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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 546
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:27 am: | 
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The below will appear in Sisters Nineties magazine this fall:
Chris Hayden
3502 Palm Pl.
St. Louis, MO 63107-2519
314-533-0525
belsidus2000@yahoo.com
If It Ain't Speculative and It Ain't Fiction Need Black Folks Read
Speculative Fiction?
DARK MATTER: READING THE BONES
Edited by Sheree R. Thomas
Warner Books, Inc. 416 Pages, 2004
It distresses me when I can grant only qualified approval such an ostensibly worthy effort as Dark Matter: Reading the Bones, the second anthology from Editor Sheree R. Thomas that is intended to introduce the reading public to the works of speculative fiction by African American Writers.
Speculative fiction is the term coined in the '60s by New Wave Science Fiction Writers led by Harlan Ellison to differentiate their writings, which combined the conventions of science fiction with up to date literary techniques and a counter cultural political and social consciousness, from the garden variety Gosh Wow gadget and techno fetishistic (and often politically and socially conservative) science fiction published by Hugo Gernsback in the 20's (in his Amazing Stories, the first publication devoted only to what he called “scientifiction” ) and nurtured by John W. Campbell, author and editor for years of the most influential magazine in the field Astounding (which became Analog), in the 40's and 50's.
Today in some circles speculative fiction means horror, supernatural and fantasy fiction as well: it might simply be any story or book whose premise proceeds from a question which begins, "What if--?"
"What if people could come back from the dead?" (Premise of a horror or supernatural story). "What if magic worked?" (Premise of a fantasy tale).
"What if people could travel to distant stars?" (Premise for the interstellar space travel/sci fi story).
Horror, supernatural and fantasy are as old as humanity, old as myth. Science fiction is of newer vintage; some trace it to the account of Ezekiel and the Wheel in the Hebrew Bible, others to the tales of the Greek Lucian of Samosata (125 AD), but most historians of science fiction will mark 1818, the date of the first publication of the novel Frankenstein by Mary Shelly as the birth date of science fiction.
Until recently writers, editors, fans and publishers believed that African Americans did not read speculative fiction. In large part this is probably because, as John Clute wrote in Science Fiction: The Illustrated Encyclopedia (1995) with regard to sci fi, "the genre was not designed to be written or read by the Dispossessed." They may also have believed that because, though Africans told myths and tales of Gods and heroes, and African Americans have had a lively folk tradition, until recently few African Americans authors have specialized in writing it.
The publishing industry was stuck in its own dead zone with regard to black readers until the publication of Alice Walker's The Color Purple (1983) and Terry
McMillan's Waiting to Exhale (1990) awakened them to the existence of a large and robust black reading public.
The only black speculative fiction author of note until then was Samuel R. Delaney; his work was so race neutral and he was so faceless to the public at large few even knew he was black. Following the above developments Stephen Barnes and Olivia Butler broke out in the 80's, followed by Tananarive Due and Nalo Hopkinson in the 90's.
The works of these five authors, who are still the major African American speculative fiction writers, won awards and made bestseller lists, they gave interviews and appeared at Sci Fi and Fantasy conventions. At the same time black readers and fans started attending fan meetings organized by whites and held their own (such as the Black to the Future Convention held June 11-13, 2004 in Seattle). African American Spec Fiction web discussion groups such as Sci Fi Noir, Sci Fi Noir Lit and Afro futurism came online, where Blacks revealed that they liked Spider-man, Star Wars, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Stargate, The X Files, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings but that they want to see and read more stuff like Spawn, Blade, Static and A Vampire in Brooklyn.
Yet still the field continued to present, for the most part, in the words of John Clute " a vision that was not aimed at black readers" that was "propagandizing for one small interest group, the affluent whites."
Then came Dark Matter: The Anthology of Science Fiction, Fantasy and Speculative Fiction by Black Writers (2000) edited by Sheree R. Thomas.
That volume was ground breaking and eye opening, it included work by those specializing in the genre, plus stories and essays by established writers not really known for working in the field such as W.E.B. Du Bois, George R. Schuyler, Walter Mosley, Amiri Baraka, and Kalamu Ya Salaam; work by writers who should have long been included in the canon, such as Henry Dumas and Ishmael Reed; and it introduced us to new talents like Jewell Gomez, and forgotten authors like Charles R. Saunders, who had published Black sword and sorcery during the 1970's.
