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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10099
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 02:35 pm: | 
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Yesterday, I happened upon the following item in a local newspaper:
“Homewood-Flossmoor High School grad LeRoy Weathersby got a standing ovation; he had scored a perfect 36 on the ACT test, was forced to retake it and beat the odds to earn another perfect score. He'll be attending the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign this fall.”
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/homan/1020928,CST-FTR-sno24.article
Given how popular it has become to criticize and vilify young Black men, I really enjoyed reading this because the young man cited above is an African American MALE.
I am HUGE proponent of standardized testing. I believe standardized exams often a golden opportunity to effectively eviscerate questions and debates about quality of education one has achieved. Essentially that, regardless of his race, gender, ethnicity, economics, there is little doubt the young Mr. Weathersby is likely as BOOKSMART as anyone else – be he/she White, Asian or other - who will matriculate into the University of IL this fall.
Are you Yay or Nay on standardized exams? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7039
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 03:43 pm: |
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Are you Yay or Nay on standardized exams?
Essentially that, regardless of his race, gender, ethnicity, economics, there is little doubt the young Mr. Weathersby is likely as BOOKSMART as anyone else – be he/she White, Asian or other
(This is not what it means at all. There are people with lousy grades that do well on them.
I always did well on them. I had some friends whose academic careers were resurected by getting good scores on them.
They are culturally biased, don't measure creativity and to some extent only measure a person's ability to take the test--that is answer multiple choice questions in a room full of people under the pressures of time and guess--
I always think I did well because (and you can pass this on to the young uns) I answered every question.
I'd rush through the section of the test (they did give it in sections, didn't they? It has been a while) and answer every question I knew the answer to.
Then I'd go back and give an answer to every question that I guessed but was not sure.
Then I'd go back and answer every one that I had no idea about, giving it the best guess I had.
So there was a lot of luck, discipline, steady nerves--
Some people just cannot take tests--just cannot do an exam with a time limit in a room full of people
Does this mean that they are stupid? I don't think so.
I don't think they are, in all cases, an accurate measure of a person's knowledge of material or intelligence.
They are a useful bottleneck--which is their real function |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7044
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 03:59 pm: |
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I was also in luck in that I could (and still can) read very fast. There are people who, for one reason or the other, read slowly. It takes them more time but they come to the same understanding.
Are they stupid because they read more slowly? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12365
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:34 pm: |
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Yes, there are the test-passers who are proficient at giving correct answers but lacking in hands-on skills. No written exam should be the single barometer of the sum total of a person's capabilities. IMO. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7051
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:44 pm: |
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Yes, there are the test-passers who are proficient at giving correct answers but lacking in hands-on skills. No written exam should be the single barometer of the sum total of a person's capabilities. IMO
(NOW you got your MIND RIGHT!
You must have had some pickled pig's feet!) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3020
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:18 pm: |
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Congrats to Mr. Weathersby!!! Go, Fighting Illini!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12377
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 01:39 pm: |
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Yes, this young man should, of course, be given credit for his remarkable accomplishment. Hopefully the U. of I. will educate him in more ways than one!  |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7063
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 02:15 pm: |
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Hope he didn't cheat or pay somebody to take the test for him.
That happens, you know. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10100
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 03:00 pm: |
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Chris,
I never said standardized exams should provide the sole or final determination of where one is. But they should help to confirm what the rest of one's educational record assert.
And if you clearly read the bold/underlined portion of my initial post, you should have observed that Weatherby TWICE took and scored 36 on the exam. So I think foks are pretty sure he EARNED the score he got. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10101
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 03:06 pm: |
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Chris,
If one does not read with the alacrity of one peers, one likely can and will not obtain and retain as much of certain kinds of information as one's peers, though one likely can and will not do as well in certain kinds of educational pursuits as other do.
And the very SAME criteria is applied in any OTHER worthy pursuit. The bigger, stronger, faster more athletic foks are more likely to be paid millions to perform pro sports. The taller, prettier and/or more handsome women and women are morely like to made highly paid models and/or actresses. And those of use who are inately skilled at calculating are more likely to do well as engineers, architects, scientists, etc.
