Author |
Message |
Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 766 Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:52 am: |
|
From: "Nnedimma" Date: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm Subject: essay on Stephen King's black characters He everyone, Just wanted to pass this on. I write a critical essay for Strange Horizons called Stephen King's Super-Duper Magical Negroes. It’s at http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml I originally wanted to specifically write about Susannah Dean in King’s Dark Tower series, but I’m satisfied with what I ended up doing. Let me know what you think.
|
Lambd "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Lambd
Post Number: 703 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:12 pm: |
|
Good point, Hayden. I have been aware of the 'magical negro' in King's writing for a long while, now. I never thought anything of it really except that they are always a welcome addition to the story. Of course these negros are stereotypical, but in this way gave some credibility to these fantastic tales. I really don't know why. I only know that I enjoyed all of those books when I read them. Still the 'magical negro' always seemed to stand out. Maybe that's why King made them black. So that they would stand out from the rest of the characters. |
Steve_s Newbie Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
|
Chris, I read another article about this some time ago. John Coffey in the Green Mile absorbs the pain of whites and absolves them of their sins, I think he even forgives those who execute him for a crime he didn't commit. Of course it's all tied up with absolving whites of genetic complicity for slavery. Ralph Ellison famously compared all of American culture to a "Negro giant trussed up like Gulliver" on the ground. Haven't seen a lot of the movies, but some other examples given were: Will Smith, who, as you stated, helps the white Matt Damon character get his swing together (literally), Shaq in Shazam who grants a white boy three wishes, Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost who helps the lovers reunite, Morgan Freeman as God who walks on water in Bruce the Almighty (I think it's called?), and Queen Latifah in some Steve Martin movie who is apparently on a supernatural mission (? didn't see it) to help whitie loosen up. Any whites in the Preacher's Wife, can't remember? I agree that that's the defining precondition though, or whatever you call it. I guess I might disagree with the author about the Scatman Crouthers character, Dick Halloran, in The Shining because the white boy "shines" too, and the Jack Nicholson character and others (like my favorite, O'Grady the valet: "You have always been the caretaker, Mr. Torrance.") seem to inhabit a parallel world themselves. This might apply to Ghost as well because the crazy ghost who haunts the subway helps the Patrick Swayze character too. I think it's a subset of Rousseau's the Noble Savage which wasn't exclusively a racial stereotype; blond-haired Billy Budd, the "upright (not 'uptight') barbarian," as well as Tom Sawyer in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn are examples of white Noble Savages. Fortress of Solitude by Jonathan Lethem has a comic book superhero theme (or whatever the term is), and a flying homeless man gives the white kid a magic ring which allows him to fly. He then gives it to his black friend. It's right out of Norman Mailer's "Advertisements for Myself," the 1956 essay called "The White Negro," meaning the white hipster: "If marijuana was the wedding ring, the child was the language of Hip, for its argot gave expression to abstract states of feeling that all could share, at least all who were Hip. And in this wedding of the white and the black it was the Negro who brought the cultural dowry." (Mailer) In Lethem's novel it's cocaine and not marijuana and the wedding ring is literal. Black writers whose commentary on Mailer's piece I've read are: Sterling A. Brown, James Baldwin, Ishmael Reed, Nelson George, Eldridge Cleaver, et al. Whether one likes Lethem's novel or not (I didn't, although it's "well-written"), it might be useful for certain people, who, as Cornel West says, need to "blues moisturize" or "saturate." They're both Noble Savage pieces though, the black friend in Solitude who ends up in prison reveals that all along he had been protecting the white gentry in the black neighborhood (like Gunga Din, the Bengali Noble Savage), so he's a kind of Magical Negro as well. But the white friend, Arthur Lomb (that vision thing, Bausch and Lomb, or sacrificial "Lomb"?) is also a Noble Savage. Also, the white people gentrifying the black neighborhood (for various reasons), are a little like Gaugin in Tahiti, which is a Noble Savage thing which also didn't work out, although not black. Don't ask me. I'll try to find that article and think of some better examples. |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1113 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:02 pm: |
|
Doesn't this bullcrap make anyone angry that the socalled "Magical Negro" assumes that unless a black man/woman possesses some super human something or has some other unnatural occurence happen, that it is unlikely that a black could, would or should ever be smarter that a white?????? DAMN! I GET SO SICK OF THIS TYPE ISH!!!! subliminal and otherwise! Why do we accept this shit?!!! |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1753 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:35 pm: |
|
Spike Lee also made this observation a while back, about Stephen King's penchant for endowing black characters with mystical powers. Maybe this was King's patronizing way of compensating for the bucked-eyed, shaking in their boots negro buffoons who used to appear in the spooky movies back in the 1940s; those "feet don't fail me now" types who took off running at the least hint of anything scary. BTW, Chris, is "Nnedi Okorafor-Mbachu" your pen name??? Whatever. Great article. Steve, you never cease to amaze me. Always love to read what you have to say. |
Lambd "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Lambd
Post Number: 711 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 05:14 pm: |
|
I guess I am not offended because they are just stories just like anything else. I guess I would be more offended if someone took the Messiah out of Africa and gave him blue eyes and blonde hair. Or if I lived in a country where they forced me to belove that God humped on down here to earth and caused a virgin to have a baby. This same baby would live to be in his thirties, get murdered, come back three days later and two thousand years later people are still killing people because other people don't believe it ever took place. Now if Christ were really a black man, and you read the bible for the first time today, would you consider him one of these 'Super Duper Magical Negroes'? Wouldn't he fit the criteria? Should we be angry about this as well? |
Sisg "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Sisg
Post Number: 121 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
|
Now, I am and have always been a fan of Stephen King's work and have thoroughly enjoyed his inclusion of a black character. A black character was rarely heard of in many horror novels, at least the ones i read, and i liked the fact that they were the wise ones, and often lead. Some of my favorites were the old woman from "The Stand", much like the character of "The Oracle from the Matrix", and "Odessa" in "The Tower Series", as well as the black character, in "It", the black woman in "The Bones" novel, the character in "The Talisman", tell me really, what's wrong with him characterizing his black characters as wise, kind and strong? Are we saying that people like this don't exist? What of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Obama, Nelson Mandela??? and was their, (the characters) suffering, dying etc...for the survival of the white character, or mankind? I guess I just don't get so caught up in dissecting the books I select to read for purely entertainment, and so, this passed me by, plus at the end of the story, I felt good about the book, and about the characters. I always questioned why weren't included in more horror books, sci-fi, etc...as if in the future blacks would not exist, that's the only thing that bothers me about some of my favorite Sci-fi flicks, like "Dune". |
Steve_s Newbie Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:08 pm: |
|
Here's the article I had read. It's only about movies and I can't think of any books of this type. Thank you, Cynique. http://www.blackcommentator.com/49/49_magic.html |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1758 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:59 pm: |
|
I am not overly offended by Stephen King's portrayal of blacks as magical. The worst that can be said about King's tendency is that it harks back to slave days when overtones of superstition and voodoo were present in their forms of worship. |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1116 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 06:57 am: |
|
They are "just stories" but why not have stories where the black person is just a person who happens to in some instances be the wiser person with the best idea on how to resolve the problem, instead of "amazing" "super" or otherwise more than human? See, if blacks were portrayed this way more often by whites who choose to write about blacks, then maybe it would go a ways to debunking, and maybe even abolishing the stereotypical images of us that whites THINK are the norm. Maybe they would really start believing that all people REALLY ARE just people, after all. And maybe whites would lose this NEED to feel superior. |
Lambd "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Lambd
Post Number: 715 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 11:02 am: |
|
Hey woman! I see your point, and I understand how this portrayal of blacks in this way has become the norm almost in these types of stories. I just don't feel that it is offensive because the negroes in these stories are portrayed as unique and supernatural beings. They are not supposed to symbolize all black people. I think people are too quick to get caught up in this hype about how people in literature are portrayed. King has had white drug addicts in alot of his novels, too. Should white people be offended? Does this mean that all white people are junkies? Does King think that all addicts are white? Of course not. So I don't think that making his supernatural helpers black should be taken in this way either. If you see a movie with two Pakistanis which would be the stereotype? The bumbling boob with the towel on his head that drives the cab to the hospital, or the ER intern with the glasses that treats the patient? I don't think anyone should get offended because these people are just characters. As far as white folks feeling superior to everyone else on the planet, that aint gonna stop. They will always have that need no matter what Blacks or anyone else does. If a single black man cured cancer and AIDS, won twenty olympic gold medals, and scored 1600 on the SAT, white folks would find a way to take the credit for the cures, disqualify his gold medals, and conveniently lose his test scores. |
Thumper "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Thumper
Post Number: 304 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 01:02 pm: |
|
Hello All, I have been and continue to be a big fan of King's and frankly, I don't have a problem with any of his black characters in his books. As someone said earlier, for a large number of years King was the only white horror writer, or frankly, white writer period, that had black characters in his books on a regular basis. I am confused by the argument that because King portrayed his black characters as wise and intelligent, he was showing a "real" black person. What a silly thought! A_womon wrote: "They are "just stories" but why not have stories where the black person is just a person who happens to in some instances be the wiser person with the best idea on how to resolve the problem, instead of "amazing" "super" or otherwise more than human?" That's not always the case with King's novels. And by saying such, A_womon, you're letting me know that you haven't read too many of King's novels anyway. For instance the black character in IT (I believe his name was Tim but I could be wrong), did not have any super natural power or anything else. He just happen to be one of a group of boys that went hunting for a killer. Now with the Green Mile, yeah, John Coffey was black, and had super duper powers, but the irony of the whole thing is is that if Jesus did come back, as a black man, the so called white American Christians wouldn't recognize him. They would not know what they had and would have killed him off because whether they; or any black repblican/conservative, believe it or not, racism is deeply woven into the American fabric. I don't believe the book or the movie would have been as successful if the John Coffey character was white. A_womon wrote: "See, if blacks were portrayed this way more often by whites who choose to write about blacks, then maybe it would go a ways to debunking, and maybe even abolishing the stereotypical images of us that whites THINK are the norm." Really. *eyebrow raised* Like all these damn "I wanna be a gangsta" or "I Love Thugs" books ain't keeping a negative stereotypical image of us going? *eyebrow raised* You tell me. I agree with Lambd: "As far as white folks feeling superior to everyone else on the planet, that aint gonna stop. They will always have that need no matter what Blacks or anyone else does. If a single black man cured cancer and AIDS, won twenty olympic gold medals, and scored 1600 on the SAT, white folks would find a way to take the credit for the cures, disqualify his gold medals, and conveniently lose his test scores." Yeah, and declare that Elvis is the King of Rock and Roll! The solution lies with how many of us will see this white folks way of thinking as bullsh_t, and how many of us won't? |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1117 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 04:31 pm: |
