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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 11:15 am: | 
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Hello All,
In the middle of trying to churn out reviews as fast as I read the books, I've been in a real manly-man mood. Right now I'm reading Triple Take by Y. Blak Moore. It's starting off REAL good! This is the third book in a row that I've read written by a male author that could be classified as "urban". I hate that classification too. But, the books have been hard: first Glenville Lovell's Too Beautiful To Die, then Solomon Jones' The Bridge and now Triple Take. I missed the mens. The tone and feel of a book is different between women and men writers. There's been a few that have fooled me and have successfully written from the opposite sex point of view, but not many. Eric Jerome Dickey, Marcus Major and Brian Keith Jackson can write from a female poitn of view and I will forget that the author is a man. Not too many women authors have been able to pull it off though. The only one that comes to mind is my girl Nichelle Tramble with The Dying Ground. Am I being sexist when I say that male author's tone is harder (for lack of a better word) than female authors. Could that be the reason black male authors with this "harder" tone to their novels isn't as popular as their counterparts? I think so. |
Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 03:57 pm: |
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Thumper--
Hey, you. I tried to raise this subject a little in another post but it got lost in the discussion.
Do you think the "harder" tone of the male writers is due to subject matter and setting? I think, using the books that you referenced, that a softer tone wouldn't have served the plot.
Brian Keith Jackson, Calvin Jackson, Jervey Tervalon cover hard subjects but somehow it has less "bite" in the language. Maybe that's because their novels were set outside the big cities.
What do you think? Do you think the setting influences the tone?
Bayou |
Sandra
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:43 pm: |
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What about Martha Southgate's The Fall of Rome? The major characters in this book are a black man, black boys and a white woman. I think she did a great job of writing from a male perspective. Her novel alternated between "hard" and "soft" story telling. Why do the men think? |
yasmin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 09:54 am: |
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Hey Sandra and Thumper...I agree with both of you.
Thumper I read Triple Take and yes it was urban, harder core and one of the weaknesses of the book was that he could not tell the story very well from the female perspective...and his sex scenes were horrible...truly seemed like slam bam thank you mam. But sex scenes aside, I liked the fast-paced, action-packed, plot driven storyline.
Sandra...I thought Southgate really got into the heart/head of the male characters and yes she alternated between hard and soft story telling.
I also think Elizabeth Nunez does a good job of speaking from the male's point of view in Discretion and Grace. In both of these books, I found myself drawn to the male characters with their flaws, faults and weaknesses..esp. the husband who was treating on his wife in Discretion. While I didn't agree/condone his actions, Nunez made me understand and had me hoping that he would leave his wife for his mistress the love of his life.
So Thumper what say you about Nunez...can she write from the male perspective. I guess she can but not from that hard core, purely over the top masculine perspective.
Hmm Bayou Lights I just saw your post and you made me pause and I tend to agree that the harder/more masculine/street tone might influence ones tone but then I thought about Sister Souljah's book the coldest winter ever and while Midnight only had a small role she actually did a decent job of writing his character and having me like/love him. Hmm I just contradicted myself because yes she made his character 'softer/romantic/someone that women would love in the midst of the darkness of the story. So she actually gave us a male that everyone would want to love (ie I've heard so many women say I want a Midnight in my life)even tho' the setting was staying alive in the game.
In closing, back to Thumper, yes I do believe that authors who write with a harder edge aren't as popular because face it...when it comes to who's reading and buying contemporary FICTION books in the AA community its still women (primarily between the ages of 25-54) and most women aren't reading to deal with something that they already know...most women read to escape the harshness of reality. However, I will contradict myself again and say that folks who enjoyed Coldest Winter Ever, B-More Careful, True to the Game and the likes will also enjoy Triple Take...the author has just got to do more to promote his book and get the word out that he has a story to tell because his publishers are not going to do it for him. |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:37 am: |
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Hello All,
I hope I don't forget anyone in my response.
Bayou LIghts: For a number of the books, I agree with you that the setting and subject matter could have a lot to do with it. But there are just as many books where the setting and subject matter have been tackled by both male and female writers and I can still tell the difference. Take Seed by Mustafa Mutabaruka. In my review I compared him to Gayl Jones, but the subject matter have been tackled by many female authors, featuring male lead characters that didn't have that masculine ring to it. Morrison's Song Of Solomon, McFadden's Loving Donovan, to name two right off the top of my head. Both ladies did a wonderful job. But that distinctive thing in the voice and tone that says "male" is missing.
