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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:39 pm: | 
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Question. Can you ever recall in the history of black literature a time when so many books were available? It's great to see hundreds, if not thousands of writers pursuing their dreams of publication. But is there a such thing as the market being flooded? These days, in a given month, you could potentially buy up to 25 newly released books (including non-fiction). Can all the competing books hurt or help? Is it good to have a choice, and are you more selective in choosing what to buy/read? |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 02:41 pm: |
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NeeCee,
Yes, I think the market is flooded with black books, and there's too much sameness to them. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 03:08 pm: |
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NeeCee:
Yes, the market is flooded with black books but it isn't flooded with GOOD black books. I never just snatch up some books, I leaf through them, so I never get burnt.
I think it can't hurt. It will stimulate writing and competition. |
yasmin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 03:08 pm: |
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Hey NeeCee!
Sorry I missed you at BEA...maybe I'll meet you next year. Regarding TOO MANY BOOKS...yes there are but given that over 300,000 books are produced a year NOT even 5% of that number is from AA authors. I think it's GREAT that we finally have so much to choose from. Yes, all the competing books can hurt esp. if you're an author with a weak writing style or a story that isn't very compelling. But one of the few things I like about America is that we were built on competition and because of competition a lot of great companies have come about. (For example did you know that Mars Candy company was an offshoot of Hershey Foods. Yep Forrester Mars used to work for Milton Hershey; in fact he was one of his right hand men. Mars thought he could do it better or different so he started his own company and today we have snickers, m&m's right along with Hershey Bars, Kit Kat, Reese's et al)Okay I digressed for a moment but my point is as long as there are enough different storylines out there I welcome the diversity and numberous books with open arms. Am I more selective in what I choose to buy/read? You bet I am. In the past, I used to read and purchase more non-AA books...not anymore. Today all of my dollars are kept in the AA book buying community and 90% of the books I read each year are by (or about) African Americans.
If there are best-selling books by non-AAs authors that I want to read because of all the hype...I borrow them or check them out of the library.
Yes there is a lot of sameness to some of the books, but as I did when I read predominantly non-AA authors ,I will find a few authors whose style/writing I really enjoy and stick with them. But I have enjoyed reading many of the the new authors who are currently out because in doing so I've found some gems that I wouldn't have... if I hadn't given them a chance.
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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:06 pm: |
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Chris/Yasmin:
But with all the competition, aren't veteran authors selling less books than they used to in their hey day? Isn't the competition cutting into their profits, or is that fair game? |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:07 pm: |
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Yukio,
I agree with everyone, especially Yasmin...at least there is diversity. And, everyone can not be a great writer; there is never enough of them, which is why i'm still reading and rereading the classics(Both white and black). The market is diverse, and everyone can not read Colson Whitehead, and he is young. We have so many distinguised black novelists, who are doing good work, and people have listed them. We also have great African and Caribbean writers that we have access to, and have had for a long time, so lets read, read, and read some more!
BTW, usually when i see the glossy colorful covers, I don't bother to pick it up. Once i did, and the writing wasn't terrible, not good, but not terrible, so ya never know! |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:10 pm: |
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Yukio,
Glossy colorful covers - never thought of that before. Hmmm, something to think about. 
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:36 pm: |
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NeeCee:
I doubt it. How about yourself--do you just snatch books up willy nilly or do you check them out--my guess is that the poor author's stuff is laying on the shelf and the good stuff is moving. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:48 pm: |
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rofl.
chris, no, i do not get any and everything just because it's on the shelf. the storyline and story execution should be intriguing. and even if the storyline is familiar, if the author puts his little twist on it, i would consider it.
i love books by new authors, and like to support the veterans if they're bringing something fresh to the table.
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 05:28 pm: |
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I really admire how all of you have maintained your ongoing interest in the book world. As much as I used to love to read, I can't figure out why, lately, reading fiction has become such a chore for me, why I have become so hypercritical, and find myself asking the author of what I am reading if he or she really expects me to finish their book. Could it be that I am getting old, and have been there, read that? Oh me. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 05:42 pm: |
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Cynique:
It is just that you get tired of the same old hash--I have found it rewarding to go back and revisit old authors or books--you see them in a different light in the rereading.
