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     Theprophetess Newbie Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: |
Harriet Tubman was for Reparations; Condolezza Rice is against Reparations; Which one is in the right? Harriet Tubman so dubbed 'General' by Abraham Lincoln and General Ulysses S. Grant was a woman God used to perform the greatest miracles ever pulled off in U.S. history. This great heroine born into enslavement, escaped enslavement and became one of the major leaders in the Underground Railroad. Harriet's testimony was that "it was God Almighty who would anoint her to go south and rescue black men, women and children from the jaws of the demonic white enslavement." 19 times the Lord led her into the enslavement and 19 times he led her safely out with his precious cargo of freed black men, women and children. Ever showing that Almighty God was against the diabolical white race. Truly, Harriet was a undercover secret agent like no other. She w orked for God and later for the U.S. Union army. She led a black man battalion into the heart of dixie and destroyed one of their main military outposts. If this great victory wasn't enough, she also freed another 700 men, women and children in that region and brought them safely back to Union territory. She was also a nurse in the Union Army and aided many sick and afflicted. This mind you, while she continued to speak out on the rights of the enslaved. In other words, she was a abolistionist freedom activist whose achievements included physically lifting up and snatching a black man from the midst of whites who wanted to send him back into enslavement. The abolitionists with her then carted him off to safety. Last but certainly not least, Harriet Tubman spoke out on women's rights. Yes, indeed, God and the Black woman struck a mighty blow against the demonic spirit of whites. Though many fine, valiant black men arose and did exploits, no man ever came close to eq ualling her deeds. Slavery was officially ended in 1865. Though Harriet had worked ceaselessly for the Union Army the demonic white Union faction refused to pay her her wages. They said, 'she wasn't officially sworn in the armed services.' This, even though General Grant assigned her to do the work she did and Abraham Lincoln commended her great work. You see the demonic spirit is in the white race whether they call themselves Union or Confederate, liberal or conservative, Jew or Gentile, Men, women or children, Democrat or Republican. Now, mind you the white-wing republicans have in the past 2 decades, again tricked their colored trained ones into more or less yipping at blacks who work through the white Democrat party, this 'my white massa bettr'n yourn' but the fact is, we are dealing with a demonic spirit within the white race no matter what they call themselves. The intelligent know that and work with, not worship, whites who are willing to allow black advantage . We note there are exceptions in the rare Caucasians like John Brown, some among the Quakers, certain abolitionists and individual caucasians throughout American history. And in fact, Caucasians overall can be divided into 2 groups, rare, few indeed, wonderful truth loving caucasians and then there is the diabolical white race who act on the Satanism originally unleashed by their forefathers. This demonic spirit lied and called itself 'white superiority' and/or 'Christian.' This is the Satanic spirit bred into one generation after another of whites and as said, they do act thereon. So we see, the issue at hand, is as it always has been, white against black. At any rate, after enslavement the Union controlled government of that day promised reparations to disenfranchised black humanity in the amount of '40 acres and a mule.' This they did in order for blacks to have a starting place to build upon. They had been forced to work against their will for white advancement, and now that they were legally free, they needed a starting place to work for themselves and their families. Thus, the price whites were willing to relent for the blood, sweat and tears of black humanity of that era, was '40 acres and a mule.' Mind you, this was not payment for 400yrs. of enslavement. That innocent blood will ever remain on their hands as a testimony against them before God. Rather, this was solely payment to the freed enslaved living in 1865. All of those slave's names were recorded in Congress by reason of them being tax write-off for demonic slaveholders. Those names are there to this day. Believe me, greedy white enslavers wanted every tax advantage they could get their hands on, so they weren't hardly going to leave a name out. Still, white hierarchies being treacherous would renege on the promise anyway. Mind you, this was 'under' payment for services rendered. In other words, it wasn't a 'hand-out.' Instead, it was a smitt en of the amount blacks had more than earned during the torturous enslavement years. Indeed, it was black's property and/or wealth. How else would they feed their families? Where would they live? Whites didn't want blacks living around them and truth be told, many a black ex-enslaved was recorded as saying, 'if they never saw another white, it would be too soon.' So in the America that blacks had built. Blacks had fought in a Civil War to free fellow blacks, arrangements had to be made for the evil whites had did. Blacks with no other choice, gladly accepted the offer of '40 acres and a mule' and awaited the promised delivery of wealth earned. It never came. Harriet specifically comes into play here, for she had worked as a maid amidst all her other voluntary freedom works. She saved up a great portion of money in order to buy herself a home. If memory serves me right, I think abolitionists might have contributed some towards the purchase and she bought a beautiful home in upstate New York. However, the bulk of black humanity was still in poverty with no place to live. There were few jobs offered blacks and as so, you had multitudes of homeless black masses. Harriet would open her beautiful home to blacks. She kept her home open to them all the days of her life. Now, how to feed and clothe them? As said, the north might have fought in the war on the side of 'freedom of the enslaved,' albeit we all know the war was not originally fought for enslavement. Enslavement was thrown in later after much pressure from abolitionists and after the Union was losing ground in the war. Still, Harriet petitioned the government on behalf of the masses of blacks left homeless and destitute. She petitioned for the owed reparations so blacks could get started building their lives. She tirelessly went around the country aiding disenfranchised blacks and calling for the powers that be to turn over the owed reparations so blacks could have a