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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 723
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 01:28 pm: | 
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Anybody read it?
Whatcha think? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1585
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 11:18 pm: |
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I didn't read it, Chris. Give us a brief summary of what West says about the hallowed subject of democracy. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 725
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
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Cynique:
I'd be glad to. The subtitle of the book is "Winning the Fight Against Imperialsim"
He says it is in trouble. It is under assault in this country and that there are several fundamental problems, "Free market fundamentalism", "agressive militarism" and "escalating authoritarianism"--trends that are imperiling democracy in the country. He talks about Bush, the Patriot Act, the Invasion of Iraq, how the Democrats have wimped out (the political process is subverted by the fact that both parties are tied to the corporate elites).
He says that Nihilism is on the rise in America, particulary, "Evangelical Nihilism, Paternalistic Nihilism, and Sentimental Nihilism".
He examines a Deep Democratic strain in America, which he traces from Ralph Waldo Emerson and Herman Mehlville to James Baldwin and Toni Morrison. He says our democracy might benefit if we were more "jazz inflected" and "blues saturated"
Then he states how Judaism and Islam might be reformed by creating New Jewish and Islamic Democratic Identities--mostly by heeding their historical prophetic and mystical leanings and voices.
Then he sees a Crisis in Christianity as a conflict between "Constantinian" and "Prophetic Christians>
He writes about "The Necessary Engagement with Youth Culture" and explains what led to his battle with Chancellor Summers and his decision to leave Harvard, and ends by exhorting us to put on "Our Democratic Armor".
All in all I found it, like his speeches, intellectually stimualating and would recommend it. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1590
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 12:44 pm: |
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I can certainly relate to everything West says. And the idea that our soldiers are fighting for our freedom is particularly frustrating. They are fighting to justify the skewered vision and sinister motives of a dangerous neo-fascistic regime who have hi-jacked American democracy and put the country on a collision course with internal strife. It's really scary that a man as incompetent and as ignorant as George Bush holds the position of the most powerful man in the world. But by re-electing him, the gullible paranoid American populace will get what they deserve, especially those who identify with his mindset - that God is on America's side and that we are the good, clear-eyed guys who have to defeat those bad guys by scoring the winning touchdown, while the band plays on, and the flag waves in the breeze. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 727
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 12:45 pm: |
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Cynique:
You sound like you are itching to get back out there and do some columns! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1593
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 01:24 pm: |
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I write a lot of letters to the editors of Chicago's 2 major newspapapers, Chris, and quite a few of them get printed. That's the closest I want to get to writing a column. I couldn't take the pressure of having to produce a by-line on a daily basis. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 728
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 02:17 pm: |
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Cynique:
I can see you now, hanging that wussy Clarence Page out to dry.
The most active columnists I know of do two to three a week. And many do just one a week.
And if you didn't want to do that, you could maybe do a Blog on the Internet--google up a few and take a peek.
Is this the beginning of a new career for Cynqiue? |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 159
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 02:49 pm: |
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Chris,
Thanks for the summary-
Do you know of any Cornel West dvd's or cd's of his speeches?
Cynique-
It is always a joy to hear your mind at work.
Bleek- |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1774
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 04:14 pm: |
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Chris,
Thanks for the summary. I may pick up West's book up within a week.
Bleekindigo,
Aw heck, chile! What you "hear" coming from Cynique is mostly gas! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 730
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
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Bleek:
Don't know any. I have just heard him live. |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 160
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 04:45 pm: |
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ABM:
Ha!Ha!
Gas too, has a way of..."moving" people.
Bleek-
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1595
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 05:04 pm: |
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Hey Bleek, thanks for having my back, babe. The Board can always count on you to keep Abm in check. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 01:07 am: |
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Bleek,
Haha! Indeed.
But here's hoping that some of them take sometime to be "moving" their bowels while siting on a toilet. |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 162
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 01:10 pm: |
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This is a little off the topic of Cornel West's book, but I didn't want to start an entirely new thread for a quick question.
What is the difference between America buying oil on the "open market" and America buying oil via "fixed contracts". I was reading an article that commented on that and I didn't quite understand what it meant.
