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Scullars
Newbie Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 08:57 am: | 
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The media is really playing up Fuqua's association with this film, so I hope it kicks a**. Rarely does an Af-Am director get to do a mainstream film with such a large budget (Jerry Bruckheimer is the producer); I remember the Hughes Brothers adaptation of the graphic novel From Hell, and Bill Duke's Cemetery Club.
Bruckheimer indicated he's been trying to work with Fuqua for years and vice versa. It didn't hurt that Fuqua's Training Day garnered Denzel an Oscar. This depiction of Arthur is less romantic, more "real" as the movie is approaching Arthur not as a glorified myth, but a brutally capable military commander.
If this movie is successful, hopefully we'll see a little less ghettoization of black directions. For those of you unfamiliar with Fuqua (he's also directed videos), you might know his wife, Lela Rochon. |
Scullars
Newbie Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:04 am: |
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make that "black directors" ;-) |
Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:39 pm: |
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Fuqa's a genius and it seems he's been given the greenlight. He addresses current issues in his work and it's entertaining as heck. Fuqua, in my estimation, will be one of the great ones.
Tears of the Sun was high action big budget and he nailed it. Beautiful film about human rights. John Q was a drama but it was also a social commentary on the state of health care.
Training Day was...well Training Day was Training Day. But it's very cool to see an A-A director get a gig directing something that has nothing to do with A-As. It says a lot about the respect they have for him.
He's our most successful director to date from a commercial stand point, isn't he?
Fuqua's our Spielberg and Spike Lee is or Woody Allen. Would you agree?
Brian |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:23 pm: |
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Well, let's hope Spike doesn't have Allen's predilections, although he has built an impressive oeuvre. Haven't heard from him lately, though. Maybe he has something in the works.
As for Fuqua, he's still building his repetoire and reputation, and hopefully Hollywood will give him the chance to reach Spielberg's stature. Both gentlemen have made the road a lot easier for those Af-Am directors coming up behind them.
Now, if only we could hear some more from the sisters, including Kasi Lemmons, Julie Dash, Neema Barnett, Euzhan Palcy and others, who seem to have either only one or two films under their belts. Most likely, Hollywood politics have stymied their opportunities because I can't believe these women have only one story to tell and nothing more. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:39 am: |
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Hello Scullars and Brian
Scullars, I don't believe we've Meet, I've talked with Brian before. Anyway I love to talk about film and Directors. Brian believes Fuqua is a genious, well although some of his films have garnered reletive success, I've yet to see a film of his that would lead me to believe he's one. Really, I will admit that his choice of women is without doubt keen, I loved lela's small part in Harlem Nights. Every time I think about that white man calling home to his wife saying "hello son, tell your mother I'm not coming home", or something to that affect, I still laugh. Lela could make the strongest of men call home. But seriously, I still believe Spike is a better Director. Although Training Days allowed Denzel to showcase his talents the movie left much to be desired. Fuqua seems to have a handle on melodramatic corny plots. anyone that bought into John Q are the same ones you'll find crying watching Dumbo get locked up, come on now. His movies are feel good predictables. You had to have seen the poor action scenes in "Rising of The Sun", wow. One has to be careful mentioning Fuqua in the same breath with Spielberg, that's a stretch, to say the least. As for the widening of the road, the only thing that opens that door is money. You're right, if they, Fuqua and others are successful, the door will open. But I don't care if one is purple with dots, if the turnstiles ain't humming than ain't no money comin'. Your post was very interesting though, a breath of fresh air, but tell me how has hollywoods politics stymied the ladies you mentioned. Kasi and Julie had critics talking but did they turn a profit? Did they relieve the concerns of those that question the profitablity of an "A. A. Film" or Director? I mention this because as you know many go to see films for various reasons, some because of the actors, the event, and others purely because of the Director. So, is it politics or what, that has seemed to slow the pace of our queens rising to the top?
To tell you the truth, I'll even take Samuel's direction over Fuquas any day. Yes, Samuel Jackson.
