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Brian_egeston
Newbie Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 03:40 pm: | 
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P Diddy got hammered on Broadway for his role in the revived Lorraine Hansberry play. The NY Times critic ripped him for grape to raisin.
Despite his performance, his lack of acting, isn't this a good thing for Black culture? Imagine how many people from the Hip Hop world are going to experience dramatic theater as a result of his (perceived) bad acting.
Does this sound strangely familiar like the argument of (perceived) bad books being good for Black literature because someone, somewhere is reading them thus bringing more people to the reading table?
This really isn't a gauntlet for you, Thumper. I knew the title would get attention.
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Here's the NY Times Review.
By BEN BRANTLEY
Published: April 27, 2004
Sean Combs's shadow precedes him at the Royale Theater. That's literally as well as figuratively. In the moment before Mr. Combs makes his hotly awaited entrance in the seriously off-center revival of Lorraine Hansberry's "Raisin in the Sun," which opened last night, his wavering shadow is cast from offstage, heralding his arrival like a soft, urgent fanfare. Audra McDonald, the first-rate actress playing his wife, calls his character's name — "Walter Lee, it's time for you to get up!" — and you can feel the audience drawing a collective breath.
Mr. Combs, of course, is the entertainment mogul, hip-hop artist, fashion entrepreneur and professional famous person better known as P. Diddy (and formerly known as Puff Daddy). His participation makes this production of Hansberry's epochal drama, which is directed by Kenny Leon and also stars Phylicia Rashad, a highly suspenseful event in a season when theatrically green celebrities from Farrah Fawcett to Ashley Judd have turned to road kill on New York stages.
Mr. Combs's anticipatory shadow thus hovers like a question mark over Thomas Lynch's scrupulously shabby evocation of a lower-middle-class apartment in Southside Chicago in the 1950's. Will the very 21st-century figure who is Mr. Combs, whose career has been a sustained triumph of nerve over probability, be able to turn into a man of continually thwarted dreams of the mid-20th century? Will he prove that you don't need long years of experience and training to knock 'em dead on Broadway?
For as much as 10 minutes after Mr. Combs hits the stage, looking appealingly tousled and sleepy-eyed, these questions are left hanging. Portraying Walter Lee Younger, a role immortalized by Sidney Poitier on Broadway in 1959 and in the 1961 film, Mr. Combs seems at first to have made a daring actor's choice that he just might pull off.
"Raisin in the Sun" depicts Walter Lee's belated emergence into manhood. And in his opening scene — as he pouts and teases with his wife, Ruth (Ms. McDonald) — Mr. Combs's Walter evokes a man who in his 30's is still marooned in early adolescence. You might even mistake this Walter for the older brother of Travis (Alexander Mitchell), the little boy who is in fact his son. Clearly, Mr. Combs has left lots of space for Walter to grow. Unfortunately, that space is never filled.
This omission makes the revival a lopsided and ultimately dreary affair. Though the production features sterling work from Ms. McDonald and Ms. Rashad, who plays Walter Lee's formidable mother, it lacks the fully developed central performance from Mr. Combs that would hold the show together. This Walter Lee never appears to change, in big ways or small. Happy or sad, drunk or sober, angry or placating, his evenly measured words and debating team captain's gestures remain pretty much the same.
This is a significant problem, since Walter Lee is meant to represent a new generational spirit among African-Americans in a time of social transition. And neither Mr. Combs nor the exceptionally pretty Sanaa Lathan — as Walter Lee's ambitious sister, Beneatha, who is studying to be a doctor — makes an argument for this generation as one to pin your hopes on.
From beginning to end, they register as petulant, spoiled overgrown children with none of the complexity of the maternal figures played by Ms. McDonald and Ms. Rashad. This "Raisin" is all about the kids versus the grown-ups, and not in the sense that Hansberry meant it. Instead of contrasting the forces of conservative, God-fearing womanhood with a fresh revolutionary spirit, the show becomes an ungainly counterpoint of mature and callow acting styles.
It's an approach that deprives audiences of an empathetic handle on the trials of the Lee family, headed by the widowed Lena (Ms. Rashad). And it never lets this sturdy kitchen-sink drama involve you even as a soap opera. The plot — built on the Younger family's squabbles over what to do with the $10,000 life insurance policy on Walter Lee's father that has come due — may seem creaky in the best of productions.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 230
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 03:52 pm: |
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Brian E:
"Does this sound strangely familiar like the argument of (perceived) bad books being good for Black literature because someone, somewhere is reading them thus bringing more people to the reading table?"