fighting chance. This great woman would labor in vain but oh, she labored none the less. Blacks all over the U.S. did what they could in spite of white injustice. In fact, after the war, blacks built several communities with the pennies and nickels they could scrap together and prosperity occurred. One of the reasons they were able to do this, particularly in the south, was because Union officers were stationed there after the war to protect them. Blacks grew and became prosperous in several regions throughout the south. They with great pride, built their own schools, businesses, churches, restaurants, and the community was self-refueling. Then after Grant's term was up, the next President Hayes wanted to curry the favor of white southerners so he pulled the protection and the Klan took over and destroyed all that blacks had built. They lynched, killed, tortured, and in general wreaked havoc on blacks so much so that many had to escape the south with barely the clothe s on their backs. Others were left destitute and the cycle of Willie Lynch subserviency began anew. There was no one to teach blacks different anymore as whites drove out or killed all who dared. Again, we are talking strictly from 1865 to 1965. Many have heard of the famed black township of Rosewood and Black Wallstreet. All of it was black generated prosperity and all of it was torn down by whites. All the wealth the few blacks who could accumulate wealth was stolen and hoarded by whites. Still, tirelessly, Harriet trudged on while all these wretched horrors were going on. As such is the case, never let it be said, blacks don't help our own for the fact is, decent, righteous blacks always, sought to build the community.That was always the objective. Gain wealth and build black societies run by blacks for blacks amidst white amerikkk. That was/is the plan for righteous blacks of truth! Harriet believed in reparations all the way up to her 1913 death. She knew blacks were 'owed' this money and needed the earned reparations so that blacks could live and leave the wealth to their children. The black would then pass black wealth down to blacks just as whites passed white wealth down to whites. Harriet on her death bed would tell blacks to continue to pray to God and by all means, continue fighting for the owed reparations. Not 100 years after her death arises colored republicans fighting against the disposition of the anointed Harriet Tubman. Enter white bred and trained Condolezza Rice and her white trained rotes. "Naw suh, I'm not for reparations." Not only her, but colored republicans in general and many naive', ignorant blacks fight against reparations. These have been whitewashed to believe themselves inferior. In so doing, their disposition is, 'the blacks of 1865 era are not worthy of the funds owed them.' Again, these funds would have been passed down to blacks and blacks would have had a fighting chance at bu ilding black townships all over the U.S.. Building it mind you, with wealth that the ex-enslaved wanted to pass on to blacks. Yet, Condi and her colored republicans say, no. They are house knee-gro and knee-gresses who are as enslaved to whites as the literal enslaved house-knee-gro was. Whites taught them that the owed reparations was not theirs' to have so they like trained pets, rote white demonism to their own shame and disgrace before Almighty God. Fathom this black women, Harriet Tubman up until her 1913 death fought for reparations and less than 100 yrs. since her death coloreds like Condolezza withstand Harriet Tubman herself. That great heroine who God used is withstood by these ogres who whites use. By the way, the 'owed' 40 acres and a mule that didn't go to blacks, remained with whites. That is, they used it to build white America while cursing black America for having nothing but poverty, despair, un-employment, which leads to crime and horror i n black society. Their colored trained ones join in to voice the same curses at 'blacks.' Yes, these who sit in ivory towers looking down on blacks dare to be so abominable before Almighty God as to defy God and curse blacks while living off of wealth they stole from black humanity. Ichcabod! That means There Is No Glory! (1 Sam. 4:21). As such evil is that which sadly rules over black humanity let us make the case for the reparations. Let us, honor Harriet by fighting for her owed funds to go to blacks and be stripped from wicked whites. Let us, fight for the earned reparations of enslaved black humanity of the 1865 era, to go towards creating 'Willie Lynch' deprogramming centers. Black media, medical, military, as that wealth is stolen black wealth that must be relinguished from the hands of demonic whites. The spirit of our enslaved ancestors would to this day have said promised wealth go towards black advancement not whites! Let us withstand Condolezza's evil, subservient disposition and continue the cry as Harriet that prophetess, warrior, of God asked us to do. See then, let us keep alive our black foremothers and forefather's will and ways, just as whites and their colored trained ones keep alive their abominable white forefather's damnable will and ways. Indeed, Let us, not let Harriet down. Let us not let her labor go in vain. Rather, pick up her cross and follow her, for as history has shown us, it leads to God and freedom and righteousness and exploits and victory! | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 80 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
I have criticized Black people enough for stopping other people from doing things. I will not stop anybody from working for reparations nor will I discourage them from getting them. A couple of days ago Sam Greenlee, author of The Spook Who Sat by the Door, who describes himself as a black nationalist propagandist, said 1) We are never going to get reparations and 2) If they did he doesn't want them. He senses if they were offered there would be some trick. He says he don't want to owe white folks nothing. People calling the show told him that reparations were repayment of what he was owed. He said if it happens, everybody else can get theirs he don't want it. The way I look at it, there are large numbers of Americans whose ancestors arrived in this country after slavery who argue and will argue that they had nothing to do with it and should not be taxed for evils that happened before they arrived. The counter argument of course is that a lot of them have benefitted from the legacies of slavery--but then what of Latinos, Native Americans and others who can argue they have not benefitted from it at all, have been screwed worse (the Native Americans) or almost as bad (Latinos)--by the way both of these groups could go against black owners for reparations regarding the return of their land. Then comes the question of