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Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 02:10 pm: | 
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Did any of you see the movie that aired on FX last night? The movie starred Jamie Foxx and Lynn Whitfield. It is the story of Stanley Williams, founder of the Crypts. It chronicled his life and his need to help the youth of today to not walk down the same path he took. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize for Literature for his childrens books on Gangs. Has anybody seen his books? Read them? Your thoughts on the movie and of this man's life? |
Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 02:24 pm: |
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akaivyleaf: i saw the movie and at first i wasn't feeling [him] and his perceived arrogance as it was being portrayed. but after realizing that Lynn (forgot her character name) wasn't no prissyfoot, he changed his tune.
the movie was moving and i felt it's message was sent. i also watched jamie foxx on tavis smiley, and tavis asked the question, "how can you claim redemption when you've already killed four people?" hmm, well judging by the movie, the answer is clear that he was being reedemed from his past life as a gang banger, murderer, etc. he was being reformed. but i guess being locked up behind four walls and bars gives you nothing but time. to think. i imagined i'd be redeemed to, or crazy. the more i think about it, i think crazy would win with me.
ess
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Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 02:46 pm: |
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I think another message he was sending is that redemption doesn't mean absolution from his crime. He's fully aware that he has to pay what the law has prescribed as restitution for his crimes, but he is redeemed from his personal guilt by trying to prevent others from glorifying his past and aspiring to be like him. |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 51
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 03:03 pm: |
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Folks, please don’t be suckers!
I didn’t see the movie. Actually, I intentionally avoided watching it. Because it seems quite convenient for Williams to now claim redemption when the law has made him incapable of doing little else. If what he does leads to the abolishment of the Crypts, MAYBE then he’d be worth listening to.
And remember: This dude is a hustler. And he's apparently so persuasive that he was able to fashion a street gang that's feared throughout the country. So I can’t help wondering whether Williams is simply playing the redemption game as part of a masterplan to garner leniency from the State to possibly have his sentence reduced or commuted. |
Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 03:33 pm: |
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abm: *licking my lollipop* i like suckers, especially the apple flavored ones.
hmm, that theory (about hustling) might hold some truth if it were [he] who sought out the book deal and not the other way around. the journalist approached him to tell his story and he agreed after much reluctance. but i guess since you didn't see the movie, you wouldn't know that.
but he is taking advantage of opportunites...but to what extent is not clear. but again, based on the movie, this book didn't garner positive attention for him. according to the movie, his appeal was denied afterwards.
ess
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Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
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Whew, never been called a sucker before. PT Barnum says one is born every minute but I wasn't the chosen one the minute of my birth!
You're right he is a master hustler but I think he's reached the end of the road. While he might not be running toward the needle that will take his life, I don't believe the sentence is not going to be commuted or reduced. I don't think that is what he's after either. The movie made a point of him obviously being depressed about the death sentence but he never has begged for any other termination of his sentence. The point was to save others from his fate. |
Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 03:43 pm: |
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and to add to what akaivy said, there was a scene in the movie where he dreamt that he was being excuted. he said he was ready to accept his fate regardless. he wasn't writing letters to get out of jail, just to get off death roll. he wanted to continue to get his message across even from behind bars. so does that mean he's hustling to keep a hustler from hustling and ending up like him? *one eyebrow up*
ess |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 246
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 04:03 pm: |
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I didn't catch the movie either, but wasn't the book he wrote a children's book? Does he get points for that? |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 54
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 04:38 pm: |
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Well, I’m sure you ladies all make some good points. And yes, I haven’t seen the movie. So I definitely lack knowledge of what ever nuances on Williams’ story that he’d have us see/understand.
Still, I don’t I ever intend to watch this film. Because I grew up amongst gangs. Lost friends and kin to them. So whatever Williams’ say will likely be an old, sad and stupid story to me. I only wish to him whatever GOD feels is due to him. Then farewell.
Rather, I’d much rather focus my attention on the 4 people Williams killed. And the countless other lives - many of which were helpless, innocent men, women and children - that have been lost via the activities of the infamous gang that he created.