I can give Dark Matter: the Reading of the Bones: (hereinafter referred to as Dark Matter 2) an “A” for effort. But the stories here range, according to Lenora Rose in the online Green Man Review "from breathtakingly good to shockingly mediocre."
Why? I submit that the flaw is inherent in the substance of speculative fiction itself.
Let me admit here that my hands are not clean; I have written speculative fiction: comic books, several such stories in Cecil Washington's Creative Brother's Sci Fi Magazine-- to my knowledge the only magazine solely devoted to Black Speculative Fiction--and a novel Vampyre Blues: The Passion of Varnado, an African American Vampyre Romance, which is due out in October.
I will further admit that, for a number of reasons, the only form that I have found as hard to write is poetry.
Still, as the young folks say, I " got beef" with speculative fiction.
For one it ain't Speculative It is a category of genre fiction and as an editor in the field is alleged to have told a wannabe writer, the fans "say that want new material, but what they really want is more of the same ol’ thing." The beasties and things that go bump in the night that we have learned to laugh at in movie and TV parodies populate horror fiction. Supernatural fiction is scary but not too scary, more Stephen King style American Horror-Lite than real, mind rotting nightmare spawning horror (then again, what could be more awful than The Middle Passage, Slavery, Segregation, the A-Bomb, genocide, AIDS, etc) For all the prognosticate boasting of science fiction it has not predicted much that real scientists had not already discovered when the stories were written. Either it was wrong (use of copper to produce nuclear energy) or it contained, even in your typical so called “hard “science fiction story, less information than that contained in any paragraph on a scientific subject in the World Book Encyclopedia.
Science Fiction writers editors and fans, who have an emotional and financial stake in the matter, often promote sci fi as a miracle stimulant that will induce and empower readers to embark on careers in science.
Alas, anyone who wants to be a scientist must still study the subject in school (something one suspects that your sci fi fan would find intolerable), or study the life, works, career and writings of a real scientist, such as Dr. Shirley Ann Jackson, African American, who among other things is "interested in the electronic, optical, magnetic and transport properties of novel semiconductor systems” and who is also interested in "quantum dots, mesoscopic systems, and the role of antiferromagnetic fluctuations in correlated 2D electron systems"—I wonder how many winners of the Hugo, Nebula and
John W. Campbell Awards (top Science Fiction awards) would even know what she is talking about!
Perhaps they someday a scientist will develop a "mind helmet" that can make someone a scientist in his sleep. Until then most of them will only wonder, "What if--?"
And speculative fiction ain't fiction--good fiction, anyway. For every Ursula K. LeGuin there are hundreds and hundreds of untalented hacks, who write hackwork because they have schooled and immersed themselves in penny-a-word hackwork of their Spec Fiction predecessors instead of good literature. One can tell many of the writers in Dark Matter 2 worship at the altar of Olivia Butler, Tananarive Due and Nalo Hopkinson. As the young folks say, "they cool." But their models were Isaac Asimov and Stephen King and Dean Koontz--fine and successful producers of commercial fiction they may be nobody would confuse them with James Joyce or Henry James. Like commercial artists take for models Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta rather than DaVinci, Van Gogh, Dali or Picasso (or Jacob Lawrence, John Biggers or Ronald Herd) they are not going to the source.
New Black writers of speculative fiction should read Delaney, Butler, Barnes, Due, and Hopkinson but should idolize Hurston, Wright, Ellison and Baldwin. As Stephen Barnes himself once advised some writers you should read at least one level above the one at which you want to write.
Dark Matter 2 is Black; I'll give it that. The writers are improvising and extrapolating on African and African American cultural tropes and themes.
I expected, perhaps unfairly, he work of black writers, to paraphrase the ungrammatical introduction of William Shatner to the original Star Trek TV program, "boldly going where no black writers have gone before" to be groundbreaking, life changing; the equivalent of Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie birthing Be Bop or the most surreal parts of Native Son, Invisible Man, Beloved all rolled into one.
To send black mind streaking ahead of the Years Best Science Fiction or Year’s Best Fantasy anthologies like Marian Jones at warp speed. To make my soul do the boogaloo on da moon. To at least be straight up scandalous.
