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Justwrite
Veteran Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 70
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:14 pm: | 
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How many novels have you guys read with grammatical errors and how do you feel when you spot the errors? Does it ruin your mood?
I feel so bad right now, 'cause my novel is up for sale, meaning it's sitting on book shelves right now WITH ERRORS! I've checked over my material SO MANY FREAKIN' TIMES AND STILL I FOUND ANOTHER ERROR!!!! Needless to say, my book has been edited! These errors are very minor, but STILL! I want a perfect book! True enough, the author feels like shit when this happens as I do, but how does the reader feel???? |
Justwrite
Veteran Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 71
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:22 pm: |
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I know many of you find this hilarious since I've corrected a lot of your postings in fun, however, this right now AIN'T FUN, so PLEASE, keep your unwanted words to yourself! Thank you. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 396
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:23 pm: |
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Justwrite,
Don't sweat it.
Since I have been an adult, I have observed errors of some sort in almost EVERY BOOK that I have ever read. That includes novels, (auto)biographies, how-to books, text books, reference books, etc.
If the errors are "very minor", it is unlikely that most reader will even notice them. And the few who do likely won't care. |
Justwrite
Veteran Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 72
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
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Oh, thank you ABM! I was in tears thinking of how stupid my novel must look compared to others! One of the mistakes I've found was:
Connie slammed the door and locked it. "You know what...I don't need this shi!" she yelled.
I forgot the "T" at the end. Think people will notice??? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 398
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:56 pm: |
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Perhaps they might. But most novels contain +50,000 words. So it is probable that most might just gloss over it without ever noticing it.
And even those who do notice it probably won't care. Some will consider it a printing error. Others may blame the editor. Others may even think that is what you intended to say. Either way, assume there are few of these errors, this should have virtually ZERO effect on the readers perception of the quality of your book.
Unless of course your book is awful, in which case they might use that and every other conceivable gaffe to deride your writing.
So I hope your book is good.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 674
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 02:32 pm: |
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No denying that errors take away from the professionalism of a book. And take it from someone who knows, an author should never do her own proof-reading. I have found, however, that if the text has good flow, the reader will automatically supply omitted words. I'm sure there are many people who will overlook errors, but I hold authors to a high standard and think they owe me the courtesy of error-free writing. |
Akaivyleaf
Veteran Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:15 pm: |
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I don't think there is a "perfect" book out there. I think they all contain some errors but as others have expressed, if they aren't numerous- readers can and do gloss right over them and reviewers excuse them.
I think you're hard on yourself because its your baby, but don't cry over what you can't change and for the next printing, you're aware of what needs to be corrected. Please notice the positives in the phrase "next printing", and go from there with your head held high that you've published your work and it will sell.
I expect the errors to be minimal, if every page has an error I'll think that there was not enough attention paid to the logistics of print and the nuances of English and that the author didn't care so why should I.
And one final thing, the error you pointed to in a previous post, the exclusion of a "T", I've heard people stop short of saying the curse word so I don't know as if I would have noticed that as being an error if it was in line with the character. That would be determined through reading the novel. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 338
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:17 pm: |
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Justwrite:
Abm is right (although I can't break the hold them comic books got on the brother)
They issue editions of Ulysees with pages and pages of what they call erratum. In a printed piece with thousands and thousands of characters it is inevitable that some will come out wrong.
Just pick it up on the 2nd printing |
Justwrite
Veteran Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 73
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 04:02 pm: |
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Thanks to everyone WHO understood. You made me feel SO much better, and yes, the problem(s) has been fixed for the next go around.
Thanks guys. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 679
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:23 pm: |
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Since I'm sure I was not included in the "WHOs" you were thanking, I would further just say that I've read more book without errors than I have ones with them. And you are right to feel bad about your missteps. Those who are consoling you are compassionate people. Me, I will simply say that, in moving on, you should learn from your mistakes. |
Justwrite
Veteran Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 74
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:46 pm: |
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Yeah, thanks, Cynique. You can move on to something else now.
See Thumper! I'm handling it like a laaaaydie... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 401
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:48 pm: |
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Cynique,
Of course you must fullfil the promise of your contrarian namesake. But really, what is there for Justwrite to "learn"? What happen was a mistake. And if there were only a few of these, than they were acceptable.
