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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 643
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 02:43 pm: | 
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Ok we are asked to believe that CBS and Dan Rather are so hot to get George Bush that they use documents after being warned that they are not genuine--something that a high school journalism class would avoid.
Is this the case? Or is there more than meets the eye? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1279
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 03:05 pm: |
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Honestly Chris I don't know WHAT to believe. You'd think a +40 year news veteran like Rather would be too clever to get snookered as easily as that. But a pretty persuasive case is being made that he blew it.
And remember Rather was the guy who tried to (figuratively) @i+c#slap Bush Sr. 15 years ago. So maybe he has such a hard-on for for the Bushes that he may have failed to perform the necessary journalistic Quality Control. And too bad for him too. I hear ratings for his CBS evening news show (which have already lagged behind those of ABC/NBC) are PLUMMETING.
So I don't think ol' Dan will survive this fiasco. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 644
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
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I believe he was set up but I can't see him walking into this ambush so blindly--but hey--look at what the President got us into in Iraq!
Is the great myth of the infallibility of the Great White Father taking a beating? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1280
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 04:33 pm: |
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Chris,
I want to think he was set-up too. But I wonder who would do that and why.
Because to do so would be VERY risky. There is STILL the possibility that the American public would believe the records were authentic. So why would an ardent Bush-supporter risk that.
Also, why and by whom is Dan Rather so important that he would be targeted in that way? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
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I heard somewhere that bad blood has existed between Dan Rather and the Bush family for quite some time. Why, I don't know. I also see in the paper that John McCain and other Republicans senators are really unhappy with the direction the war in Iraq is going and want Bush to come up with some kind of an exit strategy pronto. In fact, McCain said so publicly. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 645
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
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Abm:
There was no chance once they revealed that no typewriter at that time could have used that typeface the one that has the little "th" and the even spacing--I don't see how Rather and CBS could have let that one go by. These Bushies are playing no holds barred--Rather is very high profile--if the other journalists see that they can and will set him up like that--they will be afraid to report any truth that is not Pro Bush. Also there are those who think he had a hand in bringing Nixon down.
We ain't seen nothing yet. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 04:59 pm: |
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Cynique,
When Bush Sr. was running for office in '88, there was issues about him being 'soft'. Well, during a Rather interview, he turned testy at a question Rather asked (sorry I don't remember the details). Rather was somewhat embarrassed by the incident.
After that interview, the polls suggested that Bush benefited from the altercation with Rather to such a degree that it may have even help get him elected. Thus, it was alleged by Bush's opponents that he intentionally did what he did with Rather to boost his 'macho rating' (which indeed sounds like one of the late dirty trickster Lee Atwaters unsavory deals). And I believe THAT is why Rather has had it in for the Bushes ever since. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1352
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:34 pm: |
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And we can't forget how the white house hated that Dan Rather conducted that interview with Saddam Hussein and didn't ask the hard questions. Dan Rather does have a reputation of being kinda kooky among his peers. He was totally miffed when both Peter Jennings and Tom Brochaw received anthrax-tainted letters during the 9/11 crises, and he didn't get one. And he had himself embedded with combat troops during one of those Afhganistan skirmishes long before the Iraq war, and was appearing on the evening news, filing his reports from a cave. Flash! They just said on the news that Dan Rather has apologized to Bush for that fraudulent report, claimiing "he has been had." Details later. What intrigue! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1287
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:39 pm: |
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Chris,
You make some valid, yet still unbelievable, points. When you look at what's occurring in its entirely, you can't help wondering that most of us are simply pawns in a very sick and evil game of which fairness and honesty are the tools of a witless fool. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:41 pm: |
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I wonder also how much of what is going on is somewhat parochial in nature. Because if I recall correctly Rather is a native Texan. And ain't nobody can hate you as much as the guy who lived next door to you. |
Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 171
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 06:11 pm: |
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ABM, you said it all:
You make some valid, yet still unbelievable, points. When you look at what's occurring in its entirely, you can't help wondering that most of us are simply pawns in a very sick and evil game of which fairness and honesty are the tools of a witless fool.
