| Author |
Message |
    
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 181
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:50 pm: | 
|
Is this a valid question? Is it a necessary understanding for us as people (black and white)in order to move forward out of racism?
Bleek- |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 182
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:51 pm: |
|
The title of this thread should have been,
Besides the obvious, what effect does racism have on white folks? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 02:19 pm: |
|
Bleekindigo,
The slaver become him-herself enslaved by the very prisons that they ensnare others within.
I will speak in generalities that might not necessarily reflect individual people/behavior.
Slavery and racism have made White people mentally/physically lazy in that they presume themselves to be more than they are.
Whether it concern intellect, morality or beauty; Whites falsely presume of themselves virtues that they don't actually possess. And when the truth is made manifest to them, they often have great difficulty handling that.
And I attribute many of the maladies that Whites suffer to those self-induced lies. I think high depression and suicide rates, the Columbine Tragedy, Catholic priest pedophilia, etc. to the stark realization that they simply aren't as wonderful as they have deluded themselves into thinking they are.
That why you have Whites traveling to Africa and the Carribean to try to try to recapture some fake sense of importance/superiority. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 257
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
|
When the White Americans built this country 400 years ago....off the INDUSTRY of slavery....
we must all remember...
that they had no intention of slavery every ending. And they made NO PROVISIONS for what would happen if slavery ever ended. And the entire system was set up.....with the National Hallucination that SLAVERY would be forever.
Now...from that vantage point, you begin to see that the rammifications of "racism" on whites...are endless.
And probably more so on them than blacks...because WHITES have had to carefully navigate a changing system of CONTROL measures and social programs...to give the illusion of bringing "blackness" into the American fold (which is impossible) and to keep blacks from REBELLING in a national violence.
A Mulatto class was created ON PURPOSE, just as in Africa....to act as a BUFFER group to keep the authentic black people Invisible and to "speak for them", compromise for them...and mainly....to identify with the WHITE POWER STRUCTURE and uphold its mandates....all in the name of speaking as "black folks".
Marcus Garvey pointed this out when he attacked the ORIGINAL "NAACP", which was compromised almost exclusively of OCTOROONS (blacks with only 1/8th black blood)----and these OCTOROONS although called "black" were members of the Blue Vein Society (the brown paper bag test), and along with the first BLACK newspaper, THE CHICAGO DEFENDER...basically promoted the ideals and opinions of the White Power Structure, rather than presented black people with an image inately of their own. It was the CHICAGO DEFENDER that ran the most prolific advertisements and home interest stories...encouraging black women to "lighten their skin for the good of the race" (all the newspapers editors were mulatto with "good hair") and CHICAGO DEFENDER ran ads for Skin Whitening and Skin Bleaching creams...just those ads now appear, nearly 100 years later...on KENYAN television.
So more than anything....WHITES have been forced to come up with "Control Mechanisms" for tempering the rage and hostility of Black people.
And most importantly....to dilute their presence by creating the ONE DROP RULE.....a rule that allows ANYONE to claim blackness, therefore leading every black child to ask the following question:
"Why do I have to be black...when I can LOOK WHITE and still get the credit for being black?"
A brilliant master-stroke on the part of the Caucasoids!!!
And therein...the entire mass of Africans in America set out to get lighter and brighter and to place no intrinsic value in the greatest symbol of their unity and identity...their black skin.
All because the white man told them they didn't need to be BLACK....to be who they are.
Which is how the MOORS were driven to extinction.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 258
Registered: 07-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 02:41 pm: |
|
In the 1970's....WHITE AMERICA opened up the floodgates of the U.S. border with Mexico.
In just 20 short years....the Black American, who had been the nation's largest minority for 400 years, was outnumbered and displaced....by the LATINO.
To this day.....very few Black Americans see the importance or relevance of this change. Which is testament to the difference between the JEWISH AMERICAN (who is always jokeying for power)...and the BLACK AMERICAN who, as a former slave, is too afraid to demand GROUP POWER, separate and exlusively from the rest of the "Multi-culture".
Take NOTE:
In 1922, there were 2,687 black owned movie theatures.
In 2004--there are 28.
At the same time as the LATINOs were being pumped into the country and given easy citizenship (Understand--it took my Black American adoptive father, a military man, 13 years in COURT to win my citizenship, and I was a CHILD!). Anyway...just LATINOS were being pumped into the nation, the WHITE MEDIA and the WHITE ESTABLISHMENT both began promoting "interracial dating/marriage" as the IDEAL relationship for Black people----which is not NEW----they simply stopped promoting the MULATTO GIRL as the ideal for blacks...and replaced her with any NON-BLACK....the mother/female in any home being the one who passes ACCULTURATION and IDENTITY to the children.
Imagine what MOON'S "sons" are being taught about BLACKNESS...and then imagine KOLA's "sons" are being taught about BLACKNESS.
AND THEN...imagine the fact that the White Man remains "King of the World", because of his LOVE for his WHITE SONS....which are just above both Moon and Kola's sons--who actually come after the LATINO sons.
Do you get the dynamic?
There are only 43 million Black Americans....13% of the population here.....and 45 million Latinos.
There are 198 million (round it off to 200 million) WHITE AMERICANS.
In the 2000 census, for the first time in the history of ANY STATES in America......there were more Bi-racial "black" children born than BLACK CHILDREN in both California and Washington State. 87% of the mothers of these children are WHITE.
Only 4% of these white mothers identified their children as "black".
************
BLEEK---
SO THESE ARE THE AFFECTS OF RACISM ON WHITES,
IT FORCES THEM TO CREATE NEW "CONTROL MECHANISMS" FOR
distilling and incorporating "blackness" into their great society...while at the same time, carefully and methodically DILUTING and eliminating the black people.
BLACKS FORGET THAT IT TOOK 300 YEARS TO WIPE OUT THE AMERICAN INDIAN.
Much of that was done long before the 13 colonies became a nation.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 04:37 pm: |
|
Kola,
You make some winning points about the machinations that Whites adopt to maintain/inflate their numbers. And what follows is another example of that.
Prior to the great wave of immigration that occurred during the late 1800's and early 1900's, people from Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean did not 'qualify' as being "White". They were considered more or less inferior to the English, French and German. But when American industrialist wanted to bring the cheap/willing labor from those other European regions into the US, those people were 'magically' made White so that they would immediately identify with and maintain fidelity to America's dominant White power structure. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 426
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 05:25 pm: |
|
Abm,
Interesting point. Not too long ago another white person told one of my female cousins that, "Your people (meaning our family/family name) are as bad as the Jews and the ("n" bomb)." Some white people still feel that way about people from Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 264
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
|
OH YEAH, ABM...I'm very well aware of that.
Mainly because...Sicilians and Italians don't consider themselves "white" when they're visiting Africa. They insist they are the "bulo"---the lost children of Sirinia, a charcoal colored African dancing girl who became the Queen and mothered the first tribe of Tarantula Island (Sicily).
Sicilian Men and Italian men are the #1 rapists of Black African women. And they also, of all the Europeans, marry black women the most.
Lebanese men are the #2 largest rapists of African women...followed by the BRITISH white man and then closely the Dutch and Belgians.
Of course...I am a Mediterranean person by blood--I am a Kolbookek, our Egyptian family being Turkish Muslims. (Turks were not considered "Caucasoid" until as you say...they were needed to swell WHITE numbers).
But I notice that in America...they never count the "Black people" in Greece, Egypt, Sicily and North Africa when using that word "Mediterranean".
It's like when they show Washington, D.C. on t.v.---you would think it's populated by majority whites. But in reality, it's "chocolate city".
Especially EGYPT!! They make it look so white on t.v. And yet there STILL millions of black Non-Arab Egyptians and Coptics.
****
Funny...when Farrakhan used to come to Sudan...he claimed he wasn't black, but Arab.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1664
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 08:05 pm: |
|
When you consider that you could take one of those Neanderthals that appear on Jerry Springer's show, and give them a make-over, new teeth, groomed hair and designer clothes and that they could go out into society and have a chance of doing better than a black person with a PHD, I'd say that racism makes whites feel very good about themselves. |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
|
Bleek said: "Besides the obvious, what effect does racism have on white folks?"
Hi Everyone: I'm new and have been enjoying some of the discussion, so I hope you'll humor my injection of opinion here.
After reading the other posts, and I'm not disagreeing with anybody, I'm taking a different perspective.
I think racism and slavery have skewed white America's thinking (and I mean the United States)...not necesarily white Europens. Being one of the last industrialized countries to swear off slavery (and doing that kicking and screaming), it has set white Americans into the thinking that it's whites vs. everyone else. When it's actually more complicated. It's whites vs. African-Americans, whites vs. Latinos, whites vs. Filipinos, and on and on and on. Whereas some discussion has been had about white people expanding their numbers, I think they are a lot closer to extinction than we are. Already, there are more people of color on the planet than caucasians. And as technology progresses and international travel becomes the norm for almost everyone, this world will become more and more mixed and ethnic, but not caucasian.
So, it will be their rascism that leads them to extinction in that their culture will be swallowed by others simply because they do not see reality, i.e. that they are just one small group within a global community. The average white Anerican has no idea how numerically inferior they are. Example, ever see a picture of the U.S. by itself. Looks big and imposing. I don't think that is by accident. But look at the U.S. on a world map in context with all the other nations. Pretty small, right? But they just don't see themselves that way. Small and isolated with massive continents and sub-continents surrounding them filled with people of color. And I think this ignorance (or maybe it's the fear of what's inevitable) is what drives our government's foreign policy. Pre-emptive war = get them before they get us.
And who knows? After all this race-mixing. We'll probably be using a whole different list of racial identifiers in the census of 3000. And from where I sit, I believe the problem is going to become more of an economic status problem in the future. It won't matter if you're black or white. The only thing that will matter is how much green you've got and how those with the green are going to work together to keep it to themselves. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 282
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 06:59 pm: |
|
Hi Lawchic,
Welcome sister to the board!!
I often hear Black Americans attest that there are more PEOPLE OF COLOR on the planet than anyone else.
But what good is that...if MOST people of color are also White Supremacists?
Look at my country, SUDAN....where DARK BLACK people are systematically murdering and killing other BLACKS...to "lighten" up the country. And have songs celebrating "that blessed day when we become white".
And what you claim about race mixing lessening the importance of RACE.....
...just look at OIL RICH North Africa where we just spent thousands of years BREEDING out the black blood and Race Mixing (Cleopatra made it illegal in Egypt for blacks to marry blacks)....and you don't see that the RACIAL issues have only heightened????
Things are worse than ever...racially...because with so many MIXTURES, there can be no unity. And the result is an Arabic embracing of White Supremacy.....go to Indonesia, to Thailand, to India....you will see that WHITE SUPREMACY is the world agreement. People worship whiteness even if they hate the history of White people.
Only because of where I come from...do I find it impossible to agree with you.
Lawchic:
So called "People of Color"...historically...have hated BLACK PEOPLE far worse than any Whites ever have.
I would rather have WHITE PEOPLE in power than have the people of India or the Arabs or "some" Asians.
And I think that just like the American Indian...Black Americans are EXTREMELY naive about the virtues of mixing.
Once you start...economics and "social status" make it impossible to stop!!! As you compete for JOBS, schools, etc....somebody else is always going to have lighter skin and a skinnier nose and wavier hair. So you can't stop mixing.
There's only 43 million blacks (how many are pure?). And 200 million whites, plus 45 million Latinos (who also TALK COLOR but embrace whiteness--are when mixed with white, mostly LOOK WHITE).
Race Mixing on a grand scale is only going to make your lives MUCH WORSE...much more divided and it's going to make WHITENESS even .....more valued and more supreme.
You might be smart to look at the now extinct MOORS and what has happened to THEIR LAND....and look at my homeland and ALL of North Africa.
Devastated and ruined and now RULED by outsiders.
*********
LAST...Lawchic....but not least....
The worst thing that MASS race mixing causes...is "disrespect" from the rest of the world.
You now become seen as a "willing bastard", no matter how beautiful or how stylish---no one respects you, no one CLAIMS YOU and no one wants you back.
It's seen for what it is....selling out for some great riches.
Just ask the GYPSIES and the 700 races of ARABS.
|
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 10:07 pm: |
|
I understand history...but it is just that...history. We can't possibly go backwards.
And I never said that race was unimportant. Simply that races may be different in the future because of race mixing.
Example, if we believe scientists when they say that Africa is the Cradle of Civilization, we have to acknowledge that we started as one race and evolved into many races. So, why is it so far-fetched to believe that it could happen again? It appears to be a cyclical event. The only way to maintain the status quo would be to become separatists. And since very few people in this country are racially pure, how do we decide who belongs to what group? And who gets to decide how to assign people to groups?
I can only be concerned with the future. And what you speak of as unity sounds to me like separatism. I'm not interest in having to choose a side. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 288
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 10:39 pm: |
|
What do mean HISTORY?
The genocide in SUDAN is today...RIGHT NOW.
North African MIXED cultures are alive and struggling with these RACIAL ISSUES and DIVISIONS today...RIGHT NOW.
Obviously...you really don't understand History at all.
Because I'm speaking of the PRESENT.
Have you heard of the treatment of the Black Tribes in INDIA? by those people of color over there?
And racial purity has nothing to do with the fact that MOST BLACK PEOPLE in this country....still look BLACK. Which is about the only real BADGE OF HONOR they have left.
And while I sound separatist to you (what a cop-out on your part)....you sound like the typical, middle class self-hating Black American woman who thinks the answer for EVERYTHING to breed more beige versions of your former slave master.
What about your BLACK ancestors, Black American Woman.
Do they deserve to get born again??? Would they be welcome to ride in your Lexxus?
And let me get this straight....you believe that RACE MIXING will bring people together?
And that they won't be racist against one another anymore?
And your answer to "racism"....is to get rid of black people and mix until we're "people of color". As if that's some improvement?
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 289
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 10:59 pm: |
|
Oh and by the way.
It's 2004 and I am a Nilotic African Woman....and I AM THE FUTURE, not "history".
I am alive RIGHT NOW
and I
AM THE FUTURE.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 12:02 am: |
|
Well, helloooo, lawchic, and good for you for having the guts to say the unspeakable. No matter what anybody with a Messsanic Complex says, in one hundred years or so people will probably all be a neutral shade; much to the chagrin of both black and white supremists. Evolution is a part of the human condition and no one can hold back the tide of change that re-configures the face of society. Poverty and disease are taking their toll on the African continent and the trend toward sameness is pervading America. And yes, a new set of problems will accompany the emergence of the new breed, but that too is inevitable.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 12:04 am: |
|
Make that Messianic, - as in Messiah. |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:05 am: |
|
Kola:
I do not deny that any of the present day atrocities you mention are not true. They are. Genocide abounds and it is disgusting.
As for race-mixing, I never said I was in favor of it, only that it seems to me to be inevitable. Our generation is not in control of populating this planet for much longer. It will be our children who will take over this job very soon. And not having experienced the pain and humiliation of many of our ancestors, they may see the world in a very different way. That's all I'm saying. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 293
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:27 am: |
|
You're right, Lawchic.
|
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 741
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 10:42 am: |
|
Cynique:
All that may happen--unless there is an economic cataclysm and the extreme racist fringe groups gain power in the U.S. and institute a partition/expulsion as they promise.
Impossible? Remember Yugoslavia in the 90s? Bosnia Herzegovina was the most integrated province (Serbs, Croats, Muslims) in the country--you see what happened when the crap hit the fan.
The guy Radovan Karjich (I don't know the spelling who is being hunted now for war crimes--he was a poet who was in an integrated poetry group before the civil wars--many of the people in it were surprised that he was leading the slaughters--when the chips were down he decided he was a Serb after all )
The only thing holding this country together is love of the dollar--let something happen to that--I was listening to a BBC program about how much of the U.S. National debt and deficit spending is being serviced by foreign countries--particularly Japan--and how they are getting tired of it--
Impossible? The German Weimar Republic was largely sustained by massive U.S. lending--came the Crash of 1929, the cutoff of the financing, and Hitler.
I know there has been all this hope that the U.S. will evolve into a Brazilian style cafe au lait society (and they still have problems with racism there, too) but that depends on a lot of other trends holding steady that may not. |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 10:49 am: |
|
Chris: You're right about the dollar. Reminds me of something else. In the last couple of years, Saddam Hussein was on a mission to convince the OPEC members to use the euro instead of the dollar to price oil. Economists were saying that this would have a seriously negative effect on the dollar. Seems like another explanation of why we really "pre-empted" Saddam. Also explains why our normal Europen allies weren't down for it. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1676
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 11:24 am: |
|
Admittedly, prophesying the future is risky business, Chris. But I just thought I'd jump on the bandwagon and add my voice to the clamor of those who think they possess the power to make the world over in their own image. As you imply, one thing is pretty constant and that is that money does make the world go around. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1861
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
|
Foks,
I think the issue is not so much whether there should be some wholesale maintenance of racial purity. Because I imagine that even Kola would concede that that is at best improbable.
