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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 09:52 pm: | 
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Hello All,
If you have a copy of Billie Holiday's Lady In Satin album, get it and play the last song, End of a Love Affair. If you don't have it, for the sake of the moment, pretend that you do.
Well, I'm feeling like Billie sounds singing that song. My long lasting love for Dickey's books have come to an end. The Other Woman had moments, but overall, I was disappointed with it. I wasn't moved. OK, Crystal, let's hear it. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 10:26 am: |
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What didn't you like about this book? And is your disappointment due to your enjoyment of previous books that you feel were done much better than The Other Woman? Thanks for the reply.
The thing about Eric is he's very talented. He's put out some awesome work, so it affects the expectations of what you believe he can achieve. That's how I feel anyway. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 10:54 am: |
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All:
I always felt with Dickey's books that there was something missing--they were nice but ultimately empty. Nothing ever stuck with me (except the feeling--why did I read that?)
He's doing a grand, and if he listened to me he would probably starve to death. But I think this is going to catch up with him some day. |
Crystal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:39 pm: |
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Holla Back Thumper!
OK, here’s the thing. The boy's got potential. If he ever slows his cute little butt down and concentrate and put in some quality time I think he’ll have something. Put a little more real flesh on the characters and PLEASE stop describing every street corner and landmark. Describe how the ocean breeze feels, not tell me what street it’s going down.
He’s putting them out pretty fast now and hopefully he’s making money. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! I frequent another board that has a majority of younger black women. They LOVE this guy. I was the lone voice of dissent in the recent post about this book. Most of those young women are in college so I guess this fits the bill for a quick read after finals or something.
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sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 01:54 pm: |
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Okay, maybe it wasn't his best work, but he did a darn good job of describing the situation at hand, of course some of the characters lacked depth, ie..the artistic husband, the main characters husband, but oh especially, the cheating wife..who was she...one minute I saw her as a mature woman involved in an adulterous affair, writing these lovely, straight to the poitn love letters and next she acts like a pouty mouth teenager...other than that, it was good!
Not as good as his last one though, which also happens to be my favorite, Thieves Paradise. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:13 pm: |
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I think for the kind of writing and stories Eric does, he does it well. I get perturbed when people think you HAVE to write like Richard Wright or James Baldwin, when in actuality you don't because there's only one RW and one JB. So although he may not write great literary fiction, it's fine. He doesn't have to. He does well doing the fast-paced, snappy dialogue, hip, sexy characters type of thing. But you do wonder if he can do something different, with more depth, because you feel he has the potential. I'm waiting to exhale.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:52 pm: |
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NeeCee:
Richard Wright or James Baldwin? Eric ain't even up to Terry McMillain or Walter Moseley. He ain't even Vibe Magazine.
What level is he at? Somebody help me! |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 02:55 pm: |
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Gosh is he THAT bad? LOL. I do think Terry McMillan has an edge. Her books are more character-driven, theme-oriented, thought-provoking (maybe because she has an MFA)? Her releases cause what I consider a phenomenon (don't ask).
But I didn't think he was that bad, Chris Hayden. Okay, he definitely isn't the worst, and he has potential to be greater, don't you think? |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:03 pm: |
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Chris,
I feel similarly to you about Dickey. But one thing you've gotta give to him: He's at the moneymaking "level". |
sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:13 pm: |
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Well, I can name a number of writers that EJD is better than, a whole lot better and they making dough too!
Omar Tyree
E Lynn Harris
Kimberla Lawson Roby
Shannon Holmes
oh theres more, lots more...I can say this, his books are entertaining, and I have never had to put one down, because I couldn't finish it. This may be a question of subject matter vs rather the brother can write, and hands down the brother can write.
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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:19 pm: |
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He's not an amateur. He does study his craft, takes classes, tries different techniques. He's just not literary. I say that there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone lives by their own standard and do what makes them happiest. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:32 pm: |
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Thanks, sisgal, for putting your finger on why EJD's books don't hold my interest.Eureka! It has hit me. It's the subject matter.It's not fresh; he just reinvents the same old characters and plots, and adds a generous helping of steamy sex. Admittedly it's a formula that works. But not for me. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:50 pm: |
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Neecee:
I think the frustrating thing about him is that, at least as far as I can see, he is NOT a bad writer. That he has taken the path of least resistance and has given the people what they want--not that this is bad, but that he has decided to remove any bite, analysis, special wit--a lot of people assume that those who don't like him want more ghetto blacks, more down and out folks, like that.
