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Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 08:47 pm: | 
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JustTheFacts, I'm interested to know what it is you didn't like about Minion. The characters? The writing? The concept? What exactly was it? Are you a fan of fantasy? Are there other vampire writers that you loved that you're comparing this author to? Is it just that you don't like romance and abhor the idea of a romance author stepping out the box? What is it? Additionally, did you read the entire book?
For anyone else that read Minion and liked/disliked it, feel free to share your thoughts about the BOOK as well. It's really interesting seeing the divide with this book.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
-Tee
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(I hope no one minds, but I'm addressing this on a new thread, pulled from the "Must Read Books" thread.)
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JustTheFacts
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 09:08 pm: |
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Tee, you have me confused with JustTheTruth. I haven't read the book and have no plans to read it. However, you asked some good questions, which is really what I was alluded to when I asked akaivyleaf about her opinions of the book. Hopefully, akaivyleaf will answer your questions since she also didn't like the book. I look forward to reading her responses, as well as, JustTheTruth's comments. |
Belinda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 09:28 pm: |
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I think it's so interesting that so many people have dogged Minion. I am not a fan of the vampire era, but I did find Minion to be a great read. I don't look at the first couple of pages and make a negative assessment, because, after all, if we're trying to look at quality material, isn't it fair to read the entire book before assuming that it's not a good piece of literature? Let's not sugar coat it - if you haven't read the book in it's entirety, you really shouldn't pre-judge. In addition, I HAVE read the follow up to Minion, which is The Awakening, and once again, Leslie does a great job with this work. |
JustTheTruth
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
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I love Vampires books.
That's exactly why I hated MINION.
After reading Steven Barnes, Stephen King and Anne Rice, it's a chore to read Minion.
1. The writing is pedestrian (slow).
2. The opening chapter is not only CONFUSING...but it's like wading through waist-high cold oatmeal. It's a chore to read it!
3. Banks had a few "interesting" and imaginative ideas...but her writing is so bland, she takes the air out of her own story.
4. The Characters were mild and not very original.
5. There was an overall PALL on the book. A ho-hum delivery
page by page...
Just boring as hell.
I couldn't get into the book.
NOTICE HOW THE SALES WERE BARELY THERE.
The sales were low and St. Martins isn't putting much into publicizing The Awakening. They're probably sorry they signed on for 3 installments.
Since L.A. Banks was HIRED to write this trilogy, and since she's a romance novelist, they should have contracted someone much edgier with a more thrilling imagination to do this series.
Her romance novels are drab, too. I disagree with people who think she can write.
This is a writer who CANNOT write.
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Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:32 pm: |
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Ooops JustTheFacts, my bad...all these names, whew, they're confusing a sista. I'm looking forward to the answers too. I love book discussions.
Belinda, I feel like reinforcement is in the house. Ahaha, it's kinda funny too, but we've talked in detail about the book, so I know your thoughts. But, you bring up a good question in regards to how much a person reads before they determine it's not good, it's junk, or any of those things. There aren't many books I haven't finished, but of those...I gave the book about 50-100 pages. I think that's enough for me to be able to "pre-judge" it. It may be a wonderful read, but it's just not for me.
I loved The Awakening too and am anticipating the next in the series. I feel like I'm hanging on the edge about to fall off. What will Carlos do? Umph umph umph. Series and sequels really work my nerves because of this, but at least it's a six month wait and not a year.
-Tee |
JustTheTruth
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:34 pm: |
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Hey Tee...a romance novelist like Francis Ray or an imaginative sexy writer like ZANE would have made MINION a winner. The plot is there, but Banks is minor.
Anyone who has read Octavia Butler or Anne Rice would have MAJOR trouble trying to wade through Minion.
Stylistically, the paragraphs are below the level of a creative writing class project.
You need a very healthy raw imagination to create a Vampire story that people can sink their teeth in.
That's why the MINION books are such big FLOPS.
Should've hired Francis Ray, Eric Jerome Dickey or someone to do this trilogy.
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Yasmin H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:11 pm: |
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I'm new here-- Wow, I can't believe so many people didn't like the book. Like many others, I am an avid vampire reader having read all of Anne Rice's chronicles plus the legacy of the Mayfair witches and Blackwood Farms. I've also read Bram Stoker and other vampire stories. Brandon Massey just came out with one and I wonder how you all will take his spin on it.
I don't see what the problem is with Banks portraying vampires in a different light. So she doesn't romanticize them as they are in Rice's novels (and Rice is my favorite author). So Bank's vampire story is urbanized and goes another route then the norms like Stoker, Rice and King. A bad book that makes? I think not.
I enjoyed Banks' concept. I appreciated the different spin on a very old story. She doesn't take away from the older authors who are experts in this subject matter. And I don't think there is anything wrong with a romance writer writing in a different genre. Rice does it as will Zane. Countless authors change genres.
And as for how the prologue in Minion ties in, the book is a trilogy written like a tv series (in my opinion) meaning you will see references to the prologue throughout Minion and Banks will refer back to it again in Awakening and then in the next book.
Rice does it all the time in her books, beginning a subject matter, leaving it alone throughout the book then touching back to it at the or whenever she feels like it. Nothing wrong with that either.
So don't be insulted at Banks' portrayal of the vamp stories. Embrace it as something different and unique, which is what it is--different, unique, and very good. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:27 pm: |
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A different and unique storyline doesn't necessarily make for a good book. The concept could be good but the writing and execution horrible. And, just because one writer can do it well doesn't necessarily mean that another writer can. If the first in a series doesn't indicate in any manner that it's the first of a trilogy then that's a problem. And, shouldn't a book stand on it's own and not rely for the successive books to tell it's story? Sounds like there are also structure problems with this one.