|
Thumper, You are absolutely wrong about me not reading Stephen King. I like him too, I have read, salem's lot, carrie, christine,the tommnyknockers, rosemadder, needful things, misery, half past midnight,(which is four short stories bound into a single book) thinner, (which he penned as richard bachman!) the dark half, dreamcatcher,pet cemetary, the green mile when it came out originally as a chapter book, which means that he released approximately one chapter per month among many!and couple other novels by him that he wrote after his car accident and were less memorable than some of the previous ones I have named. I read the novel by him about the writer out in the wilderness that was harrassed by a stranger who killed his cat and was recently made into a movie starring johnny dep too, but I cant think of the name of it. So you see thumper, I am quite well read when it comes to stephen king, that doesn't make my complaint about his use of the "magical negro" any less valid than if I had not read him. My views about this would've been the same if I had never cracked a one of his books. while you may have a point about street lit, the broader point would be this: when I or any other black person reads a street novel, we understand (or should) that those novels do NOT represent the sum total of who we as black people are! It is SOME black peoples experience and therefore it is A valid tale(s) that should be told! I can use yours and Lambds pov and say that about street lit...we have been writing books for years..literary and otherwise portraying blacks in positive lights and we have made movies as well, so if white people want to cling to the stereotypes of black based on a limited area of our lives being presented on (certain) books and films, then THEY CHOOSE to retain that point of view because they are A. Ignorant or B. stupid C. Just freakin WANT to believe that that's ALL that blacks are. And thumper, you totally missed my point as to King's writing about the so-called "magical/"super") negro. My point was not that it wasn't the norm in my opinion that a black should normally be thought of as wise and a better problem solver than a white, we know that this is a normal occurrence of life and skin color is not a predictor of who will be smarter. I was just pointing out that I thought that a white person who CHOOSES to write about blacks might be better able to communicate to other whites that HE thought this normal and not "magical or super". |
Thumper "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Thumper
Post Number: 307 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 07:00 pm: |
|
Hello All, A_womon wrote: "I was just pointing out that I thought that a white person who CHOOSES to write about blacks might be better able to communicate to other whites that HE thought this normal and not "magical or super"." Why? *eyebrow raised* Really, if white people don't know by now how black folks are just folks. If any white folks still believe that we are "magical", or lazy, or any other steretypical thing, let 'em. Because that there lets ME know that they're stupid and is beyond being reasoned with. They should know better by NOW. And like Teddy said, If you don't know me by now, you'll never ever know me." All Stephen King, or you or anyone else who would put themselves out there like that, all you would be doing is wasting your time. A_womon wrote: "while you may have a point about street lit, the broader point would be this: when I or any other black person reads a street novel, we understand (or should) that those novels do NOT represent the sum total of who we as black people are!" Yes, sugar, but you were talking about what WHITE people thought of us, not what we, black folks, think of ourselves. You ain't free yet, are you? |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1120 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 09:59 pm: |
|
Ok Thumper, Maybe I aint free, but as long as whites have the power, looking away and pretending that we no longer have to deal with how those in power percieve us is NOT going to make our problems go away. Now if we ever grow a world where the playin field is equal, and I don't have to worry about whether or not those stereotypes are going to cause me a job promotion, a job period, a loan I may need to buy a house one day, a loan i need to get a new car, equal access to a good education for my children, equal and fair testing practices in public schools, and on and on ad infinitum then and ONLY then will I say that I don't give a ratsazz WHAT those in power think or say. But we aint there yet--so I guess I aint free. BUT I got no plans to stop tryin to get there... |
Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm
Post Number: 1994 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
|
Foks, I think Steve's comments about King and other Whites artists using Black characters to help cleanse White people of their sins is profoundly apropos. But I also think Black people who expect White artists to consistently render Black characters in a manner in which many of us might appreciate are themselves hellbent on being disappointed. |
Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 770 Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 01:12 pm: |
|
Cynique: I am known by many names--You can call me Chris Hayden, Victor DeVarnado, St. Looie Blooze, O.G. Harlem Taproom Moe, The Hardest Working Man in Show Business, Black Jesus (not really but I'll throw it out there and maybe I can hook somebody on it)but ya duzzent has ta call me Nnedi (cuz I ain't her) Maybe I can have her log in and talk a little. All: I thought about this one a while. Of course I loathe stereotypes and when a brother or sister keeps showing up in the same role all the time without any reason (wouldn't Morgan Freeman be the quintessential MN?) I start rolling my eyes about it-- Of course this is not your classical stereotype--Sapphire, Jezebel, Mammy, Lightnin', Steppin Fetchit Uncle Tom, Bad N***er, but it is getting there-- On the other hand, Mr. King writes silly magical stories (which, so do I sometimes) and you have people in there that are silly magical people who exist only as Human Deus Ex Machina (how about Gandalf in Lord of the Rings? Obiwan Kenobi) to get the hero over. Is it that bad that the person is black? I would rather that than have them as the head scratchin' chicken stealin' idiot-- Of course he could make the black person the main character--wonder what his fans and editor and agent would have to say about that--plus the man lives in Maine--wonder how many blacks he has ever seen and, if he decided to write a Hip Hop romance novel or the Autobiography of Malcolm X how we might howl about him butchering the character-- It would be interesting to see him respond to this article. Maybe he has only met one or two Negroes and they were magical. There are some, you know. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1768 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
|
Your response to my stupid inquiry about your pen name was so funny, Chris. Wonder if anybody else gets your esoteric jokes. |
Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 772 Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 03:42 pm: |
|
Cynique: As long as you get them my living will not be in vain. |
Lambd "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Lambd
Post Number: 720 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 08:59 pm: |
|
Hayden, you have never been righter. I would much rather see some highly intelligent, gifted, super negroe than the head scratchin', 'yessa massa' anyday. I wouldn't be offended if King made the villain out to be one of them Super Negoes. He could use telepathy to lead them peckerwoods to a faux salvation just to make them die really horrible deaths once they got there...Muha! Muha! Muha hahaha! |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1123 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 09:01 pm: |
|
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shaaaaaaaaaddddddddddupppppp Lambd! You fulla ish!
|
Lambd "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Lambd
Post Number: 722 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 09:18 pm: |
|
I have no idea what you mean by that. Why are my ideas less valid? |
A_womon "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1124 Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 09:22 pm: |
|
si muy toro caca! TORO CACA!! toro caca! and if you wanna know what I said you know what to do!!! |
Steve_s Newbie Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 09:26 am: |
|
There are examples of the supernatural in The Known World: talking cadavers and Stamford's transformative experience with the crows and the lightning. I think these supernatural events might relate to folklore or Voodoo; the talking cadavers maybe to "zombification" and the lightning running away from Stamford (because it wasn't his time to die) to Shango or Django, the Voodoo deity of thunder and lightning, often associated with Saint Michael. The cabin comes flying by with the little girl in the doorway eating blueberries and then it flies away. The chapter title contains the phrase "Cabin in the Sky," which is a pun on either the Broadway musical or the 1943 movie version which featured "supernatural" roles such as Louis Armstrong as one of Lucifer's angels. The directors of "Cabin in the Sky" were Vincente Minelli and Busby Berkely. I think it's possible that Edward P. Jones is punning on some of these "holy" movie roles as well but with a twist. It also starred Lena Horne, Ethel Waters, and Eddie Anderson. I've never seen it, but it's supposed to be a repository of racial stereotypes, however, I was talking to someone who saw it at the time and wasn't offended by it. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1799 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 12:24 pm: |
|
"Cabin In The Sky" has appeared on the Turner Classic Movies (TCM) cable channel a couple of times this year and I've watched it. It is full of racial sterotypes but when put in the context of its times, it is an entertaining folk opera. |
Steve_s Newbie Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 09:12 pm: |
|
Thanks, Cynique. I'll look for it. Thumper, I've finished Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying." Whew! Where to begin talking about it.
|
Steve_s Newbie Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 09:17 pm: |
|
Totally unrelated to Stephen King, but just wanted to add this about The Known World:
It was therefore fitting that Hampton, one of the most prominent of the new black colleges in the South, would seize on the symbol of Conjure in its attempt to reorient African Americans and their cultural traditions. In 1878 Armstrong [Samuel Chapman Armstrong] sent out a circular letter to friends, interested parties, and subscribers to the school's newspaper, the Southern Workman, stating his intent to focus on the "curious prevalence of superstition among the colored people of the South." Armstrong requested eyewitness acounts of folk beliefs among blacks, and in particular, descriptions of root doctors and Conjurers. The goals of the folklore society at Hampton were elucidated in an introductory statement by the teacher who helped to organize the group, Alice Bacon. Before the annual meeting of the American Folklore Society in 1897 she read a platform that proclaimed the folklore society "arose . . . not in enthusiasm for the collection of folklore" but "from a strong desire on the part of some of those connected with the Hampton work to bridge over, if possible, the great gulf fixed between the minds of the educated and the uneducated . . . The study of folklore would allow Hampton students "to enter more deeply into the daily life of the common people, and to understand more thoroughly their ideas and motives." Interpretation of the past through folklore was a tool for understanding the present conditions and prospects of blacks in the United States . . . Teachers and students in the folklore society were soon fully involved in preserving the memory of indigenous African American traditions, the substance of a usable past. ( -- Yvonne P. Chireau, Associate Professor of Religion, Swarthmore College) In the very first paragraph of The Known World, Moses explains that he eats dirt for two different reasons and says that the women eat it for still another reason. Say what?