Bleek |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 163
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 01:18 pm: |
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Okay, I had a few questions actually. I'm not too well read in such issues. Trying to be. Here is another:
I also read that in 1950 the U.S. imported only .1 of it's oil. Today, the U.S. imports 66% of it's oil. What causes a country to become more depended on other nations for oil?
Bleek- |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1605
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 01:19 pm: |
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Um, Chris, I'll let you answer this one. LOL |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1806
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 01:46 pm: |
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Bleekindigo,
ANSWER TO QUESTION 1:
Fixed Oil Contract purchasing - the terms between buyer/producer are fixed over a set period of time. A more stable/reliable method of buying oil. The problem is if the price of available oil drops considerably, you are locked in on fixed pricing while your competitors who are playing open markets can get lower costing fuel thus allowing them to get market advantage because they can charge the customer less.
Open Market Oil purchasing - company acquires options to buy oil at ever-varying rates, which change constant (e.g., how pissed off Saudi Arabia is at the US at any point in time). Trading is usually handled via intermediaries between the buyer and producer (kinda like how the stock market works). Since prices change all the time, the buyer can sometimes get a great deal, other times he may get his @$$ handed to'em.
I imagine most of the major oil distributors and retailers mix both fix and open market oil to acquire their oil stock, with the cost of one part of their stock sort of hedging the other.
ANSWER(s) TO QUESTION 2:
@ Many more vehicles than before
@ No significant efforts on the part of carmakers to increase fuel economy (And why would they? They are in an omnipotent cabal with the oil companies.)
@ We drive much more than we did before (e.g., we are less community-oriented)
@ US-owned sources of oil dried up decades ago...
@ ...along with political/environmentalist antipathy for more oil drilling in the US |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 164
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 02:21 pm: |
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Thank you Abm. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 03:30 pm: |
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Bleekindigo,
Happy to Help! |
Moonsigns
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 407
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 09:24 pm: |
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All,
I was just watching Cornel West on t.v. earlier this evening. It was a program that was taped at Howard awhile back. I had seen it before, however, I always enjoy listening to him share his opinion. He is so very intelligent and respectable.
Chris,
You mentioned how Cornel wrote about how the political process is subverted because both parties are tied to corporate elites. This is so true and I feel that this is what disheartens me the most about voting. His view on the many rising faces of nihilism in America is so on point as well. Your sharing has encouraged me to make this a "must read", thanks!
Bleek,
Good question regarding oil.
Abm,
Thanks for answering it.
|
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 734
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:22 am: |
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A lot of people have problems with him. They think his down and with the people stance is a fake. They find his mix of philosphies puzzling. They thought his making a rap album was crass and ridiculous.
They have found his scholarship thin especially lately. One thousand miles wide and an inch thick, somebody said of his philosophy and thought. A lot of people think he is an egomaniacal, headline grabbing hype.
For myself I was disappointed with RACE MATTERS until I researched him and read the rest of his work. I think though it, like DEMOCRACY MATTERS is short on practical solutions I think it is what one could expect of a trained academic philosopher.
West is interesting. He makes you think. That is his value and, as a philosopher, his true goal. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1612
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:28 am: |
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It's great to read something written by Abm that is informative and accurate rather than distorted and debasing. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
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ABM,
If US oil has dried up years ago, why all of the talk about "oil rich" Alaska and the building of the Alaskan pipeline? What happened to that? And aren't there still oilwells in Alabama? I heard that the hurricanes were threatening to destroy the oilwells there. Your answers will either clarify my thinking that the reasons for less oil production in America have more to do with political ramifications than it has to do with dry oilwells,
Or it will give me something new to ponder. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 12:24 pm: |
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West is certainly someone who gets by on his reputation, and the dazzling verbal skills which enable him to mezmerize his listeners are sometimes more style than substance. It's almost like he an intellectual rapper. But, like Chris implies, he's provocative and stimulating. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 01:22 pm: |
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A_womon,
You are referring to a region of Alaska that is titled ANWAR.
It is reputed to have beneath its surface a vast oil reserve. But unfortunately for oil lovers, it also contain one the most remarkably diverse ecosystems on the entire planet, with much of its flora/fauna still virtually untouched by mankind.