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Tee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:30 pm: |
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:::popping a bag of popcorn and chilling my soda:::
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Yasmin H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:35 pm: |
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Anonymous,
No, a different and unique storyline doesn't necessarily make a good book. But to me, it sounded as if Banks was being dogged out because she chose to be different and not write the typical vampire story.
You wrote that a book shouldn't rely on successive books to tell a story? Well kindly explain The Lord of the Rings trilogy. And I believe there are definite indictions in Minion that it was to be continued. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:03 am: |
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Yasmin
I never said a book shouldn't be used to tell a successive story?
What you talking about? I loved Anne Rice "Vampire Lestat" series. I like Lord of the Rings.
Banks plain can't write worth chicken scratch.
If she had written even a "typical" Vampire story, I wouldn't be mad that I bought the hard cover and was stuck with a poorly written, cardboard book.
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Katrina Merriwether
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:05 am: |
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I'm confused because I read MINION and I was thoroughly entertained and enjoyed the story a great deal. I just ordered "Awakening".
Go figure. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.
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The Other Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:41 am: |
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Yasmin, so far we've heard from one person who didn't like the book in this thread. akaivyleaf have yet to response with specifics of why she disliked the book. Besides aren't those who disliked the book reasons as valid, whatever they maybe, as those who loved the book? Because the "pro" Minion comments have been more about other things than the book itself.
I'll try my question again, shouldn't a book stand on it's own and not rely on the sucessive books to tell the story? What if other readers won't read the rest of the books in the series? Does that mean they'll never know the story of Minion?
This sequel thingy (trilogy) should more like a marketing grimmack to sell books (concerned more with quantity and quality). Instead of telling the story in one book the author stretches it out over three books. Yes, the author may have signed a contract for more than one book but anything could happen and books 2 and/or 3 may not even make it to the shelves. Is the wording, part 1 or book 1 of 3, or something similiar written on the front cover? Or is it that all these questions left on the last page of Minion? |
Yasmin H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:05 am: |
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To the first Anonymous, then we just have a difference of opinion. You think Banks can't write, I happen to think she can. And I don't think I eluded to the fact that you didn't like Anne Rice and her novels so what do you mean "what am I talking about"?
To the second Anonymous, this thread is not the first regarding Minion and so I was referring to the others who disliked the book. A book should stand on its own but if you say that about Minion, then you say that about the other books that were written to be a series of books.
If an author wrote books meant to be a series into one book. wouldn't the book be too big thus making itself unattractive to those readers who prefer smaller books to the big, thick ones?
And I'm not saying the people who didn't like Minion are wrong for their opinions. But I do think they are wrong for coming down on a person for thinking opposite of them. You don't like Minion, that's fine by me. You don't have to.
I like Minion. It's not written in the same manner as Rice butI don't think the quality is affected. Shoot, as many crappy books there are out there, Minion supercedes them by far. One person's crap is another person's pot of gold. LOL.
But I will agree with you and say that I wish that books meant to be series could be compiled into one big ole book. I happen to love big books and it keeps me from having to wait months or years for the next installment. |
The Other Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 02:23 am: |
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Yasmin,
>>To the second Anonymous, this thread is not the first regarding Minion and so I was referring to the others who disliked the book. A book should stand on its own but if you say that about Minion, then you say that about the other books that were written to be a series of books.
Well, if we were discussing other books that features a series, then I would say the same.
>>If an author wrote books meant to be a series into one book. wouldn't the book be too big thus making itself unattractive to those readers who prefer smaller books to the big, thick ones?
Maybe but then written as it is makes it unattractive to those readers who don't prefer smaller (and incomplete) books.
>>And I'm not saying the people who didn't like Minion are wrong for their opinions. But I do think they are wrong for coming down on a person for thinking opposite of them.
I agree which is why I said what I said to those who liked the book. It's as if those who disliked book are being taken to task solely for not liking the book whereas those who liked it are allowed to say it's a good book because Rice and other writers write good books, the movie Lord of Rings is a trilogy, etc.
>>You don't like Minion, that's fine by me. You don't have to.
I haven't said whether I like the book or not. But, I do thank you for allowing me to not the like the book, if that is my desire.
>>I like Minion. It's not written in the same manner as Rice but I don't think the quality is affected. Shoot, as many crappy books there are out there, Minion supercedes them by far.
This is very telling. Minion is the best of the crappy books out there. But doesn't that still make it crap? |
Belinda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:29 am: |
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It seems to me that some of this discussion is not necessarily on the book Minion, or the series, but an attack on the author (referring to earlier comments). That's not fair. About the book - I do agree that it's okay to disagree. Some people like candy, some don't. Minion is not JUST a vampire story - it's a love story and an urban parallel between good and evil. Again, if some folks would take the time to actually READ the book without trying to tear it apart, they could sit down, think about it and realize what the series is all about. It's not to be compared to other vampire writers, because frankly, I think it stands out on its own. And, the thread was written so that you would know it's a trilogy. And a LOT of books are written in a series. What about Mary Morrison and her series of books? And, she's not done yet. What's wrong with an AA black vampire love story? Nothing. Why does it have to be written with the same mindset as other writers? AND, why would they have gone to other well known writers? Maybe the company wanted to give SOMEONE ELSE a chance... |
Beyonce
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:17 am: |
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What exactly is crap? Couldn't we be a teensy more positive in discussing what we like or do not like about books we've read. That would be refreshing, I think. |
not the real beyonce
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
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Oops, sorry about that. I am not the real Beyonce. It was just the first name that came to my mind. I apologize. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
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The one thing I got from all of this discussion about "Minion" is that now I want to read it. A book that evokes this kind of visceral reaction is its own best selling point. |
Yasmin H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
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>>I haven't said whether I like the book or not. But, I do thank you for allowing me to not the like the book, if that is my desire.-The Other Anonymous
Cute. And you're very welcome.
