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Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 12:35 am: | 
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How do you guys feel about most film adaptations of favorite books? Any you would like to see? Most of the time they don't work for me even though I know that there's just no way for the film to be the same. I try and keep in open mind going in, but since books are so personal and intimate I feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment. Example: Loved Midnight in the Garden of Good & Evil but that movie was a mess. Then I hated the book "Bridges of Madison County" but loved the film. The latter seems to be a rare feeling though.
All that to say, I saw Lord of the Rings this weekend and I was so impressed I plan to see it again. It's raining here so I also saw "Chicago" (very, very good) and "Gangs of New York" (one hour too long but Daniel Day Lewis just owned his part).
What about you guys? What's the book to film experience been like for you? Anything you want to see, or hope they never ever make?
Bayou Lights
P.S. Just heard that Fox Searchlight (Antwon Fisher), the artsy division of 20th Century Fox is working with Blair Underwood on the Tananarive Due books "Living Blood" and "Soul to Keep". Word is that Underwood has done an impressive job developing the project.
Hope everyone's safe and warm this weekend. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 09:16 am: |
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Hello Bayou Lights
It's simply amazing that you bring up topics that have been major topics of discussion on this board in the past. I don't know if you knew this but Thumper is not only a book reviewer he's also a pretty decent movie reviewer . Oh yeah, the kid knows his movies. Ann and Thump have had some pretty good debates concerning movies, and Thump, to our surprise, forced us to throw out the white flag on a few occassions.
Anyway:
In all movies, in my opinion, the main variables to a movies success are the directors and actors. I could go on and on about this(and I have *smile") but I'm going to keep this one short. A couple of movies that come to mind to illustrate that point are "The Devil In A Blue Dress" and Amistad. What did you think of these movies?
I think " A Lesson Before Dying" was a great book and the movie didn't let the book down. Here's a couple: "Stella's Groove", "Outnumbered Outgunned"....any comments..... anyone?
Claxton, Bayou, Chris, Thump
What did you think of the movie "The Reign Of Fire? I thought is was a magnificant movie. Off the top of my head, I think is was the best movie I've seen in years. Now this kind of movie is definitely not for all but we can get into all types of movies and this one did it for us.
I'll tell you what "Minority Report" was also well worth the money. It's not a "Matrix" but it's right up there......in our opinion of course.
Carey |
Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 07:03 pm: |
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Hi Carey,
Thanks for your sweet note.
I thought "How Stella Got Her Groove Back"--as a book--was hugely boring and terribly disappointing. But in the hands of Angela Bassett and Whoopi, it became a true gem (even thought it's escapist fluff and kinda stupid, their performances make it enjoyable and worth watching). I truly despised the film "Waiting to Exhale", because the movie betrayed the vulnerability and depth of the women as they were portrayed in the book (which wasn't exactly a great book, but it had timing, I'll say).
I myself always wanted to be a filmmaker, but couldn't afford schooling and got in only on the lowest rungs--starlet at best...so I ended up a literary writer instead of an actress/director/producer/screenwriter. One thing that editors appreciate about my work..is that it's very "cinematic". Although I do write details, I tend to shorten and condense everything...because when I write stories, I am seeing a movie in my head and I'm writing it more like a script mixed with a poem. ONE OF MY BIGGEST FEARS, however...is to see one of works (for instance the novel I'm re-writing now) taken and made into a movie.
My fears would include things like--are they going to let real Black women play the women or are they going to cast exotic imitation Black women in the roles (it would kill me to see someone like Rosario Dawson or Beyonce or Ashanti or even my beloved Whitney Houston cast as my lead character--who is a thoughtful 1960's Black American soul singer from the South). I also worry that the love scenes might not be done "Nile River style" (as I always write love scenes--I think of love as a mouthful of honey and red pepper, you know)...I worry that the very crucial songs I wrote for the book would be dropped altogether. Hollywood is also notorious for disrespecting and marginalizing Black folks. I would be sad to the flavor of my southerners treated like "nostalgia". Remember when they put Diana Ross (whom I adore) in THE WIZ? I HATED THAT MOVIE!! She ruined it! It should have been Stephanie and DOROTHY should have been a little girl--not a grown woman! So you see, Movie Executives (who are usually White accountants who read Playboy and are bored by art, but not by dollars)..they can destroy and denigrate even the best material.
Anyway, I loved "THE COLOR PURPLE" and I was so moved and deeply in tune with "BELOVED" that I have now watched it a total of 12 times. I've seen Color Purple about 20! "Gone With the Wind" (which I never could read past the first 80 pages) was, I think, easier to watch for me--but I still felt like kicking somebody's ass after it was over. Many lesbian sisters of mines hated The Color Purple because Spielberg totally removed Celie's "lesbian years" from the film--reducing it to a kiss. But I never did agree that the book was really about lesbianism...as much as it was about "inner-love" and the ways in which desperate people, denied their identity and love of self, manage to insist on "all the freedoms" and manage to find that love inside and out...SOMEHOW. It's very inspirational for any woman...and ofcourse...as an African woman, I totally recognized the entire MALE abusing the females, dominating and marginalizing the women thing. In America, African Americans have such "false romantic notions" about the relationships between men and women in Africa. Just like here--Oppression of our racial beauty causes us to mistreat one another--with the men having the most vehicles for mistreatment and the most freedom for abandonment and abuse. I felt while watching THE COLOR PURPLE..that I was watching a very, very SUDANESE movie. The film and the book are totally different, but it remains one of my all-time favorite films...and books.
I pray they don't try to film "THE BLUEST EYE". Please let them leave that one alone.