But a reasonable question/concern should be what ‘survives’ all the intermixing.
Essentially, do we want to swell the already near-omnipotent European-based power structure?
As I have said before, until Blacks can effectively create/control the source of power on this earth, it likely is inevitable that everything we have/are - including our art, personal beauty, self-conscious - will be relentlessly consumed by the more potent world hierarchy, which happens at present to be Eurocentrically-based.
And I agree that White people will likely become ‘darker’ and/or more ‘colorful’ than they current are.
BUT!
Unless the power dynamic is changed, they will still for all practical purposes be some delineation between "White" and "non-White" and that distinction will in all likelihood continue to manifest as unfairly as it does now (whether the massah’s hair be blond/straight or brown/curly). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1679
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 01:58 pm: |
|
I doubt if the problem will stem from physical appearance in the distant future, Abm. It will be about class structure. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 304
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
|
CHRIS...you are "EXACTLY" right, because that is exactly what has happened....racially......in Spain, now starting in France, in Sudan and all of North Africa.
But it's impossible to get AMERICANS (especially the Black Americans) to see how IGNORANT their belief is that people who have had a secure stable identity for THOUSANDS of years....will suddenly embrace the idea of becoming extinct so that they can MIX with others to become....what?
Notice that everyone here has IGNORED the history of such world wide attempts in the past......as if the idea of it for America is BRAND NEW.
Whenever people try to....."lets all fuck until we're all the same".......it goes smooth for only about TWO GENERATIONS if that.
THEN....all evil hell breaks loose. A natural reaction to humans who want their own "security/sanctuary" and identity.
A person like CYNIQUE, who is already partly mixed and sees no value in being "black"...can easily embrace this "solution" (sort of like changing ones name from Negro to Black to African American), because she HAS NO REAL RACIAL IDENTITY IN "HER" MIND and not much to lose...she doesn't value "black American culture" (like most black Americans, she sees it as HISTORY) and she has the ridiculous notion....that WHITES of European descent (and other racial groups) share her blah-zay feelings.
Of course, WHITES go through "fads" with race--so many of them, especially the young ones, will be GUNG-HO to join CYNIQUE in "fucking til we're all one people."
But a person like me...from a very entrenched heritage where I have a lineage (Kolbookek and Harith)...I have a language (Arabic and Timas)...I have my own nationality and my own bloodberry (the Zarpunni Omdurman) and I have the highest form of beauty...BLACK SKIN. NOW...you have a person who has something to PROTECT, to keep as WHOLE as possible for their children and to pass on to their children.
WHITE AMERICANS are like I am. They have their blue eyes, blond hair, white status and an EUROPEAN history of domination and GLORY to protect.
WHICH IS WHY...they're now creating laboratory technology to Scientifically create a child's race and phenotype.
And please notice....I aborted a child for "FEAR" that it would not have African hair (nappy) but would have Been-to hair (mixed). This alone should give you some indication of the "superficial surface" that you are contemplating.
GYPSYS, JEWS and ARABS are mixed race people who have no stable footing in the world, because they started out....as Vagabond travelers...KICKED OUT by the Mother Races from which they emerged---after the fuck parties were over.
Ethiopians made a conscious decision (check their history!) to REMAIN BLACK. And therefore, they reside in the land that was originally called AXUM and have taken the name that was once the name of the entire continent.
In America....there are only 43 million blacks and a great many of you don't have the genetic power of a full black.
There are 200 million whites and 45 million latinos (a great deal of whom are ALREADY mixing whiter and snubbing their darker breathren for marriage).
This is why ABM is absolutely insane if he thinks the WHITE RACE is going to darken and become more colorful.
No, ABM. The ones who do become "more ethnic and dark" will LOSE their status--just ask the Italians, Greeks and Sicilians.
NONE OF THIS IS NEW.
It only destroys one people----BLACK people. It's the oldest trick in the book, but Black Americans are too arrogant and frankly--too self hating---to look at Egypt and the Mediterranean and see what the real RESULT will be.
Which is...total KAOS, extreme colorism, complete dis-unity, total lack of respect from the rest of the world and heightened racial animus.
The MOST PRIZED thing in North Africa today, kiddies, after all that WAR (the CRUSADES)....is blond hair and blue eyes.
Mass Race Mixing will only further destroy your ancestors, weaken what power you already have and take away from your children's legacy---as they become even more LOST and more bastardized than they are right now.
You can change your name from "negro" to "Black" to "African American"....but fucking your ancestors into extinction.....is just another great indicator of low self-worth.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1862
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:21 pm: |
|
Cynique,
I don’t know for certain. But it sure seems like White guys have made a pretty good run at making the world over in THEIR image over the last 500 - 800 years.
And if history does prove anything it is that "Might [can] make [everything] right!" |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 305
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
|
LOOK at this idiotic statement:
I doubt if the problem will stem from physical appearance in the distant future, Abm. It will be about class structure.
*********
NOW SOMEBODY...please look at the world in 1437.....now look at the world in 1657.....now look at the world in 1887......now look at the world in 1997.....
Neither "CLASS" nor "SEX"....have ever ONCE....in HUMAN HISTORY....overcome the imperical largeness of "Visual temperance".
NO fucking amount of MONEY and EDUCATION is going to make Sally Hemmings, no matter how many corporations she owns---more valuable than WAITRESS Nicole Brown Simpson.
Cynique needs to get that candy cane "autographed by Viggo" from up her ass.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1680
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:35 pm: |
|
Ho-Ho. Ol Cynique wouldn't add her voice to the mix if ol Kola would stop appointing herself as the great messiah who will lead me to a future where the mirrors her distorted vision. >barf< I wouldn't follow her to the next block. Too bad we won't all be around in 100 years. I don't think what you bleary-eyed slobs dreamers is any more likely than what I foresee. So take your all your arguments and stuff them. LMAO Right Viggo? Right, Baby. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1863
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:36 pm: |
|
Kola,
Well. I probably would agree that I am "absolutely insane" (least that’s what my wife keep telling me...hehe!). But I wouldn’t agree for the reason you state.
Because there is one small problem with you belief that White’s will ALWAYS remain pink/pale: White foks are dying!
Look at what’s going on through out Europe and the US. "Pure" Whites are at zero to negative birth rate throughout the World. If you look almost ALL of industrialized Europe, you see the average age of White foks increasing at an alarming rate.
Now, contrast that with China’s nearly 2 billion people, India’s 1 billion people, almost a billion Africans/diaspora and likewise in Central/South America and you’ll see why many smart/studied White social scientists, economists and politicians are scared to death.
And THAT’s why I think the view of what is/isn’t White will ‘evolve’: Not because they WANT it to, but because they have no choice.
Mark my words: In side of 50 years, Mexicans will be considered "White".
In order for them to perpetuate the fallacious fantasy of White supremacy, their beauty standards MUST evolve.
And if you think about it, they have already. That is why you see more "exotic-looking" White women being adored in the popular media/culture than ever before.
So, yes, the naturally blond-hair, blue-eyed White woman will still be admired...but then, so is the dinosaur. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:48 pm: |
|
You can't tell Kola anything. She will not allow anyone to deflate this grand dream where she is cast as the star. Her day has passsed and she can't accept it. She cannot face that fact that she is the past, not the future. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 307
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:48 pm: |
|
ABM, I just can't get you Black Americans to OPEN YOUR EYES and see,
these people are WHITE SUPREMACISTS:
Now, contrast that with China’s nearly 2 billion people, India’s 1 billion people, almost a billion Africans/diaspora and likewise in Central/South America and you’ll see why many smart/studied White social scientists, economists and politicians are scared to death.
***Those 3 billion assholes in China and India are WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!!
********
SO WHAT if we become "color world" when we'll be just as WHITE-worshipping, genocidal and evil as the white master??
I'm missing the POINT of you alls contention.
How can you live in the U.S. 400 years and fail to see that the WHOLE WORLD got together and created a "nigger"....and then trust them enough to go off and committ your genes and chromosomes....to THEM...the killers of your parents?
And for the record...I 60% of California is now MEXICAN.
A great, great many of them, ABM, could easily PASS for White. And like us, they only promote that the lightest marry the lightest...so the reality is.....they WILL BE WHITE in 100 years.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 308
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 02:54 pm: |
|
ANY WOMAN...that gives birth is the future, Cynique.
And just because you're a former slave with nothing INATE to cherish and protect....doesn't mean we all have to follow you into the furnace of extinction.
I suppose you'll be mailing my kids their yearly supply of Michael Jackson Skin Whitening Pills next?
Progress.
OH...
...and what are you going to call yourself next generation? Now that you're tiring of "African-American"?
Will it be "Brownies"?
It's YOUR confused, lost asses who become the past, Cynique.
My people are 26,000 years old and there are MORE OF US NOW...than there were in 1960. We're like the MEXICANS in that way.
We may be poor, downtrodden and our faces may look ancient to YOU....but as our great King Phianky said: "Ancient and tomorrows. We are the Unkillable."
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
|
Why can't YOU understand other people's point of view, Kola? Why are you so sure that you speak the WHOLE truth? Why don't you stop trying to stuff your self-serving priorities down other people's throats. Why don't you move out of your white conclave and stop fawning over light-skinned women who stroke your ego and return to the continent of your birth and crusade there for your own people? Stop trying to impose your views on people who obviously don't respond to them. |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 183
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
|
Kola,
For a minute I thought you were about to go Miss Celie on us!!! With that last line-
We may be poor, black, we may even be ugly, but we're here---by gawd we here!!!
Ha Ha!!
Bleek- |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 309
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:35 pm: |
|
CYNIQUE..it's not that I don't understand your point of view.
It's just that I see it as "not very well thought out".
You referred to me as "backwards"...for wanting to love my own skin, and subsequently my children's skin, create my own socio-economic society that benefits MY KIDS and for wanting to retain my heritage.
In other words, my stability is BACKWARDS in your mind. You can't even see that these Whites and Arabs seek to destroy ME...mainly so that YOU won't get a clue as to who you really are and what your real purpose should be.
My racial identity is already perfect.
What could be more forward...more of a future...than one steeped in a firm foundation?
Your are espousing MORE CONFUSION..MORE DISCONNECTION FROM SELF.....MORE HIPPIE NIGGERS...mainly because the ground you stand on is not as firm as the ground I stand on.
If my priorities are self-serving...then yours are plain bad vision.
BLEEK:
I love that movie, COLOR PURPLE. I cry every time I watch it....and I ALWAYS feel that..."I" ....am Nettie coming home to my ones.
Shug Avery is my favorite character, though. Her and Sophia are my kinda women.
That film, along with E.T. and BELOVED and THE ELEPHANT MAN....are my all time favorite films of the new millenium.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1869
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:41 pm: |
|
Kola says: "Shug Avery is my favorite character, though. Her and Sophia are my kinda women."
ABM says: Yeah. The only thing bettah than seeing 2 sistahs dance in a movie...is seeing 2 sistahs French-kiss in a movie. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1684
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:42 pm: |
|
As I say, Kola, you talk it, but you don't walk it. But carry on. Without me. So be it. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 310
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:43 pm: |
|
And furthermore, CYNIQUE and ABM....
Please forgive me if I sound disrespectful. Truly, I don't mean to.
But what GOOD is celebrating "colored" Asians and Indians and ARABS, all who HATE BLACK PEOPLE....support the genocide of Black People......exploit Africa's land and kill the people.....exhalt "whiteness" as the highest standard of their own communities and have ALWAYS been in league with the white man?
You keep hoorah-ing about "people of color" and this new MIXED WORLD (which is actually quite ancient). They're the fucking WORST!
There is NO SOLIDARITY between "Black people" and the other colored peoples of the world. They HATE our black asses.
So why are you--Cynique and ABM--not protecting the interests of your ancestors?
A Mexican is just a white fucker with a TACO!
WAKE UP!!
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 311
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:44 pm: |
|
There is NO SOLIDARITY between "Black people" and the other colored peoples of the world. They HATE our black asses.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1685
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 03:53 pm: |
|
Yes, I know that should have been white "enclave,"
not "conclave." |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1876
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 04:37 pm: |
|
Kola,
I think that you may have misunderstood some what I said/intented.
I agree that Chinese/Indians/Mexicans already do and likely will continue to oblige the world color hierchey, unless they are compelled to do otherwise. All I am saying is that over time what appears to "White" now might not be what 'passes' for White a couple of generations from now and they some of them may be assumed within the broadening White catagory.
Go back to what I said before about 100 years ago Italians, Greeks and Turks weren't White, but now they are.
All I am saying is I expect that over the course of a few generations, a similar kind of 'social metamorphosis' may occur with other traditionally non-White foks.
BTW: That "A Mexican is just a white fucker with a TACO!" was so funny laughed outloud. Hehe! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 744
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 10:32 am: |
|
I had to think about this one. On the whole I think that it gives them a false sense of security and superiority. I think that it then leads them to twisted reasoning when they meet a black person that does not fit the stereotype that further undermines their equilibrium.
I think further it has screwed up any chances that they had to lead the world. Most of the world is not white. How can someone lead the world who has a false sense of superiority, who has contempt for everybody who does not look like him or her?
A local wag and talk show host named Onion Horton used to say, when America would get its nose bloodied in places like Vietnam, Lebanon, Somalia, and now Iraq and Afghanistan-- "They have been too used to dealing with US (meaning black folks in the US)."
What he means is its one thing to deal with an outnumbered unorganized minority on your home ground whose economic situation you largely control and to deal with people on their home ground where they outnumber you--in a large part--the largely peaceful relations they have enjoyed with us despite the years of oppression have deluded them to believe that they can go deal out crap to folks in other countries and not have to pay for it. |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 12:16 pm: |
|
Kola said "Mass Race Mixing will only further destroy your ancestors, weaken what power you already have and take away from your children's legacy---as they become even more LOST and more bastardized than they are right now."
I was just wondering what Kola would prefer. Someone who is perfectly black in skin color, but totally assimilated into white culture, aka, "the oreo"? Or would she prefer someone of a lighter persuasian who identifies with being black and embraces and shares his/her heritage?
As she has said many times, very few blacks in this country are racially pure. So, what does she expect us (black americans) to do? Are black women supposed to go hunt down the blackest man possible or black men go hunt down the blackest woman possible to propagate? Or maybe only the blackest man and woman should be allowed to propogate together?
So, what is it that you think we black americans should be doing, Kola, to live up to your definition of blackness?
The major disagreement I have with your theories is that you are allowed to be comfortable in your skin, but we're not allowed to be comfortable in ours (especially if it isn't black enough).
And you never addressed my earlier question about maintaining black physiology without becoming separatists. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 329
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
|
LAWCHIC asked:
So, what is it that you think we black americans should be doing, Kola, to live up to your definition of blackness?
FIRST UP: You could acknowledge that....YOUR DEFINITION of blackness....largely comes from your White SLave Master and not from your own African ancestors.
That ONE DROP RULE...you didn't get that from us, nor did you come here thinking that racist bullshit.
You believe BLACK PEOPLE are so inferior...that just ANYBODY can be them?
Find out....WHY you believe what you believe.
THAT...would be a major start.
And I am not truly dark skinned myself, Lawchic. I am a definite chocolate color INDOORS...but look considerably lighter OUTDOORS. I am the child of a White Arab Egyptian and a Charcoal African woman. I AM NOT PURE.
My Auntie Ramah was a "redskinned" PURE African Gisi-Waaq Oromo, my mother was a "charcoal" one.
**************
Lawchic....
....Black Americans consciously "hunt down" the lightest-whitest person to mix with NOW and that has been well documented since slavery ended.
OTHERWISE, you would still look like your ancestors and there would be no need for books like "The Blacker The Berry" or "The Bluest Eye"---both of which relentlessly tell the TRUTH about all the millions of BLACKS who have been "disallowed" by other blacks...because they were "too black".
You PRETEND that your mixture has been caused by some "great COINCIDENCE of love" or simply White men "raping" black women, but that's not true. It's been caused by the same shit that causes it in Africa and in the West Indies and in BRAZIL...by YOUR PEOPLE internalizing the belief system of the WHITE PEOPLE who owned and dehumanized you--just as colonialized Africans, Brazilians and West Indians took on the same SELF-HATRED.
Black People call white people "RACIST DEVILS" and then.....
These same blacks seek to have "good hair"---openly considering blacks with African hair, especially females, to be INFERIOR. This ugly, racist fact has also been documented.
They value and cherish WHITENESS above the blackness of their African ancestors....and this ugly, colorist fact has been documented.
The Michael Jackson Pill--a skin lightening pill-- is now making BILLIONS on the continent of Africa, Lawchic, because little African kids want to be "more like the Black Americans". They want to be "LIGHTSKINNED"---because the Black Americans pump these images of "white is better"....(just look at Michael Jackson who CHOSE to become a White Man and CHOSE to honor and love PURE WHITE CHILDREN)....and pump these images into Africa now by music videos and movies and magazines.