>> This is very telling. Minion is the best of the crappy books out there. But doesn't that still make it crap?--The Other Anoymous
I loved Minion. So if it seemed like I was calling Minion crap then my apologies to the author. I thought it was great.
Belinda, you're so right in your post and you made fantastic points. If the previous threads on Minion were read, it seemed as if people were taking Minion as a personal slight against them. Oh no, the audacity of an AA urban vampire written by a romance writer! How dare L.A. Banks! Please.
The thing that bothered me is the way some posters attacked others for having the nerve to say that Minion was good, questioning reps and all that. Come on now that's crazy and a bit immature.
And not the real beyonce is right as well, we should be able to be more positive in our discussions then just tearing people down for having their own views. |
The Other Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:11 pm: |
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Belinda, I agree you that the thread has spun into discussions to other topics that is more than the specific book, Minion. There has been a mention of other authors, some of which haven't even written anything that's similar to Minion, we've read about a movie, you name it. The one person who disliked mentioned their reasons why, but it's like it's all been overlooked and only reasoned that this person is attacking the author personally and not the book. (Is saying an author can't write, something that solely speaks to the personal, yet not include commentary about their book?) But, instead of responding to those comments there are only comebacks about things that are off topic.
Why do you assume that JustTheTruth haven't taken the time to read the book, because the assessment given is different from yours?
And, yes this "thread" mentions that the book is the first of a trilogy but I asked if the something was mentioned in the book or even on the cover.
Finally, I can't speak to why the publisher chose to give this author the opportunity to write this book, I guess to know the real answers we need to ask whoever gave it the green light. |
The Other Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:24 pm: |
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Yasmin,
>>The thing that bothered me is the way some posters attacked others for having the nerve to say that Minion was good, questioning reps and all that. Come on now that's crazy and a bit immature.
I agree but I went over to amazon.com and saw that a person who said on this board that they didn't like the book, or specically they didn't agreed with Tee's assesment of the book, also gave this book a 4 (out of 5) star rating.
Quoting from their review:
Congratulations Ms. Banks on successfully centering a story on a strong, bold, independent female that can handle herself in volatile situations.
The reader gets an intimate look at the seven guardians throughout this compact read. Multicultural, multifaceted and multi talented, these guardians, hand picked to protect the slayer, make the story a most compelling read.
So, Yasmin, what does this say to you about this person (and their review), if anything at all?
>>And not the real beyonce is right as well, we should be able to be more positive in our discussions then just tearing people down for having their own views.
Agree with this as well, but it would even better if the same posters calling for such actions would also take heed themselves. |
JustTheTruth
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:43 pm: |
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Belinda...
You continue to bump your head against the wall!
NO ONE has said anything is wrong with an AA vampire love story.
The problem with MINION is that it's horribly written, boring and doesn't play out with any suspense or excitement.
I'm all for Mary Morrison books and any other author who can WRITE a good thriller. But MINION is total pulp waste.
Learn to FOCUS my dear. Bad writing ruins ANY story.
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Lass Word
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:50 pm: |
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I would also like to read a "vampire love story". Dracula was in essence just that. As I said--a talented romance novelist like Francis Ray could have made MINION a classic.
Bad writing is Bad writing, though.
I wish these people like Tee and Belinda would stop ROFL and get some standards for technical execution and paragraph structure before they come in here calling a the biggest turkey of the year--one of the best books of the year.
That's all I have to say about MINION. St. Martin's Press should be slapped for that drivel. I wasted $22 bucks and read the book cover to cover.
Just watch the sales people. Nobody's buying it 'cause the work is shoddy.
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Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 03:39 pm: |
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Thank you Just The Truth, your post is so true. It seems as if individuals that are standing behind MINION want to continually cloud the playing field with statements that do not address the point of contention which is and always has been, the quality of the author's writing. They wish to defend issues that are not being contested, shifting the focus from the real issue, which only leads to confusion.
No one has attacked the author. A statement that a book is poorly written is not an attack, it's an opinion on the quality of the writing.
When a books has been deemed by many to be of low quality specifically focusing on poor writing, I've noticed on several occasions those that liked the book in question have had a tendency to take it personally as if they are being judged and determined to be of less intelligence than those who profess or imply of having an ability to recognize quality writing.
These mistakenly slighted individual then procede to zealously defend the book and their "right" to like it. As in the case with the discussion of Minion, their defense generally relies more on abstract variables than the point of contention, the quality of writing. It's obvious why this route is taken. Poor writing for the most part can not be defended. There are standards, incorrect and confusing sentence structure generally can not be debated/defended. Anyway, check it out, note the reasoning, tone of emotion and statements used to defend MiNION and other books that have received such varied and heated opinions. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 05:49 pm: |
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Interesting dialogue, thanks for jumping in everyone. I was too tired last night to really comment in detail, so here goes. It may be long as I'm hitting everyone in one message.