BTW: Kc_trudiva. You are just trying to bait me in trouble with your "*licking my lollipop*" talk. Aren't you? |
Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 08:38 am: |
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abm: *shaking my head* i'm enthralled by your sense of humor. don't fall for my bait (and switch) tactic, 'cause i eventually end up "biting" my lollipops. ahaha
and my sentiments for the victims (past and present) resulting from his creation of the crypts. it a sad truth that keeps festering even though he's allegedly trying to undo it. but how much power can a person in prison really have? i mean, i've heard stories but...
p.s. abm don't think i'm siding with you; i'm just agreeing with something you've said. don't argue the difference. HA! |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 08:49 am: |
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Cynique... his books were/are childrens books but I'm not quite sure what you mean by "get points". I don't think he wrote children's books for the sake of getting off death row or getting out of prison, like I said I think he's accepted his fate. Now some of his followers - by websites I've been reading yesterday and today- think that his writing should get him released.
ABM- You're right. The victims were not talked about in the movie. That was the unheard side of the story and one that must be addressed. He killed 4 people and many other people were negatively affected by his charasmatic and hypnotic influence on people weaker than he. While it wasn't addressed in the movie, I still think that he didn't feel that he deserved to be released and he would pay for his crimes as the state deemed.
I too grew up in a gang infested environment and many people say that I'm from a place where "People will as soon kill you as look at you" but just because you're from that environment doesn't mean that you perpetuate the talk. There are bright stars everywhere. Unfortunately there are weak minds everywhere too.
I'm also glad to see that you've changed your tone from sucker to lady, I appreciate that. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 121
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
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Abm:
I am not about to defend Tookie Williams. Brother got a lot of baggage and a lot to anser Bfor starting up the Crips (he was co founder by the way along with another guy named Raymond Washington who was gunned down back in the 70's) But as far as the victims, did anyone ever focus on Billy the Kid's Victims? Jack the Ripper's Victims? They go to the monster, not the prey.
I think one of the things that make the guy's story at least of interest is how somebody who was a thug a murderer and got on death row had these talents (which would have kept him out of trouble had he excercised them outside the walls)
I think that we owe it to ourselves to study these people and see what makes them tick. I know, you are going to say you don't care or you know. Walk on by his story and watch something else. It will only bring you down.
One other thing--although I can't explain why he still wields great weight in the gangbanging world (I wouldn't want to listen to anybody who wound up on Death Row) One thing I am sure the story didn't go into was that, at one time the Crips were trying to form a politically sensitive community oriented group called CCO (Consolidated Crip Organization) and he and others torpedoed it. The cops and social workers and everybody else have not been able to stop or control this. He could be of service.
By the way, ain't nobody took the death sentences off of him, so he ain't getting away with anything. |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 12:36 pm: |
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What do you think of his nomination for the Nobel Prize for Literature? Aside from the fact that prizes are a bunch of bull in my book...do you think his books warrant such notariety? I did an amazon search and came up with 9 books authored by Williams.
Has anybody read his books? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 250
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:15 pm: |
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When I asked about Williams being given points for writing a children's book, Akaivyleaf, I meant that shouldn't he be given credit for having his heart in the right place. And to his detractors I say that redemption comes from a higher source than those who seek vengeance. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 125
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:33 pm: |
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Akaivyleaf: Sight unseen I will state that his nomination for the Nobel Prize for Literature (I thought it was a Peace Prize) is a joke. |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:35 pm: |
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He was actually nominated for both. The Peace prize one year, and Literature the next... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 126
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 01:38 pm: |
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All:
Check it out
http://www.tookie.com/booktemp.html
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Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:18 pm: |
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chris: thanks for the link; it's very informative and has given me a new light on Tookie's motives. it's actually inspiring to know that he's making a concerted effort (judging by the info on the site) to right his wrongs, so to speak.
ess |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 58
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:58 pm: |
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Kc_trudiva,
You in part make my point: What good is Williams now? He is, for all practical purposes, dead. The youngsters he would try to influence very likely view him and his actions to be those of a faded relic, who’s frantically trying to prove his wasteful life mattered...or to stave off execution.
We are all carrying on about what he’s done post-Cript. But still the scroll of his former(?) gang grows. So other than provide good copy for gullible Blacks and liberal Whites, what good is he?