Not exactly, while many folk don't read, a much larger per cent do not go to the theater...even among the socalled "black middle-class."
By the way, I don't have the figures or statistics. It is just a presumption
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Bookgirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:54 pm: |
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I saw the production in preview last week and although I am not a P. Diddy fan; I thought the brother did a pretty decent job. Of course I was not expecting a modern-day Sidney Poitier performance either. Imagine comparing Claudia McNeil with Phylicia Rashad in the role of the mother. Just my fiddy cents..... |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 116
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
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Hello All,
Brian: Actually, I heard more good reviews for P. Diddy's performance than negative reviews. And it appears to me that Brantley was already set to dislike him, "who is HE to think that he could replace POITIER?" From my understanding, Combs held his own. I don't know what this means to hip hop in general though. I guess I'm not getting your point. Please explain. |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 02:49 am: |
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From what I've read it seems since Diddy remember all his lines or didn't fall of the stage the bar wasn't set that high to start with. Haven't (yet anyway) read that he was "good", more like "okay." Maybe surrounding him with all those great actresses/actors was meant to help but it may have harmed.
Here's another review...
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20040427/6150251s.htm
Sean Combs not a plum choice for 'Raisin in the Sun' Veteran actors upstage newcomer
By Elysa Gardner
NEW YORK -- It's official. Rapper/producer/entrepreneur/marathon runner Sean Combs can now add another slash to his multitasking title: ''Broadway actor.''
In a revival of Lorraine Hansberry's A Raisin in the Sun ( * * out of four), which opened Monday at the Royale Theatre, Combs -- aka Puffy, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy and J. Lo's ex -- stars as Walter Lee Younger, a role introduced 45 years ago by a less ambitious fellow named Sidney Poitier.
Poitier went on to do some film work, but to this day has failed to establish a record company or clothing line or score his own series on MTV.
Combs clearly did not slack off in preparing for his latest challenge. The caffeine-achiever drive that has made him a most successful dilettante also fuels his performance here, which merits a solid C, for competence and chutzpah.
There is nothing patently awkward or embarrassing about his portrayal of Walter Lee, a 34-year-old man still living in his childhood home in 1950s Chicago, grappling with a strong-willed mother, a frustrated wife and his own dashed dreams. The theater novice, who has acted in films such as Monster's Ball and Made, appears physically comfortable on stage and projects his character's emotions in a disciplined and expressive fashion.
But projecting is not the same thing as acting, and the finely textured work of Combs' accomplished co-stars makes his own lack of experience and depth all too apparent. Audra McDonald and Phylicia Rashad are riveting and heartbreaking as Walter's long-suffering spouse and his widowed mom, a pious, haunted woman puzzled by the lack of reverence and gratitude she perceives in her children. Both actresses convey levels of warmth, wit and sensitivity that Combs can't summon.
Combs also is upstaged by Sanaa Lathan, who exudes endearing sass as Walter's younger sister, a fiercely independent medical student, and by Teagle F. Bougere, who plays her good-natured suitor with unaffected charm.
Director Kenny Leon does his best to smooth over the emotional gaps left by a subpar leading man, not to mention a script that, while still engaging and affecting, can seem dated. Racism still flourishes decades after the civil rights movement, often in more subtle, insidious ways. But with black men and women having contributed so much to mainstream culture, the angst of assimilation is less of an issue than it was in the late 1950s.
Still, the Younger family's struggles with pride and prejudice likely will strike a chord with audiences of all ages and ethnicities.
I only wish that the producers had used an equal-opportunity approach to casting the central role, rather than pandering to celebrity bias.
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Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 29
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 03:03 am: |
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I was searching around for more reviews and saw this article from CBS.
NEW YORK, April 27, 2004
P. Diddy Does B'way, Reviews Mixed
"Our audience is not an audience that needs to be validated by reviews. A lot of them don't read them." -- Eric Schnall, Marketing Director 'A Raisin in the Sun'
(AP) "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down," chants P. Diddy in one of his hit songs. Maybe not even a bag full of mixed reviews.
The hip-hop impresario, known on stage by his real name, Sean Combs, has received a divergent reception from New York critics for his portrayal of Walter Lee Younger, the angry, frustrated hero of "A Raisin in the Sun," Lorraine Hanberry's landmark drama now being revived on Broadway.
Combs is making his Broadway debut in the revival, which premiered Monday at the Royale Theatre. Also in the cast are Phylicia Rashad and Audra McDonald, who received better notices than their more-famous co-star. Set in the late 1950s in a rundown South Side Chicago apartment, "Raisin" deals with the hopes and disappointments of a black family trying to find a better life.