JustTheFacts, again I'm sorry for confusing you. All the names are running together on me and perhaps I'm just tired, but I think someone posted on another thread and forgot their own name. Too funny.
JustTheTruth, thanks for explaining further your dislike of the book. I'm definitely going to have to check out some of the vampire books and authors you mentioned to get a feel for what it is you like. I've never read Steven Barnes and the Anne Rice I attempted to read, I couldn't get past the first chapter or so, though I really did try. That was back in 2002 and I'm not even sure what the book was now, but it was recommended to me.
I am going to go back and read the first chapter though. As for the sales, I have no way of knowing that information, nor do I hardly concern myself with sales because a lot of really good books (to me) never hit best-seller lists and some that do, I'm left shaking my head. And one question for you. What do you mean by Banks was "HIRED" to write the series? Does this mean that it wasn't her idea that she pitched to SMP? I'm also sorry to hear you don't like her romance books either. Of the ones I've read, I'd tend to disagree (again) with you. Thank goodness there are books out there for everyone...and again thanks for sharing your thoughts. Once I've gone back and re-read the first few chapters, I'll be back if my opinion has changed. (I also posted on the Must Read list as I'd love to see a list of books that you did like.)
JustTheTruth, in your next post you mentioned Octavia Butler. I've never read her either, but I absolutely love Francis Ray's writing (romance and mainstream). She's up there in my favorite author list. And wow...FLOPS? I need to talk to someone at St. Martin...that's a very strong word coming from a reader. Or, were you the one that's the bookseller?
Yasmin H. welcome. So you ARE a "vampire" lover. Now, it gets interesting. I guess I'll definitely check out Rice now. Any recommendations on where to start? (Feel free to email me directly as not to mess up the thread).
I'm going to go back and read the prologue again too. I do recall talking to someone and their dislike for the prologue in how it pulled them in and then with the first few chapters, they were disappointed and wondering how the prologue fit back in.
Anonymous, I really thought Minion stood on its own though the ending was a major cliff-hanger. I'm pretty hard on the endings of a lot of books because I think the authors purposely leave them dangling for sequels and in this case a series. It wasn't as bad for me with Minion, because I actually got the ARC of The Awakening around the same time I was reading Minion. It worked for me. The ending of Awakening has also left me wondering what's going to happen next and I'm anticipating the next in the series. I think I deal better with books of this type when I KNOW there's more coming in advance vs getting to the last few pages and left with a "hell naww" on my tongue because it appears that the author planned to drag out the story with a sequel, but didn't plan it until the end.
Katrina, let me know when you read The Awakening and what you think of it. Feel free to email me directly.
Yasmin H., good comments until you got to the wanting the series to be in one big book. Whew, that would be a mega-BAB huh?
Hey Cynique, I'd love to hear your thoughts when you read it. I've read the book and all the debate makes me want to go read it again.
Belinda, you've hit on something that I think I may have posted in another thread or maybe it was on a different board, but Minion is so much more than a vampire story, I agree. The parallels to good vs bad, the levels of hell, Carlos and his "position" in the community and what ultimately happens to him; it's all amazing to me, which is why I really enjoyed this book. I read to be entertained as well as educated and this book is clearly (to me) more than the average fiction book.
SPOILERS COMING!!!
Banks managed to tie in not only the love story that is obviously there, but also the economic and social concerns that plague our world. The slant towards sexual responsibility, parenting, and having Damali as a virgin? Brillant! The connection between drug-lords and how they suck the life out a community (lined up with Carlos and the whole vampire "cover" that this book sits behind)? Umph...brillant! Then you had the lessons on how one thing done can make a ripple throughout not only your life, but everyone else's around you? The whole levels of hell concept blew me away. I could go on and on, but I'll stop here. What I'm trying to say is that this story came to life for me. It was as if I was actually watching a movie vs reading it. I SAW "it" and boy did "it" stand out for me. Oh, I really liked how the characters all came together to protect and guard Damali and that they were black, white, red...whatever. Color didn't matter, the end goal was what they were bonded together to ensure. Briallant! Mankind needs to take some notes. These are just some of the reasons that it made my must read list and I'd really be okay if I was the only one in the world who liked it. No doubt about it.
The Other A, I'm headed over to Amazon.com in a bit, but it is indeed interesting that someone that didn't like the book gave it a 4 (out of 5) rating. I must check that out as I'm interested to see what the review says.
Lass Word,, ouch! Now I need to "get some standards." Not to sound cliche-ish, but can't we all get along? I'm not sure if you're a "new" individual who also didn't like Minion or one of the "other names" who forgot your name or wanted to go with something different this round, but feel free to share some books that meet these "standards" I need to get and I'd be glad to check some of them out. I will admit, I do have issues with the structure, grammar, punctuation, etc., with a lot of books, but I truly didn't catch any of this in Minion. But, I was totally caught up in the story, so perhaps I over-looked all you saw because I was focusing on something else. My bad.
Carey, no comment. I typed a response, but I'll move it to another thread or just let it sit awhile. But ummm, back to the thread. Did you read Minion?
That's all for me folks. The discussion has definitely been interesting.
-Tee
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Yasmin H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:42 pm: |
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The Other Anonymous>> There has been a mention of other authors, some of which haven't even written anything that's similar to Minion, we've read about a movie, you name it.
Examples don't have to be the exact same thing to prove a point. The point, Minion is not the only book out there written to be a series.
