| Author |
Message |
    
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 813
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:05 am: | 
|
The conventional wisdom is that women get paid less than men, but is that really true?
Working in a big organization is it is very hard to find out what anyone makes. Folks are real hush, hush about salaries. How would a person find out whether or not someone with the same qualifications is getting paid more because of gender? |
Disciple724
Veteran Poster
Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 101
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 07:48 am: |
|
Almost every employer for one reason or another has to keep statistics on its employees. Many also have release these to government agencies for reporting purposes and therefor statistical comparisons can be made. You may not know for certain, but they do! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7509
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
|
While it may be true that women make less than men, a credible argument for why this is sexist, to my knowledge, hasn't been made yet. To the contrary, however, since men greatly outnumber women in areas like science and math, education seems like a plausible reason for why women are paid less. I haven't heard anything convincing to counter that. I'd oppose it in a heartbeat if I had. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 814
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 11:13 am: |
|
It seems to be the case in every industry, men get paid more. Where salaries are made public as in Hollywood, females get paid less than actors. Female athletes also get paid less than men. What about doctors and lawyers? Do men still make more? Is it tradition? Or is women's work seen as less important/valuable? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12875
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
|
In the Federal government, there is a standard salary for a each grade level. The Post Office is a case in point. A female letter carrier makes the same salary as a male one. The discrepancy seems to crop up in the area of promotions. Seniority figures into this, but also office politics, and in any organization, ambitious people of both sexes can sleep their way to the top. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3193
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 01:16 pm: |
|
There seem to be several areas where a male-female pay gap may come into play.
One involves the choices that men and women make in terms of college majors and careers, with women often going into more "human service" oriented fields that often pay less than others. (Of course, it used to be that "blue collar"--and, largely, male--jobs paid more than "pink collar"--largely female-- work. I wonder if this is as much of a factor now that so many of the former jobs in this country have disappeared or moved elsewhere.)
Another factor involves starting pay. Supposedly, women typically under-negotiate their starting salary (if they even negotiate at all), which immediately puts them at a disadvantage that can last their careers compared to like-abled and like-prepared males.
Additionally, if we are talking earnings over a lifetime, again women are more likely to get paid less as they are more likely than men to have career interruptions, longer career gaps, and more routine absences for family-related reasons. Pregnancy/childbirth/childcare, taking sick days because of a sick child, following a spouse to his job transfer, putting off higher education during children's younger years or to help pay for spouse's education, caretaking for aging parents are all examples of this.
Other things may also be at play--not behaving in certain ways that may guarantee advancement, not being rewarded for more "male" work behavior patterns, women's salaries being seen by employers as "2nd salaries" instead of primary/co-primary family income, etc.
An obvious underlying question, assuming that any or all of these factors are true and result in lower pay, is whether or not sexism is involved. Of course, that is harder to determine and prove and IMO seems to actually get harder to prove the more legal safeguards are put into place. Individual, blatant sexism would be easier to identify and solve. (For example, just fire the offending parties.) Institutional sexism, like institutional racism, is a harder nut to crack.
BTW, I have heard of parents naming their daughters gender neutral or traditionally male names--"Kennedy," "Taylor," "Casey," "Cameron," "Tyler," etc. Apparently they do this in order both to instill in their girls a sense of power and to fool potential employers and others who may come across these names on resumes and such. Interesting strategy that I'd love to explore more some day. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 815
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 01:53 pm: |
|
^^^tremendous post!
The rationalizations some employers use seem so outdated, such as men being heads of households and need to earn more. How many female head of households are there today?
Another factor is employers may tend to hire other males-someone they can play golf with. LOL.
And it is true young women are not encouraged to go into the sciences, computers or otherwise that pay a lot more, than say teaching.
Also, men are now going into traditionally female occupations such as nursing.
