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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 428
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 04:48 pm: | 
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http://new.blackvoices.com/entertainment/bv-sns-ap-people-cosby,0,6656293.story? coll=bv-entertainment-features
Cosby Sticks to Humor at Miami Event
By Associated Press
July 20 2004
MIAMI -- Bill Cosby avoided his recent criticism of some segments of the black community, instead sticking to humor and praise for parents during a charity event for at-risk children.
Many in Saturday night's crowd had expected Cosby to continue his series of remarks urging blacks to stop blaming others for social problems such as teen pregnancy, poverty and academic underachievement.
Cosby appeared before a packed crowd at Zo's Summer Groove, which is organized by former Miami Heat center Alonzo Mourning.
Cosby, wearing a sweat shirt reading "Parent Power," joked that his parents and grandparents always knew exactly what he was up to.
"All day long, you were watched," he told the audience. "Even if there was a drawn shade, there was at least one eye peeking out of it. My mother knew everything I did."
In May, Cosby stunned an audience commemorating the landmark civil rights ruling Brown vs. Board of Education by citing elevated school dropout rates for inner-city black students and criticizing low-income blacks for not using the opportunities the civil rights movement won for them.
Cosby made similar comments this month at a gathering of black community activists in Chicago, when he said many young blacks are illiterate and "going nowhere."
On Saturday, he made an indirect allusion to those remarks, saying that television star Art Linkletter once told him, "'You know, Bill, as you get older, you're in sync with 5-year-old people and you don't really give a damn about what people think about what you say.'"
Before Cosby's speech, Mourning said he did not hesitate to invite the entertainer.
"No, because it's the truth. The truth is confrontational," Mourning said.
Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press
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Ylonjure
Newbie Poster
Username: Ylonjure
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 07:16 pm: |
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Most people are offended by Mr. Cosby's statement because it is so true. How can we accept his donations in one hand and not his "criticism" in another. He contributes alot of money to the city of Philadelphia, but he is not worthy to speak his opinion. I'd rather a black, prominent figure from the 'hood speak on it then maybe Rush Limbaugh. We need to stop attacking the messenger and attack the situation which has made the messenger feel this way. Can we honestly say that what he is saying is not true? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 429
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:57 am: |
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Ylonjure:
As many of us have posted as nauseum here, no one is saying that Mr. Cos didn't have the right to sully the sacred occasion of the Brown v Board of Education ceremony with his crazed feverish non sequiturs. I, and many others, were offended because of the time and place. Imagine if I showed up at your wedding and, when the preacher says the "If anyone has any reason why this union should not be joined" I get up and start screaming about how we have all these Out of Wedlock births in the black community and it is a shame--blah blah blah
It just ain't the time and the place. Apparently you think he is beyond criticism. Apparently you would rather he be allowed his boorish behavior and we should lick his boots and thank him. Well, you have that right to say what you like to.
You may not think we, mere mortals, have the right to criticize Bill Cosby. You may think he is right up there with Jesus. Well, that is fine too. After all, he been on tv and got lots of bucks. I wonder how you would have felt if Joe Willie from the hood, with his cap on backwards and his pants hanging low, had stood up there and done the same thing?
The situation that made the messenger feel this way? Do we have to go through all his dirty linen again? Psychoanlayze him? Wonder why he was wearing those dark glasses?
Yes I can say it is not true. I can refute it point by point. But why? Now that our brother apparently is showing more sense than a lot of his bitter erstwhile supporters. He is coming to reason. Whatever evil spirits that made him lay with slime such as Cal Thomas have loosed him!
I say, let the Cos Wars cease! Let Dr. Cosby live and Mr. Cos never raise his ugly head again! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 585
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
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chrishayden: ya suppose 2 welcome new folk...lol! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 849
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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Yeah, who needed that opinionated rant?? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 430
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 01:19 pm: |
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Welcome:
And any and all can tell me if the statements here are true or not
http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2004/07/21/
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 850
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 01:46 pm: |
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What do you think of your boy Spike Lee saying that Cosby had earned the right to speak out, and that Cosby spoke the truth, Chris? And why do you think that you are so unequivocally right on this subject? You seem to be letting your emotions exert an undue amount of influence on your stance. Millions black folks agree with what Cosby says, and with good reason. Just because they don't agree with you shouldn't inspire your contempt. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 431
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 01:55 pm: |
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If millions of black people can agree with the statements in that strip, we are truly doomed. They are illiterate, illogical and don't make sense. If it was anybody but Mr. Cos (who is the evil side of Dr. Cosby) speaking folks would call for the guys in the white coats.