>>The one person who disliked mentioned their reasons why, but it's like it's all been overlooked and only reasoned that this person is attacking the author personally and not the book. (Is saying an author can't write, something that solely speaks to the personal, yet not include commentary about their book?) But, instead of responding to those comments there are only comebacks about things that are off topic.
What has been discussed that is off topic? And if you'll read the other threads regarding Minion, you see that this thread was a continuation and that there were other posters who disliked the book and kept making references to it being a disappointment because it wasn't like past written books of the same subject.
And if someone thinks Banks is not a good writer then fine, but to make personal attacks on another reader's opinion, reputation, and "standards" is out of line and still immature.
>>Agree with this as well, but it would even better if the same posters calling for such actions would also take heed themselves.
Where did a poster calling for positivity make a remarks stating otherwise? I believe it's the people who don't like Minion who are saying someone has no standards if they happened to like the book. I believe they are the ones making the snide comments and just being ugly.
Lass Word>>I wish these people like Tee and Belinda would stop ROFL and get some standards for technical execution and paragraph structure before they come in here calling a the biggest turkey of the year--one of the best books of the year.
Yes, please make it your last words because if you can't respect someone's opinion then keep your negativity to your self. They have low standards? You tickle me.
Carey>> These mistakenly slighted individual then procede to zealously defend the book and their "right" to like it. As in the case with the discussion of Minion, their defense generally relies more on abstract variables than the point of contention, the quality of writing.
It seems to me that the individuals were not defending their right to like Minion, but were on the defensive against the onlaught of criticism launched at them from those who didn't enjoy it as much. Attacks on reputation and standards have nothing to do with the quality of writing, but has everything to do with making personal digs that are unnecessary.
You all can't even agree to disagree. Who cares who liked the book or didn't like the book. My best read is not your best read so get off it and move on.
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JustTheTruth
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:44 pm: |
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Yeah, Tee I'm the one who's a bookseller and all of St. Martin's stuff sold REAL bad last year. I've spoken to several other store managers who complain of the same thing. Their books didn't have that "zing" ingredient this year. Just dull, dreary re-hash writing for the most part.
Of course, Francis Ray is always great and Solomon Jones is one of my favorites.
I'm not going to make a list, because I'm not the kinda guy that takes time to do that.
I heard from other bookstore owners that Banks was "picked" to write the MINION series and that it was an idea by the editorial board to create the series. Guess they wnted to mimic Kensington's success with their sci fi/horror love stories.
I don't think I'm the only industry person that browses here, Tee. I think most everybody here is in the book industry from what I've seen. Top authors that sign in my store like Terry McMillan and Walter Mosley have told me that they visit these pages reguarly.
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Katrina Merriwether
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:48 pm: |
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I loved MINION. Thought it was pretty entertaining.
My favorite book of the year was "EDEN" by Olympia Vernon.
Just my 2 cents.
**Smile**
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Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:52 pm: |
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Okay JTT, thanks for the follow-up. Enjoy the rest of the weekend, I'm outta here to get my RAW (read/write) on. Work calls...
-Tee |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:55 pm: |
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Katrina, I really enjoyed Eden too.
-Tee |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:56 pm: |
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Tee;
Stop it...Stop it  .
There you go .
back to the thread, have you read Gabriel's Story by David Anthony Durham or The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead?
Hey, I have a personalized autographed copy of L.A. Bank's (Leslie Esdaile) book, Love Notes.
I agree, she's a very nice person.
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The Other Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:01 pm: |
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Yasmin H.,
>>Examples don't have to be the exact same thing to prove a point. The point, Minion is not the only book out there written to be a series.
I don't think anyone on this board claimed that Minion was the only book that is written to be a series. If so, point to that post. Further, the "pro" Minion readers raised the notion of others books as if this has any bearing whatsoever how good or bad Minion may be.
>>What has been discussed that is off topic?
Well, for starters it was you who mentioned a movie, Rice and a host of things. Even about other authors who haven't even written a vampire book. Why all this discussion on other subjects rather than Minion itself?
>>And if someone thinks Banks is not a good writer then fine, but to make personal attacks on another reader's opinion, reputation, and "standards" is out of line and still immature.
Agreed, however there are people who liked the book are making personal attacks on other's people opinions, reputations, etc. But, ironically those who liked the book are only calling out those who disliked the book but selectively and purposely ignoring those who like the book who are doing exactly the same thing. Now isn't rather immature, too?
>>Where did a poster calling for positivity make a remarks stating otherwise? I believe it's the people who don't like Minion who are saying someone has no standards if they happened to like the book. I believe they are the ones making the snide comments and just being ugly.
Try re-reading some of your own comments starting with calling other books crappy. And, I guess you're just selectively ignored all the personal mud slinging and negativity by the "pro" Minion posters. The "pro" Minion readers are making snide comments and being ugly too. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:24 pm: |
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Yasmin said: Who cares who liked the book or didn't like the book.
I have to ask, why would you even comment whether you like or dislike a book, if you think that no one cares? Or why comment on whether someone else liked or dislike a book, if you don't care? |
Belinda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 09:00 pm: |
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Can't we all as lovers of literature get along and agree to disagree? This discussion has turned into a circus. I'm done... |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 12:53 am: |
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carey: your 1/3/04 post sounds very much like several of mine. i'm glad you're restated this point of contention, because it resurfaces persistently, like a cold in the winter. We should try to be more attentive to these things...but let me stop, for i don't want to be accused of being "academic" again....lmao! |
akaivyleaf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 12:22 pm: |
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Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but I don't check these boards daiy but that is part of my new years resolution to do better. As to why I didn't care for Minion its simple - I struggled through the entire book waiting for the preface to tie in with the rest of the book. I did read the entire book, I don't make comment until I'm finished with the book but it was a struggle for me to get there because my mind wanted to have things in a certain order and I wasn't getting it that way so I was conflicted.