I am surprised that in publishing at the various conferences I have attended the agents, editors/decision makers tend to be women. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10202
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 02:08 pm: |
|
Average Annual Pay of College graduates:
White males: $66,000
Black males: $44,000
Black females: $41,000
White females: $39,000
Per 2001 article in USA News & World Report |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10203
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 02:10 pm: |
|
There are at least 2 professions that women get paid considerably MORE than do their male counterparts:
@ Fashion modeling
@ Pornography |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7514
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 03:44 pm: |
|
There is a sizable gap in math and science between Blacks and whites too, which that Pay Report probably reflects. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 817
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 07:22 pm: |
|
women get paid more than men for porno?
Now that is wage discrimination because the men in those things are doing all the hard work. No pun intended.  |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3200
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 07:34 am: |
|
All: You might be interested in this from Michelle Obama's Blogher blog:
...I’ll be having two roundtable chats this week—one in Richmond, Virginia, and one in Charlotte, North Carolina.
In Virginia, I’ll have a special guest with me: Lilly Ledbetter.
Perhaps some of you may have never heard her name before—but she is right in the middle of a crucial legislative battle that will have an effect on the lives of millions of American women now and for generations to come.
Lilly is from Alabama. For nearly 20 years, she worked for a Goodyear tire plant. She was the only female supervisor—so you know this is a tough, hard-working woman. One day, someone sent her an anonymous letter with a list of salaries of her co-workers. That’s how she found out that she was making less than the men she worked with—even men who were less senior than she was. And we’re not talking about a few dollars. Some of her male counterparts were making 40 percent more than she was—for doing the same work.
Over 20 years, that adds up to a lot of money—money that could have helped Lilly send her kids to college, provide some comfort in her everyday life, or prepare for her retirement.
So Lilly did the brave and difficult thing. She confronted this injustice. Her case went all the way to the Supreme Court. And in a 5-to-4 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that, according to the law, Lilly only had 180 days to complain about the pay discrimination. So because it had taken her 20 years to find out the truth, she had missed her chance at justice.
Well, some people in Congress decided to change that law, so it would no longer reward employers for hiding discrimination until they ran out the clock. Last July, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act passed the House. But this April, Republicans in the Senate blocked it. Now, Democrats in the Senate are working to bring Lilly’s bill back for another vote this fall.
My husband is a proud supporter of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
Senator McCain does not support it. In fact, Senator McCain said that what women really need is more education and training.
But Lilly Ledbetter had plenty of training. What she doesn’t have is the right to fight for the pay she deserves.
Pay equity is a major issue at stake in this election. Today, across the country, women are paid only 77 cents for every dollar a man earns, and minority women are paid even less for equal work. This isn’t only an economic issue. This is a family issue. When women are paid less than men, their kids pay the price....
http://www.blogher.com/fighting-equal-pay |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3201
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 07:35 am: |
|
^^Perhaps, Robynmarie, but it is the women who are doing all the acting ;) |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 08:58 am: |
|
Please ladies ...we don't even want to go there ...but of course it can be a job ...sometimes... 1-2-3-4-what the hell am I doing this for...1-2-3-4-where's my hat, am out the door!
Don't get me started.... you gals need to take that to the ladies room |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 818
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 09:48 am: |
|
I haven's seen a porno flick in years, but I understand now they have "plots". Talk about putting lipstick on a pig!
LOL@ women do all the acting. I think there was a survey recently that asked women how often they "faked" in bed. I'll see if I can find. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12881
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 01:32 pm: |
|
I would certainly think that male porno stars would be at a premium and get higher pay because men have to be very well-endowed to appear in these films and this limits the choices.  |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10205
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 05:19 pm: |
|
It's funny how you women kept the porno thing going.
Female pornstars are generally paid more per movie than males. But over time an individual male pornstar might make more than most females. Because well-endowed men who can dependably get erections and, well, you know "... on cue" are the true nuts and bolts (*snicker*) of the profession.
Hahahahahaha!!!
And, really, how can a man ever really know for certain whether or how much a chick is "acting"? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10206
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 05:22 pm: |
|
But, seriously, notice how there is NOT a big difference between what Black male college graduates earn and that which is earned by their Black and White female peers.
Perhaps there is pay inequity based on sex-gender. But BLACK men are NOT the beneficiaries of such. |
Email This Page