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Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 110
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:53 am: | 
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Hello All,
Let me say upfront, I have never seen an episode of The Apprentice. But even I know about Omarosa and her antics. Let me ask you all something: doesn't Omarosa fit the lead female character profile of the heroine in the U go girl books? Really? Think about it. You all know the heriones in those books are always some Vice President of this or that by the age of 32 or something, with the runway model figure and designer clothes in their wardrobe, and finally, the f_cked up first name? Tell me that ain't your girl Omarosa all day long! *eyebrow raised* But what I don't see in the U go girl books that Omarosa brought out was that naked ambition and deceptifulness that is needed in order for a woman to get ahead in that white male dominanted field, especially at the high level the U go girl herione is always at in the beginning of the books. I'm going to be honest, if I saw more Omarosa as the star of these books, I would read more of them. She's evil and silly, but she's highly watchable. |
Dmello
First Time Poster
Username: Dmello
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:58 am: |
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Hi Thumper,
I agree that Omarosa is a lot of things but she is one sister who clearly lacks "star" quality. Having spent 20 years in a corporate environment, in very influential positions, I discovered that ambition, naked or otherwise, is one thing, but deceptiveness such as Omarosa displayed was the last thing any woman of color or otherwise needed to do to get ahead. In fact, as with Omarosa such behavior only served to get your behind fired, and your crediblity questioned. Omarosa's backhanded ugliness made for good television but clearly put the plight of black women struggling to advance in corporate America back a good fifty years. Perceptions are contagious and just as intelligent black women were just breaking the barriers of one perception about our worth, Omarosa has succeeded in burying us under another.
A "U go girl heroine" Omarosa isn't, but she should definately go and stay gone! But that's just my personal opinion. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:01 am: |
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Dmello:
But she is on television. She is on David Letterman. She is parlaying it into a career as a one name celebrity.
Look for CD's, movie roles, tv guest shots, maybe they can put together a Spring style talk show for her.
She is a straight RuPaul. She ain't trying to get ahead in the corporate world with this, she is trying to get ahead in Show biz--Omorosa, the woman you love to hate. |
Dmello
Newbie Poster
Username: Dmello
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:22 am: |
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Hi Chrishayden:
She is definitely enjoying her moment. Clearly, she is parlaying it into something, but I don't know if it's a career as a one name celebrity or the newest absurdity in a circus sideshow. But she has clearly earned her requisite 15 minutes of fame. I just truly regret the way she accomplished it and its impact on black women truly wanting to get ahead in corporate America. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 173
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:49 am: |
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Dmello:
I said this with regard to the Jayson Blair scandal (note that a similar scandal has broken out over at U.S.A. today and nobody is wondering whether white journalists are qualified or if it will impact on their abilities to get jobs)
Any jobs that black women don't get because of her they were not going to get anyway. If you, or anybody else is waiting on Black people to be perfect it will never happen. Anybody who would not hire a qualified black woman because of what they saw on tv is stupid a racist a fool incompetent and should be fired because they cannot excercise good judgment--based on what you are saying is a circus sideshow?
Any black woman who is not hired for that reason is lucky she didn't go to work for them.
I wonder when we are ever going to grow up. Do you think white folks trip because of Slobodan Milosevich, Jeffery Dahmer, the Green River murderer? They say "That ain't got nothin' to do with me" and keep steppin'.
I'm going to say this, and I am quick to lay on white folks anything I can: I am willing to bet that most white interviewers would not let Omorosa come between them and selecting a good candidate.
And I'm gonna tell ya brother, if you are gonna tell me that it is important, that the actions of one black person can impact the life of 40 million others, then we are living in a rotten system and we got some work to do. |
Kc_trudiva
Regular Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 43
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 12:44 pm: |
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oh my! chris i agree with you. i hope to hell that an interviewer in the White corporate america will not let the distorted, percieved confidence of Omarosa be the (pre)judging factor for ALL potentially qualified Black women. that is far-fetched.
and if that is the case then we [Black women] might as well throw in the towel and bitch and moan about how Omarosa's appearance on The Apprentice has ruined it for us. yeah right. what next? an anti-Omarosa discrimination law? give me a break. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 318
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 01:37 pm: |
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Competent interviewers might not hesitate to hire qualified black women for positions in the corporate sector but, in a competitive work place, her white co-workers might invoke the "Omarosa factor" and use it to the detriment of any black woman who gets "uppity". |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 122
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 02:44 pm: |
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Chris,
That is an interesting comparison you make between how Blair's journalistic deceptions called to questions his qualifications while similar troubles by the ex-USA reporter do not (Chris, you might enjoy this: The lying/plagiarizing ex-USA reporter had recently been awarded a PULITZER PRIZE. HAHA!). I think, though, it has been argued, rightly/wrongly, Blair was far too young/experienced to receive the quality/type of assignments he'd received and that it was primarily because of his race that he was given preferences that he might not have received were he White.