Dark Matter 2 was not all that. It was disappointing that Ms. Thomas had to jump in the Wayback to find my favorite story here, Samuel R. Delaney's excellent "Corona"—a story about a little black girl driven mad by her own telepathic powers—(first published in 1967).
There are good reasons for this. African American speculative fiction is in its infancy. African Americans who write only spec fiction are few, so unlike white collections, that have hundreds of published works from dozens of books and magazines to pick from, Dark Matter 2 had to include works of unproven quality published for the first time, which hurt its overall quality.
I can hear now the wailing and gnashing of teeth of some misguided black speculative fiction fans, who ought to get a life, wailing, if Dark Matter 2 does not do well (copies of Dark Matter 1, without doubt a groundbreaking volume, were going at a recent book fair for $2 a pop) that blacks do not "get" it.
They need to, as the young folks say, "take a chill pill". Speculative fiction accounts, at most, for seven percent of book sales. Few people of any race have a desire or a need to "get" it.
If we are what we eat, we are what we read. Books are spiritual food, just as one should eat nourishing food one should read books that nourish strengthen the reader. Speculative fiction is escape. Speculative fiction is entertainment. It is candy.
Stimulating candy at times, but just like sugary sweets, it does not stick to the ribs, build strong nourishing spirits.
As magic the spec fiction mojo is weak and short-lived. I would here argue that the readers of Sisters Nineties have visited the Physicists of the African Diaspora website, the African Americans in The Sciences website, have read of the lives of George Washington Carver and Lincoln I Digguid, a local black scientist featured in the St. Louis Post Dispatch Wednesday, February 14, 2001.
They have read Mumbo Jumbo, Songs of Enchantment, Love, and All Stories are True. They can see the fantasy of The American Dream or horror in the inner city streets or the television reports from Iraq.
They, like the Sankofa bird, know where they have been and where they are going.
Whatever there is to "get" without doubt they done already "got" it and gone.
Copyright Chris Hayden 2004
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 665
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 08:01 pm: |
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ch: there are a few grammatical errors in your review. interesting review. I wished for you to address one of the stories that was good and representative of those that were "good/ok" and another that was generally representative of the weakness in the collection.
congrats on the publication. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 549
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
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Yukio:
I will yield to you that a weakness of the above "review" which otherwise oozes with excellence, is that I did not discuss in depth the works in Dark Matter 2. For that reason I called it a Jihad and for that reason Debra Morrow Loving, the editor of Sisters Nineties and her staff declined to call it a review although they did run it.
But you did miss wherein I singled out "Corona" by Samuel R. Delaney, as the story I liked best in the book. Until I read that I thought that his short story, "Aye and Gomarrah" was the best ever written in Sci Fi, but this one is at least as good.
I did not want to point out a story that was "the worst". I did not feel that I could do so.
A big problem in doing a review on an anthology is that you have 20-30 separate works and authors to address instead of one. You are limited by time and space to give only cursory mention or the review is far too long.
What made "Corona" so good? It was that mix of good writing, use of sci fi convention and blend of details from his own life or the life of someone else that made it good. The work Delaney was doing in this period often had mixed in actual incidents he experienced or stories from people he had talked to or characters based on people he had talked to, bumming around the country, hanging in the streets. In this story he used the subject of telepathic powers, by 1967 a cliche, and examined them in a totally new way. What if you could read minds, but you had absolutely no control over the minds you read, in other words what if all these thoughts pounded into your head 24/7 from other people? What if you not only shared their good thoughts but their awful ugly ones? Delaney also explored human bonding and sympathy in it |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 667
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:32 am: |
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chrishayden: Yes, it was a bit of a jihad, which is why I thought it would be useful for you to discuss of the stories that was representative of these writers' need to read "at least one level above the one at which you want to write."
Also, I didn't miss your comment on "Corona." It is a mention not an analysis. I understand, it is difficult to do a review of an anthology; i recently had to conquer a similar beast.
Again, congrats w/the publication, brotha.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 820
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:45 pm: |
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Chris,
It is interesting that you say Speculative Fiction is created via the perspective of the writer addressing fantastical "What if..." questions. I read that Stephen King says he has always written his book from ‘that’ perspective. Moreover, he believes that rather than focusing initially upon characters, plot and theme, he finds if you start from "What if...", all other important elements of writing will more naturally ensue.
