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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 509
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:20 am: | 
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Near the end of Dickens' 1842 travels in North America he observed, on a steamboat between Quebec and Montreal, emigrants from England crowded between decks. He recorded his thoughts, in this beautiful passage in American Notes, on the burden poor families face over those blessed with plenty.
Cant as we may, and as we shall to the end of all things, it is very much harder for the poor to be virtuous than it is for the rich; and the good that is in them, shines the brighter for it. In many a noble mansion lives a man, the best of husbands and of fathers, whose private worth in both capacities is justly lauded to the skies. But bring him here, upon this crowded deck. Strip from his fair young wife her silken dress and jewels, unbind her braided hair, stamp early wrinkles on her brow, pinch her pale cheek with care and much privation, array her faded form in coarsely patched attire, let there be nothing but his love to set her forth or deck her out, and you shall put it to the proof indeed. So change his station in the world, that he shall see in those young things who climb about his knee: not records of his wealth and name: but little wrestlers with him for his daily bread; so many poachers on his scanty meal; so many units to divide his every sum of comfort, and farther to reduce its small amount. In lieu of the endearments of childhood in its sweetest aspect, heap upon him all its pains and wants, its sicknesses and ills, its fretfulness, caprice, and querulous endurance: let its prattle be, not of engaging infant fancies, but of cold, and thirst, and hunger: and if his fatherly affection outlive all this, and he be patient, watchful, tender; careful of his children's lives, and mindful always of their joys and sorrows; then send him back to Parliament, and Pulpit, and to Quarter Sessions, and when he hears fine talk of the depravity of those who live from hand to mouth, and labour hard to do it, let him speak up, as one who knows, and tell those holders forth that they, by parallel with such a class, should be High Angels in their daily lives, and lay but humble siege to Heaven at last.
Which of us shall say what he would be, if such realities, with small relief or change all through his days, were his! Looking round upon these people: far from home, houseless, indigent, wandering, weary with travel and hard living: and seeing how patiently they nursed and tended their young children: how they consulted ever their wants first, then half supplied their own; what gentle ministers of hope and faith the women were; how the men profited by their example; and how very, very seldom even a moment's petulance or harsh complaint broke out among them: I felt a stronger love and honour of my kind come glowing on my heart, and wished to God there had been many Atheists in the better part of human nature there, to read this simple lesson in the book of Life.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 685
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:58 am: |
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Chris,
Thanks! Dickens' small but timeless essay appears to potently offers much for a Cosby (& his apologists) to consider. Perhaps you should send it to his official email/website, assuming he has such. |
Solomonjones
Regular Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:24 pm: |
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Abm -
That essay is poignant and true. I won't speak to Cosby's views on poor blacks, but I will say this. Isn't it ironic that a prominent Englishman like Dickens extolled the virtues of his impoverished countrymen, while prominent blacks so often denigrate the shortcomings of ours?
It was only a few hundred years ago that we too were crowded in the bowels of ships. Only we weren't there of our own free will. We were there because we were stolen from Africa's shores.
It takes an extraordinary person to gain socio-economic status while swimming against the tide of four hundred years of slavery, one hundred years of Jim Crow, and forty-five years of covert (and sometimes overt) racism. In fact, it tkaes an extraordinary person just to survive under such tremendous weight.
Many of us are extraordinary. Some of us aren't. But if the only thing our leaders can do is criticize those of us who haven't risen to their status while fighting such tremendous odds, perhaps it's time for us to find new leaders.
God bless Charles Dickens for making his point with such skill. Reading that essay makes me proud to be a writer. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 543
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 10:06 am: |
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Solomonjones:
You are a preacher too. Keep da Faith. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1040
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:45 am: |
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I finally got around to reading this. Yes, it is a beautiful piece of writing. But it is also style over substance because it dramatizes a mundane situation, and almost borders on bathos. And what constructive criticism is offered by all of you who are offended by Bill Cosby's stance? Go ahead and feel sorry for those who are guilty of poor parenting and all of the problems that this causes, but be sure that in doing so you don't become enablers. |
Solomonjones
Regular Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 09:04 pm: |
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Chrishayden -
Amen, brother ...
Cynique -
I don't feel sorry for people who are guilty of poor parenting. But I realize that the larger American Society waits for people like Bill Cosby to make public comments criticizing other blacks, so that they can then point the finger and say, "See, we were right!"
That's why people like Armstrong Williams have talk shows and books. That's why people like the Filipino syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin has a platform. That's why Clarence Thomas has a seat on the Supreme Court. They are people of color who are used to lend credence to racist agendas painted as social conservatism.
Now Bill Cosby, a man who has proven time and again that he is willing to put his money where his mouth is to help black people, has had his comments co-opted in order to promote a racist agenda that will never truly address the problems of blacks.
In my opinion, the largely white media that pontificates upon such comments are interested in one thing: finding blacks to say the things they can't say themselves, then twisting those things until they have a totally different meaning than what was intended.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 672
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 09:12 pm: |
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sj: exactly.
but he says, she doesn't care. cuz white folk have already done as the worst that they can do to black folk... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 11:25 pm: |
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Yeah,yeah,Solomon Jones, I've heard this tired ol argument before and it's starting to wear thin. It's like marching in place, making noise but not moving. I gather all of you Cosby detractors think his observations are better left unsaid, and he should not be free to speak out. We should all just huddle together and stay in denial, and continue to let the problem fester. But just maybe if you'd stop worrying about what white folks think long enough to focus on what black folks do, then some progress would be made. BTW, all of you literary bleeding hearts should practice what you preach and chuck that little essay written by a WHITE author a couple of centuries ago. LOL |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 532
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:08 am: |
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...In my opinion, the largely white media that pontificates upon such comments are interested in one thing: finding blacks to say the things they can't say themselves, then twisting those things until they have a totally different meaning than what was intended.
You're absolutely right Solomon, but unfortunately we will always have these type black people around, whether they be rich and influentual, or just average working class people, who don't get that those who have the power don't need for us to give them anything. Not even comments, that when taken by themselves may be a tool for change, but when spoken in the derogatory and reckless manor in which Cosby used them only serve to, as you say, give those who could affect real change the means to say,
"look, we were right all along, those people won't even help themselves so why should we throw away money into their communties, when a man like Cosby says they aren't worth it" or things like that.
and people can look away all they want and say that what cosby said is true therefore he should be allowed to say it. But I just hope Cosby was somewhere listening when OBAMA spoke on the very same topic at the democratic convention.
and if my heart bleeds, then I'm glad because it means that it has not grown callous,scarred and stoney toward the struggles that the people in our community continue to go through.
