we must separate class from race from class the real beneficiaries are the wealthy. There are plenty of uneducated poor white people who have the same barriers Black people do. We are busy fighting among ourselves over the “Affirmative Action” issue a colossal waste of time.
I argue: Build wealth and Affirmative Action will become a non-issue. N'rituall I think that is how you "Save up for Freedom".
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 01:43 am: |
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Troy,
I didn't understand this statement:
"Yukio I think we must separate class from race from class the real beneficiaries are the wealthy."
As a class of poor people, black, asian, white, and hispanic, indian, etc, we do have common issues. Yet, racism and racial politics create additional problems that class issues can not address. When i say race and class can not be separateed, I'm not saying that they are the same thing, only that they work together, and even conflict and contrain eachother at times.
The question is can anyone gain wealth, regardless of race? Does race have anything to do with gaining wealth or is it just an issues of work ethic? And is wealth just the problem of black people? Is racism still an issue? What is racsim in the post-civil rights era? What is affirmative action and what "work" does it do?
In other words, if most people, especially black people, can not be wealthy, because of the nature of the capitalist system, will the wealth of the few change or improve the life chances of the many?
Now, wealth does not solve the affirmative action issues. Assuming that you can gain wealth, how will it prevent white institutions from choosing a white women over a black women?
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Troy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 09:11 am: |
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Yukio - I see my problem I'm editting as I write I need to write my posts in a word process then paste them here.
I meant: "You must seaprate class from race"
I believe because of the nature of the capitist system Black people can and do become wealthy. Simmilarly white are and can become poor.
Again, truly weathly people don't need AA. George Bush did not need AA to get into Yale, and Harvard. He is a rich man that comes froma rich and well connected family. I'm sure the Oprah's and Bob Johnson's children could go to any college they wanted to. If the were refused they could go abroad or freaking build one for their own benefit -- is that not how Morehouse and Spelman were started?
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 09:19 pm: |
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Troy,
I'm not sure how Spelman and Morehouse were started.
I was assumming we were talking about black people as a group, not individuals (ie, Oprah, Jordan, Cosby, et al). Blacks and whites can be poor and gain wealth, but whites are not racialized, especially not as a group.
Explain this statement:
"I believe because of the nature of the capitist system Black people can and do become wealthy. Simmilarly white are and can become poor."
Not exactly. 1. Black individuals( not people) can become wealthy, but the larger populations will not. White indivduals can become wealthy, but most will not.
2. Affirmative action is not just about wealth, it is about having access to places of power.
In addition, affirmative action is about getting people into powerful positions. If we consider the quote you used from the NY Times. If these kids are getting into Harvard then they'll be in a better position to meet powerful people.
We're not just talking about education and employment; we're talking having people with access to power...unfortunately, the access of individuals does not guarantee much...just an Iuy League degree.
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Beautifulwaterstar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 02:57 pm: |
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Hi, Everyone. I'm new to this discussion board, but from the brief looks of things, it seems as if you all really have some good stuff goin'..
Anyway, I would like to ask how we expect to free ourselves economically without first freeing ourselves mentally/spiritually/culturally? If we had all the money in the world and little solidarity/love for individual and collective self, we would probably be even in a worse state that we are in now..
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Theprophetess
Regular Poster
Username: Theprophetess
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 05:58 pm: |
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Hello N'rituall, it is as many have relayed, we are consumers rather than savers, or at least were, up until this 21st century. The fact is, the black has always been in 'want' of the luxuries of life. That's only natural as we were unjustly deprived of such matters and unfortunately, they became the 'Holy Grail' to reach for in order to become successful in the eyes of many blacks.
However, now that the 21st century is upon us, and many blacks have been successful thanks to the fightback of the valiant who arose and broke the demonic stronghold of white racism's segregation, many have succeeded and all the trinkets that they purchase from that success are now seen in the eyes of intelligent blacks as just that, 'trinkets.'
As so, the 21st century is a era where you are beginning to see the black focus on investments, savings bonds, and the sort. Our collective road has been hard, to say the least, so these things just naturally take time. It is good enough that the hour is here where the intelligents focus is on 'investment' moreso than spending.
And, let it be understood that a that investment will lead to building in 'all' black township as was the original goal of our ancestors who were released from enslavement.
Bottom line, all things in good time, and thankfully, good time is upon us in this 21st century of our existence among the Caucasoids (euro or pale stock beings). |
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