The show took in $133,000 Monday at the box office, according to spokesman Bob Fennell and expects to double that figure Tuesday, despite several unenthusiastic notices.
"People are really responding," producer David Binder said Tuesday. Binder has been working since July 1999 to bring "A Raisin in the Sun" to Broadway. "It's a testament to the play and it's a testament to Sean Combs.
"This is all happening because of him," he said, adding that Combs auditioned twice before he was hired. "Sean brings them in and that crosses a lot of different lines. So many different kinds of people can connect to him."
"Our audience is not an audience that needs to be validated by reviews," said Eric Schnall, marketing director for the show. "A lot of them don't read them."
Writing in The New York Times, the most influential paper in terms of theater reviews, Ben Brantley said the revival "lacks the fully developed central performance from Mr. Combs that would hold the show together. This Walter Lee never appears to change, in big ways or small. ... (Combs) comes across as smaller than you might expect, as Madonna did when she made her Broadway debut in `Speed the Plow."'
While praising his "compelling physical presence," The Associated Press said, "Combs is not a nuanced performer who can bring to life the enormity of Walter Lee's resentment, much less his eventual redemption in the play's final scene."
In "Variety" Charles Isherwood said Combs "is simply not up to the role's considerable demands. ... (His) conservative performance may limit damage to the star's reputation - it is by no means an embarrassment, and certainly his many fans aren't likely to be disappointed - but it fails to do full justice to Hansberry's play."
Combs, who was not immediately available for comment, faired better with the New York tabloids. While saying that Combs does not measure up to Sidney Poitier (who played the role in the original 1959 production and reprised it in the 1961 movie version), Clive Barnes, in the "New York Post," said Combs was, "believe it or not - pretty damn good."
Writing in the "Daily News," Howard Kissel said Combs "showed plenty of stage presence," even if "he does not project the turmoil inside the character." And in "Newsday," Linda Winer wrote, "Combs is better than OK. He has presence playing someone besides his formidable self."
"A Raisin in the Sun," with a top ticket price of $91.25, has been doing respectable, if not sellout business. Last week, it grossed a solid $393,389, playing to 75 percent capacity, according to figures released Monday by the League of American Theatres and Producers.
"Raisin" is seeking to reach beyond the largely white middle- and upper-class audience that traditionally goes to Broadway shows, although it has not neglected such regular advertising outlets as daily newspapers and direct-mail campaigns.
The production has been advertising on hip-hop and rhythm 'n' blues radio stations, in hip-hop and black women's magazines and on New York subway platforms, according to Schnall. The production even has big posters at Amtrak stations in Washington, D.C., Philadelphia and New Haven, Conn., to greet travelers as they board trains to New York City.
"For `Raisin,' we are targeting every age group," Schnall said. "There really hasn't been an attempt to just get the traditional theatergoer, just get the 20-year-old hip-hop fan or just get that 35-year-old African-American woman."
As of Monday's opening night, the production had a $2.5 million advance for its limited engagement, which is expected to end July 11.
"The miracle of our audience is that it encompasses every race and every age group," Schnall said.
By Michael Kuchwara
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/entertainment/main614064.shtml
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 188
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 10:24 am: |
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On the one hand I'd like to see his performance first. I may differ with the reviews.
On the other I think there are a lot of real actors around who can do the part justice and who are wanting.
Then on another hand I figure this may do the play (and black theater) some good by getting people to see the play who would not ordinarily see it.
And then on another hand, the play is dated, worn out, melodramatic and the Mother of all them Mama on the Couch Plays--I would rather see effort made toward promoting work by fresh new 21st century playwrights. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 135
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
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Chris, I (confusingly) agree with EVERYTHING you said.
I don’t know if I would pay to see P.Diddy perform in ‘Raisin’ (Though I would LOVE to hear/see the ‘luscious’ voices/presences of his lovely co-stars Audra McDonald and [my future baby-mamma] Sanaa Lathan.). But if PD draws others - some of whom might be considerably more talented thespians than him - to the theatres throughout the country that otherwise might not have come, I’d say that, on balance, what he’s doing is a good thing and should be supported. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 233
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 02:40 pm: |
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Actually, If we can get our baby mothers and fathers to the theatres as well as our uncultured middle class people, then maybe having diddy in the theatre is a good thing...of course, i agree with all of CH's points. |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 07:29 pm: |
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Yukio wrote:
Actually, If we can get our baby mothers and fathers to the theatres as well as our uncultured middle class people, then maybe having diddy in the theatre is a good thing...
