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Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 05:03 pm: | 
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Y'all, what is going on? The AALBC Boards are one of my favorite places to visit and I try my best to stop through at least once a day, but dang. Can we PLEASE get back to books?
This is very sad that it seems we're spending so much time on negativity and carrying on a post that has almost no positivity in it. Yep, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but dang...how about an opinion on a book or two? On a literary event? On a new author? On an indie author hitting the scene. Can we just leave the Kola threads alone and move on? Sad, sad, sad.
A sista is about to change her home page to something else. <wink--yep,> But seriously, can we PLEASE move on??
A few of us are trying to carry on other threads, but it sure would be cool to get some activity on one of them that actually falls in this category..."African-American Literature."
I'm disappointed...and done. Hope we can get back on track.
-Tee |
akaivyleaf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 05:13 pm: |
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I most certainly concur. I love to talk about books, and it seems that hear lately, when I read on the board we're talking about people rather than their literary work.
Lets get back to talking about those books we all love so well. |
akaivyleaf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 05:13 pm: |
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I most certainly concur. I love to talk about books, and it seems that here lately, when I read on the board we're talking about people rather than their literary work.
Lets get back to talking about those books we all love so well. |
sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 06:12 pm: |
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After defending myself..I AGREE. |
Linda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 06:37 pm: |
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I hear ya'll...enuff said...you are right...I'm done defending myself...on to better dialog and wonderful books. |
Sis E
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 07:15 pm: |
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Sis E,
Sooooo! Back to books ... again (though the classic image of James Brown, cape covering his shoulders, stumbling off the stage to be gone forever, only to straighten up, throw off his cape, and come roaring back again keeps flickering through my mind).
I'm finishing up Lay My Burden Down, the 1921 murders of eleven plantation slaves in Georgia, by Gregory Freeman. It's really grisly reading, but those were really grisly murders -- mostly done by a Black man whose mind was still held in slavery by his white "boss" master. He was so afraid that his white boss would kill him if he didn't follow orders and kill the Black men -- his friends and co-workers!
The white man and the Black man were both brought to trial and the white man was found guilty and sentenced to life. The Black man -- well, I'm still reading about his trial.
It's an eye-opener, to read about how the crushing impact of slavery lingered on for so long after the Emancipation Proclamation, evolving into peonage and then sharecropping. And it's said that some Black folks are still sharecroppers, to this day.
I've got those humorous books on my to-read list, too, after "The Wind Done Gone." |
Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 07:39 pm: |
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Hey, All---
I've tried to post a couple threads to get things moving but there hasn't been much of a response. I didn't know what else to do. There's a thread about book descriptions and covers, and one on a possible book deal for Jayson Blair...other than that I'm at a loss.
I am excited, however, to meet all you folks at BEA. Have we decided on a meeting place? Is there a hotel where everyone's staying and we can do the lobby bar thing?
Bayou |
Yvette
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 07:40 pm: |
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Hi Tee,
Thank you for saying something that has needed to be said for weeks now. It is no fun coming to this board and having to constantly read people bickering at each other and name calling, especially when none of it has to do with books. As someone mentioned in a previous post (I don't remember which thread), it makes some people leery of posting their thoughts for fear of being lashed out at.
Anyway, I am currently reading and enjoying Jonah's Vine Gourd by Zora Hurston. I recently finished Between Lovers by Dickey, One True Thing by Anna Quindlen, and Grace by Nunez. Next up is Something Real by J.J. Murray (which I am reading with a local book club). Also on my short list is Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs and Bruised Hibiscus by Elizabeth Nunez. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 08:24 pm: |
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Well, hey hey now...thanks for making me think I wasn't sitting ova here alone scratching my head. Glad to be a catalyst to get things moving again.
Sis E , I was going to read Lay My Burden Down, but I think I'ma pass now. You definitely NEED a humorous book after that. As for me, I can't deal with that kinda reading right now. LOL. It pisses me off.
Bayou, Sorry I missed your earlier threads, I think I was a little ticked by the other posts that I was half-checking for new topics, but I'm all caught up now I think. Thanks for giving me that nudge. I'ma keep my mouth closed on the Jayson Blair thing though, that's a dang shame. :-(
As far as BEA, I can't remember where I'm staying, but it's a block from the Convention Center, so I'd be glad to check to see what their bar area is like. There are folks coming in from about 5 groups I'm on, in addition to some folks in the publishing industry I'm planning to meet up with. Don't ask me how the heck they're going to know it's me. I think I'm going to just walk up to everyone and say...hey, I'm Tee! Or walk around with some big ole signs. Too funny. Normally, I have my daughter Joy, so folks figure out it's me, but this time, I'm coming solo and hanging with two of my book loving girlfriends. Can't wait, can't wait!!!