Fuqua, one of the great ones huh, well I wish him well but in my opinion he needs.........well he needs to keep learning his craft, because he's not there yet.
Y'all will have to excuse me but I have to call my guy Thump in on this one. I'm Curious of what he thinks. Y'all do know that Thump not only reads like crazy but is also a movie guy. Oh yeah, don't tell too many people but he has a collection to die for.
Carey
Carey |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:12 am: |
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Hi Carey, nice to meet you.
I can't judge Fuqua right now; I'll need to see more of his works. But I hear good buzz about King Arthur, and that in itself is good because Hollywood is about money, but also about presence. If Fuqua presents as he should, then maybe other Af-Am's will be given the green light for their projects. And if he proves himself to be a solid director over time, then hopefully Hollywood will open doors as it did for Spielberg. But maybe I oversimplify.
My assumption about the women directors comes from an interview I did with Neema Barnett in 2000 for my ezine, Elan. She told about her problems in Hollywood. Below is the pertinent text:
There has been a lot of recent press about the lack of African-Americans in television and film, both in front of and behind the camera. Also, there has been a steady decline in jobs over the past few years for women directors. Can you provide some personal insight into the reasons for this and what can be done to change these negative trends?
Like I said earlier, film is a mind-molding business. It's the final frontier for us and it's a hard one to conquer. There're jobs and there’re movies. Listen, I'd rather concentrate on creating my own work and not lose energy knocking on white doors waiting for them to throw me a bone. Black women directors don't compromise their vision the way white producers want us to. So you work less. It's as simple as what you have to say. Black female directors want to make films about the stream of consciousness of black women, we want balanced images, we want to share our humor, our heavy drama as well as our dreams and fantasies and all the glories we've contributed to the world. But they want to keep the images of us that they've created. We're about re-coding and that's not what they want to hear. In the end, it never comes down to money, 'cause our films do make cash...it's about image control and fear of losing control. So we make our own smaller films, and the growing number of Black and Third World festivals allow audiences to see them. I'd rather be a queen in my own small kingdom than be a slave in someone else’s larger kingdom. As long as you don't judge yourself by society’s standards, but by your own, you'll be fine. I believe it's got to get ugly in order for change to occur. But then again, I'm a Harlem girl and came up under Malcolm and an entire Black Arts Movement that created individual voices of change and uncompromise...ya dig?
Then further in the interview:
Tell us a little about the projects you developed under your deal with Columbia/Sony.
I developed and wrote two scripts with my husband Reed McCants. One was about a Black town in Oklahoma called "Boley" and the other script "The Guide" was about a Harlem co-op. When the studio told us that it wasn't believable for the lead to own his own apartment in Harlem and that we should make him the super instead, we picked up our script and waited out our deal and left. A studio deal is useless unless the studio has Black executives who have an interest in telling Black stories and who can relate to the milieu. We had no one to pitch to and it was just a waste of time. Yeah I saw racism first hand and up front, but I already knew about that! Nothing new, yesterday’s news and still on the stand!
The full interview is at http://geocities.com/~cullars/mar-apr00/culture4.htm |
Ronn
Newbie Poster
Username: Ronn
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:42 am: |
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I mostly agree with Carey. Spike is my fav director because he takes chances. He doesn't always succeed, and he often confounds me (for an entire film, or long stretches within films), but he is uncompromising and original and strident when it comes to making his art.