Hey, if she read her book (probably countless times), as did an editor(s) and (probably) several other people as well, then there really isn't much else that could have been done to prevent the error(s).
So all that she can do now is ensure the book's next printing is cleaner than its predecessor.
Also, Justwrite, are you SURE this wasn't a printing problem? Printers - like writers and editors - make mistakes too.
Lastly, I never blame an author of minor spelling/gramar glitches. It is very difficult for one person to effectively write and edit a story. Those jobs have similar yet very distinct objectives. Simply, it is the job of an author to 'write' a story. It is the job of the editor to ensure that what the author 'write' is 'right'. Assuming there were no printing problems - it is more the editor, not the author, who is to blame. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 402
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:58 pm: |
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Black Girls are so funny. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 76
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
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Abm,
Thanks dude. I needed to hear that. Really! Man, you don't know how I feel right now. I paid the editor x-amounts of dollars to do her thing, and no, I'm not mad at her (in case she's reading), but that just goes to show you that "writing is re-writing". It's hard, man! These big publishing houses got TWENTY EDITORS to make sure shit is right! It's just lil' ol' me to make sure things are done right! I can tell you so many horror stories with my printing company, editing, script writer, etc. This has not been a smooth process. But like with anything else, you gotta chalk it up, stick out your chest, and handle it. For real, folks! That's the only way you'll accomplish anything in life. Take it from me. Cynique, you think you can do what I do? I won't even mention doing it better! You've probably never written anything, nor had it published! Am I right or am I right? Don't be so quick to point the finger, young lady. This has been a long, hard process! |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:37 pm: |
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Justwrite girl all the best of them have errors.I won't mention this authors name but this person is very popular and man does she have some errors in her books.But I like her wrting so well I just look over them.And I am sure everybody will do the same for you.And Btw Cynique's is a published author.The name of her book is ALONG THE WAY a black family's journey. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 77
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:40 pm: |
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Soul...
You beat my to the post. Yes, Cynique, you're a self-published author like many of us are, but guess what, sweetie, YOUR BOOK ALSO HAS ERRORS!!!! Damn, did you set yourself up on that one.
Thanks so-and-so! I just read your email, girl!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 681
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:41 pm: |
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Oh shut up, Abm. This is an A & B conversation, so just C your way out of it. LOL
Justwrite, your resume doesn't interest me cuz I ain't on your payroll. But, for the record I am a former newspaper columnist and have written a self-published book which I made the mistake of proof-reading myself. And I learned from that. And the first mistake you need to learn from is to be sure of the competency of your next editor because who ever it was obviouly didn't catch the error which cost you so much angst. Whatever. You relayed your sad story and people told you what you wanted to hear. But, sometimes you can learn from people telling you what you don't want to hear. Your marathon rationales don't void the fact that an error is not something you or anybody else should take lightly. You realized this but you wanted people to tell you otherwise. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 682
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:51 pm: |
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Oh, yes, justwrite, rest asssured I won't be reading your "shit". I can't imagine a loose cannon like you writing a good book. |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 63
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:52 pm: |
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Ok everybody let me play devils advocate as they say but justwrite if you didnt even know cynique had wrote a book a few minutes ago how do you know it had errors in it? AND btw what did everybody think of Rick james on the bet awards last night? |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:52 pm: |
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Justwrite, your resume doesn't interest me cuz I ain't on your payroll...
Am I the only one lost by this sentence??? Oh, nevermind!!!
Cynique, where can I find your book? No, seriously, I want to read it! |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 79
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:54 pm: |
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Rick James looked a mess!
I know, 'cause my girl, A-Woman (sorry, A) told me!
And Cynique, all I got to say is GOOD! At least I won't have to worry about the negative review!
Now, again I ask you, where can I find your freakin' book?? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 683
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:59 pm: |
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My book was never marketed, justwrite. I learned from my mistakes.
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Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 80
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:59 pm: |
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Rick James looked a mess!
Beyonce's hair looked a mess, but her dress was hot!
The Raven girl (cute little Cosby girl) looked a COMPLETE MESS!
Gabriel Union (btw, people say I look like her, what do you guys think?) Oh, nevermind! She looked really classy!
Usher is trying to start a new fashion trend, which ain't working (the jacket gotta go, Usher, if you're reading this).
