| Author |
Message |
    
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 585
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 11:54 am: | 
|
Okay I just got this book by Minister Faust (Malcolm Azania) "Coyote Kings of the Space Age Bachelor Pad". Faust/Azania is a Canadian citizen of African Descent (his book is set in Edmonton, Canada.
Is it African American Literature? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 994
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:04 pm: |
|
Chris,
I think the pivotal word here would be "American". If the primary subject matter, plot and theme of the story involve U.S. citizens (or perhaps even legal residents) who have African ancestry, the novel qualifies as African American Literature.
I wonder though, are there such literary genres as African Canadian Literature, African British Literature, African European Literature, etc. et. al.? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 587
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 01:04 pm: |
|
Abm:
The other residents of this Hemisphere have raised this issue: This is the Americas--North American, South American--but we here in the United States of America tend to view ourselves as the only Americans.
Is this even geographically correct--not to mention totally ego and ethnocenric? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
|
Well, Teresa Heinz-Kerry was born on the African continent, and having become a naturalized citizen, she now considers herself an African- American. This seems to be a socio-geographical issue here. I guess if "you pays yer money, you takes yer choice." |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 120
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 08:48 pm: |
|
My thoughts on titles, and who is and who isn't, "this" or "that"
Regardless of what anyones opinion is about her character and motivation, she was still born in Africa and nothing changes that. For whatever silly reason people create more labels, she has just (unfortunately) joined the bandwagon. According to this labeling theory, she is right on point to identify herself as such --she isn't lying ---however, I feel she is using the label in a very.....backhanded way. I don't care for all the titles "African-American", "Irish-American" --or what ever other (fill in the blank)-American people want to be. It causes more division than anything. If you're here enjoying the freedoms, freedoms that wouldn't be tolerated or even the very notion of them entertained in a majority of countries in the world, you're an American, period!
Now, I feel acknowledging ones ancestry through culture, language, faith and traditions is fine, but I also feel that their needs to be an appreciation for having the right to do so. Not many other countries in the world tolerate such liberalism.
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1192
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 11:47 pm: |
|
OK, Wisteria. How's this? Yawnnnnnnnnn. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1194
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 12:04 am: |
|
Oops. Got the name wrong. Now where was I. OK, Miss Hysteria - um I mean Miss Wysteria. How's this? Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1195
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 12:22 am: |
|
That's wasn't nice was it? I take it back, Miss Wysteria. Actually I don't care what Teresa Heinz Kerry jokingly calls herself. I was just making an observation. Labels are not important to me. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 740
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 12:38 am: |
|
CH: I have my own interpretation on this...the book can be considered African American if your purely dealing w/geography. The US is in North America, ie the Americas...only US people are selfish enough to claim a continental identity! A colleague of mind calls African Americans--Afri-US, since it situates us in this country.
Heinz is a colonizer, in my opinion...These labels are geo-political identities.
Moonsigns: Why does hyphenated American identities cause divisions?
Does using the hyphen mean you're anti-US?
Difference doesn't mean division or conflict!
If you want to know why we often disagree, it is NOT because you are white. It is, on the other hand, because I'm a humanist, but I embrace difference not only in humanity in general but among different groups("racial" and cultural). You will embrace the diversity of humanity, but rarely socalled "racial groups" and cultural groups. You constantly like to "transcend" race, but you tend to mythologize this country, and consequently, often paint a picture like this country has done right by black folk...any history book or a person over 50 will tell YOU thats a "damn lie," and if u read the studies i've cut and pasted...this country is resegregating!
With your transcendence method, you place us all in the same boat...the boat is the same but treatment,experiences, values are different...and these differences contribute to our experiences and the texture and character of our culture...You seem to want everyone to be "American." This is not to say that there is not common culture we share, but it is really a white one...should i embrace this? Or a democratic one, where all groups are welcomed?
I am a US citizen, and I am Afri-US. The former tells my nationality, the latter my cultural group(ethnic group within the African world). Finally, my people enjoy freedoms that they fought for and still fighting for, so since we are culturally distinctive and fought for our particular rights, we have the right to call ourselves whatever we want! In the final analysis, being an Irish-American or African-American only creates identifies a person's cultural roots, cuisine, customs, values, etc... |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 635
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:34 am: |
|
Miss Wysteria,
Now I got a deep fryer and I went to the store and got plenty of cooking oil, so where do you want me to set it up so that you can fry your fish here?? 