how they will be paid out. Some have put forth the argument that cash payments and assignment of individual responsibility might be tricky at best, why not maintain a system of scholarships, job training etc. Problem there is what about your average or below average intelligence person who cannot avail himself of a scholarship and--despite the American Myth--everybody cannot go to Harvard Medical School. Some people are destined, by environment, genes, luck what have you, to be on the low end unskilled worker part of the totem pole. What do they get? If they were to be paid out of course everybody will probably line up for them, including a lot of bootstrap types who are arguing against them (the New Black Conservative who argues against affirmative action programs while taking advantage of everyone he can get). Who will pay out the cash? Who will protect the unwary and old and slow from unscrupulous rip off artists? I have heard some people talk about setting up agencies and creating accounts and programs I don't want that gimme a check, thank you. This brings us to the last point. If and indeed we all were cut a check for a million bucks tomorrow, sooner or later the white folks would have almost all of it back from everybody, one way or another. In fact, I think that if the Govt ever gives in and says it will give out reparations, we can look for some sort of scam to redistribute it to some corporate entity or another. Re, Condi not beingbehind reparations? She works for George Bush. If you worked for him, you would be against them too--or you wouldn't work for him. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Here I go again. What do pro-reparation blacks say about the whites who are descendants of those who fought and died on the North's side during the civil war. For whatever other reasons the civil war was fought, it did bring an end to slavery, so should slave descendants owe anything to the progeny of Union soldiers? | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 124 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
cynique: As Hubert Harrison has said, "Lincoln freed the slaves to save the union." All white folk benefitted from slavery and jim crow...i think that is what reparations is about, for the most part, anyway | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 169 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Other people have said that slavery and Jim Crow were not only bad for the souls of black folk but were practices that also diminished the humanity of white people. The only reparations I would ever be in favor of would be free college scholarships set aside for any black student who was scholastically qualified. | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 125 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
well....i don't know...i do believe in reparations...for a whole lot of reasons...i'm less interested in souls and more in labor, property, etc....slavery was from its beginnings a labor system.... | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 82 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: The hell with them. They didn't go to war for "the niggers" as many of them said in their letters home. It was to save the Union. Often white union soldiers mistreated and beat up black ones. I ain't heard any of them asking for reparations. Why would you even bring that up? And as I said before, there are lots and lots of Americans whose ancestors weren't even here fighting on one side or another during that war. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 170 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I raised this question because it's a pertinent one which I'm glad irritated you. No matter whatever the other reasons were for fighting the civil war, the slaves got freed in the process. And whether you've heard about it or not, there are a lot of white people whose ancestors fought on the union side and who want the fact to be recognized that the blood of their forefaters was spilled in the Civil war. (One of whom was my history teacher.) And there are always disputes among the ranks in wars. That's how the term "fraggin" came into usuage. And with woman now fighting in combat, rape has become a problem among people fighting on the same side. | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 83 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Your history teacher was (and is, if he is still alive) a horse's ass. What had he been doing in the meantime--I'll bet some of his best friends were Negroes, eh? . And a lot of those slaves, who were bound to the land and had to sharecrop up and until the middle of the last century would have found the "freedom" you touted a very empty thing. I know you were around during the 60's. I know you at least saw TV if you didn't have relatives down South. Don't take what was happening in that little corner of Illinois you were living in as what was going on all over--I remember a white woman who really "loved" native Americans and had a lot of Native American art and jewelry and who talked about how the Native Americans got screwed--to which a mutual white acquaintance once stated to me that he wondered what her opinions would be like if there were large Native American neighborhoods in St. Louis. What does rape and fragging have to do with this discussion? Nothing. You are, as usual, being carried away. The assaults on black soldiers by their fellow soldiers were not officers assaulting their troops, but troops from other units who were assaulting "darkies" who had the temerity to put on the same uniform they had on. Read a little history--read Bruce Catton, by no means a flaming black revolutionary--then come back to this discussion. I'd like hear Paul Wolfowitz and Rudolf Giuliani opine about the service their forefathers gave in the Civil War--haw! | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 127 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
hmmmm....in my opinion slavery was just the start...crop lien system, share cropping, etc...are all related to the economic system...indeed, when many of these eastern european immigrants arrived in the late nineteenth century, their "immigrant" noncitizens identity still afforded them a greater piece of the economic, social, and political pie than black folk, citizens of the US.... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 171 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Screw all of those maudlin sob stories. Put a sock in the emotionalism. Nothing you say is a strong rebuttal to why the argument for reparations is flawed. The point is that when you start demanding that people pay you for your blood sweat and tears, there are going to be those counter your argument with their own tales of woe. When you insulate yourself with only one side of a question, one that reinforces the way you think, then you leave yourself open for challenges. Maintaining a little perspective never hurt a free thinker. Also, you were the one who brought up the dissension among the ranks in the Union army so this is why I mentioned "fraggin" and rape. As for Indians, I don't know about elsewhere but the Seminoles in Florida are being paid reparations. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 172 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