Vivica Fox looked pretty old.
Brandy, I think, looked good.
Jay-Z was THE MAN! He's still ugly as hell, though!
I'ma leave this alone now. I don't want to get kicked off the board for not talking "literature". Hey, Soul, were you trying to set me up???? |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 81
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:01 pm: |
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Cynique, you say that so freely. What do you mean your book was never marketed? Did you give up? Did you put it out and it didn't go anywhere? What do you mean? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 684
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:08 pm: |
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I figured "a-womon" hipped you to the mistakes in my book, justwrite, cause I know you two are tight. Did she also tell you that I referred to my book as a generic paperback, whose flaws I was well-aware of?
BTW, your critique of the Soul Train awards was very negative - and I loved every word it. Write some more. (How could you give Monique a pass?) |
Jmho
Veteran Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 61
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
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Cyrnique wrote:
Since I'm sure I was not included in the "WHOs" you were thanking, I would further just say that I've read more book without errors than I have ones with them. And you are right to feel bad about your missteps. Those who are consoling you are compassionate people. Me, I will simply say that, in moving on, you should learn from your mistakes.
I guess I am not in the WHOS either. It amazes me that people will pay full price for defective merchandise. Usually, in any other industry, you get a reduced price for such, even if the defect doesn't impede or interfere with the operation of said merchandise.
I think if readers like the author then they tend to overlook the error*s*, yet if they don't, then that's one of many complaints they have about the book when voiceing what they didn't like about the book. Sometimes you don't notice the errors while reading and other times they stick out like a sore thumb. A misspelling here or there, isn't that bad but then some authors have major errors in plotlines and such and those you really can't overlook, no matter how well-meaning the author may be.
Justwrite asked in the initial post wrote: "How many novels have you guys read with grammatical errors and how do you feel when you spot the errors?" And, then came right back and wrote: "so PLEASE, keep your unwanted words to yourself!"
Why ask someone how they feel about something and then in the next breath said, BUT only tell me the good?
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Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 64
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:16 pm: |
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Since both Cynique and Justwrite are now published author's I have a question to ask both of you.Were their ever times where you had days where you just couldnt write a thing? I am at that point now.And also I am my worst critic did ya'll feel that way about your work? You know everyubody who read it said it was good but you just wasn't feeling it? |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:19 pm: |
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You know what, Cynique, A-woman was pissed that I put her out there like that. She told me to tell you that she respects what you do! I was the asshole in this case! I'm sorry, A-woman! Actually, she didn't say your book had errors. That was my two cents. But you know what, Cynique, whether it had errors or not, you tried baby-girl. Know what I'm saying? How many muafu...can say they wrote ANYTHING??? Everybody wanna be a "whatever"! You name it, muafu...wanna be it, and can do it better than you! N-E-WAY...
What's wrong with us ladies? We tear each other's heads off, then it's like, "keep ya head up, girl!" Or maybe it's just me...
Monique was the bomb! She was working those dresses! Teena Marie, though...can somebody say GURDLE???? |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 65
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:22 pm: |
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Btw justwrite girl look at this face now does it look like a face that would try to set you up?And I agree little Raven is way to cute for the way somebody had her looking.She looked like a clown to me.All I heard today is how Rick James clowned.It was still good to see him and teena together again.And the ole school rapper's brought back some real memories.Melle mel still fine as ever. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:23 pm: |
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Jmho: SAVE IT! PLEASE! IT'S OVER!
Soul: I don't know about Cynique, but it took five years to complete The Last Bad Decision. What does that tell you! I was stuck to the point where I had a put it down for two whole years!!! And the "How to Avoid Writers Block" books don't help! They didn't help me. Know what helped me? My imagination. I just sat back one day and let my mind run free. I don't know, so far everyone's been loving my material. |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 66
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:24 pm: |
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lmao Justwrite yea we can say GURDLE but I don't think teena can |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:41 pm: |
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One thing I've learned from the post here is that I'M NOT THE ONLY AUTHOR THAT FU$@&! UP! That makes me feel ten-times better. Looks like you've ran across a lot of books with errors, Jmho. The only book I can remember reading with an error was Mary Morrison's He's Just A Friend. Does any of you know this author? Have you read the book?