Therefore, environmentalist, conservationalist and sympathetic politicians have waged an ardent effort to ensure ANWAR remains unblemished by the onerous demands of building/utilizing petroleum rigs and pipelines.
Also, there seems much dispute over how much petroleum ANWAR would generate. So then, reasonable people in power face the choice of possibly destroying one of the nation’s, the entire hemisphere’s, few untarnished regions when there’s questionable support that doing so will yield a supply of oil that would make the effort/cost/damage worthwhile.
And if Congress approved any drilling of ANWAR, the cost/logistics required to drill yet maintain at least some ecological standards would likely make oil exploration considerably more expensive and time-consuming than it would be in other parts of the world, which might discourage some oil companies from fully committing to projects there.
Even if drilling in ANWAR were approved/initiated today, it would probably be another 10 years before you or I can pump any gas from there into our cars and SUV’s.
So ANWAR is not a cure for our oil issues and/or the terrorism issues that our lustful pursuit of oil has allegedly engendered.
Yes. There still is oil in other parts of Alaska, Alabama, Texas and Louisiana. And if this were 1950, it might be enough. But it is simply not enough to satisfy our current oil-rich standard of living.
Chris,
I think that all of what you have alluded to about West may be true...depending on one’s perspective.
His delivery is often a confusing confluence of popular/arcane social/cultural commentary. Certainly he lack the ‘required’ background of an street activist or a rapper.
And West’s work has been chiled as being too shallow. (Conservatives’ favorite Black intellectual, author and Stanford professor McWhorters has been one of West’s most vocal critics.)
His polemics may to some degree have a point. I’m sure the time West spends working the popular movie/TV/seminar circuits detracts from his research/writing.
I imagine, however, it is also largely haterade being poured over West’s relative fame and cultural currency. Or some of his boobirds seek to leverage their criticism of West to broaden their own popularity.
And I guess another way to view him is to ask why he would bother to do things that might/have caused him embarrassment unless his intentions were to some degree sincere. Because he could have quite comfortably continued to be highly paid chair of lofty Ivy League departments and draft obscure (and seldom read) books/articles.
Thus, I admire what West has attempted to do, if not what has resulted from it.
Cynique,
Alas, I am often like a mirror: Only as "informative" or "debasing" as the material I am given to work with. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1617
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
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But your mirror is too often like those found in a fun house, Abm. LOL |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 01:50 pm: |
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Cynique,
HAHA! Indeed and touché. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 735
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 03:05 pm: |
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Abm:
He does have some street credibilty from his youth and activist work--there is only so much street you can promote with degrees from Ivy League schools and a three piece suit.
I think Cornel is Cornel--I think he genuinely would like to communicate with and appeal to the masses but his years of study and intellectual excercise has put him in a situation where this is difficult--while reading Democracy Matters he had me rolling my eyes when he discussed the development of democracy in Greece or discoursed at length on Melville and Emerson's work--but what would else would a University Professor do?
He writes most readily to graduate students, faculty members and intellectuals. He is going to have to depend on middle men to carry his message to the people--a dilemma that most philosophers faced.
I have met him by the way and he is totally unassuming and down to earth when you talk to him one on one--it was only a moment and I got the impression that he would have gotten antsy if we had discussed mundane matters too long--that if we had got together for a drink it would not be long before he would have been discoursing on the Dyonisian revels or the merits of different Ethiopian beverages or libation ceremonies among 19th century African Americans--but he gets it honest.
All:
Has anybody heard his rap CD? Whatcha think? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1820
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 03:49 pm: |
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Chris,
Yeah. Cornel's the genuine article. And I like that about him.
Because even though he's got to know he's confusing the h*ll out of most of us, he doesn't condescend. He seem to presume you'll get at least some of what he's saying and can perhaps use that as a basis point to explore, which, if you think about it, is one of the greatest gifts that someone of his talents can share.
In that respect he reminds me of Toni Morrison.
I don't think young foks expect him to be as 'down' as, say, Judacris. They just appreciate the fact that someone who has ascended to the heights of the "White man" world still is thinking, feeling and doing something for'em.