That is a fine article. Though I wonder whether those who read will already have some interest in and knowledge of the genre. If they do, kewl. If not, they might struggle a bit with all of the detail you generously provide. Thus, I wonder if this was written for the uninitiated, perhaps it should have been written in 2 parts instead of one, so that it could be more easily digested. And that might allow you to expend more time in areas that the read might consider more important and interesting.
Thanks for sharing your published works. Cuz man, it must be excruciating to do that up in hur.
Yukio,
I get your point. But seriously dude, I can find grammar miscues in a post-graduate book on English Literature. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 668
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 03:58 pm: |
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abm: yes. there are miscues in post-grad. eng. books. Question: On another thread u said that people "often" misunderstand me...it seems u have. I wonder why you believed that i was making a "point"? Seriously, was it your impression? the tone? what exactly?
my purpose:
considering the possibility it may not have gone to press, i believed he could proof it a few times...
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 851
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:08 pm: |
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Yukio,
Don't quite follow. Did I say I was being misunderstood? If so, please direct me to the thread and I will try address your point. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 671
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:37 pm: |
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abm: let me try to help. There is no point. only questions. I'm attempting to find out why u sometimes mischaracterize my posts. Here is an opportunity.
No, u didn't say that U were being misunderstood. U said, i was:
"And don't you find it odd that you OFTEN have a problem with others fully understanding and appreciating the points you are trying to make?"
So I'll asked:
"On another thread u said that people "often" misunderstand me(yukio)...it seems u(abm) have. I wonder why you believed that i was making a "point"? Seriously, was it your impression? the tone? what exactly?"
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 853
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:38 am: |
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Yukio,
Honestly, if I knew the answer to your questions, you would have no reason to ask them, as it certainly is not my intent to do such.
However, I will say this: I seldom have this particular problem with the other posters. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 374
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 08:26 am: |
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Hmmmmmm. Seldom have this problem with the other posters....Hmmmmmmm.
Yukio, get out your catcher's mitt and a step ladder, cuz I'm bout to throw my two cents in and I don't want it to go over your head.
Abm is not the first person to say this to you. Don't you think that there may be something to what he is saying? Personally, I believe that I get most of what you post. Sometimes I do have to reread it though. Between looking up the big azz words you use and the type-o's, sometimes I gotta read it three times. It helps to proofread your posts, but you can't do it immediately after you write it. Take a second to look away from the screen before you proof it. If you are proofing your own work, (which writer's should never do, but for this forum you have to), and you reread what you just wrote, what you mean to say is still too fresh in your head and doesn't exactly match what you have actually written. I've had students read to me what they have written and as they read along they are inserting words that are not on the paper without realizing it. That's because when you read what you have just written, you already know what you mean to say so your brain makes the adjustments automatically. Haven't you ever read something that you wrote and found errors, and you think, "That's not what I thought I wrote at all. How did I make such a mistake?" That's because your brain, especially YOUR BRAIN, will always be much faster than your fingers....Got that, Brainboy? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 673
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
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lambd: gotcha. no disagreement, here.
Consider, lambd, that u claim to "get most" of what I post, but at NO point have I disagreed w/ abm's insights. So, why do u seem to think that i do? Again, I've only asked questions...are U reading into my posts?
What is missing in your correct contribution, here, is the question of the interpretation that the reader brings to the text. You assessment only includes the writer. both reader and writer are implicated.
With that said, lambd, since u're putting your 2 cents in, why don't u and abm return to my question(s)that he believes the doen't have answers to:
(1)yukio says:
"there are a few grammatical errors in your review." (no big azz words, no typos).
(2)abm says:
"I get your point. But seriously dude, I can find grammar miscues in a post-graduate book on English Literature."
Now, my question to the 2 of u is:
What in statement (1) leads abm to say (2), "I get your point. But seriously dude, I can find grammar miscues in a post-graduate book on English Literature."
In, otherwords, what point does ABM get? Because I wasn't making any point. There was no attempt to debate, nothing to get "seriously" about, etc...NOw, I presume abm will do the "lighten up" bit, but please get around to answering my question(s).
*My intent, btw, was simply to suggest that chrishayden could proof read once more, IF the jihad/reciew had not gone to press. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 375
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
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Yukio: The reader not getting the gist of what the writer means should almost always, always be a given. It is up to the writer to make the reading of his material as simple as possible. The reasons for this are as follows:
a)one can never take for granted the reading and/or comprehension level of the reader,
b)one can never take for granted the craft of written communication
c)the onus of any successful communication is on the sender.
