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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7001
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 01:10 pm: | 
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25322638/ |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12346
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:02 pm: |
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George Carlin was one of my husband's and my favorite comedians. Carlin was a true iconoclast. R.I.P. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7008
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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Now HERE is somebody who folks should be mourning.
A truth teller in the line of Lennie Bruce, Dick Gregory, Richard Pryor, Godfrey Cambridge, et al.
I'll always remember his Hippy Dippy Weatherman and White Harlem routines.
They ain't making them like that no more--and for good reason.
Who wants to have all those heart attacks? |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1359
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:47 am: |
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Chris Dick Gregory is still running around. You scared me at first.
George Carlin was consistently funny over the the entire span of his multi-decade career. You can't say that for even my boy Richard Pryor who, while in his prime, had no peer.
RIP |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7015
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:02 pm: |
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George Carlin was consistently funny over the the entire span of his multi-decade career. You can't say that for even my boy Richard Pryor who, while in his prime, had no peer.
(Yes you can. And Carlin definitely had some unfunny moments, especially when he was starting out) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:51 pm: |
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Chrishayden, in my opinion, Pryor's career was effectly ended after he stopped using the "N-word" and all of those stupid movies with Gene Wilder did not help. That basically opening the door for folks like Eddie Murphy.
If Carlin had some unfunny moments it was before I was aware of who he was. Carlin's quality of humor did not drop off like Pryor's or Murphy's (killed too by stupid movies too). |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 824
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 02:15 pm: |
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IMO, Pryor's career was not derailed when he stopped using the "N-word". Yes, his career was not elevated by his movies yet I truely believe that his dive was directly related to his drug use. Some might argue that he was using drugs throughout his career, however if one is to believe in the concept that it is a progressive and deadly disease, which it is, as defined by the term/word disease, much like any other cancer, then his career, and it's ultimate tailspin has to be looked at from that perspective.
Did his career go down hill after he stopped using the word or around that time period, maybe but Richards career was not built on the N-word!
His career was sapped...ZAPPED by his drug use....period!
I'll take Murphy's "killed" any day ...ANY DAY ! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7025
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 05:09 pm: |
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His career was sapped...ZAPPED by his drug use....period!
(And so it was. Like Sly Stone, like Jimi Hendrix, like Lennie Bruce, like Charlie Parker, like John Belushi--you keep getting loaded and sooner or later you are all burnt out.
Especially Coke. It just burns a person out.
People don't realize they are just like those video game characters with the energy bars. You got only so much to use up. Use it all up on one end, you spend the rest of your life sitting in a burnt out stupor--if you are still alive.
Pile on top of the fact that you build a tolerance to coke and it is toxic--you keep taking more and more to get the high and sooner or later you get a dose that finishes you off--especiallly if you are smoking the stuff, like Rich did. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1366
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 05:16 pm: |
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Pryor used drugs his entire life. I would not be surprised if Carlin did too.
I think when Richard stopped using the n-word he lost his ability to reflect the sentiments of the people who still used the word. He stopped connecting to people in the same viceral way -- he jumped the shark as some folks say.
Sure the consequences of drug use over the years probably had an adverse impact, like when he almost burn himself up, but I don't that that was the cause.
Pryor choosing not to use the n-word was not the cause, but a reflection of the cause which is a mistery to me. Whatever the root cause was his comedy suffered.
Ask yourself: were Richard's funniest albums before or after he stopped using the n-word? |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 827
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:41 pm: |
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Troy,
Your point is well taken, however, I must again say that much of his humor was not based upon his usage of the N-Word. To again, cloud the issue by associating his fall with the N-Word pays little tribute to Pryor's talent and shifts the focus away from the real issue and plays into the hands of those that believe we are nothing but a bunch of cussing negro's that can only laugh at baffoons that pander to our self mockery.
Richard's humor was based in timing and characterizations. When the edge is lost, his skills diminished. Carlin's Humor never reached the level of Richard's! He didn't have to be ON, he merely had to remember. Not that Pryor lost his memory, he lost that fine edge, that small window of connection with his audience. To minimize the effects his drug usage had on his career and to somehow equate his desire to stop using the word to those effects is a shame.