I heard part of one of his rap songs. It sounded like a 3-piece suit wearing middle-age guy with a 200 IQ trying to rap. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1622
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 04:21 pm: |
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Isn't Cornel an ordained minister? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 737
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 10:39 am: |
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Cynique:
I don't know. I know he attended Yale Divinity School, taught at Union Theological Seminary and has been a professor of religion.
I guess the thing that exasperates me so about him is that after reading him you gotta go read 10 other books (and 10 other HEAVY) books to find out whether you agree or disagree with him or not.
But he's good for you. Can you name any other prominent philosopher today? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1633
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:29 am: |
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Well, the University of Chicago abounds with philosophers but I'm not that familiar with what they're philosophizing about, mostly about the role of ethics in today's society and the quality of life vs the quantity of it. (Not surprising, I've concocted my own personal philosophy to live by. What's good to you, is good for you. LOL Jussst kidding.) |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 165
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:40 am: |
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Chrishayden,
Would John Mcwhorter and Angela Davis be considered philosophers?
I know what the word means, but somehow to me, there is a certain philosophy in most black writers like Morrison and Baldwin and Locke (the black one) and Hughes and W.E.B and Douglass...
Does philosophy transcend genre's? Or must it follow a certain criteria?
Bleek |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1634
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 12:01 pm: |
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Angela is a Communist. I think she might be more of an political idealogue than a philosopher. But then I guess all of these "isms" can overlap and be hyphenated. Philosophy is probably the most fluid and organic of the Humanities. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 738
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 01:43 pm: |
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Bleek:
I suppose anybody could be considered a philosopher if they come up with a philosophy--
But I suppose one would look for one who has studied philosophy and philosophic thought and method, written books on the subject or spoken extensively about it, or who works as a teacher or writer of philosophy or philosophic works.
Is one primarily engaged in the study, propogation, teaching or writing of philosophy, would be the question.
I don't know enough about McWhorter to be able to say. I know Angela Davis has been and is an academic, though I don't know what she teaches or taught. I know she is a Marxist and Marxism is considered a philosophy. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1835
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 10:12 am: |
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Cynique,
One of the widely know philosophies to spring forth from the fabled University of Chicago is "Supply Side Ecocomics" (aka "Trickle-down Economics"). Initiated by Ronald Reagan and still buoyed by GOP'ers, SSE asserts that the more advantage conferred to the business owner/producer (i.e., the wealthy), the better off we all will be via the fruit that 'trickles down' to the rest of us.
And this SSE philosophy manifests in tax cuts, deregulation, free trade, anti-union and outsourcing policies. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1661
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Maybe we need to differentiate between philosopy and theory. I think supply side economics was the brainchild of Milton Friedman the highly-vaunted professor of Economics. So blame that on the School of Business, not the Philosophy Department. BTW, William Julius Wilson the distinguished black Sociolgist wrote his definitive book "When Work Disappears" while he was at the University of Chicago. |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 177
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:15 pm: |
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Yes!! Cynique!!!
That is exactly what I was trying to differentiate for myself. The difference between philosophy and theory. I think that I've always thought that they were one and the same.
Bleek- |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 178
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:17 pm: |
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AND-- YOU GUYS ARE SO DARNED KNOWLEDGEABLE!!! TALKIN' ALL THIS "Supply Side Economics" n' stuff!! I am enjoying it, because I have never heard of it before.
Bleek- |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1840
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
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Cynique,
I know Nobel Prize Winner Friedman and UC's economic department 'invented' "Supply-Side Economics" (SSE). But that does not disqualify it as being a philosophy.
Because a philosophy is not limited to the pursuit/study of arcane sociological theories proffered by Plato, Kant and Locke. Rather, a philosophy is any organized gathering and interpretation of phenomena that are presumed to yield certain conclusions. That is why a Ph.d or Doctor of Philosophy is offered in Accounting as it is in Sociology, History or Physics.
But I am not sure if SSE is more a theory or philosophy, or, frankly, if there is much difference at all between the 2.
Bleekindigo,
Darling, you'd better acquaint yourself with SSE. Because that sure-as-tootin' is the game Bush and his cronies are playing against the rest of us. |
Bleekindigo
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 180
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 01:37 pm: |
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I plan to Abm.
