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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 266
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | 
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My crime noir short story "Waitin' For Sweet Saphronia Mae" is up on the Plots With Guns Site (you can read it for free by clicking on the URL below)
Caution: Language and Violence
Enjoy!
http://www.plotswithguns.com/SaphroniaMae.htm
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Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 08:52 pm: |
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Chris,
I really enjoyed your story! Can't wait to read your book. Thanks for sharing. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 158
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 07:48 am: |
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Chris,
Good story. I have some comments about it though that I would not like to post, but I will email them to you if you are interested in them. It's nothing hurtful, just my opinion on a couple of areas. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 267
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 02:52 pm: |
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A_womon:
Go ahead and post them here. It might start a vigorous and useful debate (or maybe everybody will pile on, but that's the game)
Chris |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 506
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 03:30 pm: |
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Because you're my "road dawg", I'd give the story 3 stars, Chris. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 167
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 03:48 pm: |
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Chris,
Ok here goes:
1. As the story opens Claude is contemplating the fact that he shoulda followed "his first mind" but in the story, it's never plain what "his first mind" had told him to do.
2. I found it a little hard to swallow that the 3 addicts in the shape that they were in would keep anything without opening it to see if at the least the package would contain something they could swap,sell,pawn, for another hit of thier favorite high.
3. It was a little hard for me to follow your timeline of events. For example if the bus wasn't leaving until midnight, and the dopers had told Claude to come back at 11 didn't he have time to pick up the package himself instead of relying on his "girlfriend" to get it for him? What made him decide to do this? That is not clear. Did he take a bus to get from point a to point b? did he take a cab? or was he walking? Mode of transportation could have clarified why he didn't have time to get the package himself, for example.
4. Why didn't claude smell a rat when a policman had Saphronia Mae's cell phone number?
Lastly, the paragraph about Dewey's demise didn't flow well. You know? It just seemed slightly off-kilter stream of conciousness-wise.
Again, just my take on it, but other than that I thought it was good.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 509
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 11:19 pm: |
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Pertinent observations, a_womon. I gave Chris good marks because the piece did resonate with the ironic undertones so essential to noir fiction. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 170
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 11:34 pm: |
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Cynique,
Thank you and I agree that the irony factor was one of the strong points in the telling of this story. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 268
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
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Awoman:
Some good points. You must be a mystery afficinado, the plot details are very important to them. You note this is not a mystery, we already know whodunnit (though it might not be clear at first what he done)--so this is more of a suspense tale. Your comments show you read my story--
1)But in the case of #1 not very closely. The first sentence paragraph states that if he hadda followed his first mind he would have been "long long gone."
Where to? That develops over the course of the story of course. Maybe Robert B. Parker would have said right then, "He would have been in Clarksdale Mississippi, shacking up with Ola Mae on the old Spencer Plantation"--but I wanted to hold out on that one for a minute.
2) And of course Claude sees now it was a "lunatic scheme"--but maybe they DID steal it. I never say that Saphronia Mae for sure split with the cash, and they told him to come back later. Maybe Dewey was going to cut Claude out of the money--that is left up in the air. Maybe Sir Arthur Conan Doyle would have knitted up the little detail, but I wanted the reader to think about it.
3) He didn't do it because he was stupid and cowardly. He had time to pick up the package, but he had gotten jumped outside Mother Heavenly's and was afraid to go back there himself. Criminals get screwed up because they do stupid cowardly stuff, because they trust people they shouldn't and have them do stuff they should have done themselves. Maybe Dr. Mabuse would have gone and got the money, but Claude ain't Dr. Mabuse. He was panicky, high on drugs, half beat up, with the cops on his tail, and was doing plenty of stupid stuff (like running and hiding in a bathroom with no way out when he saw the hitman, Dawg).
Don't think the Maltese Falcon or I the Jury when you read about my villains--they do not come up with these fancy schemes that Hercule Poirot has to use ratiocination to crack, they screw up and usually deliver themselves into the long arms of Sgt. Jerzy like real criminals do--same reason he didn't smell a rat in
#4)--but then again, though you, the reader could see the jig was obviously up, he was still thinking, beyond reason, that he still had a chance--and what else could he do? He had no money. Everybody and his mama was after him. The bus was leaving in a few minutes--why weren't John Allen Muhammad and the boy out of the country instead of bumming around in Maryland instead of on the Paris Riviera? They didn't have no place to go.