That's why I can't wait to see his next film, She Hate Me = http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/she_hate_me.html . I can already see the critics and conservaf*cks (and I'm sure some "Queer" activists) lining up to denounce him. |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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Ronn I agree with what you and carey say about spike he is a good director.But,none of the spike lee's,forrest whitaker's john singleton or ice cube's would be no where without the Gordon Parks and the Melvin VanPeebles these two men along with other's paved the way.And yes they were primarly making those let me see I know I am spelling this wrong blaxplotation films of the 70s but they still have to be given their props.If it wasnt for them where would be now? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 710
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Excellent points, soulofaauthor! As for Spike Lee, nothin bugs him more than to be referred to as a "black Woody Allen." Lee is an original. And Fuqua is no Spielberg. I can't help but feel that Fuqua jumped on the bandwagon with his King Arthur outing. Everybody is trying to duplicate The Lord of the Rings' phenomenal success by opting for legendary epics. I think Fuqua could've better showcased what talent he has by doing something other than a special effects showcase. |
Ronn
Newbie Poster
Username: Ronn
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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Soulofaauthor & Cynique:
Good points. I love me some Gordon Parks — although more for his photography — but I'm writing about the here and now, and, the future really. I have no doubt that Spike and Fuqua will have plenty of films to direct in the future. I'm hoping Spike wins out tho, because Fuqua is a defacto insider and Spike is more innovative and a mentor and encourages youngsters via internships and advocacy. |
Soulofaauthor
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 76
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 02:39 pm: |
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Ronn don't get me wrong I am not saying that Spike doen't deserve his prop's but I am also saying none of these director's would be anywhere without Mr.Parks and Mr.VanPebbles.Ok here's a question what in your favorite Spike Lee Joint.I would have to say Malcolm X.I am a movie and book person and to me anytime I read a book first and the movie is made and I am just as engrossed in the movie as I was in the book it's a winner.The Color Purple did it for me.I don't know why Wting to exhale just didnt do it I enjoyed the book but the movie just didnt do anything for me.Could it have been who they choose to play the charcter's? Now Ms Bassett played her charcter but her supporting cast just didnt do it for me. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 64
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 04:01 pm: |
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Very good reading. I just dropped in and have to go back and flips some hotdogs and burgers but I hsave a whole lot to say on this thread, yes I do. Be back.
Carey |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 67
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:10 pm: |
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Hello Souloffherfather
To tell you the truth, it sounds good but MelvinVanpeople didn't have a thing to do with Spikes success and if "BadAss" was never made it wouldn't have meant a thing to Spikes career. But of course, my hat's off to the brothas but lets not get it twisted.....really. For sure Parks has his place in history but when you imply that Spike climbed on his back that's just not true.
I see you mention Singleton. He blew it! He had the world at his finger tips and what did he do withh it........he gave us garbage. Now forrest is one hellava actor. Did you ever see the crying game, that's when he first caught my eye, the boy can act. He's done some directing but I can't think of what.....nothing is jumping out at me. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 68
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
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Hello Scullars
That was a very interesting interview. I was surprised to read her say it wasn't about the money "because our films do make cash". I'd sure like to read or see the numbers. I say that because some cash ain't worth the worry, if you know what I mean. But, again, I'd be interested in knowing what kind of money she's talking about.
It's always nice to read about strong blacks taking their talent with them rather than sit at the feet of those who would reshape our world our stories, yeah, I like that. Thanks for sharing that with us Scullars. I have not read the whole link, it's posible that if I do I might find some answers to my questions and If I do.......well I'll come back and share.
Carey |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 69
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 10:28 pm: |
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By the way, Scullars, I loved the Hughe's "From Hell", I thought it was well done, very suspenseful, very professional. |
Brian_egeston
Regular Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 12:11 am: |
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Hmmm. So you say Fuqua's not there yet. I'd have to argue with that. I thought that Tears of the Sun was very well done and it was a relevant piece. It was about genocide, human rights, politics and pride. It was meant to shed light on a situation that does not get enough attention. And it had a plot. A clearly defined plot. Much the way the Spielberg's pieces are all wonderfully plotted gems. Save for Color Purple.