But aren't Tyler's "plays" and the other traveling shows, with all the old and newer R&B singers, consistently selling out wherever they are staged? Who are these VHS/DVDs and ticket buyers of these shows? The "baby mothers and fathers to the theatres as well as our uncultured middle class people"? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 235
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 08:14 pm: |
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yes, yes...excuse my elitism, I meant our black classics, august wilson, or jimmy baldwin's play, our canon, if there is such a thing...imaged if we could get dmx in wole soyinka's plays.... |
Brian_egeston
Newbie Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 19
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 02:50 pm: |
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I presume that casting PD as Walter Lee was not an artistic decision rather it was a business decision and one that has paid off tremendously. I think I saw a figure of $2.5 million dollars in advance.
I’m certain that there are 123.4 other Black actors who could have done a better job than PD, but I applaud PD for having the gumption to even take on the task of acting on Broadway and in a classic piece like Raisin. PD’s no dummy, he knew that the critics would be after his head, but he did it anyway.
Perhaps the most compelling turn I’ve heard about this is that the theater took out ads for the play at Hot 97 in New York. I can just imagine some young child turning to an adult and asking, “What’s a play?” or “There are theaters were people act on a stage?” And sometimes that’s all that needs to happen for a door to open and an individual to step into another world.
But of course, the ticket prices for a Broadway show are so crazy, I’m not sure how we can afford them.
In terms of the Bad Book argument in comparison to PD’s performance The NYT critic ,obviously a learned man of the stage, ripped him pretty good. And it almost seems as though the man is in the minority. The theater was packed, people who don’t normally go to shows are being exposed, but PD is no Thespian. Can you imagine what Don Cheatle could have done with that role?
In Comparison: Jessie Shequan Jenkins writes a book entitled ‘Nigga Who Is YouTalkin’ Too? I’m a Pimp’ and Omanika Malte Licker writes a book called, “Okaayy, Yeaaah!” No publication will review them, but they become favorites of high school students everywhere despite the fact that each book is written with characters who die and reappear in the next chapter. There are no page numbers and the entire book is written in lowercase letters. People love the book.
Is this good for Black books? I would have to argue to some extent that it is. Very much the way that PD as Walter Lee is good for Black Broadway.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 195
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 03:59 pm: |
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Brian:
You had me going there with the Jenkins and Licker books. I actually tried to do a search for them--
But you may have hit upon something. A lot, if not most, if not all your early comic books were written and drawn by artists and writers who were teenagers or barely out of their teens themselves. The new comics were a hit with youngsters--what you had was youngsters writing essentially for themselves.
Perhaps novels of this type could be a hit with the same results as with the comics ie after awhile audiences grew out of them and started reading books. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 10:53 pm: |
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Brian you are crazy; like Chris, I was like "hey, I never heard of Jessie Shequan Jenkins!" I got wise at the part about no page numbers and the entire book written in lower case.
Dude if it gets to that point I would without hesitation say that it would be a tragedy. Now, your little scenario has actually helped pick a side.
You see, when the problems with the books are not as egregious as your example, then it easier to accept and rationalize that if it gets more people reading then, hey, it must be good.
In reality, nothing gets better by getting progressively worse. Look, a book does not have to be riddled with errors to be accessible.
Obviously Puff daddy was not the best actor to perform that role. We all know there were many unknown and available actors could have done a superior job. Clearly, Puffy was hired because of his celebrity. The attention the play has received thus far in the majority press shows how smart that decision was from a purely commercial perspective. Casting Mike Tyson in the role; we would have pay-per-view simulcast at every performance.
Now would the play have been a better with a more skilled actor, of course -- would it have gotten the same amount of attention? Of course not. The producers were more concerned with making money than the quality of the performance. Some authors are no different.
I don't give Puffy extra credit for having the balls to play the role. His ego was enough to do that. I do however, give him mad props for creating the opportunities and experiences he has for himself. Puffy is the Man. He may have made mistakes in the past, but he is doing some many positive things nowadays I have to give him a lot of respect.
I plan to see the play. However I'm far more interested in seeing Sanaa "hold on 'Lizabeth I'm coming to join you" Lathan, than anything else.