If you talk to cops about where they bust most criminals of Claude's ilk, they'll tell you they just lay outside their mama's house and they'll show up-- if you think that is far from the truth, some guys down the street from me killed their brother and law a few years ago.
They caught one immediately. For a year the other was supposed to be hunted by the FBI and the cops and all--several times I saw him walking down the street, visiting his mom and stuff like he had a license.
I'll go back and look at that paragraph on Dewey's demise. Our works are not perfect, and perhaps it can be made better.
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 177
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 11:05 am: |
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Chris,
I'm smiling! Thanks for the tour de force (sp) through your story! I liked it a lot,but I do tend to overanalyze situations sometime. And thanks to for taking my comments in the manner they were given. It ain't always easy to swallow other peoples thoughts about your baby!!
PS I hope you continue to share I look forward to your next adventure! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 269
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:01 pm: |
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A_woman:
No, thank YOU! As I stated the hard thing about writing crime noir is getting the details, hitting the llinks--I have discovered that things have to happen for a reason in this kind of lit--ie why wasn't Claude at 3502 Palm?--just late, getting his shoes shined--
Questions like yours help the writer see if he got caught napping--indeed, one thing that backed me up for a while is that I never say exactly how Saphronia Mae knew that Claude was involved in the killings and that the package might have contained money--then got to thinking that she would have had to have known that Dewey was his road dawg and that they were always in things together--he probably told her things he didn't know-
But the main thing was of course that she was not as stupid as she pretended to be-- I wanted to stress was that the stupidest thing he did was to underestimate and try to dog out Sweet Saphronia Mae (another reason why he would be so foolish as to think she would get a package from Mother Heavenly and her crew (an homage to Chester Himes, who knows what books I borrowed those names--with changes--from?) and not look at it, an unlikely femme fatale but, it turns out, as deadly as the Dragon Lady (oh how she was leading him on when she came on to him and whispered she would wait for him forever--I laugh every time I reread those parts.
Anyway thanks, and the next time I tackle this genre (if de Good Lawd blesses me to write more I am thinking of how to bring back Saphronia Mae) I might prevail on you to go over it first for me before I submit it, now that I know you are an Eagle Eye Fleegle! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 178
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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Chris,
It would be my pleasure! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 270
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
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Sisg:
Thanx for your kind words. You are the ace crimewriter on this site, I'm still a dabbler, so your comments are appreciated.
Cynique:
Three stars from you is as good as an Edgar! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 282
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 05:23 pm: |
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Chris,
I thoroughly enjoyed your short story! No frontin’: You can do it, to it, Playah!
You manage to do what only a skill writer can do: Craft a captivating tale out of a world fraught with characters that have no redeemable values. There’s no good guy/gal, bad guy/gal, damsel in distress, faithful best friend, or any other boring, boilerplate literary characterizations.
All of your characters STINK! And I DIG that about them!
Your narration and dialog are rough, unvarnished and efficient! Thus, you paint a compellingly dark and unforgiving world. And because you abruptly skip along incongruent parts of the story’s timeline, the story has an engaging, yet hard-edged jazz-like flow.
And you avoid a lot of innate details and descriptions (what I consider useless, trite literary ‘filler-material’) and get right down into doing your thang. And you don’t telegraph EVERYTHING that is occurring. Rather, you seem to allow the reader to infer certain things for his/herself, which is, again, a hallmark of fine writing.
I guess I would say you have sort of a combination Donald Goines and Walter Mosley thing going on.
But...
I do have a few questions/comments about your story. I don’t know if they qualify as criticism or simply points of clarification, but here they are (and some include suggestions):
1) The dialog at times appears to be inconsistent with the story’s era. It is obvious that your story refers to the present day (e.g., references to Sam L. Jackson, cell phones, etc.). Yet the dialog at times seems dated, especially between Claude and the cop. Words like "honky" and "soul brothers" are about as current as the Afro and "Good Times". Suggestion: Since the era is not a major factor in the story, why not simply chose an era that you feel most fluent in? Simply, if the vernacular of the 70’s is your strong suit, just roll with that.
2) The nemesis cop appeared a bit standard issue. The White, fat, cigar-smoking, racist cop "on the take" seems about as fresh as month-old white bread. Suggestion: Why not mix it up a bit by making the cop a female and maybe even suggest there a hit of attraction between the Claude and her?