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Bleekindigo
Veteran Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 62
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:05 am: |
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It's good when your conscience receives big wounds, because that makes it more sensitive to every twinge. I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound and stab us. If the book we're reading doesn't wake us up with a blow on the head, what are we reading it for? So that it will make US happy as YOU write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we HAD no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to. But we need the books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us....That is my belief."
Franz Kafka
I am absolutely enamored with this quote by Franz Kafka. It is necessarily harsh! Necessarily Severe! Relentless! Unadorned! It should be that way sometimes. Although, here, Kafka is speaking of books and the affects they should have on us, I think that the same idea can be applied to Cosby's manner of expression/approach on the "lower economic" class of African Americans. Sometimes you have to say it the hard way! Sometimes you gotta take the tequilla in straight no chaser. Take it in, feel the burn in your chest and make the queasy face.
Sometimes, the truth should just not be ornamented. It should be given in it's rawest form. Sometimes, it should "wound", "stab", "wake you up with a blow on the head", "affect us like a disaster" and "grieve us". Like books, the truth "...must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us." The sea of complacency and self doubt and surrender and defeatism.
Bleek-
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1069
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:16 pm: |
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I hear ya, Bleek! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1070
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:25 pm: |
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a-womon, Obama is a shrewd politician who is careful to project a certain image so that he will appeal to the constituency he wishes to elect him. Bill Cosby is a concerned citizen exercising a little tough love. I'd be more impressed with all of you who want to shush others if you'd come up with something other than a lot of maudlin rhetoric to justify your desire to muffle constructive criticism. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 64
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:45 pm: |
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I’m with Cynique on this one – are we never to be able to speak on our problems for fear the white man will hear us, pick up the criticism, run with it and beat us down with it? As if he needs help with that. So, has it come to the point where we cannot EVER speak the truth for fear of how the white man will take it and use it against us? It’s not like we have a separate, private place for us to congregated and deal with our problems where no white people will hear us. Hell, they’re everywhere and we can’t hide from them. Did Cosby not speak the truth? Are there not more than a few families with the problems he spoke of. Has he never done anything or said anything positive about black people? Of course he has but did the white people applaud him and the rest of us for it? No, and they ain’t gonna. I heard Obama’s great speech and what I heard was there are parents in the black community who know how to parent and who aren’t looking for handouts from the government and of course he’s right. He spoke the truth but did any white folks pick up on that and think better of black people and our communities? No, and they ain’t gonna.
It just seems like Cosby’s detractors are not saying he was wrong in what he said, just that he was wrong for saying it in front of the white folks. Phuck that!
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 536
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:22 pm: |
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It aint only about him saying it in front of white folks, the point is, we aint just talking about rhetoric and white folks giving compliments or agreeing with anything positive that is SAID. I am talking about financial power! And who holds the financial purse strings in this country? who has the ability to redzone neighborhoods and write them off when it comes to funding for our schools, and neighborhood improvement? Think about that one.
as far as OBAMA that's not all he said. He went on to say that if a grandmother is in an impoverished neighborhood, and she cant pay for her medication, she may not be my grandmother but her problem becomes my problem...
That is what is missing in Cosby's rhetoric... the fact that he is making this a THIER problem, not OUR problem.
I would write more but Im at work |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 377
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:55 pm: |
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That's exactly how I got it, A_woman. Certainly, I agree with Bleek, Crystal, and Cynique, however, Cosby seemed to have a somewhat separatist point of view. In that, I mean, he was not a part of it nor did he want to be. That's understandable, but shut up about it. Shut up and make no comment at all if you are influential, and Black, and rich, and have the public's eye to do with as you please. If you have made the decision to be a better-than-thou, then stay over there and be one. But the better-than-thou's don't make comments like that because most of the better-than-thou's are white and wait for a Cosby to say it for them, and then they take it and run with it. Mr. Cosby should be talking about ways that the government and Mr. Cosby can help the black poor. Bringing us down because you made your billion aint helping anybody. I say this to Bill, "Learn to speak OUR language, and be a better parent." They never proved that the young lady was not his daughter. They only proved that she could be paid off. Real hard for me to take parenting advise from a man that was getting sued by his daughter. And if its not his daughter he still confessed to the affair. So how much parenting and how much role modeling was he doing while he was stepping out on Camille? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 676
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:18 pm: |
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crystal: i think cosby said a truth. But "truth" is cumulative. consider: yes, there are parents who are ineffective. but there are other truths that cosby missed. So when we assess things we should be as comprehensive as possible, NO? So the question is, in the final analysis if cosby says identifies one truth but misses others, is he really speaking the "truth" ?
Consider this politically: This is a political world; because of the how districts are zoned, whites often have more voting power over black districts than we think...so folk, in my opinion, confuse a truth of cosby's rhetoric, w/what it means politically. DOes this mean he should speak his mind? No. BUt he speaks as if his assessment is the final word! WHere is the dialogue? DOes his money mean he can say anything? Can we not critique him? Etc.... |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:41 pm: |
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Here’s the part I’m just not getting – what makes what he said a separatist “better-than-thou” view? This is a serious question because I’ve never followed what he’s said or done off the stage so I’m not sure what he is. I just know that what he said about the manner of speech and financial priorities in a segment of our population is true. So why can’t he say it? Because the white folks will catch it and run with it??? Has he never made a comment about how the government could/should do better? Has he not done any good for our communities with his money? Why can’t he speak in this freedom of speech loving country? And from what I can tell there’s a lot of black folks that agreed with him – so why is he wrong?
Here’s another question – is there Anything Any black person can say that will truly change the minds of white people on the matter of race? I don’t think so, so let Cosby have his say cause it ain’t gonna change a damn thing – for worse or better.
Yukio: I don't think of what he said as the final word at all - just his opinion. We (black people) are the ones putting such a strong spin on it. Where is the dialogue? It's here and other places in the black community. I don't think white folks are talking about it at all and they ain't gonna cause they don't have to. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 538
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 02:43 pm: |
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Right Lambd, and Yukio
Lambd, you echoed my sentinments exactly. |
Bleekindigo
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Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 66
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:13 pm: |
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A-woman said"
as far as OBAMA that's not all he said. He went on to say that if a grandmother is in an impoverished neighborhood, and she cant pay for her medication, she may not be my grandmother but her problem becomes my problem...
