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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:58 pm: | 
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Hello All,
I was on such had such a good streak of good books that I knew it was going to end. Well, now it has. I just spent a half-hour of my life reading 30 pages of Benilde Little's new book Acting Out. This book sucks! I'm sorry, but it sucks! From the first sentence the vision that I was on an oil slick slide that descended into Hell, popped into my head and never left me as I continued reading. I was having severe How Stella Got Her Groove Back flash backs!! This woman named Ina is talking and talking and talking. I don't care that her husband left her. I don't care that she didn't like her mother. I DON'T CARE!! The book is narrated in the first person. And it's, it's like being stuck on a 16 hour Greyhound bus trip, sitting next to a person, who is running their mouth NON-STOP!! And then the person has the nerves to be BORING and the bus has the nerves to get a damn flat! I couldn't take it no mo'!! |
Crystal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 01:39 pm: |
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Well dang Thumper, tell us how you liked this book! LOL!
I read/skimmed this one. As I recall the only good spot was the wife/girlfriend confrontation on Christmas morning. I really didn't care about these folks either, the wife was boring, the husband was stupid, the mother was crazy and what was up with the neighbor: sure, just leave your kids at my house for days at a time while you lay around crying about that man.
I'm really tired of these super fine, super successful, rich, name dropping suburban families with cheating husbands and wives who don't know what they want books. If you didn't like this one stay away from A Taste of Reality by Kimberla Lawson Roby. Same story different suburb. |
K
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:22 am: |
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Roby's on my hate list too. In the first few chapters of any book with her name on it there will be name dropping galore. " She wore Gucci glasse as she cruised in her pearl white Lexus, with her Harvard MBA in hand, wearing Fendi pants to her two story home in XYZ affluent suburb..............." makes me want to gag! Did I mention her female charachters are always insucure and whinny .
Keep the faith. Good books are worth running into one that just stinks every once in a while. |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:34 pm: |
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Hello All,
Crystal: I skimmed the book too. When I got to page 6, I started flipping, looking to light on a spot where the book would "change" into something worthwhile. No such luck. But I was going to soldier on and try to get through the book anyway. I'd rather watch paint dry. The neighbor, I wonder what was up with that too, I didn't have enough of that wonder to finish the book.
K: I have that Roby book sitting on my To Read shelf too. I'm going to check it out. But, if it reads like you've indicated, I'm going to have to cut her too.
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yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 07:06 pm: |
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This is funny...it seems "the waiting to exhale" moment may be over....the books are marketed, it seems, to account the new black middle-class, but as a thread months ago comprehensively lamented, comtempory novels seem so superficial. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 07:41 pm: |
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I recall being GREATLY rebuked by lots of people on this board for making similar comments in the past about these same authors on this same exact subject.
As I recall...people were upset that since I wasn't born over here...I was putting down "their" people.
***Shaking my black, braided head.
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Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 08:01 pm: |
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What I've noticed as my agent is shopping my own books around now....is that EDITORS don't really read the books anymore.
They buy a concept...a quota amount of sex, face slaps, cuss-out scenes, tough clothes, jewelry and cars...traumatic scandal on page 198. THIS is how they approach AA fiction, especially.
It's becoming similar to the rap buiness. They basically want the flashiest, most shallow, most Money-Magnetizing CONCEPT book about "urban consumers" they can find...and that's what they push.
If "Waiting to Walk Dog" hits it big...then they rush out and look for 25 more versions of that same story. But are they actively also looking for another Stephen Carter or Bernice McFadden?
NO
The real black writers of today (many of them from prestigious Universities and English programs) do not get the attention that WHITE writers get in the least. More and more publishers want SLUSH...PULP FICTION for the black market.
One black female writer told me herself that her Editor has never ever changed a single word of what she wrote.
The publishing houses are the ones LOWERING the bar...and as you notice that the back book cover of virtually every new black writer says something like..."Reminiscent of Toni Morrison and Alice Walker"...."brings to mind James Baldwin"...
it shows their disrespect.
Think about it. Have you ever seen a Jackie Collins book with a blurb saying--"In the spirit of Sylvia Plath and Doris Lessing"...
or James Patterson or John Grisham compared to Faulker?
Nope.
But, anyway. Those of us who really appreciate the craft and who speak from some form of connectedness to the community's insanity will manage to get heard...although with flashy sensational image...I FEEL GUILTY when I see all the exceptionally talented Black writers out there who can't even land agents.
They haven't got breasts like mine to flag down the newspapers with.
So you see, it's a shameful affair really.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:01 am: |
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Kola:
Everything you said is true--and, though I would be the first to admit it, it is not all racial.
I remember the huge glut of spy books that came out after Ian Fleming hit it big with James Bond. The so called technothrillers after Tom Clancy made big. The glut of legal thrillers today.
These people are not in the art or idea business. They are in the move as many bundles of paper as you can business. Every now and then they throw a sop out to art but they are looking over their shoulders and at their jobs. No disrespect to Terry and the writers who are the ones they want black writers to write about--if they could get Terry to write a novel a week they probably wouldn't publish anybody else.
Okay, you have correctly diagnosed the situation.
What do we do about it? |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 11:48 am: |
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Hi Chris,
The only thing we can do about it I suppose is continue to actively support people like Colson Whitehead, Bernice McFadden, Paul Beatty--and the list goes on (including Kola).
We need to do the Motown thing and pool our talent and resources and start a really big publishing house. I myself, as soon as I get a goodsized advance, am planning to start a small imprint committed to publishing just 3 really good books a year. **The one major advantage that most of us black writers have is that we've been forced to develop very highly tuned "marketing" skills.