One can address what you allude to by answering this simple question: Where or are there any non-Blacks at the NYT who got the quality of writing assignments that Blair received who shared his level of education and job experiences and performance. If the answer to that question is YES, you are justified in feeling that the issue of Blair's qualifications is overblown. If, however, the answer is NO, perhaps you should consider that maybe what others have said is at least partly true.
BTW: I STILL think Blair should be @#$%&slapped by every Black person who has ever worked in journalism.
Dmello,
I think you can relax a bit. It is quite a stretch to say that the Omarosa drama has and/or will negatively affect the social/career standings/opportunities of Black women. One would have to be a narrow-minded blockhead to think that SHE symbolizes any significant percentage of educated/successful Black women. Rather, I believe that she, and all the hoopla surrounding her, is a media 'phenomenon' that is mostly limited her. And even that won't last very long. We will all be asking "Omarosa who?" by this autumn.
I do, however, agree with Cynique that in some situations, a subtle version of an anti-Omarosa card might be wielded against a sistah to quell her dissent from the positions/beliefs of others.
Thumper,
I don't pretend to be an authority on the subgenre of "you-go-girl" books ("go-go-girl" books => YAY!, "you-go-girl" books => NAY!). I do, however, think she seem somewhat similar to what you might find in a Terry McMillian book. Perhaps Omarosa is a living example of "art becoming life".
The moral of the stories of Omarosa and Blair would seem to be as follows: The endless pursuit of fame/fortune makes 'whores' of us all. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 218
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 03:45 pm: |
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unfortunately, we are still judged by the deeds of one.... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 174
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 04:04 pm: |
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Cynique:
Well, what if white co workers come by this site and start using the "Cynique" factor.
Yukio:
Then we are doomed and we may as well all commit suicide. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 219
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:31 pm: |
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chrishayden: Naw, I can just live, be good humans beings, and when we see racism take them to court, though it is very difficult to prove these things... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 324
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:51 pm: |
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I don't get your analogy, Chris. Explain, please. (If you can.) |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 220
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 06:43 pm: |
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Ooops, I meant that we can just live, etc...
Also, It is interesting how people interpret things....does saying that people will use omarosa to judge other blacks mean that they are complaining or stating what could happen...this was the same logic that entered thread about edward jones...
ABM: It is known that many liberals will give unqualified black folk positions to assuage their own guilt. Similarly, some of the unqualified folk will fell, while others will catch up with the rest...this whole business of being qualified, therefore, is complicated, since you can be a qualified black person and lose to a unqualified white affirmative action recipient, such as the friend or family member of the employer.
It must be understood, that qualifications is not enough...and it never was! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 221
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 12:12 am: |
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Checkout this brief story on omarosa:
http://entertainment.msn.com/celebs/article.aspx?news=156216 |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 128
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 12:13 am: |
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I often find that one of the saddest thing about being Black is we, often for tenable reasons, are frequently compelled to defend the defenseless.
I agree there are no perfect, ironclad formulas for hiring/promoting people. Some times those who appear least qualified outperform those with superior credential. And I agree nepotism/cronyism will always figure prominently in the selection process of ANY organization (Cynique, is it true Chicago's powerful Mayor Daley has scores of his kin employed by the city?). Ultimately, even the best H/R program is a time-honored game of odds that presumes a certain amalgam of education/experience/talent will yield the desired results.
But if Blair was by far the youngest, least experienced, under-performing reporter at his job strata, one might have cause to wonder why.
For example, and this should not necessarily be considered a disqualifier for being a good journalist, Blair is a college drop out (U of VA I believe.). That in of itself doesn't necessarily mean anything. But wouldn't a talented/experience/productive Columbia University or NYU journalism grad - White, Asian, Hispanic or other - have reason to be pissed that Blair was hired for and/or promoted to a reporting job that was denied to them?
I know some of us would say "Tuff! It's about time WE enjoy the advantages that THEY have always gotten." But if we support that viewpoint, we not only help to rally the anti-Affirmative Action set, we also may help engender legions more cheating/incompetent Jason Blair's.
And Black foks CAN'T afford having Black 'fiction' writers pose as 'reporters'. We already get enuff of that crap from White journalists. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 222
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 01:51 am: |
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abm: I agree, which is why i made the point about liberal hiring unqualified black people. Both have to be accountable, but unfortunately, when these issues become political...intellect and fairness is lost...and hyperboly and "barbs" are taken as analysis... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 177
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 10:16 am: |
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Cynique:
The analogy is that white co workers can use any factor they want. I used a "Cynique" factor because--and not just you, any person--will say, "I am not doing anything." And on the scale from that brother who killed all those white folks on the train up in NY or a dope dealer or killer or child abuser to Omorosa to Jayson Blair you are not.
But none of us is perfect. If I want to be picky I can find something about your posts on this site to say I don't like and use that.