Can I say something? I can? Okay...
You know what problem I have with black authors? When reading their books, the narrarator (is that spelled right) sounds too much like the characters! Example:
John said, "I've been feelin' you for a long time. I just wanna know when can I hit it?"
Tasha looked at John's di%$ and said, "I was wondering when you would ask."
Tasha and John fu*&#$ until the morning sun came up. John ate Tasha's pu**% so good, Tasha couldn't get out of bed to go to work.
I'm sorry people, I think the only "dirty talk" should be between the characters! Maybe I'm just old fashion. But just for the record, that's what a lot of black authors do. And quite frankly, I think too much "dirty talk" is boring. Leave some shit to the imagination!
Is that what He's Just A Friend entailed? Hmmm...you'll have to read it and find out. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 685
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:42 pm: |
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Its very hard for people to believe that self-publishing books is like a hobby to me. It's fun to do especially if you create them on a word-processor. Since I am now retired and have a lot of time on my hands, making up a book as I went along was great fun. I only had 500 copies of my last book printed up and I sold most of them to family and friends. Because my book is so short, I knew it wouldn't create much interest in a big publishing house, and once I'm through with a book, I'm through with it. Some people have suggested that I expand this book, but I'm just not interested in doing a re-write because then writing becomes as chore. I'm playing around with another book which I might have printed up. Once again, it's short, and I'm having fun doing it. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 07:45 pm: |
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I have a literary question...
What's the correct grammar here?
"Yes, I'm up for dinner tonight," Tasha said, and twirled the phone cord around her finger.
OR
"Yes, I'm up for dinner tonight," Tasha said and twirled the phone cord around her finger.
Is there a comma after "said"? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 687
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:23 pm: |
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Where a comma should be placed has nothing to do with grammar but is, instead, a matter of punctuation. Grammar deals with parts of speech and syntax.
Why don't you avoid connecting two unrelated phrases and simply write: Tasha twirled the phone cord around her finger. "Yes, I'm up for dinner tonight," she said. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 86
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:27 am: |
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Yeah, you're right, Cynique. Punctuation. My bad. And true enough, you can even avoid connecting two unrelated phrases, however, my question is still my question. That's not getting smart. It's just that I really need to know the answer. Does anyone know? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 403
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 03:09 am: |
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Justwrite,
Alright. I'll play "English Teacher".
No comma is needed after "said". If, however, what followed "and" qualified as an independent clause or "...she twirled the phone cord around her finger," a comma would be necessary. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:27 am: |
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How about:
"Yes, I'm up for dinner tonight," Tasha said as she twirled the telephone cord around her finger. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 688
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 01:09 pm: |
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There are no hard and fast rules about commas. It's your option as to whether you want to place a comma between those 2 phrases. Nowadays, you can establish your own practice of using commas within a book as long as your pattern is consistent throughout the text. And of course, it doesn't hurt to adhere to the old adage: "when in doubt, leave it out." |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 411
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
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Lambd,
No comma need. The rule I cited above applies if the independent clause is preceeded by "and", but not by "as". |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:05 pm: |
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ABM, you're right here, buddy. Question, though, if you put a comma after "said" is it considered wrong? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 694
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:21 pm: |
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Why don't you consult a book on punctuation if you want a definitive answer, justwrite? I still maintain that the rules about commas have become very flexible over the years. There is no such thing as "wrong" or "right." It's about "style." |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 185
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:28 pm: |
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Thank you, Abm, but I was just giving Jezrite another option. A way to 'opt-out' if you will. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 416
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:57 pm: |
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Justwrite,
Well, I am just rattling off what I recall of the strictures of that most venerable of literary grammar/style reference guides: "Strunk & White's: The Elements of Style" (Editorial: Shame on the writers out there who do not regularly review this most precious of literary guides.).
I concur with the essence of what Cynique is saying...the language/writing rules are organic, and they evolve to suit what's most efficient for today's discourse. So how/what we write must change accordingly.
But there must be some standards, if for no other reason but to provide an opportunity for people of varying background to effectively communicate.
In the examples you and Lambd cite, you are 'splitting hairs' that all but perhaps the most anal grammar wonks (present company included) would ever have a care to notice. So if these are the gravest concern you have about what you write, I would surmise that you are in pretty good shape.