But you're right...in a capitalist business sense, there really are no concrete answers. The bottom line is always profit. And by the way...I do enjoy and respect Terry McMillan--it's just her CLONES that I find so annoying.
And they're just EVERYWHERE!
You can't even open a novel with a good sentence anymore...or have a level of "difficulty" for the reader to sharpen their teeth on without the Editors going: "Blacks don't read this kinda stuff."
And when the editors are BLACK and saying that crap--I just want to slap them right in the mouth!!
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Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 03:17 pm: |
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Kola,
How many Black editors have been "saying that crap" ... ? Identify them by name? |
Wanda Toby
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 04:55 pm: |
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ROTF, I am dying on the Terry Clones. lol
Kola, you are not lying about that. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 05:10 pm: |
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Anonymous--
black editors are the main ones who say it...because they have to get their White Board of Green Lighters to back whatever titles they do pick. And the whites want their "stereotype" of what a black book is...which is usually a very limited crop.
I won't name the BAD black editors...but I will mention the "good ones" that I think are legitimately Artist-driven...and that would be Monique Patterson at St. Martin's Press, Errol McDonald at Random House (although he's a snob and a sexist bougie-boy)...and Uh...well,
there's lots of black book editors nowadays at the BLACK IMPRINTS...looking for books that 5th graders can read (because they claim that most black people can't read on a higher level--"so, Kola make the paragraphs a little less poetic"--and put in more sex--who makes the character's clothes? Don't the men know any Slang language? Why are they meeting at a saxophone recital?)....looking for books that do NOTHING to honor or enlighten the community...looking for books that degrade black women's spirits and lean towards "conservatism" rather than freedom of expression and desire for "Knowledge" (knowledge being that which can only be attained by asking questions...even if one has to get up in GOD Almighty's face and ask a few questions...which black folks really need to start doing).
And in my case...Editors (including black editors) become agitated that the story is so thrilling and the language is so rich...and yet....there's not a single white character in the book. Where are the nice, good, well meaning white people for whom we be LOST without?
Well...they're not in Kola Boof's books. And this goes against their RULE of diversity...but then, one of idols..Egyptian womanist writer Nawaal El Sadawii said it best..."The only thing diversity does is divides us from our own people."
Amen.
My books bring black people TOGETHER. I don't give a damn about being friends with some two-faced white lady or having some white man tell me that he thinks I'm cute. I come from Sudan..I am a firm believer in the tribe, the children, the ancestors--the man and the woman finding true love by giving birth to their own images.
In my books, few people are rich...the pretty women are less fascinating than the idealistic, adventurous women...the men get bashed, sure (because Black men deserve it!!!), but they also get plenty of LOVE, too...my books Uplift and inspire Black people to BE BLACK, to embrace it and to acknowledge our natural place in the scheme of things.
At this moment...I'm leaning towards signing with Harper Collins (my memoirs book "Diary of a Lost Girl")..because more than anything, I want to tell my own story in my own voice...without trying to be LIKED. I really want to be different from everyone else. My agents are very disappointed that I'm interested in Editorial control and "marketing input"....far more than I'm interested in money. I have been rejected by Simon and Shuster (because of editorial disagreements) and I myself turned down Random House--this morning. So we're losing big bucks, because of my principles--but I don't care--I'd rather be ABOUT something and leave behind work that can have social and artistic significance 100 years from now. Otherwise, I'm not helping my people.
I want a career and a platform...not just a HIT book.
Publishers don't understand--I CAME TO STAY and to start trouble.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:41 am: |
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Kola:
I have to take my hat off to you. It's awful rough to refuse what Kalamu Ya Salaam calls "the golden carrot" and stand on principal especially in the book business.
I can see another reason why the editors might want white characters--it has to do with the vicarious participation that some readers find with books--the readers imagine they are Conan the Barbarian, or the Frodo Baggins, or the sheriff of Cochise and few white readers are willing to see themselves as black characters, hence they may want you to include them also as a way to draw the reader in. I know you are going to say that is stupid and barbaric and narrow minded of them to close themselves off from experiencing the life experiences of someone from another walk of life--if I can dig Cyrano De Bergerac, which is set in l7th Century France and has not one black character in it (it is one of my favorite plays and movies--the 1950 version with Jose Ferrer is the one I'm talking about) why can't a European or WASP want to walk in the shoes of a Kola Boof? And you know something, this might just be the conceit of those particular editors--A white author, Ben Bova, said that those editors have a tendency to decide what the public wants, which is why so many of the books they think will be great die the death (he said they tend to think everyone is like New Yorkers)--maybe just maybe there are a lot of readers who would like to be a Kola character. A lot of white folks have read "Autobiography of Malcolm X"--though it may be for the sensational parts.
This also leads us into a discussion of why a book like that or MONSTER, by Sanyika Shakur, would be a hit among white readers--this is the kind of vicarious participation that they want to experience, which is chilling.
Maybe what you need to do is self publish or go to a black publishing house. Once the big boys see you got sales they will want to jump on the bandwagon. See what happened with Zane.
I tell you one thing--I am rather anxious now to read your books and see what it is that is driving all these people crazy. If it drives them crazy then I GOTS to like it.
By the way, your tribal concept is interesting. I kind of think that instinctively the hiphop generation, the kids picked that up, with all their gang loyalty and identification with the hood. It is rather fascinating (if the effects weren't so deadly) how they have instinctively formed these sort of tribal associations with their own dress, talk, signals, writing and language. I have a poem I have been working on off and on about that, called "It's TRIBE time!"