AS far as the authors Jackson and Tervalon, the novels I read by these men are softer, but its not the rural settings, its that the main characters are women, Dead Above Ground and The View From Here. Could their tone be softer because their main characters are women?
Sandra: You are correct. I don't know how I missed Martha Southgate! She did an EXTRAORDINARY job with The Fall of Rome!! Southgate tone was hard. By the time I finished the book, I had forgotten that a woman wrote it. And you know another female author that pulled it off was Tracy Price-Thompson. She did fine in Black Coffee but in Chocolate Sangria, she blew it up.
Yasmin: I agree with you about Triple Take, but I took it to another thread, so as not to clog up the main focus of this one. I might have to send Moore a Zane book. Nunez does a good job. But I can still tell that a woman wrote it. As I pointed out in the first post, I wouldn't leave the harder edge, urban based stories to just men, Nichelle Tramble did a remarkable job with The Dying Ground. But its not just the urban based stories in which I was making my assessment. Take again Seed by Mustafa Mutabaruka. The story isn't urban, but it is unmistakenly male. Have you read Seed yet. If you haven't, I highly recommend it. Triple Take deserves more attention than its getting. But, what I wish I could twitch my nose and make happen is that more men realize that these stories and novels are being written and they might enjoy it. The danger in that line of thinking is that its a form of segregation, more in line of "pink is for girls and blue is for boys", which I think we should get away from.
It seem to me that if the women want to read books that takes them away from their circumstances, why would they keep reading books with the cheating husband, spoiled kids, and stupid women making stupid moves? *eyebrow raised* |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 01:48 pm: |
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Octavia Butler is a female writer who consistently writes male characters as well as any man could and whose intonation and style rings totally "asexaul".
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 03:16 pm: |
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Hello People,
Coincidentally, I just finished reading "The Queen of Harlem" by Brian Keith Jackson, and one of the notable things about this book was how Jackson portrayed his female characters. He gave them all strong, independent facades while subtlely exposing their inner vulnerability. All of which gave me the impression that Jackson was very comfortable writing about women and had no problem making them sympathetic characters. Not so, ironically, with the men in his cast. I supposed that since Mason/Malik, the male protagonist was a "work-in-progress" I can forgive him for being such a vacillating, insecure, self-absorbed person, but I'm less inclined to overlook his "sensitive" reaction to a sexually aggressive woman. Jackson's other male cast members were just "types" created to advance the story line. As for the softness or hardness of the circumstances, the settings of this book were as "urbane" as they were "urban" and the women were all able to adapt, thanks to the flexiblity Jackson endowed them with... Anyway, the following observation is one I make because I think it's pertinent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading that Brian Keith Jackson is gay. Gay men very often make good friends and confidantes to straight women, so it figures that, as authors, their ability to empathize with women carries over into their
writing. All in all, I think Jackson did a credible job in his treatment of the opposite sex, and I found "The Queen Of Harlem" to be an entertaining, well-plotted change of pace! |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 08:11 am: |
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Hey Cynique, I'm going to have to defintely check out The Queen of Harlem as I've heard nothing but good things about it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
Thumper, back to your initial question, I think Timmothy B. McCann does an awesome job writing from the female point of view. I've read all of his books (except always) and can't wait to get to his next one. He has a way of writing that's very touching...that hits me in deep spaces. I can't even put it into words, but he is one of my favorite male writers.
And oh, I keep mentioning Keith Lee Johnson, and I like the way he writes as well. I'll have to come back to this post when his next two books come out so I don't give anything away. But I think he writes both male and female characters very well.
I'll think about some others...this is a great thread.
-Tee |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 08:52 pm: |
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Hello All,
Thanks for the responses.
First of all, I'm absolutely stunned to the point of speechlessness. Cynique done read a BOOK! My, my what is this world coming to!! I should played the numbers today. I'm going to keep the smelling salts close by in case she wants to comment on another...dare I say it...BOOK! *smile*
Cynique: I wouldn't think that Jackson's sexuality would have anything to do with his proficiency in writing female characters. I do know that The View From Here if I didn't know Jackson was a man, I would have swore the author was a woman. That's some talent there.
Come to think of it, Eric Jerome Dickey's first book, Sister, Sister, I would have swore was written by a woman. When I first got the book and read it, I passed it around at work because my female friends wanted to see how a man could write three female characters without sounding like a man. He won them over with that book. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 10:39 am: |
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Well, Thumper, contrary to some people, I don't harbor the notion that the world is waiting for me to inform them every time I finish a book. Who cares, especially since I read mostly non-fiction nowadays and it's not always about AAs. Not surprising, that I really like how Troy has created another category for posters to this board.