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Claxton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 09:14 pm: |
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The last movie adaptation that I saw was "The Sum of All Fears", starring Ben Affleck and Morgan Freeman. It wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't exactly faithful to the book. Tom Clancy fans like myself know where the holes are, so I won't bore anyone with the details. Suffice it to say, though, the movie wasn't quite as good as the book.
Carey, I haven't seen "Reign of Fire", although I have played "Reign of Fire" on the PlayStation 2. Very tough game, indeed, and probably one that I'll add once I find it in the bargain bin at the local Toys R Us. I would like to see the movie, though, because it looks like a lot of fun. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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Hello Kola
It seems we are in agreement on a few movies but miles apart on others. Lets start with "Beloved"....HATED HATED HATED IT. Thandi Newton spoiled it for me from the jump, the women is a marginal actress at best and that...that... character she was TRYING to play just didn't work. Who told Johnathan Demme he could direct black folk. Okay, the man did Silence Of The Lamb (no black people) and The Philidelphia Story but other than that what makes him this great director? And again, it takes a special person to understand us and then TRY ....TRY... to move us through a role. Now Spielberg is that kind of person, I loved the Color Purple, I LOVED IT! Hold it, let's go back to Demme. Tom Hamks won an Oscar for his role in Philidelphia but it was a black man that carried that movie and should have won the Oscar. Yes yes yes, it was the man Denzel, Denzel Washington. So Demme really had little to do but to tell Denzel to do his thang. But low and behold, Demme's a great director and is given the job Of "Beloved". I have to admit, the book was difficult and therefore he has excuses but the movie was very melodramatic at times, preachy and about 1 hour too long. I don't think I disliked a picture that year as much as I did Beloved.
I didn't mind "The Wiz" at all. I think it was the music that won me over. Diana did a decent job but it's hard to follow behind a role that we have all loved and seen a thousand times.
Okay, The Color Purple: This movie has been kicked around for what it was and what it wasn't about. Every "group" got a chance to kick mud on this masterpiece. I'm not going to go there. The Only thing I know for sure is that I enjoyed the hell out of it. Whoopie did a great job, Danny Glover got down and even our girl OPrah did a fantastic job. Spielburg is a genius, he has his fingers on the soul of man. He knows a thing or two about emotions. He knows talented people and how to direct them. The movie The Color Purple is one of my all time favorites.
Carey
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Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 11:04 pm: |
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Hello Claxton
Thanks for the reply. Ben Affleck is not an actor, he's simply a name. Ann read the book and said Affleck is NOT who she seees as she reads the book. I saw the movie and have not read the book however it did have holes that had nothing to do with the book. I would give it a 4 out of 10. They can't keep changing Jack Ryan's on us. They expect us to go from Harrison Ford to A young Ben Affleck....come on. And that whole nuclear bomb scene was a joke. Yeah the movie had holes and they should have put a bunch of out houses on top of them because the movie was a bunch of .....you know *smile*.
You must give the movie Reign Of fire a look over, it was thrilling.
Carey |
Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 11:38 pm: |
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Hey, Ya'll...
Glad this thread sparked so many responses. I remember it being popular on the old board so I wanted to get some of that life back. I'm trying to think of a good thread for tomorrow.
Anyway, I agreed with quite a few opinions here but didn't see all the movies. I haven't seen Reign of Fire, Beloved or Sum of All Fears so I can't comment, but I always thought it would be damn near impossible to bring such a dense, emotionally intimate book like "Beloved" to screen succcessfully. Because of that same reason it took me a long time to see the Color Purple. I liked it, cried like a baby, even though Spielberg is usually way too corny for my tastes.
Devil in a Blue dress has to be one of my favorite adaptations and besides the performances, I thought Carl Franklin was an excellent choice as director. He showed a real respect and appreciation of the source material. And, whew, di Don Cheadle kill the part of Mouse or what. He was phenomenal.
I understand that movies have to be different, and if you're a writer who can't understand that then you should not sell the film rights. Something always has to be sacrificed and Murphy's Law says it'll be that one thing you loved the most.
Kola, I have not read your book, but it seems exactly the sort of project that would be a shadow of itself on screen. I went to a panel in Santa Monica a couple years ago that featured screenwriters and book authors. Very interesting evening...the book authors had all sold books for film, but each of them stated that they'd refused to sell the ones closest to their hearts. They loved all their books but each had one that was so "personal" they just couldn't bear to let it go. Of course, this made Hollywood throw more and more money at them but they stuck to their guns. Michael Ondatje, "English Patient" was there and he said his experience with Saul Zaentz was unusual in that the filmmakers wanted him, the book author, involved at every point. Usually you get your check and no one wants to talk to you anymore, don't even get invited to the premiere...
"Stella" I have to say was more engaging on film than on the page, "Disappearing Acts" (my fav McMillan) was a decent adaptation but I thought Wesley was miscast. I enjoyed "Lesson Before Dying" - thought it was a thoughtful, series interpretation because that's what it is at the end of the day, an interpretation of another art form.