Also it might help you to start tackling some of them "heavy" writers. I have been dealing with James Joyce and John Edgar Wideman--many a fun night wrestling with them. I reread My Soul to Keep and saw some stuff I had missed--a subtext. Also reread part of Carrie by Stephen King to get a better handle on his audience. |
yasmin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 06:43 pm: |
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Chris/Yasmin:
But with all the competition, aren't veteran authors selling less books than they used to in their hey day? Isn't the competition cutting into their profits, or is that fair game?
NeeCee...it could be but I honestly doubt it. Just because Mars started a different company vs. Hershey's doesn't mean it cut into the competition. What it did mean was that Hershey had to stay FOCUSED and continue to do what they did WELL. Additionally each of them has unique products that CAN'T be recreated successfully by the other company. (Trust Me...we've tried but it didn't work...hehe).
I think as long as veteran authors stay true to their craft and continue to put out quality products then they can be here for the long haul. I think the competition is good because a lot of the recent books that I've read and enjoyed have deviated significantly from the 'he say, she say' relationship novels and I enjoyed that. I think healthy competition is good because it keeps folks on their toes and doesn't allow them to rest on their laurels. Unfortunately, I think there are still so many talented AA writers of TODAY who are writing awesome storylines but no one ever hears about them because they're not your usual suspects. It seems that many major publishing houses caught on in the 80s that AAs DID READ and so commercial fiction sales escalated. Since those type of books are still paying the bills they're hard pressed to move away from them...and now they seem to be going backwards in the sense that the current trends are erotica and street fiction...definitely not literary fiction or even genres that critical readers want. But there are others who eating it up and buying it faster than they can produce those types of books.
Now regarding literary fiction, I say if you don't promote it and market it how do folks even know that these type of books exist. Best Sellers aren't necessarily written...they're promoted...and promoted heavily. Buzzs are created for these titles months in advance as well as store displays (can I say Harry Potter and Hilary Clinton). If anyone has enough money to put behind a book to have it displayed front and center in every store across the nation, I'm quite sure that they too could become a best seller.
I wish that publishers pushed more diverse titles rather than the usual suspects. Quite honestly, it's not the books that I know are going to do well that I want to promote or spread via word of mouth. For me, I would rather promote a hidden gem anyday. Give exposure to someone who might not receive it otherwise. And that's basically what I challenge others to do. Keep reading and when you find a book that's off the beaten path that's good tell us because I for one would probably like to pick it up and read it.
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yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:48 pm: |
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Cynique,
You're getting ol' girl...lol! Jus playin! I firsted and second Chris H's post( can you first second someone's post?). Reread, love and check other writers, older more mature writers, and read reviews, and check the NY Times review. Now, if i don't see the writer's book in NY Times on a Sunday, then I know it doesn't attempt to be "literary." This of course, pertains to black authors folks, which is really all i read, besides rereading the white masters(did i say masters?)and the NYTBR is not always useful; i also have a few friends that are writers and they often inform me of good fiction...i read and reread the black masters! Rereading always helps me to understand and appreciate the fiction, assuming that there's literature you deem rereadable. Also, since these folk are masters, you could and should study their work, this i believe, can never end, because great literature always finds a way to bring you back to the feeling...like an ol's song from childhood(good or bad).
Also, I doubt that you have read that...lol! No one has read that many books! There is soooo much to read; All cultures have classics; i just prefer African American, African, and Caribbean. You can look at the French, British, Spanish, etc...great literature is great literature, and so there is alot to learn from the masters...there goes that word again...how frightening our history in this country has been that it work's it teeth into every nook and crannie of our consciousness.....
Cynique, you are a writer, so that non-fiction is helpful, with themes and "pulse," as Kola described, so there is nothing wrong with that.
I've not read too many new folk, only Victor LaValle and Whitehead, and from S. Africa Mda Zakes, but i'm not sure how new he is...but he is young, being born in 1948.
Cynique, happy reading!