3) If Claude knew the cop was looking for him and assassins had already knock off his homey Dewey and the fearsome ‘Dawg’ possibly was on his tail, why would he go back to Saphronia’s apartment after she stood him up at the bus depot? Why wouldn’t he simply vamoose...even without the money? Suggestion: (None. Just asking.)
4) Claude says he really needs the money, yet it is unclear WHY. Now, I suppose crooks ALWAYS need money, but why specifically did he need it so much so that he would risk doing something that he otherwise wouldn’t do, rob drug dealers? And is that reason that caused him to risk his life/liberty? Suggestion: I think knowing WHY he did what he did might help a read to better understand WHO Claude is and WHY he’s doing what he does. And that might further build more tension within the story.
5) The vernacular of the third person narrator was so similar to that of Claude’s, it was at times difficult to discern the two. Suggestion: Either allow Claude to narrate or distinguish the wording of the narrator from that of Claude’s.
6) This is a minor detail: Why would Saphronia and her deacon lover bother to remove EVERYTHING from her apartment? That seems too risky, and Claude could have easily decided to go back to her apartment when she didn’t show at the bus depot.
Let me understand:
Claude left her apartment after 10:00 PM and his train was scheduled to leave at midnight. So that means Saphronia had to do something to the effect of the following within less than 2 hours: get with her deacon, scam drugs off of drug addicts, go back to her apartment and clear it of EVERYTHING (including a myriad Christian curios/trinkets) before Claude might come after her. Why would she do all of that? Suggestion: Skip the part about the apartment being cleaned out.
Please don’t think my questions/comments suggest I didn’t like your short. I think it is a fine bit of writing. And had I not known you, I would be MORE inclined to read your work NOW than I would be prior to having read "Waitin' For Sweet Saphronia Mae".
Great going, Chris! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 271
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
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Abm:
Thank you for your kind words and here is an answer to your queries:
1) Sgt Jerzy is the one who says "honky" and "soul brothers", he is in his 50's and his style is stuck in the time when he was last hip--late 60's early 70's--as a lot of old men will wear old clothes and the like he is wearing the old jive--he, being da po-lice and having the upper hand does not care if he is out of style or not--he in fact wears it, like a lot of old guys (who wear the white belt and white shoes ensemble--and like old men of my era kept wearing the wide ties of the 40's in the 60's) proudly.
2) This is set in St. Louis. St. Louis is at least 20 years behind the time. It is very conservative racial and sex wise and there are few high ranking female cops and, from what I see from who gets face time on tv when they have Major cases, none who are stars of the department.
3) It was the last act of a man at the end of his rope--in his heart of hearts he thought his game was tight and maybe she had just screwed u--or he wanted to think so. He was out of money (had to borrow ten bucks from her to get to the station, remember) He was going nowhere.
4) Everybody always needs money. Would you turn down $20,000 cash, tax free? I'm sure even Bill Gates would not do that--nice little piece of walking around change, eh? What about some guy who has been pulling burglaries and street stickups and whose bottom woman is a church secretary? 20 grand was a lot of cheese. And he was very much a follower--Dewey had hit upon the scheme and he went along for the ride.
5) The method of narration is the method of the central intelligence, pioneered by Henry James and James Joyce among others, wherein a writer uses the third person but, instead of using the omiscient pov where he jumps from one head to another, he sees everything through the eyes of one character--very often the reader is made privy to his thoughts and his take on things--they use stream of consciousness in this--he is in fact, often the narrator his words and his thoughts telling the tale.
6) Cleaning out the apartment meant she was not coming back and that she made her moves with malice aforethought--that she planned to split as soon as he was safely out of sight--after all, he might be pretty upset when he found out she was dropping dimes--enough to kill her, maybe. Additionally I think she was trying to find out where the cheese was the whole time and this was her chance--Sweet Saphronia Mae wasn't so sweet after all. She was living in a kitchenette--that's what two rooms and a bathroom?, Claude didn't get back up there until 2 or 3--she actually had four or five hours. She knew he didn't have any more money and he was down at the bus station--if she was not particular about getting her stuff out she could possibly have got with the deacon, cleaned the place out (throwing it all in a van or a truck or a rented trailer and then gone by Mother Heavenly's place--or she could have gone by there at eleven or a little after.
