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Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 127
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:20 pm: | 
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C-SPAN's BookTV. If I'm home on the weekend and working on the web site. I will always have a window with BookTV on (My video card has a TV tuner. I have my cable TV plugged into my computer's video card. The PBS station which broadcasts BookTV is not scrambled so a cable is not required)
Today for example, I just watched a excellent interview of Thomas Sowell from 1990. Right now BookTV is broadcasting a 3 hour in depth interiew with Angela Davis.
The opportunity to hear so many different ideas from so many different people in so many different venues, over so many hours is simply unequaled.
Book TV focuses on non-fiction.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1550
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:04 pm: |
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Troy,
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with that! C-Span I and II are almost singlehandedly the saving grace of cable, if not all of TV-based media. As I write this post, I am also watching the splendidly informative interview with Davis. And I saw the profound Sowell interview also, which served to dispell some uncomplimentary notions I have had about him over the years. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:52 pm: |
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I just happened upon that interview with Thomas Sowell this morning. I know this guy is an anathema to the liberal community, but some of the things he contends are right on point because they are true. It is counter productive to the black struggle to proceed on the false premesises postulated by many self-serving black organizations because advancing a false premise is fraught with the built-in failure of reaching a false conclusion. Sowell also makes a good case for considering the rewards of embracing pragmatism, as opposed to the tactic of crying racism. |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 135
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 03:49 pm: |
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It is intersting what you guys say about Sowell. This was the first time I've seen him on television. Though I have been reading him for years.
I've heard and hear a bunch of negative things about Sowell myself, however once I read his books I could no longer agree with the assessments of those people, most of whom I'm sure never read a Sowell book. I've even praised him on this site.
The point Sowell made about under qualified Black kids being sent to colleges that they are ill prepaed, then being told the reason they are not making it is because of racism -- that really hits home with me. I seen far too many examples to support his point and consequences have been and continue to be dire.
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Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 04:04 pm: |
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I hate Thomas Sowell, Troy.
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Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 138
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:12 pm: |
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Kola:
"Hate" is a strong word. While I do not share your opinion, you are not alone. Indeed, you may even be in the majority of Black people literature enough to even know who Thomas Sowell is.
However can you tell me specifically why you hate the man?
As an aside: A couple of posts on this thread were deleted simply because they were so far off topic. To the poster: You can always start a new thread (subject) by clicking the "Start New Thread" link at the bottom of every page
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Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 44
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:28 pm: |
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TROY---
I take that back. I don't "hate" Sowell.
I've read 4 of his books and I was very touched by what he wrote about his mother.
What, however, infuriated me with the man....was a HISTORY book he put together, in which he did two things
1) He made it seem as though AFRICAN people of North Africa and Ethiopia have "always" been backwards and the lowest on the food chain---and NEEDED to be rescued by Europeans and Arabs. He clearly made that argument.
2) He argued, openly, that several hundred BLACK WOMEN in New England states during the late 1800's became "pregnant by" white men and had the children without ever filing "rape charges" against any of the men. He argued that this PROVED that black women....willingly and wantonly engaged in sex with white men.......and were NOT raped. And please note TROY...that he wrote that most of these women were NOT raped, or they would have reported it.
WELL...it's now the year 2004, and the vast majority of BLACK WOMEN who report "rape" by any man....are laughed out of the precint, not taken serious and totally villified and disrespected. The ONLY way, almost, that a Black woman can get justice in a rape case---is if her attacker is a high profile FAMOUS black male.
SO I really despise Sowell for making it seem as though BLACK WOMEN in the late 1800's had the "rights" back then...to come forward, to charge WHITE MEN with rape...and to be heard or taken seriously. Even when mulatto babies were born.
RIGHT NOW....in KENYA.....there is an epidemic of British WHITE MEN routinely raping "black" Kenyan women. As usual....the black men in that country need the BUSINESS of those British men, they need to keep alliance and financial ties. So they allow black African women to be raped....as they always have. AND...many Black women fear losing what jobs as MAIDS they have...what little way they have of feeding their children.
SOWELL didn't engage any of that.
He made Black Women out to be some kind of WANTON SLUTS who've always been that way for thousands and thousands of years.
And he grossly misrepresented the history of the people of SUDAN.