And Abm, you said:
SSE asserts that the more advantage conferred to the business owner/producer (i.e., the wealthy), the better off we all will be via the fruit that 'trickles down' to the rest of us.
At core, hasn't that always been the case though? What makes it a novel idea in comparison to how this country has always been run?
Bleek- |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1842
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 02:27 pm: |
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Bleekindigo,
That has largely being the case. There has and will likely always be some preference to the wealthy. But the degree to which that has existed had differed considerably.
During much of the mid - late 20th Century, there was more a concern about the "common man". That manifested in the advent of a progressive tax code (rich pay more than poor), the right to organize/unionize, Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Affirmative Action, environmental laws, etc.
But the "Reagan Revolution" has largely returned more favor to the wealthy. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1666
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 08:25 pm: |
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Well, Abm, philosophy is like democracy. When you capitalize their first letters they become more specific in their definitions. When you take a course in Philosophy you are not going to study economic theories. We live in a Democracy but there is no democracy in a prison. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1053
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 08:39 pm: |
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ABM,
Isn't philosophy the study and search for the "meaning or purpose of life"
And isn't theory the basic premise that one can make a statement about what they think will be the outcome of a heretofore unproven process and then how that process plays out will determine whether or not the process moves from theory to fact. Or if the process remains unproved, but moves to possibly true but unfactually sound, it remains a theory? like for example, the BIG BANG theory, which though much evidence has been garnered to attempt to prove this theory, there is much evidence to debunk it as well, thus it remains a theory? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 08:56 pm: |
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Per http://merriam-webster.com/
PHILOSOPHY:
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology <a > (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : PHYSICAL SCIENCE (2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the> <philosophy>
4 a : the most general beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher
THEORY:
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory>
synonym see HYPOTHESIS |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1055
Registered: 05-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 09:10 pm: |
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Ok so my examples are partly correct albeit not all inclusive of all definitions. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 04-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 11:55 am: |
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A_womon,
Yeah. As you can see, one word can have widely divergent connotations. And I attribute a many of the problems people have communicating with our often using the same words yet intending different meanings. |
Steve_s
Regular Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 50
Registered: 04-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 09:13 pm: |
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I just finished it. I agree with most of his historical and political analysis and I'm most impressed with his depth of understanding of Judaism and Islam (although, to be honest, most that goes over my head). But it's not surprising because, after all, he is a professor of religion. I only wish we had an intellectual in the White House who could tap into some of this kind of brainpower to help solve the Israeli/Palestinian crisis. I would recommend the book for those reasons, but I have to say that I often do not agree with his views about literature and music. That's surprising to me. (On his recommendation I once read The Cherry Orchard by Anton Chekhov, The Iceman Cometh by Eugene O'Neill, and Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett)
I agree with him that democracy is fundamentally about dialogue (which he calls Socratic dialogue), self-reflection and self-criticism, and that it's opposed to dogma in all forms. So I have to say that instead of just expressing his own ideas on a given subject, it often sounds like he's trying to filter his thoughts through someone else's theories and it's not convincing. For instance, his point about the blues aesthetic is from Ralph Ellison, the connection he tries to make between jazz and democracy is Albert Murray's thing, his Marxist analysis of Moby-Dick is probably taken from the Jamaican scholar C.L.R. James, and the idea of the "tragicomic" is from ancient Greece.
Instead of saying that John Coltrane is a hero of democracy (what does it mean, really?), why doesn't he just say what Coltrane means to him personally? I have not read a biography of John Coltrane but I think that his spiritual awakening in 1957 (effected through the help of his Muslim wife, Naima) might represent for Dr. West the transformative power of religion. Then, according to the liner notes to A Love Supreme, he had a relapse, followed by another religious renewal, at which time he probably got a sense of his own mortality (he died very young in 1967, before the age of 40) and along the way, his music became iconic in the civil rights struggle. He was one of the first jazz musicians to explore African musical forms in his music, etc.
