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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 205
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 11:28 am: | 
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Well, I knew they would screw it up but I didn't know they would screw it up this bad.
I figured there would be the usual corruption, the troops would be sitting around over there bored and doing nothing, the Iraqis would be holding a demonstration here and there and generally discontent with the occupation but nothing like this.
It is a full scale disaster. After Fallujah, the prison pictures, and the coming fiasco in Najaf it may well be irreversible.
It has mostly been a smash and grab for a number of corporations raking in billions on contracts--
So right now Fearless leader and others are saying that America will stay the course. And there are the pundits saying that failure is not an option. Of course that is ridiculous. Failure may not be an option but may be an outcome--
They are saying they need more troops--many estimates are up to 500,000--where are they going to get them?
They are not. Right now some say we will be there until 2005, more until 2007, and others are saying until 2013.
How long do you think before we declare victory and get out? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 376
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 01:14 pm: |
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I'd say about 5 years, Chris. America doesn't like to admit its mistakes, or lose face or, as Dubya says in his best good ol boy accent, "cut and run." Even Kerry is against pulling out, which is why I am fast becoming disenchanted with him. During the Vietnam era those in high places vowed that the blood of America boys would never again be spilled on foreign soil. But here we are, right back in that "quagmire" the administration is in denial about. I'm even becoming reluctant to support the troops anymore because they believe in what they're doing and really think they are the good guys fighting for freedom and democracy when the only thing they are fighting for is George's Bush's imperialistic agenda. Furthermore, the mistreatment of the Iraqi prisoners is nothing more than hazing, an American "tradition" regularly practiced everywhere from athletic locker rooms to fraternity houses. And as for all the adulation showered on ex NFLer Pat Tillman, who went to play soldier in Afghanistan, chuck it. He gave up money but others had to leave family and loved ones, and it was the football mentality necessary to be gung-ho about this war that spurred Tillman to go where the action was, hoping to kick the butt of the other team and score a big-time victory.
Well, I'll get off my soap box now. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 207
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 01:30 pm: |
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Cynique:
After 5 years do you think we will have brought democracy to Iraq, created a stable government, kept Iraq from civil war and/or partition, and created a shining example for the other countries in the mideast? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 377
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 01:46 pm: |
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Hell, no. The best that can be salvaged from all of this is a psuedo democracy and a puppet government controlled by America. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 261
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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the problem is, Can any external government bring "democracy" to anyone? It seems imperialistic even to consider the assumption that the US can do this....that they're not capable of producing a viable government...forget democracy...who has ever seen it? |
Passion
Newbie Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 06:45 pm: |
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We criticize America for setting up governments in foreign lands.
But has any of you--especially Cynique--ever paid attention to the "imperialist governments" that powerful, rich Arab and Muslim nations SET UP in foreign lands, most notably Africa???
Has anyone realized that Iraq has a population of 8 million BLACKS, all of whom were aquired through some form of slave trade???
That Basra just recently was the port for up to 500,000 NEW slaves???
I'm not condoning the actions of the U.S. But it's hard not to wince listening to all these MYOPIC put downs of the evil American devils...while the Arab Muslim nations are just as evil and devilish as any that have ever existed.
In fact, most poor "colored people" outside the U.S. would argue that these nations like IRAQ are worse in human rights violations than the evil White European governments ever were.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 378
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 07:37 pm: |
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I'm not defending, Iraq because I am not an Iraqi (or a Sudanese woman like you),"Passion." I am also not absolving Iraq of its atrocities. But America has proclaimed itself the leader of the free world and has cast its troops as the "good" guys in this war, so they should set an example and act accordingly. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 262
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 09:07 pm: |
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Passion:
There is no difference. Neither are legitimate. Both evil. The problem is, whether or not "colored people" outside the US or even within the US know, the US' imperialism reaches much farther, much much farther....indeed, it is probable that much of the power that Muslim Arabs have is funded by the US or US cohorts(can we identify the circuit of capital and expliotation?). In other words, where do they receive their commodities? weapons, etc...in addition, US citizens are benignly complicit, white as well as "colored people," for our taxes and much of the socalled wealth that this country has and the advantages all US citizens have, regardless of our poverty, is usurped from the labor and exploitation of folk of color around the world.