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:56 am: |
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Chris and Yukio, thanks for your suggestions. What's really discouraging is that a short attention span and a lack of focus also figure into my current reading malaise. Well, time to stop boring everyone with the details of my dementia. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:43 am: |
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Cynique:
My span is quite short too, so i don't read BABs, unless i feel i have to. Let me give you a suggestion. Three authors that i've been meaning to read and reading are: Caryl Phillips, Dambudzo Marechera(i've actually read 2 of his books/probably hardest to find) and Wilson Harris(I'm actually half done with Palace of the Peacock).
Read Black Sunlight, if you can find it, and share with me your thoughts; it should take no longer than three days, very short but difficult read |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:47 am: |
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oopS--Black Sunlight was written by Marechera.
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Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:51 am: |
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NeeCee, to answer you question, yes, I do think the market is flooded with African American books, but I don't see it as a bad thing, especially when you compare it to the number of other books that are coming out. (Unless we talk about the number of books that seem to be just thrown together without plots, character development, editing, etc.)
As far as hurting or helping, I would say yes and no...and agree with most of the opinions already given.
And yes, I'm more selective in what I purchase mainly because I don't have the book budget I had when I was working. Now, I limit myself to the number of books I buy per month (1-3 now vs the good ole days when I could buy 10-15.) I like to buy books from authors who aren't well known or who have a different sort of book. I'm tired of the same ole, same ole in books. The only exception to this rule is when it comes to ARCs...I'm not picky at all. If it's a black author or one of my other author favorites, I've gotta have it. I might not read it, but I will buy it.
I think it's wonderful to have a large selection, because this means there's something for everyone! That's why I like forums such as this because it gives me a guage to go by when thinking of books to buy. And, some of my friends, if they like a book, I know I probably will too and the opposite. I know one person on an online forum NEVER likes anything, and odds are, I will like a book she hated. <wink>
I have been visiting the library more now that I'm in civilation, but for books that I check out that are GOOD, I still turn around and purchase them.
-Tee |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 03:44 pm: |
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Tee,
In response to one of your comments - (books thrown together without plots)...this brings me to another question. I see lots of reviews that complain about books having no plot. And I honestly don't know what they mean by that. What do mean by a book has no plot? Thanks for your reply. |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 07:51 pm: |
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NeeCee:
Interestly, there is "postmodern,"( please don't ask me to define this term bcause i can not) literature where the author purposely constructs a story without a recognizable "plot." In this sense, there is alot going on, so that there is not an identifiable chain of events that can recognized as a coherent "plot." Plot is the foundation, which the theme, style, mood, and tone are embedded.
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NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 09:25 am: |
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Yukio:
Okay, so if I understand correctly, a plotless book simply has no foundation. It's incoherent, no legs to stand on...?
Thanks!
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:27 am: |
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Neecee:
If I may presume to interject--that isn't what it means at all.
We go back to one of the all-time classic books--so called, Huckleberry Finn. What is the plot, really? We go forward in time to James Joyce's Ulysees-no plot just one day in the life of this guy Bloom.
So called plotless books emphasize theme, character, setting and style rather than plot--which usually involves some character wanting something and how he or she gets it--your genre fiction leans heavily on plot, especially your mysteries or detective fiction. |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
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Chris,
Okay, now I get it. Books can either emphasize plot (action) or theme. I think either or can work, but never understood why some of the readers complained about the lack of a plot.
Thank you!
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yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:36 am: |
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NeeCee:
What Chris H described is what i attempted to say; He was much more precise. Also, the lack of action is not the same as not having a plot; the key word that i attemtped to identify is the incoherence within the action. I would suggest that you look for a literary book, because i'm not sure if i can give u a good example. (let me think about this and i'll return).
Chris H., I haven't read Huck FInn in a minute, but i thought there was a plot. COuld you tell me Y u don't think there was a plot?
Thank U! |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:04 pm: |
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Yukio,
Thanks. As a sidebar, I started to say "thank you, ma'am" to Chris, but thought twice before doing so. Had no idea Chris was a guy.
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Chris hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:26 pm: |
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NeeCee:
Some readers complain about the lack of a plot because this is what they go to a book to read or experience. To them such is confusing.
Yukio:
One reason why I don't think there was a plot is because Twain cautions us against seeking one in the beginning of the book.