It's obvious that Dr. West feels deeply the art of Toni Morrison, James Baldwin, and the hip-hop performers who he names individually, classifies according to schools, etc., but he seems over-invested in the idea of hip-hop as "radical truth-telling" about the suffering of the people on the bottom rungs of society, to the point of comparing the first stage of hip-hop to prophetic Christianity and calling the next phase "Constantinian hip-hop" (Constantine was the Roman emperor who converted to Christianity, when, before going into battle, he had a vision of a burning cross in the sky). I think it trivializes his astute point about the Christian fundamentalists in this country. The idea of an imperialistic hip-hop (I'm not making this up) means something to him and may mean something to others, but I don't like it because it sounds like some more Marxist dogma about an art that serves the class struggle, which, for me, is not the defining function of art. And I think that historically, this literature has been susceptible to too many political and social constraints and obstructions, from within and without. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1922
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 04:58 pm: |
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Man, Steve, that was deep! Your summation was so good I don't feel like I need to read the book. I trust your interpretations because you have such a good grasp of ideas. Happy New Year to you. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 09:36 pm: |
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I always like his books and I think everyone should read this one because it's interesting and there's really a lot in it to talk about. But anyway, thanks and Happy New Year to you too Cynique!
As I said, I agree with many of his opinions, have learned new things from other of his opinions, but I just have some thoughts on what I disagree with. I think he has a very romanticized view of both jazz musicians and those he calls the great literary bluesmen like Emerson, Melville, and Tennessee Williams. It sometimes seems almost as hard to believe as the kind of blind patriotism he criticizes in the book.
For example, he lists some jazz and blues greats from Louis Armstrong and Bessie Smith to John Coltrane and Sarah Vaughan and then says that "like Melville, they engage in deep-sea diving beneath the apparent American sunshine. Unlike Melville, they emerge with a strong blood-soaked hope and a seductive tear-stained smile."
That statement may qualify as a compound allusion because in chapter 13 of Moby-Dick, when Queequeg dives underwater to rescue the "bumpkin" who has been taunting him, his heroic act disproves the bumpkin's and the ferry skipper's racial prejudices about him being a "devil." It might also be compared to John Edgar Wideman's characters, who, during the yellow fever epidemic in racist 18th century Philadelphia, tended to the white sick and dying. Except that Richard Allen was a Christian whereas Queequeg, who observes Ramadan, believes that he'll never be able to return to Polynsesia to claim his rightful throne because he's been contaminated by his contact with Christians!
My other observation is that the metaphor of the jazz man as a deep-sea diver is almost certainly a quote from the first sentence of an Ann Douglas piece: "If the blues were the roots of America's modern religious sensibility, jazz was its oxygen; if the blues were buried treasure under the ocean's floor, jazz was the deep-sea diver bursting back up into the air." The only reason I know this is because there's a finite body of literature associated with what's become known as the "Lincoln Center democratic jazz aesthetic," and for the past few years, I've been reading some of it because I find it interesting. Cornel West is working off of this popular concept of jazz as democracy which was presented in the Ken Burns PBS Jazz series, but I think there are some significant differences in Cornel West's approach, which I won't get into now.
It's possible that this kind of "quoting" approximates a technique used by jazz musicians. I think that Cornel West uses it well, especially if you compare it to, say, the way that Richard Powers, in his novel The Time of Our Singing, alludes to James Baldwin's short story, Sonny's Blues, with the image of a ship heading out to sea as a metaphor for jazz improvisation. Powers describes two pianists improvising a four-handed piano composition: "Will nudged me on, moving me out of sight of shoreline, into the coldest currents. His modulations held back, waiting for me to take over. He handed me the rudder. Like that novice pilot who has just shot through the most dangerous shoals and now faces only openness in all directions, I turned from exhilaration into panic. I hung there, treading water, until Will took over again." I think that's a quote of James Baldwin's description of the bass player and pianist in his own short story: "As I began to watch Creole, I realized that it was Creole who held them all back. He had them on a short rein. Up there, keeping the beat with his whole body, wailing on the fiddle, with his eyes half closed, he was listening to everything, but he was listening to Sonny. He wanted Sonny to leave the shoreline and strike out for the deep water. He was Sonny's witness that deep water and drowning were not the same thing -- he had been there, and he knew. And he wanted Sonny to know. He was waiting for Sonny to do the things on the keys which would let Creole know that Sonny was in the water." Powers even uses Baldwin's interpretation that the novice musician is "held back" by the more experienced improviser.