STAY!! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 636
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 01:35 am: |
|
I'm sorry===what I meant to say was Please STAY |
Bmcn
Newbie Poster
Username: Bmcn
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |
|
Gosh, Miss_wysteria, just let us know how you really feel. Girl, you're too reserved, cryptic. I just wish you'd put it out there so no doubt is left as to how you feel about whatever.
Here's a general question for anyone. Aren't you saddling ourselves in perpetual victimhood if you complain about what "they do?" and "we don't?" As an example, pay tribute to an unknown, possibly non-existent ancestor?
(Quick digression. I was at lunch one day with an acquantance. A light-skinned, blonde black lady uttered something when her food came. She laid out a portion of expensive food to the side at a empty place setting, mumbling louder. I looked at her. She looked at me. A minute passed before she said with showy flair: "For my spirits of my dead ancestors. I pay tribute to all that preceded me. They dine with me. I am a daughter of Africa."
I looked at her empty place setting, then glance to the window at a homeless guy loitering outside. I said: "What are thier names?" She looked with a blank stare, moving her lips, not speaking.)Eventually, the woman called me an Uncle Tom for questioning her.
There is a point to this recollection. It is related to victimhood.
Contrary to some, I do not feel black people are
inherently dumb -- we just choose to 'cut the fool' at times. Those who know a different path, should set the course. If the cuttin' fool chooses to define their life within the confines of Rickie Lake's moronic world view, them the onus falls back on them.
BMCN |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 127
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 03:09 pm: |
|
miss wysteria,
It is unjust for you to say that black men and women who birth biracial/multiracial children aren't procreating their "own image", birthing something that belongs to them and loves them unconditionally. Also, it is a dishonor for you to suggest that black women who choose non-black men think like slaves. You don't know every, or even most black women who interracially date/marry/procreate. You don't live day in and day out with these people and you aren't their God. Those comments are just ignorant and distasteful!
America sure doesn't have it all together, however, one of the best things about this country is that we are growing to accept that love should be honored, no matter who it is shared between. If you want to do your African thing, do it, but stop trying to act as if everyone who doesn't is some heathen and some victim of self-hate. There is a fine line between learning from the past and repeating it. America is about progression, not regression.
You know, I respect you trying to connect and strengthen your community, but it doesn't come at the expense of killing others communities --whether it be physically or spiritually --easy on that!!!!!!!! Kill is a very, very strong word!
Not every white person is the enemy. Futhermore, if you war with the same heart, mind and soul of those who oppress you, you are NO better! You will become, if you haven't yet, the very thing you say you despise.
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 743
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 04:58 pm: |
|
moonsigns:
"If you want to do your African thing, do it, but stop trying to act as if everyone who doesn't is some heathen and some victim of self-hate."
Is this not a case when you're tellin folk what to do? Why should 'MW' stop callin folk heathens? That is her opinion, NO?
There is a difference between tellin folk what to do, as you seem to do here, and providing an alternative/opposing opinion!
At what point will you confront what the studies show, that the US is about "regression."
Also, again, how do hyphenated US citizens cause divisions?
Is it somehow unpatriotic? |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 129
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 05:15 pm: |
|
Yukio,
I know you read the posts above and I know you read how she used the word "kill" --sorry, I don't take that lightly. It's all good when people celebrate what they want, but when you talk about killing people, be it spiritual or physical, that's wrong. Do your thing, whatever that may be --however, your right ends when it infringes on the rights of others. I didn't tell her to stop voicing her opinion, however, she must look at what she is writing. She wants freedom, rightfully so, but will use the same method of her oppressors --the very ones whose methods she is fighting against, to get hers --that is what is wrong to me. Call me a heathen and self-hater all you want because I don't think like you, but to say you will cause my body and spirit to cease from living for your belief is a whole other thing --no way. All humans deserve to respectfully live/say what they choose without destroying anothers person right. When you cross that line, your wrong, no matter what you think and no matter who you are.
The concept of hyphenated US citizens, to me, is just like the social contruct of race. It is yet another tool to divide. |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 07:25 pm: |
|
Hello All,
Pardon me, but getting back to Chris's original question, what is African-American Literature; I have to say that it is literature written by and/or about black folks. AA Lit has the same topics, categories, depth, etc as any other literature. The difference is that AA lit is rooted in the AA society, history, attitudes, culture, et al that stems from our lives here in America.