Since Carmen, the Queen of Harlem, was such a diva, I still think the author's sexuality played a part in how well her flamboyance was depicited. His male character was even more telling. I found it hard to believe that a 21 year-old male with jumping hormones would respond the way he did in his sexual encounter. Just my opinion, babe. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 12:09 pm: |
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I agree with you, Cynique about gay male authors and their flair for writing females.
And as I said...Octavia Butler, who many regard as a decidely "asexual" person...has a special gift for writing male characters so well that you could swear that some of her books are written by men. Of course, she writes adventurous science fiction, so it's allowed there.
Now because I myself have a HUGE gay following--I often worry quite a bit about how I portray and realize "gay" characters in my works. Although my closest friend is a lesbian--I am not, despite what many of my fans think. I'm totally straight. So I still worry about being offensive or "stereotypical"...and I ALWAYS try to stick up for gay rights in my works, because my favorite Aunt back in Sudan (Auntie Ramah) was a lesbian. She being one of my ancestors, I like to honor her. And I have a gay brother, too, that I adore.
But I think you're right, Cynique.
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 02:18 pm: |
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Hellooooooo out there, Kola. |
Thumper
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 08:28 am: |
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Hello All,
Rewinding the tape. Cynique is Queen of Harlem the only book you read that allowed you to make such a sweeping generalization of gay male writers and their female characters? I suppose if a gay male writer writes a book with a decided masculine tone it would be considered a miracle or something? *eyebrow raised* That's painting with an awfully broad brush, ain't it?
Kola: How can Octavia Butler be "asexual" and write so well from a male point of view? Is that a contradiction? *eyebrow raised* Frankly, whether she is "asexual" or not ain't my business. It strikes me funny that you would repeat something that starts with "who many regard" when its so obvious you don't care what people think of you. Oh well, at least Octavia Butler has a following that is based on her short stories and books that we can actually pick up and read, go to the store and buy and read, or go to the library and check out and read, unlike some people I know. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 11:34 am: |
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Thumper,
In response to the question posed by the thread, I cited "The Queen of Harlem" as a case where I thought a male writer - for whatever reason - did a good job of portraying females. This observation was not meant to be derogatory, and I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that gay males would be adept at writing about women. E. Lynn Harris is good at it. Some women readers complain that straight male authors, even when they do a decent job of creating a female character, still tend to make these females react instead of act. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 01:26 pm: |
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Thumper, you might want to check out this web site to "remind yourself" why my books are out of print (I guess you didn't read the N.Y. Post reports?)
http://mirrormax.i8.com/whats_new.html
This September Thumper, I will be one of a few authors included in the short story anthology "Politically Inspired". Pulitizer prize nominee Dave Eggars, Best American Short Story winner Elizabeth Tallent and other top literary writers are contributing BRAND NEW stories to this collection. It should be very telling to you...that Miss Kola Boof was "selected" and asked to submitt a story (sight unseen) for inclusion with such an elite list of writers. My agent did not approach them--they approached me. Their editor is a HUGE fan of mines and said that I can write anything I want to. Unfortunately, because the book comes out in Sept.--I had only a week and a half to whip up a story.
Make a note of it.
As well...as soon as the white folks in N.Y. get over their fear of my image and controversy--there will be several Kola Boof books on the market. I've already turned down Random House (the biggest of the biggest)--that right there says a lot. And the one thing you've never heard my detractors say is that I can't write. You'll be giving me a good review, darling, when you feast your chops on "DIARY OF A LOST GIRL: Sweet Like Birth and No Regret".
P.S. I just got an email this morning from a group of black students at University of New Orleans PRAISING my book "Long Train". They want me to come and talk to them in person.
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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:33 pm: |
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Hello Kola,
Kola, as my mother would say, the proof is in the puttin'. So your book will be out when? *eyebrow raised* Surely to goodness you've gotten your galleys. And hip us again to the date of your book's publication? Don't bore me with all the mundane details of who you turned down and all that other who-shot-John stuff. Just tell me when the book, any one of them (I ain't picky), will be out, mail me an advance copy or something. Because bravado, like talk, is cheap...all day long. In other words, dearheart, put up or shut up. *eyebrow raised*
PS: Oh and could you please do me a favor and save me one your infamous long drawn out dramatic reply. I ain't gettin' any younger, and I'm trying to save memory space. OK? Cool. Thanks in advance. |
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