That is what is missing in Cosby's rhetoric...
A-woman I think that I am hearing you now. He spoke a truth, but didn't speak it as wholly as he should have???
He shouldn't have spoke of the situation without speaking of it's other component(s)? He only gave one side of the problem? The black side?
The phenomenon known as the butterfly effect comes to mind when I think of your point.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:20 pm: |
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You're coming through loud and clear, Crystal!
As for Cosby's personal life, that's beside the point. Nothing he does costs the taxpers money or has any effect on schools, neighborhoods, or society. To engage in petty-finger pointing about who has the nerve to say what, is counterproductive.
And to compare black senior citizens with black youth is like comparing apples to oranges. Needy senior citiziens of all races are the victims of corporate greed. Wayward black youth are the victims of parents who have not instilled in them a practical set of values. And how hard is it to emphasize that getting an adequate education is more beneficial than wearing designer gear. And contrary to popular belief, for the motivated child an adequate education is available in inner city schools. The problem has more to do with behavior than curriculum. I don't know how many of my school teacher acquaintances have told me how much they'd love to be able to teach instead of spending all of their times disciplining unruly children who have no home-training. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 539
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:20 pm: |
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Yes Bleek, that's it. Yes when Cos started saying THOSE people and YOU people who did he sound like?
If we were only reading the words that Cosby said and didn't know who had said them, would we believe that a black man had said those things? |
Bleekindigo
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Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 67
Registered: 06-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:32 pm: |
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Yukio said:
crystal: i think cosby said a truth. But "truth" is cumulative. consider: yes, there are parents who are ineffective. but there are other truths that cosby missed. So when we assess things we should be as comprehensive as possible, NO? So the question is, in the final analysis if cosby says identifies one truth but misses others, is he really speaking the "truth" ?
I agree that we should be comprehensive and Cosby definitely was not comprehensive when you consider the many different factors that indisputably play part in the situation. But does his incomprehensiveness make the segments of the situation that he did mention untruth's?
Yukio, what is the difference between "a truth" and "the truth" in this situation? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:33 pm: |
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Cos can refer to "those" people and "you" people if he wants to. After all, all black people are not in the same station in life. Yeah, yeah, I know we all will encounter that racism bugaboo at some point. But we are not all in the same boat. I'm sure underclass blacks refer to middle-class ones as "those" people. A lot of what is being said sounds good, but how grounded is it in reality?? You Cosby-bashers are all caught up in the way things should be, instead of the way they are. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:35 pm: |
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Actually, if I didn’t know who Cosby was and heard those words I would still think it was a black person because I don’t think any white person would have the guts to say it, at least straight out like he did, in these politically correct times. Although I hear you on ‘he could have said more’. But I didn’t hear or read his whole speech so I’m not sure he didn’t. And if he didn't this time - hasn't he ever? |
Bleekindigo
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Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 68
Registered: 06-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 03:35 pm: |
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Crystal -Preach on! |
Bleekindigo
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Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 69
Registered: 06-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:02 pm: |
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And to compare black senior citizens with black youth is like comparing apples to oranges. Needy senior citiziens of all races are the victims of corporate greed. Wayward black youth are the victims of parents who have not instilled in them a practical set of values. And how hard is it to emphasize that getting an adequate education is more beneficial than wearing designer gear.
Cynique, is it really that simple? Are the wayward black youth merely victims of undutiful parents? Who are the parents victim to and does that need to be addressed when making the observation that you did?
It's easy to emphansize the importance of education over that of designer gear, but doesn't it seem that it is obviously veeeeery hard for these kids to understand that getting an adequate education is more beneficial than wearing designer gear since so many of our youth seem to think the latter? Why?
When I was growing up, it was definitely the village that raised the child. The village raised me. People like to say what happened to the village. I say, the village is still raising the children. The village in some areas though seems to be dominated by children-trying to raise children and adults who too think that designer gear is more important than education...Why? Isn't there more to it Cyn than parents being negligent or children being wayward?
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 540
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:14 pm: |
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the point of using the grandmother example was to show how OBAMA was not distancing himself from the problems that exist in our inner cities as Cosby did.
Cynique,
What good is to be found in black people further fracturing the community by separating from each other based on class? So now we will climb the social ladder and look down our noses at those who are not where we are and tell them what they aint doing? What is the purpose? How will that motivate change?
Bleek,
Very good questions!!! I hope I can give you my take on it later. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 541
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:17 pm: |
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Bleek:
What is "Butterfly effect?" |
Solomonjones
Regular Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
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Cynique -
You said that my argument that racists essentially wait for influential blacks to down "poor" blacks was tired. Perhaps you're right. But calling the argument tired doesn't make it untrue. However, I digress. My real issue is with your later statement: "As for Cosby's personal life, that's beside the point."
I think Cosby's personal life is exactly the point. Because the reality is, Cosby's made parenting mistakes just like the rest of us. He had an affair and paid the woman to keep it quiet. Is it bad parenting to engage in such behavior when you have a son who could adopt those types of attitudes toward women and sexual behavior? Is it bad parenting to engage in such behavior when you have a son who could emulate your habit of buying your way out of trouble?
We'll never know how Cosby's liaison affected Cosby's son because Cosby's son was murdered. But we do know this. Cosby has engaged in immoral and unethical behavior that was a direct reflection on his parenting skills.
Does that erase all the good he's done for black people? No. But it does prove that he, just like the rest of us, is not perfect. And it robs him of the right to denigrate the behavior of others while placing his own behavior in a separate category.
So here's the real question: Do you think 15-year-old Laqueesha from the projects is going to change the way she raises baby Jamal because of what Cosby said? I don't.
But if Cosby had done what he's done in the past -- attack the problem with resources rather than rhetoric, at least she'd have a fighting chance to do better. |
Bleekindigo
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Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 70
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:30 pm: |
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A-Woman, I kept trying to explain it in my own words--it was turning into a term paper, so here is a definition I got from an online dictionary: much simpler!
A chaotic effect, the phenomenon whereby a small change in one part of a complex system can have a large effect somewhere else.
Etymology: from the beating of a butterfly's wings in one place causing a tornado in another part of the world.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 677
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:41 pm: |
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crystal: I don't think that what he said is the final word either. Notice, I said, "BUt he speaks as if his assessment is the final word!"