I think that the Cornel West example may be more complex than what Powers does, which is to paraphrase the idea of Baldwin's, but I think that both might be considered jazz-like. However, I do question many of Cornel West's interpretations of Moby-Dick, a book I've read exactly once and don't claim to understand. When Ishmael wanders the streets of New Bedford he passes a black church where the sermon is "the blackness of darkness." Dr. West says that Ralph Ellison repeats this idea in the prologue to Invisible Man in the sermon about "the blackness of blackness." Then he adds that: "both Ishmael and the invisible man are exemplary seekers of democratic individuality, community, and society through the black brook of fire in America."
The "brook of fire" is an allusion to a German philosopher named Ludwig Feuerbach (ironically, I think I learned this in a book by Cornel West!). The name Feuerbach translates literally to "brook of fire." I don't know who he was except that he's supposedly a precursor to and an influence on Karl Marx, so the statement that "both Ishmael and the invisible man are exemplary seekers of democratic individuality, community, and society through the black brook of fire in America" may be true in the case of the invisible man, who, in the novel, is a member of the Brotherhood, a kind of Communist Party equivalent, but it's not possible that Ishmael is a black Marxist (although it seems consistent with Dr. West's interpretation of Moby-Dick).
"The blackness of darkness" is usually explained as a sermon about the unknowability of evil, which might be related to the later idea about the incomprehensibility of the whale's whiteness. It also contrasts with Father Mapple's sermon which is based on the Book of Jonah (James Baldwin biographer David Leeming claims that the sermon in Go Tell It on the Mountain is based on Father Mapple's sermon). IMO, Ralph Ellison parodies "the blackness of darkness" sermon when the Invisble Man explains his theory that history moves not like an arrow, but a boomerang, and adds that he's been boomeranged so much that he can now see "the darkness of lightness." That's a joke and probably a racial joke. Invisible Man contains other jokes about darkness and lightness as in the scene in which the Invisible Man goes to see a movie about cavalry fighting the Indians. He makes a remark something like "Although no one on the screen looked like me, I left the darkened theater feeling a little lighter." "The blackness of blackness" is the text of a sermon the Invisible Man hallucinates after he smokes marijuana while listening to Louis Armstrong. He plumbs the cultural depths of the music, layer by layer and hears the sermon. "The blackness of blackness" is described by Henry Louis Gates (in at least two of his books that I'm aware of) as a kind of signifying on the idea of a black essence, told in an antiphonal back-and-forth manner between preacher and congregation. He compares it to a Nikki Giovanni poetry reading on the Yale campus during the Black Power era. Dr. West's explanation of Ahab's encounter at the black church is quite different: "This black inferno in which the struggle with nihilism is surmounted will mirror his [Ahab's] subsequent journey in which the imperial Ahab's wrestling with nihilism leads to devastation. Ellison's Invisible Man one hundred years later repeats this scene with the preacher speaking on "the blackness of blackness" -- another initiation into imperial America through the lens of race."
I'm really surprised that he reads Moby-Dick as an allegory about imperialism. According to Stanley Crouch, Ralph Ellison supposedly said that one of the lessons of Moby-Dick is that "greatness doesn't have to have a moral direction," by which I assume he meant Ahab, but also might have been referring to anyone from John Brown, D.W. Griffith, Nat Turner, Richard Wagner, or even John Coltrane, if, as many people believe, Ahab is a tragic hero who represents some uniquely American quality described as monomania, obsessivenes, or something like that.
I know very little about Melville -- that he was an abolitionist and that he had a serious disagreement with his father-in-law, a Massachusetts judge, over the fugitive slave law. The novel was first published in 1851, a decade before the beginning of the Civil War. As we know, Edward P. Jones's novel, "The Known World," ends with Calvin's letter from a black Washington, D.C. hotel, dated April 12, 1861, the date the first shots were fired on Fort Sumter, beginning the Civil War.
I just think he's overestimating the extent of Melville's understanding of, or representation of, some issues in the novel, particularly having to do with slavery and imperialism. Does anyone know what I mean? |
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