IF we love Michael Jordan and Harriett Tubman and Sidney Poitier and Martin Luther King so much
If we love Michael Jordan and Harriett Tubman and Sidney Poitier and Martin Luther King so much...then WHY isn't there a single motion picture made by Blacks that celebrates the love between the dark man and dark woman that it would take to create these beautiful people? EVERY FILM OR T.V. SHOW OR VIDEO I SEE...shows a dark man with a lighter woman--almost as though there's a color rule. And now lately...they ditch the yellow woman altogehter!...and focus on "SAVE THE LAST DANCE" or pair our men with LATINAS, ASIAN, BI-RACIAL images of Whiteness....anything but black. And this is presented to us and our black children as if it's "normal"....and that we blacks, once again, become the "stain"--the abnormality that messes everything up.
Two dark skinned people IN LOVE...is a taboo. And I'm talking Taye Diggs paired with Lauryn Hill in a love story. THAT...is taboo.
But that also means the entire continent of Africa has been "wrong" for 26,000 years and that we are not as HUMAN....as the rest of the world. OUR LOVE is not even worth being celebrated...by black people.
LAWCHIC:
Perhaps WE could start to become HUMAN BEINGS (before we become Afrocentric yellow people)....by first acknowledging the affects of White Supremacy on Black People (worldwide--not just here in America)....and begin to dismantle the COLOR hierarchy--COLOR caste system that you have this country that threatens to poison ALL OF US.
This is no different than 400 years ago when BLACK MEN began selling their own children into slavery.....there were many blacks who sat in their RICH Bamboo huts sipping palm wine and saying..."I don't see anything wrong with it."
As far as SEPARATISM....why should healthy well adjusted Black people be separated from ANYONE?
My position is this.
While I may love mingling with white people and sharing my community with them---I don't want to BE WHITE. And part of their respect for me or any human being, is in knowing that they cannot inhabit my body or dilute my specialness as my self. My black skin has VALUE to me. When I look for a mate to PRO-CREATE with...I want foremost to create my own image and to see MY PEOPLE in my children. I am an African and I don't think my ancestors are so INFERIOR that I seek not to give birth to them again.
You fail to acknowledge that MOST black people in the United States come into a White Community with deep feelings of self-loathing (such as desiring "good hair") and self-hatred (such as desiring a "light skin baby" instead of their own image) and think of WHITES as more attractive and "better people" than their own kind. You IGNORE that the playing field is NOT LEVEL...and then try to claim that "separatism" is the issue at hand...rather than the fact that these people are ill prepared to stand up next to whites...as equal human beings.
DO THAT FIRST.
HOW do white people maintain WHITE PHYSIOLOGY without becoming Separatists???
Well let's see...92% of Whites marry and mate with OTHER WHITES. And since there's 200 million of them and only 43 million of us, they can afford to lose whatever LOWER CLASS whites set up house with blacks. It hardly puts a dimple in their numbers, contrary to what you and ABM claimed earlier.
But the other fact is....Color would have very little to do with it...if MOST Black people weren't so damned colorstruck.
CHILDREN...grow up and do what they see their parents do.
If children see their black fathers ALWAYS chasing, loving and affirming Non-Black women....then they begin to learn that "blackness" by itself is not normal and that it is not to be valued, protected or loved.
If children see their black mothers constantly killing their African hair and praising the hair quality of other races....then those children come to despise African hair (AND the African people on whose heads that hair grows) and SEEK out the hair of other races.
CHILDREN grow up and do what they've seen their parents do.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 330
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
|
And by the way, Lawchic---
My birth father PURCHASED my mother when she was 14 from her tribe. They never attempted to hold a conversation until.....AFTER they were married....and my mother had NO SAY whatsoever in who married her. NONE.
And although there are many people in Sudan and Ethiopia who have "straight hair".....those people do not consider their hair AFRICAN hair. We call it "been-to" hair. It is not African.
It's utter bullshit when Black Americans claim that African "hair" and people....come in every texture and shade.
We ARE NOT cohesive...the Mixed People and the Blacks. And the reason is....the Mixed People cannot maintain their "mixed-ness" if they mate with PURE Africans. They would all be BLACK in just one generation.
So it's the MIXED PEOPLE who are racist and separatist against the Authentic Blacks.
|
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 03:45 pm: |
|
"FIRST UP: You could acknowledge that....YOUR DEFINITION of blackness....largely comes from your White SLave Master and not from your own African ancestors."
I can do that. White folks definitely made the rules back then...and still do for the most part. So, by our ancestors' definition we are not black. So, what are we? And why are we even debating our "blackness" with you if it doesn't apply to us (black americans). Why should we even care? After all, we're not black (by the ancestors' definition).
"And I am not truly dark skinned myself, Lawchic. I am a definite chocolate color INDOORS...but look considerably lighter OUTDOORS. I am the child of a White Arab Egyptian and a Charcoal African woman. I AM NOT PURE."
Ok. So, you're not black either by the ancestors' definition. So, does that mean you have self-hate because you're not truly "black?"
And to talk about media representations of black people doesn't even apply. I cetainly don't let the media decide what is appropriate for me and my family, nor does it influence my thinking. I spend a lot of time educating my children about their history and culture outside of the classroom because I don't believe that they should be continualy saturated with European culture, while ignoring their own.
But I do agree that TV and filmmakers have problems with exposing black love in their programming. I point it out to my children on a regular basis when we watch a movie and the black hero and black heroine don't exchange a loving kiss when their white counterparts most certainly would.
"You IGNORE that the playing field is NOT LEVEL..."
We absolutely know it is not level.
"HOW do white people maintain WHITE PHYSIOLOGY without becoming Separatists???
Well let's see...92% of Whites marry and mate with OTHER WHITES. And since there's 200 million of them and only 43 million of us, they can afford to lose whatever LOWER CLASS whites set up house with blacks. It hardly puts a dimple in their numbers, contrary to what you and ABM claimed earlier."
I don't have the numbers at hand, but I would venture to say that about 90% of blacks marry or have children with other blacks in this country. But, then again, these people are not black by the ancestors' definition, so I guess they don't count. Looks like we're screwed and there's no way to have black people in this country. We are, in fact, extinct.
"We ARE NOT cohesive...the Mixed People and the Blacks. And the reason is....the Mixed People cannot maintain their "mixed-ness" if they mate with PURE Africans. They would all be BLACK in just one generation.
So it's the MIXED PEOPLE who are racist and separatist against the Authentic Blacks."
And, by the way, if you're bi-racial and I'm not, how are you blacker than me? I don't remember whether the father of your children is "pure" African (by the ancestors' definition), but let's, for the sake of argument, say he's not. That would make you a separatist (by your own definition) - just not in the way originally supposed. And you would agree that a light skinned woman who sets out to mate with a dark skinned man to have a baby darker than herself would be suffering from self-hate. She has to be if she is deliberately trying not to replicate herself. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 332
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:31 pm: |
|
Actually, LAWCHIC....I don't know what kind of black YOU are....but I certainly consider MOST black Americans to be "authentically BLACK".
And this happens all the time....
.....Black American people REFUSING (because of FALSE pride) to admitt that their HISTORY and the resultant self-hate is the catalyst for them wanting to embrace anything but BLACK people......and then out of frustration and denial....trying to turn it around on Black People, the first people on earth, accusing THEM of being racist separatists who are backwards and evil because they don't want to be MIXED, genetically degraded by White Supremacy and separated from their own people.
You're an American and your conclusions are your own...and because you're MY bloodberry, I am going to love you no matter what you do.
And I live in a community of Whites, Asians, Latinos, 18 interracial couples....so I hardly see myself as a separatist.
What I am is an Nilotic woman. I live WITH people...it's not my life's goal to BECOME them. I am ALREADY everything that I love and adore. BLACK.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 333
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:36 pm: |
|
LAWCHIC,
Of course, I have self hate!!
How can ANY colored people of ANY race live in this White Supremacist world and not have some form or some measure of self-hate?
Like my Arab Egyptian father taught us: "The world's only true religion is White Supremacy. Christianity and Islam are just decoys to hide that fact".
Shit. I've probably fucked more white men than you ever will! I've had my hair "relaxed" and done up like a caucasoid woman's and might very well do so again in the future.
I am in NO WAY saying that I am better than you.
What I am saying is....I "AM" YOU....from before you were YOU.
Do you get it?
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1882
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:41 pm: |
|
Are White people ever required to be anything other than...White? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 334
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:57 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
This TOTALLY ignorant statement right here is going to be the downfall of ALL OUR people:
"And to talk about media representations of black people doesn't even apply. I cetainly don't let the media decide what is appropriate for me and my family, nor does it influence my thinking."
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING MISS BLACK AMERICA DIVA GIRL and LAWYER:
There is no way on earth...that ANY human being...can escape the power of "visual images"....or not be influenced by them or not be MADE by them.
Preferences are not "inate". They are the direct result of the Society and Atmosphere in which one lives.
If you lived in Sudan--you would PREFER to have "salted locusts" for breakfast, not bacon.
Your comment is proof of your denial, because...
1) There is NOTHING in African culture that would little black children want to swallow a "blue pill" made in a lab to make them white...if it had been, they would have been wishing for it BEFORE Michael Jackson and the advent of Western Culture being Piped into Africa.
I can tell you right now that BLACKS in Africa have always thought of themselves as the most beautiful on earth, loved their black mothers, worshipped their black fathers and had no argument with their place in the universe.
UNTIL...a White Jesus was set up above them...and they were forced to worship it. And white media is now being brought in....and images of rich, successful Black Americans in blond wigs or with white women on their arms are being brought in.
And you're beyond a LIAR if you're claiming that these images do not affect the HUMAN mind. This is why Whites BELIEVE they are superior, as well---they are constantly fed the image of themselves ON TOP and most highly prized and images of WHITENESS as "normal", blackness as "exotic". How can whites not think they're superior with 10 million NIGGERS cheering their every shit dropping----and how can the children of those NIGGERS not believe in whiteness when all they see is their parents placing VALUE on it in everything they do, even when whites are not around?
2) And these Black American women with flowing weaves of BLOND HAIR and fake blue eyes in their head are further LIVING PROOF of the power of "MEDIA" and "visual images" telling them that they (as themselves) are not beautiful.....and that if you want attention from Black Men (who grow up on I DREAM OF JEANNIE and colorist Hip Hip rop videos )...then you need to look as "light" as possible to be loved.
When is the last time that we ever saw two fully black people being portrayed in the MEDIA as an IDEAL and as DESIRABLE?
The MEDIA affects what everybody on this board thinks, values and believes.
There is NO WAY...NONE around it.
And now, my dear...KOLA BOOF IS A FORM MEDIA.
And it's about GODDAMNED time!!!!!
|
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:59 pm: |
|
My Black Sister!!!
Well, that was certainly a revelation - that you believe "black americans" to be "authentic" blacks. One would not gather that from much of your earlier post.
What I don't understand is your insistence that black americans are self-hating. I'm sure there are some that are, but I wouldn't agree that it was any significant number. Maybe a 100 years ago, but not now.
I hope you and anyone else who read my earlier post recognize the satirical nature of it. It was an exercise in demonstrating just how absurd it is to apply some of those theories to us. The bottom line is that blacks in the Americas have been separated from the African continent for almost a half millennium. We are simply different and have our own culture. You can call it bastardized, but we are among good company since we all evolved from one race - an African race - and are equally bastardized. We have a different experience and we will have to struggle and survive in our own way. We don't need anyone to tell us whether we are black. We have to do nothing more than stand next to a white person (no matter what shade we are) to know that we are not white. We are black by our own definition. We do not need another's.
It would be foolish for me to suggest to you that you are not black because you're bi-racial. It is what you feel inside that dictates your blackness; just as it is what I feel inside that dictates my blackness.
Peace, black sister, because those who want to be black, truly are. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 335
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
|
there's a HUGE DIFFENCE in 4% (marrying blacks) of 200 million WHITES.....and 10% of 43 million BLACKS.
Especially when the blacks ones are our wealthiest, most educated, highest achievers...and the WHITES are usually the "rejects" whose only contribution is going to be---"White supremacist values for colored kids".
ALSO NOTE---72% of bi-racial children go on to marry WHITE and generally prefer their white parent.
98% of Bi-racial black males marry NON-BLACK.
The BLACKS lose.
**************
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS:
I love you, Lawchic, because I love myself and everything that recognizes that it comes from ME (that includes if you're bi-racial).
I am not against you. Whatever you want to do...Knock yourself out. I will STILL love you and support you, on G.P.
BUT....don't ask me a question if you don't want the answer.
Because I am NOT AMERICAN, my White father HATED, absolutely HATED "White Power", married a charcoal (not just black---charcoal) woman to escape his family's racist...and therefore, I don't see how you see.
And I stand by my opinion....MASS RACE MIXING is only going to destroy, separate and SCATTER what little dignity and culture your people have left.
A "little" race mixing is ALWAYS GOOD. We've always had a little. But what you have in America is not natural...this is an EPIDEMIC of self-hate.
ALL your boys want the lightest skin they can find--nobody loves black children. And YELLOW GIRLS are not even good enough for them. Now she is tossed out for Latinas, Asians, Bi-racial, Arabs, anything...but black.
And you expect me to be quiet?
Nobody likes the lost bastard children of people who are extinct BY CHOICE. And I am one African woman who can't stand self-hating Niggers (Westerners) and Pogo-niggers (Africans) who HATE our own mother and do everything they can to OBLITERATE her image and to help the WHITES do what they always wanted to do....ANNIHILATE us from the earth.
You think a BLACK MAN hating me for being black...is any nicer than a WHITE MAN doing it?
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:24 pm: |
|
Kola,
If the biracial statistics you cite are true, why don't the rest of us Black foks who love/appreciate our Blackness simply say f#$%'em and good riddance? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1885
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:32 pm: |
|
Kola,
How do you propose to birth/raise/teacher Blacks to think as you when every other message they receive assert the opposite of what you think/say?
Don't you think you and people who think like you ultimately will have to separate from others to effect what you want? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:36 pm: |
|
Kola,
And what will you do about all of us woefully inept men that you apparently don't have much use for?
Do you intend to poison us to death?
Or do you hope we die early and painful deaths? |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:38 pm: |
|
Oh, my questions to you are not rhetorical, Kola. I fully expect you to answer them. I truly want to understand your thinking. Not that I always agree with it. I just want to fully understand why you hold the opinions and espouse the theories you do. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 336
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:39 pm: |
|
LAWCHIC,
Been-to....is a continental African term in EVERY COUNTRY that means..."Been to someplace else and now I'm back."
An African writer living in New York or London....is called a "Been-to" writer.
Hair that is wavy, not "nappy" on a BLACK PERSON....is called "been-to hair".
Been someplace else and now I'm back.
African hair is "nappy".
YOU SAID:
It would be foolish for me to suggest to you that you are not black because you're bi-racial. It is what you feel inside that dictates your blackness; just as it is what I feel inside that dictates my blackness.
*******
NO.
In Africa....we are "Africans", not colors. But to be an African...you must be BORN from the blood of an African "tribe".
Black Americans are the direct children on 200 African tribes. And in most of their faces---just by looking at them--you can almost tell what SOME of their tribes are.
I am Bi-racial....but by COLOR, I am still "BLACK". ALL THE DARK CHOCOLATE BLACKS IN EGYPT...are "bi-racial".
Some Bi-racial Africans are "White" or "Half Caste".
It goes by COLOR.
The "red" people (who you don't have these in America)...but the "red" people are PURE AFRICANS. They're not mixed. They have deep orange-brown skin that turns RED around Noon-day and their hair is flaming, nappy red hair. They have huge lips, flat, wide noses and big fat asses and they like to eat salt on EVERYTHING and laugh a lot.
They are not BLACK. But they are PURE AFRICANS.
Africans value color and African hair....as opposed to "absence of color" and Been-to Hair.
Continental Africans consider "ME"...a "Been-to Writer", not an African writer, but accept that I am a Black Woman. Because I am a "been-to"..I cannot become a Griot or a Shaman or a Priestess.
AFRICANS can come in many colors. To me, Kathleen Cross, who LOOKS white...is an AFRICAN, but she's not black, she is BEEN-TO.
But you don't have to be BLACK to be African. You have to be born from the BLOODBERRY of a "tribe".
Which is WHY the white people in South Africa....are NOT Africans. They are not born from any African tribe.
|
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:46 pm: |
|
My point exactly. That is African culture. it is not ours. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 337
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 05:53 pm: |
|
ABM---
You are ALREADY a good man. So your question isn't fair, because you PRETEND that the majority of black men in this country are good men just waiting to settle down and be good fathers....and the fact is just the opposite.