Moses closed his eyes and bent down and took a pinch of the soil and ate it with no more thought than if it were a spot of cornbread. He worked the dirt around in his mouth and swallowed, leaning his head back and opening his eyes in time to see the strip of sun fade to dark blue and then to nothing. He was the only man in the realm, slave or free, who ate dirt, but while the bondage women, particularly the pregnant ones, ate it for some incomprehensible need, for that something that ash cakes and apples and fatback did not give their bodies, he ate it not only to discover the strengths and weaknesses of the field, but because the eating of it tied him to the only thing in his small world that meant almost as much as his own life. (-- Edward P. Jones, The Known World) Since reading The Known World, I've come across a few more references to eating dirt. Here an American journalist who travels to Liberia to follow up on the descendants of a group of freed slaves who emigrated there in the 1840s, makes the following observation at an open-air market in Monrovia:
As Edward and I stroll through an outdoor market and pass a vendor selling dirt for human consumption, I mention that some African-Americans in the rural South have eaten dirt habitually for generations -- not just any dirt but dirt dug from favored sites -- and that there has been speculation that the habit was brought to America from Africa. (- Alan Huffman, Mississippi in Africa) It seems consistent with Moses's second reason. I also came across this one in a book about Faulkner, written by a black City University of New York professor:
For those of us who are Caribbean, our prophetic vision of the past makes us hear ("the eye listens") the cry Black slave women would shout to each other: "Mangé tè pa fè yich pou lesclavaj" ("Eating the earth saves a child from slavery"), which refers to the belief that eating dirt could make women abort when they had been raped by their masters or those sent to do their breeding for them. (-- Edouard Glissant, Faulkner, Mississippi) Of course this is very tragic and reminds one of Toni Morrison's Beloved, a novel based on the historical incident of Margaret Garner's infanticide in Cincinnati in 1856. Does it seem inconsistent with Edward P. Jones's example in which the women eat soil to aid a pregnancy? Not necessarily if it's a matter of degree, but I don't know because I had never heard of this before. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1800 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 11:40 am: |
|
I have heard of and even known black women from the rural south who ate dirt for whatever reason. As far as I could tell it was a craving, and might very well have been rooted in folk lore but more likely in a mineral deficiency. To this day a lot of black women, for some inexplicable reason, eat corn starch, which is bad for you because it can cause anemia. BTW, the technical term for this practice is "pica." |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 12:29 am: |
|
Thanks. There are supernatural events in Esi Edugyan's novel which some readers at Amazon.com have described as "gothic," a la Stephen King, I guess. But you eventually learn that it's African magic. You suspect it when the girl finds a ball of hair in her pillowcase, and then later there's some talk about juju. There's also an outside possibility of some Faulkner influence in the novel because like Darl in As I Lay Dying, the twins are institutionalized after starting a fire. Dick Hallorann in The Shining is psychic but I don't consider him a magical stereotype, although I haven't read the novel. However I think he does fit the movie cliche that when characters start getting picked off one by one, it's very often the black man who dies first (unless, as in the Friday the 13th or Jaws movies, there's a sexually-active teenage girl, who then will be the first to die, usually in a state of undress). Other examples of this syndrome: the preacher in The Emperor of Ocean Park who's found with burn marks all over his body. He's a philander involved with drugs, but the author spoofs Jessie Jackson and Kweisi Mfume on CNN calling it a hate crime. Another one I can think of is The Feast of the Goat by Mario Vargas Llosa, a recent novel about the assassination of Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo by a group of disgruntled Dominican military officers (who weren't exactly the choir boy type, having carried out the brutal El Corte massacre with machetes to make it look like a peasant conflict). As the black man is dying, the others call him by the "n-word," which they have to remind him is a term of affection among Latinos. The Palm Wine Drinkard by Amos Tutuola is a picaresque tale based on Yoruba folklore which contains very phantasmagorical characters and scenes. When it was first published in the 1950s, writers like Dylan Thomas praised it and said it was written in something they called "young English," if I remember correctly, and said it described the moment when oral culture becomes written. Some African literary scholars disagreed, saying that Tutuola's English was just poor, that he plagiarized the stories from another Nigerian writer, and that its popularity in the West was fueled by Europeans' desire to believe all sorts of fantastic things about Africa. So I was surprised to see an essay about it by Chinua Achebe in which he doesn't even mention the political brouhaha. I love Achebe's analysis, it's simple yet it makes sense, however, it's in the same collection which contains his essay about Conrad's The Heart of Darkness. I thought The Green Mile was a ridiculous movie. I don't read Stephen King, but these kinds of stereotypes you can see from two blocks away coming down Broadway. I think it's more interesting to try and identify positive stereotypes and cliches in literary fiction. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1820 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 05:56 pm: |
|
Yeah, the thing about the magical black characters is that the magic never seems to work on themselves. They have to use their powers to save white people. These transplanted African witch doctor types are also familiar characters in the slave quarters of period sagas about the old south. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:43 pm: |
|
Hey before I forget, thank you for replying to all my posts. Here's what I'm reading now: Random Family: Love, Drugs, Trouble, and Coming of Age in the Bronx by Adrian Nicole Leblanc. The author follows the members of one particular family (and their extended families) over a period of ten years. It's the ultimate street book. It's really about poverty and can at times be maddeningly stupid or touching. It's 400 pages but I think it's a really good book. Runaway America: Benjamin Franklin, Slavery, and the American Revolution by David Waldstreicher. I heard about this one through Max Rodriguez, the editor of QBR who named it one this year's best. It can be dry at times, but I think it's solid history, as opposed to Henry Wiencek's recent book An Imperfect God: George Washington, His Slaves, and the Creation of America, which I think is more pop history (although it reads well and Black Issues gave it a good review). I just prefer Waldstreicher's perspective because he's not trying to rehabilitate his subject. Here's the Denver Post review of Runaway America: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E28%257E2346056,00.html And I'm also reading Under Her Skin: How Girls Experience Race in America edited by Pooja Makhijani which includes a beautiful essay by AALBC's own Anita, who won't mind that I mention it. I'm looking forward to finishing the entire book. that's about it, thanks again Cynique : ) |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1826 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 12:02 am: |
|
You're welcome, "Steverino." Happy reading! |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 29 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:14 pm: |
|
Ralph Ellison discusses Hollywood's portrayal of blacks in film in a 1949 essay called "The Shadow and the Act." He talks about the difference between image (shadow) and reality (act). And he makes the point that obviously some of these depictions are not about blacks at all but about what whites think of blacks. And he adds the interesting point that despite all of this, the films are worth seeing and are capable of involving us emotionally. He's talking about dramatic films like Faulkner's Intruders in the Dust, not about Carrie getting a bucket of blood dumped on her head at the prom or a big, blubbering convict sent down from heaven. Stephen King stood before the audience at the National Book Awards and told great writers like Shirley Hazzard and Edward Jones that they're out of touch with their culture and that they should start reading his co-collaborator Peter Straub. Shirley Hazzard's The Great Fire doesn't contain any racial stereotypes that I can tell, the novel is set in Europe, Asia, and Australia after WWII and one of her characters compares her country's race laws to Mussolini's and considers his possible marriage to a Eurasian Portuguese woman in light of White Australia Policy. Divine movie roles are deeply embedded in the culture, from Green Pastures to Cabin in the Sky, The Preacher's Wife, and all the rest. Stephen King didn't invent it, he just raised it to new heights. I notice that his book about the craft of writing contains a reading list of about fifty books which doesn't include any black writers that I can tell. That's normal for many readers. From what little I know it would seem that a stereotype like the tragic mulatto, which began as a viable character type for white and black authors alike, has been pretty much jettisoned by modern black authors because of all of its negative connotations. However, the main characters in a novel like The Time of Our Singing (by a white author and which contains no negative stereotypes to speak of) are basically tragic mulattos. It's not a simple novel and it's not a melodrama. It presents representations of: cultural ownership in music, various philosophies of black self-help (from Louis Farrakhan to unfunded Black Panther-styled Oakland schools, to black opera singers who espouse separate-but-equal philosophies in the arts). He's not "Carlo" Van Vechten, but he does recycle every black power axiom from the sixties I can think of. One of the points Toni Morrison makes in Playing in the Dark (I read it a long time ago and have forgotten most of it) is that there should be a place in literary criticism for the analysis of how so-called "Africanist presences" (which could be a person or something else) function in literature. She uses examples from Hemingway and others, adding that her purpose is not to identify racism, but merely to expand the literary analysis to include the symbolism and meanings of color or race. The novel Brick Lane by Monica Ali (who is not white but a brown skin Briton, daughter of a Bengali father and a white British mother) deals gracefully with subjects like: anti-immigrant violence, glass ceilings, race riots, 9/11 backlash, paternalism within her "own" culture -- although she doesn't speak the language and has been accused by some of representing a cultural experience not her own -- and it's very rich in literary references from traditional storytelling to the Qu'ran, Shakespeare, and classical Bengali literature like Tagore and others. There's only one black character in the novel, a Muslim man who attends the first meeting of the Bengali Tigers -- not a gang but a Muslim youth group (with militant tendencies) which meets at the Tower Hamlets housing project (or "estates"), mostly in solidarity against the Lion Hearts, their British counterparts who have been causing trouble. Anyway, because the black man doesn't speak the language, they decide to hold it in English. So I don't really interpret that as a stereotype, it's using the presence of a black character to make a statement about the Bangladeshi Muslims themselves -- their open-mindedness or egalitarianism in accomodating an outsider. And then during the Brick Lane riot the woman protagonist finds him praying in the street and has to urge him to get out of there. She's portraying him as a devout person, but one so naive about the power of prayer that she has to come to the resuce. That's a little improbable IMO because chances are that a black man living in London is already going to know to do that. Then there are stereotypes like this one from another British novel, Atonement by Ian McEwan. This comes near the end and there have been no previous Africanist presences. The point of view is that of the seventy year-old woman "author":
The Rolls must have turned my head, because the car when it came -- fifteen minutes late -- was a disappointment. Such things do not usually trouble me. It was a dusty minicab, whose rear seat was covered in a nylon fur with a zebra pattern. But the driver, Michael, was a cheerful West Indian lad who took my case and made a fuss of sliding the front passenger seat forward for me. Once it was established that I would not tolerate the thumping music at any volume from the speakers on the ledge behind my head, and he had recovered from a little sulkiness, we got along well and talked about families. He had never known his father, and his mother was a doctor at the Middlesex Hospital. He himself graduated in law from Leicester University, and now he was going to the LSE to write a doctoral thesis on law and poverty in the third world. As we headed out of London by the dismal Westway, he gave me his condensed version: no property law, therefore no capital, therefore no wealth. "There's a lawyer talking," I said. "Drumming up business for yourself." He laughed politely, though he must have thought me profoundly stupid. It is quite impossible these days to assume anything about people's educational level from the way they talk or dress or from their taste in music. Safest to treat everyone you meet as a distinguished intellectual. I laughed at it, it's ridiculous, but it's still a good novel, whether you like it or not. I didn't take it as a statement of the character's (although it could be) so much as the author's botched attempt at "color-blindness." There's no mention of color. I once knew a white Jamaican record producer who spoke like a black reggae musican and probably listened to thumping music in his car, but, the collective effect of the surprising number of code words in this example, plus the model citizen or model minority stereotype is that the Jamaican taxi driver is black. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1846 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
|
What do you think of Morgan Freeman's portrayal the black chauffeur in "Driving Miss Daisy?" I thought that role was representative of the black character as one who stoops to conquer. These types assume a humble mien but in effect are humoring and controlling their white charges. Their dignity transcends their subservient station and they become Uncle Toms in charge. Hattie MacDaniel's mammy character in "Gone With The Wind", was another personification of this concept. Is there a literary category for this black presence in fiction?? |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:17 pm: |
|