Bayou |
Steve
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 12:06 am: |
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I haven't read many novels that have been adapted to film but there have been a few instances -- Mambo Kings, White Palace -- where I've liked the book so much that I've intentionally avoided the film. I saw the movie Frida twice last week. I haven't read the book on which it's based -- the biography by Hayden Herrera -- but I'd recently read Thulani Davis's novel Maker of Saints, which although it pays homage to the same biography, is not about Frida's life at all. Now after seeing the movie, I'm even more impressed with the novel because I can see how the issues of jealousy and double standards in Frida and Diego Rivera's relationship are reflected in the relationships in the novel. And the bridge between the top floors of Frida and Diego's separate houses could have been the inspiration for the inner door between the two women artist's apartments in Maker of Saints. The painting, "The Suicide of Dorothy Hale," is relevant to both. Frida was commissioned by Clare Boothe Luce to paint a portrait and instead may have projected some of her own feelings of being killed by Diego in painting a depiction of Dorothy's suicide leap. So i think it's possible that the author's love of Frida Kahlo is the inspiration for Bird's friend Alex -- a woman artist of African and Indian parents from Surinam and Guyana. I thought Oprah and Danny Glover's performances were very powerful and I've loved Oumou Sangare since hearing her at the Milky Way in Amsterdam in '94 or 4. |
Rosary
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 01:25 am: |
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Wow, a discussion on books and movies, two of my passions. There have been many films of books that were excellent. Spike Lee's Malcolm X is certainly worth mentioning. Casting is always critical when undertaking any film project. But when it is an adaption of a beloved piece of literature, the burden is greater. Chris Columbus was cognizant of this when he did both Harry Potter films. Both were very true to the book but the films were enjoyable none the less. In the case of How Stella Got Her Groove Back, it was a much better film than book. The problem with Waiting to Exhale was that its director was male. Had that been done by a woman, it would have been a much different film. Beloved should never have been done as a theaterical release. If it were to be done justly, it needed more time than what most people want to see in one sitting. Toni Morrison's works are not easily adapted. Demme did a decent job but Speilberg handling of The Color Purple was so much better. The performances he was able to get from Whoppie, Danny Glover et. al. were great. |
Chris Hayden
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 10:34 am: |
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The problem is, as I see it, one of space and time. Theoretically, with a book, you have your audience as long as you can hold its attention, and, since it can stop off reading, hold its place, and come back, you can make a book as long as you want--theoretically.
At about a page a minute a good sized novel takes me 5-7 hours--a couple of evenings or right through if I am really captivated. This would not work with a movie--with the book I can stop, eat, walk around, etc, you could not sit that long in a theater for anything.
Additionally there are problems of content--a novel can deal with long periods of inner monologue or stream of consciousness thought, a movie must MOVE--there must be action, even if the only movement is by the camera (Spike Lee was good at this)
Finally, there are problems of audience--most of the moviegoing audience is between 14-21 or thereabouts--they don't wanna think, they wanna see thangs blowed up good.
I must disagree somewhat about BELOVED. I have never been able to read the book. The movie was too long--a consequence of trying to cram everything into it--and it did suffer from the choice of a lead (non) actress--if Oprah had seen fit to let a real actress play Sethe whoever got the part would have been up for an Oscar nomination.
Anyway if I like a book I usually avoid the movie adaptation like the plague--they are going to screw it up--one exception was The Godfather. (The first one, and best one, in my opinion) By jettisoning the subplots involving the doctor and Lucy and Johnny Fontaine and Nino they came up with a much tighter story. |
sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 07:28 pm: |
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I am loving this discussion. Hello all. First of all, I LOVED, AND STILL LOVE, THE COLOR PURPLE, THE BEST, ABSOLUTE BEST, MY FAVORITE OF ALL TIME and I don't miss it whenever it comes on. I also loved Devil in a Blue Dress, and as someone said earlier, Don Cheadle not only killed the part, but he owns it, as well as Denzel. Now, when I read any book dealing with Eazy, these are the two people I see while reading, it is most pleasant! Waiting to Exhale was marginal at best, but I really liked the book. Disappearing Acts, also one of my favorite Terry McMillan books, I loved Sanaa Lathan, but settled for Wesley Snipes, not my pick at all. I'm with you Carey, I thought Harrison Ford made a better Jack Ryan, the best...Ben Affleck, well, still trying to get used to, but I liked the movie. Now, I would love to see Terry McMillan's Mama done, but I heard she's not going to let them, this was one of my favorites. I've been constantly disappointed with Stephen Kings movie adaptation, the books are always so much better, but IT was pretty good, and of course CAREY. I think The DYING GROUND would be a good hip-hop typed movie, if they cast the right players. I didn't read The Godfather books, but the movies were and still are the bomb! I could never read BELOVED, never finished, never watched the movie either. I also loved Spike Lees, Malcolm X, Denzel killed that part, I loved the cinematography and music as well. |
Nichelle Tramble
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 08:50 pm: |
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Hey, Folks...
It's been awhile I've been writing like crazy, missing deadlines, and trying to turn in a book I can be proud of. Thanks, Bayou Lights, for starting this thread. Books and films - two of my passions!
I agree with most of what was said here, and now I have to rent Sum of All Fears. Color Purple is a favorite of mine as well.
Sisgal, I love that you'd like to see "The Dying Ground" brought to the screen. The deal closed for the film rights just last week. It's been a hard, hard fight with lawyers, lawyers, and more lawyers but I feel very good about the people involved. I have lots of confidence in the screenwriter and the producer.
You know, I can't wait to see Grace Edwards series brought to screen with Queen Latifah.
Happy Holidays All...
Nichelle D. Tramble |
Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 08:57 pm: |
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I still say that the film BELOVED is a masterpiece just as the novel is. Please forgive me, too, if this post is too lengthy. I just really wanted to say something about this film.