Can an AA author write a book that could be classified as non-AA literature? Sure. The vise versa can be true as well. I would not say that AA lit has rigid, definitive borders. |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 230
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 07:34 pm: |
|
Hello All,
Oh, yeah, I forgot... I'm back!! I've been keeping up with what's been going on the board as well. *eyebrow raised* Folks that ain't suppose to be here need to leave.
Moonsigns: You are indeed more than welcome to post on AALBC boards. It doesn't matter what color your skin is. I can honestly say that I wasn't surprised by your revelation. I just didn't want to bust you out. I do have to say that after reading all of your posts, I have to agree with something my Ol' Grayhead have been saying for years and years when it comes to talking race relations with people that are not black. I know see his point. |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 133
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 09:04 pm: |
|
Thank you Thumper. I never had any intention of keeping it a secret --there is no need for that. I knew it would surface and it did in it's own time. I do like your forums. Poetry is what brought me here.
I won't stay for long though. Thanks for allowing me to share thus far. |
Bmcn
Newbie Poster
Username: Bmcn
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:03 pm: |
|
Well, Thumper, personally speaking, I would have answered the original question except I decided to help get stop them sharp heels from connecting on someone's head. Ms wysteria is very well spoken -- I happen to disagree but who cares? The sister is dynamic. I respect that and her children are blessed to have a mother such as she.
Anyway, I've always believed that a black writer can write something other than so-called African American literature. Frank Yerby pops into my head, as an example. The more I live though, the more I crave a world where such lables aren't as important. But, such is life. It happens that in large measure, as a writer I don't really set the agenda. The classifying is not left to me.
Thumper, good to have you back, sir.
Bmcn |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 748
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 11:03 pm: |
|
moonsigns: I hear u. For some of us however, this is a war. In my opinion, for example, to assimilate would be to kill me and my people.
Regarding your comment about hyphenated US identities, I still don't understand.
YOu have identified that it is a "tool to divide," but you haven't explained how or why it divides and what it divides exactly.
Race is a social contruct...there is no scientific research that suggests there are differences between groups that constitute actual racial differences.
BUt african americans as a cultural group with the U.S. is REAL. We are a cultural group; we have our own artforms, cuisines, religious practices, etc...that if different from other US citizens. This culture is the result of our lived experience in the North America and our cosmological ingredients from the continent. This is very REAL...the ebonics that u called slang can be traced to african languages...not the vocabulary but the structure and syntax...
We are distinct from Irish Americans; they are distinct from Italians Americans--none of this precludes folk from seving their country, paying taxes, etc... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 08:16 am: |
|
Chris,
I apologize for not more promptly addressing the last questions you asked me. But this thing expanded into something else so quickly that I kinda got confused.
But anyway...
Yes, I suppose I agree we are a bit self-centered in our labeling. Because an accurate description of "America" does include more than simply that which is circumscribed by the U.S. However, "Descendants of the African Slave Trade By Way Of The United States of Central North America" Literature would be a bit 'cumbersome'...don't you think? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 08:24 am: |
|
...So, I guess I would say we should not trouble ourselves too much with labels. Because after a while, it can get a little ridiculous.
Because as the world people/cultures blend together, it become more difficult to apply pat classifications to all aspects of our lives, including art/literature/culture.
Consider the following: IL Democratic nominee for the US Senate Baraka Obama is not a 'traditional' African American in the sense that his ancestors WERE NOT American slaves?
Thus, is he a 'true' African American? |
Bleekindigo
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 79
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
|
African American Literature: I've always believed that African American Lit was a lit written by and about the African American and the AA culture and so I would not classify Minister Faust's writing as African American because he is Canadian.
I have heard the anti-label argument before. I might have even been one of the disputants. Now though, as I read the posts, I find myself wondering how are we as people in general to define ourselves if not by labels on some level?
Have "labels" become so dreadful? What's wrong with someone considering themselves an African American-feminst-Lesbian or an American-Irish Mother and activist or Christian-womanist...
Moonsigns, I too wonder why you consider folks' identifying themselves, "labels", "titles" devices of devision as apposed to celebration of differences.
A woman who is an Asian-American-mother-sister-daughter-teacher-counselor-friend- is titled, labeled and hyphenated. She wears these hats--what is the dilemma in this?