Shall we shoot for Wednesday or Friday? Seems the other major events are on Thursday and Saturday.
Yvette , I tend to have a big mouth and the military officer in me steps out every now and then (I like order and professionalism). I just hate loving something and not being able to enjoy it for whatever reason. Hopefully we're moving on...moving on. And oooh, you've been reading some good stuff!! I haven't read Jonah's Vine Gourd, but I did read Between Lovers by Dickey (and enjoyed it). I didn't read Thieves Paradise, but I'll probably read his new one. It's been calling my name for the last month, so I let someone else read it so I wouldn't sneak it in. I've also read J.J. Murray's first book, Renee and Jay which I liked for the most part. He's pretty funny. Haven't read his latest. As for Elizabeth Nunez, I read Discretion (because I had to) and was glad that I did. I like her writing style, but if I didn't have to read it, I probably would've stopped after the first few chapters. I found it to be VERY VERY slow and I need a book a bit faster to pull me in. I doubt I'll read Grace for that same reason. I've heard nothing but good things about it, so I haven't ruled it out entirely. :-) And Bruised Hibiscus is on my shelf as well...please let me know how this one is...in regards to the slow pace.
-Tee |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
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Some of you frequently spout off a bunch of short, cutesy opinions about a lot of books. But your comments are often trite and vapid. I can't make heads or tails of what you prefer and why.
I think if you actually talked substantively about books - about plot, character development, story pacing, syntax, theme, climax, morality - and if you related what you read to real issues/people that others can related to, you may be able to elicit more interest among others in what you are reading.
You decry the Kola fiasco. But as silly that whole drama was, it was easy for folks to get into because, well, it was...interesting.
Just a thought. |
Lurker
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:20 pm: |
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I agree, ABM. |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:22 pm: |
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oh darn I missed a Kola fiasco?
oh well...back to books ;) |
Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 01:34 am: |
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Back to books...Thanks, Sandra |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:15 am: |
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Hello All,
Yes, back to books.
I'm aware that I'm about to tick a couple of you off *big evil grin* *LOL*, but I would like to discuss what ABM brought up earlier. I can feel some of you getting in your defense stance now. *big smile*
ABM: The reason the conversation in the post concerning most of the books in these posts can't get much deeper with the books and posts you hinted at is because there's nothing else to those books. There's nothing to dissect. Most are pretty stories and that's it. There are no style, no creative use of the language. There's no THINKING required of a reader. Now, before everyone starts to call me out, I read these very same books...half the time. It's pure escapism. But there's nothing memorable or working about these books that beyond, "I like this" or "Sally was a heifa". There's nowhere to go. But, let it come to a book that requires a little working of the gray cells, that book can't get no time.
Which leads me to the question, Shouldn't we, the reading audience, take some responsibility for the publishing industry for churning out the same ol', same ol' constantly? Basically, are you selling yourself short by constantly reading books that holds no social significance?
I believe we are. I believe many of us are just plain lazy when it comes to thinking. And we really are so not used to it, that the very thought that a book might cause us to THINK scares the piss out of us. Most of the books that many consider "hard" or "difficult" are the very same books that have books written about them analyzing it. What's to analyze about an E. Lynn Harris book? *eyebrow raised* I find that it is the "difficult" books that spawn endless debates and conversations. |
InPrint
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 12:25 pm: |
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Thump-A-Dump (and everybody),
I agree, when work has little depth, there's really no where to go. Discussions end up like the old Chris Farley interviews on SNL ("Remember when BLANK happened? Yeah...That was cool...Yeah...") Readers should demand more of themselves, definitely, but it goes both ways.
I think it's not just on the readers. A lot of literary fiction is just really boring. So often there's little concern for plot movement, or for any nod to entertainment value. I'm saying this as someone who reads literary fiction exclusively, and writes it. Authors can't expect readers to come just to bask in the glow of their brilliance. Reading is time-consuming, demanding, and a risky business (with books at $24 a pop). It is something that should be enjoyable, and some lit authors lose sight of that.