What I think will happen with BELOVED is the same thing that happened in the case of "Casablanca", the novel "Their Eyes Were Watching GoD", the Sci-fi classic "Star Trek" (which wasn't a hit until it was cancelled and ran in syndication) and the Aretha Franklin song "Ain't No Way"....audiences 30 to 50 years from now may be able to watch "BELOVED" without the specter of feeling like they know OPRAH...and probably (your grandchildren) with a more desperate need to know the...details/the actual faces/the language...the inner lives of what will surely be by then--"mythical Black folk" (who in reality Haunt Us just like film)...far more intensely than Black Americans living today CARE to know.
Most of us today, I've noticed, start watching the movie and we think...."Oh, this is going to be depressing"...."I'm tired of seeing some old Country-talk'n Black folks suffering"....I also see a lot of Blacks who would rather not be responsible for being "caretaker" of certain memories. BELOVED is history and it reminds Blacks...that they very recently were NOT Americans. Today's anthem "Race doesn't matter" goes out the window.
BELOVED has a subject matter that I feel is draining and complicated...it takes too much investment on the part of the viewer...to suspend logic and just let ones self escape into the PURE TRAGIC ANGUISH of a woman who loves so deeply...that she does most loving thing a Mother could possibly do. Don't get mad--but when Sethe killed her children rather than let the Whites own them--I felt she was an African mother straight from Africa rather than a former slave. I fell in love with her and felt that the killing of the children was brave and correct! I felt that we were seeing Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth and Ida B. Wells...which we were. Those women were like Sethe. RARE.
I thought Thandie Newton was brilliant! In fact, I thought Oprah Winfrey was quite poignant as Sethe--the real problem is that she has played TOO MANY of these historical oppressed black women characters. She loses her special quality because she's inherited what people in this country think of as a Mammy-like figure (both as t.v. host and in her Sophia-Sethe-Brewster place roles). But all the actors, and especially KIMBERLY ELISE, were magical.
Ofcourse, I'm partial to the film's West African musical score (done in Mende spiritual hymns)...I often sleep to the film's soundtrack, which is absolutely beautiful. These hymns are the songs that African women sang at the sea shore...after their loved ones were dragged, stolen and sold away across the ocean. In this way..the film allowed FORGOTTEN African women and their grief..to finally be connected, reunited with the lost children who would never remember them again.
It seems, however, that I am the only person who sees this film as a masterpiece. I'm the only person I know who watches it over and over. I AM ALSO STUNNED...that it took audiences (but not critics) 20 years to warm up to "CASABLANCA" or that it took 30 years...for "Their Eyes Were Watching GOD" to sell 15,000 copies (30 years!)...and then the book wasn't really noticed until Alice Walker ranted about it in the early 1970's..unearthing it for mass adulation....but remember, people living in the 1930's could not adore "Their Eyes Were Watching God" as we, who have come through a racial and women's movement can now appreciate the complexities and the hidden meanings...and Zora Neal Hurston, whom we now idolize as a heroine and a genius--she was seen as a "quack" and a minstrel act by many of literary people of her day--she was not ever, during her life, given the credit she deserved as an artist....Aretha Franklin complained on a talk show about how her song "Ain't No Way" never hit #1 when it was originally released as she had expected it would and that nobody really felt moved by it except women...but 20 years after it was recorded, she now reports that her fans consider it be their #3 favorite song by her of all time--right behind "Respect" and "Natural Woman". You see what I mean. Some things have to age and be blessed by the power of time.
Maybe even Kola Boof.
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Cynique
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 02:56 am: |
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Hi Kola,
Congratulations on your recent literary feats!
In regard to the subject being discussed, I see you are, as usual, in rare form. The book "Beloved" really seems to elicit very visceral reactions from those who read it. To me, Toni Morrison is so skilled in the use of language that her books are movies unto themselves. To actually make a movie out of "Beloved" is to rob it of its genius because you cannot portray the "outre." Morrison's books are ones that have to be "experienced", and she could be the original inspiration for the idea of "thinking outside of the box." I do agree that there are some movies and songs that have to wait for their time to come. But cream does rise to the top, doesn't it?
Cynique |
Soul Sister
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 10:15 am: |
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Hey all,
Happy Holidays and all that jazz -- just thought I would chime in - about books to movies -- I believe that Easy Rawlins/Walter Mosley's work and A Lesson Before Dying, Waiting to Exhale -- yes you know I aint a Terry fan - but the flick was like that - tee hee -- Nevertheless, were great book to film things.
In this discussion room we have hashed over how many great books there are out - that the African American film maker should be overwhelmed -- personally I am waiting for Standing at the Stratch Line and What a Woman's Gotta Do.
About the Blair project I have been waiting for that to drop until then - check out -
http://www.blairunderwood.com/mysoultokeep/
He has a trailer - -and the images are spectacular. Oh well Im finished -- check ya all out in the 03 -- peace
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Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
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Hi--Cynique,
Please leave me info on the board about how to buy your book. You're one of my favorite posters here (I also liked that girl Inner City Sister, although she had serious issues).
I would love to finally find out what your name really is and what you think. You're the REAL mysterious one, not me. |
sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
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I agree Soul Sister, Standing at the Scratch Line would also be a magnificent movie, if done well. Our very on saga, Godfather style. I love it!
Congrats, Nichelle on the movie deal, and new book can't wait on either!
Happy Holidays to all.
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Carey
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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Hello Nichelle
Okay, who are the screen writer and the producer? Do you have any input at all? Who would you like to see direct it?
Carey |
Nichelle Tramble
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 01:05 am: |
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Hey, Carey --
The producer is Stephanie Allain, she discovered John Singleton and produced "Boyz in the Hood" and the upcoming "Biker Boyz" with Laurence Fishburn and Larenz Tate. The screenwriter has sold quite a few scripts but none have made it to screen yet.