What it boils down to is that racists can come up with anything. The Curse of Ham from the Bible, fake Science, etc. The wrong is not what Omorosa is doing--the wrong is any person using Omorosa to judge you or me or anybody. The person to be attacked is the one trying to use Omorosa--we are going to have Omorosas and worse. What are we supposed to do about it?
Abm, what are you going to do about it? If I even announce I am going to get up from this computer, slaughter the first black folks I see and eat them, there is nothing you are going to do about it.
I'm tired of black people longmouthing every time a black whose actions they have no control over saying they make us look bad.
I swear, if I was not a righteous black man, my advice to white people would be to get them a picture of Omorosa, and find the nearest black and shove it up in their face--so that negro can see it GOOD--and say to him/her, "You ought to be ashamed to even be alive and breathing after what this bitch did."
And then let them walk away ("Walk AROUND me Negro") and kick them up in the butt for good measure, to which they will reply "Lawd I deserve it. Thank you Jesus!"
I mean, when you do that--and by no means are you the only ones--you really come off as a bunch of self loathing, self pitying losers, and its no wonder that some blacks don't go Uncle Tom on you.
I don't give a damn what Jayson Blair, Omarosa, or any other Black who decides to do something awful does. I didn't do it. I wonder why, given the situation in these United States, more of them DON'T do something heinous.
And what is unqualified. What is qualified. Who is that asshole who is a tv anchorman who has a high school diploma. I know, some of you will get to scratching and shuffling and sayin' "But we cain't do whut de white boyz do. We gotta be twice as good."
That is racism. That means if you are as good as a white person, you are only half as good. I don't think that is true, but if it is, then we got to do something about it. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 178
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 10:24 am: |
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Yukio:
My gawd you posted from a gossip site.
But be that as it may, I did not see the name Yukio anywhere in the story. Nor did I see the name Chris Hayden.
Furthermore, I'm glad she did it. Negroes always talking about reparations. She got some for all those times Negroes were sweet and gentle and got fronted off. She was an ass and still got to go where she wanted (and got plenty of attention, which is what she is after).
Is there a law against being an ass? Donald Trump, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Courtney Love, the list is endless. By the way Nipsey Russell tried to pull the same thing on somebody about some movie tickets a few months ago, but nobody really cares.
A lot of this Omorosa bashing going on--I don't know where it's coming from. She's funny to me. I mean, if this is going to send you to the ER ("Oh the pain! Why don't somebody make her stop?")I think you may as well give up. |
Solomonjones
Newbie Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 10:55 am: |
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Chrishayden -
Your observations on black self-loathing are true and hilarious, in a sad sort of way. The other sad thing is that, in many instances, we do have to be twice as good as whites to make it in the corporate world. That doesn't mean that if you are as good as a white person, you are only half as good. It just means that in some cases, the powers that be can only see half as well.
By the way, I believe the tv anchorman with a high school diploma is Peter Jennings. Is he qualified? You make the call. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 328
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 11:08 am: |
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What you say has some merit, Chris. But since black folk ain't the ones in power, they are put on the defensive when other blacks give whites grist for their racist mill. We're not talkin about what's right. We're talkin about the way it is.
Incidentally, Solomonjones, Peter Jennings is my favorite evening news anchor man; certain as competent as the other "news readers" Tom Brochaw and Dan Rather. |
Solomonjones
Newbie Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 02:12 pm: |
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Cynique -
It's funny you should say that. I recently saw a special report on Jesus that was written and reported by Peter Jennings. I thought it was very well done. A degree doesn't always mean you're the best person for the job. Sometimes it's just about talent. And Jennings has it. Unfortunately, there are black folks with the same type of talent who will never receive the opportunity. Because credentials aren't necessarily used to qualify people. They're used to disqualify people. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 223
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 03:47 pm: |
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Cynique:
I agree with everything you've said, except for PJ being my favorite news anchor man. I don't have one.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 04:24 pm: |
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Chris,
I’m not sure what you mean (or even if you are being totally serious - haha!). But I guess I’ll try to crystallize the point I think you are making by asking this simple question: Do we discard any/all notions of shared social/community standards & responsibility?
I agree with what you (seem to say): We are not we are not imparted some enduring benefit or irreparable harm from what each and every other individual Black person does. But Chris, Black people in this country have survived not via this fallacious (Republican) fantasies of "rugged individualism" (& how "rugged" is the trust fund baby Bush Jr. anyway?). We have had to work together. And working together means establish some effective, mutually beneficial conduct. Without that, you have chaos. Moreover, it is our recent abandonment of communal benefit/accountability that has derailed our further progression, both on an individual and collective basis.
I am always amazed when I read/here Black people discount the importance of shared exceptions/benefit when it is clear that everyone else get prevails on that very basis. I mean, is it an accident that Jews represent only +3% of the nations population yet own/control virtually all of our nation’s media/entertainment sectors?