Black men are REWARDED by other black men...for being Dog-ass whores, celebrated for having 10 BITCHES....who have created a culture of HATRED for black women (the "bitches and Ho's"---which is now WORLDWIDE BLACK MEDIA--that they despise)....while they praise and set the example that White, latina, bi-racial and Asian "bitches and Ho's" are to be valued, respected and held up as the Superior Woman.
While setting this example in front of the whole world (while GOOD BLACK MEN like you are quiet and virtually invisble)...these men also leave 70% of BLACK CHILDREN to be raised by emotionally and mentally damaged black mothers whose MAIN crime in this society is that they're "BLACK".
We can't make it without BLACK MEN. But we need a "new one".
One who isn't a nigger or a Pogo-nigger.
This is why I tell black women all the time: "Give birth to a new son."
We don't need black men who judge us by our skin color, hair texture and despise the blackest of women. We don't need black men who go on national t.v. to say: "Black women are for sex, white women are for love".
We don't need black men who sit up at the barbershop talking about---"that little nappyheaded black fucker aint' my baby. I wouldn't even have something like that."
SOMEHOW....these realities escape you and Lawchic.
MOST black men in this country...are colorstruck without knowing it...or are straight up PREJUDICED against black women.
MOST.
I don't care what you and anyone else says. It's a fact.
The black women in this country need to love themselves and our people enough...to give birth to a new son. One who honors himself, his people and gives birth...to his own image.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1888
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:06 pm: |
|
Kola,
First, I don't see/hear Black men say/do what you say. I will, however, agree there are many brothah who think such. But I don't see them overtly demonstrate such. But then, I don't spend too much time around brothahs who would do that anyway.
Sistah are just as color struck as us. All of the crap you attribute to Black men I have often seen/heard sistah project as well.
Are Black women less accountable for what they see/think of ourselves as Black men are? You would think so if one accepted all you say.
And I am neither silent or invisible. Yaw just don't give a d*mn.
You don't!
You SAY you do. Certainly when you are having problems, when that no count brothah is screwing your girlfriend or won't pay his child support or won't work a job, then you act concerned.
But when you think things are going good, you would broad jump 10 decent brothahs to get to one thug MOFO who's pants are hanging off the back of his @$$ and view fidelity to be a curse word.
So spare me all the bad Black man talk. Because the day that Black women act like they WANT a good man is the day that some of you might actually start to find them. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 338
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
|
Also ABM:
I am not GOD.
People ask me my opinions on these issues....and I tell you the truth of what I think.
I also "crusade" as you say....in my public works....to advance some measure of MY BELIEFS and to provide some window into a Black Aesthetic. Not a Black American Aesthetic or a Pan-African one---but a BLACK Aesthetic.
I believe that 100 years from now, there will be MANY people in this country who love me and greatly appreciate my vision and CANDOR and love for my black children...even if no one appreciates or understands it now.
What seems RADICAL today....will seem commonplace tomorrow.
As I told Cynique..."I"....am the future. That's the reason I came to this country.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1890
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:21 pm: |
|
Kola
If you are made to save the world, who'll be left to rescue thee? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 339
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:27 pm: |
|
ABM,
MEN are supposed to provide leadership...demand JUSTICE...and keep watch and protect THEIR community.
How can a man do that when he hates his own woman--and mainly because he believes that his LACK of status is directly owing to the womb of his mother's inferiority?
I'm not talking about YOU or my father or Thomas...I'm talking about the MASS CULTURE. This WORLD-WIDE "Hip Hop" TESTOSTERONE-driven black men's CULTURE of self-destruction and...celebrated IDIOCY.
Your arm chair must be awfully comfortable...if you think for one minute that I'm going to believe that all of this has escaped YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
And it's the MEN....the MEN....who have all the REAL tangible power in this society. If they didn't, then the images we see and the world we live in would be dramatically different.....and we would not be afraid to walk down the street in the GHETTO at night.
The MAJOR problem in this country between black men and black women.....is that the MEN (far, FAR more than the women)....are self-loathing, selfish, self-destructive and are deliberately destroying what is "familiar" to them....because it unblocks their low self esteem and allows them to ESCAPE the realm of their personal failure....just as their great great grandfathers in Africa SOLD their very own children into slavery 500 years ago....and I'm sure that had you been back there at that time, you may have come up with an EXCUSE to let "brothas" off the hook for that, too....rather than be man enough to admitt that NOTHING....
absolutely NOTHING....
...that black men are doing TODAY is planting a SEED of hope and continuation for US as a people.
If anything...they're selfishly destroying it and have NO ONE but themselves in mind....for EVERYTHING they do.
MAYBE IF SOME...."REAL MEN", ABM...would get on these other men's asses and get in their faces and stop patting them on the back for being whores and Pogo-heads....then MAYBE a "smart, insightful" BITCH like me could shut the fuck up and fix dinner.
There is no such thing as a "black community" anymore.
And it is NOT..the women's fault!!!
and P.S.
I CAME HERE TO BE HATED...for being the messenger.
SO hate away.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 340
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:30 pm: |
|
Fuck saving the world.
I'm talking about MY KIDS.
MINES.
MY PEOPLE!
The rest of the world can either come to our Bar-B-Q when they're invited or go to fucking hell.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 341
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:49 pm: |
|
ABM....
YOU
will have to rescue me.
I've already cried, boo-hooed and BEGGED you in front of EVERYONE.....how many times?
I am not GOD or Superwoman. I depend on YOU, ABM...you, personally. Your strength, wisdom and caring.
So you need to quit.
And as I said....Black Women in THIS COUNTRY...are FORCED
forced to be STRONGER THAN MULES, because the "MEN" over here don't do shit
not a damned thing to put the "bad guys" in check and to make our neighborhoods liveable and decent.
Black men over here...DO NOT PROTECT US, they do not honor us just for being the mother of their race, in fact
most of the men I've witnessed over here for 20 years running are PREJUDICED against their own mothers and sisters and ALL black women.
They hate nothing more....than a black woman.
You think fucking a woman every night is loving her????
You think lusting after her "big" ass and putting your dick in her mouth is LOVE?
(well I admitt, it's fun) LOL
And you think I don't know how UNPOPULAR what I'm saying is?
You think I don't know how many BLACK MEN are eventually going to rise up to silence me?
You think I don't know?
***********
The LAST WORD will be yours and Lawchic's, because I'm tired of trying to find ways to speak truthfully about these very sensitive issues.
Nothing I say is going to reveal to you the enormous love and responsibility I FEEL for OUR PEOPLE.
I don't know how to be a good American. It seems to me that America is totally against MY CHILDREN.
I don't know what else to tell you, because you can't understand me.
|
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:52 pm: |
|
Since Kola's not cooking, I guess I have to. Want some meatloaf, ABM? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:03 pm: |
|
Kola,
I thought the hand that rocked the cradle ruled the world?
These men you are complaining about are being raise by Black women. So you all are as much to fault for what you decry as we Black men are.
I haven't "escaped" anything. I just know better to than see what is going on as one-sidedly as you do.
The young ladies out here that I see are as fearsome as guys, it not more so. And unlike with the guys, you never quite see the hell women are bringing with'em til it's too late.
And I myself would fear treading many of the "ghetto streets" to which you refer. In fact, statistically, I am more likely to be found dead in an inner city dumpster than you are.
So can we at least TRY to interject some realistic balance in this discussion?
Now. I do try to advise/encourage brothahs to do right. But hey, it's a free country. I can't make them do ANYTHING.
Also, what I find it is there are TOO MANY sistahs who are ready/willing to cater to their vice. Many of you even prefer/promote the 'DAWG' side of brothahs. So if that's what you want, how can I convince brothahs to do otherwise?
Still. I ain't got nothing but love for you, Drama Mama. You know this.
PS: Somehow, I don't think that there is ANYTHING that I could do that would convince most Black women to "shut the fuck up and fix dinner." Would you consider that to maybe be part of problem? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1892
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:05 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
Thanks, California. Please do your thang.
Daddy A' simply LOVES him some meatloaf.
YUM! |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:14 pm: |
|
And here I just offered you some of my homemade meatloaf...lol...ungrateful wretch.
But I agree with you, ABM. It is more a product of our youth culture than being a man or woman's problem.
Our young people are exposed to so much through the media that they think they are supposed to have all those things...and if they don't have them they think (erroneously) they are deprived. They don't understand the concept of paying your dues. They think they are supposed to have everything right away.
But we all have to do our part and we'll eventually get the message to them. That you don't need to have sex with everyone you meet...that you don't need to settle for some fool that wants you to be part of his playa's harem. I meet good young black men all the time. They just get frustrated without the encouragement and go astray. Doesn't mean they can't come back. I think mentoring programs are very important.
And nothing infuriates me more than when I see a young girl struggling to get an education and her Mama says "if you'd just have a baby, you could get all kinds of aid." LAWD, that certainly isn't the answer.
Anyway, we just have to keep encouraging the young people around us and convince them to value themselves and to require more of others. |
Lawchic
Newbie Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:16 pm: |
|
Guess our messages crossed, ABM. Open wide, I'm giving you a bite... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1893
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:21 pm: |
|
Kola,
I could do all you ask...and probably not live to see my grandkids.
Because there is so much being waged against us, both internal and external, that even a good/decent Black men must make a choice to do what they need to survive and take care of their families.
And, frankly, that's not consistent with being a hero.
Please. Don't misunderstand. I am not proud to feel/act like that. Everyday I think I should be doing MORE to help make the schools safer, get rid of the gangs, drugs and corrupt cops.
But having a wife/kids can make a coward out of a man.
Because you think who am I more responsible: My own wife/kids or people I otherwise would never meet or know? The choice is pretty clear to me.
Now, as far as making love to a woman:
I DO consider that to be important to endearing myself to a woman and her to me. That helps to soften the ruff/unempathetic exterior that I have. It helps me to feel alive, to relate to that cosmic part of us all.
I agree that I should not engage in such solely for my own self-gratification. But I won't be made to feel guilty for desiring the flesh of a woman. Because that is truly the most "human" of all exchanges.
PS: I am FOR you my sister. Always have been. Always will be. But I have thoughts/feelings too. So please allow me to express mine as I enjoy witnessing you express yours. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1894
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:27 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
<"ummmmmm">
That's some kinda tasty, Cooky Honey!
<rubbingtummy>
I love it when a chick spoon feeds me red meat. It makes me feel all good and manly inside. 
(Though it is kinda wierd being on the 'receiving end' of a "Open wide, I'm giving you a bite..." request.) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:32 pm: |
|
Well done, lawchic. Sure was glad to reliquish the floor to you when it comes to this subject. And BTW, folks, don't forget all of those fat trashy white gals who guys of their own race wouldn't take a second look at, but who are snaring black men right and left. They treat these brothas like kings and are havin their babies.
And, Kola, when will it dawn on you that you are not in your element in America? Blacks here are not going to pay homage to you. You belong in Sudan. That's where your roots are and that's where your fight is. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:37 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
You know what? I started out a pretty nice/square kid. I actually WANTED to be what I THOUGHT females wanted: considerate, faithful, generous, etc.
And that $#@+ got me vitually NOWHERE. They would play me like a 'gurlfren' while they made out with thugs (real/fake), come back to me to cry about how they were getting misused...THEN go right back to dealing with those same scoundrels.
But I eventually learned that I would have an easier time with females if I messed over them a little (sometimes a lot even). It was only when gave chicks drama that I started getting respect.
In fact, the more they thought I might try to screw their friends, the more they would oblige my 'desires'.
So when I see Kola blaming all the trouble on us guys, I think that's not all I have seen. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1896
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:39 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
"BUUURRRRP!"
Sorry. Haha! That's some kinda tasty meatloaf you done made, chiled.
You didn't put any of that Snoop Dogg indo in it did you? |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 08:05 pm: |
|
I know I'm supposed to be on the silent tip working, but...
The following is an article from Portland State University School of Social Work about "Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome" a theory set forth by Joy DeGruy Leary.
Though she does not address "self-hatred" specifically in this article, she ties contemporary self-destructive behaviors to past abuses during slavery and the perpetuatal psychic trauma exacted on black americans by white supremacy.
What do you all think of this sista's work, and does it apply to the discussion in this thread in any way:
What if you discovered that you were passing down destructive behaviors to your children—behaviors so ingrained that if you could travel through time you'd see your great-great-grandmother doing the very same thing?
You would stop, of course. But deciding that certain actions are damaging, especially ones you've seen over and over again from your own childhood, is not easy.
Joy DeGruy Leary, Social Work faculty, has created an avenue for African Americans to assess their cultural customs and habits, both positive and negative, through her theory of Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. She maintains that the horrendous, centuries-long treatment of African Americans as slaves resulted in emotional and psychological damage. That damage perpetuated certain behaviors—often destructive—that have been passed down from generation to generation. She is not offering excuses for these behaviors, just insight.
An African American herself, DeGruy Leary believes blacks are fully capable of addressing the issues facing them. As a social scientist, she is providing information on where to start. -Kathryn Kirkland, editor
There have been few studies conducted to assess the impact of the traumas associated with the slavery of Africans or the generations that followed them. Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome (PTSS) takes into account multigenerational trauma. Many studies of African Americans have focused on environmental conditions of poverty and crime as predictors of future problems. Only a small number of studies have focused on the social problems resulting from sustained psychological multigenerational trauma. Thus, there is a need to answer questions regarding how contemporary societal stressors along with historical trauma relate to current problems...
I developed the theory of Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome after studying Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), a disorder that has generated profound interest. Many psychological journals, articles, and books have been written with elaborate details of the symptoms, causes, and treatment of this disorder. Individuals and groups said to suffer from PTSD include victims of rape, war veterans, holocaust survivors and their children, victims of incest, heart attack victims, natural disaster survivors, victims of severe accidents, and others.
However, absent from this list are the African American slaves and their offspring. The absence of any therapeutic intervention during or after the advent of slavery would suggest that PTSD among slaves most likely resulted but went untreated.
On September 11, 2001, Americans became more familiar with PTSD. Lots of citizens were reported to be suffering from the disorder as a result of witnessing the destruction of the World Trade Towers and those trapped inside.
With what is known about trauma, is it probable that significant numbers of African slaves experienced a sufficient amount of trauma to warrant a diagnosis of PTSD? The following are a list of some of the conditions that give rise to mental and/or emotional traumas which justify the diagnosis of PTSD and which are consistent with the slave experience:
A serious threat or harm to one's life or physical integrity;
A threat or harm to one's children, spouse, or close relative;
Sudden destruction of one's home or community;
Seeing another person injured or killed as a result of an accident or physical violence;
Learning about a serious threat to a relative or a close friend kidnapped, tortured, or killed;
Experiencing intense fear, terror, and helplessness;
Note: The stressor and disorder is considered to be more serious and will last longer when the stressor is of human design.
It makes sense to me and other theorists that Africans, who were slaves for nearly two and a half centuries and thus labeled as sub-human and treated as chattel, could not possibly emerge unscathed. PTSS theory takes into account the development of survival adaptations necessary for enduring a hostile slave environment and examines how these adaptations, both positive and negative, continue to be reflected in the behaviors of African Americans today.
The question remains, how are such effects of trauma transmitted through generations? The answer is quite straightforward, through the family, the community, and society. How do we learn to raise our children? Almost entirely through our own experience of being raised. Most of us learn how to raise our children to a large degree based upon how we ourselves were raised. Of course there are things our parents did that we decide we'll do differently, but for the most part parenting is one of myriad skills that are passed down generation to generation.
Today we know that if a child has an abusive parent, the likelihood that he or she will grow to be abusive and/or abused is greater than if that child came from a safe and supportive home. We know that if a child comes from a violent home, there is a greater likelihood the child will grow to be violent. We know that if a child comes from a home in which one or both parents went to college, there is a greater likelihood that child will go to college. We know that our children receive most of their attitudes, life skills, and approaches to life from their parents. We also know that most of these are learned by the time they are five or six years old.
I recall overhearing a conversation between black parents and white parents at a school meeting. Their children were classmates and in Little League together. The black mother commented on the achievements of the white parents' child saying, "Your son is really coming along." The white parents responded with pride, "Thank you. He is quite the man. He's in the talented and gifted program here at the school, and he's an excellent player on the Little League team. In fact, he has really excelled in school as well as sports this year. He's just like his father."
The white parents went on for some time before they remembered the gifts and talents of the black parents' child. The white couple praised his numerous accomplishments, saying, "Your son is also doing quite well. I hear . . ." But before they could complete the compliment, the black parents, who were also proud of their son said, "Oh, he's such a mess at home. Sometimes we could just strangle him."
Roll the scene back a few hundred years to a slave master walking through the fields and coming upon a slave family. The slave master remarks, "Well now, that Johnny of yours is really coming along." The slave parents, terrified that the slave master may see qualities in their son or daughter that could merit sale or rape, say, "No sir, he ain't worth nothing. He can't work. He's feeble and shiftless."