I think it has good as well as bad implications.
Chris
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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
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Hello All,
I can't dispute any of what's been said on the thread. I do wish that books could be more like movie credits. At the end of the book, there's the author's name and his editor's. True, many will mention their editor in the acknowledgement, but not all. I want to know all of the participating parties that produce the books I read...especially the bad ones! Kola, if you wouldn't mind, if you can't name the bad editors personally, could you tell us the books they edited, and we'll take it from there. I know in the years that I've been doing this, the number of black editors have increased. The numbers could be larger. But the meat of the casserole is still the matter of good writing versus sh-t. Now, since I've already called out Acting Out, I'll stay with that one. Now, I don't know who the editor on that one was but he/she should be shame and begging for forgiveness.
Finally, who's to blame for a bad book? The author? The editor? The publishing company? |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:00 pm: |
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Thanks CHRIS!!
I can't post too much....because Thomas has me on MUTE. He might check the board to see if I'm "runn'n my mouth".
But I did want you to know...Warner Books wanted my manuscript recently, but check this out...
Because they're owned by Jews and predominately run by Jews...they decided that my background being so ANTI-ARAB...they couldn't publish my memoirs, because it would look like a Jewish Media company being racist against Arabs.
So I catch hell from all sides. Black women are embarrassed because I'm topless on the back of the books and embracing a Nile river woman's image of black female sexuality--which is quite different than American victorian principles, because we link sex to religion and believe that the female MUST have sexual power within in the society in order for nature to flourish. AA women editors see this as "provocative" and hoochie-like....when really, it's more Goddess-like.
Then the White men don't like my command of Nubian, Cushitic, Nilotic Hebrew and Egyptian history. My father was an archeologist--this stuff was our way of life!!
I speak Arabic, Nilotic Hebrew (black Jewish language), some Nobbin (Nubian), decent English, some German, some French and then my birth mother's language, Timas dialect (Oromo).
I know my people's history--at least our Africoid/Cushitic version of it. I write about it casually within my work and White Men don't like that--because it portrays Black men as RULERS, conquerors, etc...but portrays White men as virtually invisible.
God, pray Thomas doesn't come in here and read this!! That'll be my ass.
Anyway. American ARABS and Muslims don't like that I'm exposing their evil atrocities against Blacks in North Africa (which has been going a thousand years). As a former Muslim...who now advises women to start our own Women's Religion and to return to the bare breast sacrament...this particularly infuriates Muslims...because the whole Muslim religion (to me) caters to men and is all about subjugation of women and children. Back home, Chris...the men have to be served meals and eat first--then the women and children. Men and women must eat separately. My Egyptian father risked arrest many times for teaching me how to build boats and for having me EAT WITH HIM!! He could have got 10 years in prison for that!! So I expose this stupid men's religion that stones women in the streets and identifies us as UNCLEAN.
And then the Black men are angry with me, because I am saying in my work....that Black men have not been good to black women and that they don't deserve our loyalty. I speak about my vagina being Infibulated (for the African man's standard of purity)...but all this does is create grown women who are like 12 year olds down there. It is pleasure for the men...and misery and torture for us females. Can you imagine what trouble I had giving birth to my two sons? And even after having babies, PAIN is still an intricate part of my sexual experience. Would you want this done to your daughter, Chris? It should be abolished!! And yes...I have a wonderful Black man who gave me two heroic black sons....but I'm still wise enough to know that in general...the Black Man has BETRAYED US...like
most African women...I cannot forget that he sold our children away...when what we should have done is fought the Arabs and Whites to the death. Now look at how divided our African family is. We've been OBLITERATED and separated and scattered all over the world!! We have people like YUKIO running around thinking that this breakdown of our natural family....is "fluid progress"...instead of Caucasoids destroying the African race.
Then the White women don't like that I call them ("two-faced White bitches") in my books. They want me to write that B.S. about us being sisters--but with sisters like them, who needs AIDS?
And the Whites don't like being called Caucasoids--but come on, that's their name. Just as I am Nilotic--the mother of the Negroes (Nilotic race being the parent of the Negroid race). These distinctions are TRUE.
Why is Sickle Cell a Negroid disease...and Polecythemia a Greek Only disease? By the way, Chris...I have both sickle cell trait and polecythemia (a Greek disease that "Nilotic" blacks can have, but not Negroes). BUT then the Arabs and Whites get lice. These racial distinctions are TRUE.
Black men have, by ratio, a much larger penis than all other race of men (except the Arab--who is the direct son of African slave women). This is the reason why...the Whites created "CLOTHING". Because they returned to Africa and took one look at our black men and decided everyone should be covered up. Not to mention--where they lived, it was very cold.
And what about the ancient Egyptians...who believed that eating the fat of lions could help them grow hair (the early Egyptians invented "the wig" and both males and females kept their heads shaved bald and wore elaborate wigs and headdresses--notice in the cartoon, PRINCE OF EGYPT, the boys take their wigs off). How could they not have been Black Africans?
You Black Americans didn't invent the straightening comb. EGYPTIAN WOMEN DID!!
And then...there's the hatred of Darkskinned black women--be of course, she is the root of the Black Tree. She is what MAKES US Black...so we defile her, lie on her and EXCLUDE her, because we're reaching for those light enough to make our blood less and less black. The tragedy is...we have convinced her that she is worthless and nothing at all.
More than anywhere else in the world...this is the mark of shame against Black American women. They are the most unprotected, despised and mistreated women on planet Earth. I've lived here (off and on) 20 years, so I've seen it!