I think another problem is the repetitive nature of lit fiction. How many slave stories do we need? How many struggling-against-racism stories? How many bible size tomes about the minute emotional movements of painfully sensitive souls? I love prose, and that's why I read many of them, but it gets old. There's a concept of what lit fiction should be about, and many writers just cover the same old topics. They've turned black lit fiction into a genre as predictable as the sistagirl books.
Another problem I think is the fact that every lit book is over-hyped. Every black male writer is the next Ellison/Baldwin/Wright, every woman the next Hurston/Morrison. Then when you read them, often they're just pale photocopies of the originals. Part of this, I think, is that in lit fiction, unlike black commercial fiction, the next big black writers are chosen by white people (ZZ Packer gets a nod from Updike, Colson Whitehead from Russell Banks, etc.) and that as far as white writers are concerned, discussing the white people and their affect on us is our artistic purpose.
So then, I guess, it goes back to your point- black readers need to anoint the next generation of lit writers, and those writers need to speak directly to them.
Thoughts? |
Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 01:24 pm: |
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Hi InPrint, by the same token, how many baby Mama drama books to we need? How many I-am-beautiful-designer-clad-single-and-successful-living-in-the-big-city-and-ye t-me-and-(3 or 4)-sistagurlfriends-can't-find-a-good-black-man books do we need? Or the more recent books, where characters are having sex with nearly everyone, in every position possible, yet marriages survives and all remain disease free. Sorry but none of these types of books speak to me nor interest me.
And, you don't think some of most of these contemporary authors aren't hyped to the nth degree either?
I'm aligned with Thumper's point of view. When you know the ending of the book before you start, why even start? Or if you get all those *twists and turns* on every third page, yet still the story ends at the same place, again, why start? Turning pages to see how more outrageous the characters can behave isn't really all that entertaining. If so, watch the idiot box instead, and save yourself a few dollars.
You say reading is time consuming, but it seems readers revel in the *quick read* books that they can sit for 2 hours and be finished. Since there's not enough pages for any character development, all you have is a series of events that supposedly make up the plot.
I'll take a slow and thoughtful book any day over one that's fast and thoughtless. 
JMO.
Susan |
InPrint
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 06:11 pm: |
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God bless you Susan, If I wasn't married you'd be getting a proposal in this post. I wish there was a nation of readers just like you.
I agree with you both on the crappy commercial book thing. Repetitive, poorly written drivel that is more about the "author's" entrepreneurial dream than the work itself. The only good in them I see is that they get people who don't read to start, and hopefully they'll go on to works of quality.
Since my last post I've been to two readings. One for a well respected lit writer at a large black bookstore. TWO people showed up. I then stopped at a Barnes & Noble where there were a couple of low brow self-published authors- there were at least 80 in attendence, I had to park two blocks away. Madness.
The worst part was during the Q&A, where one of the authors loudly declared that, "Every black author since Teri McMillian has been self-published! Just look, E. Lynn Harris, Eric Jerome Dickey, Karen Miller, all of them!" This is with a wall that had ZZ Packer, Victor Lavalle and Toure's books in full display. I don't think he'd ever heard of any of them. It's like people on that circuit are in their own world. I just don't understand. It's depressing. |
yasmin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 06:25 pm: |
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Hey Thumper, In Print and Susan...I'm right there with all 3 of you. I would love to read and discuss books that are more in-depth but since I have a short memory (too many books...too little time) but when it comes to discussing ANY book I find it best when I discuss and read books at the same time as other reading bodies. In another bookclub there were a few of us who recently read and discussed The Drift by John Ridley and it was so ENLIGHTENING and STIMULATING because we were all on the same page and when someone ran into a stumbling block they had somewhere else to discuss it with. So having said all of that, I'm up for a good "make me think read" that empowers and inspires but timing is everything when it comes to discussing it. But more importantly, I'm still happy that there's diversity in the reading titles of late...really prior to the late 80s there weren't a lot of books about AAs that APPEALED to the masses. Additionally, I'm happy that after I finish reading a book such as the Drift, More Like Wrestling, Sapphires Grave, Sula, Invisible Life, et al that I can also find something lighter and mindless to take me away from the troubles of the world that's written by an AA author.
So while my preferences might lean to more 'literary' reads its nice to know that I have CHOICES from AA authors. In the past when I wanted a break I would pick up a book by Danielle Steele (yeah I did...and I admit it...hehe) but today there are TONS of contemporary/commercial AA fiction authors that I can turn to for that quick fix.