The denigrating statements are an effort to dissuade the slave master from molesting or selling the children, and of course in understanding their motives, no one would fault them. This behavior was nothing special. After all, slave mothers and fathers had been belittling their children in an effort to protect them for a couple of hundred years.
The theory of PTSS suggests there could be a connection between the behavior of the slave family and that of the modern day school parents. What originally began as an appropriate adaptation to an oppressive and danger-filled environment was subsequently transmitted down through generations. While on the surface seemingly harmless, such behavior serves to both humiliate and injure the young black children of today who can't understand why their parents speak so poorly of them. All too often these children actually begin to believe the demeaning criticisms. Furthermore these criticisms create feelings of being disrespected by the very people who they love and trust the most, their parents.
We know from research conducted on other groups that experienced oppression and trauma that survivor syndromes exist and are pervasive in the human development of second- and third-generation offspring. The characteristics of survivor syndrome include stress, self-doubt, problems with aggression, and a number of psychological and interpersonal relationship problems with family members and others.It stands to reason that the African American experience carries with it a host of stressors that are compounded when the issue of poverty is added...
Today, the African American community is made up of individuals and families who collectively share survival behaviors from prior generations. Most of these behaviors ensured our survival at one time or another. However, today many of these behaviors will inhibit our ability to survive and thrive if they are not brought to light, examined, and, where necessary, replaced.
The following is an example of a socially learned behavior that PTSS theory suggests can trace its roots in historical adaptations.
Whenever I am in a place of business, I like to observe the behaviors of people waiting in line. I am particularly interested in the behaviors of African Americans, which are often in stark contrast to the behaviors of European Americans and other groups. On one such occasion there was a black mother in a bank with three small children. The children were standing close to their mother. Whenever one of them would become curious about someone or something in the bank and attempted to leave the mother's side, the mother would verbally chastise the child, snapping her fingers and gesturing to the child to immediately return to her side.
In the same line there was another mother standing and waiting for an available teller. Only she was white. She also had several small children similar in age to the black mother's children. The mother had her hands full trying to stay in line while her little boy wandered about skipping, twirling, rolling on the floor, and asking questions of the bank security guard. The white mother did not insist that her children stand by her side. Instead, she tried to keep an eye on them and apologized to the people in line who her children were obviously annoying.
Once the black mother was busy with the teller, one of her children, a little girl, slid down the length of the counter hidden from her mother's sight. Another black mother waiting in line saw her down beneath the counter and did something that is all too familiar to African American children; she gave the attempted escapee the "black mother's death stare" and gestured with a slight move of her head for her to return to her mother's side, which the child did with lowered head. Both women had sent a message to the black children that this is not a place for them, but the children could see that it was an OK place for white children to play, explore, and interact freely.
With the historical lens of slavery one can now better understand why the mother in the bank insisted that her children be near her. In the slave environment, it was inherently unsafe for a black child to stray, wander, or question white people. Such behavior could result in severe punishment or even death. Thus, black slaves were hyper-vigilant about the whereabouts of their children, for such hyper-vigilance meant survival.
This is just one possible example of an adaptive behavior that could have been passed down through generations. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands more.Two of the great strengths that African Americans possess are our resilience and our ability to adapt. These have allowed us to survive and thrive in the presence of seemingly insurmountable obstacles with courage and faith. These adaptive behaviors were invaluable throughout the duration of slavery, and the need for these behaviors continued after emancipation. Thousands of lynchings, beatings, threats to life and property, the rise of the Klan and Jim Crow segregation all obviated the continued need for adaptive survival behaviors. And reminders still exist: the 1989 beating death of Mulugeta Seraw by skinheads in Portland; the 1992 police beating of Rodney King in Los Angeles; the 1997 burning and beheading of Garnett P. Johnson in Virginia; the 1998 dragging death of James Byrd in Jasper, Texas; and the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo by New York police officers, to name but a few.
Adaptations from slavery have generated behaviors that have led to assumptions about who and what we are as a people, and additionally, what we can become and achieve. While what we have learned from generations past is a significant part of our story, it is not our whole story, and many new chapters need to be written that bring to light the destructive nature of some of our survivor behaviors....
There is still much work to be done in assessing our needs as African Americans and understanding the impact of the traumas and injuries sustained during and after slavery.
Dr. Joy DeGruy Leary |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 349
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:07 pm: |
|
Kathleen,
Thanks so much, but I assure you---they're so busy with what "THEY WANT" instead of what our children "NEED"---it's going to go right over their heads.
That's a good article, but it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface, because one thing about Black People (WORLDWIDE)...they are the most stubborn, ass-backwards people ON EARTH....and much of that comes from being slaves as well.
And the "slave mentality" is just as prevalent on the continent of Africa as it is over here. Colonialism, AIDS and slavery IN AFRICA has turned MILLIONS of African offspring into self-hating, infantile, lost "white supremacists" with BLACK SKIN. It is TRULY tragic.
South Africa, Sudan, West Africa, Kenya and Ethiopia....are OVERFLOWING with "Pogo-Niggers".
CYNIQUE...
Just the fact that you think the struggle in SUDAN....is "separate" from yours in America....is proof positive that you're not a very smart woman and that it's YOU who belongs in Sudan.
As long as any one of us is a slave.....we shall ALL be slaves.
You're not part of the solution for blacks, you're part of the problem.
Another spoiled, middle class COMFORTABLE _______ of ....."infinite interests" (applause sign)..... who doesn't have the intellect or the self-worth to LEAVE BEHIND a shred of fucking hope for OUR PEOPLE....but yet and still, wants to tack her Head Nigga Bitch Papers on the tail of the HUMAN RACE---as if we weren't members of that from Day One, and in fact, started the shit from scratch.
You think these black fuckers in America are any better off than the ones in Sudan?
Our ancestors are DISGUSTED by ALL of us!!!
We HAVE NOT redeemed them or even tried.
We haven't achieved SHIT!!! NOTHING!!!
And the first thing out of your goddamned mouths is how can we BREED some more of our ancestor's faces off the planet......how can we get CLOSER to our slave master's butthole.....in the name of "progress" and "modernity".
Why don't you motherfuckers just go back and start calling yourself "COLORED" and "NEGRO" again and hide behind the church...gett'n on GOD's fucking nerves.....and proclaim, "The Black Man! The Black Man! The Black Man!"
It takes COMPETENT mothers, you weak ass haint.
|
Lawchic
Regular Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:18 pm: |
|
Interesting. I see myself in the "black mother's death stare." But I recognize other behaviors too. My oldest son is a child who tends to daydream alot. So,when he was very young, his teachers thought he might have ADD. I knew that he didn't, but to satisfy them I invited them to choose a psychologist for me to take him to for testing. I wouldn't choose the psychologist because I believed they would minimize the findings that I knew would come. So, we go to the psych of their choosing and he tests my son. He says that he scores in the 98th percentile on his achievement test with an IQ of about 130. But, he is confused. Although he believes my son to be very intelligent he is concerned about some social skills that seemed to be odd to him. I ask him what he means and he gives me an example. He says that he told my son that someone had dropped a wallet on the floor in a department store and asked my son, what he should do about it. According to the psych, the expected answer was to pick up the wallet and deliver it to someone in authority. My son's response was to leave the wallet alone, find his parent and inform them of the lost wallet.
I proceeded to advise the psych that this is what we mean when we tell school administrators that standardized tests are culturally biased. If a black child were found in the middle of a busy department store holding someone's wallet, store security would have him face down on the floor for stealing it. The psych was appalled to know that we think this way. I told him, you people really don't understand the reality of racism. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1705
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:30 pm: |
|
Your struggle is not my struggle, Kola. And you can take that statement ANYWAY you want. You are not the center of my universe and your histrionics do not move me. I'm not Afro-centric and there's no law that says I have to be. You are not a prophet, you are a dreamer with self-centered hopes. Your sons are not my priority, just like my sons are not yours because they don't look like yours. We travel on separate paths and my heirs have just as good a chance of survival as yours because nobody knows what the future holds. So continue your crusade, but I am not your follower. Kathleen Cross may anoint you, but I don't. Get it? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 354
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:39 pm: |
|
And Lawchic---
You KNOW your son is right!!
Shit, they may even throw his ass on floor AFTER he does what he said, just for being the one who found it.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1706
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:02 am: |
|
As for the article, it may surprise you that it didn't really tell me anything I don't know. I've been there, done that. I attended mostly white schools where I never sucked up to white classmates and actually staved off the pests who gravitated toward my crowd, seeking our friendship. I've worked with white people all of my life and my co-workers all knew better than to bug me. My children also went to integrated schools and once the teachers met me, they didn't mess with my kids - and they didn't need to. My kids don't have complexes and or are they color struck. All of us know white folks for what they are, and we know how to manipulate them. I don't feel the need to despise whites because to do so is to give away some of my humanity. I've never been rejected by my own race because my aura communicates a messsage of kinship. And you know what I attribute this to? The good ol natural born, mother-wit and instinct that is my slave heritage. Yes, the racial divide is a chasm, but you just have to know how get over. |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:03 am: |
|
Cynique,
Why would you hurl me at Kola as your weapon?
I do not annoint or "follow" ANY human being... my allegiance is to my CREATOR -- to which it is my hope to RETURN in the healthiest spiritual condition possible.
That spiritual condition, I believe, is dependent upon my ability/willingness to recognize MY CREATOR in myself and my fellow human beings, and to LOVE what I recognize.
My love for Kola contains NO allegiance to what you refer to as her "crusade," but to the reflection of DIVINITY I recognize in her.
PERIOD.
There are beliefs Kola has that I do not share, but I am not driven to argue her over to "my way of thinking" on those things.
Kola has lived a life I cannot dream of. Her way of thinking is long-earned and it is HERS. My beliefs and ideas about race and the human family are the result of my own struggles, and they are mine.
Must Kola and I hate and fight one another to comfort you and Moon? |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:08 am: |
|
Lawchic said:
I proceeded to advise the psych that this is what we mean when we tell school administrators that standardized tests are culturally biased. If a black child were found in the middle of a busy department store holding someone's wallet, store security would have him face down on the floor for stealing it. The psych was appalled to know that we think this way. I told him, you people really don't understand the reality of racism.
Lawchic,
You missed the discussion about the culturally biased standardized testing in public schools that we were having on this board not too long ago. I think you would have enjoyed it. Unfortunately it fell by the wayside because of an untimely and unwelcome lunar eclipse.
The second part of your paragraph so briefly yet precisely frames the problem of subtle racism. the instance of how a black child would handle a found wallet in a department store so illuminates the differences in how our children are taught culturally and how that difference impacts every area of thier lives!
This subtle form of racism is also the reason why many white people are able to look away and pretend that the problems of racism no longer exist and that we AA's only imagine that the problem wasn't solved way back when "Licoln freed the slaves"
Lawchic, welcome, and thank you for adding your voice and a fresh, strong perspective to this board.
Damn! see what you miss when you allow yourself to get caught up in useless bullshit? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:21 am: |
|
As I said, Kathleen, unlike me, you are a benevolent person. You have steadfastly lent Kola the support she so desperately craves, and when you do so you, in effect, dismiss her detractors. And don't think Kola wouldn't use you as a weapon against me. It's rough, out here, girlfriend. No holds barred. |
Lawchic
Regular Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:22 am: |
|
A-Woman, thanks for the welcome. You remind me of another not-so-subtle situation. I have had a white secretary for a long time. Some years ago, a white woman came into my office for a consultation. My secretary took her information and as the woman sat down to wait she noticed some of my family photos. She came back to my secretary and said "Is this lawyer black?" When my secretary answered that I was, she immediately gathered her things and left.
My secretary was outraged and couldn't believe it. I could. I think my secretary was one of those white women who really believed that racism was something that is in our imaginations. But she couldn't deny that event. She was flabbergasted. My secretary couldn't understand why I wasn't upset. I told her don't worry about the woman because I didn't have the time or energy to win her case and overcome her prejudice.
So, there are some white people who are starting to see what is going on. Don't know if enough of them will have those kinds of experiences to open their eyes, but at least they are seeing it and know that it is not in our imaginations. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1090
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:39 am: |
|
Lawchic,
You're welcome. Yes the slightly less than overt racism you cite goes on everyday. STILL, though we are living in the 21st century. We are bombarded with it, yet when we try to call it to someones attention, say our place of employment, white people in power have become so adept at camoflaging their racism under the guise of policies, rules, and regulations, that you are hardpressed to prove an instance of racism that you KNOW for a fact has transpired. This would be true of both subtle, covert, and overt practices of discrimination and racism.
You and others who have suggested that some white people are waking up to the knowledge that racism may have gone undercover but hasn't gone away, may be right, but I'm wondering how many of those comfortable white folks that have awakened would be willing to rock the boat, and even capsize that sucker, for the sake of a black person. Because if the boat capsizes, that white person has to risk going overboard too. Im not so sure that any of them are ready to risk that.
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:40 am: |
|
Cynique,
Putting words in someone elses mouth is not one of my preferred tactics for getting my idea across, but given your description of "out here" as "rough" I can see how you might believe desperate times might call for desperate measures.
MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE... If you're going to hurl me as a weapon...at least hurl me accurately and don't go haphazardly annointing folks in my name.
OF course, I cannot control what you write. But that is my preference. Thanks.
|
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1091
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:42 am: |
|
You know lawchic, as Im reading and writing Im shaking my head, because lately posting on this board feels like I've been transported back in time and we still fighting the same dumb bullshit battles that our great grandmas fought and singing "We shall overfreakincome!" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1711
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:58 am: |
|
Ok, Kathleen, I'll respect your wishes, especially since you haven't said anything else that I think could be used as a "weapon." And the "out here" that I mentioned was in reference to Thumper's Corner. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:04 am: |
|
I know you weren't talking to me, a-womon, but in respose to what sounded like your disillusionment, things go in cycles, and when racism continues to exist, then The Struggle goes on because it's never been won. I said once before that things seem to be regressing and Abm jumped all over my ass. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 355
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:07 am: |
|
Kathleen, it's sad....
...but what really is the problem is that MANY PEOPLE really have short attention spans (this is a t.v. nation)....and the depth of what I speak about is so....disturbing and scary......that they can only glean the surface.
In that way.....they believe that I am just a RACIST against whites and light people....a "separatist". Things that are really not true.
SO...obviously they totally expected me to dislike you (being that you're "black" and look white) and for you to pick up the ignorance of the nation--the vibe of the society.
It never occurs to them that women like you and I are truly NOT RACISTS for the simple fact that we want "real human unity"....and not simply the RAINBOW coalition lip service that has traditionally claimed acceptance for all---but then excluded those same old undesirables....I don't even have to name them.
Notice the righteous indignation that overcomes those HIGHER in the color hierarchy when a Black Woman has the GALL, the NERVE to demand a better station for herself or to stick up for herself at all.
Notice how Cynique said that I don't belong here--I belong in Africa. Imagine the enormity of what she is saying and imagine how thoroughly a woman like MOON would MORE than agree with her.
And then one can imagine why your CHOICE to understand....seems so eerie and out of place to them.
But the fact is...you CHOSE to connect to the centuries of African people who live in you. You CHOSE to be African, because you are willing...to accept the truth and to love those who MOST desperately need your love and attention.
People who LOOOVE you....tell you the truth.
And people DIE if you don't love them.
The blue black people (who were once the majority of blacks in this country)...are PROOF of that.
|
Linda
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Linda
Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:27 am: |
|
Well ladies. Is it possible we are all having trouble getting to bed tonight? I was just lurking around and now I'm glad see I'm not the only one still clicking the keys. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:33 am: |
|
You can emerse yourself in reflective melancholy, Kola, and portray your self as this all embracing earth mother, but nobody is more exclusionary and elitist than you. It's always the world according to Kola. You set the rules and use color as your litmus test. Your personal history becomes the barometer we must all adhere to, and the solutions you provide are for your particular problems. That's why you and I can never agree. If you would just promote your cause and welcome those of your persuasion into the fold and be about your task, then I would leave you alone. But, no, you keep trying to "reform" me and show me the error of my ways. So why don't you just forget about Cynique and the fact that she sees things differently than you. I'll leave you be, if you'll leave me be. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:37 am: |
|
Hey, Linda. I been trying to sign off for over an hour now. Lucky for me I don't have to get up early in the morning. I've always been a night owl. I think I'm gone for good now. I've made everyone mad so my work here is done. LOL |
Linda
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Linda
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:48 am: |
|
Ahhh Cynique...you know the work is never done...it's endless. LOL! So get your rest and awaken to fight again tomorrow.
Ciao |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:56 am: |
|
I have to go out in this rainstorm (it does rain in southern california, toni tony tone) to pick up my daughter... peace, SisterS |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 358
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 02:37 am: |
|
Yes, it's quite early in California.
And Kathleen, isn't this rain something tonight?
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1901
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:08 pm: |
|
Daddy's Home!
Kola,
My Dear Sweet Sister.