I like vampire, horror etc and I like the way L.A. Banks writes. I'm not criticising her writing abilities as much as I am suspect to my own way of thinking and with Minion I couldn't get out of my box and jump into a new box. I want to read THE AWAKENING because I feel that Minion did a good job of setting up the characters. Now I thought there were too many characters to keep straight but I liked the diversity of them.
I liked the coming of age tale but I couldn't get into the rest of it and believe me I tried. I also didn't get the spiritual connection which is what so many people see.
To go back to my published review of Minion I did write:
The best part? This is a series. Minion starts out a little slow- in fact I would highly recommend a departure from the norm, and read the prologue last. It detracted from the story for me as I was reading to find out how it interacted with the rest of book. I admit to searching for the connection so much that I lost my way in the book. When I finally put that thought out of my mind the book blossomed. A lot of the groundwork has been laid in Minion to make this series pop. Great background information, character development and a lot of research are evident. The series is bound to be spellbinding and I can’t wait for book two. I’m also impressed that L.A. Banks is able to wear a different literary hat, this is about as far away from the romance continuum as a writer can get but she’s done a fantastic job of showcasing her literary abilities.
Again, just my opinion and you asked that I type it here. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 08:28 pm: |
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Hello Yukio
Yeah Yukio, I was feeling you when you have tried on several occassions to "rope In" the discussions and were consequently called a few names for doing so. It's so frustrating when the issue starts branching out like an octopus. To divert, flip, or change the issue may be a good debate tecnic when one is losing ground but if the goal is a better understanding of the topic or issue on the table it only serves to confuses matters. But there in lies the problem. Many are not looking to find answers, solutions or a better understanding of the issue at hand, they merely wish to argue and "win" at any cost. So from this perspective confusion, misquotes, dodging questions, wandering off the issue and the like are the tools most suitable. Another tecnic used by those that can not support their opinions or position is crying. Oh yeah, the woe-is-me why y'all pickin' on po' ol'me tecnic. Another is one I call pop goes the weasel. That's when one person starts posting/popping up under several different names to give the appearance that many others support their view and then therefore it must be right.......wwwrrroong. Yukio, I like a good debate, but when a person states an opinion that differs from mine and I consequently ask them the reasons behind their position and they then proceed to use the aforementioned rhetoric or gets upset, it takes the fun out of it. This is a discussion board isn't it. Argument can be fun, it's an healthy exchange of views involving two or more people. Heck, the word argument is derived from the latin verb "arguere"...."to make clear" so an argument in and of itself is not a bad thing. It's sometimes the people that's doing the arguing that gets ugly. In short, I've felt your frustrations and some people like to play fair and others don't......I think
Carey |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 11:29 pm: |
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akaivyleaf you mention a published review, what is the deal on that? Did you right a review as one can do at the large book sites or are you a reviewer? |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 01:05 am: |
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Well, Carey, if yours or anyone else's arguments have validity, they will stand up no matter how many diversionary techniques you think people are using in order to make you substantiate your point. There are people who endeavor to win an argument that they are passionate about, and then there are people who pout and makes excuses when they can't convince others that they are right. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 02:13 am: |
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Carey...right, right, right...
Cynique:
you listed (1) win because of passion anf (2) pout and make excuses, but what about "arguere"..."to make clear"? Ironically, you're more optimistic than me in this case, for i don't think Carey's arguments will hold up although they have validity.... |
akaivyleaf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:53 am: |
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I am a reviewer, and I write and publish reviews to my site. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
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Yukio, when an argument invokes passion on the part of an advocate for a certain issue, then the logic required to make it "clear" takes a back seat. Does anybody ever win an argument - except in their own mind? My point to Carey was that when you complain about how others debate, be sure to examine your motivation in doing this. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 02:47 pm: |
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Cynique
Re: your post 1:05am, excuse me, what are you talking about? Yeah people pout and make excuses, I said that....and? Yeah, it's nice to have passion for the subject you are discussing ...okay..and?
You wrote: "diversionary techniques you think people are using in order to make you substantiate your point"
What?! Substantiate my point??? I don't know what you are reffering to. How does a person make me substantiate my point by being evasive, using misquotes or/and wandering off the issue?
You Wrote Yukio, when an argument invokes passion on the part of an advocate for a certain issue, then the logic required to make it "clear" takes a back seat.
That's simply not true!
To have passion for an issue/subject is in many cases a must. You've implied that "passion" some how clouds the minds, which is far from the thruth. Now, If one is dogmatic on a subject THEN logic might go out the window.
You wrote: Does anybody ever win an argument - except in their own mind?
Sure they do. Again, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the word arguement as it has been applied in this issue. People argue to convince, to negotiate, and to persuade (TO MAKE CLEAR). So you bet your bottom dollar if my attorney is arguing my case I hope he argues with passion in a convincing way and wins the minds of the judge or jury.
Look Cynique, I don't know what your position is, I've examined my motive for my post/statements ( it wasn't a complaint) and I'm clear and kool with them.