She took some chances, but she had given him a pistol with one bullet and a cell phone whose number she gave to the cops--and he was down at the bus station with no money--he was in perfect position to get gunned down there or someplace else. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 287
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 12:37 pm: |
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Chris,
Thanks for clearing things up for me. I hope my comments were in someway helpful. And I DEFINITELY look forward to reading more of you works. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 530
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 05:30 pm: |
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Chris, I hope something occurs to you when it becomes necesssary for you to have to go into such great detail clarifying things to readers of your story. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 274
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 10:44 am: |
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Cynique:
What detail? A_woman had 4 questions, Abm had 6. They could have had a hundred and I'd have been 100 times more delighted.
What occurs to me is that people have read it and read it closely. What also occurs to me is that they are mystery and or crime fiction fans--they case the joint and try to hip the scribbler about what don't look kosher.
This is what an author hopes for, to have people so interested in the story that they ask questions. If you note, most of the questions were from things that were missed--I posted a story, not an instruction manual for operating a computer (and how many questions are raised by what is written in them).
I know what you are saying--well, you should write it more tightly. Were any of the questions to any of the major elements, plot, character, theme setting? Did anyone say they didn't like it?
I would have welcomed someone saying they hated it for the violence, profanity and sensasionalist nature of the work--it is violent and profane--as crooks are. It is sensationalist in a way they ain't. After all, when you post a story on a site that is titled Plots With Guns and where you work is framed by skulls and crossbones you expect some blood and thunder--kind of like the Dime novels and Penny Dreadfuls of our childhood,.
What would have distressed me is no one having any comments at all. Anyway, as Solozzo, the Turk told Tom Hagen, "You let me worry about Luca"
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 536
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |
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OK, Chris. I just happen to think that, ideally, a story should speak for itself. I guess a-womon and Abm were lucky you were there to clear up their confusion; otherwise they would've remained confused. Obviously you espouse a different school of thought when it comes to story-telling, and that's your prerogative. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 276
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 12:58 pm: |
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Cynique:
Here is your assignment.
This link is to Edgar Allan Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart" so you can re read it if you haven't in a while.
http://www.eapoe.org/works/tales/thearta.htm
Now riddle me this:
Is the narrator mad? Or is he, as he insists not?
And does he really hear the heart of the old man? Or does he just imagine it?
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 277
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 01:04 pm: |
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Cynique Assignment #2--
Click on this one. It is to Ernest Hemingway's "The Hills Like White Elephants"
http://www.fti.uab.es/sgolden/docencia/hills.htm
What are the man and the woman talking about? Where in the text do they explain it? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 542
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 02:50 pm: |
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I don't understand the relevance of your questions, Chris. Are you saying that some stories require that readers use their imagination? And if that is the case, then no explanantion from the author is necessary. He has done his job by adequately setting the scene for the reader to draw his own conclusions. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 301
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 03:18 pm: |
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Cynique,
Hold on there, my Chi-town galpal. I think Chris wrote a FINE story. There were no weaknesses/flaws that I could see. I just asked some questions which dealt mostly with the thought/behavior processes of the characters.
Believe me Cynique, what I did above was NOTHING. I have done FAR WORSE to the shorts/novel written by other, some of them even published authors whose books you know about, and may have even read.
Also...and may be my own flaw...I don’t necessarily have to understand or even believe EVERYTHING I read in a story. I asked Chris those questions not because I thought they were errors per se but rather because I was trying to sample why HE chose expressed things a certain things.
And I still don’t necessarily ‘buy’ the rationale of everything he wrote. But whatever differences I have are entirely due to differing viewpoints, not general errors/omissions. I, for example, still doubt that a White cop of today, even one in his 50’s, would refer to a Black men as "soul brothers". But that may be as much a region bias on my part. Because were I, as explained by Chris, a resident of St. Louis, I might think otherwise.
So don’t presume my comments to mean there was ANYTHING wrong with Chris book. You should, actually, regard MY responses to Chris story to be of admiration, not criticism. Because had I thought less than good things of the story, I likely would never have responded. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 278
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 03:25 pm: |
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Abm:
Thank you my brother. I'll dance at your next wedding and I could sit you down with the old white cop who uses "soul brothers" (He stated that he was not completely comfortable with saying "black" because he remembered when a soul brother tried to kick one's ass for it). You ought to come to the STL sometime. We got all of the inconveniences of city livin' and none of the advantages.