That isn't my problem. But even buppies get seriously ill, go crazy, commit crimes, get into trouble betray themselves have crises of conscience--'leastwise being people I think they do. It seems that his characters all have these relationships that are mildly troubling maybe, a sort of dilemma like that might disturb a high school or college student, but not an adult.
I mean, Gone With the Wind (which I hate) was about Southern Aristocrats, but they had the Civil War drop on them (maybe he should put some of his characters into the middle of 9/11). Macbeth was about royalty, but Shakespeare through murder and scheming into it.
Thanks Sisgal for listing the others in his class. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 03:58 pm: |
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Chris:
I understand your point, but in general, can't a writer only write about the things that come to them to write? If 9/11 themes don't enter his mind, how on earth can he write about it?
I think the other writers fit that bill, and it doesn't mean everyone will be obligated to cover social themes. All writing exists for different purposes. His books seem to be for entertainment, light reading, laughs. Nothing deep or heavy yet still highly readable.
Like, what if you write about certain topics, but people say, "Hey Chris, write about the 60's, Jim Crow Laws, American Idol, gang banging." You can only write what is in your heart, whether folks understand it or not.
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Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 04:55 pm: |
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NeeCee....I agree with Chris.
A good writer (writing what's in his heart) could get "imaginative" for once...and take those seedy characters and hot sex...and place it in the foreground of the civil rights era..
Remember the film, "The Way We Were"...which dealt with McArthyism and communism? Most remember it as a love story.
Well, why can't blacks have an EPIC love story like that? And why hasn't Dickey cared enough about his legion of fans...to come up with a new upshot?
I myself was asked to write a short story about the 9-11 event for the upcoming book "Politically Inspired" (Oct. 8th)....so I took a story that was in my heart....that of a black girl in Brooklyn having an unexpected love affair with an Arab Muslim immigrant from Amman (a man who thinks her hairstyle is so bizzare and her coloring so out of place that...she must be God--"The One You Meet Everywhere")...and I began the story AFTER...AFTER...the Arab boy was blown up in the World Trade Center so that the girl's "intonation" of him was front and center.
The setting wasn't my idea...but it's turned out, I think, to be one of the most poignant and fluid pieces that I've ever written, because I was challenged to take my own "heart"...and then THINK combine the editor's theme with my own story about why people feel the passions they feel.
Passion makes us love a man...or blow up a building...and perhaps even a lack of it can drive lonely people to hide behind a church.
I think Dickey writes for the money (which is not a crime)...but it's evident to me that he's being lazy and that he's a far more talented writer than his books would let on. He just needs to go away for 3 years, stop living the high life, and for the very first time....do JUSTICE...to his heart.
Otherwise, his audience will have a surprise for him one day.
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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:06 pm: |
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I've interviewed Eric, and this man writes what he wants to write, what he likes to read, pure and simple. What more can one do?
Maybe you guys are just not in his target audience. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:07 pm: |
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Good discussion! While I'm not necessarily a Dickey fan, I've read several of his books and thought they were okay. I haven't read his last two, but I really enjoyed Between Lovers...except for the ending. I thought it was weak and a bit predictable (and didn't really make sense to me--it didn't seem to stay true to the characters).
I don't think I've heard hardly any negative press about the new one, so I will be reading it next week for one of my groups. :-)
-Tee |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:13 pm: |
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What disappoints me about Dickey, Harris, Tyree is that they are basically doing the same thing that they have done for about 10 years. I think what Chris, Kola, Cynique and others like us are ALL hoping for is an upward arc or a progression of their work.
Take Dickey, for instance. I too think that he has some writing skills and could probably write quality literary works that would still sell well. But he's written 7 - 10 books now. And book 10 should be - but likely is not - A LOT better than book 2. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:16 pm: |
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ABM...you're marvelous.
With one sentence you summed up what we were all trying to say:
"And book 10 should be - but likely is not - A LOT better than book 2."
I love the way you talk, daddy.