You know, there was a time when I was the first cat to see a Spike Lee film. I fell in love with him in college, followed him afterwards and then we had a bad break up years later. I wanted more from the relationship and he wanted me to broaden my horizons with something called Girl 6? After that, we had a tough time. But he made up to me with Malcolm X. Which, by the way is one of the best films ever and it's the role Denzel should have got an Oscar for. And then I began noticing this quirk. I just couldn't stomach the interruptions in the story. The 25th hour is a prime example. BEEEEAUTIFUL work (except for the drawn out club scene- but otherwise a BEEEAUTIFUL movie. And then Edward Norton goes into this ten minute lament about...I'm still trying to figure out what. But it was as though, I was riding a brand new Harley and it starts to sputter until it magically transforms into a tricycle that I'm forced to ride to the shop and get my Harley repaired so that I can try and remember what the ride was like initially.
Maybe I'm just a story purist and I like to be entertained, taught, inspired, enlightened, thrilled, educated and challenged with a beginning middle and end with plot points thrown in there somewhere. Lawd don't get me started about Bamboozled. It was a great movie, until the marathon montage of jigaboo dolls. Had it not been for Mos Def and Pierre, I'm not sure I would have made it through. In comparison, Dancing in September accomplished the same thing as bamboozled, but with a clearly defined storyline.
Carey, I would have to say Fuqua is a genius is that, he's doing it. He's making big budget flicks, he's making money for the studios and he's making, what I think, are relevant films. I'd dare to say that Spike accomplished what Fuqua has in the same amount of time. As far as his craft, the films flow, my eye is pleased, my emotions are moved, the actors are mostly transparent, and the story works(well John Q was a bit of a stretch). The lighting...well that's not his job. But the sets are beautiful(especially Tears... even though they filmed in Hawaii becuase they would have been killed had the filmed in Africa.)
Spielberg's a genius and Spielberg was making money for the studios almost right out of film school.
Woody Allen...is Woody Allen.
I can't think of many directors that are still playing the game(I mean an active productive starting five role) if they haven't had commercial success. Fuqua's doing that and if he keeps it up, he'll get the green light pretty soon and will be able to make movies about a man living in an airport or a con artist who becomes a Pan Am pilot, or whatever he wants to do. I guess I would have to say that genius comes in various froms. One of those forms being the ability to make relevant films and being invited back to the party. What good would it have done Shakespeare to write beautifully crafted plays that the playhouse never wanted to stage?
I'm surprised you didn't enjoy Tears of the Sun.
I love Spike and will continue to support him, but Fuqua's the man right now. I'm sure there is a line of A-A directors that will eat Fuqua's lunch, but he's at the party right now and in my opinion, he's poppin' and lockin' better than anyone else.
Sam Jackson directing? What has he directed? I must have missed that. I give Sam Jackson mad props for paying dues for YEEEEAARS!
Now what you really need to be talking about is...What in the world happened to Robert Townsend. I think he's pretty much our equivalent to a really good self-published writer. I'll watch Five Heartbeats until my eyes bleed. "Nights like this. I wish raindrops would fall-a-hahh-alll. I'm Eddie Cane!"
You know what I want? I want a black Steven Soderbergh. Carey, could you get me one of those for Christmas?
Brian
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Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 01:30 am: |
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Carey, I also liked From Hell, even though I am not one for graphic violence, and this had some gory scenes. However, I read some message boards where graphic novel fans wrote that they thought the depiction wasn't true to the novel, but no one laid the gauntlet of blame at the Hughes brothers' feet.
I am interested in cross cultural directing, because it is so rare, especially in the States. But Ang Lee did a good job with The Ice Storm and in his very English adaptation of Sense and Sensibility (filmed in England, of course), eliciting an Oscar winning performance from Kate Winslet. Another cross-cultural director I keep tabs on is Mina Nair, who directed Denzel in Mississippi Masala and who, amazingly, nailed the desperation and ennui of two New Jerseyites looking for love in Hysterical Blindness, an HBO production, getting phenomenal performances from Uma Thurman and Gena Rowlands. I also like her Indian productions, especially Monsoon Wedding.
These are the only two I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there may be one or two more out there.