My input will be very small, and I made my peace with that before I agreed to sell the rights. I was more concerned that the producer/studio owned the rights to the story but not the rights to my characters. That was the main issue with me and it's been worked out after eight long months of negotiating.
I've listened to the ideas of both people, and I saw a early draft of the script and I think they both get it. We'll see what happens...plenty of books get sold or optioned but never actually make it to screen.
Speaking of book to screen...I saw "Adaptation" today. Has anyone seen that?
Peace All,
Nichelle |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 10:18 pm: |
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I havent seen it, what is Adaptation about? |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 11:23 pm: |
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Hello All,
I hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday season. I'm just dropping in for a minute. I had to chime in on this thread though. Movies and books, two of my all-time favorite things.
1.) Nichelle: CONGRATULATIONS!! It's good to hear good things happening for my favorite people. I, too, am looking forward to your new book.
2.) Kola: We are so in sync! I thought Beloved was an excellent movie, a fine adaptation of the book. I'm not usually a fan of Oprah's adaptation of books that I love, I'm thinking of the hatchet job she and her crew did on Dorothy West's The Wedding. I shudder to think what she has in mind for Their Eyes Were Watching God. I wish she would just leave it alone! My greatest fear is that Oprah and company would be too busy trying to interject 21st century political correctness into the story instead of simply remaining faithful to Hurston's story, as Hurston wrote it. Time is very important. I tried to relay those same sentiment to Brian earlier. I can't believe that people didn't get Aretha's Ain't No Way!! Why that's one of Aretha's best performance ever put on wax, the best being her rendition of Dr. Feelgood on her Live At Fillmore West album!! And with those high notes Cissy Houston threw out in the background...Ain't No Way is off the chain.
The Color Purple was a magnificent movie. It was robbed of Oscars left and right!! But here again, time is the great bull--- eliminator because everyone can't remember who beat The Color Purple in The Best Picture category or who won The Best Actress Oscar over Whoopi Goldberg. Carey, care to guess? *eyebrow raised* I'll give you a hint, these two movies are so freaking popular that neither one has made it to the DVD format.
Carey: I have the Reign of Fire on DVD and it is excellent! I had that bad boy cranked up, threw on my DTS sound and was swept away! Minority Report was a good movie too, and I usually don't go for any Tom Cruise movie. I would love to see Standing at the Scratch Line as a movie. Another one I would like to see is the book I'm reading now by John Ridley titled The Drift. I wonder if anyone is working on doing films on the life of Bessie Smith and Zora Neale Hurston. Now, those would be wonderful IF they were done right.
I'm about to go back and enjoy the rest of my vacation. I wish everyone a safe and Happy New Year!!! See ya in 2003! *big smile* |
Kola Boof
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 12:38 am: |
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Hi Thumper!
I'm not supposed to be posting for a good while (because I'm doing a rewrite under a deadline)--but I couldn't resist your question to Carey.
"Out of Africa" was Best Pic of 1985 (A film I shall eternally loathe--if not only for the racist portrayal of Iman's Somali "oromo" character, whose vagina in real life would have been circumsized and sewn up (as my mother was an Oromo virgin) to "prevent" a White Hunter taking her as a lover. The Oromo Chiefs would never allow such a situation!! In real life, this "created" African woman who spreads disease to Meryl Streep's husband---NEVER existed. The director, Sidney Pollack, admitted that he "made her up" after many Somalis questioned this bit of racism.
BEST ACTRESS--Geraldine Page in "Trip to Bountiful" (A wonderful, totally perfect film IMO--I still watch it). BUT...Whoopi Goldberg was hands down the BEST ACTRESS. They cheated her. Sorry Geraldine.
THUMPER...you are dead on about "The Wedding". They ruined it. I ALSO pray that "Their Eyes Were Watching God" doesn't get made by Oprah. It's so hard to see such beloved works like these trashed, but then again, filmmaking is so unpredictable. Toomer's CANE and EYES WATCHING GOD are so dear and important to me (just for the pure integrity of poetry and syncopation--heights I shall never reach--and check out Elechadi's "The Concubine"-it's a masterpiece, the African CANE). I feel I'd rather not see them touched in any way. That includes Morrison's BLUEST EYE.
I am so glad that somebody besides me appreciates BELOVED, however. I think it's a masterpiece! I think our grandchildren will see it--and GET IT, because they'll be ready to watch it. People of today just weren't feeling like "going there".
And yes. I am a TOTAL Aretha Franklin zealot! I love Dr. Feelgood!!!! People can't believe I'm only in my 30's..because if you drop by the house, you're liable to hear me playing Aretha Franklin, Sarah Vaughn, Bessie Smith..and DIANA ROSS (whose early voice just astonishes me! She had so much sex and sugar and drama! I just love her old music).
Also, THumper let me thank you so much for turning me on to one of my new favorites...OLETA ADAMS...that woman is the bomb! I first noticed her in one of your wonderful reviews. Thanks so much for giving her props...because I understand that radio, etc. simply ignores her magaic. Sad, sad, sad.
OK...back to the PC.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 11:50 am: |
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I have been forgetting about a book to movie that produced, to me, the greatest black movie of all time.
I'm talking about THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X
And ROOTS was good. |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 10:09 pm: |
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Hello Thump
See, when finally I have the answer to one of your pop up questions someone snatches my apportunity right from under me....I'm not going to mention any names but "you can drink her" *LOL*. Anyway, it's good to see you're still alive and I knew you would enjoy "The Reign Of Fire". How about the flying "Bait Men"? Wasn't that the most daring scene you've seen in some time. Like I mentioned in my post, the movie is not for all but for those that enjoy that type it's surely a gem. But tell me, how did the Americans make the trip over without being......"discovered"?