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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:22 pm: |
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I agree with that ABM. It is frustrating when a veteran writer doesn't seem to improve their writing ability. That is something that's expected but rarely done. The writer might become comfortable or afraid to mess with their reading audience. I really don't know, but yes, their 10th book should be better than the 2nd. But then again, once you become aware of an audience your writing is affected. When you do your first book or second and you don't have an audience yet, there's a freedom that exists that does not exist later on. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:24 pm: |
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Awh shucks, Kola. Dat's nuthin'! You should see me dance. HAHAHA!!! |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:32 pm: |
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I agree NeeCee. But it is at that stage where true personal and professional integrity is suppose to kick in.
There comes a time where every successful artist must decide whether he or she is going to be either a thoughtful and provocative leader and seer for her or his fans...or their servile (though wealthy) whore. |
InPrint
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:41 pm: |
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For the record, Dickey has said that he does want to break out of form, but that his publisher wants him to keep doing the same basic things. He is making a ton of bank (his car is insane), and I think he does plan to keep doing so until this era dries up, then try to move on to more serious work.
Thing is, after more than a decade of reinforcing bad, lazy writing habits, it will be a miracle if he can. |
Casey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 05:57 pm: |
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I had never read any of EJD's books and I found The Other Woman a goood entertaining read. I must say though that EJD takes infidelity to another level in my opinion. The character David lawrence was not only vengeful, but downright after the jugular! In reading the book I was not looking for anything deeply philosophical, I was looking for a quick fiction read and that's my .02 worth. |
Red
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 06:42 pm: |
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I must admit that I am a very big fan of EDJ. I have all of his books and while "The Other Woman" may not have been his best (I believe Cheaters was), the book was very interesting.
In my opinion, the fall comes when he tries to tie in an "issue" that has grabbed his attention that he tries to force on his readers. In this book it was Ethiopian issue. I felt that it didn't have a place in the book and for that reason, I found myself skimming over those parts.
As EDJ gets older and he gains a different age range (in his readers), he does try to change it up. Thieves' Paradise was a change and so was Between Lovers (which I hated but thats a different subject). We must also realize that some writers like to stick with what made them their first "two dollars" and we may not want to admit it but, we love scandal, smut, cheating, sex and lies (as long as it don't include us directly).
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Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 06:55 pm: |
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You know...ABM
I just hit me that someday...when my books come out...no one HERE will be able to enjoy them, because they know me so well.
Certainly my artistry and imaginative powers are never on full display here at the boards...I just chit chat as myself...but the shades of my personality and my political views have been so strongly expressed, that there won't a "sense of wonder" for anyone to read my fiction.
That's a downer.
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 07:27 pm: |
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ALL:
Interesting comments!(i agree with inprint and NeeCee) I read three of his novels, or is it four, and none of them are memorable, though i did enjoy them! As has been said, he is not doing "literary" fiction and has an audience, which is great(also, most folk don't read literary fiction, so he is insured a readership!).
If he did attempt to be "literary"(whatever that means), he could lose his fan base and he may not produce good literary fiction(whatever good means..)!
I wish is the best! Though, i'll only buy his books in paper back, if i buy them at all! |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 12:31 am: |
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Hello All,
I'm surprised by the response so quick to the this post. *big smile*
Let me say up front, for those of you who haven't been around long, the veterans can bear witness, EJD has probably been the only author that I've been crazy about from his first book to the present. My admiration for his books, his talent, has been unwavering. He is an awesome author...who just happen to have made a misstep with The Other Woman.
I have to defend Dickey. He had made a steady progression of in his writing style since Sister, Sister to Thieves Paradise. I still stand by my assessment of Thieves Paradise, not only was it one of the best books of the year last year, it is the best book he had written, to date. It was more than an attempt at writing literary, it was GOOD LITERARY FICTION! I knew he could do it and he did. But, I suspect that it didn't get the kind of reception that his previous books did and that is a shame!
And although many folks found Between Lovers to x-rated, I still maintain that the point was not the sex. There's depth and complexity to those characters. The take and spin that he did with Between Lovers and how it was inspired after Nabokov's Lolita was damn good! It is after reading these two fine books that marked the true potential of Dickey as an author. The Other Woman was a big step back!
Not just in the relationship genre, even those books Sister Sister, Cheaters, Milk In My Coffee, etc, he was writing a cut above the grade. Terry McMillan should write Dickey a check every month, for every time he published a book, critics and journalists were calling him the "male Terry McMillan". I still don't know why that was because he is a better writer than McMillan. Between Lovers and Theives Paradise proves this notion. The Other Woman belongs to the era when he was writing Liars and Cheaters.