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 244
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 03:12 am: |
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hmmmm...i'll give puffy some love...i've heard he worked hard...effort is what i tell my students. |
Lambd
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 100
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 09:39 pm: |
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Who cares if a book is written entirely in lower case? Not me. Not only do I not care, I probably wouldn't read it or give a shit who did. We critique everything and turn up our educated noses at everything innovative or slightly different and imaginative. Who knows, this maybe the style for tomorrow. The same with Puff. He was doomed before anyone ever gave him a chance because he is who he is. Isn't that just a bit prejudicial? Shouldn't we go see the play first and then judge Diddy? Or not see the play and shut the hell up. I have never seen him perform on stage so I prefer to keep quiet about his performance. We all know it was a money decision. What good would a fantastic performance of the play be if noone went to see it? Would that reviewer have been so interested in seeing it if not for PD? Would Hot 97 have advertised the play if not for Diddy? Probably not. Would we even be talking about the play? Probably not. To tell you the truth I aint that interested in seeing Puffy on stage doing theatre. I am interested in what someone from the AALBC, who actually saw the play with their own eyes , has to say. Is everyone on this site so hellbent on bringing down our brothers and sisters who don't fit into their high fallutin' little box? Some of you remind me of the college students that sit in a lecture hall and listen to a white professor drone on and on while making up words and blowing smoke. You will argue his point to the death because he is white, and someone decided to tell you that he is an expert. However, if you heard the same argument from one of our own you would question every word. I challenge any of you to stop thumbing your noses at your own people long enough to defy the mighty New York Times, stick that thumb in your pocket, pull out some cash and go see 'Raisin in the Sun' and give us a real review. That would be really black of you. THAT would show that you had some soul, you would be down, YOU WOULD BE HIP=HOP!...While you're at it get me an autographed picture of Sanaa Lathan. It's not for me...its for my kid...her name just happens to be LAMBD....thanx. I hope that spelling didn't offend some of you. Because I'm black I guess I should strive to spell everything correctly. "T-h-a-n-k-s" Hey, what makes whitey's messed up spelling of 'thank you' better than my hip-hop spelling? What makes 'thanks' better than 'thanx'? That should be a new thread! |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 09:00 am: |
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Lambd wrote:
The same with Puff. He was doomed before anyone ever gave him a chance because he is who he is. Isn't that just a bit prejudicial? Shouldn't we go see the play first and then judge Diddy?
Of course, it's prejudicial to prejudge before seeing the play, but then we all do it in every aspect of your lives. Why should this be any different? We based opinions on our past experiences and those of others. And believe it not a college degree isn't needed. lol Reading many of the comments on this board is proof of this fact. However, many have seen the play and have given their opinion. Should they be discredited because some are not so flattering? And, then some have seen his other acting roles in movies and based on what they saw came to an opinion about his ability to play Walter Lee and then after reading reviews, that opinion was reinforced.
Lambd also wrote:
I challenge any of you to stop thumbing your noses at your own people long enough to defy the mighty New York Times, stick that thumb in your pocket, pull out some cash and go see 'Raisin in the Sun' and give us a real review. That would be really black of you.
Now one is not "really black" because they don't want to spend their own hard earned money to see a play.
And, I have heard from some "really black" folks who saw the play and have to agree with the some of critics. But then I guess they are seen as just parroting da white man, huh?
I wonder how many people on this board spend their money based solely an author's effort, and finished product be damned, just to prove they are "really black"? I guess many are book rich but cash poor.
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Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 117
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
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Hello All,
Brian: I got cha, I got the point you're trying to make. And once again, I disagree. Your example doesn't quite fit just right, please allow me to make a few adjustments. Now if Puffy was up there playing Walter Lee (a character I always thought was a bit slimy and whined entirely too much for me *looking over my shoulder for Lambd to take and revoke my "black man" membership card*) with someone in the orcehstra pit holding up cue cards with his lines printed on them, or if one of the other actors were constantly whispering his lines to him, then and only then could his performance be on the same par as "Jessie Shequan Jenkins writes a book entitled ‘Nigga Who Is YouTalkin’ Too? I’m a Pimp’ and Omanika Malte Licker writes a book called, “Okaayy, Yeaaah!”"
From my understanding, Puffy has been working on the craft of acting. It there a reason his contemporaries in the literary field should not be doing the same? *eyebrow raised* Something being popular does not equate it being the best. And as I told Njanene, I still aint seen the numbers. I don't know how popular anything is nowadays. I do know that "Everything that looks good to ya, ain't necessarily good for ya" |
Brian_egeston
Newbie Poster
Username: Brian_egeston
Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
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Thumper,
That was actually a pretty good rebuttal. But I think the central argument is that the NY Times critic doesn't care how hard PD worked on the craft of acting or how much time he put into preparation. The critic believes his end product is bad and should not have been produced. Yet there are so many people who are interested in the play because of PD.