And, to answer you latest question: I would say no, it probably would not be considered "wrong". But uptight grammar types would assert that it is less than being completely 'right'. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 88
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 05:05 pm: |
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You're too cute, Abm. Thanks for putting an end to the rollercoaster ride and simply answering the question. It's much appreciated, dude. Anything you need, you let me know, kay? Well, as long as it ain't sex, money, asking can you lend my car, a place to stay, or having your back in a fight match! Anything else, though, just holla! |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:50 pm: |
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Comma no comma see that's where my ghetto butt going to get in trouble.Dang and I just know I am going to have some spell checker emailing saying things like you didnt use the correct verbs.You didnt have this comma in the right place and so and so.I have seen A very popular author on this site that makes all kinds of errors and I have never once seen anyone mention them since I have been coming here.She has even mentioned music that was according to her that was out in the 70's that I know wasn't out till the 80's.But since I like her wrting skills I ignore it.As I know we all do.It's all about reading for enjoyment.Otherwise it just isn't so much fun anymore at least not for me.Sometimes I'm sure writer's make errors cause dang ya'll it just read's betters. |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 183
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 10:14 pm: |
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Hello All,
I'm sorry but in today's age, when folks are plucking down between $10-$25 for a book, it has no business having any errors in it.
SOA, I've been a culprit of using the FR (Forgive Reading) method myself, especially when the story is popping. But, if I was an author, I wouldn't make it a habit of publishing books with error in them.
Justwrite: Hey there. Could you please drop me an email concerning one of your June 30 post to this thread, its the one that was on the board, but I have since deleted it. I would appreciate it. Thanks. *smile* |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 699
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:31 pm: |
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soulofaauthor, you are to be commended for your restraint. But, actually, if somebody dispenses mis-information, you should certainly feel free to correct it. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 91
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 02:01 am: |
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Huh, Thumper?
Y'all know this guy better than I do...what is he talking about? Am I in trouble AGAIN and just too lame to realize it? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 186
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 07:48 am: |
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Justwrite: Yes! If Big Daddy calls you, he probably wants you to go out in the yard and get a
switch. You just too lame to realize it. When you change your name and come back, give us some hints so we know who your lame ass is.
Abm: Damn, son! I thought you wuz gonna hit dat!
All: Because of my job, I am constantly in class,(even though someone here suggested I get my money back because it doesn't seem to help. By the way I don't pay for the classes, so does that make their comment a compliment?) Anyway, one thing that I have learned about grammar and punctuation is that it is constantly changing. It depends on the instructor/editor/proofreader and which text they go by. The same can be said for spelling. There is no sure way to get everyone on the same page about every rule of grammar or spelling unless we pick a universal text and dictionary and agree to go by it. I work for a government agency and I have two two hundred plus page texts on style that differ completely from other agencies within the government. If I were to take a document from this agency to another, they would find hundreds of 'mistakes'. If they were to make 'corrections' and send it to another agency, they would probably change it back. The writer's reference that I have on my desk is the fourth edition by Diana Hacker. I also have Webster's eleventh four spelling and definitions. However, I've found my computer to be faster, if not necessarily accurate. It often differs from Hacker and Webster and it certainly isn't in tune with my style manuals. |
Tee
Regular Poster
Username: Tee
Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:14 am: |
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I just had this discussion in one of my groups a few days ago. For me, I try to apply the rules, coupled with the way I talk (style that Cynique mentioned). I write the same way I talk, so I place a comma where I would pause... <wink> But, what do I know, I tend to talk quite a bit and also use ellipses out of place too...they're just so cool.
Justwrite...I'd actually put a comma after "said" because if I were reading it aloud, that's where I would pause.
Here are two sources that may help:
http://uwc.fac.utexas.edu/media/handouts/Commas.pdf
http://www.tdcritiques.com/comma.html
(wondering if I put commas in the right places above.)
-Tee |
Tee
Regular Poster
Username: Tee
Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:18 am: |
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Justwrite asked: How many novels have you guys read with grammatical errors and how do you feel when you spot the errors? Does it ruin your mood?
---
I've read quite a few with grammatical errors in them and it's a turn-off for me, especially when they're in every other sentence. It slows down my reading and takes away from the story. There are only a handful of books that were so good that the mistakes didn't bother me.