Heck, a Jew who pulled the comparable BS that @$$hole Blair perpetrated might have been tossed bare naked into a ravenous pack of Palestinians.
I’ll concede that my feelings for Blair are eschewed by the fact that is Black guy had a plumb job at the nation’s flagship newspaper and he pissed it all away. Then, he writes a book that basically slyly inculpate the very company and people how helped to give his cheatin' @$$ opportunities that he $#*+ed all over. And one of the NYT guys who got axed because of Blair’s deceptions was another Brother.
You make worthy points regarding the hoopla surrounding Omarosa. She is mostly a frivolity who popularity will dwindle soon (especially when the subject of some limited form of military ‘draft’ begins to trickle down out of DC real soon).
Solomonjones,
Jennings got his start in the news business...what...almost 50 years ago? Heck, fifty years ago, in certain parts of the country, one could become a Dr., DDS and/or JD without having even attended college. Do we want to return to that standard of academic preparation? I don’t think so. Call me an academic snob if you want, but I believe strongly in rigorous academic preparation and accomplishment. So, all other things being fairly equal, unless someone can provide some very compelling reasons to the contrary, I’d give a journalism job to someone who has a degree...regardless of their color. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 338
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 05:01 pm: |
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50 years ago! Hell, Abm, Jennings ain't that old. (I don't even think he's turned 60 yet.) And from my personal experiences, I have observed that all it takes to be a good journalist in the fourth estate is to be a go-getter with a nose for the news and an analytical mind, natural assets that can't be taught. As for all of these talking-head anchor men, they don't even write their own copy, all they do is read a teleprompter. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 134
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 05:19 pm: |
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http://schwinger.harvard.edu/~terning/bios/Jennings.html
"Peter Jennings (1938- )
born in Toronto, Ontario
father, Charles, was a leading journalist, announcer, and later executive with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)
at age nine, hosted a half-hour weekly children's show on CBC
became an interviewer for an Ontario radio station after dropping out of preparatory school, then joined the CBC as host of a public-affairs program..."
Cynique,
By my calculations, that would mean Jennings was 16 years ago 50 years ago (Botox does wonders, doesn't it?). And, according the site above, dudes media career is actually GREATER than 50 years in duration. |
Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 05:45 pm: |
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Well Abm, I don't think you can compare a journalist to a doctor. Anyone can ask questions at a scene and report what the answer is. As a matter of fact with technology they don't even have to be a good speller who would know as long as they can form the proper sentence? But on the other hand if a doctor is suppose to do a triple bypass but makes the incision in the abdomen then as they say-Houston, we have a problem.
Chris, I couldn't agree with you more. What Omarosa did is not new and as long as we're not the ones out there making a fool of ourselves then don't lose any sleep over what she did and is still doing. Black people have been just as deceiving as white people from the beginning and that has not had an impact on the hiring of black people nor promoting them.
While it is true that we still have to work twice as hard to be noticed, we are not working as hard as our forefathers and should keep working for the next generation who BTW will have it better than us.
My two cents. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 224
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 06:30 pm: |
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Eviana: How does one not "lose sleep" if their not like omarose...IF they are indeed twice as good as white folk?
How does one measure if "we" are working as hard as our forefathers and foremothers(lets not forget)? And if we were "working as hard," what difference would it make for our conditions?
chrishayden: this conversation is no different than the epj thread, or perhaps i misunderstood your points.
All: From this thread to the epj thread, I've always talked about "power" and again in this case, white folk have it....is this not true? If it is, then we must "lose sleep," for we must be awake and available when it is time to claim our rights when they have been denied...otherwise, to appreciate that black folk are as foolish, coniving, ignorant as all others is quite humane, but also to, some degrees, suggest that our efforts are enough to speak for themselves....if this was not the case, why would we have to be "twice as good"?
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Emanuel
Newbie Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
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The following article appears on Africana.com concerning the subject:
Black women need fiction as a free place for greedily testing the capacity of our emotional range. We want to plunge into and feel our deep, rock style, laugh and be allowed to misbehave throughout the course of our tale. In every corner that provides sensuous space in life, I have had my eye out for an adequate love fiction recognizing black women who gleam and blush.
Authors like Toni Morrison and Alice Walker, who have received the highest literary honors and public acclaim for their preeminence, have written stories that are often dismissed as “too depressing” or “too deep,” despite beautiful language and richly layered themes of black life, by the woman who longs for a light train read after a harrowing day at work. Black women approaching or already ensconced in their thirties are searching for their own print version of HBO’s hit series Sex and the City.
Women of all nationalities lost their heels running home to watch Sex and the City every Sunday night at nine o’clock. The show followed the intimate and hilarious lives of four women, all friends, who talked openly about sex and sexuality. Though the series, now ended, lasted a mere half hour once a week, it was a catalyst for a burgeoning genre in the publishing industry.