That's a good point. I never saw Driving Miss Daisy or Gone With the Wind so I can't comment specifically, but I see your point although I don't know enough to say if there's a category for that kind of character. Ralph Ellison's description of the movie version of Faulkner's "Intruders in the Dust" suggests characters who step outside of what he calls "Southern racial ethics," or, to use his example, without any loss of dignity for the black man who saves the white boy from drowning. In fact, it sounds like an interesting reversal so I'll have to read the Faulkner novel it's based on. Personally, I don't use the Uncle Tom stereotype for a number of reasons, however, I know how it's commonly understood (although I still don't like it). It's my understanding that the so-called Magic Negro is an old movie stereotpye. Then Spike Lee saw The Green Mile and added the "super duper" because it was so over the top, even for that old stereotype. IMO, the Dick Halloran character in the Shining is not even a Magic Negro, let alone a super duper one. It pads the thesis though, just like hardly anyone who brings up Achebe's thesis about The Heart of Darkness ever mentions the other book he cites: Mister Johnson by Joyce Cary, because it's not a short story, it's a novel, and it requires taking the time to read! Achebe also mentions V.S. Naipaul, whose novel about Africa, A Bend in the River, I have read. I haven't read the novel The Shining, but in the movie Dick Halloran works at the Overlook Hotel. He connects with the little boy because they're both psychic. He gives the boy fatherly advice, he tells him that psychic visions are "like pictures in a book," in other words, that they're harmelss if he stays out of a certain room. He doesn't help white people reproduce or anything weird like that. That winter when he's in Florida, Halloran intuits that there's trouble at the hotel. If he receives psychic communication from the boy, I didn't pick it up although I've seen the movie many times. IMO he goes back up to the hotel to investigate the trouble, not to save "the white people." There are only three people there and they're all white so technically, he might be. I've been thinking about the Toni Morrison book, Playing in the Dark, although, like I said, I read it a while ago. I don't know if you've read it, but it's based on her Harvard lectures in which she comments on the literary establishment's failure to address representations of color or race in American literature. I agree with her, at least as far as I can understand it. However, the introduction to the book includes the analogy of a literary reference to jazz music as an "Africanist presence," and that I have to question. I think it's like apples and oranges, in other words, it's one thing to say that the literary establishment (read: white) refuses to deal with any analysis of the symbolisms of color in literature by Hemingway, Willa Cather, et al. I agree with her on that. But let me describe how she uses jazz music as a parallel. She cites an excerpt from French feminist author (who I believe was also an addict) Marie Cardinal's spiritual autobiography in which her description of hearing Louis Armstrong pinpoints her first encounter with the "thing," i.e., mental illness. I copied the following paragraphs because I love her description of an improvised jazz solo:
"My first anxiety attack occurred during a Louis Armstrong concert. I was nineteen or twenty. Armstrong was going to improvise with his trumpet, to build a whole composition in which each note would be important and would contain within itself the essence of the whole. I was not disappointed: the atmosphere warmed up very fast. The scaffolding and flying butresses of the jazz instruments supported Armstrong's trumpet, creating spaces which were adequate enough for it to climb higher, establish itself, and take off again. The sounds of the trumpet sometimes piled up together, fusing a new musical base, a sort of matrix which gave birth to one precise, unique note, tracing a sound whose path was almost painful, so absolutely necessary had its equilibrium and duration become; it tore at the nerves of those who followed it. My heart began to accelerate, becoming more important than the music, shaking the bars of my rib cage, compressing my lungs so the air could no longer enter them. Gripped by panic at the idea of dying there in the middle of spasms, stomping feet, and the crowd howling, I ran into the street like someone possessed." -- Marie Cardinal qtd. in Toni Morrison, Playing in the Dark Toni Morrison's point is that she wonders why the catalyst for Marie Cardinal's anxiety attack, i.e., the Louis Armstrong solo, goes unnoticed by her analyst, Bruno Bettleheim. Then she goes into Cardinal's history and says that the "art of a black musician" (Armstrong) may have brought to the surface conflicting pain that the war in Algeria had caused her as a French girl born in Algeria. That's fine, but I wonder what exactly is the "Africanist presence" in this musical analogy. Is it the man himself, Louis Armstrong, a black musician? Or is it the "art," in other words, the music itself? (If so, would she have had an anxiety attack to Bix Beiderbecke, Ruby Braff or Jimmy McPartalnd -- three white trumpeters -- sitting in with Louis Armstrong's band and playing in essentially the same style?) And do Morrison's assumptions conflict with what Angela Davis said in a symposium on jazz and race a few years ago?:
ANGELA DAVIS: I want to actually quote Robert O'Meally from his anthology, The Jazz Cadence of American Culture. And he says, "Somehow jazz is black music with the voices and values of U.S. Negro life and times even when nonblacks are playing it, for as literary historian Gina Dent has asserted, 'You don't have to be black to be a carrier of black culture.'" In the same breath, O'Meally's quote continues: "It is the music of the country that its creators, often with little affection, call home. Call it freedom music with a tragicomic black arc." Or is it as Toni Morrison conjectures the "cultural associations of jazz? (For instance, did Marie Cardinal hear Armstrong play at a black speakeasy on Chicago's South Side where she felt uneasy being one of the few white people in the audience? Was that the catalyst?) Or is it what Morrison calls "the 'consequences' of jazz -- its visceral, emotional, and intellectual impact on the listener?" (See example 2 above). Well, did Cardinal know her jazz history, for example, that the American Federation of Musicians in Chicago (a racket run by the Mob) had a Local 10 (white) and a Local 208 (black) and never the twain did meet, except after hours? Personally, I don't think jazz music is a good analogy to what she's describing in literature.
|
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:19 pm: |
|
Here's something else I've been thinking about. "The Cattle Killing" by John Edgar Wideman and "The Heart of Redness" by Zakes Mda are both based on the same historical incident in nineteenth century South Africa in which a false prophesy by a teenage girl led the Xhosa to slaughter their herds in the belief that their ancestors would return to fight the British invaders. Wideman's narrator, a twentieth century author who is writing a book called "The Cattle Killing," compares the self-destruction of urban youth in Philadelphia to the cattle killing of the Xhosa. He also compares Christianity to the false prophesy of Nonqawuse, and says that when the Believers destroyed their cattle they murdered their own identity. "The cattle are the people and the people are the cattle." Mda's interpretation is diametrically the opposite. He's sympathetic to the Believers. He portrays the Nonbelievers as sentimentalists who weep about everything, including what might have been had the followers of Nonqawuse not destroyed their cattle. While the Nonbelievers are weeping with joy over South Africa's newly-won freedom, they're also being scammed by developers in the guise of black empowerment who want to build luxury resort casinos for British tourists. The Believers are the idealists who are best able to adapt to change and preserve their cultural ideals. It's the Believers who wear the traditional red ochre dye and fight for ecotourism, communal water taps, small business ventures, etc. So what accounts for the vastly different interpretations of the cattle killing incident? I have some ideas, but I don't believe that Mda has "cultural ownership" of the hisotical incident just because he's South African. Wideman should be able to interpret it any way he chooses, just as Mda should be able to imagine Philadelphia any way he likes. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 06:21 pm: |
|
One more thing and I'm gonna let you go. There's a new edition in the bookstores of "The Man Who Cried I Am" by John A. Williams. Superficially it's similar to Philip Roth's new novel "The Plot Against America" in that Williams's "Plan King Alfred" and the conspiracy by the "Alliance Blanc" resemble Roth's "Just Folks" program, the Office of American Absorbtion, etc. Anyway, Mosley says in his introduction that:
To compare Williams to Ellison and Baldwin would be to call him a Negro writer; as if race had anything to do with his genius. Well, I don't know about that. For one thing, I hate being told that I assume "X" and "Y" based on "Z." But in addition to that, hasn't Mosley just shot down Langston Hughes's great artistic manifesto of the Harlem Renaissance, "The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain," in which Hughes states that wanting to be "a poet" and not "a Negro poet" is akin to saying one wants to be "a white poet" which is the same as saying one want's to be white? http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/hughes/mountain.htm |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1865 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 05:41 pm: |
|
In response to some of the provocative subjects you touched upon, Steve, I would say that I can conceive of how strong emotions could be triggered by a listener's reactions to a pattern of sounds that mesmerized her and put her in sync with the meandering brain waves of a jazz musician doing his improvisational thing. Jazz is a mirror of the black experience; it is an escape from oppression, and a freedom of expression; a triumph over boundaries. So while jazz originated within the soul of black folks, it resonates with anybody who consciously or sub-consciously feels constrained, whether it be creatively or otherwise. America may be the country or origin of black jazz, but the origin of white jazz is in the landscape of the psyche. (I'd say this would also apply to the Blues except that Blues is a moan, a feeling of despair that transcends skin color.) As for the magical negro, I'm tempted to play with the idea that whites instinctively view blacks with a caution that is laced with apprehension, - an embedded mind-set that dates back to slavery and has subtlely persisted through the ages. But astute whites would rather believe that the reason blacks unnerve them is not because they are smarter than them, but because blacks are a primitive aberration and are tuned into the supernatural. (Especially since they somehow seem to know what whites are thinking.) Once this idea makes it into the field literature, then the magical negro is born and nurtured into a stereotype.. I was also very interested in what you mentioned one of my favorite poets, Langston Hughes, had to say in regard to black poets. Hughes' "manifesto" was intriguing and I suspect it might have been inspired by his contemporary, Countee Cullen, another Harlem Renaissance figure who always wanted to be regarded as simply a poet, not a black poet. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:11 pm: |
|
Thanks, Cynique, I agree with much of what you say, although some of it I'll have to think over. I know these subjects are very provocative but no one ever talks about them (at least I don't) so thanks for your input and patience. I was wondering if Countee Cullen was the subject of the Hughes's essay (maybe I overstated in calling it, rather than Alain Locke's "The New Negro," the "manifesto" of the Renaissance, maybe neither were, I'm no expert) but I haven't read enough about Cullen to say (I did read his very moving poem about a mother who visits John Brown's grave). Oh, Marie Cardinal grew up in Algeria in the '30s and '40s so she wouldn't have heard Louis Armstrong at the Lincoln Gardens on Chicago's South Side or anyplace similar. Also, Wideman and Mda's interpretations of the catlle killing are not exactly "opposite" as I stated, but they are different. Another thing I noticed is that Wideman's view of Benjamin Rush in his excellent short story "Fever" is quite different from Benjamin Thrush in The Cattle Killing. And not even recognizable from the way Rush is usually portrayed in black history texts, to give one example, "Africans in America" by Charles R. Johnson and Deborah Smith. I didn't ask if you'd read The Cattle Killing, but in any case, here's a brief bio of Rush the abolitionist from Africans in America: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3p458.html I can understand that the guy might have been a serious hypocrite, but in the Cattle Killing he's described as:
the bigoted Temperance leader Dr. Benjamin Rush . . . Dr. Thrush (the historic Benjamin Rush), a madman/rapist in addition to being a dangerous racist . . . (-- Joyce Carol Oates, John Edgar Wideman: Memoir and Fiction) We could talk about the specific differences, but there's quite a disparity there. In The Known World I noticed the author's subtle use of sarcasm in his description of Minerva, the child slave given as a wedding present to Belle Skiffington. He puts dialogue into the mouths of some of the white characters which is probably fairly typical of the things that people of color have heard, overheard, or have had to listen to forever. But there's a comparison made in one section of the novel about how some ladies treat their house-servants as non-understanding/non-hearing beings. So those would not be the astute white people, per your description, but their opposite. There's a new book out about Nat Turner, written by a professor of African American studies at UVA (if that's the correct abbreviation for Virginia), or rather, it's about the changing interpretations of Nat Turner's rebellion over time (I guess it's similar in some ways to Farah Jasmine Griffin's book about Billie Holiday (which is on my TBR - to be read - stack); not a biography, but an exploration of the meaning of the life or the event and its mythology). But in the aftermath of Nat Turner's rebellion, the Va legislature considered different courses of action, including gradual emancipation and removal. And one legislator was bothered by that. He said "We debate it, the press debates it, everybody debates it . . as if the slaves around us had neither eyes nor ears." More astute than the previous example but not yet up to ascribing mind reading powers. Hey I hope this is not offending you Cynique, that's not my intention at all. The idea of black slave ownership is used satirically in Stephen L. Carter's "The Emperor of Ocean Park" when the law professor protagonist explains how one of his ancestors, a free black Virginia slave owner, was forced to flee the Commonwealth in the 1830s after Nat Turner's rebellion caused the state legislature to rethink the idea of free blacks. I seem to remember that Paul Beatty uses a similar kind of humor with his character Gunnar Kaufman's lackey family tree. But my point is that Nat Turner's rebellion caused the legislature to impose harsher black codes and other measures, but, according to the well-researched book I mentioned, it doesn't appear that re-enslaving free blacks was given any consideration (although I know that that happened outside the law, as in The Known World, when the Tennesseans Stennis and Darcy kidnap Augustus -- Darcy is after a character in a Jane Austen novel and James R. Stennis was the segregationist governor of Mississippi I believe).