Plus, in reading ARCs quite often, I have to overlook them because it is indeed the uncorrected proof. I know in reading Ernest Hill's latest book, I was surprised by the number of errors in the ARC, but I read over them anyway.
So to close, minor errors I can look over, but major or repetitive errors annoy me.
-Tee |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 188
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:37 am: |
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Tee> Not to start a debate on the use of commas, but, I was doing the same thing. One of my instructors told me that placing commas where you pause is not a good practice because people tend to read differently than you speak. People also have a tendency to pause in their head, while they are writing, in a different place than they would pause when they are speaking aloud. The placement of a comma can give a sentence an entirely different meaning.
I like the ellipsis also. I'm not sure what the correct usage is.
ellipsis
n : omission or suppression of parts of words or sentences [syn: eclipsis]
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 421
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 01:32 pm: |
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Soulofaauthor,
Ouch! What happened, my genial friend, to cause to bare your claws? Sistah gurl stepped on your Prada shoes or something?
I understand why you wouldn't want to make waves. But I also concur with Cynique. You should (affably) correct obvious/glaring errors. Otherwise, you are being complicit in the spreading of such misinformation. And too many lies are already being told to Black foks for us to - intentionally or mistakenly - lie to each other.
Lambd,
DAYUM, dawg! You sure dun stepped out on JW ("Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!"). Playah, haven't I dun told you it is 'booty' to get mad at a sistah jus' cuz she dun rejected your lascivious advances?
Tee,
I agree with both you and Cynique. It is not so important that one holds steadfast to any particular rules. What counts is whether whatever methodology you use is discernable/useful to those with whom you converse. Heck, even the "Queen's English" is useless if no one knows what they heck ol' gurl is trynah say.
If you held fast to the strictest writing/style conventions, you would find at least one spelling, grammar, composition and/or style errors in any document of +1,000 words, no matter the quality of the writer/publisher. Most of what I read is so fraught with such I pretty much ignore them.
But most of these lapses are not as obvious as misspellings (as originally cited by Justwrite). The errors I regularly spy include the following: split infinitives, dangling participles, misplaced modifiers, faulty numerical verb/subject agreement, faulty parallelism, (Lamb's) ellipsis, etc. (BTW: If you DON'T know what any/all of these are, you likely are a frequent perpetrator of the offenses I decry.)
And, please, don't get me started on punctuation.
Ai Very!
You know, I have this recurring fantasy that one day, some lone, courageous teacher (I foresee her being a Black daughter of impoverished, illiterate Mississippi sharecroppers.) is going to begin teaching our kids how to use commas, exclamation points, quotation marks, semicolons, colons, hyphens, dashes, etc. et al. And - I swear to you by all I hold holy - the ENTIRE world will be the better for her doing that.
The references you site are excellent. But I will repeat: Get thee to the "Strunk & White: The Elements of Style". It is only about 130 page book. And it is small enuff to carry in your pocket and purse. But it remains, after nearly 90 years of a myriad reprintings/revisions, the flagship reference book for Modern American writing. I assert that that small, innocuous $10 paperback book is arguably the greatest gift that you could bestow upon someone who aspires to be a writer.
Oh BTW: Yawl take it easy on Rick James!
Yeah, at the BET Awards he sound awful...and looked even worse (And can somebody please tell Teena Marie she is LONG passed the bloom of that 'Cute White girl who sounds Black' stage?). But, heck, those of us who are old enuff to have witnessed his tumultuous life over the last 30 years are wholly SURPRISED that dude is even still alive...much less have enuff gas left in his tank to butcher some of his hit singles.
And, in spite of his reckless hedonism, James has been quite the businessman. He - along with James Brown, George Clinton - was among the first R&B/Soul artists to retain much of the control/ownership of his works. Just imagine what he might have achieved had he not become so occupied with snorting truckloads of cocaine and kidnapping underage females.
But, hey, nobody's perfect.
Justwrite,
Well, it's good to know that you are so willing to 'GO ALL OUT' to return a favor (JEEZ! At that rate of reneging, I'll soon end up owing YOU a favor! hehe!). That's cool though. 'Sides I was mostly trying to buddy up to you in a furtive attempt to cleverly grease up on your irascibly sexy (and excommunicated) cohort A_womon.