Chick Lit (literature geared towards single women in their late twenties and thirties who have achieved material success, yet still lack inner wholeness and a man) can be found on Barnes & Noble’s front tables as soon as you push open the doors. The covers, with eggshell white, pastel pink, turquoise, or lavender backgrounds, feature drawings of skinny blondes with a stiletto heeled foot in the air, a cute short black skirt and a Marc Jacobs style fashion bag on her arm. The novels follow a simple formula: The protagonist decides that she is no longer going to binge eat and watch television on her couch as a happy sloth and instead signs up for a gym membership and starts eating steamed vegetables and brown rice and is rewarded with either a man, a new career, a better body or new-found self-esteem. However, while these fictional to life white women exorcise their inner demons for a dream life infused with Buddha meditations, black women searching to heal and be transformed are hard pressed to find themselves dressed in pink.
As far as Chick Lit is concerned, white women’s palates have been appeased. Their thirst for a millennium female model: professional with a career (usually in media), struggling with identity and self esteem, bad choices, and desiring a transformation to a fuller more thoughtful life while wearing Prada has been met starting with bestsellers like Helen Fielding’s Bridget Jones's Diary, Laura Zigman’s Animal Husbandry and more recently Jennifer Weiner’s Good in Bed, the latter slated to become an HBO series. In the early nineties black women received a taste of a contemporary self in J. California Cooper’s short story collections Some Soul to Keep and Homemade Love, Terry McMillan’s Disappearing Acts and Waiting to Exhale and April Sinclair’s Coffee Will Make You Black. But even Waiting to Exhale’s female characters, though hip for their time, lacked the glitter and glamour of an ordinary duckling transformed into a fabulous swan, promoted to a fabulous executive position, all while wearing fabulous shoes flanked by a fabulous dude, and ending with her musing on her new fabulous life over martinis in the latest New York or Los Angeles hot spot.
So what is a hip black chick who has exhausted her library of Terry McMillan, moved on to E. Lynn Harris, and then felt bored and yawned after reading Omar Tyree but is not interested in Bridget Jones and her weight problems to do? Where is the black woman’s chick lit? Enter Charlotte Burley and Lyah Beth Leflore, co-authors of Cosmopolitan Girls, Karen V. Siplin author of His Insignificant Other (which was billed as the black Bridget Jones), and Tia Williams author of the forthcoming novel, The Accidental Diva. These authors represent those, who like science fiction genius Octavia Butler, take the initiative to realize their own visibility and write themselves into a genre.
Cosmopolitan Girls is offered up as a brown girl’s Sex and the City. In theory this is exciting, however, awkward dialogue, an invisible plot and paper doll characters reduce the book to a bunch of pages bound together with text instead of pictures. Name and label dropping act as the meat of the story and prevent potentially fun adventures and exchanges from forming a deeper more coherent read. You do suck your teeth a lot and enjoy a private call and response once you realize the story is not going to develop past no-good-cheating-men and stick-together-girlfriends. I found myself uttering a lot of “mmhm’s” and “yeah, girl’s” while thinking “you better hop in your BMW 325I and be out ‘cause that man ain’t no good.” In The Accidental Diva, Billie Burke, a beauty editor at a fashion magazine, struggles with her commitment phobia after her boyfriend, Jay Lane, a performance artist from the projects, proposes marriage. Billie starts doubting her ability to keep a relationship and finds herself forced to deal with the pain of healing wounds from old family relationships before she can process the twists and turns of her own love life. The Accidental Diva is set in Fort Greene, Brooklyn where all the beautiful people meet and sip cappuccinos. Published in 2002, His Significant Other is a foray into a love triangle. Casey Beck battles the return of her boyfriend’s long-term ex-girlfriend which causes Casey to reevaluate her idea of the mythical “perfect relationship.” Would I Lie to You by Trisha R. Thomas, author of the award winning Nappily Ever After, soon to be a film starring Halle Berry, charts a similar sequence with Venus Johnston. Venus moves to Los Angeles to center herself when she meets a rap star turned clothing designer and wonders if she can love him and marry her fiancé back home, all while helping her mother battle breast cancer. The writing is far more competent than Cosmopolitan Girls but I still felt like I was watching Brown Sugar or reading a back issue of Honey magazine.
A troublesome element of these stories is how much they rely on a black bourgie urban scene to carry the reader, though I realize, if we’re not already living it, many of us desire the “fabulous” life. Reading Chick Lit for black girls is akin to watching an extended hip hop music video. The male and female characters are up on the latest everything from what hot car to drive, which cocktail to drink, what sport to watch or play, and which slang to use. They are also culturally astute. They know the name of every kind of sushi and are familiar with every visual artist ever exhibited in a gallery. They have computer generated personalities, infallible with no humanizing quirks. The central issue, though ostensibly written as finding self-love and fulfilling work, is finding a good man and appearing like a good Christian woman. And the pile of them churning out of the publishing houses grows and expands every day.