I point to these directors as examples that nothing, especially skin color or native culture, should limit someone from telling a story considered "someone else's." So with Fuqua laying claim to Arthur's story, which I'm sure has many staunch Arthur enthusiast up in arms, this is just another knick at the stone barrier that has been ghettoizing directors, and for that matter, screenwriters or writers, in general. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 712
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 01:36 pm: |
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Fuqua is merely directing King Arthur. The screen play is based on a book which sought to debunk the romanticism associated with the legend of King Arthur, and to show that he was nothing more than a Celtic war lord. That's fine. But is it something that will make for a good movie? We'll see. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 713
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 01:50 pm: |
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So many of you are playing fast and loose with the word "genius." If the fact that a director's movies make money is a sign of being a genius, then Keenay Ivory Wayans should be at the of the heap. All of those goofy movies starring his brothers and which are directed by him always make a ton of money at the box office. Maybe a distinction should be made between a commercial genius and an artistic one. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 70
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
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Cynique, yep, yep re: Money = genius ??? I don't know who made that claim but nevertheless I agree.
Scullars, thanks for stopping in. You bring out very interesting discussions. Ang Lee, now you're talking, although he too has let me down on occasion, however you can expect the unexpected from him. Check out is road map, talkin' about moving around. The guy goes from The Ice Storm and Crouching Tiger to the Hulk and oh yeah, he does Ride the Devil with my real "look out for" Jeffrey Wright. It seems to me that Lee's Taiwanesse roots, his background, calls him to go over the top, which is a turnoff to me but I understand his motivations. I would be more apt to write his name in the "genious to watch out for" than others mentioned. You just had to open this up to color  . But scullars, you know there are advantages to colors IF your color is not black. That's a whole different subject isn't it and we do not have the space or the time....well, I don't have the feelings to discuss it.
I have to admit that you stumped me with Mina Nair. I'm familair with some of her work but didn't even know a thang about her.
For the record, if you make me go to my dictionary more times than ABM, I'm going to have to "ennui" you *lol*.
But thanks for letting me enjoy your obvious expertise in the field. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 71
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:32 pm: |
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Brain, your most recent post reminds me of one of mine. Not any special one but just the way it moved in and out like one would talk. Having said that, I'm still trying to find a place to jump in at. Every time I read it I'm hit with another thought that I'd like to run with and then I forget what it was I was reffering to . So brian, I agree with much of what you said and until I can slow this head down of mine, I'll be seeing you later.
Carey |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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Carey--
Don't ennui me, please.
:-) |
Ronn
Newbie Poster
Username: Ronn
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:31 am: |
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I am biased towards Spike because he's a Brooklyn man, just like me. And also because he writes many of his movies and is soooo involved in every aspect. Fuqua, he's a studio hack to me. He's been a part of the old boy's network and will always have work. It's just not work I care to pay to watch.
I *liked* Malcolm X, but as with most of his movies, Spike muddled the story during the latter part. He has an annoying habit of doing that. I really can't decide on which of his movies is the best right now.
I love the work of Ang Lee, and Nair. I also love the work of Taiwanese director Tsai Ming-Liang. I'm fascinated with the continual use of the same three actors for 4/5 movies to play the same family with differing lives.
The Hughes brothers have potential that has yet to be realized. Altho I did enjoy From Hell. Too bad they choose to use that flimsy Ripper scenario. Im available if they want to get it right! LOL
I'm hoping someone will pick up their pen to script a few of Walter Moseley's books. Not just the Easy Rawlins series, but RL's Dream, more Socrates, and mos def his Speculative Fiction. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:39 am: |
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I'd say that I would like to see some of Octavia Butler's work brought to the screen, but I'm wary of how it would interpret to celluloid and who would be imaginative and astute enough to make that translation work.
As it is, Blair Underwood, I believe, is either directing or producing Tanarive's Due My Soul to Keep, but that's been in the works for years now. Must be funding holding it up. I just hoped that when it finally comes to screen, it does the book justice. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 429
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:20 am: |
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Spike usually writes, directs, produces and stars in his films. Fuqua merely directs.