When will you realize that women are no more ennobled than men? You ladies are just as selfish, petty and greedy as us.
(See you favorite foil, Cynique.)
Worse, you have this inanely hypocritical streak that deludes you into thinking and behaving as though you are better than men.
And that, ironically, is part of the reason why guys stay a step ahead of you chicks.
Because while you trouble yourselves with fantasies of achieving some ennobled state, most guys know/accept that we probably ain’t worth a d*mn and if we were at gunpoint made to validate and justify our lives, we’d probably be shot dead enmasse.
Thus we can live more mentally/emotionally efficient lives than you.
Kathleen,
Thanks for sharing the article. What conclusions do you draw from it?
BTW: I have cooked up some ‘material’ for you. But I ain’t sure if I should use it.
Lawchic,
If our problems with standardardize stem from cultural bias, how do you explain that 1st and 2nd generation Americans often out-perform those of use whose lineage has resided here since before the even was an United States of America?
PS: Let your son daydream. And don't worry too much about what he does in school. Just expose him to as broad variety of people, places and things as possible. And he'll probably become inspired by some of that and blossum into some wondrous scientist, discover or artist.
A_womon,
I agree with that few if any Whites are willing to "capsize that sucker". I also, however, doubt that most Blacks would do the same if the circumstances were reversed.
Because no matter how ‘brave’ and ‘righteous’ we want to pretend we are, most of us are not willing to risk much of anything for others, especially those who look/behave differently from us.
That is not a uniquely White or Black problem. That’s a HUMAN problem.
Cynique,
You know we both enjoy it when I done "jumped all over [your] @$$". Cause I can really bang the dents out. |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
|
Kola,
Your statement:
"we (Kola and Kathleen) want "real human unity"....and not simply the RAINBOW coalition lip service that has traditionally claimed acceptance for all---but then excluded those same old undesirables....
could not MORE PERFECTLY describe my feeling about the issue of interracialism.
TRUE HUMAN UNITY...NOW THERE's A CONCEPT
ABM,
Regarding the "PTSS" article:
Joy DeGruy Leary is my sister and my friend. I have known her for over 30 years and our children are first cousins. I say that to say that I am intimately familiar with her journey towards "naming" PTSS as a way to "get at" what so insidiously destructs black love, black family, black self-concept, black entrepreneurship, black financial saavy, etc. etc. (AARRRRRGGGHHHHHH)<<agony scream, etc. I know Joy...and I know her motive is LOVE.
I have sat in the audience while Joy addressed weeping, nodding college students (at a hip hop conference, no less) who see (some, for the FIRST time in their lives) the TANGIBLE connection between the atrocity of slavery and self-destructive beliefs and behaviors in the black community currently. My sister is about the work of HEALING.
Having said that, I must also say that I am TERRIFIED of what white academia will do with this "theory." We hear "multigenerational trauma" and think "YES...LET US HEAL" they hear "WE KNEW THEY WERE SICK..." and thus begins THEIR version of healing which, in my mind, opens the door for the pharmeceutical companies.
IF PTSS is added to the DSMIV (the official diagnosis manual psychology "professionals" use to determine what brand of sickness you have, and therefore what brand of medication you need), WHAT COMES NEXT?
PROFITS. PERIOD.
I LOOOOAAAATHE the pharmaceutical industry. I have ZEEEEEEEEERO trust for it/them. I shake my head at american "law" that will lock a marijuana distributor in jail for LIFE, yet allows pharmaceutical companies on the CAMPUSES of ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS to turn our CHILDREN into RITALIN ADDICTS.
SO... I hope Joy KEEPS ownership of this theory, and guards it FEROCIOUSLY.
PLEASE DON'T LET THEM OWN OR USURP ANY PART OF IT.
|
Lawchic
Regular Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 03:58 pm: |
|
ABM and Kathleen:
ABM said: "If our problems with standardardize stem from cultural bias, how do you explain that 1st and 2nd generation Americans often out-perform those of use whose lineage has resided here since before the even was an United States of America?"
I truly do believe it is like Kathleen's friend theorizes. It is the result of slavery and coping mechanisms that we created that account for our behavioral, social differences. But if we're talking about 1-2 Generation immigrants right now, I would assert that the countries of the world are sending their best and brightest here to be educated and that educational systems in other countries are much different than ours and in all likelihood are superior (especially Japan's).
Kathleen said: "Having said that, I must also say that I am TERRIFIED of what white academia will do with this "theory." We hear "multigenerational trauma" and think "YES...LET US HEAL" they hear "WE KNEW THEY WERE SICK..." and thus begins THEIR version of healing which, in my mind, opens the door for the pharmeceutical companies.
IF PTSS is added to the DSMIV (the official diagnosis manual psychology "professionals" use to determine what brand of sickness you have, and therefore what brand of medication you need), WHAT COMES NEXT?"
I'll tell you what's next. It's just one more excuse for teachers to opt out of working with our kids. Just like all the ADD, ADHD, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and crack babies, they will just stick our kids in a Special Ed room and ignore them until they graduate. Especially with this No Child Left Behind crap. If they don't have money in public schools for what the Federal government is requiring them to do, they damn sure won't have any money to deal with PTSS. Tell your girl to keep this thing in-house and counsel our own people on how to deal with it.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1911
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 04:01 pm: |
|
Kathleen,
Thanks for providing additional background info.
Hmmmm?
I agree with your concern about the drug industry viewing what your sister proposes as another potential income stream.
But what scares me more are the following:
@ HOW do we unravel all of what has happened to us in a way that leaves us better off and doesn’t take 500 years to achieve?
@ The world, especially not the White man’s world, won’t STOP while we Blacks figure out who/what we are. So even if we devise what is presumably an effective scheme to achieve a fuller, healthier state, we still will have to concurrently fight off the machinations of the outer-world that relentlessly wage against us.
@ And how do multiracial people (like yourself) related within the calculus of what your sister hypothecize? How does the spirits of the oppress reconciled with their oppressors when they so closely reside within a single soul?
I appreciate what your sister is attempting to do. It definitely offer an opportunity for us to consider where we are and why. But I think even she would agree that she offers but a single step in a journey that will span over a 1,000 miles.
PS: You are BAD, Mellow Yellow. No doubt. Cause I ain’t seen NOBODY around here handle Cynique with the style and aplomb that you have.
Hehe! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1912
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 04:08 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
I agree that it is from the past that today and tomorrow is made. And it is (perhaps) correct that the smartest 'furriners' make it to the US, thus their offspring do well here.
But when can we begin to view our trouble less from the perspective of slavery and more from that of our kids watching too much BET? |
Lawchic
Regular Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 05:19 pm: |
|
ABM: LAWD! I fight that battle daily. I simply limit television viewing for my kids by keeping them involved in sports and other extra-curricular activities, e.g. they have do do volunteer work for their Sunday school class. But the more effective thing I think that I do is to let them know that there is a distinct difference between what they see on TV and reality. For, example, just because Janet Jackson struts around on stage in a bustier doesn't mean she goes to the grocery store like that. Her costumes are part of her career, not part of her everyday life.
My children and I watch television together quite a bit and I let them choose the programming and we discuss what we see. So, they know what's real and what's not. My older son is 15 and my daughter 13. I think by doing these things together and talking about them, they are getting a good set of values. Kola mentions R.Kelly frequently. I have talked with both my children about his situation and they understand all the fuss. Consequently, whether is found guilty or not, they don't have any appreciation for him. They are disgusted by his behavior.
My older son is a real black history buff. he sat down with me and watched Ed Bradley's 60 Minutes story on Emmitt Till Sunday night. He is very politically astute also. Very interested in the upcoming election and very outraged by the last one. Maybe he'll be our first black President. But at the same time, I don't rule out my daughter either.
My husband got the shock of his life when his oldest daughter became an Army ROTC cadet. She will be commissioned in Dec. So, for him, it is his daughter and not his son following in his footsteps. That was a revelation for him.
All in all, we're doing the best we can to raise good human beings who can think for themselves.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1925
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 05:36 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
BRAVO!
I commend your efforts to raise healthy/aware children.
And some of what you say mirror what I do. I watch TV within my 14/9 year olds. We too talk about how to distinguish fact and fiction.
And we have talked about the R Kelly thing a lot, though certainly nothing especially gratuitous. They view are the same as those of your kids and they stingently avoid observing his music/videos.
It is a blessing to witness your children grow into fully formed and blossuming human beings. I am so excited for my daughters, though I am scared for them to.
But I have done and will continue to do the best I can and leave the rest in GOD's hands. |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 05:49 pm: |
|
ABM,
You ask: "HOW do we unravel all of what has happened to us in a way that leaves us better off and doesn’t take 500 years to achieve?"
To me, THAT really is the question of questions.
HOW DOES a human being (or a community) DISCARD their responses to trauma when many of those RESPONSES were the SURVIVAL mechanisms that brought them through the trauma in the first place?
I don't know. But I will offer an example from my own life of a trauma I'd buried that kept resurfacing in destructive ways in my life until my man (my best friend) helped me discover the origin of my behavior. (I really done lost my damn mind to put this out here, but here goes.)
Please keep in mind that I am in NO WAY comparing this example to the ATROCITIES of slavery -- there is NOTHING in my life COMPARABLE. This is one of Kathleen's little bouts with TRAUMA. And it is my story of how the child I was at three constructed a defense mechanism to survive that trauma. A survival "skill" that later in life threatened (threatens) all my relationships.
My parents split when I was three and I have NO memory of it. NONE. My father resurfaced in my life when I was eight, and I have no memory of that resurfacing either. Gone one minute here the next is all I can say about it. SO, there is a FIVE YEAR span where my feelings (anger? sorrow? anguish? aching?) about my father's disappearance are non-existent. I can't feel anything about it whatsoever... which is ODD since my father who tucked me into bed every night until age three, ABANDONED ME. When he returned, and until the day he died, our relationship remained consistent and loving, but somewhat "crisp". (By crisp I mean...I loved my daddy but was never really vulnerable with him. My love for him had no, or at least few, soft edges.)
In my adult life, in my relationships, I am a LEAVER. I will be ALONE before I will be left alone. I have NEVER been abandoned by a man. NEVER. NO, that's not true -- there is ONE exception: my fiance, Todd, recently drowned in the ocean and "abandoned me" without warning -- an incident I almost did not survive. (even now, tears are gathering in my eyes)
In my life, I have ALWAYS been the one doing the leaving and I have always done it before he (boyfriend, husband, lover) could plan to. Being LEFT was NOT on my list of things to experience ...EVER...and that, I now believe, is my response to my daddy leaving me. (I do recognize that some women construct the OPPOSITE response, and will cling to a man whom they really should leave, but humans are complex, and our responses to trauma are complex too.)
As you can imagine, my propensity to leave WREAKS HAVOC in my life, and it has affected my daughters, and impacted them in ways I shudder to think about. (I stayed with their dad for eleven years before I got ghost).
I made passionate love to my second husband the night before I drove off in a U-haul truck to move to ANOTHER STATE. (So much, Cynique, for your description of me as benevolent) Though I had "very good cause" to leave him, ABANDONING someone is the ultimate power move, and it is just plain mean.
Well, enter, Todd. Somehow this man figured me out WAAAAAY in advance. Two years into the relationship we were in the middle of a critical argument, and I was having this silent conversation in my head while he was talking:
("Fuck this shit,I don't NEED this. I can and WILL move on to the next one.")
During our argument Todd SAW me plotting. I mean he SAW my THOUGHTS. And he sat back in his chair and said, "Look at you, baby. Look at your body language. You are on your way out the door." It was then that he pointed out to me, in the calmest most loving tone, my propensity for RUNNING AWAY. (Of course I had never thought of it as "running" ugh how weak. I called it JUSTIFIABLE LEAVING) Made me feel stronger to think of it that way.
As we together tried to unravel where I'd learned this defense tactic, Todd asked me about my earliest memories of my father... he took me back to that moment when my daddy left, and I swear, I SOBBED and SOBBED and SOBBED like the three-year old I was back then.
It was then that I realized that little 3-year old bitch (sorry Todd, I know you hate it when I call her that) was destroying my chance at ever developing a deep, lasting relationship with a man 'cause she knew what it felt like to ACHE for a man to come home and VOWED never to feel that pain again. (I have created this "picture" in my head of me at three years old crying for my daddy and rocking myself to sleep at night -- though I still have no memory of it)
My point is that in my relationship with Todd I vowed NOT to leave when I got scared. I dug in my heels when I felt emotionally terrified and I consciously moved TOWARDS him (physically and emotionally) instead of AWAY (which was excruciating at first for me to do) ONce I could connect my behavior to the trauma, it did not take long for me to change...
On the real, my gut-level response to emotional fear still lives in me, but I know its there now, so I can remain vigilant to keep that little girl's fear at bay.
Todd LOVED ME. He KNEW me and LOVED what he KNEW -- he even loved the ugly ways in me 'cause he saw and understood how they got there. I learned from the "free therapy" he practiced on me, to CHANGE a destructive behavior, and I benefited gloriously from what I learned -- as have my daughters, for whom my change has the most profound meaning.(and their daughters...and their daughters daughters...you see?)
NOW I realize THAT story does not come close to the ATROCITY of self-loathing and family disintegration that slavery exacted on Black souls, but it IS an example of how powerful the concept of HEALING becomes. WE CANNOT HEAL WHAT WE CANNOT CONNECT TO.
I think Joy is trying to help us connect the trauma sustained by BLACK PEOPLE in AMERICA to those survival strategies that are WREAKING HAVOC in our communites through self-hatred, mysogyny, abandonment, etc.
That is why so much of what Kola says resonates in my heart. The healing is not going to come from outsiders who don't LOVE (really love) BLACK PEOPLE.
Morrison's The Bluest Eye and Beloved are examples of the human response to the trauma of slavery and white supremacy. In Beloved, Baby Suggs was about HEALING the community and she could BE ABOUT HEALING because she loved her BLACK SELF and loved the BLACK COMMUNITY -- even though she clearly saw the HORRIBLE effects slavery had exacted on those loved ones. But she sacrificed every bit of what she had EMOTIONALLY, SPIRITUALLY and PHYSICALLY on her people's behalf...and died of a broken heart. Where are the HEROS and SHEROES among us willing to do that?
|
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 11:27 pm: |
|
Kathleen,
No wonder you're a writer! I am so sorry you lost the man you could finally run TOWARDS and not away from, I know that is really hard for you. But, as your story tells, he didn't leave you alone, he truly LOVED you, and you him. It shows in your story. And one thing about true love is it never dies. No you can't continue to show Todd you love him, but you can carry the love he taught you into other relationships, not just with the other men to come, but with all of us, and all who you come in contact with as well. I hope this message doesn't offend you, cause I mean it in a comforting manner.
I hope one day I meet a man that I will love and who will love me back like that. (I aint lookin for none right now though, Im having too much fun!) |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 01:11 am: |
|
A_Womon,
Your message does not offend... on the CONTRARY,
I thank you for feeling me. It's been two years since Todd went home, and though I've tried dating a couple of times over the last couple of months... Hmm. Well, lets just say right now I'm okay with being by myself.
Have that fun, sister, and when you're ready to meet him... I wish you LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1928
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 10:34 am: |
|
Kathleen,
It is clear why you are a successful writer. Because you have the gift of giving generously of your story and spirit without appearing sappy or self-indulgent.
And the analogies between your personal journey and those of our people provide a helpful platform upon which we might ponder how to progress both individually and enmasse.
But you are close enough in person/spirit to what ails you. What if, instead, your troubles, like those of our people, transcend myriad space and time?
Or simply: What if you were at least 5 lifetimes immersed from abandonment issues you recount?
Can they be reconciled within our whisper brief lifetimes? Or will we require 3, 5 or even 10 generations of Black to fully evolve?
I guess when I consider the enormity of slavery, I winch at almost any notion of reconciling the innumerable permutations that slavery/racism have wrought.
I don’t despair.
Rather, I am asking these questions to plumb the depths of what will be required for us to move forward.
May GOD continue to provide you the strength and faith to survive your man’s homegoing. And as you ponder over whether/how to love again, please know that he would want the love he imparted to you to live on, and grow...through you. |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 02:46 pm: |
|
ABM,
Your point is WELL TAKEN.
We cannot dispair...but the struggle IS overwhelming and daunting
You SAID it in two words: "innumerable permutations"
Thank you for your wishes of strength and faith. |
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 03:28 pm: |
|
I am currently reading Randall Robinson's
"Quitting America"
In chapter two, entitled "Man-Boy"
Robinson writes of his encounter with a group of young black men near his hotel in New York:
"...threading my way through them, people I used to know, they me, but no longer. The faces are adolescent but too knowing, old from unnatural experience, at once expressionless and quietly menacing...They are the children of long-sown seed, old burned Civil War cannister packed with live grapeshot, marked: DANGEROUS IF NOT TREATED. They are slavery's harvest.