The important words here are: "he speaks as if"
When I watched a program between Ph.d Alvin Poussaint, who represented cosby, and a younger journalist, who represented an alternative view, it seemed clear that cosby via poussaint believed his words were the final word...of course, this is my interpretation. Poussaint kept repeating what cosby said; he also kept telling the brother what was wrong, and rarely responded to the brother's questions, nor even consider the possibility that there was value in what the brother was saying...so they talked but it wasn't a dialogue.
In this forum, there is pro-cosby and anti-cosby...few of us really dialogue, for it doesn't seem that there is much common ground.
Finally, he wouldn't matter, really, whether he is black or not, his analysis is just wrong in my opinion.
cyn: you're right. there is a heterogenous black community. i've said this; u've said this. I was responding to a_womon's comment of how Obama both agreed w/ cosby and at the same time made it clear that the governemnt still had a part to play....I could appreciate this, for he made it everyone's problem.
I don't even disagree w/much of what u say. I believe children are raising children. And these children don't have the "know-how" to place the strong values in their children. Also, life for these children who are raising children is so clear as it is to you. This has to do w/the black family and the lack of love between black men and women. This is a real problem, for many of these young girls use their children as sources for love, but at the same time they don't know how to raise children to become responsible cuz they have yet to learn what that means...u learn parenting from your parents, right...but if u're haven't received any, what can u teach your children...this is what cosby is saying, no? I think it is, and here we are in agreement, but he STOPS, here. He also makes fun of them, and uses their difficult life situation as a joke. As I've said before, he was poor but he wasn't poor in the late 20th and early 21st century, where the black community is gone. If it takes a village, but he's advocating hortio algers then something is wrong...
Well, unfortunately, you're not addressing anyone in particular. But I don't think i'm focusing on the way things "should be," I'm focusing on what we need to do! And we, because i'm politically w/the black community, need more than learning standard english, good parenting, etc...if i'm correct then we need to do more than tell folk they're not good parents, we need to show them and deal with their problems...again, i wonder how much love these young women are getting, these men are still boys, they aren't responsible...some one needs to teach them....you can just throw money to people who are going to college already...give some to the churchs u have non-religious programs for young mothers, literacy programs, etc...contribute to research that will make mandatory that prisons in all states will require their prisons to get a college education!
bleekindigo, you ask:
(1)But does his incomprehensiveness make the segments of the situation that he did mention untruth's?
No. it doesn't.
2)Yukio, what is the difference between "a truth" and "the truth" in this situation?
The difference, i believe is in your own post. You state, "I agree that we should be comprehensive and Cosby definitely was not comprehensive when you consider the many different factors that indisputably play part in the situation."
I'm just saying that he made true statements(parts), but his analysis(the whole) is untruthful. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1073
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:54 pm: |
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OK. Bill Cosby is flawed. And it's simplistic to think that if all parents had better skills, the problem would be solved. Now what? Back to the business as usual. No problems resolved. No ground gained. See ya. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 678
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 04:59 pm: |
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cynique: will u see me? were we ever talking about solutions? or what the problems were? at any rate, for those who are interested ground is gained, for one begins to think about what they need to do...and they can begin to do so...whatever that is! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 552
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:04 pm: |
|
Boy I didn't see all this going on up here.
We gotta all face it, Cos sucks. No ifs ands or buts.
I'll give you one thing, Cynique. You ain't afraid to keep running up into a buzzsaw. But your muumuu is getting a little raggedy right now around the seat(haw haw!) |
Bleekindigo
Veteran Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:27 pm: |
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Yukio, I didn't see an answer to the question that I asked of you in the piece of my post that you quoted??
Yukio: I'm just saying that he made true statements(parts), but his analysis(the whole) is untruthful.
I agree with you. He made true statements. As far as his truthfulness or untruthfulness in analyzing the "whole", I didn't think that he did--analyze the whole?? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:47 pm: |
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I may sound like a voice in the wilderness on this board, Chris, but there are just as many black Americans who agree with Cosby as there are who don't. And, as I continue to stress, do any of you detractors have any viable alternatives to the situation. Maybe if all of your were as old as I am, you would understand why I'm so unimpressed with all of this same ol ineffectual belly-aching I've been hearing forever. I should've said "see ya" in 5 years, because it'll still be going on. zzzzzz |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 542
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:01 pm: |
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Well Cyn,
I asked you how Cosby's remarks were going to bring change, yet you didn't answer. change will come with power and in this country the only ones with real power are those who hold the banks.
So unless the black people with money come together in our communities and start building banks, and schools, and things of this nature, to bring hope back to our communities, then all of this cosby talk both pro and con will mean absolutely nothing! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1076
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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Didn't I say business as usual? There ain't gonna be much change. Cosby simply identified a problem that spawns far-reaching negative results. At some point, individuals are just going to have to solve their immediate problems and do the best they can. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 379
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:10 pm: |
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It will definitely still be going on. I don't have the answers. Hell, I got the same observations that ol' Cos got. I aint a Cosby basher or detractor. I love the man. I just hate the way he came off. He came off like for that split second he paid his way out his skin and looked down his nose at the black community. Say what you will, but I think the same way he does, I just didn't say it. And if I did say, I would have to say it in the mirror...unlike ya boy! Instead of saying it into the mirror, he broke the mirror and said it to us po' niggas down here in the ghetto. Wit our baby mamma drama and our po' english skilz. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 680
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
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bleekindigo: I understood, perhaps wrongly, that to be comprehensive would include not just one truth but many others in order to make a final assessment, that would be understood as "the truth."
Well what is the whole in this case? I thought the whole was what social scientist call the "underclass"...others called them the underserved poor, etc...there is scholarship on this difficult discussion. Usually, folk either fall between the behavioral analysis(cosby) or the societal analysis, liberals. I'm in the middle; i think it is a connection between behavior and structural problems. Consider these quotes from:http://www.blackcommentator.com/93/93_cover_cosby.html (it is also an interesting article.)
Bill Cosbyisms
Cosby on the Black poor:
"Lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' "
Cosby on Black youth culture:
"People putting their clothes on backwards: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? ... People with their hats on backwards, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up to the crack and got all type of needles [piercings] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from? Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damn thing about Africa."