While it is unfair to compare poverty, poverty in the US is not poverty in Africa...there are things that a homeless person in the US has access to that underindustrialized and technologized countries don't have. This is the irony, of course, of the African American condition. For AA and other US minorities are also poor, exploited...indeed this irony is one of the causes of conflict among folk of Africa and the African diaspora. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 208
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 12:54 pm: |
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Cynique:
I don't think this country can stand another five years of this. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 379
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 01:22 pm: |
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I don't either, Chris. In answer to your question about the duration of America's occupation of Iraq, I should have simply said: "I DON'T KNOW." But in answering the question, I was influenced by this country's reluctance to accept failure and move on. |
Crystal
Newbie Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 07:37 pm: |
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I don’t know how long it will take but I think we’ll be run out of there like we were run out of Vietnam. Speaking of which, I am listening to some cuts off Marvin’s What’s Going On album and it’s a damn shame that over 20 years later it’s still very much relevant. It’s “history repeats itself” in action! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 266
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2004 - 10:30 pm: |
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crystal: Not exactly, we didn't have black folk in high places contributing to US supremacy. It was easier then to identify da Man! |
Bookgirl
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 82
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 02:59 pm: |
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Oh yes; Crystal I have been listening to that album by Marvin Gaye also and I feel the same feelings that I felt back then....it was the year I graduated from high school going off to college while some of my friends were going off to Vietnam . . .they came back in body bags or either "the walking wounded".
If I had a son; I would be beside myself right now because he would probably be of that age....same thing going on Marvin, same thing.
Yukio: you are so right....shaking my head at Rice and Powell (and others) who know better. |
Passion
Newbie Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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I agree with all of you...as far as....the war is fruitless and the soldiers should be brought back home at this time. Iraq should be allowed to choose it's own government and put itself back together.
On that I agree with you all.
But speaking on behalf of Black People who live in or come from that part of the world....AMERICA...even with its history and all its corruption...is BY FAR...the best nation on earth to live in. Especially if you are a woman.
No one can randomly stone you to death here or set you on fire--as black women are done without incident and especially without REPORT. If a man rapes you here (or rapes your little daughter)...you can go to the police and perhaps even get a trial.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for the people of Iraq or for any Arab or Muslim person living in the middle east.
My sympathy is completely and irrevocably with the African blacks or mixed Rape babies in those societies. And I am 100% of the mind that America is the greatest, most justice-oriented nation on planet earth. The American government is far less evil than any of the governments in the middle east.
I doubt if U.S. Presidents pistol whip and kill citizens in the oval office, rapes women in the oval office, poke children's eyes out in front of their parents.
Police forces are like swarming gangs in those countries...committing thousands of crimes per day that are not recorded.
I would take THIS American devil over the true satan anyday.
Americans are spoiled rotten!! They sit up and run their mouths complaining...not realizing that they would have no tongue to speak with if they were in one of these "poor, picked on foreign countries".
COLIN POWELL:
Lastly. While I don't agree with Colin Powell's politics. I know him to be a great decent man.
We all...in life...must play some kind of game. The more powerful your opponents or the more powerful the people are who make the rules...the more complicated the game begins. This is a good man--who became involved 3 decades ago in a "game" . But I have known him to be a person of conscious, good character and supreme gentlemanly manor. I like him.
I don't know Condie or agree with her politics,but I respect her as intelligence, class and talents. Is she a sellout? Most definitely.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 267
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 06:01 pm: |
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Passion: By the way, I'm not saying my lil analysis represents you, so PLEASE don't take this person. Though I'm interested in your comments.
Here are problems between African Americans and Africans:
The problem with African Americans, indeed, is that they have no understanding of conditions in other countries, so in many ways their(our) perspective is shortsighted. Consequently, we often allow our nationalist concerns to represent all of the world, so that we can only really look at things through an imperialist US perspective, ie Condi and Powell. In addition, African Americans seem to think their notion of blackness is the only one and all people of African descent need to blindly accept and follow African American leaderships and political positions.
Yet, this is the same problem with Africans, for since this is the only experience that we know and live, it is similarly shortsighted for Africans to invalidate the integrity of our experiences, ie calling Americans, especially African Americans, spoiled.
The problem, i believe, lies in making comparisons that do more than demonstrate differences but exacerbate resolution. The way it goes it, Who is the most exploited? Africans, Mexicans, Indians, etc...and anyone in the socalled "third world" raise your hand...but African Americans, Chicanos, or people of color in the US sit down...you're American and things are wonderful here. Now do people of color in the US have more rights and advantages than people in the socalled "third world"...YES, as you've said, but do those rights mean that we're not discriminated against,...NO, and does it mean we shouldn't address as racism...?