Communication, be it written, visual, or audible is made up of a message, a medium for that message to be sent, and the comprehension of said message. If that message is not understood in the manner in which the sender intended then the communication has failed. The sender would have to either try again, with either the message or the medium slightly altered, or can the message altogether...Not trying to sound educated, because half the time I don't know what I'm talking about and the other half I'm just guessing. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 675
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:49 pm: |
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lambd: No disrepeact. but i've stated much of what u've stated(though differently) in both posts, elsewhere, many, many, many times. I even agree, partially w/what u are saying, but my initial query was never about a general discussion of communication.
It was about my comment to chrishayden, and abm's comment to me...thats it. both of our comments are here to address, but for whatever reason we're talking about a rather general subject as it pertains to me being misunderstood. However, interesting, it avoids the particulars.
Also, I'm not trying to debate with u on the nature of sender/receiver communication; Instead, I'm asking u and abm to answer my questions. It is only right, for while I have addressed yours.
SO, if u care to answer the question(s), which are laid out my post earlier this afternoon, please do. If you are not willing or interested in addressing my questions, then say so....and we can return to this question of the nature of discussion, and I can address how u and I differ. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 854
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
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Yukio,
I can't speak for Lambd (neither can he, actually...but I digress). But it is not that I don't want to engage you. It's just that there is often too much 'confusion' and too little 'closure' to our discussions. But all I was saying that although you may have correctly observed some grammar miscues in Chris' article, why bother citing such when almost EVERYTHING I see has such errors.
Besides, I guess it is to me, in part, a matter of courtesy. Chris didn't ask for a grammar critique. He was generous enuff to share some of his writing with us. So, that situation, the last thing I'd do is sweat the small stuff.
But hey...maybe that's just me. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 385
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:22 pm: |
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Sorry, Yukio, as usual, I can only comment on what I know...and what I know aint much. I thought
there was a need because there seemed to be some confusion about why you are 'misunderstood' so much on the Board...At least that's what I thought we were talking about, I've been wrong before, I might be wrong again. My very uneducated guess is this:
a)sometimes you write over many people's heads, (therefore I suggest something like making your posts as simple as possible),
or, b)you may want to look away from the screen a sec before you proofread.
Both are suggestions that I very sincerely thought might be helpful, but of course I don't know Jack from Jill so I'll just do like A_woman keeps telling me and "Shaaaaaaaddddduuuuppppppp!"
Oh! and as far as addressing any status quo that you and the other Big-Brained-Brother are talking about is way outta my league. Sooo....carry on. I probably should have kept my head in the sand and added three pennies to my two cents and bought some nickel candy!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 859
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
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Lambd,
If you had any doubts before, I'll bet you get my drift NOW...don't you?
HAHA! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 682
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:20 am: |
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abm:
Let me say thank u firstly. Secondly, i'll end w/this post, for it seems to have solicted more trouble than it is worth. and much more than i know seems to be going on. I was only asking a question(s)...I asked the question for 2 reasons: (1) u said that folk often misunderstood me, and (2) I thought your response to my statement was a case of such a misunderstanding, so I asked u why did u make the comment to understand your reasoning/logic.
In response to my simple innocent sentence, your statements, as I initially thought and u have confirmed, presupposed debate.
No debate was intended. You suggested that there was a point I was making, but you were the only one making a point.
Ironically, I thought I was being helpful.
Again, thank u....it is certainly interesting what we see/read into others' words.
-----------------------------------------
lambd: no. The socalled "misunderstanding of yukio" was the preface/background/introduction to the specific question of why ABM would respond to my statement to chrishayden: "there are a few grammatical errors in your review," with the statements, "I get your point. But seriously dude, I can find grammar miscues in a post-graduate book on English Literature."
The reasoning of his statements involved: "But all I was saying that although you may have correctly observed some grammar miscues in Chris' article, why bother citing such when almost EVERYTHING I see has such errors" and "Besides, I guess it is to me, in part, a matter of courtesy. Chris didn't ask for a grammar critique. He was generous enuff to share some of his writing with us. So, that situation, the last thing I'd do is sweat the small stuff."