This isn't a fairness issue. This is the way the world works, bruh. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12380
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 04:48 pm: |
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Mental toughness and people-skills rival the merits of written exams. Self-made people with ambition and determination make it to the top in a dog-eat-dog world just as much as others.  |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7073
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 04:05 pm: |
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If one does not read with the alacrity of one peers, one likely can and will not obtain and retain as much of certain kinds of information as one's peers, though one likely can and will not do as well in certain kinds of educational pursuits as other do.
(What about George Bush?)
And those of use who are inately skilled at calculating are more likely to do well as engineers, architects, scientists, etc
(Read what Cynique said. Most of the people who graduated at the top of my high school class could not tie their own shoes and are drooling somewhere.
Those tests measure how well somebody can take a test. Not how smart they are. Not how well they are likely to do in school or life.
And, again, I always did well on them. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10110
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 04:16 pm: |
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Chris,
Bush is a member of the Lucky Sperm Club. The rules for the rest of us don't apply to him.
And I have never bought this argument that foks who do well on standardardized exams are all idiot savants. I think that's a myth foks who do NOT do as well on the SAT/LSAT spread around so they can feel better about themselves.
But I must admit your "And, again, I always did well on them." gives me reason for pause.
Hahahahahaha!!!! |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3247
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 03:10 pm: |
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"Are you Yay or Nay on standardized exams?"
Mixed feelings. I know there has to be a bench mark or some kind of standard to measure comprehension, acquisition and potential. But ST's are not the all in all. I have seen this first hand. I can personally tell you from being a technical instructor before, my eyes were opened to this reality. There were students who could academically churn up a test and bore through any academic obstacle you put in front of them. But when it came to lab work and troubleshooting non-functioning transmitters and receivers and system integration that had casualties, they were not necessarily at the top of the heap. Other students who never did as well academically, would raise to the occasion and clearly out preform the test whiz kids. Standardized testing is just one form of measurement. It is not the crystal ball for future achievement nor potential. Like I said, I've seen this too many times before.
I've had technicians come to the fleet who were honor grads or at the top of their classes but in the long run, the best and most proficient reliable technicians would be the guys who were good to average students. As I said, standardized tests do have a place, but I'm not completely sold on them as being the sole criteria for the "have and have not's". I never could completely buy into the venerable conservative meritocracy dogma. I've seen too many contradictions.
Case in point; I had a friend who was horrible in math in high school and got mediocre grades in other subjects. He barely passed Algebra I and failed Geometry....TWICE! Bombed on the SAT. After graduation, he joined the Air Force and when he returned, he was a completely different person. Very focused and much, much more mature (four years in the military can do this to an immature kid). He decided to go to college. This is a true freakin' story: HE WENT TO COLLEGE, GOT A DEGREE IN MATH, WAS WORKING ON A MASTERS IN PHYSICS AND WAS TEACHING NIGHT CLASSES IN CALCULUS AT THE LOCAL UNIVERSITY!! WTF!!?? Here was a guy who failed every standardized test and measurement of academic achievement. Yet, something sparked a guy who by all indicators of standardized testing, could not possibly achieve what he did. Some where along the line, he did a complete turnaround. Why? Go figure...... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10114
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:10 pm: |
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Ntfs,
I would agree that not all standardized exams are created equal. Some more accurately reflect what we need to know about students than do others. And where the testing is deficient, we should endeavor to IMPROVE them. Not wholly discount the notion and need for such.
And what you describe of your friend appear to be less about standardardized exams and more about someone coming a little later to understanding what he want to do and be. And I am sure the military helped provide him with discipline and clarity that he had previously lacked.
But the world is growing ever more competitive and CONNECTED. There are millions of American jobs that companies can NOT fill with American citizens. And there are 100's of millions of Chinese and Indian foks who are doing what they need to do to TAKE those jobs, to vie and compete for our existing businesses and industries and make and control even newer, better business sectors.
There's only so much allowance for and capitulation to our educational and intellectual weakness and failings we can allow and endure before we're overrun by those who don't give a DAYAM about how and why young Jamal and Jalessa CANNOT learn and score well on the SAT. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12390
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:31 pm: |
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Corporate America pretty much re-trains and molds their entry level employees because those straight out of colleges are not oriented to a particular work place.
A college degree is certainly a ticket to good employment but you can get one of these without aceing your SATS or do those with high SAT scores always make it into the prestigious universities. |
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