Since black Chick Lit has proved necessary, authors and editors owe it to their readers to create a humorous and substantive product. All too many recently published novels cheapen the reading experience with stilted language and unrealistically dramatic scenes. Marissa Monteilh’s Hot Boyz, to be published later this year, opens with a bloody shooting in an upscale neighborhood then moves to a ménage a trois in a four star hotel. Much of Hot Boyz describes Rolex watches worn by the black male club owner, golf star, and realtor. The book promises “money, power, respect,” but the most important element, the fact that writing is supposed to be artistic, is lost. Is it too much to ask for a setting beyond the black leather office chair, in the immaculate home office in the luxurious house located on sprawling acres of land? Can someone please pay attention to grammar and run-on sentences? How about a semblance of originality in the storylines. If a risk cannot be taken for art, why bother?
Don’t get me wrong, I liked the sepia toned film Brown Sugar and read Honey before its demise. I can mix with the masses. Shoot. I want the thrill of erotic justice. Young, single, working women have sex and that is healthy. But in these novels, black women’s sexual power is usurped by materially successful men. What can we learn from this? How do we learn to improve our writing if the current standard never transcends mediocre or merely competent? If black women and our complex inner themes rule the space black Chick Lit is supposed to provide, then we have to hold ourselves accountable to our expectations. We must enrich our talent by honing our skills and personifying art before we trip and fall flat on our faces in Prada.
First published: April 13, 2004
About the Author
Anika is a writer who shares a pad with her son in Brooklyn.
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Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 02:29 pm: |
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Yukio,
Why would you lose sleep? Are you not confident in yourself that no matter who you come up against in the business world that you will always be victorious? Well maybe not always, but 90% of the time. I am and therefore it don't bother me that there are people out there who will stab me in the back just as quick as they smile at me, because I'm prepared for such an attack. I know it's happening and I'm not caught off guard when that person rears their ugly head. That's why I don't lose any sleep over people like Omarosa.
And yes, we do have to continue the fight that our forefathers and I won't forget our foremothers have started. Look at the issues that surrounds University of Michigan. If people wouldn't have fought to keep race an issue for entrance than many of our people would not be allowed to attend the college in the future. So you measure how hard one is working by the accomplishments that we as a people acheive rather it's on a individual level or as a group.
I hope this answers your questions. |
Solomonjones
Newbie Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
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ABM -
You said:
"Call me an academic snob if you want, but I believe strongly in rigorous academic preparation and accomplishment. So, all other things being fairly equal, unless someone can provide some very compelling reasons to the contrary, I’d give a journalism job to someone who has a degree...regardless of their color."
I say:
I have a journalism B.A. It's been helpful. But I'm a writer. I actually have to research and write stories. But you don't need a degree to sit in front of cameras and read copy that someone else has written. All you need is a nice face and a good voice. So, if I had a television network and could get higher ratings (and thus charge more for advertisement) by hiring Peter Jennings, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. No degree and all.
Media is a business, and media owners are in it to make money. As media diversifies and niche marketing determines profitability, academic qualifications will mean less and less. Just ask Peter Jennings . . .
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 226
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 01:09 am: |
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Eviana:
In my mind, sleeping and fighting are contradictions...
So, my competence is only half the battle, for I must be awake to fight.
Anyways, we don't disagree.
Thank You |
Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 05:19 pm: |
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Solomonjones,
You mentioned that you are a writer. Are you published? If so, what are your titles? |
Bookgirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 71
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 07:38 pm: |
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Hello to all: I just read The Perfect Blend by C. Kelly Robinson. It's a sequel to his first novel, No More MIster Nice Guy. Would you call that "u go boy lit" as in "u go girl lit" since it's written by a man? Just wondering..... |
Thumper
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 115
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 09:17 pm: |
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Hello All,
Eviana: *smile* OK, at the risk of embarrasing Solomon, I'll do my best to imitate Aretha to sing his praises. *clearing my throat*
Solomon Jones is very much a writer, actually one of the best we have today. He's a journalist for the Philadelphia Weekly. And he has two novels under his belt: Pipe Dreams, which was debut novel; The Bridge, his second novel, which (between me and you) was off the chain! I haven't heard of anyone who have read The Bridge say that they did not like it. Check him out and let me know what you think.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312306156/aalbccom-20 |
Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 11:16 pm: |
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Thanks Thumper,
I will. Sorry Solomon, never heard of you. |
Solomonjones
Newbie Poster
Username: Solomonjones
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 03:48 pm: |
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Thumper -
Thanks for the high praises. I really appreciate that. It means a lot, because I know that you read almost everything, and you would know how my writing stacks up to that of my contemporaries.