AND WORST OF ALL:
Bush will be re-elected in November because of stupid mishandlings like this.
CBS could at least go and doctor some dummy evidence and MAKE their report be true!!
Shit, what's the use of having millions if you can't fight the Republicans with the same dummy-ied tactics they WIN with.
And they will WIN.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 646
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:42 am: |
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Abm:
Believe. If this were a contest merely about differences in philosophy or the way the country is going, I might believe in limits.
But this is about billions of dollars being made. And possibly investigations and indictments over the awarding of contracts and the whole way the information was cooked to get us into Iraq--not to mention unanswered questions about 9/11.
Miis_wysteria:
The Democrats seem to believe they are in a regular electoral contest and not a life and death struggle. They are looking weak indecisive and like they can't cover for or help their friends--one thing most Americans will not stand for is having a weakling in the Oval office, not at this time.
W may stand for wrong, but right or not, Bush is looking strong--at least stronger.
He is going to make mincemeat of Kerry in these debates. I don't even know why he is going to bother to show up--it's almost like the Democrats are throwing the election. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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Chris/Miss_wysteria,
I agree. It is almost like there are 2 totally different contests going on: one junior high football, the other the Super Bowl.
And how the Kerry and his supporters couldn't anticipate and prepare for what was going to happen is startling. Bush and his malevolent minions have wrote-the-book on political dirty tricks. Remember in 2000 they even had the audacity to smear McCain, who is by the views GOP/Dems' alike to be a bona fide warhero.
When you fairly assess Kerry's ineptitude and unpreparedness, no matter your politics, you are almost compelled to conclude Kerry has no f@#%ing business being President of the United States of America. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1358
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 01:23 pm: |
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The Dems had the perfect slogan, and catch phrase when Edwards declared that "What this country needs is a Leader, not a Misleader." Why the Dems don't capitalize on this theme, I don't know. It's short and sweet and says it all. If only Kerry would step up and exhibit some leadership qualities, they could pound this message home. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1296
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 01:56 pm: |
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Cynique,
Considering the (lack of) political savvy and cool Kerry has exhibited, I can't help thinking he'd end up saying "What this country needs is a Leader like Bush, not a Misleader like me. Oh f*&%! Teresa! Did I say that aloud?"
And let’s be real. If Kerry had ANY genuine leadership qualities, wouldn’t they have manifested themselves within the nearly TWO YEARS that he’s been campaigning for the Presidency (and in his prior decades as member of the US Congress).
It’s time we fact it Honey Bunch: We dun been snookered intah buyin’ ah lemon. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1361
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 02:33 pm: |
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Well, Kerry ended up with enough leadership qualities to snare with the Democratic nomination. Why did eveybody jump on his bandwagon? I think now, however, that the Dems missed the boat when they passed over Gebhardt. And Wesley Clarke would've made a good running mate for him. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 649
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 03:10 pm: |
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Cynique:
It was not so much leadership qualities he had as the backing of the leadership--it's obvious that what appeals to them has no appeal to the rest of America--the brie cheese and Volvo set, I think somebody called them once.
Gephardt would have been an even bigger disaster than Kerry. No charisma. No personality. Gets over fine here in Missouri--and then only in South St. Louis and South St. Louis county. not anywhere else.
Think a dull John Ashcroft. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1298
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 03:43 pm: |
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I agree Chris (though that "dull John Ashcroft" analogy was a REALLY low blow...hehe!).
I think most foks rightly figured that Bush’s opponent would have to have SOME energy. But Gepharpt is one of the few nationally known political figures who can make Kerry appear as charismatic as Bill Clinton (And did anyone ever find his eyebrows?). Besides. After you have lost the Dems nomination twice already the people and the powerbrokers begin to pretty much view you to be...a loser.