The Wedding:
If Carl Lumley(sp) is in it, you can bet your last dollar it's not going to break any records.
Few people remember this but Not only did Whoopie NOT win for Best Actress, The Color Purple WASN'T EVEN NOMINATED!!!
Kola:
BELOVED:
It's not that we don't "get it". That's it, we got it and it wasn't..S...very good. Most of the things you mentioned (and there were a few *smile*) may be true but those inner meanings don't constitute a movie being called a masterpiece. The acting was poor, the timing was jagged and again it was way too long. I don't care how long this baby sits around and ages, it still will be a mediocre film.
*LOL* Now every time you come on the board and rave about Beloved, I'm going to reply with a rebut *smile*.
My daughter was thrilled at the sight of seeing your autograpgh in HER book, thank you very much.
Beloved still stinks *smile*.
Carey |
Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 02:30 am: |
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CAREY: Ok Beloved stinks. I like the smell.
love to you and Ann and your daughter.
Kola |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 06:20 am: |
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My bad, I meant to say Steven speilberg wasn't nominated for an Oscar as best directer for The Color Purple NOT the movie itself.
Kola: Just like chittlins, some hate 'em and some love the smell, I like that in you (standing up for yours).
You know what, I'm going to go out and get Beloved because although I've been messing with you about it, I really can't remember it. Aint that a shame. I need to be whipped with a dirty dish rag. This topic has led me to a host of discoveries. For instance I didn't know that 3 other actors were nominated for oscars in The Color Purple. I also found out that it didn't win a single one although it was nominated 11 times.
So I'm going to give Beloved one more try.
Love to you and the boys.
Carey |
Carey
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 06:55 am: |
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Thump
I agree, Standing At The Scratch Line would be a great movie ....BUT.... Spike is the only man alive that would do it justice! If Singleton gets anywhere near it, it will be a dismal corny flop. Look what that kid did to Shaft. Ask Samuel Jackson what he thinks of his work. I don't think we'll ever see those two work together again.
Although I've been raving about the Reign Of fire it did have a few holes didn't it. If we are to believe the premise to the ending ol'boy had to be doing a lot of flying or the waiting list for his attention had to be hugh, if you know what I mean. Maybe I missed something, how did he (the big bad wolf) manage to create his throng.
Carey |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:41 am: |
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I didn't like the movie The Color Purple. I thought it made the characters look like idiots.
It almost turned me off from reading the book, which I think was a work of genius. Another thing in the book that was left out of the movie probably due to Spielberg's instincts about what his ignorant, racist ultimate audience wanted, was Mister's redemption.
C'mon folks! The man said his favorite movie is Gone With The Wind. He probably fanatasizes about having Hattie McDaniel working for him.
On the other hand, I think that Demme did as good a job as he could on Beloved, what with Oprah tied round his neck! |
Patti Flinn
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 12:12 pm: |
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I am normally a quiet observer, but I have to chime in on this one.
Beloved was my favorite Toni Morrison novel for a long time and when it was made into a movie I was petrified. But I think Oprah and Jonathan Demme did a SUPERB job translating the novel to the screen. You have to remember how complex Beloved was to begin with to appreciate how difficult it must have been to remain true to the story. And overall, even just to look at it - it was a beautifully made film. The scenes are striking and the two young women (Newton and Elise) did a wonderful job with extremely challenging roles. Even Toni Morrison herself liked the screen adaptation.
Please, all you naysayers, take a look at the movie again as one of you promised to do. Everyone is going to have their opinion one way or another, but I believe (as do others too shy to stick up for this film) that sometimes when we (our community) hear the name Oprah we become doubly critical, so much so that we can't see the talent and the gift of a movie such as this. I'll scream it long and loud, if movies like Lord of the Rings and Independence day - movies with no plot or originality to speak of - can make millions, can't we give a little love to Beloved?
P.S. If Oprah were not around pushing films like Beloved do you think the film industry would ever do anything of its type on its own? Oprah around the neck is a pretty good tool to have, if you ask me. Some of us writers WISH we had an Oprah singing our praises and pushing our books/movies to the box office :-) |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 06:44 pm: |
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Hello Patti
Thanks for jumping in on this one. I agree with your take on (our communities) reactions to Oprah. However I can only speak for myself and my opinions of this film has nothing to do with Oprah. I have enjoyed most if not all of Oprah's roles. I will give this movie another look as I said I would. In fact I'm going to watch it tonight. You are also correct in saying we should stand behind Oprah when it is correct to do so. We shouldn't throw a blanket of dislike on everything she's involved in. Hey, like you said, we need more Oprahs. Thanks again for stopping by (and sounding off *smile*).
Carey |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:25 am: |
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OK, I saw the Beloved for the first time last night. I don't understand what the negative flap is all about. It's a pretty decent movie--certainly not horrid as I've heard people say.
Looks like most of circumstances were certainly plausible for the time period of the story. I've always heard talk of "haints" from the elders in my family. Sethe was a very "haunted" woman due to the chioces (albeit horrific choices in my humble opinon) she made for her children. Did Beloved really even exist, sometimes I wondered.
What am I missing here?
I tried reading the book years ago and I never got past the first 20 or so pages; I will give it a shot again. |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:55 am: |
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Patti,
Your name sounds familiar. I think I have your book on my "to read" list. Sorry, the title escapes me now. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 11:01 am: |
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Hey Sandra, Patti wrote the book, The List. I've heard nothing but good things about it and have it on my list as well.