Akaivyleaf,
Forgive me. Sometimes my hyperbolic nature gets the better of me and I say things in a way I often regret. I never mean to offend. Provoke, yes. Entertain, yes. Offend, no.
But what do you mean by "...just because you're from that environment doesn't mean that you perpetuate the talk."? Is that what you think that I am attempting to do?
Chris,
It’s true we often seem to like the ‘wolf’ more than we do the ‘lamb’. But what does that say of us?
And William’s apparent bevy of talents make him even more of a monster to me than he would be were he inept. But I suppose I agree he warrants some study, just not as much as he and others would suggest.
Cynique,
No disrespect: But Darlin' you have NO IDEA what "place" William’s heart is in. Again, all of what he’s done very well could be a part of a hustle. Just because dude isn't overtly beggin' for his life doesn't mean he isn't trying to create an environment so that others might. (Maybe Williams is playing 'Chess', not 'Checker'.)
BTW: Kc_trudiva, believe-you-me, if you are "enthralled" by my humor, wait to you get a ‘load’ of my chocolate-flavored Tootsie pop. (Think you can make it to the 'center' without 'biting'?) |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 38
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:25 pm: |
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No actually ABM I was referring to myself and the environment I grew up in. Some people look at me with distain when I tell them that I grew up in East St. Louis, Illinois thinking that I have to be "rough" when in actuality I grew up there but I don't have that perceived mentality. Their perceptions of what they've heard about the place place me low on their totem poles instead of getting to know me as an individual. So again, people can be part of something, but that doesn't that something is part of them.
I was merely agreeing with you when you said you grew up amongst gangs and lost friends and kin to them. I can truly relate. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 176
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:39 pm: |
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Akaivyleaf:
Not only should they get to know you, but know themselves. Many of these people participate in the same behaviors as socalled ghetto kids, but their "delinquence" is hidden or camoflauged by their money and outward appearance. Part of the problem is that folk often equate success or the lack there of with one's behavior. While it is certainly contributive, it is often not the only or even fundamental cause of their living conditions.
I would submit that most of the people from environments like yourself are more like you...some black folk can be so "moral" and "elite" these days that they characterize our own communities as jungles and the denizens as animals. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:46 pm: |
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Akaivyleaf:
I have spent a lot of time on the East Side and never had any trouble there, which is more than I can say for the STL.
If you go someplace looking for trouble you will find it. |
Kc_trudiva
Newbie Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 03:50 pm: |
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abm: *biting the tootsie pop* sorry, my jaws were starting to hurt. *sly grin*
but good point (sorry to admit) on the fact that Williams may be indulging in a game of chess with an unsuspecting opponent - journalist Barbara whatshername. i must admit, there was one time during the film i thought he was hustling her and using her as his "outside" contact. and that thought still lingers judging by the amount of publicity he's garnered.
ess |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 39
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:08 pm: |
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DING DING DING DING! You said it Chrishayden, if you go looking for trouble you are sure to find it! Thank you! I fully concur! |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 60
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:19 pm: |
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I gotchu, Akaivyleaf. Thanks for clarifying. And us foks from dah ‘wrong side of the tracks gottah stick tugethah.
Kc_trudiva, a hustler hustles. It don’t matter where he is and what game he plays, his mission is ALWAYS the same.
Oh! BTW...OUCH! (@#$% blasted amateurs!) You didn’t have to bite to taste the 'creamy chocolate center'. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 255
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 05:04 pm: |
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Well, ABM, not only do I not have any idea where Williams' heart is but, - neither do you. I don't find it hard to conceive of the idea that, in the sanctuary of his long term solitude, a man reflects on his life and decides he wants to atone for his past. |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 61
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 09:13 pm: |
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That's true, Cynique: Neither of us know what is in Williams' heart. But we both know the evil he's done and what has been the dreadful result of it. And it is upon THAT, not some cheesy books/movies, that he will be judged.