Bleek-
|
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 03:54 pm: |
|
All this week-end, Chicago is hosting its annual Jazz Fest. I find it very interesting that sooo many of the musicians appearing on the rostrum are white. Jazz originated with black people, it grew out of the black experience, but now has been infiltrated, almost co-opted by white artists. And they are very good exponents of this genre. One white guy who is appearing on the program is one of the best scat singers I've ever heard. So what do we make of this? I suppose we deduce that jazz is not about race but is, by its very nature, about abstract expression, about improvisation and virtuosity. Can we apply this to literature, - to whether a white author can write fiction about black people if the story deals with struggles that depict a triumph of the human spirit? Maybe. Maybe not. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 479
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 04:10 pm: |
|
I doubt it seriously, Cynique. A white person might be able to pick an instrument and in time learn to imitate a black person's mastery of that instrument. But as far as the spoken and/or written word, it is by a white person's very nature to be racist sooner than later. Eventually, somewhere they will show there true self and that heir of superiority will come out. No offense to the Moongoddess, but even with her even-tempered, moon-lovin', got me a strong black man-mentality, racist emotions eventually showed through. A trusted older man told me that "you can always make friends with 'em but don't ever turn your back on 'em cuz eventually, ole mass'll show his face." Now, I believe that a white person could write a decent book about AA culture if they write it from a white person's perspective instead of trying to write how an AA feels or what an AA experiences. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1221
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 04:47 pm: |
|
Well, Lambd, I don't think white jazz musicians are really imitating black ones when it comes to playing an instrument. They may have stolen the concept of jazz but not the ability to execute it. The fact that a jazz musician will never play a song the same way twice is an indication that jazz is a lot about impromptu variations on a theme. I don't think this way of interpreting a song is exclusive to any one race. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 484
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 05:21 pm: |
|
Sorry, Cynique, I hear what you're saying, however, that's exactly what I meant. They can imitate the stylings. Whites will make variations to jazz, but the style is all ours. Listen to your white boys again with your eyes closed. Do you stil see white men playing the instruments? The style is undeniably black, I'm sure. The only reason it is not exclusive to any one race is because whites can attempt to copy the style.
I was at the Jazz festival in Chicago in '81 or '82. There were a few good white groups. I knew the infusion of whites would be coming then. Christina Aguilera did some jazz scatting the other night on TV. She was performing with Nelly, believe it or not. They were good. Even though she is very light and has bleached her hair, I think she is latino. Anyway, go and listen to your white Jazz musicians and dream of Viggo. I can't fault you for what you like. A_woman says, 'it is what it is.' Maybe I've been punk'd again. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1223
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 05:51 pm: |
|
The only people who can really judge jazz musicians are their peers, And black jazz musicians have always given props to deserving white ones, even hiring them to be sidemen in their combos. They've praised artists like saxophonists Paul Desmond, trumpet-player Chet Baker, saxophonist Stan Getz, drummer Gene Krupa, guitarist Django Reinhardt, clarinetist Benny Goodman just to name a few. Even Wynton Marsalis has acknowledged outstanding white jazz artists. So, tell me, are you also of the opinion that black pianists can't play Mozart or Beethoven? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 485
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
|
Wow! Where did that come from? You took what I said to an entirely different level. This is indeed a strange forum. Did I say something to the effect that white jazz musicians weren't good? Did I say anything about black musicians not being alble to play anything? Blacks are and always have been the premiere musicians of the world. They can play everything. If that isn't clear enough for you, Yes they can play Mozart and Beethoven. Also, I think I said before that I witnessed some good white jazz musicians in my lifetime. How that got confused I have no idea. People on this site have an uncanny nack of finding controversy where there is none. I think I can judge jazz musicians as I have always been a fan. I have an extremely accomplished brother so music has always been in my life. I have an appreciation for all music. So to say that only musicians can judge is like saying only whites can judge whites or only basketball players can judge Kobe. Can only poets judge Viggo when he writes his poems? I give props to white musicians and always have. I think you read into my post. I think if you read again you will find that I witnessed some good white jazz groups in the early 80's. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1225
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 06:39 pm: |
|
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you just posted. It didn't sound like you were giving white jazz musicians credit to me.
"Sorry, Cynique, I hear what you're saying, however, that's exactly what I meant. They can imitate the stylings. Whites will make variations to jazz, but the style is all ours. Listen to your white boys again with your eyes closed. Do you stil see white men playing the instruments? The style is undeniably black, I'm sure. The only reason it is not exclusive to any one race is because whites can attempt to copy the style."
Let's just agree to disagree, Lambd.
|
|
Email This Page