None of his statements are/were compatible w/my intent...it doesn't seem it was "big azz words" nor typos...whatever it was, communication has failed, as u would say....lmao! As i stated, I was attempting to be helpful not debate, as the posts prior to abm's initial post demonstrate, i was congratulating chrishayden.
Finally, I don't what status quo you're talkin about...but |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 683
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 06:26 am: |
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oops, there u go...i forgot the word "know" in the last sentence. "finally, i don't know what status quo you're talkin about" |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 864
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:54 am: |
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Lambd,
HAHA!
I don't know about you. But this kid cracks me up! |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 390
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:57 am: |
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I was referring to questions that you kept seeking answers to. That was the 'status quo' that I didn't want to get into with you two large-cerebrummed fellows. Please try to follow this time, for I am afraid that my attempt at communication with your egg-head has failed.
I asked you if Abm might be onto something when he said that people sometimes don't get what you are saying. Hence, my following statements on the art of written communication. Once again, I was not trying to debate your huge brain. I would never profess to be anywhere near worthy of that...Oooooh nooooo! That aint for me. You can buy pencils with a higher IQ than mine, bro!...I was merely trying to be helpful (believe it or not)...obviously we could all use a little help in the area of written communication. All my attempts at communicating my message to you has indeed failed...in my humble opinion...unless, of course, you just fokkin' wit me! |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 391
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:59 am: |
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Yeah, he is indeed a big-brained, hip hop, freak of nature! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 865
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:00 am: |
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Yukio,
I got to be honest...I am totally @#$%ing confuse by what you meant in your last 2 post. And, frankly, I am embarassed by that as I can usually pretty much flow with anything.
But, suffice it say: Dude, in my opinion, you appear to go to GREAT lengths to make the simplest issue into some sort of intellectual wrestling match where you end up tossing your own self unto the mat. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 394
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:12 am: |
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I love to read Yukio's posts, dude! Its like doing a crossword puzzle. It takes me about 30 minutes to look up all the big azz words, thirty minutes to figure out if he's insulting me or not, and then another hour to come up with a half decent response. I could chat with him all day if I had a month of spare time. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 550
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:30 am: |
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hmmmmmmmmm....I always know what Yukio is saying and Im never confused... I also likes the way he breaks it down it is definitely brain food.
Yukio, don't ever change!!!!!!! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 685
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:04 am: |
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abm: thanks for your opinion...i appreciate cha!
----------------------------------------
lambd:
(1) no brother. I never asked a question about not being understood in general. The problem, it appears, is that I asked abm why he thought i was making a "point," I should have directed him to his your response to my statements to chrishayden...Incorrectly, I believed he would know since I was addressing his statements on this thread although i prefaced it with what he said elsewhere...this was my error.
(2) Once, i realized my error, I thought I rectified it when I quoted him(see post Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:48 am) By this time u had already redirected the conversation, and as gesture of respect I "go to GREAT lenths" to both answer your questions and get you and abm to answer mine. (Btw, abm, I don't mine taking the time to explain things, and ask questions...in my opinion it a demonstration of respect).
Also, I already got your(lambd) point; I misunderstood cuz u didn't characterize this discussion as the "status quo" before.
In my first response to you, I said: "gotcha. no disagreement, here." Meaning, yes there is something to abm's comments.
The problem was, by continuing to address your queries, mine would never be addressed, because a longer, unnecessary, though interesting and related, dialogue would transpire through me engaging u, which is what happened.
Thus, the conversation becomes more muddied, since u keep asking questions and making comments that divert issue in a different direction...at any rate, since i've done this before when it comes to abm, i often think of this as tag team, in this case, you were/are the scapegoat....whether it was your intent or not...lmao!
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 686
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:06 am: |
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damn lams...u got be proofin...anyways, I meant to say, "I should have directed him(abm) to his response to my statements to chrishayden" |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 870
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:11 am: |
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Yukio,
You made the "point" of saying Chris’ article had grammatical errors. And I made the "point" of saying "So what.".
To me, it is really that simple.
Now, I guess we will now differ on how the word "point" should be defined. But then, that would be the first time we disagree about what " is ‘is’ ".
PS: Birthday cakes often have a lot of colorful and tasty frosting and candy sprinkles spread over them, but they seldom are particularly nutritious...plus they can give you gas. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 687
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:33 am: |
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abm: i thought we were done...why should we again go to so much trouble?