Some have thought that the plot was Huck's trying to get Jim to Freedom--but this is more of a subplot. Basically Huck is meandering up and down the river, getting into different scraptes, visiting different places. The book does not have a plot in the sense of The Maltese Falcon--where Sam Spade is trying to find out who killed his partner and why. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 01:20 pm: |
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I agree Chris. Twain was too sophisticated a writer to try to just write a sappy "We Gotta Get Ni&&er Jim to Freedom" epic. The adventures and travails of Huck Finn, Tom Sawyer were simply vehicles for pointing out the lies, contradictions, ignorances, irony, humor, cowardice, heroism, evil and good of white southerners in 19th Century America who bordered and traveled the nation's most fabled waterway. The true "star" of Twains books is not Tom or Huck, but the Mighty Mississippi River. |
Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 02:37 pm: |
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Thank U both: Chris and ABM! I've not read it in a long azz minute, so i don't recall the specifics...maybe in a few yrs., i'll read it again. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:08 am: |
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What a revelation! I always thought that the plot was the frame work of a story, revealing what happens as the protagonist confronts conflict and ends up changed by his or her encounters. Hummmm. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:58 am: |
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Cynique:
We are all really talking from our own perspectives, i dare say. i'm sure we could go through several books on literary criticism and writing and we'd get several diffferent, but similar, definitions. Also, i think that your definition is just as good as anyone else's. The point about fiction is really about how events move the character(not necessarily what the meaning of these events to the character, which is the theme), as you state so well "what happens as the protagonist confronts conflict and ends up changed by his or her encounters," is perfect for me.
Consider one definition from Elements of Literature, 3rd edition, "Plot-The order of events in a story as an ongoing process." It basically says the same as what we have all said..... |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 01:59 am: |
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Cynique:
We are all really talking from our own perspectives, i dare say. i'm sure we could go through several books on literary criticism and writing and we'd get several diffferent, but similar, definitions. Also, i think that your definition is just as good as anyone else's. The point about the plot is really about how events move the character(not necessarily what the meaning of these events to the character, which is the theme), as you state so well "what happens as the protagonist confronts conflict and ends up changed by his or her encounters," is perfect for me.
Consider one definition from Elements of Literature, 3rd edition, "Plot-The order of events in a story as an ongoing process." It basically says the same as what we have all said..... |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 10:52 am: |
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All:
The original thread concerned whether the market was being flooded with black books.
I might submit that the market is being flooded with BOOKS period. The other night on Charlie Rose theyhad this author named James Patterson. Rose said the guy was a bestseller who'd made between 25-50 million last year.
I don't just read fine literature--i always keep an eye peeled on the best seller lists and read mags like Publisher's Weekly to see what's shakin over there--I, who count it my business to know such things, did not know who he was.
It might not be just Black books that are flooding the market, and this might be just part of the new philosophy of merchanidising that has captured the world of books (the world of almost everything)--sell 'em like you do cars.
Problem is, there are busts as well as booms. A lot of publishing houses and authors and bookstores are going down when the bubble busts. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:31 am: |
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Chris, I'm really surprised you've never heard of James Patterson who writes, among other things, the series on Alex Cross, a black criminal psychologist who is portrayed on screen by Morgan Freeman. ("Along Came A Spider" and "Violets Are Blue") |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 12:45 pm: |
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Nope. I know Elmore Leonard, James Ellroy, Dick Francis even, and a number of other people who do it but never heard of Patterson--no skin off his nose with all the dough he's making. |
leah mullen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 12:57 pm: |
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Greetings All:
I'm new to the message board, but not to aalbc. I've been writing for the site for around two or three years now. But I did want to respond to this question about the market being flooded.
I recently completed my first novel, Again and Again and I'm looking to self publish. A few years ago as I was hashing out story ideas and such when one of my friends told me to "hurry" to get something published because there were so many new young writers out there. Also someone else in the industry told me that the book stores are "running out" of shelfspace for the black books.
For some reason, none of this phases me. I was a reader before I was a writer and I always, I mean always have had more books on my to-read list than what I could handle and I'm talking about Black books.