Cynique:
Tell all that to Leonardo DaVinci (Da Mona Lisa? Is she or isn't she?) Remind me to send you my treatise on "The Uses of Ambiguity in Art" Are you ready for the answers to the above questions, or would you like a little more time? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 543
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 04:10 pm: |
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Just answer the question I asked you, Chris, and spare me the red herrings. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 279
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 04:28 pm: |
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You have to answer my question first-- |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 304
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 04:32 pm: |
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Chris,
Thanks for the invite. And from the way you 2 go at it, I can't help wondering whether the 'bride' of that "next wedding" might be a certain 'cynical' friend of ours.
Can I cut in on you 2 during your first dance at the bridal reception?
HAHA! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 545
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 04:46 pm: |
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What is your question, Chris?? The paragraph directed to me in your last post doesn't make sense. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 280
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 05:11 pm: |
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Cynique:
Actually there were several questions. Here, somewhat revised--
Re: "The Tell Tale Heart":
Is the narrator mad? Even though he insists he is not? Is the old man's heart actually beating beneath the floorboards?
Re: "Hills Like White Elephants"
What are the man and the woman talking about ie why are they taking the train? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 549
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 11:37 pm: |
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So why did you inject Mona Lisa into the conversation? And since you ain't my teacher, I am not reading your assignments. You always want to set the ground rules for the exchanges we have, Chrishayden. If you want to elucidate on what you're trying to prove, then I'll read what you write - if it isn't too long. But why bother? We know how this discussion is going to end. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 281
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:03 am: |
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This discussion will end with me winning, having the last word, and you going off to sulk and curse the fates that you did not meet me earlier in your life so that I could get your mind right.
You can't answer the questions, which of course, proves my point.
I will answer them for you (I love this part of our epic battles):
Re: "Tell Tale heart": for more than a hundred years debate has raged on this. I hold of course that the narrator is insane and that he imagined he heard the old man's heart beating. The narrator had cut him up and stuffed him under the floor-he had to have been dead several hours before the visitors came.
Others, caught up in the notion of Poe as a supernatural writer (I don't know how he got tagged with it--most of his stories do not involve the supernatural at all) insist that, through some supernatural means, the old mans heart was beating--sort of a ghost of vengeance and judgment coming back.
Re" Hills like White Elephants--they are talking about the woman going and having an abortion. I only knew this after reading it somewhere. Then of course it is evident "It's just a simple operation, Jig. They let the air in."
Now, we have these two classics of literature the meaning of which has escaped readers or been debated for decades. It is obvious that every single point in a work of fiction is spelled out or need be spelled out or that it can.
I do not say that a writer cannot leave holes in his plot or make a mistake--I have done same and probably will--then again, is it realistic that Jack trade the family cow for some magic beans? Why is he naive? Why does it happen?
So that he can climb up the beanstalk, of course.
I injected the Mona Lisa into the conversation because I was confident that you were familiar with the painting. I ain't your teacher, but you should read my "assignments"--you will receive great recompense of reward. You'll thank me. You'll bless me. I have to set ground rules for our exchanges to bring your surging intellect within bounds.
I hope this hasn't been too long--no. I can hear you now, thanking me and blessing me.
You are lovely when you're angry.
Ta ta! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 309
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:09 am: |
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Chris,
I agree. Cynique is even 'cuter' when she's surly.
HAHA! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 550
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:29 am: |
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Yawwnnn. What an insufferable egomaniac. Be advised that your comments were too long so I just kinda skimmed over them. I'll also let you in on a little secret, Chris. I didn't really read your story. I just thought I'd make a vague general comment and compliment you on it because I know how you thrive on praise. I did read a_womon's critique but Abm's comments were, as usual, too long for me to get through. I emphatically reiterate that, of late, I have a short attention span. Something really has to grab me to hold my interest. You can attribute this to whatever you want but my taste in reading nowadays is very esoteric. Sorry. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 282
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:20 pm: |
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Cynique:
What's that? Did you post something? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 313
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:58 pm: |
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Cynique,
If you find my "comments" to be "too long", then...Lord!...you wouldn't have a chance to "get through" my @#$%. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 314
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 01:01 pm: |
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I hope that was "esoteric" enuff to "grab" your "interest". |
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