I think Spike better stay out of them strip clubs, handing out cash to strippers, before he tries to get up on a high horse, is what I think.
All you have to do is tell me which of the Cos quotes are true and we can move on.
You voted for Nixon, didn't you? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 432
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 02:20 pm: |
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Actually folks, we're the ones who are wrong in this situation. As evidenced by his exemplary behavior at his last outing, our brother has has returned to us and is in his right mind.
To what end do we argue now over what he has said when he has repudiated it? Let us put away all this ceaseless, pointless strife. I say, let the Cosby Wars come to an end, and let peace reign in the Afrikan Diaspora once more. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 851
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 02:26 pm: |
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As I say, your emotions are affecting your reason, Chris. It's like your agreeing with Cosby would be to invalidate yourself, because for so long you have bought in to a rationalization. You cannot divest yourself of the mind set that gives good reasons for the real reasons when it comes to why the black underclass is not honoring what others have fought and died for. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 433
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 02:50 pm: |
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"Five, six children---same woman--eight ten different husbands or whatever. Pretty soon you are going to have DNA cards to tell you who you are making love to"
Please translate-- |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 852
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 02:55 pm: |
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Translate? You go first. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 434
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 03:06 pm: |
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It is unitelligible.
Your turn |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 587
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 03:14 pm: |
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Ylonjure: Lets get some things straight. Everyone should be open to criticism. Criticism is healthy...the problem is not the message in and of itself but the quality of the message. His philanthropy means little, therefore...To argue that his philanthropy absolves him of critique in my opinion is dangerous and dishonest. Of course this is about race, but in some senses it is not, because if one's analysis is of quality then it should be heeded...whether it is from cosby or lambaugh! Neither in this case are substantive.
This is really silly, actually...people are confusing "truths" with the quality of one's analysis...there is a huge difference.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 588
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 03:33 pm: |
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Cynique says:
You cannot divest yourself of the mind set that gives good reasons for the real reasons when it comes to why the black underclass is not honoring what others have fought and died for.
As u like to state, "the black community is not monolithic." I usually state, the black community has never been monolithic. In this sense, it has not been the norm for the black commmunity in general to "honor" what others have fought for! During, before, and after the movement, there were/and will be always folk just living their lives trying to do the best with what they have....this is most of the black population. During the civil rights movement, many blacks were afraid of the protests of the students...most folk did not participate...it was mass movement, but not the large percentage of the black community....our history is one of institutional resistance and clandestine social movements, which emerge sporadically!
In the immediate past, unlike our much older freedom fighters, this modern civil rights generation has not shared, trained, and educated their children, nieces, grandchildren, the general community, etc...and the next generations of the need to fight for justice and reflect the integrity and dignity of our forebearers.
How does one know to honor if they haven't been taught? Cosby needs to step us is analysis, for it is weak, limited, and dangerous! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 435
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 04:32 pm: |
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You know Yukio--I always liked you. Your analysis is flawless, your logic subperb, your reasoning irrefutable.
Rap on, brother |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 589
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 04:48 pm: |
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Is this the end?...Are u ok chris? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 853
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 05:28 pm: |
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I don't think Cosby owes anybody an explanation or an apology for speaking out and saying what he believes to be true. And, by the same token, other people are perfectly entitled to disagree with Cosby, but it's just too bad that in the process of debunking what he says, they don't come up with solutions to the problem that are something more than empty rhetoric and the same ol tired convoluted theories that are not going to work in a capitalistic society. If another spokesman can step up and speak out and say something original about this ongoing problem, something that will produce results, then let him do it. Bill Cosby gave a wake-up call and millions responded to it. People who opposed what he says can't give a wake-up call, because they have no viable alternatives that can be implemented. All they can do is bitch and say he should shut up so they can continue to spew their hot air. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 590
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 06:55 pm: |
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Cynique: My love, what are u talkin about?
Cosby has no viable solutions...originality, where? Learn standard english, have less children, and buy hooked on phonics instead of expensive sneakers...the same people u claim "spew their hot air" are his cohorts, the civil rights leadership...what he has said they have said with more tact, nuance! Both Malcolm, King, Farrakhan have said similar points, Jesse Jackson has done so as well...Frederick Douglas and DuBois have done so....