Cosby on civil rights:
"Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. We have to go in there – forget about telling your child to go into the Peace Corps – it is right around the corner. They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English."
Cosby on literacy:
"Basketball players – multimillionaires – can't write a paragraph. Football players – multimillionaires – can't read. Yes, multimillionaires. Well, Brown versus Board of Education: Where are we today? They paved the way, but what did we do with it? That white man, he's laughing. He's got to be laughing: 50 percent drop out, the rest of them are in prison."
Cosby on poor Black women:
"Five, six children – same woman – eight, 10 different husbands or whatever. Pretty soon you are going to have DNA cards to tell who you are making love to. You don't know who this is. It might be your grandmother. I am telling you, they're young enough! Hey, you have a baby when you are 12; your baby turns 13 and has a baby. How old are you? Huh? Grandmother! By the time you are 12 you can have sex with your grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I'm just predicting."
Cosby on the sons and daughters of poor, Black, unmarried mothers:
"…with names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed [!] and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.
Cosby on Blacks shot by police:
"These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"
-----------------------------------
Now, are there some truths, here. Certainly, but he is generally, as i read it, making a general statement about poor black people, the socalled ghetto, the hood, etc...did he say that he wasn't talkin about all poor blacks? Yes, he did, but do these accumulated comments rendering a truthful whole for the population that he's talking about? Are his actions socially responsible? Or some truths w/o responsibility? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 681
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:29 pm: |
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The Balance of Barack Obama and Bill Cosby
by Dedrick Muhammad
August 2, 2004
I’d like to invite Barack Obama and Bill Cosby over for dinner, and listen to them hash out their differences about the causes of black poverty. By the end of the evening, I think we’d come to an understanding.
In his keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention, the Senate candidate from Illinois had a healthy balance between public and individual responsibility – a balance that eluded Mr. Cosby in his tirades against African American parents and youth.
As Mr. Cosby referred to black schoolchildren as “dirty laundry” and belittled their names and their clothes as the cause of their limited economic success, he was not just disrespectful, he was factually wrong. He overlooked the signs of black progress, and he overlooked the structural causes for the racial income gap.
Barack Obama did call for holding up high expectations for our children, decrying “the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.” But as he told his family story, he also affirmed the government role in creating the ladder of opportunity. His white grandfather went to college on the GI Bill and got an FHA mortgage, programs that weren’t open to his African-American father at the time.
Mr. Cosby reinforced stereotypes used ever since enslaved Africans were first brought to the shores of the United States, that white Americans were more prosperous because they worked harder and upheld better moral standards. He claimed that low-income African Americans are not taking advantage of the opportunities the Civil Rights movement brought them.
Yes, some people, in particular low-income teenagers and young adults, make harmful choices such as dropping out of school, crime and drug abuse. But these youth come in every color. Studies show that illegal drug use is slightly higher among white Americans.
When sociologist Dalton Conley analyzed educational outcomes, he found that family net worth, not race, was the best predictor of high school graduation and college enrollment. At a given level of assets, black students are actually slightly more likely to graduate from high school than white students. The drop-out rate for black students has declined 44% since the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King.
African Americans with graduate degrees are two to three times more likely than whites to engage in the rough-and-tumble world of entrepreneurship with small business start-ups. Employed black workers work more hours per week and per year than white workers.
Yet African Americans have not been rewarded for all this effort. For every dollar of per capita white income, black families had 57 cents in 2001, up from 55 cents in 1968. The racial wealth divide is even worse: the typical black family has less than one-tenth of the median white net worth of $120,000.
In the decades when white income and wealth soared, it was not only due to hard work and talent. Those factors are present in every race and every era. It was because of public investment in a ladder of opportunity. The New Deal and the generous post-WWII veterans’ benefits largely excluded people of color.
Affirmative action and the Great Society programs of the 1960s and 70s helped create the first large black middle class. But since that time, public investment in opportunity has eroded. Federal spending on affordable housing was cut by three-quarters in the 1980s, and the majority of families of color have been unable to achieve the American dream of homeownership.
Direct discrimination still exists in the job market, as evidenced by recent studies. One found that job applicants with white-sounding names are 50% more likely to be invited for an interview than applicants with black-sounding names. Another found that white applicants with prison records are more likely to be hired than black applicants without a record.
These obstacles are not African Americans’ fault. The United States has never invested in African American communities in the same way it did from the late 1930s through 1950s to create the white suburban middle class. Barack Obama’s hopeful vision of America will only come to pass when African Americans – and all Americans – focus their energy on improving both their own behavior and on expanding society’s infrastructure of opportunity.
I hope Bill Cosby hears the call to public responsibility, not just personal responsibility, in Mr. Obama’s assertion that “with just a change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all.”
Dedrick Muhammad is the Racial Wealth Divide Coordinator at United for a Fair Economy and co-author of UFE’s report “The State of the Dream: Enduring Disparities in Black and White.”
|
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 543
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:47 pm: |
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No one is saying, at least Im not saying, that Cosby hasn't done positive things in our community, the other week on the today show they had a story about 2 youngs boys who when their mother ODed on drugs, they raised themselves by themselves at age 13 and 10 or something like that. These boys went to school everyday, worked odd jobs after school, and still made good grades and when they graduated from high school, I don't know how Cos heard of it, but he paid for their tuition to go to college. and sent two of their good friends with them.
I cried when I saw this story because these boys showed that the pictures that are flashed before us of life in the ghetto, the images that are practically brainwashing us everyday of the plight of the baby mama drama, and young boys selling drugs, these boys showed that is NOT the only images that should come out of the ghetto. These boys have a unique story, but not a unique ending, the images that Cos put before the public eye do exist, of course they do, we see them everyday, those in power make sure that we do.
But there are young people who HAVE mastered English, Have mastered taking and passing tests, and entrance exams that are worded and undercover set up to help black kids fail, and still kids like these continue to excel in large numbers.