My last post was meant for Chris, Yukio. To you, I say that I am not denying that blacks have been victims of great injustices. Immigrant Chinese railroad workers also were treated terrible. But the question of reparations is not a clear-cut issue; it is something that lends itself to great debate. | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 84 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: You have read Bruce Catton that fast? I think not. You have come to the discussion unprepared. You must do some woodshedding first. Maudlin sob stories. Emotionalism. Without them your posts would berry berry short. Don't worry Cynique. At one time, too, I was like you. Nebulous. Unformed. Uninformed. I'm gonna git your mind right. | ||
| Theprophetess Newbie Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Dear ChrisHayden your intelligence stands out like a beacon light. Cynique I get your 'devil's advocate' stance, and now that you've explained it, I appreciate the diversity of thought but first let me address the first well articulated comments of Chris Hayden. Okay Chris, here we go. First of all, the 'OWED' reparations will not go directly to blacks. What MUST happen is the elite or blessed with intelligence, must allocate the funds to what I call the M & M's which equals a 'medical,' 'military,' and 'media.' That way ALL whether high IQ or low will be blessed with the OWED reparation funds. First we create a 'MEDIA' i.e. NATIONAL BLACK TELEVISION stations of EXCELLENT HIGH QUALITY. In other words, a 24hr. BLACK CNN, as well as a 24hr PBS where we DE-WILLIE LYNCH blacks with the TRUTH about black history. As you must already know, every learned black was un-shackled if you will, by learning the TRUTH. So in this way, 'ALL' blacks are receiving PRICELESS reparation benefits. There is a Bible Scripture that says, 'the entrance of God's word giveth light and healing.' As God is TRUTH then the collective masses are receiving 'healing benefits' from the reparation that would go towards a BLACK MEDIA. Not only that, but we will offer STOCK PURCHASE so that Black TV will be owned by all blacks. A minimal $10.00 for the least to the greatest will insure a 'future' and 'ongoing' BLACK TV. Now mind you, not only will the BLACK CNN, PBS, be brought into existence by the OWED reparations but black religious programming will be offered to ALL the diverse BLACK RELIGIONS to teach their various flocks. Again, the least to the greatest is blessed and receiving priceless wealth from the good use of the reparation funds. Again, offering stock options or rather investing a part of the funds as stock options for blacks will assure prosperity that will give the collective nation a sense of pride in BLACK OWNED ENTERPRISE. Even perhaps, allocating the profits to long-term investment in retirement funds or something of that nature. This way, the funds do NOT go back to whites as they would if the masses were given a check. Okay next, the medical, with the OWED reparations, we give FULL COVERAGE HEALTH INSURANCE to all blacks who are not covered. And, for those who are covered, the HEALTH INSURANCE availability becomes a SAFETY NET in that if they did lose their jobs they know they are covered. In this case, those who are already covered, rejoice in the fact that our black ancestors are supporting those who are not, which is their will and hopefully the will of all learned blacks. As well, we build medical centers for black doctors to do research into sickle cell, Aids, and all other diseases affecting blacks, and the world at large, but specifically blacks. Again the collective 'ALL' are blessed from this action. Also, we altogehter shut down white racism's influence in the judicial hierarchy in that we create black medical centers to test every facet of blacks. Melanin, hair folicles, heart, kidneys, you name it. In other words, we have black owned DNA LABS like the famed 'cellmark' I think it is? That way, no trial in America with a black defendant could go on without the black having a say and a greeeeat influence on ALLEGED DNA EVIDENCE.....Again, ALL the collective 'BLACK ALL' is blessed by the USEFUL OWED REPARATIONS. Okay, those are but a couple of examples of how the OWED reparations bless the collective BLACK. Next, the MILITARY...what I mean by that is, we knock out the demonic spirit of white racist police brutality by implementing a literal HANDPICKED BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT to protect us and this can and WILL be done. You being learned must have surely heard of the famed, 'guardian angel' Curtis somebody from NY? Well, that's how we will start it, from there, we will implement our forces into the literal police hierarchy in major urban areas, ALL BLACK TOWNSHIPS of course, and we stripped the white fiend from legal police power to hurt us. We implement under the neighborhood watch programs a POLICE FORCE...we use our FRIENDS among the police hierarchy to help us and I guarantee you crime will drop 90% as blacks with a police force they can trust will gladly aid such a power force in getting rid of criminal scum. I have facts to back it up. Remember NOI (nation of Islam) polices areas and were paid with OUR tax dollars to do so. Crime in those areas decreased by 50% until the whites who called themselves Jews had it stripped because of their unjust hate and vilification of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan and NOI. (Note: NO, I'm not nor ever will be NOI. They are black folk in my eyes unjustly harassed by white so-called Jews and gentiles. When will it be our turn?) At any rate, again the collective ALL blacks are blessed by reparations that MAKE A BIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE! See what I'm saying Chris Hayden? Crime free black neighborhoods are priceless to all thanks to the OWED reparations of our ancestors. Right now, those reparations are in the hands of WHITES and our ancestors would have it productively in the hands of WE their black descendants. Okay as well, under the heading of MILITARY is security forces for black businesses that will come back into the black neighborhood. That means jobs for blacks by blacks. Not only that, but we could have summer camps for our restless youth. Teach them Karate, specifically the girls, and other useful military techiques. You see where I'm going with this? In all these matters, and then some, under the category of 'military' goes a host of other jobs, benefits that aids the COLLECTIVE BLACK ALL and in all these M & M's 'ALL' blacks are blessed and benefit from reparation without ever receiving a personal check. These then are just a few of the ways the OWED reparations will go towards blessing 'ALL' blacks without blacks ever having to worry about all the questions you posed or, worrying about getting a check and giving it back to whites. Oh yes dear Chris Hayden, with the OWED reparations we WILL overcome the demonic spirit of white racism and to think, the ancestors will be they whose funds are responsible for it. Okay, it's late Friday and I don't have the time to answer Cynique and Yukio's well thought out commentary. I will return to it as soon as I can. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 173 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, Chris, I am not going to continue putting myself in the position of defending white people. But you are kidding yourself if you think that your stance is indisputable. It isn't. Every argument has 2 sides and the side you're taking is not that overwhelming. You think it is, because you aren't being objective. | ||
| Blkmalereading Regular Poster Username: Blkmalereading Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2004 Rating: N/A |
This has been interesting to read. Here are some recent payouts that the US have made in reparations: 1971 -- $1 billion plus 4 million acres of land for the Alaska Natives Land Settlement 1980 -- $81 million for the Klamath tribes of Oregon 1985 -- $105 million for the Lakota people of South Dakota 1988 -- $1.2 billion for the Civil Liberties act for Japanese Americans interred during World War II 1998- The Jewish Reparations Bill of 1998 The Self Determination Committee has also Uncovered a Jewish Reparations Bill Which the U.S. Congress Passed into Public U.S. Law on June 23, 1998 | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 175 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Just for the record, the point I was making was that what if white descendants of soldiers on the Union side decided that they shouldn't have to pay reparations to blacks because their forefathers fought and died in a civil war which, among others things, brought an end to slavery? Also, what if the argument over reparations advances to the point where demands are made for a differentiation to be made between black descendants of slaves and black descendants of free "Negroes?" The debate over reparations is fraught with "what ifs" which is why it is such a slippery slope. | ||
| Theprophetess Newbie Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique well do you miss the point and I daresay those strawman absurd diversional so-called 'arguments' against the owed reparations is that which you heard from whites. Again, we are talking about 'OWED' funds that were not paid out. The U.S government of that day announced that they 'OWED' blacks the skim sum allocated, which was 40 acres and a mule. This then is a DONE DEAL that never manifested itself because of the demonic spirit of white racism. See then the owed reparations has nothing to do with what 'northern soldiers ancestors would say' or with who was and was not here in America. The fact is, America 'OWES' this sum of money to black's descendants as it would have been ours if our ancestors had received it, for that is who they would have left it to. For those who say 'they weren't here' then butt out, we aren't talking to you, we're talking to the ones who were here. They weren't here when blacks were forced to build the 'White House' but they benefit from the white house in that that is where the business of the U.S. in run from. Besides the '40 acres and a mule' kept from blacks were/are used by whites so whites benefit from it to this day. So we see, those hypotheticals are that's just cruel, stupid ramblings anyway, easily, so easily dismissed with the weapon of truth. Again, this is a matter of funds more than earned by our black ancestors that the U.S. reneged on. It has nothing to do with strawman diversional hypotheses. As blkmanreading showed, the funds are there, and given out even to factions that don't deserve them such as the Jews who resist blacks getting funds while they take them for their selves. Which answers the 'where will we get the funds' from? We get it from the same place the Jews got it, the Indians got it, the Japanese got it, our collective tax dollar. Meaning, every black person's 'collective' tax dollar so we for darn sure don't mind our 'collective' tax dollar going to benefit us via that which was 'owed,' not a handout but 'owed' funds to our ancestors. In other words, every stram-man absurdity thrown at us, is just proof the diabolical white race remains demonic and anti-truth, justice and equality. By the way, did anyone ask the other groups who did 'receive' reparations what they felt about their 'own' tax dollar going to pay for their reparations? No, you don't hear stupid arguments like that then, they just pay the money as they will do towards blacks whether they like it or not. End of story that Cynique no amount of ridiculous strawman diversions can knock down. Truth and right is on the side of our receiving the 'owed' reparations as the 1865 ex-slaves would have it no other way. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 176 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
The points I raised are not necessarily my sentiments. These are the simplistic arguments of the people who raise these issues, and you can't neutralize them with a lot of high-minded rhetoric. Black people wield no great amount of power in this country. Their grievances may be justified but they are nothing more than cries in the wilderness, and let's face it, black folks will just have to be satisfied with affirmative action, section 8s and welfare. Harsh words I know, but if you want to talk about truth, then you have to deal with what the afore-mentioned programs represent in the minds of those in power. By now, I would think that black folks would realize that they are not going to get anything more than what white folks want them to have. There is no justice in this world, And pie in the sky is just that: pie in the sky. | ||
| Blkmalereading Regular Poster Username: Blkmalereading Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2004 Rating: N/A |