Black American society deliberately and unmercifully destroys and discriminates against the dark black female. A white woman is more welcome in black homes...than a Blue Black woman (who is the motherseed of the human race).
CHRIS, these just few of the minor reasons that editors have a problem with me.
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Lily White
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:21 pm: |
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Thumper--this is Kola.
I had to post under that name, because Thomas is going to kill me for being in here talking to much, so that name should throw him off if he comes and checks.
There's about 30 to 40 black editors now (because of the Black imprints that have popped up). Out of 30 to 40...I told you Monique at St. Martin's Press...Erroll (with his snobby, sexist behind) at Random House and since she's so sweet, Maleika Adero at Simon and Shuster are the good ones.
Brigitte Smith is the black woman at Simon and Shuster who turned down my autobiography--because she wanted the entire book to be about the 6 months I knew Osama Bin Laden (scrap everything else). I was told, point blank, "Elaborate on the sex scenes. Those scenes are fascinating. You and Osama were pretty hot, Kola." **In all fairness, this message was "relayed" to me by third party and not directly from Smith's own mouth. But it's that kind of tacky "exploitation" of what is otherwise a very powerful, well written and meaningful memoir...that highlights the editor's pressure to "SELL BOOKS...even if it gives the black community "trash" instead of SUBSTANCE."
The larger problem, in general, with books like ACTING OUT (from a white female editor) and Kimberla Roby's books...is that once you have a name...editors don't read the actual books. They just want a page detailing the HOOK and the CONCEPT, ie......[Waiting to Exhale meets Gilligan's Island]...it really is that pedantic.
I've complained to my agents about the fact that in discussions of Reprinting my hit "Long Train"---the editors didn't have a clue what was in the book. My upcoming novel, "Virgins In the Beehive" (the story about 3 black girls who discover they're biological sisters and decide to start their own religion)...is really causing problems..because although they recognize good writing, good intonation, good sentence structure and fresh characterizations...the villains in the book are WHITE (the black mama shoot down the court Judges in cold blood)...
Trust me Thumper. After reading all my erratic, kitchen-chit-chat posts...you will be stunned to read my books and see that I'm just being Kola when I post. My books are totally different than what I post here...but the POLITICS are the same.
Editors don't read as much anymore--don't challenge the black writers as much. You'll notice the amateurish put-together of some of the books from even the big houses nowadays.
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Inthebiz
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 03:13 pm: |
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Actually the editor of Benilde Little is a white male.
I am in the business and know several editors and I've never heard of anyone rejecting a novel because it didn't have enough white characters.
And I don't know of any editors who want dumbed-down books aimed for their readers. None. It sounds like Kola just met up with some unfortunate people, but they shouldn't be used to represent the majority of AA editors. She mentioned three that she likes. I can name five more good ones who publish quality work. And then I can mention some white editors who publish crap, and others who publish quality work. That's just the way the world is. It isn't based on some kind of agenda to not bring good, intelligent work to black readers.
On their own, black readers are picking up B-More Careful and True to the Game in droves. These books are entertaining, but not great literature. And that is okay -- it takes all kinds to make a literary world. And then there are the Victor LaVelles and Maxine Clairs being published -- good books but not with wide readerships. They deserve larger audiences, but just as with mainstream audiences, commercial works -- the E. Lynn Harrises and E.J. Dickeys sell better. And that is just how it is.
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Whisper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 04:57 pm: |
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In the Biz--(this is Kola)
When we submitted by memoirs book to Random House...the comment was made that it would be much more "marketable"...if I had been adopted by White Americans instead of "Black" Americans.
I was asked...do you have close White friends or relatives who could be focused on in the book as helping you fit into American culture?
Nope. Sorry. Grew up raised by AAs in a D.C. ghetto--LOVED it.
Of course, since it's real life, we can't make character changes--
but you get my point.
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InPrint
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 07:37 pm: |
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Look, I'm another cat in the biz. I think part of the confusion on the part of writers about what the industry wants is that editors lie about why they turn books down.
Instead of saying:
"Your prose is clunky, your story implausable and your characters weakly defined."
What they say is:
"Your book's too militant for the market right now."
No editor is going to pass on a book they think is great. Period. What happens is, instead of telling you they think you suck, they come up with a lie. Particular in the black books world, since we all run into each other and nobody wants a fist fight at the Harlem Book Fair. The way to get past this is not by selling out or getting bitter, but by writing a book so good they can't say no.
Thump-a-Dump,
Having editors names listed wouldn't help much. Sometimes they have major control over every line. Sometimes, from my experience, they change next to nothing.
Black pop fiction is just that. Terri's children are on the same level of Daniel Steele, Jackie Collins, etc. The problem comes when they (or we) try to pretend it's literature. It doesn't have to be, though. A tub of movie popcorn isn't a gourmet meal but it is fun to eat, right?
As for who's responsible, I blame Omar Tyree. |
Whisper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 08:32 pm: |
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InPrint Said:
No editor is going to pass on a book they think is great. Period.
Kola Boof says:
You're full of it. **Just about every great classic in literature was turned down by 5 to 7 houses before finding the editor who CARED.
Beth DeGuzman at Warner Books LOVED my book "Diary of a Lost Girl". But the company politicos were frightened of what could be the consequences. AMIRI BARAKA would be at a major house with no problem if your assertion was true.
Even if an editor LOVES your book...they have to get someone else in the company behind it. With anything that's controversial and UNPROVEN or too new...the person's colleagues may insist that it's too risky.
GREAT classics of Afro-American literature can go unpublished for many years. It took Bernice McFadden "forever" to get her fantastic books published...because editors were too lazy to read the words of an UNKNOWN muse.