Our great KINGS...were blue black men....PIANKHY and KASHTA were both married to beautiful "charcoal" black Nubian women (Imaktmen, Nok, Inida,Sol) and these people were NEVER of the "low means" that Sowell portrayed them.
FACT: There are more pyramids in SUDAN than in Egypt. The Nubians and Cushites built pyramids nearly a thousand years PRIOR to the first one in EGYPT.
How can Sowell claim that the GREEKS influenced EGYPT??
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Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:31 pm: |
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Also, I don't agree that "HATE" is a strong word.
People in America say that all the time...because this is a Christian Judeo society. Ooops. Judeo Christian society.
But "hate" is a natural reaction stemming from HURT after mistreatement.
If a man cuts off my breasts and makes me his slave....I SHOULD hate him.
But the White slavemaster came up with this crap about...."LOVE YOUR ENEMY...LOVE THOSE WHO OPPRESS AND INJURE YOU".
It's all Western crap.
To keep the masses under CONTROL.
"Hate" is just as normal and just as rational....as "Love".
And both...are natural REACTIONS. That should exist.
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Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:45 pm: |
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If you don't....at some point....HATE the man standing on your foot
then you will never muster the courage and will to push him OFF your foot.
Look at your own history. REAL CHANGE has only come about when blacks got SO fed up and indignant that their repressed HATRED gave them the will and fire to get out in the streets and DEMAND change.
Not "beaurocratic negotiations"--but real CHANGE.
Even when Martin Luther King and GHANDI led "peace" movements...those movements were fueled by HATE. Otherwise the "dark people" wouldn't have had the COURAGE it takes to....committ.
HATE is a natural motivator. It stimulates even the best of people to ACT and to CHANGE the treatment they receive.
But of course....just LIKE LOVE..."hate" can be used and manufactured and nurtured for EVIL.
That's the unfortunate part. Not all "hate" is evil....and not all "love" is good.
God and Satan are two halves of the same thought.
But in America, land of the Media and White Christ, you can't explore true human twinness like that.
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Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:01 pm: |
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"Hate" is just as normal and just as rational....as "Love". I agree, however both are strong words.
If Sowell cut off your breasts or made you his slave. Hate would be more appropriate if not an understatement. I simply doubted that Sowell had did anything like this for you to hate him.
Now that you've clarified that you were actually infuriated with his writings, I think I have a better understanding of what you mean. I've also read 4 of Sowell's books. I don't recall reading anything like your points 1 or 2. As of 1990, Sowell had written 14 books; it sounds like we've not read them same ones. Please reference the source of either one of these statements. I would like to read them for myself.
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Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 47
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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TROY...I read the books by Sowell when I was about 17, 18 and 19. I wanted to learn how to become independently wealthy.
One of them was on ECONOMICS and he had a lot of history in it. He was trying to show how the Europeans...Did us a favor.
I really don't have a clue what they were titled.
I read at least 100 books a year and I'm about 36 now.
I promise you, however, that the things I complained about were written CLEARLY in those books---otherwise, I would not be against him.
He's basically a Republican Conservatives' Dream. Even worse than Clarence Thomas---because Sowell just about agrees that Whites and Asians are just....smarter....and have saved us all from a life of jungle living and backward-ness.
This was the THEME throughout the 4 books that I read. Much of these books was about Economics and "political survival tools".
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1513
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:14 pm: |
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Of course, it comes as no revelation that hate is fueled by emotion, rather than rationality. And instead of relieving frustration, it consumes energy and gnaws at the gut. It's easy to hate, but life is full of challenges and choosing not to hate is one of them. |
Kola_boof
Regular Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 49
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:20 pm: |
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No...it's "easy" to be MAD, which is what we do when we wish we could feel DEEPLY ENOUGH...to actually hate.
Hate is VERY DEEP. It is much more powerful and stronger than mere....anger or madness.
And within that distinction lies all the difference in the world.
But I agree....to be CONSTRUCTIVE, one has to at some point let the Hate evaporate.
NOTHING "evaporates" HATE.....quicker than Justice.
If you let HATE build up (without action)...it can become CANCEROUS.