This often leads to the argument that African Americans are lazy, because Africans make here.
Yet, Africans are still a small population, so the question is, once or if the population increase how will the US accept them, especially of their not skilled...at the end of the day, skilled black folk regards less nation, for the most part, can make it here...but this is not the case of the rest of the community, though there is really no such things as no poverty, but one would hope that is not racialized.
The other issue is, and this is general not necessarily an African American/African issue, many of us when talking about terrorism, poverty, and tyranny in general, will only focus on a country as a domestic entity...this is not the case, and has not been for a long time. It is documented that many of the crimes that are committed throughout Africa are implemented by Africans themselves, but funded by multinational companies. In other words, this American devil that affords you rights that u may not get elsewhere, is the very same devil that provides the means and encouragement to slay many of the people you sympathize with.
Hitler was also a gentleman, mild manner, and even playful... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 384
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 06:35 pm: |
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Right on, Yukio, and furthermore, Passion, Iraq is a Muslim nation and to them this is a religious war and they ferverently believe Allah sanctions whatever they do. America, on the other hand, cavalierly pretends to have noble reasons for fighting this war, but it really has ulterior motives that reek with imperilism. Also, you persist in implying that to be against this war is to be for Iraq. That's not true. And it's also delusional to think that if American boys weren't over there fighting Arabs, we would lose our freedoms over here. Terorrism is not a major threat to this country. That's just a ploy to keep the population under control through fear. Yes, America is the best country in the world to live in. But it is also the most hated country in the world. And we have to ask ourselves why??? |
Passion
Newbie Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 06:46 pm: |
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That's not what I was saying at all, Yukio!
I completely understand and relate to the horrific and very special holocaust that African Americans have endured and continue to endure in America.
I simply find it sickening to hear them decry "American Imperialism" when they so adamantly and vigorously support an even greater demon...those Arab Muslim governments with "brown" skin that they identify with....which are even more Imperialistic and Monstrous and RACIST than the Americans.
Recently, they have been told non stop BY BLACK PEOPLE from those parts of the world how those evil "brown" people treat and dismember Black People. But they don't want to hear that...or even care. Somehow, it hasn't sunk in.
They live in this fantasy that the White man is some omnipotent devil creature (which he can be, like any other man--including the African Devil Man)...but fail to see that they are supporting and championing a devil creature that has been far worse...for far LONGER.
History records all of this as fact where BLACK SKIN is concerned.
AAs also forget when they travel to places like France and the middle east...that their "Americanness" protects them...not their color. France has atrocious treatment towards blacks from Africa and so do Muslim Arab countries. But a black from America has "connection" to the all powerful White American, therefore, he becomes a puppet to be manipulated and used.
And anyone who has known Bin Laden doesn't need to be reminded about the charms of Hitler, Yukio.
I hope you weren't being childish enough to compare COlin Powell to Hitler. That in itself would be evil and untrue.
Unfortunately, I cann't speak with you about it further. Not because I don't want to, but because I can't or I'll get in trouble.
So I can't say anything further.
But please stop that petulant thing that arrogant African Americans always do--which is to claim that Africans don't care about or relate to the severity of suffering and dehumanization that AA's went through. Which is a ballfaced lie.
Africans feel JUST AS rejected, hated and put down by AAs as vice versa. The pain and the scars run deep on both sides of the atlantic.
Colorism alone has destroyed, separated and diseased the entire family.
And what is worse...is that AAs fail to see that they have adopted MANY of their master's folkways and mores. And refuse to acknowledge their own stubborn airs and selfishness. The constant un-caring while demanding to be cared about.
Such as crying over Arabs beaten by U.S. troops...but not giving a damn about black children with their limbs hacked off, their mothers raped and...according to the N.Y. Times....1,000 blacks killed PER DAY in Sudan since Jan. 1st of this year.
I've yet to hear a single black person on U.S. soil say a word about those 1,000 black people killed PER DAY in Sudan...but I thank God that the N.Y. Times finally turned around and started reported the truth.
Happy mother's day.
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Passion
Newbie Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 06:51 pm: |
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Cynique--
I never said a) that America would lose freedoms if those boys weren't over there.
I said the OPPOSITE. Can you read?
b) I never said that terrorism was a major threat to the U.S., although, when one thinks of nerve gases and other developing biological weapons--I think it is.