Editors are sticklers for "you must have an agent" and you must have been published before. As Toni Morrison has intimated...it's not like in her day when she was coming up and Editors would have you keep the entire story...but Re-Structure the entire story (which is what should have happened with Benilde Little...someone should have said: "This is boring as hell--go back and write it in such a way that people wanna read it!")
I'm not saying the business is totally horrible. Of course it's not. But just like the music business and the movie business...those who "pick" the material that speaks to Black audiences--very often go for the lowest quality and they train black audiences to be "annoyed" by anything that makes them THINK.
Rappers like The Roots will tell you this. Intelligent filmmakers like Julie Dash and Carl Franklin will tell you this. TONS of black authors know this.
I was asked last month if I could whip a novel about a black female pop singer on drugs and married to an abusive husband.
Many of the novels that we read from blacks, especially the women...are often PITCHED by the editors themselves.
I kid you not.
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Whisper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 08:41 pm: |
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Also, In Print:
My book "Diary" has only been FOR SALE for 10 weeks.
I've had offers from Random House, S&S and Harper Collins. I expect to have 2 other offers on the table soon.
My problem is that I want my book to keep its Nile River blackness (something that's never been displayed in the media before) and represent MY LIFE...
I'm a very conscious woman, yes. But I'm coming through nontheless.
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Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 09:11 pm: |
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Lily White posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:21 pm:
Thumper--this is Kola.
I had to post under that name, because Thomas is going to kill me for being in here talking to much, so that name should throw him off if he comes and checks.
Kola, it doesn't matter if you keep changing your moniker on the board, especially if in every post you cite your to-be-released book by it's title or write, "this is Kola".
But I am sure you know this already.  |
Lily White
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 09:44 pm: |
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Anonymous,
He's a guy type of man. He just looks at the front board to see if Kola is on there
and then he scans down the list to see if Kola posted anything.
He would never read the actual posts. He might not even come in here..but in case he does with his nosy self.
I live under federal protection from the State Department right now...so my children and I are virtually on house arrest.
There's just nothing to do all day but read books, write books and check my email. I'm miserable and I can't go anywhere. It's fun to talk to the outside world. I don't feel like being "mysterious Kola". I'm a real person. I'm a writer for goodness sakes, not a movie star.
Although, Thomas just thinks I have a big mouth and should shut up and write books and be out of sight. He's such a bossy man, but I love him. He's sweet and he loves my cooking.
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InPrint
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:13 pm: |
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Kola Boof says:
You're full of it. **Just about every great classic in literature was turned down by 5 to 7 houses before finding the editor who CARED.
InPrint declares:
Empress Kola, you've just proven my point. When an editor really CARES, they make an offer. When they say they're being held back by lack of house support, what they're not adding is "...and I don't feel strongly enough to take the risk on it on my own." Editors who truly love a manuscript make an offer- maybe a low one since it comes out of their private funds, but an offer is an offer.
As you've pointed out, so many have absolutely loved your work and made offers in accordance, so you see what I mean.
But no author should delude themself that their artistry is being held from the world by mere politics. The Ecstatic was just shortlisted for the PEN/Faulker and it has no major white characters and the whites who do appear are presented negatively. It also happens to be a brilliant artistic creation, which is why it was bought (by a black editor). Be empowered by this fact. You have no control over the racist editors of the world, but you do have some control over how much you can improve as a writer.
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Editor In Chief
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:45 pm: |
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InPrint, (it's Kola)
I apologize to you. I didn't mean to say "you're full of it". Please accept my apology.
I respect your opinion. Thanks for sharing. |
123
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 12:17 am: |
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Kola,
You should pay Thumper, Troy or somebody for all the free press you give yourself via this site. |
Kola
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 01:34 am: |
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123
Actually,
I've given this site just as much free press as it has given me.
You might ask Troy about that.
I've been a HUGE promoter and supporter of this site.
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about...and if that was your way of asking me to post here...then have the courage to use your own name..and just know that I'll wait for Troy Johnson to disinvite me...
AND NOT YOU.
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Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 07:21 am: |
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Hello 123,
I was thinking the same, no matter the topic of discussion, Kola at some point, will bring up the title of her books. It's one thing to come to the board and announce the name of one's new book but it's quite another that every discussion that person participates in, the titles of their own books makes it way into the discussion.
Susan |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:25 am: |
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Thumper...did you read her other book Good Hair? If so, how did you feel about that one? It's been awhile, but I had problems getting past the first chapter or two of Good Hair. It was the first book that I recall not finishing...Ugly Ways was the second.
I've heard good things about Acting Out (prior to your dislike of it) and had planned to read it later this year.
Has anyone else read it and have comments?
-Tee
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 12:01 pm: |
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Inthebiz:
A couple of years ago Publisher's Weekly had an article about blacks in the publishing business. I noted the names mentioned, and sent them query letters regarding a novel I wrote.
Those that wrote back told me that they had to pass my query on to a colleague, who I assume was white.
Soon thereafter I read another article by Marie Brown that stated that the publishing biz was pushing all these blacks forward as evidence that they had black participation but that few if any of them had any power, which explained what happened.
If you are Inthebiz you have to toe the company line even though you are anonymous here. Iunderstand that. When in Rome. Ms. Kola may be a little extreme, but she is not far off the mark on what she said about white people recoiling from something that is too black. We can use our experience in the world guess how they approach blackness: white folks pass on making money everyday to avoid being around black people. |
Better Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 01:30 pm: |
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SUSAN--
You failed to mention a few things in all your arrogant stupidity.