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Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 292
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 06:52 pm: |
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Troy,
Thanks for the insight on Thomas Sowell and C-Span's Book T.V., as I am unfamiliar with both. They are new topics of interest for me to explore! |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 141
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:03 pm: |
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Kola I appreciate that siting a reference form a book might be tough. I did not expect you to be able to do it this minute. However if we are to have a meaningfull discussion on Sowell we really can;t really on your memory of something you read as a kid 20 years ago.
I ain't going anywhere. So whenever you find something that Sowell has written that you find infuriating let me know. In fact visit http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/archive.shtml here you find Sowell's nespaper columns going back to 2001. Now I'm sure you find something else on the site that will infuriate you (smile), but lets try to focus on Sowell. Start another thread when you find something infuriating.
Kola, in the interview I refered to today, Sowell himself said that he does not think Blacks are dumber than whites or Asians. Indeed, he refered to a study or survey he did to show that this is not true.
Moonsigns, no problem.
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Kola_boof
Veteran Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 55
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:33 pm: |
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TROY....
I am bracing for when my own autobiography comes out next spring. Because MANY PEOPLE (maybe including you) are going to hate ME...worse than Sowell or C. Thomas could ever be hated. In fact, it could destroy my career. But I don't know how else....to write about my life, than to just write it.
I despise SOWELL to such a degree that I'm not sure I can stomach going through his papers right now.
Although...for the chance to actually have a full length conversation with YOU.....I might just do it.
And yes---Sowell has become a lot LESS despotic towards blacks in recent years. I was sort of surprised in his interview today....how he has changed from the Tomish tone of his early books.
He was really kissing white ass and really believed all that stuff back in the day.
I admire his intelligence, but it's obvious that Gloria Naylor was so right in her essay about what UNIVERSITY-learning and the ESTABLISHMENT required of blacks circa 1940-1975...in order to be heard.
It's that way in Africa now.
P.S.
there is NOTHING bad, negative or mean said about you whatsoever TROY in my memoirs. In fact, I praise you. But you might not like me very much after you really REALLY know "everything"--that I think.
Which makes me wonder.
Do you like me now...before you've read it?????
MEAN EVIL KOLA
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 880
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:34 pm: |
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Dang Troy! You been here all day?? |
Kola_boof
Veteran Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 56
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:36 pm: |
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Yes, A_Womon....he had the drama of "ME" to contend with all day.
Both here and via email.
Someone tried to trick us.
BTW. What do you have any thoughts on Sowell?
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 881
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:37 pm: |
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No, I don't know who he is! Sorry. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
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I've not read Sowell's books. But I am a frequent reader of his syndicated column.
Sowell make some compelling arguments during his 1990 interview that aired yesterday on C-SPAN II. Sure, most fair-minded/responsible Black people advocate and perpetuate hard work and self-reliance. I think, though, what is often the hiccup in the Black conservative dogma is just how hard should Blacks have to struggle in a system that is so harshly tilted against them. And the success of an Oprah, Cosby, P.Diddy or even Sowell himself does not disprove that there are indeed institutional apparatuses that strive to derail even the most talented and industrious Black people.
Also, I think what happens to a Sowell is the adversaries of Black advancement cleverly manipulate much of his otherwise valid arguments into a form of weapon against us. Many Blacks and Liberal White then make bitter/hostile retorts to Sowell's (perhaps contorted) commentary. He, then, is embarrassed by those responses and is further embraced (and enriched) by the radical Right, which result in making him an even harsher, less reason polemic of Blacks.
This could also be what happened with Clarence Thomas via the Anita Hill fiasco. |
Troy
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 146
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 09:31 pm: |
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Interesting diagnoses. I tend to agree; Sowell's commentary can be used as a tool of those who seek to oppress Black people. However, anyone's words can be be destorted beyond recognition yeilding dissterous results. How many people were killed in the name of Jesus...
Just because someone distorts his ideas, does not mean the ideas are not valid or at least superior to some of the more popular or accepted ideas being feed to us daily.
It seems many Black people (assuming they have even heard of Sowell) are not willing or able to hear what he has to say. We all know it is much easier to believe the the main reason we don't succeed is because the man is keeping us down. It is harder to tolerate the fact that a lack of effort may be the primary cause.
I don't think that anyone -- even Sowell -- doubts that there are "institutional apparatuses that strive to derail even the most talented and industrious Black people" However I believe many of these of are initiated and sustained through our own ignorance, greed or even design!