So why don't we see more and prolonged images like these? Cosby spoke ONE truth. There are many truths to be told. Cosby had the perfect opportunity to blow this "life in the ghetto is trash and 200 dollar tennis shoes" image away. Instead, he chose to perpetuate it. He could have given us some other images of the thousands of young people who DONT SELL DRUGS, DONT MAKE BABIES, DONT GET ON WELFARE. We are out here, going to college and working jobs and trying to live a decent life, yet we are invisible because people who can promote positive images always choose to focus on the negative. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 382
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:05 pm: |
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I feel like I've been banging my head up against the wall and suddenly, here comes A_woman with a Tylenol. Why couldn't I have said what you said the way you said it? What you said read like it was coming from MY head. Everyday, I wish that I could say what you say but I end up a different way. Thanks, 'A'. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 544
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:08 pm: |
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Lambd,
HAHAHAHAHA! Once a powet always a powet!!! Ya too much!!!! Im smiling  |
Solomonjones
Regular Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 10:44 pm: |
|
A_womon
A_men |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 857
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:40 pm: |
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Cynique,
Does the elder jealously fear her silly yet strong and hopeful children may still yet succeed where she has utterly failed? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 858
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:45 pm: |
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Foks, Cosby is just angry and depressed that no one laughs at his corny jokes anymore, he and his time has passed...and he no longer has a son to carry on his name. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1078
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:49 pm: |
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Never under estimate the comfort zone provided by adopting an ostrich mentality and sticking your head in the sand. Forget about what is causing teen-aged pregnancy, and black on black crime and gang drive-bys. And don't, by any means, speak out about it. That's a no-no. Just focus on that which doesn't require soul-searching. And, yes, give credit to those who are pulling themselves up by their boot straps. Oops! Is that a no-no. Did somebody once say black folks have no boot strap to pull themselves up by? Wait! What's that I see? A bright light. I'm having an epiphany. The black race has a split personality. Is there any cure for this affliction. I'll never tell. I'm going back to the the Olympics. I can't believe a white guy wearing sun-glasses and diamond earrings beat 2 brothers in the 400-meters. And whassup with the dream team? Jeeze! Another myth exploded. tsk-tsk. Will wonders never cease. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 388
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:57 pm: |
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Is that guy white? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 860
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:59 pm: |
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Cynique,
Yeah, well...okay. We all nuts.
But what are WE ALL going to do about it? Because if our all being Black MEANS anything that it should mean that we all have a mutual and individual interest in improving the status quo.
But if it going to be only about fingerpointing, oneupsmanship, naaa-na-naaa-na-naaaa-naaaa, WITHOUT any real/sincere effort to help ourselves/others, then what's the point of pretending we really even give a f@#$ about each other.
Instead, we can just live/think like White people. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 861
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:03 am: |
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Cynique,
I am THRILLED the Black ballers are getting CREAMED in Athens. Really, it is one of the very best things that can happen to young Black men in decades. In fact, I am hoping the NBA is overrunned by Europeans soon.
Perhaps then brothahs can climb down from atop their lamebrain Air Jordan, A.I. dreams and pick some math, chemistry and economic text books.
GO LITHUANIA! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 547
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:01 am: |
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Solomon,
!
Cyn,
I don't like the term "black on black crime, for it was invented by those who seek to make black people feel stupid and inferior once again. It assumes that black people are the only group committing crimes against each other, when everyone knows that ALL groups committ crimes where they live, not just blacks. But its peculiar that you don't hear the phrase white on white, or asian on asian etc.. crime. Likewise teen pregnancy is not indiginous to the black community, it is a societal problem, though again, some seek to only single out blacks and make it appear that it is our problem above all other groups, which is so far from the truth.
|
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 684
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:25 am: |
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a_womon: so wise...too bad folk don't include your mature contributions in their rants and raves about your "immaturity"....anyways, no response is necessary...this is just an insight for u. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 548
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:39 am: |
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Yukio,
|
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 389
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:46 am: |
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Well, Yukio, for your somewhat interestingly choiceful information, I have always included her mature contributions in MY 'rants and raves' about A_woman's 'other' side. So can I PLEASE get some cookie credit and place me to the right of the...others? |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 549
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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Lambd,
|
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:08 am: |
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A_woman,
Thank you, dear.
Yukio,
***said while tongue is out***
Nnaaaaaaa! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 866
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:42 am: |
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Solomonjones,
Why did you preface your initial response to this subject with a qualifier of "...I won't speak to Cosby's views on poor blacks..."? yet otherwise express such clear and definite views on this topic.
Do you chose to avoid (at least the appearance of) contradicting and/or criticizing ("the great and powerful") Cos'? If so, why? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 867
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:03 am: |
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Yukio,
You made the "point" of saying Chris’ article had grammatical errors. And I made the "point" of saying "So what.".
To me, it is really that simple.
Now, I guess we will now differ on how the word "point" should be defined. But then, that would be the first time we disagree about what " is ‘is’ ".
PS: Birthday cakes often have a lot of colorful and tasty frosting and candy sprinkles spread over them...but they seldom are particularly nutritious. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:30 am: |
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Well, Charles Dickens, I know you must be rolling over in your grave. Who knew what a controversy your essay would one day spark? In the meantime, I got more pressing things to worry about. Gotta work up my nerve to get this tattoo I got money for on my birthday. And have any you females (or um - males) noticed how fione Mo Greene is? Great bod. Cute dimples. He ain't the fastest man in the world anymore, but I kinda like the idea of his slow roll. (Chill out, Viggo, baby, and go back to your soccer game.) Peace out! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 688
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:37 am: |
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abm: how cute...u always have such nice things to say...lmao!
now, i have no substance...or were u really refering to yourself? Where there are no personal attacks, u have to place them there...is this the CERTAIN way you were refering to when u addressed a_womon?
I wonder why u chose this thread to rekindle something that started elsewhere...u asked me this already...do u want more attension?
Before you were confused, and now, you some-how are full of answers...i'm not interested.
-----------------------------------
ALL posters, if u're interested please go to
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/1/1556.html?1093448033...
but don't waste your time, like i did... |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 551
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
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cyn,
I think you should get one on your lower back cuz then everyone could see it when you wear your low rize jeans! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 871
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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Yukio,
My response here was posted in error. For that, I apologize.
Cynique,
I was kinda rootin' for Greene too, though certainly not for the same reasons you did. Hey! he ran a great race. Anytime you get down under the 9.9 range in the 100 meter dash, you are smokin!
But no matter how good you may be, eventually some younger cat is gonna run by yah.
So whatcha gonna get? A tigress! That would be kewl...and it fits your persona.
I'll let you (and your favorite lil' Lambd) decide WHERE to put it. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 69
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:07 pm: |
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Cynique: Yes I've noticed! Actually young men with great bodies in tight clothing is the main reason I watch the olympics.