It's obvious to me that some may not have a clue of the downward effects drug addiction has on an individual. One COULD argue that his Pre-N***er albums were funnier, Yet AGAIN, his usage is like a small snowball that turns into the head of a giant snowman....REALLY. It's not like a snort today or a "blow" every now and then. One has to realize that cronic addiction is an ongoing process that leaves nothing in it's path.
Carlin may have used Cocaine, but again, he couldn't hold a candle to Pryor. He didn't need all the tools that Richard possessed! Btw, how many movie did Carlin appear in, how much did they make? His jokes were of the "oh yeah" variety, thought jokes.
I believe your "Whatever the root cause, his comedy suffered" is true but your "but a reflection of the cause which is a mistery to me" leaves me scratching my head.
Carey
Carey |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 828
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:15 pm: |
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Good point Chris,
Addiction and recovery is soooo misunderstood. "Treatment" is by far a failure! The problem is that most don't know they are in UNTIL they try to get out. If we look at the word "recovery" there's a clue to the problem of understanding the process. Can you recover something you never had? Can you recover something that is lost forever!!!???
Because of the ignorance of Addiction and recovery, the beat goes on.
The game is the same, which has always been total distruction yet the main ingrediants have grown 100 fold. Treatment and the understanding of it, is still playing by the same old tired rules that have never truely worked. The game is being played on the wrong battlefield and being supported by those that think it's merely a problem of "the poor old will-less individual". The supporting cast of those sent off to treatment will forever be let dowm because "that" person will never reach goals of the waiting family. I am not saying that once a Junkie, always a Junkie, that is not it at all. I am saying the debilatating effects of cronic drug use is more than the average person can even imagine. Case in point, Pryor and the other individuals that Chris mentioned. Yes, one can recoop some of his loses but "some" is king.
Another way to look at the progression of the problem is to think of a number line. If one stops at the number 40 on a scale to 100 (death), if and when they quit, they don't start over at 1...OH NO! 40, and more than likely 50 is waiting for them....IT IS TRUE! Now, if this is true, one might ask if "10" is ever possible....that's a good question. Time is a friend!
Richard never gave himself "THAT" much time. And again, some things are lost FOREVER!
Treatment, recovery and Addiction are grossly misunderstood.
Carey
Carey |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3011
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:33 pm: |
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Treatment, recovery and Addiction are grossly misunderstood.
I agree, Carey. I have been learning lot about this stuff in my current job, mainly w/r/t alcohol abuse. Brain "architecture," genetic risk and protective alleles, as well as social/environmental factors play a big part. Also there are many links between addictions and mental dysfunction. The popular idea about people using drugs to "self-medicate" may not be far off.
Of course, we (fans, critics, etc) seem to not be able to get enough of stories of addicted and mentally unstable geniuses. I'm reading about the great mathematician Godel, who apparently had some sort of pathological aversion to and distrust of food. (He was 60 something pounds when he died.) Would he have been able to come up with his amazing singular discoveries had he been "cured"? Would his story been as interesting? |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 831
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:54 pm: |
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Vet,
I am pleased that you jumped in. I know we are probably moving this discussion somewhat left of the original post but hey....
Keep studying, I think you will find the "out" is more complexing and relative than the "whys". There will never be a definitive answers to the causes of alcoholism. You did hit on something very important, Brain "architecture". In that phrase alone, one can imagine the difficulties in finding answers. Yes, all the other elements are factors but each are blown out of the water when we look at the wide range of individuals that are trapped in the nightmare. Every social and economic group has victims...EVERY. One has to only go to a treatment facility like Hazelton to witness this. FBI agents, sons and daughters of politicains and the wealthy are there. Gangsters son's, Airplane pilots and doctors fill the halls. Housewives, teenage rich white children are not excluded. Lawyers and Judges sit along side the rest of the "addicted". Just like the nightly news that shows "us" in the cheese lines. If the "need" was only for us, welfare would shut down. News and the "why" books do a dis-service to the cause, they protect secrets. One, there's really no money in "recovery". Research and "why" books will continue to reap rewards.