Edwards was considered too politically inexperienced. Clarke has ZERO political experience. Dean is a certifiable nutcase. The other White guys were so ineffectual they were practically invisible. And face it Black foks, Mosley-Braun and Sharpton were the twin negrow novelty act.
So Cynique, maybe what really happened was we were made to select a stud from amongst a stable of geldings. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1299
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 03:45 pm: |
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...Which again suggests this whole fiasco may have been surreptitiously orchestrated to make way free/clear for a 2008 "Hillary For President" campaign. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1362
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 03:48 pm: |
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Chris:
Gebhardt could've been one of those men who wouldn't make the office of president, but who the office of president would make.(Like Truman) He has that calm, sensible experienced demeanor which coupled with his solid midwestern values might've measured up better against that good ol boy George Bush. At this point anybody is starting to look better than Kerry. What a drag. 4 more years of the Bush bunch. Americans deserve what they get. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 04:02 pm: |
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Cynique,
Perhaps what you say about Gepharpt is true. The problem with that is ol' Geppy would have to be 'fortunate' enuff to be the Vice President of a guy who dies on'em.
So you’d sort of have to consider the overall cost-benefit in that kind of scenario before you root for a Gepharpt presidency. 
PS: Is it just me or is it odd we never really hear/read what the Japanese think of Truman? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 04:16 pm: |
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Obviously I'm desperate when Gebhardt becomes the star in my hindsight movie. As for Truman, the Japanese and a lot of other people think he was a villain for dropping The Bomb. Twice. But historians give him props for being a bold decison-maker when the buck stopped at his desk. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 04:26 pm: |
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Perhaps...
...But I am hardpressed to foresee ANY scenario whereby Truman would have dropped 2 H-Bombs on Germany or Italy, even if they, instead of Japan, had snuck us in Pearl Harbor. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1305
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 04:29 pm: |
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And, yeah, if we are longing for an unrealized Gepharpt presidential administration, we ARE indeed pretty sad/desperate. |
Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 176
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 05:42 pm: |
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OH God--I met Wesley Clarke.
He is SOOOOOOOOOO handsome, sexy and MANLY times 2.
WHew!
I wish either him or that crazy, cuss'n one that I liked would have made the DEMOCRATIC ticket.
Of course...I am now TOTALLY in the Obama Barack stable. I love him and can't wait for his career to take off. Kosa! kosa! kosa! OBAMA!
The DEMS have really become a party with no direction, no passion and no mass social appeal.
The REPUBS are really plugging into that WHITE HOT ANGER and "conservative old days longing" of the American majority.
And let me please SAY, just in case my Case Worker is reading this, that I do love Colin Powell (for very personal reasons) and always will...and that he's done MUCH MORE for Sudan than that stumpy liver-rind, Kofi Annan, an African, EVER has! And Harry Belafonte and his mutant-faced daughter can kiss my LIBERAL titsi-speared AZZ. They're a bunch of Phoney-Baloneys if ever the trove had a treasure.
WOVE U Colin!!
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Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 177
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 05:44 pm: |
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I don't care what ANYONE says--I wish we could get CLINTON back.
Now that was a man who knew how to run things, how to TALK and SPIN and how to shoot these REPUBS right in the groin!
Clinton was the best president EVER in my book.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1310
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:48 pm: |
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Miss_wysteria,
The Dem's are STILL reeling from the bomb Reagan dropped on them 25 years. Reagan has changed the entire format of this nation's political discourse. And the Dems have yet to craft a valid/effective rebut of that. Even as charismatic as Clinton was, it took Perot's mercurial entry in the '92 election and a dreadful economy to help siphon away just enough swing voters to wrestle away the White House away from Reagan's heir Bush Sr.
Clarke would have probably been the best candidate had he held high elective office. But as sterling as his military record (and his good looks) may be, it is too difficult for one to go from nothing to constructing an effective campaign apparatus within less than 2 years. Plus you got to convince the electorate you can got from never been elected at ANYTHING to effectively wielding the world's highest elected office. That was just too much for him to surmount.