Likewise, if a highbrow critic says 'Okaaaay, Yeaaah' is bad book, yet kids in high school are loving it, despite the fact that Ms. Licker has worked tirelessly on the craft of writing but she still produces a bad book(per the critic). What' s bad and who's qualified to make that judgment for the greater good? Mind you, I'm not asking who's qualified to give an opinion(for we all are), I'm asking who's qualified to say what's bad and good on behalf of a large audience.
I think this is a feather in the cap for people liking what they want and no one person being able to place a personal opinion on behalf of a larger body of people e.g. an NYT critic saying what's bad.
On this issue, I'm a devil's advocate for I see valid points on both sides. However, it's a good discussion to have. A too often regurgitated one, but still a good one none the less.
Lambd,
You had some stuff to get off your chest, didn't you. Very well-stated. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 249
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 02:12 pm: |
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Brian:
Excuse my intrusion. I have a few questions. Aren't all critics subjective and preferential to particular groups? If this is generally so, How could they really place a judgement on the "behalf of a larger body of people"? Also, why use the word "personal opinion," which is itself inherently subjective? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 101
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 07:56 pm: |
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JMHO, I'm afraid you think that I said you can't be black if you hate Puff... or something to that effect. Look, I don't know what JMHO stands for, but it isn't a synonym for "I comprehend what I read". All I'm saying is that one of us should go see the play FIRST and then critique it. Good or bad. I value the opinions expressed here. It just seemed to me that people who had not seen the play were ready to bash the brotha because of what this NYT critic had to say. I usually take what they say with a cup full of salt. They usually have an agenda. So, JMHO, brother or no, I sure as hell don't know, go with the NY Times or judge for yourself. It has nothing to do with being black, really. It has more to do with how you stand as a person. Do you want to bash Puff's theatrical skills before you see the play? Is that what you really want to do...Brotha? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 102
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 07:59 pm: |
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Thumper, sir, I would never dream of taking your 'Black Man' membership card. You got to give that up of your own free will. Kind of like when you refuse to pay the annual fee on your Visa. They don't come and get it. They just cut you off. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 103
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 08:02 pm: |
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B.E.>>>>The props are appreciated, and yes, my chest feels a whole lot lighter. Thank you. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 350
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 11:24 pm: |
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All I gotta say is that I hope P Diddy acts better than he raps. |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 03:19 am: |
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Brian wrote:
I think this is a feather in the cap for people liking what they want and no one person being able to place a personal opinion on behalf of a larger body of people
I don't think that critics, of any medium, place their personal opinion on behalf of a large body of people. Why do you think that critics give a critique or a review on "what's bad and good on behalf of a large audience"? Do you think book reviewers are guilty of this too?
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Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 03:27 am: |
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Lambd wrote:
Look, I don't know what JMHO stands for, but it isn't a synonym for "I comprehend what I read".
It never fails, when people can't address what's written, they start to making comments about a person's user name.
Lambd wrote:
All I'm saying is that one of us should go see the play FIRST and then critique it. Good or bad. I value the opinions expressed here. It just seemed to me that people who had not seen the play were ready to bash the brotha because of what this NYT critic had to say. I usually take what they say with a cup full of salt.
Do you only take to heart the opinions expressed solely on this board? And, the play was reviewed by more than the New York Times. But then you got defending this man's acting that haven't seen the play either. Don't you think they should reserve judgment, as well?
Lambd wrote:
They usually have an agenda.
Did the reviewers/critics who gave more favorable reviews of his acting in this play have an agenda, too?
Lambd wrote
go with the NY Times or judge for yourself. It has nothing to do with being black, really.
Lambd wrote:
Perhaps you should reread what you wrote since it you how even brought up being black and having an opinion of Puff's acting abilities in the play.
Lambd wrote:
It has more to do with how you stand as a person.
Yet, nothing do with Puff's acting skills, or lack thereof, eh? 
Lambd wrote:
Do you want to bash Puff's theatrical skills before you see the play? Is that what you really want to do...Brotha?
Reading is fundamental, as is comprehension. I didn't bash his theatrical skills, however some people who did see the play have done so and I am certain that all those people were not white. So should those people's opinion be tossed aside because they aren't regular posters on this message board?
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A_womon
Newbie Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 06:43 am: |
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how can you critique something that you haven't seen? I hope no one is on this board is critiquing books based on what others who have read it have said. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 353
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 12:19 pm: |
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Making a comment about a book or a performance is not necessarily critiquing it. Nor is it a travesty to cite the opinion of someone you respect when commentinig on a subject. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 253
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 01:42 pm: |
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indeed...when u have read much and have seriously thought about what u have read...you begine to can get the gist of books from a few reviews or even the jacket of the book...as cynique has said, this is more of a comment than a "critique." |
A_womon
Newbie Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
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who said anything was a travesty? sheesh! I just asked a question. I can agree that you can comment on whatever you like when you like without seeing or reading based solely on other peoples opinion if that's what you like. Me, I'm not interested in letting other people give me my opinion, I'd rather form my own on any given subject from personal experience. AHhh C'est la vie! that is the beauty of living in this world.