The Viginia General Assembly, responding to public outcry in the immediate aftermath of the rebellion, debated plans for the gradual abolition of slavery and the removal of all free persons of color from the Commonwealth. In the end, state legislators decided by a slim majority to defer action on such sweeping reforms and instead passed measures aimed at tightening control over the slave population. (-- Scott French, The Rebellious Slave: Nat Turner in American Memory) Satire relies on stereotypes, like Gunnar's view of John Brown's raid and Carter's insistence that white liberals are the instigators behind affirmative action, in the face of the heroic iconoclasm of pro-life lesbian activists and Liberals for Bush, but its possible that his joke is not based on historical fact. About the Langston Hughes essay. It is interesting, isn't it? Besides the assumptions he opens the essay with, it strikes me as quite pessimistic, in that he raises the very real possibility that the "racial" art which he so values will not be appreciated by anyone, either black or white:
The Negro artist works against an undertow of sharp criticism and misunderstanding from his own group and unintentional bribes from the whites. One example he uses is Cane by Jean Toomer, which he says black people hated, whites ignored, and only the critics adored. Do you agree with my interpretation?
The colored people did not praise it. The white people did not buy it. Most of the colored people who did read Cane hate it. They are afraid of it. Although the critics gave it good reviews the public remained indifferent. Welcome to the world of modern jazz! The "low-down people" as he calls them are never going to like a book like Cane or for that matter, jazz music, except during the golden age when jazz was popular dance music. BTW, Jazz pianist Andrew Hill has recorded a musical interpretation of Cane, called "Dusk," although I haven't heard it. I also read that some of the "Sonnet" pieces in Billy Strayhorn's/Duke Ellington's Shakesperian suite (Such Sweet Thunder) approximate "iambic pentameter" or some such thing, by, if I remeber correctly, by using fourteen phrases of ten note. Anyway, when Langston Hughes wrote the piece in 1926, jazz was the popular music of the country and everyone liked it. There was a definite bourgeois element (I have read E. Franklin Frazier's book, although on my own, I didn't "study" it under the guidance of a teacher) which I think he's referring to. But this was also the prime of Marian Anderson and Roland Hayes. BTW, in the New Negro, Alain Locke describes Jazz as:
One-third Negro folk idiom, one-third ordinary middle class American idea and sentiment, and one-third spirit of the "machine-age" which, more and more, becomes not American but Occidental. One thing that's interesting to me in the Langston Hughes essay is that he holds Charles Chesnutt in high regard as the type of artist he admires:
The road for the serious black artist, then, who would produce a racial art is most certainly rocky and the mountain is high. Until recently he received almost no encouragement for his work from either white or colored people. The fine novels of Chesnutt go out of print with neither race noticing their passing. I'm sure this will sound very provocative, but my opinion of Chesnutt was formed a long time ago by reading Blues People (which I've read three or four times):
Robert A. Bone discusses a Negro author, Charles Chestnutt [sic], who wrote a novel, The Marrow of Tradition, around the time a great many of the better class of Negroes were reacting against two hundred years of slavery by trying to abandon almost all their "Negro traits." Chestnutt's [sic] novel shows the kind of attitude that was adopted by some. The "hero" is a refined Afro-American doctor, who is forced to share a Jim Crow car with dirty, boisterous, and drunken Negroes. He is revolted by these people, farm laborers, in the coach, and Chesnutt says, "These people were just as offensive to him as to the whites in the other end of the train." This kind of hideous attitude in a Negro (and most of the Negro novelists of the time were quite close to Chesnutt in their social attitudes) could only stem from an acceptance of the idea of the superiority of the white man, or at least the proposition that the Negro, somehow, must completely lose himself within the culture and social order of the ex-master. It is another aspect of the slave mentality. -- LeRoi Jones, Blues People Here's the offending chapter: http://docsouth.unc.edu/chesnuttmarrow/chesmarrow.html#marrow48 I've since read many other opinions of Chesnutt (including that of Howard University professor Sterling A. Brown, who incidentally, was the inspiration for "Blues People") and I think there are a few interesting point here, although I can't speak directly about The Marrow of Tradition because I havne't yet read it. But I think I'll hold off until until you state your opinion, if you care to. thanks much, s
|
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1866 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 03:12 am: |
|
Everything I say, Steve, is my opinion. But my opinions are sometimes based on what I have read. For instance, there are slave narratives and tales passed down through families which suggest that the element of fear did exist between the slave master and the people he enslaved. First of all, I certainly wouldn't call anybody "astute" who was in denial about a black person's ability to see or hear. And these frivolous white women did, indeed, harbor a strong fear of black men. Fearful white men did avoid dealing with what were known as the "bad/crazy niggas" of which there were many. Slaveowners never wanted their slaves to learn how to read because they feared this would encourage them to become uppity and desireous of their freedom. Slaveowners did think that tranplanted the jungle creatures who became their slaves, possessed mysterious powers. And it wasn't that hard for blacks to instinctively know what whites were thinking because the reactions and body language of whites gave them away.(Even today there remains an undercurrent of fear in the white-black equation because of the bad stereotypes whites retain about black people.) And I still think that all of this contributed to the evolution of the magical negro. I don't have any comments to make on anything else you cited except to wonder why "Cane" was not at first popular among blacks but did endure all of these years and is now considered to be a classic by them. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1869 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:00 am: |
|
BTW, Steve, do you ever form an opinion just off the top of your head, or do you always draw your ideas and conclusions from what other writers and artists say about a subject? Just curious, and this is not a criticism of your talent for bedazzling your audience with quotations, it is really just leading up to a another question that I'm curious about, which is: how do YOU think the "magical negro" character came into being????? Or do you have an opinion on this? |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 01:05 am: |
|
Dear Cynique, I think if you told Stephen King that the Chaneysville Incident and Kindred were palimpsest narratives, he's probably think you were talking about Kerry's praise of Dick Cheney's daughter during the presidential debates. I expressed my opinion on this stereotype at the beginning (I've just been hangin on to talk to you, but now I see that's over). It's a "positive" stereotype. If it weren't, do you think great actors like Fishburne and Cheadle would be accepting these roles? No, and there are many more insidious stereotypes than this one which I'm willing to talk about in the context of literature, but not Stephen King novels, because I don't read them. About your "Cane" question, I think Langston Hughes not only said that it was unpopular but that black people hated and feared it. I think it was unpopular because it's experimental in structure, a combination of prose, poetry, and drama, and often the meaning of the pieces lies just beyond the reader's grasp. For me, there's beauty in that mystery. Cane was written shortly before Hughes's essay and grew out of Toomer's first experience in the South. I think people hated and possibly feared it because as a paean to the passing of an era in the African American experience, I'm sure it raised unpleasant associations for some which were best left forgotten. You can see from contributing to this forum how even books like The Known World and The Souls of Black Folk can be provocative to some readers. As I remember, it also deals with miscegenation and sexuality, and the story that comes to mind is the one about the woman who lives by the railroad tracks, which is slightly disturbing in nature. I think there's a lot more to be said about the essay, but somewhere else. thanks, s |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1874 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 11:15 am: |
|
Come on now, Steverino, you requested that I not be "offended" by what you said and now I ask that you not be "offended" by what I said. First, let me assure that I don't necessarily think that the "magical negro characters" were negative or positive. I thought they were created with good intentions but were maybe influenced by subconscious notions on the part of the white people who created them. And I certainly think you have a right to disagree with that, just as I disagree with your contention that Fishburne and Cheadle wouldn't take such roles unless they were positive. Black actors don't always have the option to wait around for positive roles, so they will often settle for roles they consider "challenging." This is not to say that these Laurence and Don didn't convince themselves that the roles were positive- especially if the price was right. But we are all entitled to interpret things in our own way. That's what having an opinion is all about. Also, thank you for clarifing and enlightening me about "Cane." I found your explanation very interesting and I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 35 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 05:07 pm: |
|
I meant to ask you about your screen name. Isn't Cynique a fictional character in a novel, possibly one by Jamaica Kincaid? I've found no references in any of my books to any reader reactions to Cane (although at fewer than 500 copies sold, it didn't exactly fly off the shelves). According to David Levering Lewis (When Harlem was in Vogue) it was almost unanimously praised by the African American literati, with the possible exception of Countee Cullen who had mixed feelings. FYI, "quoting" is a modernist technique in literature as well as music, both jazz and classical (though not necessarily message board posting). I think Zadie Smith's interpolation of Zeno's Paradox in White Teeth is a kind of quoting. Wayne Shorter's quote of "Morning Mood" (from the Peer Gynt Suite of Edvard Grieg) on "I Didn't Know What Time it Was" by Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers ("Ugetsu") is a kind of signifyin(g) because he tells you what time it was. One of the contexts of the Hughes essay was the constraint younger writers were feeling due to the dictums of the Renaissance; the pressure to create a type of dignified character in their novels. Perhaps Langston's investment in blues and folk culture was related and antithetical to what Du Bois would have preferred. Lastly, I'm not sure if readers are aware of the extent of the current popularity of Ralph Ellion's cultural concepts. It's due in large part to the Ken Burns Jazz special. Ellison's ideas are blues based but different in significant ways from what LH expresses in his essay. Yes, Ellison believed in a black culture which grew up in isolation in this country but ironically, not in a white culture. He would not agree with the Blues People concept of an American musical "mainstream" that is not influenced by blacks. He believed in a hybrid American culture which was influenced from the beginning by blacks, Indians, yankees, et al. One of his influences in this was Constance Rourke. It's just interesting to see intellectuals like Cornel West and even Ishmael Reed adopt some of his ideas. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1879 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 06:53 pm: |
|
"Cynique" may be a fictional name in a book, but for my purposes it is a combination of the words "cynical" and "critique." Need I say more? LOL. Now, about Langston Hughes, it seems to me I remember him saying in later years that the "Harlem Renassiance" was a figment of the imagination of the white literati and that the black artists anointed by this group went along with the perception because it was to their advantage to do so, but the white idea of the "new negro" was an inside joke among the "niggerati", (a term coined by Zora Neal Hurston,) because there had always been a black literary community long before itwas "discovered" and made fashionable by well-meaning whites. And about quotations, it sounds similar to what Rappers do when they "sample" cuts from old school hits into their renditions. Of course, jazz musicians have always injected little passages from 1930 and 1940 Broadway musicals into their solos, because these tunes by such composers as Cole Porter and Jerome Kern and Rogers and Hart and George Gershwin were so melodic and had such great lyrical titles.In fact songs by these composers have become classsic jazz standards. Finally, what you have to say about Ralph Ellison is very palatable to my taste. Not something I have a problem with at all.