You both have put words in my mouth and claimed that I said things that I didn't say.
I have only said ONE thing.....and that is....that the Arab Satan is far more sadistic, evil and horrendous than any White Redneck Cowboy Racist I've EVER read about, seen, etc.
There is no comparison.
I was born Islamic. It's a religion more violent and hateful than the devil himself!!
Of course, you haven't known BOTH...like I have.
So you're not understanding my point.
I am not defending or condoning America's evil.
But given the choice...I would rather be in America...with all these wonderful RIGHTS and freedoms that I have.
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A_womon
Regular Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 46
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 08:20 pm: |
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passion wrote:
And what is worse...is that AAs fail to see that they have adopted MANY of their master's folkways and mores. ..And refuse to acknowledge their own stubborn airs and selfishness. The constant un-caring while demanding to be cared about.
i am particularly interested in the latter part of this post- the constant uncaring while demanding to be cared about. i don't see passion, how you can fail to see that this phrase captures your personality perfectly.
you whine and pout about people hurting your feelings with name calling and such, but you don't hesitate to hurl your bitter venom (sssss) at others every chance you get, and then when that bite back you bemoan your situation. who do you think you are some kind of queen on a throne that you get to say whatever you want when you want and then run and hide under another persona when it gets too hot for you.
i for one would be more interested in what you have to say if you could take a little of your own advice and quit being so bitter. you are not the only one in this world who has suffered injustices so you'd do well to keep your scathing remarks to yourself. i might not be able to contain myself the next time.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 269
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 08:29 pm: |
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Passion: I don't think we're saying anything different, here.
I never sought to repeat what you said. Instead, I used what you said as a way to both engage these issues and our(black folks) problems at the same time.
Indeed, the first sentence states my purpose.
With that said, I'll restate some points; I both assessed the problems with African Americans and Africans. In other words, this is less about you, for i don't know you, and more about what I've heard many Africans(A) (Of course, i've heard other africans identify with african americans, and in fact, I seem to get along better with West Africans, but that is another story. ANd I've heard and know african americans who consider Africans struggles their own. I am one. Yet, these generalizations are real for many african americans and africans)and many African Americans(AA) say these unforunate, ignorant things.
Your comment about AA in France is exactly the point I was making when I said, "Consequently, we often allow our nationalist concerns to represent all of the world." In other words, since here we often don't think, or are even aware, of our national US identity, although it is immediately evident from someone not from the US, we tend to assume that everything that pertains to us is related to our socalled "blackness."
At any rate, my point of all of this is that both of us(A/AA) are complicit in the conflicts, as you've said, "Africans feel JUST AS rejected, hated and put down by AAs as vice versa. The pain and the scars run deep on both sides of the atlantic."
At the end of the day, both A and AA were colonized, so that our imperial gaze allows of us(not all of course) to miss the exploitation of africans by arabs. Simultaneously, from this same imperial gaze, ie if u work hard u can make it in "America," Africans(I know this as a personal experience, and of course not all but many)believe that AA's are complainin children who would be better if they were real Africans...(Though, I do believe that we all have lessons to learn from eachother).
Finally, I was making a comparison between hitler and colin. Both are human with the capacity for compassion and socalled goodness...There is a documentary called Blind Spot: Hitler's Secretary...it shows how those closest, but really blinded, to Hitler believed that he was one of the most humane and mannerly individuals...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 386
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 11:46 pm: |
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Sheeee's back! So what is your point, Passsssion?? (When are you going to accept the fact that, whether you like it or not, your blues ain't my blues?) And, now, let's all stand at attention while you sing a chorus of the Star Spangled Banner, a lump in your throat, tears glistening in your eyes, your heart suddenly full of love for the country you revere only when it's convenient for you to do so. Gimme a break. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 144
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 12:33 pm: |
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The United States of America is an EMPIRE. And an empire does not voluntarily surrender claim to any land that it has taken by brute force and bloodshed (see "Guantanamo Bay, Cuba" for an example). And Iraq has oil reserves that reputedly rival those of Saudi Arabia. So, we are NEVER leaving Iraq. Nor did or do we ever intend to leave. Any suggestion to the contrary flouts American history. Wherever America plants "Ol’ Glory" becomes permanent American property.
PERIOD.