And the subject matter Lee explores is of a much riskier, more dicey and provocative nature than Fuqua’s.
So while I agree Fuqua has had a better recent directorial run than has Lee, Spike is, BY FAR, the superior artiste. And, in spite of his his cinematic miscues, Spike is much more deserving of the "genius" tag than is Fuqua.
BTW: "Do the Right Thing" (not "Malcolm X") is Lee’s Magnum Opus. "...Thing" is one of the best American films made in the last 20 years. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 355
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:14 pm: |
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Abm:
You're wrong there playa. Malcolm X is the Magnum Opus and though "Thing" is one of the best, Malcolm X was better. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 430
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Chris,
We'll agree to disagree on this one.
"Malcolm X" was as much a product of Denzel's fine acting as it was Lee's direction. But Lee's "Do the Right Thing" was first/foremost a virtuoso directorial (and writing) performance.
Also, much of the acclaim that is bestowed upon "X" is borne from the regard many of us harbor for it beloved subject. But "...Thing" was a creation that was unique unto itself.
"Do the Right Thing" ranks with ANY film ever produced about race in America. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 715
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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In my unhumble opinion, Malcolm X missed the mark. Especially since, as anyone who has read biographies of Malcolm by writers other than Alex Haley knowns, the movie was full of inaccuracies. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 356
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:50 pm: |
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Cynique:
All biographical movies are full of inaccuracies. This one was great, inaccuracies and all. You can see Spike ain't put out nothing much since then--I know he has put out a number of movies but he's out of gas.
Took it all out of the little fella. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 716
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:06 pm: |
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Yeah, inaccuracies are common in movies based on real-live people, but I was really not that impressed with Spike's disjointed version of the Malcolm X story. Nor were the critics, not that that matters. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 357
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:12 pm: |
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Cynique:
The critics are cowardly poltroons, genetic defectives, hysterical women, Uncle Toms, racist white devils, and backstabbing Asiatics (Did I get 'em all?) what do ya expect?
Oh, wow! Look at the time! It totally slipped my mind. Ain't it about time for another Cynique poem? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 431
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:21 pm: |
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Scullars,
The ONLY thing that will fully open up the cinematic game to Blacks is for Blacks to be able to FINANCE and DISTRIBUTE feature films.
I believe Spike Lee himself has said that there is not ONE African American who can "green-light" a major feature film. And by that he means NONE of us have FINAL APPROVAL of the millions dollars and scores of equipment, supplies and human capital it takes to make/distribute a film.
Sure there are some of us who have the "ear" to those who have that power. Still, we must go hat-in-hand to others to ‘hustle’ for what we need.
And it is like anything else in America: He who pays the pipers gets to call the tune.
As long as that is the paradigm upon which we must enter the film making game; Black film makers, directors, actors will continue to be intractably beholden to the biased, fitful, erroneous cinematic whims of others. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:53 pm: |
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Ahh ABM, you are definitely right on that point. No one Af-Am writer, director and esp. producer has the kinda money needed to continually bring our stories to the screen. Yes, there are financing angels like Bill Cosby and Janet Jackson, who gave money to the Malcolm X project, but individuals can stretch their wallets only so far. And, even though there is a mass wealth of capital in the black community, I don't think that even if we as a people pooled our resources, there would be a consensus to use it for the arts. That money is needed so much more in our schools and community development.
So, we'll have to take it project by project. There's always the indie route, but independent films suffer from lack of distribution. Still, if the movie can be made, maybe a more creative alternative can be found to distribute the projects.
I think direct marketing is the answer. Prince showed the way with his taking his music directly to the buyers via his website. Probably, Af-Am directors and producers should refocus their energies to getting it to the people without the distributor-middleman. If the film can't be shown en masse at the theater, maybe it can be downloaded from a website for a fee, or pressed onto CD's (hey, that's how the rapper artists get their starts) and sold directly to the buyer. Maybe, we as the audience have to forgo the big theater experience of large screens and buttered popcorn (well, there's always Jiffy Pop), and open the market for alternative distributions. That way, ingenuitive directors who can scare up creative financing (a la Robert Townsend) will at least have a venue to get their creations to the masses.