"How hard should one work?" -- as hard as necessary. In a society were everyone is different we will all have to exhert a different amount of effort to achieve any result.
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Kola_boof
Veteran Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 70
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:24 pm: |
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But TROY...my problem is not Sowell's contention that it's NOT the man necessarily keeping us down (in fact, I agree with him on that).
And my problem is not with Sowell's Conservatism. In many ways, I am a surprisingly conservative person as well...some could even say COLD and values-driven.
MY problem with Sowell...is that like MANY black men from the last few "generations" who were educated in institutions of EUROPEAN doctrine and commonwealth....a huge portion of SOWELL's work and personal positions DO NOT challenge "white supremacist ideals"...but in fact embrace or perpetuate them as the NORM.
I would love to see you read Nigerian author and Scholar Chinweizu...who is very much like SOWELL in a sense...but comes from a COMPLETELY and TOTALLY Black African Nationalist mode of education, socialization and aesthetic.
You lost me a year ago when you made the claim that Black people don't necessarily lighten their skin, swallow the Michael Jackson Pill or dye their hair in relation to "self hatred". I just couldn't believe that you failed to see what the ROOT psychosis of these kinds of behavior are. It is most definitely the belief that...as Thumper puts it...the White Man's ICE is colder...and is the ONLY ice.
As if it's some grand embarrassment to admitt that we've been duped into hating our own ability to inhabit a world of our own...that benefits OUR CHILDREN, OUR PSYCHE and OUR PHYSICAL EXISTENCE.
Ideals that when spoken to most Blacks...seem "sacreligious"--because being a WORKING VALVE in the engine of Whiteness....is basically all we know and have faith in.
I can certainly understand that someone in your position might not be able to exactly IMAGINE a totally foreign and Black created infrastructure (infrastructure of the mind)--an [aesthetic, TROY] of black thought totally removed from that of the WHITE DOMINANT WORLD aesthetic.
Such as.....Black men, before they were invaded by whites or Arabs, built their own GRAND CITIES....in circles...not a straight line.
But all the streets, the buildings, the royal libraries and institutions--say in Timbuktu--were in CIRCULAR mathametical equations.
European men built in a straight line. Which has now been FORCED on us...until we believe...that this is not only normal, but that we have always just naturally thought this way.
Asians in both JAPAN and CHINA have also used the AFRICAN MAN'S CIRCULAR architectural setting to great and SUPERIOR effect over the European model.
Sowell rejects such designs as "unfamiliar" and therefore faulty. His father was not Africa or Asia, so it's understandable...but it's still not worthy of MY supporting him.
That is my problem with SOWELL.
In all his brilliance...he refuses to acknowledge that a great deal of his thinking comes from his FATHER FIGURE and former master...the White Man. And that there is always the danger that one will BECOME their father...rather than improve on his father's system.
Which is what so many educated, wealthy black men in America are doing...they are becoming CARICATURES of the EXACT SAME WHITE MAN who swindled and robbed INDIANS, BLACKS, lied at any cost to build the biggest CORPORATION of GREED and destruction of Poor People.... and circumvented the humanity of WOMEN to a status of Secondary Importance--yet expect ME, a woman and MOTHER of black children, to support them.
Why should I support a BLACK WHITE SUPREMACIST....when I have been fighting against WHITE ONES for how many centuries?
These black men's achievements continue to benefit WHITE CHILDREN and WHITE SOCIETIES....rather than black children.
The idea of a BLACK RULED SOCIETY is unthought of it. And I fear that even if black men like SOWELL devised a BLACK RULED SOCIETY....I, the black woman, would probably be the lowest thing in it. Especially after reading his books.
These BLACK MEN become wealthy, educated and MARRY WHITE. They DENY the centuries old PROOF at this point--of their systematic color caste system against the women of their own race--yet expect us to support their endeavors. And MANY BLACK WOMEN, because they're self-hating idots themselves, go right along with it, believing...he will come back for us after he experiences....the joy of being a white man for a few decades.
These men like THOMAS SOWELL are in the service of their master's HOUSE and their master's SYSTEM. They are building the infrastructure of AMERICA and EUROPE, breeding their own genes out,--and they want us to ME to be a "number", a "statistic" that empowers them.....yet give no power or liberation to ME myself.