The difference is that these other folks analysis were balanced. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 854
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
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Cosby very succinently identified the problem, Yukio, when he implied in one sentence where the root of the trouble lies: Poor parenting skills. The ramifications of poor parenting impact greatly throughout the community, creating a domino effect. And I would add that when a single mother has too many children, then it's difficult to be a good parent. A lot of what's wrong with schools and neighborhoods in the inner city has to do with unruly children who have no home training and inadequate parental suprevision. And you'll find that the ones who escape their dire circumstances are the usually the ones who were raised with a degree of awareness.
We could debate this issue forever, Yukio, and be assured that I respect your grasp of the situation, but I just don't share your vision. To me, things just seem to be regressing mostley because individuals won't take resposibility for their actions.
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Ylonjure
Newbie Poster
Username: Ylonjure
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 08:40 pm: |
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yukio
this man DR. William Cosby is getting confused with Cliff Huxtable. we see him in the way we've seen him on tv. But when can he not speak on his community and the lack of education in it? Do you fall into the categories of which he is speaking? The truth never hurts unless the recipient is guilty as charged. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 591
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 09:33 pm: |
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1. Ylonjure says:
this man DR. William Cosby is getting confused with Cliff Huxtable.
Yukio says:
Hmmmm....I don't understand your point. Are u sayin Cosby is confusing himself w/his TV character C. Huxtable. I'm not confusing the person w/the character! Whats your point?
2.Ylonjure says:
But when can he not speak on his community and the lack of education in it?
Yukio said(thats past tense):
Everyone should be open to criticism. Criticism is healthy...
3.Ylonjure says:
Do you fall into the categories of which he is speaking? The truth never hurts unless the recipient is guilty as charged.
Yukio says: Don't shift the discussion to my class and education. It is irrelevant. The issue is, whether or not his analysis is accurate, not truths...reread what I wrote, which pertained to an assessment of truths/variables...
Lets keep this friendly, but since you have made it personal, i'll give you a two piece meal--a leg, thigh, and a biscuit--and we can, if you choose, return to this discussion.
Considering your ambiguous sentence on the first point, perhaps you should ask yourself if YOU fall into the category...if you can speak english?
cynique: mi amiga, it is true: we can debate this forever, so let me make a few points on your terrain--Personal Responsibility:
I believe that this socalled "poor parenting" that BC identifies is not "poor" but ineffective parenting. These people he lamblasts are doing the best that they can, and they are doing it in the name of Love. If this is the case, then it is not about bad, good, poor, etc...it is about what know-how. This is what is essential, and this is why the "individual responsibility" position is limited, because these parents don't know anything else...If this is true, then they need help, and historically this is where the community--aunts, uncles, cousins, Big Mama, relatives from other of state who take the kids, send money, the church, community center, etc--came in and helped.
In other words, it was a community effort...These parents need to be equipped and only a community can do it! Everyone needs help.
And, I won't even discuss the other variables.
There it is...we are done with this. Of course, if u say something else, I'll leave it alone, for I think my points and postions are clear.
Cheers |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 517
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 01:41 pm: |
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I find it bizarre that those who support Cosby's right to express his views paradoxically criticize the right of others to criticize what he says and how he chose to say it.
I happen to agree with much of what Cosby says, though I find it to be a bit heavy handed and incomplete. For example, even if you agree with everything Cosy said and how he said it, ask yourself this question: If the "underclass" (which is a truly dreadful thing to tab an entire socio-economic class of people) Black people he criticize are as ignorant/unproductive as he cites, will castigating them in effigy 'inspire' them to 'do better'?
I think not.
That just place Cosby among the police, politicians, courts, prisons, businesses, schools, banks, social scientists and the myriad other entities that enjoy disparaging/degrading them.
It seems to me he could have said virtually EVERYTHING he want to say yet incite an entirely different response from the people he was referring to if he chose to be kind rather than cruel.
Any good 'father' knows you've got to hug and love on your kids, even after they have done wrong.
Also, and I will repeat this ad infinitum: Where is Cosby's criticism of the media, companies, political systems that are perpetuating and profiting from the dysfunctionality he cites? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 259
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 01:15 pm: |
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Ahhhhh! I think Abm hit on something important in that last paragraph.
For a billionaire to criticize the media/political systems would be capitalistic suicide. (Notice that I did not separate media and political systems because to a very large extent, they are one in the same.)