Tattoo??? Ouch! Get Viggo to go with you to take your mind off the pain. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:09 pm: |
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Come on, a-womon. Wheeee. A tattoo is one thing. Low-riders is another, especially when your saddle bag exceeds the apppropriate dimensions. LOL
As a Leo, I am loyal to the lion, Abm. No tigers for me. Think I'm going for a rose on my chest. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 874
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:23 pm: |
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Crystal,
That's the same reason why guys watch the female Volleyball, Track and Swimming (Okay, I check out the gymnast for the same reason too...but they're usually so young/tiny, I feel like such a perv').
I just wish there were more sistah's in those events built like Serena Williams (DAYUM!) and the Olympics would be off the heezy fo' sheezy.
Oh, the Winter Olympics female figureskaters are often pretty foine too. Lambd, that Tanya Harding had a kur dunka dunk that everybit met your 'Snow White' fantasy. And she even made skeezer porn films too. What more could you want in a White woman? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Yeah, Crystal, I've witnessed how painful tatoos can be. I gotta think about this some more. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:32 pm: |
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ABM: the olympics are sexist! How come the men aren’t wearing those tight and tiny booty stoppers like the women volleyball players? The women are out there showing all they [haven’t] got but the men have those baggy knee length shorts. Although, the men’s 100 did me proud. ‘Ole boy from Jamaica was showing his true color[s].
And while we’re at it bring back the tighter short pants in the NBA!
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 876
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:32 pm: |
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Cynique,
Aw heck, girl. Just stoke up some of dat LSD you have left over from the '70's and everythang will be good-n-plenty. Then, you'll be able to 'grow' a rose from your chest. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 552
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:35 pm: |
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Aww it don't hurt THAT bad! If you get a little one. Just little stings like a bee hahaha!
Cyn,
You come on! Saddle bags nothin! You know you just a little bitty thing! At least you looked so in ya back page photo! You know you got soma dem jeans in ya closets!
and remember ya comment "some men prefer giraffes some like gazelles, me being the latter..."
hahahhahaahahha!
So you aint foolin me!
|
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 553
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |
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Crystal
..."women out their showin what they aint got!" Hahahahahahahahahah!
So TRUE!!!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 877
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:39 pm: |
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Crystal,
Because if 'guys' dressed like women, millions of other guys (well, at least the straight ones) one be tossing their TV's outtah their windows and gagging on their Budweiser.
The Jamacian dude was not trying to attract your attention. Rather, he was trying to D-tease his fellow sprinters (Can someone say..."GAY"!)
Here is why you won't see short-shorts return to the NBA anytime soon. And do rich, egomaniacal White male fans REALLY want to take their trophy wives to see 300 lb 7 foot Black guys in skintight shorts? I don't THINK so! |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 71
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:47 pm: |
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Come on ABM how come he gots to be gay? How typical! Women have no problem acknowledging another woman's assets [Yea, Serena is all that and then some] but men always got to play the "he's gay" card. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 879
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |
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Crystal,
Okay, see, guys ain't built like gals. If a guys likes to check out another dudes nutes...it because he wants to play with'em.
Right Lambd? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 880
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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BTW: So Crystal, you like checking out Serena @$$ets...huh? Okay, in detail, describe WHAT you like about her. And PULEASE...go slow.
Hehe! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1086
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:22 pm: |
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Speakin of gay, has anyone heard that tarnished- gold-medal-winning gymnist speak? He sure sounds like a girlie-man. Give up the gold, punk! Or at least give the Korean guy a gold medal, too. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:23 pm: |
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See ABM there you go again - starting some shyt! I said I can acknowledge her AZZets. I didn't say I liked checking her out. Hey, it's there. It ain't like anybody can ignore that big thang can they? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 882
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:30 pm: |
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Crystal,
Come on, Dawlin’. Why you rippin’? You know whatchu are? (Right?). And if you do swing dat way, dat’s kewl.
Right Cynique?
Yeah, that Serena is packin’ bootay to spare. That’s why she’s such a dominant tennis player. She’s got such a great homecourt @$$-advantage. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 883
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:40 pm: |
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Cynique,
Those male gymnasts often sound like they are nute short of a pair. Must be all that crotch-crimping spandex they wear.
Or the steroids. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 01:43 pm: |
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ABM: yea, I know what I am and what I like and it ain't no womans booty!
And why you bringing Cynique in it?
And what is it about lesbianism that gets you men all worked up? Don't you just love how these topics get all twisted? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:19 pm: |
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Yeah, Abm, why are you bringing me into it? Your obsession with bi-sexuality taints your hetero-sexuality. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 886
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:42 pm: |
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Crystal says: "I know what I am and what I like and it ain't no womans booty!"
ABM says: So what are you, a legs or breast kinda gal?
Crystal says: "And why you bringing Cynique in it?"
ABM says: Baby. I thought that’s whatchu wanted.
Crystal says: "And what is it about lesbianism that gets you men all worked up?"
ABM says: HAHA! That’s a trick question, right? Or do you mean something OTHER than the part about seeing 2 or more women making out together?
Crystal says: "Don't you just love how these topics get all twisted?"
ABM says: Yeah. Ain’t it kewl!
Cynique,
Baby, the only thing that could possibly taint my heterosexuality would be impotence. |
Carey
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 181
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 02:55 pm: |
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Yeah ***Man seen peering into a large vat, he laughs aloud and then starts stirring. "Well... well..... well", he says pausing between each, he then lets out another loud laugh followed by, "Boy this s*^t is getting good, Thumper ain't got nothin' on me, bet he can't cook THIS up". He stops stirring, his eyes widen. He then ducks down and we can hear him say, "Damn, Damn, Damn, he comes that nosey Cynique, I know she's gonna ax me a bunch of questions", "I should have known that talking about them lesbians was going to get a rise out of her". With that, he dropped the spoon and ran off over a hillside laughing all the way. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
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I haven't read the rules for this board but is it ok if we get physical? Cause I'm bout to slap ABM! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 890
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:19 pm: |
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HAHA!
You know, I can always tell when I have have verbally gotten the better my wife (which, I admit, is RARE!): She usually hits me.
I guess that’s sort of her way of rewarding me.