INPRINT what you said below is SO TRUE:
"I think another problem is the repetitive nature of lit fiction. How many slave stories do we need? How many struggling-against-racism stories? How many bible size tomes about the minute emotional movements of painfully sensitive souls? I love prose, and that's why I read many of them, but it gets old. There's a concept of what lit fiction should be about, and many writers just cover the same old topics. They've turned black lit fiction into a genre as predictable as the sistagirl books. "
This supports my argument that even I need a break from lit fiction because even these storylines start to sound alike...and more often than not THEY'RE DRAINING mentally and emotionally for me. I connect with the reading but sometimes a little more than I would like to...some of these books stay with me like a bad nightmare...hehe.
In closing (whew this was supposed to be a short message) ova time I've found that I do much prefer to discuss lit fiction with my bookclub members because the discussions are more thorough and engaging and we have more to ponder...Thumper you definitely hit the money regarding contemporary fiction reads and there really being little to discuss at times...other than I liked it or I disliked it. But what I've also found out is that when the group selects lit fiction books to read as a group effort that we can't ever get more than 10 folks to read the book. However, the folks who read the book have a LOT to say ...the conversation/dialogue goes on for DAYS ...and the discussion actually encourage others to pick up the book (even if they later say they don't like it or don't get it or don't feel it). But let it be the latest xxxxx (fill in the name doesn't matter who it is...as long as its a favorite contem/commercial author) more than half the group will READ the book and have NO MORE than 2-3 sentences to share about the book. Needless to say the discussion quickly ENDS.
Just goes to show that quality rules more than popularity for a more in-depth, detailed book discussion...well at least with my bookclub. ;)
Thank God for variety and diversity and isn't it good to know there's an AA title for everyone TODAY! |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 06:59 pm: |
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I agree with the points made by each poster on this subject, and I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has become increasingly unfulfilled with what is currently gutting the fiction market. Personally, I've gotten to the place where I approach a book with a "show me" attitude, expecting the author to prove that what he or she has written is worth me spending my time reading. And because more often than not, I'm unimpressed, I've begun gravitating toward nonfiction, especially well-researched, well-written biographies of notable black folks. Sometimes truth is not only stranger than fiction, it's more interesting! Mysteries and science fiction are other diverting alternatives for me. And, lately, when I want something more challenging and thought-provoking, I turn to verse, hoping to understand what the poet is trying to say. Still, I like nothing better than to be drawn into a good, original novel. Don't we all? |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 08:16 pm: |
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Hello All,
YES,YES, and YES, to all of the above!!
InPrint: I know where you're coming from with the novel full of prose and little on storyline. Stanley Crouch's Don't The Moon Look Lonesome is the PERFECT example!! Crouch wrote, probably, the most beautiful prose with a jazz inspired flow I think I had ever read. He laid it down! But the story? Talk about slow movin'. I was reading it and saying, OK, Stan, that's a beautiful sentence and all, but can we move the story along. I never did finish that book. It's a shame too, for a hatchet should have been taken to it. In my opinion, Stephen Carter's The Emperor of Ocean Park suffered from the same thing.
I'm feeling you on the slavery theme lit fiction novel too. That theme is creeping up on the 3 or 4 sista girlfriend books as to the sheer number of books. I'm like can we pick another subject or something. Let's take Percival Everett for example. I don't care what nobody say, that man is a genius in my book. The three or four novels that I've read of his, all cover a little explored aspect of AA life. Now, my favorite of his is God's Country, which is about a dumb ass white cowboy who has a smart old black hand who tries his best to keep the white cowboy out of trouble. The book is poignant and HYSTERICAL!! But God's Country can't get no play. I was so pleased when Victor LaValle came out with The Ecstatic that I was ecstatic. Give me a new bent in AA life that is beautifully written. I've been saving Such Sweet Thunder by Vincent Carter. I talked about him before. The book is tight. I'm going to be able to get to it next week. And he lays it down. But, will the book be a hit? *eyebrow raised*
I guess the real bee in my bonnet is that many of us underestimate ourselves. I am going to say right here, it's not illegal to think. Go ahead and try a book that you think is too hard for you. You'll find that it's not as difficult as you might believe. Grab a paperback Webster dictionary to look up any word you don't know and go to it. Ain't no shame in my game, I did it and still look up words.