I believe I know what's behind your posts but hey do we really wnat to go there. Remember, I've been here long enough to remember when your name wasn't Cynique.......so please |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:41 pm: |
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Gee, Carey, did you wander off the subject or what? But since you are into the etymology of the word "argument", I would suggest that what is done on this board is more about bickering. Issues rarely get resolved. (And don't overlook the fact that no matter how passionate your lawyer argues your case, he may lose it if it doesn't ring true.) Anyway, I figured that since you felt the need to go into great detail categorizing for Yukio the type of tactics people on this board resort to when "arguing", I would take the liberty of responding to your remarks. And, yes, my screen name has changed. I don't know what that proves. I'm still the same person. You more than anyone else should know that. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:38 pm: |
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True re: Lawyer
You know, that is what we frequently do, bicker, oh well.
Yeah, I did wander a little didn't I (lol).
Okay, I still love ya. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:51 pm: |
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Thanks, Carey, for making it easier for me to keep my new year's resolution to be less confrontational. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:41 pm: |
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Good ole Carey:
Ya back in the saddle agin! |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:46 pm: |
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Not so fast, Cynique. You still got ol' ABM lurkin' around to blow a gustah wind up yer skirt ever' now-n-again. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:36 pm: |
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Carey and Cynique:
"Yukio, when an argument invokes passion on the part of an advocate for a certain issue, then the logic required to make it "clear" takes a back seat. "
Well Cynique, this is obviously your opinion. I believe, however, that passion doesn't necessary preclude logic; nor is logic necessarily sufficient to argue, or should i say clarify, a position. I believe ABM, i think, suggested before that my comments were "removed" and that my positions were "academic" (perhaps it was Chris Hayden). Not sure if these characterizations are correct, but passion is always part of my position.
"Does anybody ever win an argument - except in their own mind? My point to Carey was that when you complain about how others debate, be sure to examine your motivation in doing this."
Let me respond to the last statement first, for you and I have done this before. Well, i've been quite activism, perhaps too much, in attempting to cultivate a "cordial" or should i say less "combative" discourse, here. Your opinion(Chris hayden has done so similarly) was that in making those comments, i was indeed policing the discussion. My opinion of my behavior was that i was trying to assist or shape but not control discourse so that it was more productive. With that said, let me respond to the rest of the above quote.
Now, I have never been interesting in winning an argument...that is a debate, not a discussion. Both involve arguments, but they serve different functions. I'm interesting in engaging folk, as i have said before. Indeed others are interested in bicking, and perhaps this is how you categorize me....i don't know. Nevertheless, those of are who are interesting in engaging eachother and learning from another seek the same treatment as we give....this is where i'm coming from. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:37 pm: |
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Yukio:
You remembered!!! (sigh) |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:43 pm: |
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Ok, Yukio, I won't belabor the point. Be good, ABM. The only way you gonna get under my skirt is if you dress up like Aragorn. sigh. |
Mike E
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:59 pm: |
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I tried to read this book after seeing it advertised on this site, but what I read was not very interesting nor very good. After reading the heated debate on this book ,I'm considering going back & giving it another try. |
Book Father
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:19 pm: |
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Mike, you were right the first time.
You're a writer ol boy? You know drivel when you see it.
Minion stunk. Even for commercial fiction, it was the bottom of the barrel.
Now I admitt...I like very little commercial fiction. It has to be GOOD formula if it's formula.
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ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 05:01 am: |
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Cynique,
"Lord Aragorn indeed be borne of champion stock, Milady.
But it tis now I who doth wield the re-forged fabled "Sword" of Elendil, the felled King of Gondor and the Father of Prince Isildur, who with his Sire's broken blade did CUT the Ring of Power from the Dark Lord Sauron's fiery grasp.
Does not what I now brandish from my good right hand make ME worthy of thine 'grace'?"
HAHAHA!
This LOTR phenomenon is amazing. I don't recall having seen so many Black women (my wife included) swoon over white men like Viggo Mortenson=Aragorn and Legolas=Orlando Bloom since Sean Connery. (BTW: Doesn't "Orlando Bloom" sound like a brothah's name?)
Yukio,
I would agree that you can (as can I) be a bit academic (& didactic). And although I don't find those to necessarily be undesirable traits, I am not sure that it was I who has previously referred to you as such. I think I'll toss that hot potato over to Chris. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 06:54 am: |
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Cynique, just a clarification no beef....mad cow, gotta be careful!
ABM: I don't know about the didactic characterization.....i think it was Chris, but i remember you making a similar references, months ago....nevertheless, sorry if i misrepresented you... |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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Yes, ABM, it just goes to show that having a commanding presence that oozes with sensuality knows no color line. The thing about the half-Danish Viggo Mortensen is that he is truly Aragorn's alter-ego. And from what I've read about him, I relate very much to his politics and his philosophy of life. I could go on and on but I won't. Obviously this is not the place for it. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:18 pm: |
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Yukio,
I have a reviewed Thumper's Corner's archives and you are correct, I have made similar commentary about you. Here is the FULL text in "Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy » Bakari Kitwana's book THE HIP HOP GENERATION" of what I said:
{{"ABM
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 12:29 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yukio,
I hope that your don't misconscrue what follows to be a personal attack of you, because is not in ANY WAY intended to serve as such. It is all just my opinion.