I too was taken aback by Belafonte's castigations of Powell. But give the turn of events in Iraq and how Colin helped to bring them about, perhaps Harry was being more prescient than we give him credit for. |
Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 187
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 11:01 pm: |
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Well, ABM...if it hadn't been for Colin Powell...absolutely NOTHING would have been done about Sudan.
Powell has been jockying and passing out petitions for SUDAN for FIVE (that's 5) years now...and very few people knew about that.
Yes, it's awful--the war in Iraq.
But do an internet search and research just HOW those 8 million AFRICAN citizens of Iraq....got there over the last 50 years. Yes, 15% of their population is BLACK AFRICAN, though the T.V. doesn't show you this.
And when I think about that...and the GENOCIDE that Black Americans seem not to give a shit about in SUDAN while they're boo-hooing over IRAQI's and PALESTINIANS....it makes me love COLIN POWELL all the more.
And don't forget that I myself was part of a charity event (the hit book "POLITICALLY INSPIRED") from which ALL PROCEEDS went to buy medicine for the children of IRAQ.
No publisher, however, has come up with such a book for SUDAN.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1312
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 11:12 pm: |
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Miss_wysteria,
I am not "boo-hooing" over Iraqis and Palestinians. To be honest with you, I am so sick-n-tired of reading/hearing about those foks, my @$$ is beginning to itch every time I hear-tail of'em. My issue is we are all being made to pay in money/blood for those people when it seems that THEY are incapable of living in peace.
And you must concede that your favored Colin helped 'sell' the Iraqi war to the UN and the rest of us. I wonder had he firmly and openly stood against the war would we currently be mired in this fiasco.
And while I am happy Powell has helped to rescue your people, perhaps the time/money/energy we are committing to Iraq could instead used to more effectively confront the issues in your homeland. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1313
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 11:14 pm: |
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And yes, I am aware that the enslavement and forced servitude of Black Africans is, alas, a prevalent issue throughout Africa and the Middle East, including Iraq. |
Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 188
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:09 am: |
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ABM....
you know how much I love you.
I wasn't talking about YOU, dearest.
And now I can reveal the truth. That the only reason I even came back to this board, where I am so hated and villified...is because I had to get you BACK.
You never have explained just what it was (that I did) that made you turn to stone to stop speaking to me for MONTHS.
And that hurt me so incredibly deeply.
But I had to make an attempt to have my "buddy" back. I love you so much. I really mean that.
I have to fly off for Chicago now--but I always miss your advice, your talks and your brilliance.
You PLAY a womanizing, sex-crazed wretch on the SOAP that is called AALBC....
......but in real life, you're such a kind, empathetic, intelligent BLACK hero-man and one of my very favorite people.
Please know that.
And please be there for me, because I NEED YOU.
Things are not nearly as "well" as they appear to be...and I NEED YOU, ABM.
I haven't been drinking in a while.
GRANTED. As pathetic as that may sound.
YOU KNOW me....I have no shame and I never put on airs. But I know you understand me. You're the only one who does.
PLEASE don't EVER stop being my friend, ABM. Make your wife understand that we're "artists".
I have to fly away now.
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Miss_wysteria
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Miss_wysteria
Post Number: 191
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:17 am: |
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That we're artists...and that I'm not a threat to her. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1315
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:08 am: |
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Miss_wysteria,
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/179/1678.html?1095862015 . |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1318
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
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Miss_wysteria,
To be fair, I should clarify my views of Colin Powell.
By most accounts, Powell is an earnest and faithful man and companion (Although I'm interested in learning just how deeply he's invested in that ominous Carlyle Group.). So I can understand why he would be compelled to stand with his President.
And I truly appreciate his efforts in the Sudan.
But when I consider this Iraq issue, it makes me question who/what Powell is REALLY all about. Because at some point, even the ‘good soldier’ must defy orders. Otherwise, the primary mission with which he’s charged with executing may go astray and the very people he’s seeks to protect can end up getting slaughtered. |
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