I agree with many of SOWELL'S "work ethics", "survival tools", "strategies economically".......BUT WHEN, TROY....will we be given a strategy for "socialization and that directly benefits and OUR CHILDEN and OUR OWN WEALTH as a group and a society??
Thomas Sowell is an ardent assimilationist. I, like my idol--the Egyptian Nawal El Sadawii--am well aware that assimilation is only asked of you when you are NOT ACCEPTABLE as you are...and are willing to be killed and changed into another form...a weaker, lesser version of what you were before.
Which is PROOF....that you will NEVER be acceptable, no matter what lesser form you take.
YOU ARE LOSING, not gaining...as you sell off your culture, your ancestor's GAINS (they built this damned country!) and your own identity.
You just become ....MORE AND MORE....of a nigger.
Didn't you read the book "THE KNOWN WORLD"?? Didn't you see what happened to that Black Man when he became.....a WHITE man?
Don't you understand that while THOMAS SOWELL is a brilliant man in one sense....he is still not willing to sanction US (blacks)..as fully capable human beings separate yet indigenous from our centuries long nemesis.
TROY...let's dismiss the American word "racism" for a moment. And let's look at the WHITE MAN as a human being in a competition for land, food and procreation.
The white man has but one interest. And the white man is TOTALLY RIGHT and HUMAN in that interest.
His interest is to build a world for HIS WHITE CHILDREN...to see them born, come into the world...and benefit from HIS LEGACY...
....and ALL other races of humans are expected to work to fulfill that LEGACY for WHITE CHILDREN and to....put on the back burner.....the needs of their own children.
It embitters me that so called black EDUCATED men are not savvy and common sense minded enough to SEE THIS SMALL TRUTH--which is really a law of nature.
If Moon and I are at the banks of a river...and we both give birth.....do you really think either woman should love the other woman's child MORE than she loves her own????
NO. But in THIS society---America and Europe---that is EXACTLY what is expected. And Thomas Sowell, in his work and life, does not challenge that.
You cannot have human beings, TROY...and not have competition and status.
Black people simply have agreed to stay on the bottom, to be ruled and controlled by others and to WAIT...on their handouts...their instructions on how to think of themselves and SEE themselves. THey wait on the dominant culture for instructions, in fact, on how to view their own elders or their own children. NOTICE the constant breeding out of black children---because WHITE PEOPLE don't find them cute as they find "tanned" children.
I notice that men like yourself, TROY...constantly insist upon ignoring these very REAL realities and issues. You brush them off, when all around us....they are PERVASIVE and indicative of our own self-destruction.
SOWELL, while becoming a millionaire materialistically....is still OWNED, as an acting force, by his creator. Which is not God.
Thomas Sowell, rather than building a system for us to save up our money and build our OWN house----presents a system in which we can PROVE to the White man that we are the most efficient builders and keepers of the White man's HOUSE.
That's my problem with THOMAS SOWELL.
________
***And my great sadness at having written all that...is that my not being a MAN...always precludes both men and women from reading and seriously considering the weight and scope of the argument I am presenting.
Yet, I don't see HOW anyone with two eyes could fail to see the depth of revelant now-ness and truth that has been glaring us in our faces for a thousand years now (500 years for you, TROY).
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Kola_boof
Veteran Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 71
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:32 pm: |
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TROY WROTE:
In a society were everyone is different we will all have to exhert a different amount of effort to achieve any result.
AND I ASK:
But WHY would you want to work yourself to death....to advance a society that will NEVER belong to you....and that, in fact, requires you to DIE (assimilation) just in order to even work?
I cannot understand that.
Why have you abandoned the idea of starting your own society or killing off the whites and taking over this one??
Like the American Indian, who is a disgrace...because they are virtually extinct, you can only become extinct if at some point...you don't destroy this HOUSE and create a new one.
The people who landed on PLYMOUTH ROCK...did exactly that. They started their own new society and even kicked England's ass.
Why is that not your plan????
Look at the MOORS.
Is that really what you wish to become?
Extinct?
At least plan a NEW WORLD...where blacks can exist as themselves. And KILL your enemies...don't BECOME them.
Give birth...to your own image.
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