African-Americans have somewhere between 600-700 billion dollars, in a capitalistic economy that spells power. The fact that 'we' don't seem to understand that is the biggest problem. We can't decide between ourselves if we should get reparations. When we speak with one collective voice, as we did many times during the civil rights era, America certainly sees that power. A bunch of people who all decided to not get on a bus for over a year is what changed that situation and many like it. Corporate America is not just satisfied with one 'welfare' program they continue to lobby and fight for cuts and breaks each chance they get. The people who are really in power understand and know that white women are the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action, the hispanic and Asian communites benefit as well. Civil rights did not just help a few Black folks. The same for section 8 and welfare programs. I understand what you are saying cynique, to the powers that be, those program are our reparations... I would say just like other groups who were handed some appeasing piece of legislation, they continue to fight for what they percieve as being rightfully theirs. Israel will forever get reparations in the form of billions of dollars in funds and military assistance. I believe that the reparations issue is being taken seriously by many and just as we did during the civil rights area, slowly the walls will be broken down. Also, just as with the civil rights, they were naysayers who believed we should just be happy that master gave us a job and allowed us to sharecrop on his farm and whatever bit of crumbs they passed our way. But those same naysayers ended up enjoying the spoils of the war, even when they themselves didn't think it wise to fight. I guess this will always be so. If you read up on some of the proposals that are being framed around reparations: if you are against or don't agree with reparations they have included a clause that allows you to opt-out. I just personally wish that those who are not interested would step aside, opt-out and just let the 'pie in the sky' Black folks who believe that this fight is worthy and eventually can be won, work at getting reparations for themselves and those who are interested. Every Black person who is interested in reparations should actually get involved send funds, volunteering time, writing your congressman, attending rallies etc. I freed thousands of slaves. I could of freed thousands more, had they known they were slaves. -Harriet Tubman | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 177 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Are you in favor of reparations, Blackmalereading? I said I was for scholarships being made available for gifted black students as a form of reparation. And since the demand for reparations is the latest crusade for certain black leaders with an agenda, I say lotsa luck to them and their followers because they have a long road ahead. I also caution them to be careful what they wish for, because they might get it. Nothing is free in this world. There's always a hidden price to pay, one that is not necessarily in the form of money. | ||
| Kathleen_cross Newbie Poster Username: Kathleen_cross Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Reparations for "gifted" students??? I once sat in a middle school counseling office for three hours arguing with a white woman who refused to place my 8th grade daughter in an Algebra class. I was told my child had to be recognized by the state of California as "Talented and Gifted" to gain access to what the school referred to as "Honors Curriculum". After a long and heated verbal battle, (I threatened a lawsuit) the counselor pulled some strings and Melody was placed on their "Honors Track." Needless to say, she was one of a handful of Black children on that track. She is now a junior at UCSB. My point is, giving reparations to "gifted" students only exacerbates what is already a sick systemic problem. Poor and middle class Black American children are four times more likely than white ones to receive low-level lessons from an inexperienced and/or ineffective teacher. (Urban kids are coloring and filling out worksheets in middle school while others are designing computer models) My child is an "average learner" whose life was forever changed by access to challenging curriculum. Thank God she has a mother who could fight for her. Many urban children don't have that luxury. Cynique -- under your plan the masses of Black children will be academically prepared to wash the BMW's of those Black gifted children who get slavery reparations set aside only for them. It would make more sense to use the money to pay incentives to EXPERT teachers to improve the quality of education for urban students. For more information on the quality gap in education for Black and Brown children visit www.edtrust.org or www.theachievementcouncil.org | ||
| Theprophetess Newbie Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Blkmanreading how on target are you...excellent, excellent commentary. Cynique I do fear you are a pessimist. How wrong are you with the limited power of blacks. Let me assure you in unison with BMR that the black has great power as he pointed out with regard to the 'busing boycott.' That was black unity that resulted in a greaaaat victory for blacks. Blacks have yet to utilize our collective power on a consistent all out battle front but as this is the 21st century, we will....prophesy itself declares, WE WILL and in so doing we will not only shake the earth with our united power but the heavens themselves that will be set to work for our good for you see, the 400yr. cycle of white prominence closed circa 2000. Make no mistake about that. This is not high-minded idealism rhetoric that I am putting forth but fact. The black or rather, factions thereof, have been sorely brainwashed anew in the demonic spirit of Willie Lynch but fear not, the 'Gideon 300' is all that the divine force of truth ever used to lead the masses and the 'Gideon 300' (a Biblical event that showed the power of God working through the FEW COURAGEOUS AND INTELLIGENT TO HELP THE MANY (Judges 6-9). Others refer to it, as the 5% intelligent ones uniting. At any rate, it is the 21st century and the long overdue 'OWED' and 'PROMISED' reparations will be granted....period! Great on the money comments blkmanreading. Let me add to your well thought out and articulated points, the fact is, blacks have immense power that whites fear. This is why they hate notable leaders who all out resist them such as the Honorable Louis Farrakhan and NOI. This is why they vilify them in that these allow them to have no say in how black America in run. They can't deal with that on any level but compliance. Still, how right you are, "600-700 million in spending power" is indeed GREAT POWER. Moreso, imagine if the people of color who are ALL blessed from the few valiant blacks that alone, made the American workplace 'multicultural' were to come into full understanding that it was BLACK AMERICA