1) In the 40 or so radio interviews that Kola Boof (that would be me) gave in the last 5 months--she almost always mentioned the owner of this site and directed listeners to check out aalbc.com
2) When I was featured in the NEW YORK TIMES, I had them to contact the owner of this site and interview HIM as well.
3) All of the Kola Boof books that were sold at this site...were FREE of charge to the owner of this site, because Kola is a believer in supporting her own community and helping those who help the community.
4) When the owner of this site needed people to rally and support a friend's magazine...Kola Boof took out an advertisement in that magazine to support that friend of the friend of the owner of THIS site.
5) There are currently NO Kola Boof books in print. So exactly what is she promoting?
6) This web site (aalbc.com) is featured heavily in my upcoming memoirs book. Troy Johnson is featured in my "black men I love" essay...Thumper is mentioned as a notable rising book critic THAT BLACK FOLKS CAN TRUST....and the site itself is mentioned as a place where I burned up some of the long hours being on lockdown in my own house under "protection" from the State Department.
7) THIS SITE...was the first place in America (along with college bookstores) to sell Kola Boof books. That is why it has special significance for me. I am an African--we believe in "HOME" as a necessary concept. This is my starting place--so I come here (celebrity or not) and make myself at home and I FIERCELY support and promote this site. I love it.
So don't you dare come here and intimate that I'm not welcome to post along with everyone else...as a regular person. IT JUST SO HAPPENS...that they keep bringing up topics of which my personal experiences are the best way to illustrate what I'm saying. I'm writer...therefore when they bring up editors at publishing houses...I can best illustrate the topic by using my own life experiences.
Intelligent, knowledge-seeking people would appreciate that kind of candor...rather than being JEALOUS and PETTY.
I have offered other writers on this board...to show their work to my AGENT!! (as a friend would do to help another friend).
I am so sick of people like you with your ignorant blind spots trying to portray me as some mean, nasty UNWELCOMED guest.
When Troy Johnson or Thumper tells me--"Kola get off my site!"--then you'll never hear from me again. Until then...BITE ME.
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Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 03:49 pm: |
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Kola--
I think we had this problem before on an earlier post. I don't think Susan nor 123 mean any harm but they're objecting to the same issues discussed previously...that somehow when you read the entire post it becomes less about the topic at hand and more about your titles or the problems you've faced promotiing/publishing/gaining respect for your work. It sounds like you've had quite the battle but if you look back over the postings it's very "Kola-centric". No problem with that at all, do your thing, but your responding posts reads a little like an attack. Glad to see you back, always hot when you're here.
In the Biz (and other industry folk)---
I have to agree that when an editor really loves a book they move heaven and earth to get it to their publishing house. I worked as both an agents assistant, and at a publishing house and most of the time the reasons stated for rejection are never the "real" reason. Honestly, editors would face lawsuits if writers knew some of the real reasons. I've sat in on plenty of agency meetings and acquisiton meetings and I've never heard the "not black enough" argument. Quite frankly, they are plenty of books coming down the pipe (Terry's stepchildren) that fill that void so it's easy enough to move on to the next without twisting another project into that form.
Thumper--
A big problem (in my opinion) with editors is that quite a few of them are marketing or numbers crunchers without any real editorial or literary experience. It's unfortunate but seems to be the nature of the beast whether it's Black, White or Puerto Rican (to paraphrase Prince) and we see it in published books. I think the new breed of editor ( not all ) are satisfied if the story is there and the plot moves and less interested in whether the language is beautiful, the writer is saying something new or if the characters are real and true enough to break your heart. The equivalent goes on in music and film but we have to hope that the cream will continue to rise even if they have to fight like a mongoose to get there.
Peace
Bayou Lights |
KOLA
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 05:31 pm: |
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Bayou,
remind me someday
to tell you about the time I looked into the heart of an artichoke.
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Eula Mae
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 05:42 pm: |
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This thread is just tickling me to death.
Bayou you have to accept that Kola is the black Erica Kane. That way you just giggle and take it better. She don't mean no harm. She think she such a good friend to everybody.
Like Erica Kane, she can't see what a vane, scheming hilarious woman she is. I wonder if she'll still be showing off those breasts once they starts to droop. If they're even real.
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Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 06:36 pm: |
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Kola,
You more than proved my point. Yet another post from you hyping your books and/or yourself. *LOL*
I don't recall anyone asking or demanding or even
suggesting that you not post. And, I know for a fact, I didn't. Reading is really fundamental, eh? I along with another just made mention of the number times you never fail to mention your books (those published or those yet published, so how's that?) regardless of the topic of conversation. You can mention all the life experiences you like to illustrate any point you which to prove but must you also mention the title of your books in every message thread. You call it candor, and I call it shameless and overzealous self-promotion. So, we can agree to disagree on this matter.
And, as far as the name calling, stick and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me. *LOL* You really need to get over yourself. As soon as anyone post anything contrary to what you say, you start calling them names or categorizing them as "jealous and petty" or yell they "don't know what the hell they are talking about" then without fail, you'll come back to the board with cries of victimization, "woe is me 'cause I's a strong Black woman and everybody is hatin' on me."
Time to develop a new marketing plan, this one played a while back.
Susan
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Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:41 pm: |
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Susan,
that's twice you ignored the great deal of FREE promotion that I give to this web site and all the financial and public contributions that I have made...but you complain that I mention titles of my books.
And I suggest that you and Bayou and whoever else has a problem with Kola just not read my posts or respond to me if you don't like them.