Is it that simple?...my statement was a gesture of respect, not a question of the omnipresence of errors in reviews, english books, etc... I was never going there...U "simpliy" saw something that wasn't there..."too be serious" u made it more serious than it was...this is typical...u see what u want....at least thats my conclusion.
and now, i have no substance...or were u really refering to yourself? Where there are no personal attacks, u have to place them there...is this the certain way you were refering to when u addressed a_womon? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 872
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:02 pm: |
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Yukio,
Well, as is often the case, my attempts at humor here are "Lost in [cybernetic] translation".
Or maybe I just ain't funny.
But anyway, look, I ain't gonna haggle over who caused what "trouble", who did or didn't "respect" whom and/or who engaged in "personal attacks".
I think we have both expressed ourselves, though, as is often the case, we view things differently.
So I'll just say I apologize if I offended you (and, I guess, A_womon) and just leave things alone. I'm sorry.
K? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 689
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:20 pm: |
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How gracious. I accept your apology. I also apologize if i have offended u...lets find moonie and sing cum bi yah! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 555
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:30 pm: |
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Wow an apology from ABM! write that down awomon!
I ain't mad atcha though, abm so i don't know why you apologizing to me...
JUSTWRITE!!!! Come on outta hibernation!!! I want to hear from you. You made it fun up in this piece!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 887
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:51 pm: |
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Yukio,
Thanks. I you can find our lunar friend, I'd be happy to oblige (though I'm not sure you'll like whatchu 'hear').
A_womon,
I apologized to Yukio because I think I offended him. I apologized to you because you are a woman. And, well, I have a wife and 2 daughters. So it seems I say "I'm sorry" to females so often that that has become sort of a knee-jerk reaction with me.  |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 395
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:46 pm: |
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Yukio is freakin' retarded, man. He is the world's first brainiac retarded dude!
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Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 396
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:47 pm: |
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...and A_woman is his mongoloid sister! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 693
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:06 am: |
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lambd: thanks!...u r indeed a dear friend...no one, i mean no one has ever labeled me as such before...i thank u humbly, and think u are even more retarded...one day, i hope to be as illiterate and slow as u...w/more practice, redunance, and miscommunication, hopefully i could walk in your footsteps...lmao! |
Carey
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 185
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 07:07 am: |
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I thought I was reading the wrong page, a page I'd read many months ago but no, it's the two.....or should I say few, running over the same grass. There's gotta be a rut in the keyboard cause I thought we'd moved on.
Hi DD |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 402
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:52 am: |
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I love you too, Yukio, my long lost,half brother...the retarded half.
...and who the hell is DD? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 697
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:25 pm: |
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naw bruh...y'r as retarded...and u have a stump leg... |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 403
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:39 pm: |
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...and so, our hero, the usually mild-mannered Yukio, has sunk to a new low. Insulting my prosthetic limb.
Yukion: I never thought is would come to this. I always expected better from you...Now A_woman, that's a different story altogether. I expect this crap from her.Please, from now on, leave my stump out of it! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 561
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:51 am: |
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nevah caaaaaaaaan say goodbye...no no na no I nevah can say goodbye everytime I think I had enuff and staht heading fa the door..
There's very strange vibration that pierces me right to the core tell me whyyyyyyyyy is it soooooooo??? |
Carey
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 188
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 10:32 am: |
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A_Women, that was right on time. I started singing it and now I can't get it out of my head. Thanks for the road bump in my mind. How about you submit another tune and maybe it will cover this track that's playing over and over in my head. Really, I can clearly hear Haye's voice, it's driving me crazy. I think on another thread someone mentioned a different song of his and I couldn't stop thinking about that one either. What is it with his music that makes it stick right in the core of our mind, or should I say my mind. "I am a lineman for the county, and I travel the main roads, looking for another overload, I need you more than want you and I need you for all times, a.......
See, now I'm thinking about some damn lineman checking the power lines. What the hell????
Carey |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 586
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 11:30 am: |
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hey carey, I was thinking of Michael jackson's nevah can say goodbye.. don't wanna let you go...nevah can say goodbye...ooooooooo baybe nevah can say goodbye....no no no no no no no no no! HEY I nevah.... |
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