Look, I love Mr. Huxtable as much as the next person. He aint my dad, though. My dad is dead. Cliff could have made his comments with a little more decorum. His name and his voice carry a lot of weight in this country and I really don't see where we need one of our own, one that is the epitome of the American success story, to separate us and demean us in this manner. Yes, funny spelled name person, I took offense, because I fall into that category. Billy Cosby could have found a way to uplift us and offer some viable solutions instead of being so derogatory. However, that IS his perogative. I just think that our culture could use some positive reenforcement as opposed to negativity. Especially when its coming from someone that is held in such high esteem by the masses. We look to people like the Jello-pudding man to hold us up in the face of the storm, not tear us down. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 446
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:10 am: |
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Lambd:
You know I always liked you. I think it's the deathless quality of your prose, the searing nature of your insight, the on-target, take no prisoners ultimate correctness of your vision.
Preach it! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 597
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 12:30 pm: |
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lambd: cosby did offer solutions. For the children--stay in school, learn standard english---and for the parents, the same as the children, and better parenting.
I agree with all of these appeals, but as you, abm, and ch have stated, cosby's analysis is incomplete and its not always what you say but how u say it...
His cartoon is bonkers, btw. Also, he needs to give less to universities and more to primary and secondary education. Finally, I'm still wondering how these "bad parents" are going to learn quality parenting? Is it not the case that much of his parodying is as superificial as his cartoon? $500 dollar sneakers and sistas having six and seven kids....is that the norm even among the most poor black single mothers? Was he given a phd or did he earn it? I think not! Does anyone know the breakdown of the black poor...as in the working poor, poor, and underclass. And among the "underclass" does anyone know the median for the children and their ages? Does anyone have problem why the notion of underclass? I do! Has anyone read Robin D.G. Kelley's Yo Mama's Dysfunktional? Send a copy to Cosby!
And, as a friend of mine suggests, are these very alive and semiliterate "rotten appples" a slap in the face of Bill Cosby's "do gooder," children..one murdered and another a druggy or drunkard(which is it...does it matter)?
Whats up wit da shades, Bill? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 600
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 05:51 pm: |
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Monday, Jul 26, 2004, 10:27 am EST
Obama: Black Parents Must Take Reigns
The Associated Press
-----------------------------
BOSTON (AP) -- Black parents must take responsibility for helping their children succeed, but the government should give families support, said Senate candidate Barack Obama, the keynote speaker at the Democratic National Convention.
Obama, who will become the fifth black senator in history if Illinois voters elect him this fall, was asked Sunday about comedian Bill Cosby`s recent criticism of out-of-wedlock pregnancies, disdain for drug use and other problems among some poor black families.
"I understand the basic premise that Bill Cosby is talking about, and I think he`s right about it," Obama said on NBC`s "Meet the Press."
"There`s got to be an element of personal responsibility and community responsibility," he said.
"It`s not a function of being conservative or liberal. It`s just common sense," Obama said. "We have to also hold our government accountable for making sure that we`ve got the kind of support that parents and children need to succeed."
Parents need decent jobs and good schools if they are going to keep children away from gangs and drugs, Obama said.
He also said black voters tend to support Democrats because the Republican Party has not traditionally backed issues important to blacks.
"It`s a very practical assessment of which party has looked out for civil rights, which party is focused on the issues that working people face, who is providing grants to kids to go to college, who is thinking about the uninsured," Obama said on CBS` "Face the Nation."
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Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 260
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 07:18 pm: |
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Yukio says:
lambd: cosby did offer solutions. For the children--stay in school, learn standard english---and for the parents, the same as the children, and better parenting.
You are probably the wisest of us all, sir. And I truly hate to go against anything you say for fear of looking like a complete idiot after you post your unavoidable and formidable rebuttal...However, (and we all knew that there would be a 'however') those are not solutions. Those are very well placed insights. Helen Keller could have seen that shit that Bill Cosby said.
'stay in school...learn english...be a better parent....Pulleeze (excuse my spellin' Mista Cosby. I aint got no free PHD cuz I neva ben on telebizion, an I neva bilt a gymnazium for no universe...yuniverz....younieversit....big skool.
I do like the other part of your response, Good Yukio...I think I'll repeat it:
I agree with all of these appeals, but as you, abm, and ch have stated, cosby's analysis is incomplete and its not always what you say but how u say it...
"he need to give less to universities and more to primary and secondary education. Finally, I'm still wondering how these "bad parents" are going to learn quality parenting? Is it not the case that much of his parodying is as superificial as his cartoon? $500 dollar sneakers and sistas having six and seven kids....is that the norm even among the most poor black single mothers? Was he given a phd or did he earn it?" |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 601
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 07:47 pm: |
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lambd: You're not going against me, for I was only informing you of what he and others consider "solutions."
Also, my last post about Obama's affirmation of Cosby is a better examine of communal critique, though his comments are elementary they show more nuance and care. |
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