Growing up my family had boxes and boxes of books in our attic, some were white New York Times Best Sellers, many were romances but quite a of them were the Black Classics like James Weldon Johnson, Toni Morrison, Rosa Guy. Way back when I did not get to read all of the black books that were available and we're talking about the early eighties when Sanddra Kitt first started out her career as a commerical fiction Romance Author and way before Terry McMillan came on the scene.
Then I went to Penn State and minored in Black Studies where I was introduced to political black authors like Naim Akbar, Maulana Karenga, the Autobiography of Malcom X etc. Again my to-read list grew by leaps and bounds.
In the early 90's I came to New York and worked in Publishing where I learned about all kinds of Black Books fiction, non-ficton, self help, spirituality, etc. I also joined the Association for the Study of Classical African Civilizations and there are quite a few Runoko Rashidi books I still need to get to.
Now Here I am still thinking about Go Tell It On the Mountain which I've wanted to read since I was 13. Add to that Marimba Ani's Yurugu, the Judas Factor and all of the hot new Black Romance writers, the list goes on and on.
....But I'm used to it, since as I said I grew up around black books and I've always felt that there was much more available than I could ever read in one life time. My husband and I have 1000 books in our library and we're still buying.
I personally love walking into B&N in the fiction section and seeing at least one Black author under almost every letter of the alphabet. Good or bad, to me, there will never be enough Black Books. This contemporary Black fiction is chronicling our times in a way that the literary classics don't.
I loved reading Shirley Hailstocks book, which I reviewed for allbc, because I'd never read about a Black geneticist before. I loved it!!!
Bring on the Black Books!! |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 02:01 pm: |
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The book market is flooded, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The question is how are people going to deal with it, or do they see it as a problem? I think, for writers, it is a problem. It's like getting caught in a traffic jam, things get slowed up considerably, and you have to think of creative ways to remove yourself out of the midst of it all. (Hope that makes sense).
Do you feel that writers should concentrate on producing less product? Taking more time to write and edit their books? (I hate those I wrote this in 2-month books). Or should they keep producing at the rate that they are just because they love to write? |
Brian
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 03:09 pm: |
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NeeCee, I have read through a lot of these messages and, like a lot of others, yes, I think that the book market is flooded. Also, like a lot of people who've responded, I don't mind a lot of books being on the market, but, when 90% of them have the same types of subject matter, it's discouraging for me as a reader who'd prefer more variety. Could the problem be that authors are afraid to be adventurous and try something different? Maybe the authors are afraid that if they write what they REALLY want to write, nobody will want to buy it? |
NeeCee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:32 pm: |
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Brian,
I don't think the majority of writers are afraid to try something different, however, they may concerned about messing up their loyal readership. Maybe publishers are more concerned about this than writers. Most writers have this urge to break out and do something against the trend, but if the publisher doesn't think the book is marketable, the writer is stuck like Chuck. |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 05:47 pm: |
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Hello All,
I have to agree that the market is so flooded with the same type of book that I'm expecting to see Noah and his Ark any minute now. I would have to say that a popular writer could just about write anything he wants and have it published whether his publisher find his work marketable or not, by simply going the self-published route. True, this is dependent upon what is in the author's contract, but with some of the successes a few is having in the self-published realm, I would think that a well know author would have no problems. |
Brian Egeston
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:42 pm: |
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"Market saturation is bad for business." --Stringer Bell
For consumers, it's great. I vividly recall walking into a Black bookstore in 1992and having two choices. Terry McMillan or E Lynn Harris. Now you can walk into Wal-Mart and we have an entire section. Sure many of the books are the same, but mixed in with the sister-girl,inner city lamenting, there is something interesting and unique.
As far as house-authors going SP...don't count on it. E Lynn says**, "Why would I do all of that work when they do it for me and pay me all of this money."
**confidential source
Timm McCann, who has quit writing, stated, "I don't have the time nor energy to SP again."
For some reason people think Michael Baisden is SP again, but he's not.
It's a tough dilema. Write what I want, or make a lot of money. Hmmm.
Sincerley Scribed
Brian Egeston |
Brian
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 08:58 am: |
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Brian E., I don't know if this is a touchy subject or not but did Timm McCann quit writing because of frustration?
Also, can't there be a blend of writing to make money and writing what you want? |
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