|
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 06:47 pm: |
|
I'm sure I saw the name Cynique in the Oxford Companion to African American Literature and forgot to make a note of it. I know it's your name too. I've read a couple of good books about the Harlem Renaissance and some biographies but I'd like to read a few more individual works. It sounds like there were a lot of inside jokes going around at the time but I think the term the "new negro" was coined by Alain Locke. I'm interested in the history of this literature and I'm learning it as I go. I'm also interested in the theoretical aspects of music and literature -- movements, schools, and such. I botched the first part of the Ellison idea (see, I should have quoted it). He actually said the opposite, that black people did not develop in isolation but with "a special awareness, because our experience has in certain ways been different from white people, but it was not absolutely different." But I think I stated the second part correctly, about his belief in hybrid identity. Cornel West calls it "improvisatory modes of being," a very Ellisonian idea I would say. Jazz as democracy, a theme in Ken Burns' series, also currently in use by Cornel West, is another idea associated with Ralph Ellison (although in a very interesting piece I just discovered by historian Robin D.G. Kelley about the African American experience with communism, he talks about the Party's embracing a broad range of black culture, including jazz music, during the Harlem Renaissance. That's something I didn't know about at all, but it's interesting in light of what I was trying to express about the Trotskyite NY modern art critics. I'll have to spend some time with that book and clarify those ideas. It's exactly like what the rappers do! And what do you call the music that samples jazz songs like Herbie Hancock's "Oliloqui Valley"? Man, I'm old! Yeah, the jazz musicians did all that and they made a music out of Tin Pan Alley songs that is far more beautiful and complex than what the composers created. Louis Armstrong is credited for being the first to fuse the blues with Tin Pan Alley songs. It expanded the harmonic framework for improvisation, but just enough. I read Ralph Ellison's "Juneteenth" for the first time over the summer. It may not hold up a unified whole, but man, there is some amazing writing in there. And the character, Alonzo Hickman, a black jazz musician who becomes a preacher and raises a little white boy (who himself becomes a child preacher and grows up to become a racist southern Senator!) is sometimes described as what Ellison (and Albert Murray) had in mind for a "blues hero." I also think he embodies the concept of improvisatory identity. They both do. I'll have to read it again. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1884 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 12:42 am: |
|
I read Zora Neal Hurston's biography last year and found it very satisfactory. I like immersing myself into the lives and times of the Harlem Renaissance figures because the era was as compelling as the people who populated it. The biography of Nella Larsen which I just happened upon a few years ago was what really stirred my interest in this period in black America's history because Nella's life story was so engrossing, and the author did such a good job of recreating the environment in which she lived. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 37 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 04:20 pm: |
|
I read Wrapped in Rainbows too. I thought it was very nice. I didn't know about the Nella Larsen bio, I've only read her in anthologies although I have Passing and Quicksand. So many great books, so little time. I recently picked up Black Manhattan by James Weldon Johnson which promises to have more about the HR than Along This Way (good though it was). He died tragically in a car accident. New books, miscellaneous: How do you like the new biography of Canada Lee? Don't know much about him but I've heard it's good. He happens to be mentioned in the Robin D.G. Kelley piece I was talking about, along with Count Basie, W.C. Handy, Lena Horne and Andy Razaf as bigwigs in the black entertainment world in the late 1930s who performed at Communist-organized benefits. The library here doesn't have it, but they do have the new one about Marie Laveau by Martha Ward (I believe her name is). I recently picked up Arc of Justice by Kevin Boyle which won this year's National Book Award for nonfiction. Heard it's great. I've also read more than half of Stanley Crouch's new book which I like for the number of essays about literature. It's called "The Artificial White Man: Essays on Authenticity" but perhaps it should be called "The Inauthentic Caucasian," you know, a reversal of the old Anatole Broyard propostition. You know that Nicholas Pillegi (Goodfellas, Casino) is married to Nora Ephron but he's an authentic Italian although I think one played Tony Montana too. The title essay of Crouch's book you don't want to know about : ) |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1886 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 09:25 pm: |
|
I found the biography of Canada Lee very interesting. He was a talented, remarkable man of great integrity who made his mark in many areas, starting out as a jockey, then going on into boxing, all the while working as a musician, and finally ending up as a distinguished Broadway actor who also appeared in films. But his career paralleled that of another outstanding black man, Paul Robeson, whose reputation was smeared by the FBI Communist witch hunts of the 1930s and 40s. Like Robeson, who resolutely spoke out against racial injustice, Lee was embraced by the Communist party and subsequently accused of being a "red" sympathizer, an allegation which made him a "personae non gratis" in the political climate that existed in America at that time. After being black-listed and unable to find steady work, Lee's health failed, and he died in his late 40s, a broken, tragic figure, because all he asked of the country that betrayed him and which he loved very much, was for it to live up to its promise of equality for all men. He quickly faded into oblivion, all but-forgotten until this recently-released autobiography revived interest in him. I was just fortunate enough to have caught one of his old movies on the late night TV a while back and he did have a great screen presence and a wonderfully resonant voice. So sad. BTW, I must say your reading habits boggle my mind. These days I'm reading less, and enjoying it more, basically because I have cut back on fiction, or at least on pop fiction, anyway. Obviously, I've bought into the "truth is stranger than fiction" idea. I guess this is because I've become jaded and I just relate to people who really lived more than I do to made-up characters and contrived plots. Oh well. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 38 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Thanks for the information on Canada Lee. I had heard about the book in a Book TV feature on "fall picks" by various editors. I had not heard of him before. I hear you about the "truth is stranger than fiction" idea, I feel the same way. The title essay of the Crouch book is a review of a weird book written by a basketball hanger-on who has some juvenile fantasies about NBA players. Otherwise, I like the book a lot. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1896 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
|
A lot of people bad-mouth Stanley Crouch, but I always find him entertaining. Just when you think you've got him pegged, he comes out of another bag. I don't know if this is relevant to what Crouch's book is about but I remember reading about certain white musicians using the term "crow jim" when describing the reverse discrimination resentful blacks once practiced against white jazz men. Stan Kenton and Stan Getz, both felt they were victims of this bias, as I recall. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 07:49 pm: |
|
That was part of the dialogue in the '60s. Downbeat magazine once featured a panel discussion which asked "Is there Jim Crow in Jazz?" and then they also wanted to know "Is there any Crow Jim in jazz, what about Crow Jane, etc?" That's not a subject in this book. I just finished it, all except for the 70-page essay on Quentin Tarantino which I didn't feel like reading right now, although I like Tarantino. Crouch reads very widely like I try to do, and I just might check out some of the books he mentions. I think the best piece is one called "Segregated Fiction Blues," or "Some Vote for Literary Segregation, Others Don't." One of the books he likes is The Human Stain by Philip Roth. He also likes Roth's American Pastoral, but he has some criticisms of the way Angela Davis is portrayed (which I don't completely understand not having read it). His recent review in Salon is very critical of Roth's new book -- The Plot Against America -- in fact, Crouch's may be one of the few dissenting opinions. TPAA is a counterfactual history of America in 1940. In the novel, FDR is defeated by Charles Lindbergh, who was an isolationist and in real life had some anti-Semitic beliefs. The thing I like about Crouch's review is that it's not a rant, provocative though it might be. So I think it's similar to his jazz columns in that some readers may have a knee jerk reaction, but it will actually cause them to think and consider a point of view they might not have thought about. Some recent books he likes and mentions briefly are: Links by Nuruddin Farah, Drinking Coffee Elsewhere, Daughter by asha bandele, Interesting Women by Andrea Lee, he mentions Dana Johnson, Barbara Probst Solomon, Susan Minot, Bahrati Mukerjee, et al. A lot of women authors. In the piece on "literary segregation" he names Juneteenth, The Time of Our Singing, Blues and Trouble by Tom Piazza, etc. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 40 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 09:12 pm: |
|
Here's Stanley Crouch's review of "The Plot Against America" by Philip Roth which a friend was nice enough to post on another message board (it's only available to Salon subscribers).