-Tee |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
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Sandra, I too enjoyed Beloved, the movie, but I couldn't get into the book. I will admit that the first time I watched the movie, I was a bit "lost" and almost took a nap, but I've seen it twice and the second time I appreciated it a lot more.
And, since I didn't read the book, I can't say which was better, but I really didn't "get" or necessarily like the premise behind Thandie Newton's character...some of the things seemed so far fetched that it just didn't go over well with me, so if I had any flack about the movie, it would be that.
Other book to film movies...the Alex Cross series have all been pretty decent, however after reading the books, I didn't like them because they're so different, not to mention that Morgan Freeman IS NOT Alex Cross (in my mind)...even though he is a very good actor. I see someone younger and sexier. Ahaha. Plus, in the movies, they never focus on Sampson or Nana Mama and that makes no sense to me since a big part of Alex's life is his family and partner.
Another movie that I had mixed feelings about was Disappearing Acts. I loved the book...and really enjoyed the movie, however it pissed me off in parts and I kept saying..."that didn't happen in the book, WTH is going on?" So after being told to be quiet two or three (okay, five or six) times from my hubby, I let it go. Additionally, sorry, but that was not the role for Wesley Snipes...yuck.
Hmmm, I'm sure there are more, but I'll stop here and take a breather.
-Tee |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
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Tee,
I hope that more of the James Patterson books are made into movies. The books are way better though. Who do you see as Alex? Sam Jackson? I don't see Denzel in the role really. He's got to be a nice mid-forties age range; not a 20 something hip hoper.
I read Violet are Blue over the holidays--great thriller! |
Jennifer
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 03:18 pm: |
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Carey ... I simply don't understand all the raving about Reign of Fire. I felt, at best, it had potential. I am a HUGE fan of "period pieces" where set design and costuming is a definite art form. I think that the screenwriter attempted to cover too much material in too little time so that the story did not seem plausible to me. Or perhaps it was the director who was to blame. Who knows? All I do know is that I was left with the feeling of, "What the ...?" Christian Bale must be a very good actor because everytime I see him I can only think of the racist character that he portrayed in Shaft (another movie that had potential).
As far as the whole book-to-movie strand, I NEVER want to see books go to the big screen and DEFINITELY not the little screen. If I truly enjoy a book I want to hold onto the feelings and images that I created through the work of the author.
In general, the movie that was inspired by a book is a pale representation of the author's words. I did think that The Dead Zone (certainly not the series!) stayed true to King's words. As for The Color Purple, I think that the two works, independent of each other, were very enjoyable.
I hope you and your family had a safe and enjoyable holiday season. I've missed you and Miss Ann! |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 04:02 pm: |
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Hello Jennifer
It's always great to hear from one of the old school.
You really didn't care for "Reign Of Fire" huh? I understand your love of period pieces although I wouldn't classify this as one. Maybe it was the macho aspects of the movie that turned me on, the heroics. I too felt there were a few holes as I admitted to in an earlier post but in my opinion they didn't leave the realm of believability and therefore was not a distraction and did not take away from the films suspense. I am really surprised at your comments. I don't get your feeling of "What the ...? What else could the director have done? What was missing for you? Was it not suspenseful and even scary at times?
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Patti Flinn
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 09:19 pm: |
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Hi All,
Thanks, Carey, for making me feel welcome to vent. Thanks, Tee, for the shout out on my book. And thanks, Sandra, for saying that my name sounds familiar - those words are music to a writer's ears :-)
And about the movies listed above, I really want to see Reign of Fire, but I never read the book. I'll have to rent the video.
Hope one day we'll be discussing my book going to film! |
Jennifer
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 12:28 pm: |
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Carey ...I see Reign of Fire as a "period piece" because it does not deal with the present or the present as we know it. There had to be great thought as to the costuming to give us an understanding of the time and situation of the story. I wish I could put my finger on what was missing, all I know is that I came away from the movie without a sense of closure or great understanding. There just seemed to be holes in the story that I thought should have been sewed up. I'll have to watch it again to get into specifics. OOOHHH, there is one thing that I do remember, aside from the opening suspense with the dragon coming out of the hole, I thought the movie was WAY too predictable. But, on the other hand, I LOVE Matthew McConaughey. He is one of those actors that get placed on the "cute white boy" shelf in my never to be humble opinion. I suppose I took issue with his shaved head. I'm not much on blonde hair but Good Lawd! I like that man's golden-tossled look!
Carey (you KNOW this actually means Miss Ann), I haven't read a non-teaching book in almost over a year (save The Portable Promised Land which I loved), hep a sista out and give me ONE good read to go out and get this weekend.
AND ... I'm ba-ack!
Thump ... it's ta bonne fée, honey... I'm out! ...lol
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Brian Egeston
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 08:21 am: |
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Hmmm, the film industry. An artistic endeavor fueled more so by money and politics than the end result.
Case and point. Ice Cube has been given the green light to do whatever he wants because anytime he comes out with ‘Friday’, ‘Saturday’ or the ‘Friday after Mama’s Funeral’ he makes good money for the studios.
However, Spike Lee often finds himself asking/begging for money to finish his projects. Maybe it’s an issues of his budgeting or how much his films gross. I don’t know.
With regards to your initial inquisitions about the adaptation of novels to books, the biggest dilemma is time and pacing. Novels often range from 60,000 to 100,000 words or more and it is difficult, if not impossible, to translate every facet of the book into film and often time important details and powerful scenes do not make their way from book to film.