ALONE, (the valiant among us) who wrought their security, and that it was WHITE AMERICA ALONE, who RESISTED THEIR SECURITY IN THE WORKPLACES OF AMERICA could grasp that TRUTH and unite with blacks then white America would tremble in its deceptive boots, if you will and in fact, do so to this day. Now, that is not only the as you aptly pointed out, '600-700 million power' but that is power over the brown, red, yellow intelligent faction's will and the black has un-limited power to rock America to its core. After all, Throughout all eternity the fact remains that 'blacks (solely the valiant faction), made America 'mulitcultural and whites resisted it as they do to this day. If the masses are ever wakened up to this truth, and they will be, then white America is shown up for the monstrous, demonic, racist, fiends that they are, Amen? Bottom line, I 100% agree with you on the true spelled out wealth of the black. Cynique you have missed the boat by a loooooooooongshot, truly you have. Dear Kathleen Cross your testimony is just proof that God/Goddess has leadership already armed to bring about the educational victory that blacks need. God/Goddess has prepared you to do the same you did for your child, for millions of black children who have potential but need a spokeswoman....Hello spokeswoman..:-) | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 179 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kathleen Cross, as soon as I posted I realized I would get flack about using "gifted" to describe the children who should receive free scholarships. It is a tricky distinction to make but I would assume that if black folks were doing the judging, they would use a criteria that would leave no gifted child behind. Unless a free scholarship is to be given to every high school graduate, you have to set some standards. This is not something I'm passionate about however. I see your point. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 180 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Blackmalereading and Prophetess, obviously I am out of step with all you who talk a good fight and offer good sound bytes. Yet nothing you are saying is new or innovative and has scant manifestation in the REAL WORLD. But soldier on. I hope you are all right and that I am wrong. That remains to be seen, obviously. | ||
| Theprophetess Regular Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 35 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique truth is itself a 'innovative' weapon of which I as a spiritual being yield to. Truth is God/Goddess and no amount of ridiculous strawman diversional rhetoric comes close to knocking it down. If you will receive truth, you will know this. As for the REAL WORLD, the REAL WORLD is infected by truth just by putting forth truth. You stir the righteous to PRAY for the TRUTH and that in itself, is the ultimate REAL WORLD. The alleged 'scant manifestations' is null and void in that 'speaking the truth' is the 'manifestation' of the inevitable fall of our enemies the diabolical white race and their colored proselytes who aid and abet them. The enemy manifested their evil by first 'talking it' so it is incumbent upon blacks to 'talk it' to the point that a unison of voices are talking, shouting, screaming it to the heavens and the heavens will knock it down. Just rejoice in the fact that TRUTH has knocked out the lies and deceits of the Caucasoids, if you are truly for black liberation from ALL white rule. The REAL WORLD becomes REAL by putting TRUTH in it to make it REAL just as the enemy put LIES AND DECEITS to make it REAL....that is the REAL of it all....do not forget this priceless REAL lesson given FREELY unto you. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 185 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Well, Prophetess, there's the truth, and then there's the whole truth. For at least the past 20 years black people in both low and high places have been sounding off about "what black people need to do," to improve their lot. And now all major civil rights organization are saying that their feed-back reveals that most black folks feel that things have regressed and that we are worst off now than we were before. What is it about what you are pontificating has brought about change in the situation?? Talk is cheap. And truth is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. And the eye of the beholder is sometimes obscured by delusions of grandeur. | ||
| Blkmalereading Regular Poster Username: Blkmalereading Post Number: 34 Registered: 02-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: I am in favor of reparations for people around the world who have been wronged by governments and big business. The discussion about what form reparations should come is something that seems to still be in debate. Most the organizations who are involved in the push for reparations are proposing a combination of different things. I believe this would make more sense in the long run. Just giving to a scholarship program can be tricky, as Kathleen Cross has pointed out. If you check out some of the websites for those who are addressing this issue, you can see some of the different suggestions that are being raised. Most are suggesting a combination of things. You are correct in you do need to becareful as to what and how you wish for certain things. If other groups of people are deemed 'worthy' to be 'awarded', repaid for crimes that were committed against them, I don't see why this should be different for people of African descent. I also agree that we seem be broken and that somethings have regressed, even more reason for some type of action to take place. I see that happening in various forms each and everyday. We are not all sitting around and excepting or being a part of the status quo. Prophetess it may of just been a typo but the figure is BILLION. 600-700 BILLION dollars. | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 87 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Most of them (Civil War Soldiers) volunteered. They all got paid--twice what black Civil War Soliders, of which there were some 180,000--do you think they are owed reparations for getting half pay? Almost all of them promptly forgot about the Negro once it was all over. Their service lasted at most four years and many of them made out quite well after the war in politics and in business, throwing out their service to the country at the drop of a hat. I'd like to see how many of those people that throw these arguments out can prove that their ancestors were in the war (or what they did) or, whether they were even in the country at the time. | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 129 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