Just a thought. Or several compiled thoughts. :-) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 358
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:32 pm: |
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Abm:
You can get it made, you can get a distributor to pick it up, can you get it shown?
There are people who are already in the movie business and they don't like competition. Look at all the grief Mel Gibson had to go through, and he had plenty of money to make the film.
You say, but look at what he did, but you didn't have to do interviews where you denied being an anti semite (and take crank calls and get crazy letters at your home or office)
There is this book featuring black film directors and producers (Why We Make Films?) I'll have to check.
Anyway, it featured stories by Ossie Davis about what happened to "Countdown at Kusini", the film the Deltas made, and "To Sleep With Anger" among other films.
Let's just say this--the studios and filmmakers ain't interested in competition. They can put the squeeze on theater owners ("Oh, you wanna show Abm's new film? Or Spider-man 2. Make up your mind, now...)
In addition you got the old "give credit for your box office to some other flick" dodge. (I had this happen to me in St. Louis once--looked at my ticket stub for Panther and it was to another film).
Raising the money to make it and making it are tough enough--and after you go through all that (including trying to explain to your investors, stars, etc why you are losing your shirt and where the flick is) it ain't worth it.
People talk about how they showed "Sankfofa" but who wants to take time out of their life to hump a film across the country literally on their back--
I don't know what the answer is. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 432
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
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Chris,
To refine a point: I include getting a film shown to be within the apparatus of what it means to DISTRIBUTE a films. So on your basic point, we agree: Here is where much of the problem exist.
I think the only way for Black to remedy this issue is to build/acquire movie theaters. And there has been some movement in that regard (perhaps the most famous of such being the Magic Johnsons Theatres). As Black control more theaters, we can dictate what movie distributors/producers finance/create.
And Mel Gibson actually provides what might be an effectively alternative movie marketing program. Rather than rely on the tradition advertising channels, he marketed his film directly to Christain groups. And he plied that famous puss of his any/everyway within the the eye/ear shot of a camera/mic until you all most HAD to see his film. Obviously, he enjoyed the benefit of his celebrity. But surely a Denzel Washington could do much the same.
But issue can’t be achieved on a individual basis. To succeed, there must be many of us to come together who have the means/skills/drive to acquire/build/market enuff films/theaters to challenge the Hollywood status quo. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 717
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
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Are we talking about all-black movies or movies that would appeal to black audiences because they star black actors?? There are so many variables involved when it comes to the distribution factor. I submit that a black-oriented film with a money-making potential will have just as good a chance of obtaining a distributor as any other film. It's about the the bottom line: profit. All indy film-makers whine about not being able to get a distributor. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 09:28 am: |
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Oh-oh --
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2004/07/07/king_arthur/index.html |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 436
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
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Cynique,
I agree that certain Black-theme movies enjoy favor among movie distributors/producers. But such movies often provide a very narrow and distorted (and often buffonish) perspective of Blacks.
And I agree that film makers most apt to pursue the profit above all else. That in of itself isn't bad. The problem occurs when people with a very narrow/biased perspective assumes that only certain films about Blacks.
But the game is changing.
Take your native Chicago as an example. Five years ago, how many movie producers/distributors would have believed a film featuring Black barbers - sans gratuitous sex, drugs and violence - would be successful? Very few. But now Chicago's "The Barbershop I & II" have been so successful that they have even begotten an (upcoming) spin-off "The Beauty Shop".
So, perhaps filmakers like those who created/produced those films can provide part of the blueprint for what is needed to expand our power in cinema. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 721
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 11:40 am: |
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I hear what you're saying, Abm. Others say that the motion picture industry is currently controlled by Jews and Gays. So black folks do have their work cut out for them. |
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