In a screenplay, one page represents one minute of film, therefore screenplays are usually 90 pages but some writer/directors have gone over limits writing 125 pages in a screenplay such as Spike Lee. And if you’ve seen the format of a screenplay you’ll note that the lines are almost triple-spaced and there are far less words on one page than on one page of a novel. So you can only image the difficulties of adapting a Tom Clancy novel into a 90-120 page screenplay.
Perhaps one of the biggest discrepancies in book writing and film making is that books are a solitary act whereas film making is about power; who has it on the movie set, how they use it, and what type of vision they have. Film is a director-driven medium. Stage is an actor-driven medium. TV is a producer driven medium, and novels are basically you and the writer having a conversation. You make a connection with the writer by engaging in details, facts, and characters that you love or love to hate and when it’s done you have, in fact, produced your own mental movie. However, after you’ve watched the movie in your mind and then someone gives you their version of what the movie should be, sometimes it clashes. Hence we are disappointed.
For example I offer the adaptation of Disappearing Acts which was, in my estimation, a wonderful and vivid love story. But in my mind, I never pictured an older rough looking man like Wesley Snipes making love to a young polished woman like Ms. Lathan. And I thought one of the most powerful yet frightening moments occurred in the book, when Franklin came home drunk and date raped Zora, then forced her to lay in his...secretions. To me that symbolized the rage and hate a man could inflict when he reached the extremities of his emotions. But in the movie, they touched the scene but stayed as far away from date rape and his...you know... as possible. Maybe it was a judgement of taste, but it was different story after that point.
If we look at Bingo-Long and the Traveling All Star Motor Kings, the film was much different from the novel. So much that the great Negro League players who were main characters in the book protested the film. The main character was a catcher, but in the film he was a pitcher because there was no way Billy Dee William’s face—who played the protagonist on film—could be covered up by a catcher’s mask. The women viewers would not have approved at all.
If we look at the Legend of Bagger Vance, the movie focuses on the relationship of Mat Damon and that girl(sorry her name escapes me) while the book’s sole purpose is to take the reader through and unbelievable golf match. The love affair is not even a small subplot in the book. But Robert Redford has been in the business a long time and he knows that people won’t pour into a theater and watch a golf match... unless it’s the FIRST Caddyshack.
And if we look at the adaptation of Native Son, the version where Richard Wright played Bigger Thomas. That was clearly an example of how power can ruin a film. Richard Wright, as gifted a writer as he was, couldn’t act like a rain drop even if someone dowsed him with water. And the last part of the book which show’s Bigger’s realization that all whites aren’t bad takes up about five minutes on film, but the novel spends an eternity on the subject. But Richard Wright absolutely insisted that he have heavy influence on the project.
In the film industry, novelists are often offered large sums of money so that they won’t have any input on the film. When a studio gets the rights, it’s their baby and they can raise it anyway they see fit. Pearl Cleage stated that she wouldn’t sell her book rights because she doesn’t trust anyone to treat her work fairly on film.
Therefore my friends, their will always be bad adaptations, good adaptations, and works of art...as long as they keep making money or someone is willing to spend money to make them.
By the way if you haven’t seen Drumline you should rush out and watch the newest black classic film. Even though there is a rumor that it’s based on an earlier independent film that didn’t do well.
Written With Warmth
Brian Egeston
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Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 02:04 pm: |
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HI Jennifer
I see your point in your reference to The Reign Of Fire as a period piece. I was thinking more on the line of Valmount and dangerous liaisons. But you are correct, If it's not in the present it's a different period and therefore the director has to convey that to us through costuming and scenery. Will have to have a long cup of coffee on this one because we seem to be miles about. You even said it was predictable...huuuum. Your boy was rather cut-up for his role (I knew you were going to mention him *smile). Even Bale put on a few muscles. I hope others chime in on this one. Thump said he enjoyed it and you know with his cheap self he had to have asked around before he dropped his dollars *smile*.
Carey |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 06:20 pm: |
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Greeting Brian Egeston,
I found your input visa-vis the subject being discussed very interesting and informative, especially since my approach to writing a book has always been to create a movie of the mind. I never even knew that this was a legitimate technique. LOL Anyway, to me, dialogue is also an important tool in the film making process. It can be used to explain and clarify the plot, and give dimension to the characters. All the elaborate settings and intense direction will have no great impact on a production if the dialogue doesn't ring true. When making "Gone With The Wind" David O. Selznick ended up with a script that used much of Margaret Mitchell's dialogue verbatum. He realized that the lines uttered by the characters was what made them who they were. Although this monumental production has fallen out of favor in some quarters, GWTW still stands as a prototype for effectively turning a book into a movie.
Cynique |
ME
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 12:49 pm: |
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I might be a little older than many of you who post comments here but you failed to include any discussion of the film adaptations of John A. Williams Night Song [Sweet Bitter Love]& Amiri Baraka's Dutchman. Both were independent productions from the mid-60's and are pretty effective. They are both available on video & Dutchman is also on dvd.
No one has mentioned the work of Euzhan Palcy,a Martiniquan sister, with two fine literary adaptations to her credit; Sugar Cane Alley, a great movie based on Joseph Zobel's Black Shack Alley & A Dry White Season, based on Andre Brink's anti-apatheid novel. Two works that should be seen.
Wendell B. Harris the director of Chameleon Street[one of the classics of independent black cinema & last seen in a bit part in Sodrbergh's Out of Sight] at one time wanted to adapt Invisible Man to the screen. The film of course could not BE the book ,but if anyone could have brought it off [believe me, many have talked about attempting it] I believe Harris, based on his work on .....Street could have provided an interesting & intellectually engaging take. |
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