hmmmmm.....i've not read much of the posts, so i respond with apprehension. This in response to cyn's reply to myself and CH...days old i know...but there is a huge difference, as we know, between the oppression of "others" and black folk in this country...white folk have been oppressed as well by other whites...the japanese, etc...indeed, it is arguable(since really anything is debatable)that placing the Japanese in internment camps since the US was bombed by the Japanese, or that since black folk sell drugs and are poor, they should be stopped by the police... all of this makes some sense, NO? It is really about evaluating and determining is what is and is not essential in this discussion...and two of many essential points is that to give reparations to African Americans would be to destroy the fact that the US is not a democracy, part of its rhetoric of democracy today is that its legacy seems unblemished, though all one has to do is pick up a book read otherwise.....two is, is internment camps and the exploitation of the chinese, really comparable either is economic or political terms to African Americans contribution to this country as slaves and exploited labor? This is just two.... | ||
| Theprophetess Regular Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
CYNIQUES' ONGOING COMMENTS:"Well, Prophetess, there's the truth, and then there's the whole truth. For at least the past 20 years black people in both low and high places have been sounding off about "what black people need to do," to improve their lot. And now all major civil rights organization are saying that their feed-back reveals that most black folks feel that things have regressed and that we are worst off now than we were before. What is it about what you are pontificating has brought about change in the situation?? Talk is cheap. And truth is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. And the eye of the beholder is sometimes obscured by delusions of grandeur." ================================================== Cynique the problem with your little discombulated commentary is that you miss the whole point. You're erractically all over the place on this rather simple truth. Let me put it as succint as I can. The U.S. government already PROMISED REPARATIONS to blacks of the 1865 era. That's what makes our specific cry for reparation a UNIQUE ONE. That is, it is a DONE DEAL even though they reneged on the promised reparations. In other words, with regard to the black call for reparation the FACT IS, we are calling for that which the U.S. already admitted it OWED blacks. Erego, all these hypothesis on what others might say is irrelevant. As for the state of black America, I can't go by what you say some blacks say there state is....Common sense tells us we're better off than we ever were. We're not segregated. We have Civil Law on the book to protect us. We have and in some cases, 'had' AA on the books to force white male run America to do just by us. So we've come a long way even if the truth is we have a long way to go. Keeping ones' eyes on the prize does not make for 'delusions of grandeur' as you spoke it, rather it's just that being a visionary, praying for the betterment of us as a people and even an avowed atheist can say, 'prayer can't hurt.' So enough of this going round and round, 'straining at a gnat, swallowing a camel' rhetoric you are spewing. The plain undisputed unadulterated TRUTH and in this case, 'ISSUE' is, 'reparations' is un-contestedly owed and reparations we shall get. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 189 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Inconsistent comments coming from somebody preaching about black liberation and ridding ourselves of the white people from whom all evil springs and whom you presumably think are going to give you these reparations. If blacks didn't get their 40 acres and a mule, what makes you so sure they're going to get these reparations they are "owed". And I'm not talking about things getting worst since the civil war, I'm talking about things getting worst since all the gains that were made during the struggle in the 60s. Your tunnel vision seems to be greatly disrupted by someone who has peripheral vision. | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 132 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
this is really silly...the fact is that black folk should receive reparations, the form, how its distributed, etc...are another story...will it happen, Who knows...i don't think so, is this debatable, yes...but was isn't...damn, these personal attacks "makes me wanna holla!" | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 133 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
the fact of the matter is: Everyone can't go on the ride to wealth...everyone, on the other hand should have access to healthcare, education, and a job! | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yukio: What do you think of Mishima? | ||
| Theprophetess Regular Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yeah Yukio, you're right, end of story! | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 190 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Go ahead, and "holla", Yukio. For my part, I have come to realize that when people isolate themselves from all points of view accept the one they're comfortable with, they become outraged when someone else challenges what they believe to be the gospel. I just happen to be a person who always injects a "what if" into a discussion just to shake up highly-opinionated people. | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 134 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
cynique...actually i was agreeing with your inquiry, not necessary positions, and I was disagreeing, with how theprophetess seemed to castigate you....oh well! | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 135 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
i love mishima, especially, i think, the sailor who fell from grace with the sea....one of my favs.... | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 194 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I ain't mad at U, Yukio. We cool, baby. | ||
| Theprophetess Regular Poster Username: Theprophetess Post Number: 46 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Yeah Yukio, I knew what you were saying that's why I replied, 'End of Story' but as you see Cynique has revealed that she couldn't stay focus to follow your brief comment as well as the subject matter and my follow up correspondence. Thus, my appropriate reply to both of you....End of Story. Tootaloo now | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 195 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Couldn't resist, trying to get the last word, could you, Prophetess? tsk-tsk, your pouting is showing. |