Think if I can smooth things over for her with 'Big Boss Man' Thumper she'll let a playah 'in'? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 423
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 02:35 pm: |
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Soulofaauthor,
Correction: I don't recommend that you play 'grammar goddess' here. This isn't SAT-central or something. All of us (even Yours Truly) is going to beget an occasional (okay, frequent) glitch. What I intended to say was if someone is spreading 'misinformation' about a particular subject matter, especially involving one of relative importance/gravity, where/when you can, you should attempt to bring accuracy/clarity to the issue.
Though, were I to go "Strunk & White" on you, I would argue your moniker should read "Soulofanauthor", not "Soulofaauthor". Nouns ("author") that begin with a vowel ("a") can be preceded by the adjective "an", but not an "a". <wink!> |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 193
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 04:32 pm: |
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I was merely repeating what she had said about herself.
JW@ 2:01 a.m.>>>Y'all know this guy better than I do...what is he talking about? Am I in trouble AGAIN and just too lame to realize it?
BigLambd@ right now P.M.>>>> Yeah you in trouble but f"""k it! Change your name and "mon back"! Like the trash man say. |
Justwrite
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Justwrite
Post Number: 92
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 02:33 am: |
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Oh, man, Tee, I checked out those links. Very, very helpful! Thank you, girl!
Hi Thumper! How are you? Um, are you enjoying your weekend so far? Is everything okay? May I please have your email address, sir?
Question folks. It's a dumb one, but if you don't ask, then you'll never know.
What does it mean to do a reading? Like, for authors...when someone says they had a reading...what does that mean? That they read parts of their novel?
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Whistlingwoman
Regular Poster
Username: Whistlingwoman
Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 03:03 am: |
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Yes, a reading is a book signing event where there is also a reading involved. Most authors read from their current books, but a few times I have gone to readings where they share other writings. Some authors are better at readings than others (Walter Mosley was lively and entertaining, Percival Everett was not but he didn't hide the fact that he hates that part of the business) and some authors (big names mostly) do signings only.
Also, this relates to your earlier post but Nichelle Tramble (The Last King, The Dying Ground) talks about (and provides the link) for the freelance editor she used on both her books on her website, the online journal. Might be worth checking out. I read her blog everyday and she talks about hiring an editor before she submitted her manuscript to agents. Maybe she has been reading this thread. . .
W.W. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 707
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:23 pm: |
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For somebody who doesn't miss an oppportunity to brag about being a savvy publishing entrepreneur, you really do ask some "dumb" questions. |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 68
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 01:17 pm: |
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ABM my dear dear friend when I first started coming to this site I explained the reason I choose to spell my nickname the way I do.Now you weren't sleeping now were you? Now you stay awake before I have to fly over their on my broom and get you.HaHa I had to use that witch thing one of my co-workers sent me a email at work yesterday and call me a b****,and a witch.I was like dang girl you really don't like me huh? |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 57
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 03:45 pm: |
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Cynique, I am reasonably sure she is pulling our leg........but then again......nahhhh, nobody....NOBODY, notta....NOT A SOUL would admit to not knowing what a reading was about......huh...what???.....then again . Yeah, I understand your holla, it's like pleeeeeezz, somebody call the law, it's a crime up in here the way some folks come at us, ain't it! But, then again, hey, somebody answered her *lol*.
Carey
Carey |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 60
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 08:35 pm: |
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Okay, I've been asked by somebody to take it easy on Paula and not be so hard on Ms. Edwards. See, I didn't even no Justwrite even was Ms. E. Soooooo, it was about her but nevertheless I bow my head in a subservient, apologetic fashion and humbly say I's sorry if I seemed a little rude and out of line.
How's that, my hand slapper?
Carey |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 61
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 08:38 pm: |
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OOPS......"WAS'NT" about her......now that's better. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 708
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:22 pm: |
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I try to be good, Carey, but I can't. LOL. But my devilishness is counter-acted by all of the nice people who post here. Folks should just take ol thick-skinned Cynique with a grain of salt. |
Soulofaauthor
Veteran Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 73
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
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Cynique, could you give me your email addy again I need to email you privately. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 711
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:27 pm: |
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LanPbls130@aol.com |
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