And may GOD have mercy on his soul. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 259
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:51 am: |
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If his books prevent one black child from going bad, then he is redeemed. All sinners have a chance to be forgiven - if you believe in Christianity. |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:15 am: |
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True CYnique but does forgiveness mean that he should be absolved of his crimes? As a Christian I'm not advocating the death penalty by any means but God doesn't excuse us from the laws of the land. In the old testament there was the practice of an eye for an eye. The New Testament, Jesus was the fulfilment of the law and as such died for our sins as did the other criminals mounted on either side of him. But this isn't a theological discussion so I'll stop here.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 262
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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I'll defer to you on this issue, Akaivyleaf, because I am definitely not up on the tenets of Christianity. I just thought that born-again Christians were absolved of their sins. And, of course, I don't even know whether or not Williams has found Jesus. |
Pierced
Newbie Poster
Username: Pierced
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:49 pm: |
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Born again Christians are not automatically absolved of their sins - only when they truly repent and ask for forgiveness.
However, although God forgives, you still have to pay the penalties for criminal actions. And there is reciprocity for good and bad actions.
Sorry, I know this is not the topic of discussion. Just had to throw that in there. |
Lambd
Veteran Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 71
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:31 am: |
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I'm no expert either, but I thought that that's what it meant to be a 'born again christian'. The fact the you have truly repented and and asked for forgiveness, in so doing, you have accepted Christ as your savior. I thought that was the mainstay of your religion. Isn't God's forgiveness supposed to override what man says and does? Even if you pay for yor actions here on Earth, isn't your reward in the afterlife supposed to be more than worth it? So, if God forgives you, and man does not, it should still be all good...Right? If your homeboy is on deathrow, let him stay on deathrow, and let God sort it out later. |
Lambd
Veteran Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:33 am: |
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That movie is coming on again tonight at eight and eleven. I will try to check it out. |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:23 pm: |
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I agree with what you say Pierced. Being Born Again is to try to live your life in a more Christ Like manner but it DOES NOT mean that you won't sin, just that you are supposed to be more aware and seek forgiveness and make amends for the wrongs that you cause.
God's forgiveness does "override" man...His thoughts and ways are higher than ours and the reward is eternal life with Him if we submit ourselves to His rule.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 271
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:57 pm: |
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Hopefully. |
Lambd
Veteran Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 08:09 am: |
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On Thursday, April 15, 2004, Cynique wrote one word..>>>>>>>>>> 'Hopefully.'
Cynique, which part of Akaivyleaf's post were you referring to? |
Abm
Veteran Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 75
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 10:19 am: |
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It is interesting how the discussion of this topic has taken an 'Evangelical' turn. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 275
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 11:22 am: |
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Hi Lambd,
The following segment is what I responded "Hopefully" to: "God's forgiveness does "override" man...His thoughts and ways are higher than ours and the reward is eternal life with Him if we submit ourselves to His rule."
I am not very religious but I am comfortable with many aspects of Zen Buddhism, a sect which differs in many ways from what Christians believe to be the gospel.
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Lambd
Veteran Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 02:13 pm: |
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Cool!...Well worded response. I expected no less, C-neek.
Abm, I will always be shocked to see the letters
'a-n-g-e-l' in any of your posts, in any way, shape or form. However, I think you could be very comfortable taking the "angel" and the "ca" out of 'Evangelical'. |
Abm
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 02:30 pm: |
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Come on now, Lambd, I really am a sweetheart. Don't you think?
Although: Lucifer was once GOD’s prized angel. And we all know what happened to their relationship. So, perhaps...
Seriously, though, what you did with "Evangelical" was very clever, Lambd. You must kicka$$ at Scrabble. HAHA! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 285
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 03:58 pm: |
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Flattery will get you somewhere, Lambd. And C-Neek may not be an angel, but she knows how to spread her - wings. Jesus! Did I say that??? Abm is influencing me more than I realize. |
Abm
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 04:36 pm: |
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Then come, Cynique. And I'll let your 'wings' fly wide and high. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 287
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 05:13 pm: |
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I'll come all right, - come to my senses. My wings are drooping, my halo askew.I have resisted temptation. But, damn, it's hard to be good, especially when I know that if it's hard, it has to be good. STOP ME, SOMEBODY! |
Lambd
Veteran Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 75
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 11:25 am: |
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Let me find out Abm has screwed you---up! Shame on you, C-neek. The only thing hard you're going to get is a bar of soap, and I'm gonna use it to wash your mouth out! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 288
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 01:07 pm: |
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C-Neek has never claimed to be good, Lambd. But she is nice. And so are you.  |
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