~"Hit me right here. Oh! And there, Baby. Ah! And don’t forget here, Dawlin. EUW!"~ |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:39 pm: |
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Heads up, Carey. I was brought into the conversation by Abm which made it necessary for me to register my protest. You should know how that is. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:41 pm: |
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She hits you because trying to talk to a knucklehead is a waste of time. Get right to what he can understand: s-l-a-p. Then move on with your business. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 893
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 04:03 pm: |
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Carey,
Cynique is trynah play innocent. Every chick’s got a game. That’s hers.
We (and a certain erotic photographer) know how she REALLY get’s down.
Crystal,
Hey. Whatever you dominatrix’es call whatchu do is a-okey-dokey with me. Jus’ please hurt me ‘good’. |
Carey
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 182
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 05:37 pm: |
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Cyn-Cyn, you know it's all in fun. You and I are never going to have a beef, I'll call you by phoone before that ever happens, you know that. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 397
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:06 am: |
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Dang! I was in school all day and missed all this? I knew tryin' to further my edjamication was a waste of time! I missed out on lesbian gang bangs, Cyniques low-rise jeans, Crystal got a new S&M client in Abm...what the heck else is goin' on in here? Carey, what the hell are you doin' up in here with all this goin' on?...Oh, I see. Sniffin' around that pretty young thang again, aint you? A_woman gonna mess around and give you some. Watch what I'm tellin' you. You aint never been wit no white chicks have you? That's the only prerequisite you need. That and a prison record like Yukio got. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 398
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:10 am: |
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Cynique, I got a wolf on my left shoulder, representin' the 'Wolfpack'...I'll have to explain that later. I have an elaborate hooded cross on my right shoulder with my nickname and my daughters names on it, and I have a picture of a (shut the f*** up, Abm!) lamb on my right forearm...but he's got big teeth and a very manly look on his face! (I said shut the f*** UP!) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 900
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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Lambd,
Miss a little, miss a lot.
Lambd says: I have a picture of a (shut the f*** up, Abm!) lamb on my right forearm...but he's got big teeth and a very manly look on his face! (I said shut the f*** UP!)
ABM says: Man! I don't have to say anything. Cuz dat's the kind a stuff that sells itself. HAHA!
And, yeah, I too think Poppa Carey is trynah sneak up on a lil' sum sum. Ain't no playah like an ol' skool playah. Cuz they can lull the honies into a false sense of security with all dat "Jus' come on over here gal and sit on big daddy's lap" rap.
Did you see that Crystal likes checking out Serena Williams glutes. Man! Don't you jus' love these modern sistahs! Cuz they luv getting in-touch with the 'feminine side'...of other women. And Cynique is, alas, still in denial. But maybe Mistress Crystal will help bring her outtah dat 'closet'. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1101
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |
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Choosing not to dignify Abm's tiresome accusations with reply, I will proceed to give an update on my tattoo project. It's causing quite a stir, and bets are being taken. On one shoulder an angel whispers that I should grow old gracefully, and on the other shoulder a devil hisses that I should go for it! BTW, Lambd, the tattoo ewe describe, sounds more like a Ram than a lamb. Ummmm. (Guess that went over with a bang) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 902
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:01 pm: |
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Cynique says: "Choosing not to dignify Abm's tiresome accusations with reply..."
ABM says: Foks. Notice that that is NOT a denial.
Cynique says: "It's causing quite a stir, and bets are being taken..."
ABM says: Slow news day in Chi-Town, huh?
Cynique says: "On one shoulder an angel whispers that I should grow old gracefully, and on the other shoulder a devil hisses that I should go for it!"
ABM says: And on her left breast, an gremlin who looks like Lambd is banging a Ram. |
Crystal
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:51 pm: |
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Dang, outed by ABM. Hey, it may come to that if 'ole boy I've got my eye on don't get with the program.
Cynique: my cousin has the cutest little rose on her shoulder with leaves and everything. She said it hurt though. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 909
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
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Crystal,
That's it. "If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the [girl] you're with." Though, maybe I got confused, but you didn't intend to imply your rose-shouldered cousin might be the one from which "it may come"? Did you?
Cuz THAT's, like, jus too kinky...even for me. (Lambd, on dah odah han', iz very much intah dat kinda thang.) |
Bleekindigo
Veteran Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 72
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:24 pm: |
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Cynique, when I heard Paul Hamm (that's his name right) speak, both my and my boyfriend's jaws dropped and we could do nothing else but laugh!!
Where'd he get that voice!!!
Justin Gatlin --fastest man in the world(sp) killer body--his voice isn't all that uhhhh--becoming either!!
That's okay though--he doesn't have to say anything. Just stand there and look pretty lil' Justin from Brooklyn!!! Ummm-hmmm!
|
Crystal
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 81
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
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ABM: Oh No You Didn't! Incest??? A slap isn't strong enough. Where's my knife? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 914
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:20 pm: |
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Crystal,
YOU started it! I was just trynah undahstan whatchu was sayin'.
Hey! Anything that happens between consenting adults...whatever. 'Sides, at least you don't have the danger of reproducing some inbred kid with 3 eyes. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 915
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:22 pm: |
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Bleekindigo says: "...he doesn't have to say anything. Just stand there and look pretty..."
ABM says: I have tried to get my wife to do the same. But that chick jus' won't shut up. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1110
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:23 pm: |
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Yeah, Bleek, all of those track stars and gymnasts are really buffed. Eye candy. But maybe the testosterone of some of them got diluted in the conditioning process. Ya think? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 702
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:24 pm: |
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ya'll need to get a room, for real, for real... |
Crystal
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 82
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:27 pm: |
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Only if you come with us Yukio. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 917
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:31 pm: |
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Carl Lewis, former world recordholder in the 100 Meter dash => Gay!
Calvin Smith, another former world recordholder in the 100 Meter dash => Gay!
That Jamacian sprinter Crystal mention earlier => TRE GAY!
See a pattern forming here? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 918
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:34 pm: |
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Crystal,
"Only if you come with Yukio." I declare, gal. You are indeed a randy sort. You must have been a very 'popular' girl in college. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 919
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 03:39 pm: |
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Really. If you saw these track guys off-track, yawl might stop the fawning. They are bitchier than a pre-Midol J Lo and lil Kim. |
Crystal
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 84
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:07 pm: |
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Not really Abm. It's just that it's been a while and ... never mind. That's probably TMI and I don't want Carey to get mad at me too. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 922
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:32 pm: |
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Crystal,
That's okay, baby. We've got time. Maybe one day, over drinks, you can let your hur down and tell daddy all about it. |
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