Eviana, don't be sorry that you haven't heard of me. I'm still working my butt off to get to the next level. Both Pipe Dream and The Bridge were published by major houses (Random House and St. Martin's Press, respectively) and my third novel, Ride Or Die (St. Martin's Press), will be out this summer. Thus far, the critics have been effusive in their praise (starred Kirkus Review, award nominations, etc.), and sales have been steady. My books have been featured in Essence, The Source, Ebony, etc., and The Bridge made number nine on the Essence bestseller list. I'll be going on my third national tour this summer, as well. Maybe I'll run into you and introduce myself.
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Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:10 pm: |
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Solomon,
Now there's an invitation I can't refuse. Good Luck! and I'll look for your tour. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 190
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 10:42 am: |
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Abm:
All races of people contain ignorant, stupid, evil people. To insist that black people alone be perfect is racism. Again I ask you, if I commit a murder are you ready to go in and take the penalty for me?
Of course not. I guess folks want to seem like they are good, "I ain't like those others". Well, what you are saying is you are.
It's like ol' Massa telling you, "See that one over there? He ain't no good. He is reflecting badly on all of you."
And you get all knotted up inside, balling up your fists, figuring if it wasn't for him, we'd be ahead.
You know, I don't see any other group doing this. That means that it is a deviant behavior. Unnatural. Subhuman, in a way.
It doesn't make you one whit better for you to take upon your shoulders the guilt of someone you don't even know and you couldn't influence. It just means sooner or later you'll be borne down under the weight of a bunch of sins you didn't even have to carry.
My nephew came to me the other day, told me he was tired of black folks. We all feel that way, sometimes--I pull out of it by saying if I am tired of Black folks, that means I am tired of myself.
I asked him why.
He said because they were always complaining about things they couldn't do anything about. I told him that the people he was referring to, some of his school chums, were just frustrated and young, and when they matured they would do better and only sing them lawdy lawdy blues about something they could effect and then they would go out and do something.
What should I tell him now? |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 231
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 01:44 pm: |
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chrishayden:
Tell him to do his best, tell folk who aren't doing their best to do so, and finally tell him to organize and/or speak against folk who hold u back, whether it is your own people or others...
The problem is, people like to focus on one or the other. It is easy to tell people to get their own act together, since many who complain do have some work to do for themselves. Yet, there is, will always be, the question of the government's and citizens accountability for their actions. Consequently, your nephew needs to determine if there is any validity to his colleagues complaints.
The essential question, and this what one of my mantras, Is one's life chances solely determined by their efforts?
I say no, I say it is our efforts and the efforts of the state, private and public institutions to be just(whatever that means depends on the context). |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 137
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 04:03 pm: |
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Chris,
Dude, you are funny. Man, I ain’t "doing time" for my mamma...much less for you. But I would (and do) support your prison literacy/GED programs and I would consider hiring you...after you paid your penance to society. HAHA!!
You are using some interesting bit of hyperbole to argue your point, which, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate and enjoy. But, alas My Brother, you eschew from the more relevant point which is should we expect ANY communal fidelity/responsibility among Black people. You seem to being saying NO. I think otherwise.
I understand what you are saying. If everyone out for his/herself, why should I bother with what another does? And I’m not out to coerce anybody into doing anything they don’t want to (Well, accept for make my teenager daughter clean up her bedroom).
But I will promote what is mutually beneficial for Black people. And won’t make excuses for improprieties of others simply because we’re of the same race. Simply: I won’t use the crap pouring out from White people to disguise our own $#@+.
Yes, I do have expectations of Black people. Often I am disappointed by what I witness. Other times I am elated. I certainly am not guilted or discombobulated by the shenanigans of Blairs and the Omarosas of the world. And I see little detriment with calling them on their foolishness.
Actually, I think much of the intra-racial expectations/criticism can in many ways be a healthy bit of self-analysis. Frankly, I wouldn’t even be alive today if there weren’t a lot of people who expected more of me than I even expected of myself.
I guess I can’t help thinking about an older brother I know who rabidly support any/all kids sporting events near where I live. And he does this even though his own kids have long since matured and move on to productive lives. When I asked him why he continues to help out he (1/2) jokingly said he does so because if he can distract the young brothers with football/basketball/baseball, they wouldn’t have enuff time to break into his home...or to get his granddaughters pregnant.
BTW: If you nephew is an artist, I suggest that you recommend he use his frustration to write a song, story or rap about why he’s "tired of Black folks". If he’s got any talent, I’m sure he’ll score a hit! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 139
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 04:14 pm: |
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Also, if you recall, I said that Blair’s not having a degree is not in of itself a disqualifier for being a journalist. Rather, I said that college-educated applicant who have talented/skilled/experienced might have reason to complain about his being hired/promoted over them. And I said all things being equal, I would hire those with degrees.
I repeat: Peter Jennings got into the media business 1/2 a century ago. Fifty years ago there was no such thing as or little-to-no public knowledge/discussion of a personal computer, the Internet, Sonic speed, in vitro fertilization, a lunar landing, genome technology and cloning, Mars landing, silicon chips, nanotechnology, etc et al. Do we REALLY want the academic qualifications that were prevalent during the of the Eisenhower administration to prevail now?