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Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 106
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
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JMHO>>>Why are you even here? You seem to be defending the right to critique something that you haven't seen. That's just wrong. Black, white or purple. If Puff was white, I'd say the same thing. Except Puff isn't white, and neither am I. This is supposed to be an African American based site. We are going to uplift our people's talents and their right to showcase it until we find out for ourselves that they suck! I think you want the KKKBC down the road. I am convinced that you need to turn in YOUR membership card. BTW. Just kidding about the whole username thing. I didn't think you would take a crack at your username so personally. Maybe you should try a username that isn't so close to your heart like, "Icritiqueblacksbasedonwhatpeoplesayabouthemratherthanformingmyownopinions" No, on second thought, that doesn't seem to fit you either. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 360
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
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Well,A-womon, since you didn't see "A Raisin in the Sun either," why are you defending it, seemingly siding with those who liked it? I am not unfamiliar with P-Diddy, and my comments about him would be partially based on the fact that I am totally unimpressed with the mediocrity he displays in all of his other "artistic' pursuits. C'est La Vie is right. |
A_womon
Newbie Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:19 am: |
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I know it's right cynique, but what isn't right is your understanding of what i am defending. It has nothing to do with puff specifically, although i will say that your opinion that he is mediocre is just that---your opinion.
If you were to go back and read you would find that what I am defending is the idea that someone or something should be judged by anyone sight unseen, based on the opinion of others. As i said before, i will form my opinion on anything if and when i experience it and if i don't experience it, i will reserve my opinion. because i am not afraid to say, well i haven't seen that or i haven't read that so i don't really have an educated opinion about the subject. i hope i will never just go with the flow, the tide may carry me to a place i don't really want to be. |
Soulofaauthor
Regular Poster
Username: Soulofaauthor
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 02:18 pm: |
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Lmao I got to agree with cynique I hope his acting is better than his rapping cause on the real his rapping seriously sucks. |
Bookgirl
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 81
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 02:23 pm: |
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Having seen his performance in a Raisin In The Sun; I would say that he did a better job of acting than rapping. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 268
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 06:03 pm: |
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Bookgirl: finally, some one whose seen puffy's proformance...tell us...what did u think? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 146
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 01:54 pm: |
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Bookgirl,
That's not too difficult for PD to achieve, because his rappin' - and for him I use that term loosely - is putrid! I respect PD's business/community successess. But if PD is a rapper, I am Tupac Shakur reincarnate.
Lambd,
Are you that guy who obsequiously holds an umbrella over the imperious PD’s head while he prances around NYC? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 113
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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Yes, I am that guy! Actually, I'm with you Abm, not real into PD as a rapper. Not real into PD period. I think it's cool that a black man like him took nothing and made a mint. I think he deserves a fair shake as much as any of us. If I were a mailman and I had a chance to do broadway, I'd like for people to judge my performance on what they saw on stage...period. Not what they read in the NY Times. Not because I was their mailman...and certainly not because I am black. However, I would hope that most blacks would give me that fair shake especially when we don't expect whites to judge us fairly. I'm not trying to sing Puff's praises, or to make him the year's role model. It's my opinion that the people on this site should judge our own people fairly. I think, in the heat of debate, that point got missed entirely. Partly due to my own inexhaustible attempt at making that point clear...By the way, if inexhaustible is not a word, how can I go about making it one? I kind of like it. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:07 pm: |
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I saw Puffy's performance on Bway. In my opinion Puffy's performance was fair. This was a missed opportunity; a good actor could have turned this role into a moving performance.
Puffy did not convey the emotion, the anguish suffered by the character. He simply did not pull it off. In that regard he hurt the play.
In stark contrast Phillica Rasha performance was wonderful. I had no idea Calire Huxtable could act! Believe me when I say she moved people to tears -- I was choked up. She really worked that material. Even the supporting actors were good Lathan suitors were well cast an performed admirably. Overall I enjoyed the show and would recommend A Raisin in the Sun.
Now Puffy did help the show in another way. I'm sure he helped fill some seats -- the theater was packed. The best seats were already taken by the time I got around to popping by the box office (I could not bring myself to pay the huge vig ticketmaster wanted to purchase tickets on line). I sat in the first row of the balcony and those tickets were $92 bucks a pop! I know that is par for course on Bway but I still have trouble getting accoustomed to the prices. $165 dollar tickets were aslo on sale. There were some $25 tickets but I believe you had to stand in the back with those.