Yasmin: Yes, thank the Lord we now have variety. It's been a long time coming. I will reach for a liter read for a break or two. But, I still want those read to be a good, tight read. Just because its a U-go-girl book don't mean it has to be sloppy and loose.
Cynique: I've been leaning towards non-fiction myself. Truth is stranger than fiction, especially when the fiction is tired. Right now, I'm reading, Stagolee Shot Billy by Cecil Brown. So far, its fascinating. Brown reveals that the basis of the song really happened. There really was a William Lyons who was shot in the stomach by a (Stack)Lee Shelton (a PIMP!) over a white Stetson hat. Chris, you were right. The incident took place in 1895 on Christmas Eve in the red light district of St. Louis. I'm only 50 pages into it, and I totally engrossed. Now, this is the kinda stuff that I'm talking about.
I have three biographies that I'm going to launch into next week: Fred Wesley, James Forten and Pierre Touissant's. I haven't read a biography in a dog's day. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 12:14 pm: |
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Hey all, thanks for jumping in.
ABM, interesting take on things, thanks for sharing. I appreciate your opinion, but I guess some of us look for different things when visiting these boards. If I'm not reading along with someone on a particular book, I really don't want to know the details, so the quick summations work for me. I like to get a "feel" for the book. I'd prefer to save the dissertations or more detailed discussions for people who have actually read the book and a lot of times, I don't want to give too much away about the book. I do however agree with some of your other points and will make an effort to try to incorporate those into future comments...without spoiling the book for others. As far as the posts directed at specific individuals, I'm sorry, but I simply don't find that interesting...reminds me of those Jerry Springer shows I watched when they first came out. It does nothing for me...
Thumper, I agree with some of your points as well, but I do believe the main reason I personally don't get indepth with any book on these boards is because most times, either I haven't read the book or someone else hasn't read what I'm talking about. Yes, you're correct in saying that some books have nothing to discuss, but even in a lot of the same ole, same ole, I tend to find a lesson. Something I can take and apply to my life to hopefully make it better. I think it varies from person to person what you qualify as "social significance" because we are all at different points in our lives.
InPrint, I'm following what you're saying and agreeing emphatically. <wink>
I still think it all falls back onto what you're looking for when you read. Most times than not, I'm looking for something that is entertaining, fast-moving, and that once finished, I can stop and reflect on what I've learned from the book. I want to be entertained, yet I want to be inspired and educated mainly on what I can take from the book and use to improve my life.
Cynique, I'm not a big non-fiction reader, but look forward to you sharing some of those that you are reading.
Again, thanks for jumping in.
-Tee |
Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 05:03 pm: |
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InPrint, just think, if you were one of the characters in some of the novels out today, already being married wouldn't stop you from taking another.
Yasmin, perhaps I am on the only one board who was reading adult fiction in the 1970s. I had no problem finding books before the 80s (pre McMillan). There has always been a variety of books for readers. Granted, I will concede there are more to select from today, but that is also true of most everything.
And, yes, I agree the slavery books can be depressing but it's also as equally as depressing to read of grown people behaving like they're 15 years old. You would think, with all the successful characters in these books, that some would at least buy a clue.
Thumper, you mentioned having a dictionary nearby while reading, at my book club meeting a member said she loves reading books that challenge her in which she has to jot down words from time to time and then look them up in a dictionary.
Susan |
akaivyleaf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 04:40 pm: |
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I like to mix my fiction and non-fiction books and of late, I prefer non-fiction. Partly because as someone mentioned earlier the truth is stranger than fiction which compells me to keep reading. I must agree with Tee though in that some of it just pisses me off.
As far as substantive reading in fiction- I'm sick to death of heavy fluff, little or no plot, vast amounts of characters who aren't about anything and its difficult to make comment about those types of books. I don't necessarily want to say that I just flat out hate the book, I can respect the writing, the flow of the language but thats not what we discuss around here it seems. BTW - Thumper I totally concur with what you said earlier about the Emperor of Ocean Park. Poor man was a slave to the English Language and it detracted badly from the story. My eyes glazed over as I struggled through. There is a good story there, you just get caught up in word usage.
I also am hesitant to post about a book in great detail because I don't want to spoil it for someone who is reading or wants to read the book. Maybe we should incorporate the Spoiler Space in our messages which will hopefully foster more dialogue about the book. Every once in a while posting discussion questions about a book will enhance our discussion of the book, especially if we get used to answering the question "why" we feel the way we do. |
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