They look at me blankly without connection. I can mean no more to them than they manage to mean to themselves.
I am mildly ashamed of my reaction. This fuguelike feeling, however, is overtaken by another more selfish emotion. I--man of the people, race man, foundering activist, aging pan-Africanist--I--after a lifetime of the work they forced those of us who cared to do--I--an escapee, a lucky victim with lucky loving victim parents--I on this cold, flat desolated street in Rochester, New York, navigate the slouched ranks of our future and feel fear of the small, privately humiliating kind, and then fear's firstborn, utter hopelessness...
...Man-boy once had a family but it was dismembered by slavery like a life-giving river dammed generations before, many lifetimes upstream. He had a house that wasn't much to speak of, but his homelessness is spiritual in any case. He had a father but his father was run off without his manhood centuries ago. And he had a mother (which was about all he had left) for whom mothering under the weight of America could be likened to the futility of a salmon struggling spastically to swim up a parched arroyo to spawn.
He had a history, a story of his people, that began on a plain in Ethiopia when humans pulled themselves upright thousands upon thousands of years before. But he had not been told his story, thus he believed, unlike the people of other races, that he had no story to be told, no tapestry of ageless accomplishment...
...It is painful to look at him now without a language with which to tell him who he was and who he was supposed to become before it happened. And now he has been caused to forget even that there had been an it except as a mouthed academic refrain or the wall-side work of a graffiti activist.
I do not know what to say to him because I know of no other example in the modern world where millions of people from a single racial group had been stripped of everything save respiratory function--mother, father, child, property, language, culture, religion, freedom, dignity, and sometimes, even genitalia.
Now he is a menace to society. He knows this but not how he became this. He really doesn't give a fuck, either. He knows his name but not who he is. He simply cannot remember. His memory was stolen from him...even if he knew he had lost something or had something taken from him, he would have thought a measure more of himself. As it was, he thought nothing of himself because he was, he concluded, nothing.
But somebody gon pay. Maybe even this old muthafucka coming up da street lookin' at me."
---
Immutable permeations...INDEED
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 396
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 03:51 pm: |
|
Kathleen....
Randall Robinson is one of my most favorite men in the world. I love him dearly.
But I have one problem with this portion of his book...and it's one that I think is a major impediment to "African-Americans" in general...
...and that is....
...the CONSTANT
ideation with "Ethiopia" rather than the land of THEIR ancestors, "West Africa".
Anyone can look at Mr. Robinson (and his wife) and see that both are clearly filled with West African blood. Yet there is this insidious rejection of West Africa and a "false" kinship with Ethiopia.
First of all....the nation that is NOW called Ethiopia....is not the Ethiopia spoken in about in the HOLY BIBLE.
Neither NUBIA nor KUSH are anywhere near modern day Ethiopia. They are in Sudan. Completely.
Ethiopians, of all Africans, are without peer, the MOST prejudiced against Black Americans. They like your tourist dollars (as Egyptians do) but they make the most ribald jokes about Black Americans. Only on American soil have I seen Egyptians and Ethiopians even PRETEND to claim Black Americans.
Meanwhile, the Senegalese and Gambians and Ghanians....who were the FIRST humans to deal with iron ore and who had the world's greatest library in Timbuktu (Mali) and whose cultures go THOUSANDS of years and who LOOOOOVE Black Americans....are virtually ignored by their own offspring.
I have to agree with those who say that the African American chooses to identify with Egypt and Ethiopia, because there is the perception that these people are lighter skin, with thin noses and (sometimes) been-to hair.
And I think that any "searching for historical belonging" done by African Americans is GREATLY....and tragically....."distorted" by this ridiculuous coveting of nations that are really not in the blood.
What do you think about that?
|
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:01 pm: |
|
I don't think his reference to Ethiopia was anything more than acknowledging where scientists have claimed they found the oldest human skeleton (that being of a black woman) and their theory that this area is where modern man (as we know man today) began. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 397
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:03 pm: |
|
OH...
I forgot to leave out the thing that West Africa is MOST famous for contributing to the world:
"the dukan cake" (phat ass) of the West African woman, which has now become a world phenomenon.
East African and North African women do not possess such an abundance of ass as our sisters in the West do.
If you ever go to Senegal or Ghana...you will think that SOME of the women have giant pads up under their dresses---but they don't. Those women have got BIG, SHAPELY ASSES.....and the whole world has ALWAYS been fascinated by that and her FULL lips.
There is much to proud of in West Africans. They had the greatest warriors our continent produced. The mandingo and ashanti live there.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 398
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:04 pm: |
|
You would have to read the whole book, LAWCHIC.
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:12 pm: |
|
Kola,
I think that many will accuse you of being "hyper sensitive" (in pointing out what you called the CONSTANT ideation with Ethiopia)
I think you are "hyper vigilant" and that is different.
I will say this though... just getting Man-boy to lift his gaze from the filthy american pavement to even look in the direction of the African continent to find himself is to be praised.
Lawchic,
According to anthropologists, the oldest human bones (fragments) are from West Africa. The oldest human skeleton (dubbed Lucy) is from Ethiopia. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 399
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 04:47 pm: |
|
KATHLEEN,
What "MILLIONS" of Africans have always wanted to ask is this:
How does an Afrocentric man like Cornel West, who makes a 6 figure salary...come to Ethiopia (and often Europe) and yet....NEVER ONCE in his life set foot in West Africa?
And yet he's ALWAYS talking about "ancestors" and shit.
How does a man like comedian CHRIS ROCK (who went with Irish singer BONO on an "aids-mission" to Africa, which aired on the OPRAH WINFREY SHOW)...how does he act so terrified and stand offish with West African village people and children, as though her scared to be touched by them--quietier and big-eyed than a mofo....but then livens up and becomes PROUD, talkative and HAPPY once he's in Ethiopia surrounded by people who look NOTHING like him, but who are considerably lighter skin and have "been-to hair"?
OH...and he's making a movie ("so I can go back to my roots")..about "EGYPT".
Ethiopians and Somalis make EXTREMELY racist jokes about Black Americans concerning this "strangeness".
What I am saying is this...."certain issues" that black people don't enjoy facing are VERY OBVIOUS, standing out like White Elephants in the eyes of people who are now exposed to you in foreign countries. Europeans have ALWAYS made jokes about this issue...DIRECTLY to AA's....but they don't even get the joke.
So you MUST BEGIN to ask yourself these questions...and to understand that "soul searching" will actually HURT YOU if you're not searching in the right place.
Which was the subject of Randall Robinson's writing that you shared.
And MY FEAR is that those little boys may someday find ETHIOPIA...and be shocked to discover that they're not welcomed.
No such thing is liable to happen in Senegal or Ghana or Mali (although the "upper class" rich Africans often come to U.S. and are notoriously prejudiced---but not the everyday people who are over there in the streets and markets, awaiting your return).
If I were Lawchic, I would take my children on a vacation to SENEGAL before they reach 18. There is nothing in their lives that will "empower" them more (as Star Jones has attested, as OPRAH has attested, as Richard Pryor has attested).....than being embraced by your own people in their ancient surroundings who LOVE YOU and then being renamed, welcomed...and "spoiled". And ANYONE should go to Senegal...do not miss "Pink Lake". Go out there to be blessed by YOUR PEOPLE's "love spot".
Senegalese people SPOIL Black Americans rotten. Always have. Ghanians are next.
In fact, I am from North Africa and you couldn't pay me to do a vacation in Egypt or Ethiopia or Kenya. I HAVE TO GO to West Africa, because then I pretend I'm a black American....and I get anything I want. Endless love, affection and many times--free meals at restaurants, discount hotel fare just because I'm black American.
Chal please.
I also skip North Africa and go to Israel.
Although, the ancient Medina in Morocco is the most beautiful place I've been. Shame Osama Bin Laden ruined it for me.
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:22 pm: |
|
Kola you said:
"And MY FEAR is that those little boys may someday find ETHIOPIA...and be shocked to discover that they're not welcomed."
I hear you LOUD and CLEAR.
And, you have correctly pointed out the propensity of Black Americans to lump AFRICA into one, amalgamated source of identity. (Which is a departure, at least, from so many of our transplanted ancestors who have angrily informed us: "I ain't no damn African"
The question I have is: Is Randall's reference to Ethiopia a CONSCIOUS desire to be distanced from the original West African mother (phenotypically the EXTREME NON-European) or is it a reflection of his AMERICANNESS (and therefore said out of ignorance of the complex relationships/dissensions between African nations due to their relative phenotypic distance from the original West African mother?)
And if Chris's reactions to West Africans that you picked up on (which may very well be subconscious responses based on his own painful experiences as a dark-skinned black american man) were pointed out to him so that he could examine them... I wonder if it might place him on a straighter path toward self-discovery and genuine self-love?
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 404
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:42 pm: |
|
It's a reflection of Randall's Americanness, Kathleen.
But he's still PASSING IT ON....and the problem is, these men are SCHOLARS.
Randall Robinson, Cornel West and others.
It's time that we MUST begin to educate our African children in America about their BIRTH RIGHT.
For instance, EVERY African KNOWS....KNOWS...that Ethiopians don't like anybody...
...unless they're an Ethiopian.
They are the MOST clannish, separatist people in Africa. Honey, they beat the Egyptians on that shit. They are also the most colorstruck, classist, ARROGANT Africans. They're mean, too.
You want to see a bloody awful fight?
Put a dozen Ethiopians in a room with a dozen Nigerians.
All fucking hell will break lose, because Ethiopians HATE Nigerians and have many cruel songs attacking their skin color and hair. But TO ME, personally---Nigerians are far more attractive. Their men are muscular and more manly and their women, when beautiful, are far more Harmonious and "womanly" than Ethiopian women. And the Ethiopian woman ages much faster than the Nigerian.
But these are the CITY Ethiopians we're discussing. The vast majority of Ethiopians out in the countryside...are dark black Nilotic people. Very kind, ignorant and festive. They want no part of the "mixed" ruling Ethiopians.
So Black Americans need to become AWARE of the "politics" and "family histories" of the Africans.
Luckily, you--our whitest African child--is the most eager to be reunited with her flesh and blood kin, and undoubtably, will face the most scrutiny and pain. Which is why I could understand a person in your situation going to Egypt rather than Ghana, just to test the waters. But even you, at some point, will have to go home to your true HOMELAND area...perhaps with me escorting you to make sure they LISTEN when I lay it out for them.
Because I have such a FREAKISH experience--being the product of both worlds, I feel that I can see so CLEARLY...what needs to be done. And that in fact--MUST BE done.
Africans need YOU just as much you need them. For "healing".
All of us...are lost. ALL OF US, Kathleen...in the West AND in Africa...are lost.
|
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:43 pm: |
|
Kola said: "If I were Lawchic, I would take my children on a vacation to SENEGAL before they reach 18. There is nothing in their lives that will "empower" them more (as Star Jones has attested, as OPRAH has attested, as Richard Pryor has attested).....than being embraced by your own people in their ancient surroundings who LOVE YOU and then being renamed, welcomed...and "spoiled". And ANYONE should go to Senegal...do not miss "Pink Lake". Go out there to be blessed by YOUR PEOPLE's "love spot"."
I will happily consider Senegal; however, I had been thinking more about Sierra Leone at some point. The maternal side of my family spawns from an island off of Charleston, SC and the cultural experts in this area say that the Gullah language is very close to that spoken by inhabitants of Sierra Leone. So, I'm very interested in checking that out too.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 405
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:53 pm: |
|
BTW....
Ethiopians and Somalis make "racist songs" and "jokes" and "cartoons" about all kinds of people.
But MAINLY
Europeans...Black Americans (the "cotton picker" song)...West Africans ("monkey mama" song)...Chinese.
They are very "notoriously" open with their prejudice against other groups and are famous for telling you straight out that they are the most beautiful people on earth....and that all the other Africans look like "monkeys".
Just take your ass to Ethiopia and ask them.
I almost was forced to beat the living shit out of two Ethiopian cab drivers in D.C. because they made a comment about Nile River women being "big titty cocksuckers".
Which is true. We are known for that, but still.
WHO are they? Goddamned sheep-fuckers whose wives drink their urine of Addis Abbaba to disrespect me, who comes from the Valley of the Kings!
|
Kathleen_cross
Regular Poster
Username: Kathleen_cross
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:36 pm: |
|
I can only quote your own words to you sister Kola:
"Africans need YOU just as much you need them. For "healing".
And as for that trip to Ghana with you...
As soon as I can afford it, I'M THERE. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 410
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:43 pm: |
|
Lawchic,
Sierre Leone is at war or recovering it...plus the diamond trade has left thousands with limbs cut off.
It's very bloody, "smokey" and depressing over there right now.
However, they have the sexiest most gorgeous men in that damn country. I swear to GOD. Those MEN...are so tall and chocolate and naturally muscular and just PRETTY.
Yes, the Gullah people are over there.
Just as Thomas (my man's) Garifuna people are still in Mali.
I LOVED Sierra Leone when I went.
They have a lot of "river boat" mulattoes from the Lebanese businessmen and African mistresses over there and they're so mean and hateful. They think they own the place.
I still bet any amount of money you'll love Senegal much better.
Watch.
SENEGALESE.....love them some Black Americans.
You won't want to come back home.
|
Lawchic
Veteran Poster
Username: Lawchic
Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 06:51 pm: |
|
Yes, Sierra Leone is out of the question for some time, but someday. I will seriously look at Senegal too. I also have some friends I went to college with from Kenya, so who knows? I'll have to figure it out soon because they are trying to grow up and fly away from me. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 415
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 07:03 pm: |
|
LAWCHIC:
It's best to go to Senegal right away. Before they get too old.
Whatever you do...tell everyone around you that you want to see PINK LAKE.
This is a lake that is actually the color pink for many hours of the day....and nothing can sink to the bottom of it. YOU FLOAT.
Senegal to me, is the most lush, beautifully romantic and sensual place in West Africa.
The beaches...the seafood culture...the French nightclubs of Dakkar, the dancing and the people.
Also...the Door of No Return on Goree Island, is there.
But I like the people. I ALWAYS pass myself as a Black American.
Girl, they done renamed me so many times.
LOL
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1952
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 09:51 pm: |
|
Kola,
<"siiiiighhhing">
Girl, I'm telling you. Reading what you say can be almost as good as sex (Well, maybe not sex, at least not with a woman, maybe with a blow-up doll...Yeah, that's it: Reading your stuff is as good as making love to a rubber sex toy.).
Seriously, baby. Sometimes, I swear you are a dream. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1960
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:06 pm: |
|
Kola,
Have you directly queried Robinson, West and others about their erroneous identification with and fidelity for Ethiopia? If so, what were their responses?
How do you acquire and retain such lustrous detail about Africa. (Heck. Most of us can barely recount what happens 2 cities east or west of our hometown.) You seem to be a veritable living 'travelogue' of the entire continent.
And if you could somehow have conferred upon you the necessary accreditation (perhaps via some accelerated college curricula), would you consider becoming a teacher?
Because, honestly, you would be a remarkably effective - and, I imagine, popular - professor of literature, history and/or sociology (That's assuming, of course, the fellahs can manage to stay more focused on your teachings and less on your abounding display of T&A...hehe!). |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 429
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
|
Kola,
Have you directly queried Robinson, West and others about their erroneous identification with and fidelity for Ethiopia? If so, what were their responses?
****
No, ABM
I saw Cornel West on CSPAN in the last year, saying that he had traveled ONLY to Ethiopia in Africa (twice)...and that he encouraged young people to visit France.
As an African (and many of us immediately are baffled by these things comning out of AAs mouths)....I thought....why would this "afrocentric" ancestor-loving Black American MILLIONAIRE never once set foot in the land of his ancestors??? How could he become so EMOTIONALLY psychotic (as he often does) about his Racial Plight in America and not set foot in West Africa???? To me...it just puts his entire credibility into question, and not only that, he's a SCHOLAR. Even DuBois took his ass back home!!
I've read MANY books by both men (West and Robinson) and greatly AGREE with almost everything they write. This is basically my only bone of contention with them...
...the fact that they identify and falsely PROMOTE "Ethiopia" as some special holy land for ANY black people of the Western Hemisphere. It's not even the Ethiopia from the bible, and being SCHOLARS...they should know these things.
Black Americans....IN GENERAL....revere Egypt and Ethiopia and completely ignore the EQUAL greatness of the West African kingdoms and totally lose out on their true history and heritage by cloaking themselves in false soul searching. While perhaps 5% of Western Hemisphere Blacks came from East African "captured soldiers/thieves, etc."---the majority of THOSE ONES went to Brazil and the West Indies. Not the United States. And even if they had come here...what about the 95% of your West African bloodberry? How can you TRULY seek closure and connection and IGNORE West Africa?
THE NUBIANS (of whom there are less 100,000 left) live in NUBIA in central Sudan, ABM. When I was a kid...the Nubians would constantly enquire, "Why are the American negroes always mentioning US??? They're not from Nubia!"