You all seem to have a double standard when it comes to me. No matter what I say or do--you've been rude, nasty and SELECTIVE towards me every since I came here. But then someone else does something similar and you don't SHUN or turn your lima bean noses up at them.
It bothers you so much that I would mention one of my books...but not whether another poster would discuss my breasts being real or fake or what other nasty words she had for me.
The name calling has ALWAYS been from you all...you started it, you keep it going and I'll finish it.
You, Bayou, Linda, 123 and others can't stand me--GOOD. Don't read my posts. I can't stand you two faced snot barrons either!
DO NOT SPEAK TO ME. It's that simple. And if it makes you feel better to call me Erica Kane, Empress, LIAR, African girl on a Crusade, Strong Black Woman and all the other meanspirited, chilly CYNICAL titles you've come up with...then get in line.
The reason we don't get along...is YOUR FAULT.
Bunch of pretentious, boring switchboard operators!!
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Bayou Lights
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:32 pm: |
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Just got "Acting Out" from the library. I ordered the book before I read this thread. I read her first book, and thought it was entertaining as a "beach read" but I missed her second. I'll post here after I read it. I do remember that her first novel reminded me of the Ivy League mystery series. Anyone remember the author of those titles? I know she wrote one about Harvard and Yale and should probably have a third due soon.
Thumper---
Your honesty is always appreciated. What is Ms. Little's background? Was she a journalist, etc? Anyway, I'll let you know what I think.
Peace,
Bayou |
123
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:34 pm: |
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Tsk, Tsk, Tsk....... fine take your toys and go home then! No not really please come back....LOL I think Lights is a little more articulate than I am. You always have an exciting perspective to bring to the board but having the Boof promotion machine going 24/7 is kind of frustrating.
As for the topic at hand. I agree with Thumper It's not all meant to be high art. |
Susan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:02 pm: |
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Kola,
Talk of selective reading. Okay, whateva.
I read your comments, the first time, about all this "free" advertising you give out about Troy's board. So 'cause you think you tell the world about this board that you should come here and mention the names of your books in every post? If so, then it takes a snot faced baron to know one. *LOL*
Why can't you be the one and ignore posts? You have this same option that you trying to advise others to take. So, got a problem with my posts, don't repond to them. You post on this board, I am free to respond or not respond, as *I* see fit. And, you so can you.
However, Thumper, thanks for the heads up. This is one less book to add to my TBR pile.
Susan
P.S. I am not into discussing your body parts or anyone else's, for that matter, on this board. It's just that simple. See, it ain't always about you.
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NYU Dog
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:20 pm: |
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Kola
I actually only started checking these boards "regularly" because of your posts. I think you're entertaining and I get a thrill out of how you just tell it like it is. You really liven up the board. I had heard from some friends at school that you actually drop in here and thought it was pretty cool when I saw that it was true. I go to NYU. We read your book "Long Train" in Post Colonial Afro-World Lit last year. Your good friend Professor Bell (who teaches at NYU) had said in the N.Y. Times what an important writer he thinks you are. My class certainly agreed.
As for comments on this particular board, I do recall someone posting jokes about the "white girl" wig they accused you of wearing and impolite comments about your breasts and your "motives" for being a writer. I do often get the sense that some of the posters here just plain don't like you and not for anything you've done to anybody. They ask questions and then they don't want the answers. I also heard at a bookstore function about the Connie Briscoe comments that were made about you. I think she's just ill informed about your actual work.
I don't find your posts to be self-promoting at all Ms. Boof This is a literary discussion board and you're a published author who is moderately well known in the African American community if nowhere else. I think your posts are very appropriate and think these people like Susan, Bayou Lights and 123 are just being frigid.
Always good to have you Kola. I look forward to following your career.
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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:27 pm: |
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Hello All,
Let's not get confused as to what type of discussion board this is. It's not a place to get personal with anyone because they disagree with what you have to say. This is a discussion board for ADULTS. I ain't gettin' paid to babysit. So folks telling other people to "bite me" and who's breasts are sloppy and hanging, ain't the type of party I'm trying to throw. Let's not get it twisted. Take the personal stuff, name calling, mud slinging off my board. You can email each other till the cows come home with a hang over, but it won't be done here. *eyebrow raised*
Bayou Lights: Little's first book was Good Hair, which I thought was OK. It wasn't a book that I would spend a good night sleep reading. Her second book was The Itch. I hated that book so much that I gave my copy away to somebody I couldn't stand. I have to disagree with you comparing Little's books to that of the Ivy League series which was written by Pamela Thomas-Graham, I believe. I love both of those books!!! I wonder what happen to the author because after those two books, nothing happened. Let me know what you thinkg about Acting Out.
123: Hello, how are you doing? *smile* You're correct. It's not all meant to be high art. There's plenty of room for everyone. And everyone should try to read a little bit of everything. There's so much good writing, good books out here, it's a shame to limit yourself to just one type of book.
Kola: If you can't take criticism, you is in the wrong business. For real. A point has been brought to the table. I've told other authors before, so you are not the first, but this board is for READERS! It is not a board where the author gets to beat up, or berate anyone for expressing their opinion, especially if it is done in a respectful manner. Why constantly promote books that haven't been published? It's a valid question. It was raised respectfully. You are in a field where you will be constantly criticized. If you can't handle this little bit that's being thrown at you on this board, you're in for a world of hurt, my dear. It's all about growing a thick skin. That's part of the baggage that goes with being a writer. |
Kola Boof
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 11:59 pm: |
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Well here we go again, Thumper.
You manage...as usual...to rebuke NO ONE ELSE...but mean evil, disrespectful Kola.