You mentioned mental Dysfunction, there is money involved with that theory. In earlier years of treatment, the powers to be in treatment wanted nothing to do with "doctors". Mental Dysfunction was their focus but drug therapy was not in their plan of action. Doctors to treat the illness could not set foot in the place. However, based on the old treatment process and it's ignorants at some levels, insurance, patients and family included, faster results were demanded. In comes the pill pushers. Now they medicate the medicated. This pleases the client (for a while) becasue he's sick and he believes in those in which he has given his care. And he wants an excuse, a reason, a quick solution for their pain. A band-aid effect for sure. Consequently the client goes home with a handfull of pills or perscription with a new problem masking the old one which was never really addressed. Out of site...out of mind...out of his mind.
The bottom line Vet, as long as we try to find "reasons", we will forever be looking in the wrong place!!!!
Carey
Carey |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12353
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:43 pm: |
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I agree that Richard Pryor's stand-up routines did get progressively unfunny and I think it was because his material lost its shock value and became repetitive. The word "n i g g e r" was the glue that gave continuity to his monologues and it became a security blanket. His fans continued to like what they came to expect from him because he held a place in their affections.
IMO, everybody is addicted to something. An affinity for an indulgence gets stuck in the groove of a brain wrinkle. If we're lucky, our addictions aren't destructive or beyond our financial means. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 832
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:06 am: |
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Hello Cyn-Cyn
I can not disagree wih anything you have said.
"in the groove of a brain wrinkle" okay, I can work with that one. I might however add that just like a groove in one of your old LP's, that was not a production groove, it's gonna skip or get stuck in the groove. Yeah, I can work with Brain Wrinkle.
Finances might be the least of their worries. If it's an addiction it will cause destruction. See, that is one of the exact reasons some stay in an addiction until it's to late. Rationalizing "destructions" and thinking having money means it's not that bad and you are not "that" bad. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3014
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 09:00 am: |
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I, too, like your "groove of a brain wrinkle" metaphor, Cynique. I am currently in a self-imposed book-buying moratorium. But when I do get back into my own groove, the next "theme" I am going to take up will have to do with neuroscience. This is really some fascinating stuff, and folks who research it for a living are only just getting started. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 833
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 09:31 am: |
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Hello Yvettep, mornin' to ya
That's why I like calling you vet....just like an old vet...someone that's been around...someone that knows how to tap at the window real lightly, yet the intended party can look and see that they are there.
w/r/t....protective alleles....neurosience *wink*
Hey, gonna talk about the BET awards on another block, why don't you come on over and have a cup of coffee?
Did you know Thumper's discussion group was called Coffee Will Make You Black....I think?
yes...title of a book but..... |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3238
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 03:06 pm: |
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"Pryor used drugs his entire life. I would not be surprised if Carlin did too."
He did. But he was as raw, unrepentant and confrontational with his searing counter-status quo routines as was legally allowed. The man did not care who he offended or insulted. If you couldn't take his brand of in-yo-face reality checks....too bad too sad. Profanity, insults and ruthless anti-political correctness was his science. I loved the guy. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7048
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:38 pm: |
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But he was as raw, unrepentant and confrontational with his searing counter-status quo routines as was legally allowed
(Hey--that's pretty good. I'm going to steal it)
The word "n i g g e r" was the glue that gave continuity to his monologues and it became a security blanket.
(Wrong. I seen the man be hysterically funny and he did not even say damn. You need to go back and listen to those albums--in fact, listen to the ones he did before he started on the raw stuff.
I forget, though. You are a die hard Nipsey Russell fan)
I think when Richard stopped using the n-word he lost his ability to reflect the sentiments of the people who still used the word. He stopped connecting to people in the same viceral way -- he jumped the shark as some folks say.
(How does everybody forget all the legal troubles, divorces, heart attacks and finally him burning himself up that time?
Don't you think all that had just a little bit to do with it, too?)
I have been learning lot about this stuff in my current job, mainly w/r/t alcohol abuse. Brain "architecture," genetic risk and protective alleles, as well as social/environmental factors play a big part. Also there are many links between addictions and mental dysfunction. The popular idea about people using drugs to "self-medicate" may not be far off.
(Some people just likes to get high, too.)
IMO, everybody is addicted to something. An affinity for an indulgence gets stuck in the groove of a brain wrinkle. If we're lucky, our addictions aren't destructive or beyond our financial means
(All addiction is destructive) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7049
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:39 pm: |
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I just had me some SWINE!
It got my mind right! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12370
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:11 pm: |
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Let chrishayden dream on, folks. The swine has done nothing but coat his intellect with a film of lard. |
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