Roth's historical sin In "The Plot Against America," the great novelist imagines a 1940s America devoured by anti-Semitism -- ignoring the brutal anti-black bigotry that actually existed. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Stanley Crouch Oct. 11, 2004 | "Both men continued to swear their innocence, but McDaniels ultimately broke down, his screams sending children scurrying to their mothers' sides. Once he'd confessed to the crime he was shot to death. Townes had his eyes gouged out with an ice pick and then was slowly roasted with the torch until he, too, agreed to confess. When he finally uttered the words the mob wanted to hear, he was doused with gasoline and set afire. Souvenir hunters would fight over severed testicles and strips of barbecued flesh." -- David Levering Lewis, in a 2002 review, quoting Philip Dray from "The Lynching of Black America," where the typical denouement of a double lynching in the Mississippi Delta in 1937 is described. Great artists can commit great sins of monstrous allegiance, of bigotry, of individual cruelty, but they can commit no greater sin than taking on the mantle of Alzheimer's when addressing major periods in American history. I say that because so much of what has become important in American life since the election of John Kennedy is about deepening the quality of national memory. We search through our files, our documents, our newspapers, our diaries and so on, to somehow know who and what we have been and when we were that repugnant or inspirational or duplicitous or confused. Or whatever. I say that because the subject of this essay is Philip Roth, who has committed a highly celebrated sin against history that would mean nothing if he were not one of our greatest writers, a pure flare of talent out of New Jersey. Roth has been at war with stereotypes and the limits of assumed good behavior throughout his career. One could accuse him of thrilling at the idea of shocking the bourgeoisie or being responsible for forcing his public to know what happens when the girls slide out of their panties and the men climb out of their pants. He is our most prominent son of James Joyce, but he has also become one of our most adventurous writers in his last few fiction works. Roth is usually obsessed with the limits and the tears hidden by the compartmentalized aspirations of middle-class Jewish life, the rubber demands of the academy, and the disappointments of wealth and fame as experienced by a writer named Nathan Zuckerman, who critics are always sure is actually Roth himself. Roth is a high-IQ jokester who delivers his punch lines with glass capsules of cyanide. He focuses on tales from below the belt and has always been most interesting, it seems to me, when he has moved into domains other than those in which he grew up or made a living before going on to receive his well-deserved celebration. He has been under attack from the dunderheads of the academy and those who do not have enough literary sense to understand that his politics did not come off the assembly line. Yet he has maintained his integrity by going his own way and taking the lumps that come of maintaining a singular vision. Roth is too intentionally crude for those on the right and too unforgiving of the laughing-gas ideology that those on the left assume should be taken seriously. So what is Philip Roth's great sin and what does it have to do with the material quoted at the beginning of this piece? Simply this: His new novel moves along as though that bestial level of social bigotry was not a highly visible fact of American life at the time that "The Plot Against America" is imagined to have taken place, between 1940 and 1942. "Boo!" some will automatically say because the book has been so vastly praised, but they would not leap so quickly into that camp if they realized just how much the novel is now part of the ongoing complaint that Ralph Ellison raised to the level of masterpiece in "Invisible Man." Roth expects us to believe that the very deep hostility that white Southerners had toward black Americans, a hostility that had been supported by white Northerners either after the end of Reconstruction in 1877 or soon thereafter, would suddenly dissolve and transform itself into anti-Semitism because Lucky Lindy defeated Franklin Roosevelt in 1940. This sort of simplemindedness is unacceptable from a man of Roth's gifts. Had any such thing happened, Jews would have first seen the proverbial handwriting on the wall: They would have begun to notice how much worse things were becoming for Negroes, whose communities would almost surely have been turned into actual ghettos that walled off the black population from the white. Negroes would have needed passes to get out and would have been required to return by a certain hour. One Jewish writer friend of mine says that Roth did not want to complicate what he apparently intended as a reiteration of the old song of Jewish suffering thrust in an American key. Not a good enough reason, if true. No serious writer, in the interest of simplicity, can avoid the heat and weight of a time in the past where he chooses to put his story. Another Jewish writer of Roth's generation recalls that there was always talk during those years of the Negro being "a buffer" between Jews and Christians, and that one could gauge the mood of the country by what was happening to them. Perhaps the most unsettling aspect of Roth's novel is its absurdly reductive vision. By implication, we are given to believe that even if the hysterical racism and violence toward black people had somehow magically disappeared from American life, Negro activists, writers and firebrands such as W.E.B. DuBois, Walter White, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright, Roy Wilkins, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Thurgood Marshall and Charles Hamilton Houston -- all of whom had repeatedly proved their moral courage by standing up to racism through their words or their actions, or both -- would have shuffled off into silence when anti-Semitism was put into policy. This adds an even grimmer substance of insult to this ethnically self-absorbed book. The fulsome praising of this Roth novel is also a commentary on the lack of knowledge of American history by those who consider themselves literary people in our time. How could this book pass everyone at Roth's publisher without the unmentioned smell of burning flesh filling room after room until someone raised a question about the stench for which the novel had cut off its nose in order to avoid acknowledging? Let us be even more blunt: Would there be no protest if a great writer or dramatist or filmmaker were to find a marvelous story about Gypsies in German cities during the mid-1930s and create a work in which the Nazis became so hot at the Gypsies that their plight overshadowed an unmentioned anti-Semitism? There may be an understandable -- however unacceptable! -- reason for this that goes far beyond the limitations of "The Plot Against America." Could it be that because Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, the Rev. Al Sharpton, the bad sportsmanship of too many millionaire black athletes, black street-gang violence, the bullshit scholarship of the worst of black studies, and the decadent, dehumanizing minstrelsy of gangster rap have created such quiet animus in our intellectual community that it is preferable to forget the savage racial history of our nation? I raise that question because in the summer of 2001, The New-York Historical Society presented "Without Sanctuary," a showing of lynching photographs that was the talk of the town, much as a similar show was when it was put on in Manhattan by the NAACP during the 1930s (some were so overwhelmed at the time that they fainted when faced with the unfathomable brutality of public murder). In November of 2002, David Levering Lewis assessed recent studies of lynching for the New York Review of Books. So there was plenty of fresh information about that time period, information that it is hard to believe everyone so easily forgot when reading "The Plot Against America." The most important movement in American fiction, regardless of style, is about moving beyond ethnic provincialism in order to summon a more real and more complex world. In "The Human Stain," Philip Roth hit one out of the park. In this new one, he took to an old American tradition, the segregated baseball team, and became Casey at the Bat. - - - - - - - - - - - - About the writer Stanley Crouch is a New York essayist, poet and jazz critic.
|
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1898 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
|
I dug what Stanley had to say in that review. Especially since I've never been able to muster up a lot of sympathy for Jews because they may get down but they are never out. The thousands of Holocaust survivors here in the United States have fared and thrived so much better than black descendants of the slavery holocaust. For Jews, the holocuast is their hair shirt and they never fail to play the anti-semitic card. Roth's book has an intriguing and inventive premise but it doesn't square with reality, and it certainly exposed the blind side of the white reviewers who reflect white America at large when it comes to acknowledging the lingering spectre of slavery. |
Crystal "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Crystal
Post Number: 171 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 05:36 pm: |
|
Thanks for the article/review Steve. Crouch is right on the money with this one: "Would there be no protest if a great writer or dramatist or filmmaker were to find a marvelous story about Gypsies in German cities during the mid-1930s and create a work in which the Nazis became so hot at the Gypsies that their plight overshadowed an unmentioned anti-Semitism?" Can you imagine the Jewish outcry if this were to happen?
|
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 41 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:42 pm: |
|
Dear Cynique and Crystal, Thank you for your thoughts on the Stanley Crouch essay. I was surprised to see that the Barnes & Noble in my area is carrying his new book. If you ever have a chance to read the essay called "Segregated Fiction Blues" I'd like to hear your thoughts on that one too. The examples he uses for the kind of fiction he likes are The Human Stain by Philip Roth, Caucasia by Danzy Senna, and I'll Take You There by Joyce Carol Oates (haven't read the Oates but it's about an interracial relationship). But it's interesting that the main characters in all three novels "pass" for Jewish. Earlier this year I read an amazing 200-page novel by Caryl Phillips called "The Nature of Blood" which uses the persecution of Jews in 15th century Venice to make a powerful statement about the racism that Othello encounters shortly thereafter. Also read John Edgar Wideman's extraordinary novel "The Cattle Killing" which begins in the present with an author who's written a book called "The Cattle Killing" which quotes a Polish novel, "A Mass for Arras" (by Andrzej Szezypiorski) in epigraph. When I looked it up on Amazon.com I learned that it too is about the witch hunt against the Jews, this time in 15th century Poland. I like these kinds of examples of Black/Jewish solidarity which is why I can feel Crouch's disappointment with this novel. My favorite part is this: "By implication, we are given to believe that even if the hysterical racism and violence toward black people had somehow magically disappeared from American life, Negro activists, writers and firebrands such as W.E.B. DuBois, Walter White, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright, Roy Wilkins, Adam Clayton Powell Jr., Thurgood Marshall and Charles Hamilton Houston -- all of whom had repeatedly proved their moral courage by standing up to racism through their words or their actions, or both -- would have shuffled off into silence when anti-Semitism was put into policy." |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 09:48 pm: |
|
Correction: "A Mass for Arras" is set in 15th century France, not Poland.