Whose skin by the way, is a lot thicker than your head.
Of course, I never accused anyone of wear'n wigs or having fake breasts...as your READERS accused me. Nor have I called them liars, asked them not to post or told them HOW to write their opinions.
I treated your readers...with the same hand they treated me with...but you keep rebuking me alone as if I'm here causing some kind of problem.
Of which I won't be anymore.
I sincerely apologize to everyone on this board for being so disruptive and "annoying".
People...PLEASE do not continue to send me your emails telling me what you think of me. I already know.
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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 02:34 pm: |
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Hello All,
Kola: I'm only going to say this one more time for the people sitting in the back and that's it. I wasn't picking on you. And if you believe that, you're sking ain't as thick as you think it is. What I gave you was a bit of knowledge for you to take heed. Writers will get criticized. Reviews, hopefully, will be written of your work and you will be critised. That's part of being a published author. If you can't take criticism, don't seek publication. It's just that simple. If the New York Times published a bad review of your book, what are you going to do? Hold a picket line of one outside their door? If I wrote a negative review of your work, what will you do? Break my keyboard? Let's be real for a minute. I started this thread with a negative opinion of Benilde Little's book. You don't see Little on here raising all types of hell, do you? It's part of the business. You're either going to be professional or not. Every writer I heard of was criticized for something or the other. This site is criticized all the time. I get negative criticism every day. You don't see me tripping over it. Not saying that I don't, but you wouldn't know it, because you don't see it. Now, I'm going to tell you about a gracious author, Venise Berry. I doggged out her last novel. Not long after that I ran into her. Gloria Mallett introduced us and Berry was wonderful. She don't like my review, which was natural, but she was nice, polite and gracious. I didn't like that book, but I can invite her and her husband to dinner. When I went to the Harlem Book Fair last year, a number of people came up to me and told me that they didn't like some of my reviews. I didn't get huffy or upset. I was thankful, and am still thankful that I'm being read at all. Any writer with a lick of sense in their head will be grateful to be read PERIOD. There are too many books out here for people to read for any author to be arrogant. And no matter what the publishing companies say, for the majority of people, it's not the ads, its not the movies, it's not the PR that gets an author over. It's word of mouth. Word of mouth can either crown you king or it can bury you and piss on your grave. Now what kind of word of mouth do you think you're generating? You can either be classy or trashy. I'm done with the lesson for today. As my fifth grade teacher Miss McClure use to tell me, "a word to the wise is sufficient". |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 06:45 pm: |
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Hello Thump
I am so glad you stepped in and laid down a little law. It wasn't the chastising of anyone in particular that caught my eye, it was the simple fact that you disagreed with the onslaunts and direction in which the board seemed to be heading.
Over the last 4+ years, as you know, my wife and I have visited this site with great pleasure. It's our home, you and the other regulars are like family. You, Claxton, Sis. E, T-bone; Soul Sister, Chris and the other old timers were there when Ann and I found out about her illness and prayed along with us. The board has always been a place where we could go to share a few laughs and get the latest gossip and info on the literary front. There was a few squabbles, oh yeah, but they faded away. Anyway, Ann is not doing so well as of late and she's down most of the time. I've been visiting the site as I've done every day for the last four plus years looking for something to add to her day . Yesterday after coming up from my computer room, Ann as usual, asked me what I found and what was being discussed on the board. All I could tell her was the same ol' people are still aurguing about the same ol' thing. She asked me what it was and I said "nothing", she looked a little sad and so was I. Anyway Thump, we'll keep visiting and hoping. Thanks for being here.
Carey |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 08:38 pm: |
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Hello Carey,
You know Miss Ann is my girl. Here I thought I had finally been able to hit her stride and finally keep up with her by reading a book a day. She's trying to psyche me out ain't she? *smile* I wish you both the best. I'll keep you both in my prayers! Hit me at my email address. |
Sis E
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:59 am: |
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Hi Bro. Thump,Bro. Carey, Sis Ann, and all,
Happy Easter to everybody, first!
And next, I look forward to visiting your discussion boards and gaining great (and sometimes otherwise) good vibes, finding out about books, giving shout-outs to folks like you Bro. Carey and you, Sis Ann, but lately it's been kind of hard, you know?
So I, too, appreciate your wisdom, Bro. Thump, in letting it be known once again that this is a dignified and wonderful discussion/meeting place where ADULTS can come together and talk about that which interests and connects us all -- primarily books and folks we love and respect.
BTW, my books get criticised, too, which to me means that I should spend more time working to improve the quality of the next one. :-)
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sisgal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 10:20 am: |
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Carey,
Hello. I will keep you and Ann in my prayers as well. Miss reading you on the board, but like you, i'm always around.
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Linda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 02:37 pm: |
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Carey and Ann
You know you are my favorites and I hope you will soon find the board not so heated and soon returned to it's normal chipper self...chucked with tidbits for you to enjoy. You are both in my prayers. LOL |
Carey
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 05:31 pm: |
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Thank you all!!!
Hey Sisgal, I see you're still here. It's always good to hear from you.
Linda, did I miss something? I noticed you laughed in your post?
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Linda
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:02 am: |
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Just grinning at how good God is and how you and Miss Ann are still two of the few sane people left on this board that I just love to death. *smile* |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 11:04 am: |
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Sane people are the rule not the exception on this board, whether you like them or not. |
Tee C. Royal
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 11:41 am: |
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Hey Carey, sorry I missed the initial post about Ann...I was trying to stay out of the debate going on. I do however pray that things are going much better for Ann and that she's gotten hold of a great book.
-Tee |
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