You are obviously a very well-educated person. I almost always find what you say to be persuasively informative. But it would be nice if you would on occasion, without equivocation, directly state where you personally stand on an issue. Because I think the problem you appear to often endure here is that you come off as being an aloof academic who is more interested in coolly assessing and reciting the rote results of studied behavior and phenomena than you are in empathetically sharing how what you have learned and experiences influences who & what you are.
But, to be fair: I ask if other posters disagree with or resent my comments about Yukio, please share your views. If you, however, agree with me, I would appreciate your abstaining from posting as I fear such might infortunately denigrate into anti-Yukio commentary."}}
Then, of course, other commentary ensued from there.
Yukio (and EVERYBODY ELSE), I don't think there's any point to refrying old beans. But I am sorry if this or anything else that I have posted bothered you.
And Chris I guess you can toss that 'potato' back at me if you like. hahaha!
BTW: Though I assume you already know the definition, per my Webster's Dictionary "didactic" means something that is "designed or intended to teach", which is consistent with what I previously meant to convey. |
Red
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 12:48 pm: |
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Cynique...are you aware that Viggo Mortenson's girlfriend in real life is the very beautiful BLACK actress Josie D'Arby? He's been escorting her to premieres and parties for months (and basically living together)--but media somehow doesn't ever highlight their relationship..as they would if a black man was with a white woman.
Josie looks like Lauryn Hill to me. STunning.
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ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:45 pm: |
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Cynique,
Yeah, from what little I have gathered, the 'waters' of your "Precious" Viggo run pretty 'deep'. But now that he's a STAR, I hope his intellect don't get him in a fix in the completely faux, vacuous world that is Tinsel Town.
You know, as my wife and I were recently watching the DVD of "Two Towers" with another married couple, I observed how adoringly our women were spying this Aragorn 'cat'. So finally, figuring to straightnin' out 'doze' chicks, I asked (1/2 jokingly), "Boy! Yawl really like him, don't you?" To my and the other husband chagrin, they gleefully exclaimed, "We sure do!" And they kinda rolled their neck when they spoke. (Note-2-self: Ditch the LOTR DVD's, pronto!)
But hey, I guess any dude who can lay the mack down to an immortal 'Elf' must have SERIOUS game. HEHEHE!
And to think that Director Peter Jackson had originally cast a post-pubescent wannabe "boy band" type as Aragorn.
Red,
Uh oh! That interesting bit of gossip about her beloved Viggo is likely to make Cynique's heart pop clear from outtah her chest.
Heck! I 'speck if dude marries D'Arby, yawl wanna make him the Essence Magazine 'Black' Man of the Year. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:49 pm: |
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ABM: Ok. Well, i remembered this exchange, and i never thought that it was a personal attack. So no, it didn't bother me; i was just clarifying what i thought seemed to be a pattern of comments that misrepresented my motivations and intent in these dialogues. Again, it was done for clarification purposes, not to "refry old beans." These sayings you have are amusing....also, if i'm didactic, it certainly is not purposeful..... |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 10:46 pm: |
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The last statement I heard Josie D'Arby make about their relationship was that she wasn't naive enough to think that a movie star like Viggo would be interested in a permanent relationship. One of his former co-stars says Viggo is a loner and a free spirit who always returns to his Muse and moves on in his relationships. Whatever. I've been a fan of his for a while now. He was Gwyneth Paltrow's lover in "The Perfect Murder" and Diane Lane's seducer in "A Walk on the Moon." He was also the master chief who kicked Demi Moore's ass in G.I. Jane. He was married to punk singer Xene but I don't think he has ever harbored any serious aspirations to break into the music business because he admits he can't sing, although I think he did do a couple of voice overs on some jazz cuts and also on a session with rock star Bucket Head. This hottie is of Scandinavian descent and these men are notorious for liking black women. So who knows... Josie D'Arby looks OK but she has the strangest looking hands I've ever seen. They look like phalanges instead of fingers. Meoooow. As you know Viggo wasn't Peter Jackson's first choice for the role of Aragorn but Jackson replaced the original actor because he wanted someone more seasoned for the role. Viggo decided to accept the offer because his son had read LOTR and was a fan of Aragorn. Nuff said???? |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:31 pm: |
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Hello All,
I hope you all don't mind if I get back to Minion do you? *eyebrow raised* Gee thanks, you're too kind.
I don't know where on these two thread that I read where someone had the nerve to say that those who like other vampire books shouldn't read Minion. And that those who don't typically read vampire novels would love Minion. Don't try to pinpoint me on this one, as you all can see this Minion discussion has gotten quite deep (and for the life of me, I can't figure out why). Back to my point, about who should like Minion and who shouldn't, there's an insult to somebody's intelligence and I can't figure out to who. I'm leaning towards the ones who loved it is the ones being insulted. I have to disagree with those who believe our dislike of the book has to do with the structure. There wasn't one that I was able to detect. Sorry, but any installment in a series should be able to stand on its own. If it can not then all of the parts should be one big book. It still boils down to whether the writing is good or not, or if the reader finds it interesting or not in order to tackle it. Stephen King has no problem getting people to read 1000+ pages of a novel. My Gawd, if someone told me to read 1000+ pages of Minion, I would have to come out swinging. No baby, hmmm mmmm mmmm, we gonna have to fight. I'm sorry, but its ON! Jez-us B A Fence! You all know that in my opinion, Minion sucks swampwater. Hey, if you like it, that's on you, but don't get ticked off at the rest of us. We not slamming you personally, nor are we slamming the author. But, it is what it is. And it ain't no need trying to tell me that a sloppy joe is the same as a filet mignon. |
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