I agree that becoming a journalist doesn’t require the level of formal academic preparation (Eviana) that is required by Medicine, Law or Engineering (though I do think a journalist can be every bit the scholar that a Dr., Lawyer or Engineer might be). But I do think a good college education allows one to acquire a foundation of knowledge from which one can perform the caliber of research (Solomonjones) necessary to be a competent journalist. Could one obtain such a foundation sans the Academy? Certainly! But they will likely have to be at least doubly motivated to acquire the same depth/breath of information/training that is often much more easily available in a collegiate setting.
So I repeat, all things being equal, I’ll bet on the kid who’s tottin’ the sheepskin.
Because while I agree you don’t need a degree to ask a question, I also think having some depth/breath of academic training increase ones chances of being capable of asking the RIGHT questions and - even more importantly - to discern when one is receiving plausible answers.
And frankly, (no offense intended Solomonjones) I think the media would benefit from having fewer people with Journalism degrees and more people with Chemistry, Finance and Philosophy degrees. I, for example, assert that one of reasons why Arthur Anderson, Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, etc. were able to defraud investors out of $billions was there are too many J-schoolers in Media and not enuff CPA’s.
Lastly, we seem to be mixing arguments here. Jennings relative lack of education is being misapplied in this discussion. Hell! Were I a media exec grappling in the hardscrabble ratings war of TV news, I’d even consider hiring irreverent rapper Ol’ Dirty Bastard to read copy from a teleprompter if the Nielsen numbers were there. But I wouldn’t dare hire ODB to report/draft/edit what is suppose to be real, legitimate, vital news/literary copy/commentary for the New York Times (for Christ Sake!). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 346
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 04:24 pm: |
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Tell your nephew that Life's as bitch. Nobody ever promised him a rose garden. He just has to keep on truckin' |
Eviana
Regular Poster
Username: Eviana
Post Number: 44
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 05:12 pm: |
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Chris,
You would tell your nephew instead of being tired of black people, that he should be proud of them. Sure this is a few that have gone astray, but what has the one race who is just about hated by all other races accomplished. We as a people have mastered our domain and that is another reason our struggle is still present. Black people have a inner strength like no other race. Why should he be tired of that? Tell him to look at the positive and not the negative and he will see things a lot different. Tell him to look at all of those who became the first black to accomplish a task and what accomplishment were made from it.
But first you have to look within yourself and ask if you have a positive or negative attitude about black, because the way you answer this question will tell you if you can help your nephew. |
Klb
Regular Poster
Username: Klb
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 11:33 pm: |
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Speaking of YGG novels. I went to the library today and Leaving Cecil Street Diane McKinney Whetstone and Harlem Redux- Persia Walker have the exact same picture on the cover. Does This prove they all are the same. Why even bother with an orginal jacket. |
Bookgirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 09:58 pm: |
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Leaving Cecil Street isn't a YGG novel. I'm reading it now. I'm haven't read Harlem Redux.
So the covers are the exact same? Does the author have any control over the covers?
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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 238
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 11:14 pm: |
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bg: good question. it is wrong to have the same cover, especially when the black readership is so small. Folk could see the cover and thing it is the other book, which they already read. |
Bookgirl
Veteran Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 01:54 am: |
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You know looking at the jacket of Cecil Street it says: "Jacket painting: BLUES by Archibald J. Motley, 1929/Chicago Historical Society"
It's really an attractive jacket and I wouldn't mind having a framed print of the painting. LOL
But you're right Yukio; it could confuse the consumer if they just glance at the book on display. |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 06:53 am: |
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Bookgirl wrote:
Leaving Cecil Street isn't a YGG novel. I'm reading it now. I'm haven't read Harlem Redux.
I've read Harlem Redux and it certainly isn't a YGG novel either. It seems the cover is more fitting for HR rather than LCS because of the time periods of both novels. LCS is set in the 1969. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 239
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 07:36 am: |
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jmho: black folk were dancing in suits and dresses during the 60s...lmao! Most black folk did not participate in the movement(s). But u are right the cover does fit HR.
bookgirl: I only say so because if I don't already know about the author or am not purposely going to barnes and nobles to purchase the book (there are no black book stores where i live) then it is the cover that usually catches me and indeed YCS did (though i didn't buy the book); I haven't read HR so YCS didn't turn me away, but if i had read HR, I would've just walked right past YCS. |
Klb
Regular Poster
Username: Klb
Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 10:08 am: |
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My BAD,
Cecil Street is not a YGG novel. It was actually pretty good. I was just suprised that 2 novels published relatively close together have the same cover. It doesn't change the books content but I wonder if it is damaging from a marketing standpoint. It was more trivia than anything. |
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