And it's true. Black Americans name EVERY WOMAN a "nubian goddess" or his "big nubian dick" or "you big black nubian". But these are Nilotic North African people, not West Africans.
This is a GLARING BOIL on the AA, because people in Africa belong to a Clan (Covenant), then a Tribe, then a Region, then a Nation...it's totally bizzare to us that Bussa people from Ethiopia would worship Akoi in Gabon.
*****************
KOLA,
How do you acquire and retain such lustrous detail about Africa.
ABM,
People in my family say that I am "possessed" by my dead Arab father, who was an archeologist and an extraordinarily passionate man. He was also devoted to "restoring" his blackness (to the point of being driven to heroin addiction) and he bombarded me in my earliest childhood with the "responsibility" to give birth to black sons (his lifelong dream) and to fight against white supremacy. He taught me, "White Supremacy is the world's only true religion."
As a 5 year old...I was on excavations in Napata and Meroe and Southern Egypt. I knew all the history...at 5...of King Kashta and the Cushites and regularly went to visit the Dinka and Shilluk tribes with my father. I played in John Garang's kitchen while he and my father talked men's talk.
Because I couldn't speak English when I arrived in the U.S., I was an isolated, introverted person.
People who have no friends and are by themselves....are VORACIOUS readers and seekers of knowledge, without even realizing it.
And in order to carry out the work I must do...I must know many, many things. And I spend a great deal of time picking the brains of brilliant African Scholars like Nigeria's Chinweizu, who is near death, but LOVES to instruct me and teach me. He is also the single most sexist man I've ever known. He insists that my place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. He makes no pretenses that he believes women are "men's servants" by nature---but still, he teaches me.
(Heck. Most of us can barely recount what happens 2 cities east or west of our hometown.) You seem to be a veritable living 'travelogue' of the entire continent.
ABM,
It's not hard to know about Black Americans. For 3 years (13 to 15), I did nothing but study and research the history of the people who adopted me. Nana told me much, her sisters from the South, my Uncles and mostly....BOOKS. Endless books. DITTO for AFRICA, although you really have to get deeper by knowing the "people" from Africa.
For instance, the white man calls it the "Dinka" tribe and so does the entire world. But the Dinka call themselves the "Jieng". So you can only find out SOME THINGS by knowing the people.
And what I love about the Dinka (the world's tallest people)....they have no word to describe "pretty" or "beautiful". They don't believe in physical attrition. They have a saying: "The taller she is, the more cattle she deserves".
**********
And if you could somehow have conferred upon you the necessary accreditation (perhaps via some accelerated college curricula), would you consider becoming a teacher?
NO. I would not become a teacher.
I'm too emotionally volatile (some days not being able to get out of bed)....too "centralized" for my sons (they have their mother at ALL TIMES present in their development, it's as though we're THREE children--and these boys are very brilliant, they Question and Interrogate my knowledge of life daily, they are not CLAY to be molded...they too are possessed by somebody).
I can Preach, but not teach. Because after a good hour in the company of more than 5 people---I need a drink. I'm not a "people/crowd" type at all. But I am exceedingly friendly and receptive to love and affection. In fact, on the tour, people were so stunned by how affectionate I am, hugging and kissing them. They couldn't believe it when I cried so profusely and talked about my life in such a "naked" way. For many--it was like watching a car wreck. They were embarrassed but then not able to look away. They also found themselves "exhausted" after seeing Kola Boof speak. Literally exhausted, because of the EMOTIONAL strings that Africa pulls in them--when the speaker is more like an ancestor instead of a griot. I don't know WHY they expected me to be a bitch--but they were shocked at how much they loved me and wanted to protect me. They had totally come expecting a GRAND...DIVA...BITCH.
*********
Because, honestly, you would be a remarkably effective - and, I imagine, popular - professor of literature, history and/or sociology (That's assuming, of course, the fellahs can manage to stay more focused on your teachings and less on your abounding display of T&A...hehe!).
ABM,
"flattery" will get you no where, King.
And remember (although there is one Black Male Scholar who doesn't believe me when I say this)...."I have no formal education whatsoever. I finished 6th grade, never finished Junior High, never went to High School and never went to college. I was in Psychiatric care most of my childhood and learning English and reading books and quizzing my Black American military father to the point that he himself became a Conscious Black Man, through me. I never went to school."
And I come from a religion where "sex" is part of the spiritual realm, part of connecting with GOD...I am totally non-Victorian, a PAGAN...so they will not let me teach.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 430
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:59 pm: |
|
ABM.
Scratch that remark I made about needing a drink.
I am not an alcohlic and I don't even drink once a week.
But I find it glamorous and dramatic to have people think of me that way.
It also gives me something to BLAME my sometimes "instability and irrationality" on. People forgive it much quicker if they think...she's just drunk.
But I don't really drink. And I never smoke pot, because I can't handle it. But most of the people in my life smoke pot.
I quit cigarettes 4 years ago (I used to smoke 2 packs a day)...but it ruined my voice.
I am still struggling to regain my voice. I am actually taking singing lessons...so that I can sing the songs of Sudan and the West African Wedding song at my "events".
I have always wanted to sing. But my singing voice is weak and too high (my speaking voice, ironically, is very deep and actressy, I think). I sound like a 4th rate Diana Ross when I sing.
I remember coming to America, and I really loved Diana Ross, because she acted "separate" from the other blacks. She was larger than life and totally from a land of make believe, like a goddessa woman. I liked that, because it reminded me of stories my father told me of Nefertiti and Hatsepshut. I thought of Diana Ross that way and I loved her as a kid who couldn't speak English.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 431
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
|
ABM--
I collect silent films. I love them.
I'm a huge fan of Greta Garbo, Clara Bow and Lillian Gish.
3 of my books "Long Train to the Redeeming Sin", "Diary of a Lost Girl" and "Flesh and the Devil" are named after silent films.
My favorite silent film is "The Ten Commandments" from 1922.
My favorite silent filmmaker is Abel Gance of France.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1966
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 04:23 pm: |
|
Kola,
I think most Black Americans are afraid of Africa.
Not because of all the nonsense we hear/read about via the biased Western media (although that certainly don’t help none). Rather, I think that because of the sheer/utter enormity of slavery, we fear going back to where we came from will be an experience that will cause inalterable reverberations throughout our entire being.
And I think we know once we have gone ‘home’, we will be made to become more accountable for all the troubles there.
If we visit Africa, we might have to do something about the monsters of AIDS, starvation, wars, genocide, modern day slavery, female mutilation.
Thus, we fear we are woefully ill-prepared to even THINK about what to do, much less DO anything.
And we fear that by going back to where we come from, it might become falsely apparent to us that all the lies Whites have told us about ourselves...weren’t lies.
Maybe seeing Black think, behave and relate in ways that we are unaccustomed to might make us think less of that part of us that is African spawn.
So we make excuses, skirt the truth about where we come from, who and what we are.
You are right.
Many of use look to Eastern Africa for faux validation because they (and you) LOOK more like how we in a wholly African state would WANT to look.
And we appreciate the Egyptian and Ethiopian cultures more because...take a guess...WHITE FOKS appreciate them more. Whenever you (seldom) hear/read anything written by Whites about the glories of Africa, they almost ALWAYS focus on Eastern Africa.
So as educated/enlighten as West and Robinson doubtlessly are, even they are still mentally ensnared within White lies/omissions about Africa.
As I read about what enabled you to master African history/culture, I can’t help observing how ironic it is that often it is those of us who are estranged from the teeming throng who become most aware of who and what we are than those of us who are blessed to lead the parade?
I understand why you would avoid being a full-time instructor. But I still wish you would teach other Blacks about how to (accurately) learn about and appreciate our REAL past. And your being self-taught would make you more accessible to people who otherwise eschew ivory tower pretentiousness.
Or perhaps you could write a how-to book on such (Heck! For someone with your literary alacrity, you could probably crank that baby out over a weekend.)
I am not much of a silent film maven. But I do think that silent films era was the closest motion pictures industry ever came to being great art.
And I too get the sense that you are "possessed" by someone of great wisdom/purpose. I guess I wish he or she might allow ‘Kola’ a much-needed respite.
PS: I you sure it was just cigarettes that ruined your singing voice? Or was that due to your ‘puffin’ on a sum’in sum’in ‘else’? <wink!> |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 435
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 06:50 pm: |
|
ABM said:
I understand why you would avoid being a full-time instructor. But I still wish you would teach other Blacks about how to (accurately) learn about and appreciate our REAL past. And your being self-taught would make you more accessible to people who otherwise eschew ivory tower pretentiousness.
********
ABM....blacks who read my books cannot help but receive enormous information and CLARITY in a very entertaining way. My book "Flesh and the Devil" is literally boiling over with EVERYTHING that I feel AAs need in order to begin to not only embrace their own people....but to also begin to do what Malcolm X envisioned...create a STRONG social and economic foundation for Black success and black cohesiveness.
The "elder" is the one person in Black American Society...who has been put to death and totally eliminated. And because of that, the KIDS run the communities...and destroy them...and have no knowledge of who they are, what is valuable, where they come from...
....they could give a shit as long as they have access to Status and Material Possessions of the WHITES. Now they even want the "ease and convenience" of White Identity itself.
ABM--
Life is MOST enjoyable when you are unified with and sharing it with...your own people.
This whole bullshit about "diversity" is just that--utter bullshit and a waste of life. You don't have to give up your own family and community just to get along with people of other races. Africans LOVE people of other races and yet, we insist on the CLAN, the TRIBE. It is our greatest strength--having and loving each other. Because we are much of the same muchness, you understand.
These American modes of "multi-culturalism" are not only UN-natural, they're also FORCED and never deal with White Supremacy as the Guiding Light, the prevailing unspoken RULE.
There is a HUGE WEALTH of information in my books.
People usually highlight my books and read them over and over again.
It is the only way I can teach and be "rational" and remain "centered".
Also....my naked black breasts on the back of the book is what Mari Evans meant when she wrote: "I Am A Black Woman...Look on Me and Be Renewed".
That is why I do it. Because 100 years from now, the vision itself of those dark, healthy, large brown breasts...full of nourishment...is what will CALL, visually....the children back home.
LASTLY: I do have a book of essays that has not been released in the U.S. called "STAY OUT of Men's Churches"....it contains my philosophy of life and is very compelling, again chock full of information.
***********
ABM SAID:
PS: I you sure it was just cigarettes that ruined your singing voice? Or was that due to your ‘puffin’ on a sum’in sum’in ‘else’? <wink!>
*****
Well, truth be told. Being vaginally circumcised has forced me to give a great deal more "head" in life than I think I would have otherwise. Maybe it was all that sucking on Thomas's 3rd leg so often (to escape being banged by it) that affected the vocal chords. I don't know. LOL
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 08:58 pm: |
|
Kola,
I consider many of these contrived efforts to achieve "diversity" to be little more than social machination concocted by opportunist liberals to wield White guilt and Black self-righteousness into a tool to wrench influence, money and jobs from the powerful.
However, how do you balance fidelity to one's "tribe" with reaping mutual benefit from learning/sharing with those who differ from one's self?
I attribute the development of many if not all of my virtues to being blessed with opportunities to relate with people who backgrounds differed greatly from my own.
I consider my relationship with you to be a PRIME example of such. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 437
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:06 pm: |
|
ABM---
I'm all FOR "integration" and I believe that humans should be perfectly capable of functioning side by side in any capacity.....as HUMANS.
My problem is when BLACKS (as Toni Morrison said loud and clear on CSPAN)...are the "only people" who are expected...
to transcend race.
Understand:
TO TRANSCEND RACE.
Meaning...placed in a continuing role of Kiss-Ass of the planet, they are to hand over their cultural creations...their flesh and blones, noses and hair, literally...to the other races of people, constantly giving up their own identity and their own flavor....so that others can usurp it, USE IT UP...then---when those others don't feel like being "black" today or dealing with the black person's personal demons----they conveniently put up their WALL and shut the blacks back out. Where they always were to begin with---OUT.
It's far, far better if we GUARD our community, ENRICH our own identity and culture and SAVOR IT for ourselves....and do as others do.....be friendly, share a little here and there...but always remain "loyal" to the FAMILY (in America, US, the black people of all colors and whoever we intermarried with, all of US--should become a family).
I have never EVER appreciated the importance of the African "clans" until I came to America.
We who were BLACK Arab women had our own neighborhood women's government--the Zarpunni. My mother's tribe has an even stronger version called "Gadaa".
None of that is here for black women--"organized", but then again, the West African women don't have it either.
But in Africa, in the Clans...
The people are much stronger and less confused, because they know from birth EXACTLY where they stand and where they BELONG. They can graze with others, socialize...but they NEVER....walk away, thus causing the family structure to tumble down...which only forces MORE defections.
Black Americans need to be TAUGHT "how" to hold onto family for dear life, to not let go for anybody or anything. The "blood".... "originating from Africa" should be the BOND for that family.
SLAVERY removed this from them, because they did not own themselves, you understand. And when you don't own your children, don't own your husband or wife, don't own your grandmother....you don't fight for them and you think it's normal....to be apart.
These whites over here...they aren't ONE HALF the people of GOD that you black Americans are, "inately". You are GOOD people. You have been so abused and slaughtered--I mean, mentally. Just labotomized!
They did that, because they FEAR your power.
And in America, you have the power to free us all.
|
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 438
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:11 pm: |
|
And ABM,
although a Dutch woman...a Swede or a Geisha could definitely fascinate you with her "otherness".....none of those could RESONATE with you in the way that I can, simply because--I am representative of something is ALREADY a huge part of you.
I am you...before you were who you are now.
Therefore, I am YOURS. I belong to your ecology. I only fascinate you, because you want to regain some "echo" of things you used to know...or things you used to own.
I have the power to bring you back into the world, because I have a womb...and I come from your people (basically).
I BELONG here with all of you, because I am already your family.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1969
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:53 pm: |
|
Kola,
I understand and agree. We are often forced to forfeit too much of who/what we are to get along with others.
It is just I am in a quandary as to what exist within/amongst us that would compel such solidarity amongst us. Because even when we African American were tightly knitted that was due largely to our all sharing the mutual torment inflicted by the Caucasian.
I find it interesting you mentioned that these clannish relations do not exist amongst our West African siblings. Could doing such beyond our very nature?
And will you in frustration be made to realize you attempt to teach sight to those who are congenitally blind?
Yeah. I definitely hear your "echo", lovemother. (Plus you've got a juicy pair of mangos.)
But would it be asking too much that I might on occasion indulge the "otherness" of some skanky/gullible "...Dutch woman...a Swede or a Geisha"? I promise to return to your "womb" when I am done. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 444
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:21 pm: |
|
I didn't say this:
I find it interesting you mentioned that these clannish relations do not exist amongst our West African siblings. Could doing such beyond our very nature
I SAID:
That women's groups/governments do not exist such the Zarpunni or Gadaa with West African women.
The MEN certainly do have clans and tribes.
********
ABM, I dont' have a choice at this point--what I do with my life.
I am in the same predicament as Marcus Garvey, Alice Walker and Malcolm X. As they say: The more you know--the More you OWE.
I can't NOT do my work. Frustrated, misunderstood or not.
****
ABM, fuck all the women you want.
I have stopped believing in men anyway. Completely.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 11:47 pm: |
|
Kola,
Please allow me to at least be honest.
I want you to believe in me. But I am weak. And part of me would sooner be dead than strong in the way that you require.
And I hate that about myself.
Thus, we be ever estranged...mother? |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 445
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:55 am: |
|
ABM.
Even if we were to meet...I'm sure it would be short and sweet.
And maybe a recurring treat.
I'm too old now for a man to think of seriously enjoining me.
And I have so much work to do and so little time to do it.
Don't hate yourself. For being "weak".
Life is short. Fuck us all if you must.
I accept that about men. I finally see them for what they are.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1981
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 05:45 am: |
|
Kola,
I know that I ask too much. But please have mercy on my restless spirit, Mother.
For I know not why.
But these things I do - with, to and without you - are not done to make you cry.
And I'll applaud your skill - with pride my heart fill -
Until perhaps I'll set forth to die. |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 450
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 06:30 am: |
|
Don't call me mother.
I'm vain and you make me sound old.
Goodmorning.
And I've cried about men enough. I give up, because I'm tired, and because I realize, I can't win. I'm not the one who can win.
I've been listening to Rufus and Chaka Khan for about 8 hours straight.
I feel so much inspiration right now. I wrote a beautiful poem called "Something's Coming", but I can't share it.
It's so beautiful.
This song "Please Pardon Me (You Look Like a Friend) really inspired it.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1987
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 01:05 pm: |
|
Kola,
How about 'mama'? Can I can you dat?
Sorry about yer man troubles. But I'm happy to see you are finding more favorable sources of inspiration for your poetry. |
|
Email This Page