Yes, to try to appease our Arab and European critics, the US government will erect an artifice (or ‘mirage’) of a 'free' Iraqi government/society. But as we can already see/read, the US will, to enforce/protect its geopolitical/business interest, impose such onerous strictures on the Iraqi government and people, that inside of 10 years more Iraqis will be speaking English than they will utter Arabic.
BTW: Do you know that the US has over SEVEN HUNDRED military bases in over ONE HUNDRED countries? Caesar and Hitler would be so proud. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 216
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
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Abm:
I remember the Sun Never Set on the British Empire. I remember Kruschev saying "We Will Bury You"
I remember Korea and Vietnam, and remember Saigon is now named Ho Chi Minh City, and that the big companies are over there doing business with those devil Commies like nothing ever happened and note that they ain't throwing cream pies at our men and women over there, and that the biggest export from Iraq seems to be American Flag Draped corpses.
I don't see no crowds around the recruiting stations, and you go talk to some young 18 year olds to see what they think about a draft or going over there.
No, everyone will talk big talk but when it comes down to putting their behinds on the line they will all think of something more important to do, as did several of the architects of this fiasco when they had their chance to make the world safe for democracy in the 60's.
Whoever is in charge over there will have to sell us the oil, and will sell us the oil, so in the end it will all work out. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 403
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 01:37 pm: |
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Politics do indeed make strange bedfellows. Members of Saddam's Republican Guard are now patrolling side-by side with American troops to keep the peace in one of those Iraqi cities. And - wouldn't it be something if there was a military coup in this country, wherein the big brass, who are so dissatisfied with Rumsfeld, make a move to overturn an administration which everybody, including fellow Republicans, is starting to realize has put America on the path to ruination. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 302
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 10:09 pm: |
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hmmm...it all started with wwii or should i say the cold war and the military industrial complex...ya need oil, no?
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 68
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
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Wow Chris,
Can I attend your next lecture? I want front row seats. But first, how do yo think we will leave IraQ, with a whimper or a blast?
And don't forget the second biggest export, the gold bars being brought out to line the pockets of our fearless leader and company via big business of "building up Iraq" |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 11:10 am: |
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A_womon:
They will do just like Richard Nixon did with Nam--they will declare the war over, that we won, and get out. Then they will stand back, let the different factions fight it out, and deal with the one that wins.
The whole thing is a big money grab--billions of dollars at stake--it is a shame that so many lives will be taken and ruined. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 409
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 12:09 pm: |
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Um, scuse me, Professor Chris, you are familiar with the Tet offensive, aren't you? - wherein under an intense blitzkrieg from the Viet Cong, American civilians and military forces, caught off guard, evacuated the country amidst utter chaos. Did Nixon declare this a victory??? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 72
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 08:07 pm: |
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Cynique, Chris
Can one of you, or anybody for that matter, please explain to me how the hell the press got hold of those pictures of the Iraqi prisoners? I just don't get it.
and why were they allowed to be made public? It makes me ill to think of one of the brothers over there fightin and things for a cause that has not been clearly explained, and now these pix have surfaced and fanned the flames, making a hopeless engagement that much worse, because now our soldiers are fair game for ANY Iraqi who feels personally mortified by the display of nudity (Big no no over there) and utter lack of respect they feel was shown them. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 09:31 pm: |
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I heard that one of the participants showed the pictures and tapes to his father who then released them to the press because he didn't want his son to be a scape goat in case anything came up later. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 11:40 am: |
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Cynique:
Tet was in 68 while Johnson was still President. Though Nixon started a draw down in 1969, we did not officially get out until 1972, after we had bombed the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table. At the time it looked like Peace With Honor. In 1975 we found out what it really was.
Cynique and Awoman:
It is obvious that the press has gotten the go ahead to release this stuff--and not from the Pentagon or the government, from the people who own our press. If the owners of the media, most of who are conservative and Republican, had not wanted those pictures out we wouldn't have seen them--or maybe they might have been on the net for a minute before they were yanked--as the Berg video has been because the site had "too many users" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 422
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 12:11 pm: |
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Chris,I'm not disputing what you say, but just what did we find out in 1975? That we actually lost that war? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 01:07 pm: |
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Cynique:
Exactimento. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 180
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
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Chris,
Why do you think the mainline US press OK’d the release of pics? Do you think they did so to sabotage Bush’s reelection bid? Do you think the press released them only because they know that if they didn’t, some small upstart and/or international and internet media would, in which case they would have been scooped of all ratings (and/or any other economic benefit that has ensued)? Or do you proffer some other justification? |
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