I didn't like The Other Woman, but he's still my boy.
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Red
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 02:21 am: |
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Well Thumper I will have to agree that Thieves' Paradise was a good book. When I first started reading it, I was looking for the usual scandal and cheating that Dickey is known for. When I didn't find it, I was ready to return the book until I realized I really wanted to know what was going to happen to Scamz and Dante.
As for Between Lovers, my reasoning for not liking it had nothing to do with it being x-rated (It wasn't to me), I just found (in my opinion) the book to be "dry", poorly written with shallow weak characters.
But in the end EDJ is still one of my favorites. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 06:32 am: |
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Thumper:
I haven't read Thieves' Paradise; tried to, but couldn't finish. So, to me, Between Lovers is Eric's finest book. The writing was awesome; it seems you could tell he put a lot of hard work into that book (just like Milk In My Coffee); they had that something extra. With The Other Woman (this is gonna sound silly), but I didn't like the two cheating characters' screen names. If a man a woman were having an affair, unless they were incredibly stupid, they wouldn't use their real names, so that part didn't jibe with me. I tend to prefer the old books as opposed to the newer ones, and I'd select Between Lovers, Cheaters, Milk in My Coffee, and Sister, Sister among the best. I still think Terry has an edge over him though; it's more exciting when her books come out. I guess because she paces them in way that makes you eager to read, instead of putting out a book every year. |
dwillautho@aol.com
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 02:56 am: |
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I just want to say that I am in most agreement with NeeCee. It seems the same people bring in the "literary vs "moneymaking" debate and view their opinions as gospel. Fine, we are all entitled to our opinions.
The Other Woman, and this is my opinion, is perhaps his greatest works next to Between Lovers. I have been impressed with his last three books, BL, Thieves Paradise, and TOW after his past few books, I thought were okay, not great but more falling into the category of being moneymaking books for the masses. With BL and the TOW, there is literary merit but sometimes we cannot see the forest for the trees. We are looking for some deep dark nameless literary merit ala Morrison. It ain't like that. With BL and TOW, EJD took writing and themes to another level. Both got into the depths of the fraility of the human spirit. TP talked about street, the con game without going ghetto. TOW will most likely be on my list of top 10 favorites for 2003 and I read a diverse literature including "literary". This was great writing and I say to the naysayers, people write about what they want to write and it doesn't mean a writer is lazy, a bad writer, politically incorrect, not concerned about black issues if he/she does not write what you think should be written. We have all kinds of stories. You write yours.
And to use a phrase from one of my on-line sisters. That's all I have to say about that.
Cocowriter |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:06 pm: |
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Well said Cocowriter. We do have all kinds of stories. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:18 pm: |
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There is an ongoing debate about this subject, and I doubt that anyone has ever converted anyone else to their point of view. So what it all boils down to is that, for whatever reason, you either like a book, or you don't like it. There's no accounting for taste. |
Yasmin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:21 pm: |
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Thanks Cocowriter for posting your views and doing it in such a way that it wasn't a turnoff. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
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If anyone's viewpoints are a turn-off, no one is forcing you to read them. |
Crystal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 01:57 pm: |
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"Great writing" Cocowriter? Well, if I may borrow from Kola in an earlier post - "I just don't appreciate his art." |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 02:11 pm: |
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WhEw! This iz ser-uz! Let that man do his thing....if his audience complains, he'll probably change. If not, why should he? If he likes and enjoys what he produces, then he peace be on to him! |
Cmack
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 03:41 pm: |
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Wow, after reading all the posts, I'm afraid to say that I enjoyed the book!!!!! I look forward to his next. Peace. |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 12:01 am: |
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Cmack:
Who cares what other folk think! What counts is what you think! |
Brian
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 03:22 pm: |
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I haven't read The Other Woman yet but, after reading through the posts, I'm definitely curious to see how good/bad it is! LOL
NeeCee, you had some very interesting points and I enjoyed reading them and I agreed with them. |
Sarai
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:03 pm: |
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I have to agree with NeeCee. I could not read Thieves paradise at all. If the book was any good, it had a terrible beginning. |
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