That is not to say the producers would not have been able to draw a comparable crowd with a seasoned actor in P-diddy's role. But with the free publicity Puffy provided it was a whole lot cheaper and easier with him in the role.
Honestly, Rashad did not draw me to the theater -- Puffy did. Will I go out my way to see another play with P-Diddy in it again? No. However if Rashad does her thing on Bway again I'm very likely to go out my way to see her perform.
My wife and I were speculating on another negative aspect of Puffy's impact on the play. There were many instances were people laughed out loud in very inapporiate moments -- I found it very distracting. Even my 11 year old even commented "why are people laughing?" I had no freaking clue. During another period of inappropriate reaction my wife said implied this is the hip-hop crowd Puffy has attracted.
Bookgirl did you experience this when you went?
Finally I saw a performance the day Ray Charles passed (may he rest in peace). At the end of the show the Reverend Jesse Jackson spoke. He informed everyone about Charles's his passing which at that time of the evening as already old news (despite the media blitz on Ronnie Reagan). Jackson, seemed to want to say something of depth, but he went on a little long and started to ramble (maybe like this post).
The whole experience is fodder for much more commentary. I'll end by giving props Lorraine Hansberry (http://authors.aalbc.com/lorraine.htm) for penning such a wonderful play.
Peace
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Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 166
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:19 am: |
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I'm sorry you and your wife had to pay so much money and then suffer through Puffy's fair performance and the hip-hop crowd he attracted. However, it seems like you enjoyed the play as a whole so it may have been worth the trip (if not the 92 bucks). I'm glad someone from the AALBC got a chance to see it and give us a noteworthy review (despite your wife's obvious bias against 'hip-hoppers'). Thanks for the critique. Since Puff was only one of three 'big' name stars in the play, I wish you could at least get a third of your money back. Congrats to Ms. Huxtable on the Tonie! |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 90
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 01:45 pm: |
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Hey Lambd:
I doubt my wife is any more biased against hip-hoppers than anyone else. I think the "inappropriate reactions" may have been a result of youth or stupidity rather that hip-hopperdom. Having seen a few August Wilson Plays and other Black performances on Bway The Raisin audience simply seemed less sophisticated.
Here are some more examples: A least two people had cell phones ringing off the hook. A woman, a few seats down from me after fishing for her ringing cell phone actually have the nerve to engage in a conversation! A woman next to her was busy nosily opening a wrapper containing a sandwich. During the intermission an annoucement was made asking people stop doing both of these things, so these acitivies were not isolated to my location.
There was a woman with a small child behind me who could not or would not control the kid's incessant asking of questions.
So, net-net I while I enjoyed the experience. To put thing in perspective my biggest complaints, would be;
(1) The ticket prices.
(2) The audience (would be #1 if the tickets were cheaper)
(3) Audra Mcdonald's understudy performed
(4) Jesse's end of play ramblings - a distant 4th
(5) Puffy's performance - a distant 5th
Yes, a definite big up to Phylicia Rashad for Best Performance by a Leading Actress in a Play for A Raisin in the Sun.
Also Audra McDonald won for Best Performance by a Featured Actress in a Play |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 173
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:26 pm: |
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Sorry, I had forgotten to mention Ms.McDonald. No offense.
On another note, (and this doesn't really have anything to do with you or your wife's complaints, just something I remembered) I was at the movies the other day, (a predominantly white theater, because its nicer and I like to take my daughter's to the nicer theaters), an elder white woman's cell phone rang about five hundred times during the movie while she fished around in her purse for it. Finally, when she answered it, (so stopping the incessant musical ringer) she carried on a semi-loud, distracting, five-minute conversation. The movie was a comedy, and I tend to laugh kind of loud...Hey! If its funny, its funny dammit...anyway, do you know that pastie-faced old broad had the nerve to twist her wrinkled-like-chittlins turkey neck around to shush me? Of course, being the gentleman, I always am, I kindly told her to turn her old ass around and watch the freakin' movie, and gave her
150 yr. old husband the "What? What?!!" Anyway, I guess you can take the nigga out the ghetto to watch the movie, but he always takes the ghetto with him. However, that old broad was just as ghetto with the phone!~ I guess the moral of the story is- "No matter where you go to watch a movie with your daughters, sombody's gonna be rude" At least I know I'm a good role model, what with trying at least to take them to a white joint, right? (I say, while simultaneously scratching my ass and spitting on the floor) |
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