|
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1903 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 12:23 pm: |
|
Hi Crystal. I finally finished "The Black Bird Papers," and I'd only give it 2 stars. It was well-written but it was just not that compelling to me; the subject matter was weak and any resemblance between the formulaic plot and plausibility was purely coincidental. But - nowadays what I think about a book should be taken with a grain of salt because very little in the way of fiction stirs my enthusiasm anymore. (And this is not something I'm happy about.) |
Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 897 Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 01:19 pm: |
|
All: I frequently badmouth Stanley Crouch because I find him lazy, contrary and an old mouldy fig. Often he is a bully and a jiggling puppet with bills to pay but from time to time something gets in de ol' Hangin' Judge and he stands up on his hind legs and acts like a man-like he did in the countretemps that got him fired from that Jazz periodical a while ago. He did it in this essay--bully for him. I think that this alliance between blacks and Jews has been illusionary and transitory--during brief periods some blacks and some Jews have worked together for common goals but by no means have the masses of blacks or jews participated in this phenomenon--I remember the story of the Southern Jew who, on hearing the news that "outside agitators" were coming to his town to stir up the nigras went and got his gun too and joined the mob. Problem is whenever anybody brings this up, or the current fights over affirmative action, etc, the ghosts of Goodman and Shwerner are dredged up and one is accused of being an Anti-Semite--by no means by all Jewish people, of course, but by that segment that has decided that they are white and ought to get on the winning team regardless of what this might ultimately mean for them down the line. Now some will insist on an obligatory denunciation of Black anti semitism here and I will vigorously denounce ALL anti semitism--black, white, Christian or Jewish. As Black people we cannot fall into the trap of condemning all of any people for the actions of some of them (how quick I have found even Progressive blacks to start talking about "The Jews"--some Jews engage in frankly anti black behavior but by no means is this a feature of Judaism--it being a religion which I, a black man, could embrace. So on, ad nauseum. I have, in weak moments, fantisized about punching Stanley in the nose for some of the crap he has ladled out--particularly his blanket condemnation of hip hop, which sounds to me like a crabby old man complaining about all that noise, but after this essay in the fantasy I pick him up off the floor and we have a few drinks and laugh it off. |
Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm
Post Number: 2142 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 02:44 pm: |
|
Well, I guess I'll offer a dissenting view. Philip Roth is one of the nation's greatest living authors. His works proffer broadly insightful, provocative and entertain treatise on American cultural phenomena. And he is one of the FEW current White/Jewish authors who has at least tried to provide a nuance view of the African American experience. His "Human Stain" is a riveting offering in that regard (Leave it to Hollywood screwed up the cinematic version of "Stain" by casting Anthony Hopkins and Nicole Kidman in the lead roles). Therefore, notwithstanding the veracity of some of the broader points voiced by (the cantankerous) Crouch, I will reserve my judgment of Roth until AFTER I have had a chance to read his "The Plot Against America". |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1907 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
|
This has nothing to do with Roth's literary skills and prominent stature. It's about the flawed premise of his latest work. You don't have to read the book to know that its a fictional account of how anti-semitism became rampant in America after Charles Linberg defeated FDR for the presidency in 1940, a plot that so obviously ignores the implausibilities that Crouch points out in his insightful review. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 44 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:03 pm: |
|
Abm, I read Stanley Crouch's review first and like you, decided to go ahead and read The Plot Against America anyway because the word of mouth was so good. I agree with your opinion about The Human Stain although I never saw the movie. I would recommend TPAA to you. I enjoyed it. I think Roth's "historical sin" in this novel, to use Crouch's phrase, is one of omission. As a result, the book just strikes me as a wry commentary on Jewish assimilation (which in itself is an interesting topic). Is there any difference between a counterfactual history and an alternative history? I've heard it described as both. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 45 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:25 pm: |
|
Cynique, I finished the Nat Turner book, "The Rebellious Slave: Nat Turner in American Memory" by Scot French. It's an excellent book about the changing meaning of the rebellion throughout American history. The last chapter, about the many reactions to William Styron's novel (and the movie based on it), is a must read. About the only thing it doesn't mention is Cornel West's and Henry Louis Gates's recent reevaluation of Styron's novel and Spike Lee's interest in making a movie based on it. I was surprised that the library here has the Nella Larsen biography. Is the one you read called "Nella Larsen, Novelist of the Harlem Renaissance: A Woman's Life Unveiled" by Thadious M. Davis? I see that the author has also written a book about Faulkner, although I checked and the library doesn't have it. I think I'll tackle her novels first. I agree with you (and Crouch) about the implausibilities of the premise of Philip Roth's new novel, which relates to what I was trying to say about how Caryl Phillips' Othello sees his experience in relation to that of the residents of the Jewish ghetto in Venice. Trying to finish "Runaway America" by David Waldstreicher. |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 46 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:15 pm: |
|
Hey Chris how are you doing? I hear what you're saying and I agree (at least, I think so), but I have a question about something else. In his new introduction to The Man Who Cried I Am, Walter Mosley says: "There are three races present in Max Reddick's world: Whites, Negroes and Jews." How do you interpret that? It's a little unusual. We all know people like Joshua Redman, James McBride (both saxophonists, by the way), and Walter Mosley, who have one Jewish and one Black parent. But Mosley is the only one of the three I've heard talk about the Middle East, in some of the publicity for his book, "What Next?" Not that his opinion would be any different than yours or mine, but do you feel there's any chauvinism in the statement I quoted, specifically in the distinction between whites and Jews? As I remember, there are a number of "good guys" in The Man Who Cried I Am: Lufkin (the Jewish literary agent), O'Brien (the recipient of the literary award who speaks out about the fact that it was denied Harry Ames on account of race), Shea (the journalist who informs Ames about the jury's decision and apologizes to him), and surprisingly, saxophonist Gerry Mulligan (!) who as I remember is mentioned in a positive light in relation to some of the jazz greats. So it's curious to me why, in addition to Jews, Mosley doesn't single out "white people with Gaelic surnames," or some such artificial distinction. Roth's novel describes an urban Jewish community in Newark in 1940 with the outlying areas being "Bundt" territory, with beer gardens, etc. In my lifetime, Jewish people have been completely assimilated into these communities. In the novel Harlem is a black community but in my life, although I haven't lived there since the 1960s, I at least know one black person my own age who lives in Scotch Plains, which I think is one of the suburban Newark towns he mentions. So I don't think the book is a complete waste of time, but I agree with Crouch's opinion. Like you I see myself having a beer with Stanley! To me, moldy fig has a specific meaning, for instance, Downbeat once did a "Blindfold Test" with Eddie Condon in which his reaction to a tune by Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie was something like, "What do they call that, 'Ode to a Toilet Seat'?" That to me is a moldy fig. |
Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1909 Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 08:17 pm: |
|
Steve, yes, the Nella Larsen biography by Thadious Davis is the book I was talking about. Davis is a college profession who received a grant to write the book, I believe. And her book is certainly the definitive account of Larsen's life. Also, in re-examining Styron's Nat Turner book, is the conclusion being reached that it was inaccurate and over-dramatized, and that whites weren't as terrified of him as previously thought?? As for Roth's book, I just happen to read an article that reminded me of how Japanese-Americans were treated during WW II after the attack on Pearl Harbor. These loyal citizens were uprooted from their homes and re-located in detention camps for the duration of the war, and no other minority group raised a voice in protest. So maybe Roth used that as a precedent in penning his novel. Years, later, these Japanese victims did eventually file a class action suit against the U.S. and they or their descendants did receive reparations. And, of course, Pope Pius Xll has been accused of being anti-semitic during the World War ll era because he and the Catholic church never spoke out against the atrocities being practiced against German-Jews during Hitler's reign of terror. Yes, Jews have been despised down through the ages, but I still don't think what Roth portrayed would've happened here in America. Black activists would've protested because they were allied with Jews during this period and the collective black conscious has always kept in mind that what was bad for Jews, would be even worse for Blacks. Presently, however,I don't think Blacks and Jews are bonded any more. They each regard the other with a leery eye. |
Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm
Post Number: 2154 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:32 pm: |
|
There are no permanent friends. There are permanent interests. It ain't even personal. It was our mistake to presume whatever alliance we had with Jews would suffer the torment of time/trials/circumstances, especially considering that we within the Black community are at odds even with what WE should do/be (See the recent Bill Cosby flak for an example.). |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 47 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:58 pm: |
|
Cynique, The Nella Larsen bio, at about 500 pages, is a long one. All I know is that she won a Guggenheim a few years before Zora and then disappeared into obscurity working as a nurse. I'll have to read Quicksand and Passing. I have them in one volume with an interesting introduction which I read at the time I bought it. I forget who wrote it. The analysis of Styron's novel about Nat Turner is interesting because I first read Albert Murray's opinion about it a few years ago in his book "The Omni-Americans," which is a really fantastic collection published in 1970 in which he takes on the social science approach to protest fiction as well as many of the sacred cows of the day. Then I read ZZ Packer's take on it in an online interview and now Stanley Crouch's analysis in his new book. Have you read it? Because I picked up a copy for a dollar a few months ago and I might just read it. Murray's approach was simply that Styron created a Nat Turner that most whites could relate to "at a distance," but with whom most black people could not identify. ZZ Packer said that like almost everyone else, she hated that Styron made Nat Turner's motivation his lust for a young white woman. Otherwise she liked it. Crouch thinks it was scandalously overrated (it won the Pulitzer Prize) but he get in little zingers at the Black nationalists of the time. In the context of his theme, "The Segregated Fiction Blues," he adds that the overreaction to the book by cultural nationalists (and almost every other group, from the sons and daughters of the confederacy to the Klan to the Black Screen Actor's Guild, et al) caused Styron to avoid writing about African Americans and instead choose Jewish characters as in Sophie's Choice. Anyway, I'm not doing it justice so you might want to read the essay for yourself. Scot French, the author of the book I just read, agrees with the author of another recent book on Nat Turner, which is that the document known as the 'Confessions' distorts what actually happened. He fills in the history in detail. You can find some good interview with French and the other author Greenberg at Npr.org on the Tavis Smiley Show. There have been competing interpretations of Nat Turner's rebellion at certain times in history, and in the 1950s a historian named Kenneth Stampp held the view that Nat Turner represented the innate heroism of all enslaved African Americans (I'm giving you an extremely oversimplified description) but another historian named Stanley Elkins disagreed with Stampp's "neo-abolitionist" view and proposed a more psychological interpretation -- that most slaves were under duress and "submissive," in a way that was similar to what Bruno Bettleheim had identified in German concentration camp survivors. Elkins believed that Nat Turner and other revolutionaries were exceptional men whose occupations -- either house servants, preachers, or craftsmen who could be hired out -- gave them some distance from their brethren. I'm not describing it very well, but Styron definitely chose the Elkins model, about which French says "The portrayal of black people as damaged by slavery, once standard liberal fare, now appeared racist and conservative." |
Steve_s Regular Poster Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
|
Cynique, Julie Otsuka's novel "When the Emperor was Divine" tells the story of a Japanese-American family relocated during WWII. I liked it. Roth's novel is a little different but I don't want to give it away. A few years ago I started "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll, which is really about Christianity's historical bias against the Jews. I might have to go back and finish it. I agree with you and Crouch that the Black civil rights leadership of the time would not have stood idly by if what is described in TPAA actually happened. Still, I liked the book. I'm not trying to generalize about anything outside my own experience, however, I think what I pointed out in my literary examples is probably true. A few years ago I read Cornel West and Rabbi Michael Lerner's book, I forget if it's called Jews and Blacks or vice versa. I think it was a good idea but I'm not sure how successful it was. |
|