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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2965
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 09:30 pm: | 
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...Over these years, justice has been delayed and it has been denied. Perhaps a jury can accept R. Kelly's absurd defense and find "reasonable doubt" despite the fact that the film was shot in his home and featured a man who was identical to him. Perhaps they doubted that the young woman in the courtroom was, in fact, the same person featured in the ten year old video. But there is no doubt about this: some young Black woman was filmed being degraded and exploited by a much older Black man, some daughter of our community was left unprotected, and somewhere another Black woman is being molested, abused or raped and our callous handling of this case will make it that much more difficult for her to come forward and be believed. And each of us is responsible for it.
We have proudly seen the community take to the streets in defense of Black men who have been the victims of police violence or racist attacks, but that righteous outrage only highlights the silence surrounding this verdict.
We believe that our judgment has been clouded by celebrity-worship; we believe that we are a community in crisis and that our addiction to sexism has reached such an extreme that many of us cannot even recognize child molestation when we see it.
We recognize the absolute necessity for Black men to speak in a single, unified voice and state something that should be absolutely obvious: that the women of our community are full human beings, that we cannot and will not tolerate the poisonous hatred of women that has already damaged our families, relationships and culture....
Full statement: http://jelanicobb.com/content/view/39/27/
Link to petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/rkelly/petition.html |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10075
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 08:28 am: |
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I have a problem with feeling compelled to vilify Kelly and to defend and sympathize with his alleged victim when his that alleged victim declares she was NOT the victim.
Had Kelly’s alleged victim or her immediate family came forward and declared the videotape accurately presents she and Kelly having sex while she was a still a minor, he would be in prison now.
But if his victims and/or family won’t come forward to verify what Kelly (and other alleged abuser) is accused of doing, how can the rest of us be responsible for what’s going down? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2966
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:10 pm: |
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how can the rest of us be responsible for what’s going down?
I think that is exactly the point of the statement. A group of men encouraging other men to begin seeing and taking responsibility for what goes on in their communities. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3214
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:32 pm: |
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"But if his victims and/or family won’t come forward to verify what Kelly (and other alleged abuser) is accused of doing, how can the rest of us be responsible for what’s going down?"
Bro ABM, good point. It's part of the new "Negro No Snitchin' Culture"(something our old friend Mzuri passionately supported). A self defeating group behavior that guarantees criminals will go free and not face legal persecution and incarceration but instead, fantasies and hopes of street justice will prevail.
This trendy cancerous mindset allows thousands of vile criminals to continue to walk and live in black communities with complete impunity. Free to continue their wanton acts of brazen violence and victimizing its black inhabitants. The female victim and her family remind me of this. Kelly is a sad individual who hides behind his talent and popularity. His sexual cravings for young girls will continue unabated. What type of man derives pleasure from standing and urinating on an underage girl? How many times has he done this? That was not the first. But if Negroes refuse to stand up to the cancers in their communities, what is to be expected....??? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10076
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:42 pm: |
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Yvettep,
Okay. But what am I suppose to be taking responsibility for? What I, ME and MINE are doing?
Or what some OTHER mofos are doing who are too dayam ignant and hardheaded to be reasoned with are doing?
If Kelly's alleged victim and family is willing to take CASH for getting p*ssed on, WTF am I suppose to do except prevent him from p*ssing on MY kids? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3222
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 03:59 pm: |
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"If Kelly's alleged victim and family is willing to take CASH for getting p*ssed on, WTF am I suppose to do except prevent him from p*ssing on MY kids?"
Done! End of subject...... |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2972
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 04:27 pm: |
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WTF am I suppose to do...?
Here is part of what the gentlement signing the petition are proposing:
This is about more than R. Kelly's claims to innocence. It is about our survival as a community. Until we believe that our daughters, sisters, mothers, wives and friends are worthy of justice, until we believe that rape, domestic violence and the casual sexism that permeates our culture are absolutely unacceptable, until we recognize that the first priority of any community is the protection of its young, we will remain in this tragic dead-end.
... Make a commitment in your own life to never to hit, beat, molest, rape, or exploit Black females in any way and, if you have, to take ownership for your behavior, seek emotional and spiritual help, and, over time, become a voice against all forms of Black female exploitation
Challenge other Black males, no matter their age, class or educational background, or status in life, if they engage in behavior and language that is exploitative and or disrespectful to Black females in any way. If you say nothing, you become just as guilty.
Learn to listen to the voices, concerns, needs, criticisms, and challenges of Black females, because they are our equals, and because in listening we will learn a new and different kind of Black manhood...
Cobb also seems to be encouraging a quest for knowledge about the subject and he includes a list of resources in his post, including "NO! The Rape Documentary" by Aishah Simmons that I think we have discussed here in the past.
I think a part of the jist of this effort is a desire and commitment to care about other folks--even if they do not seem williling or able to care about themselves and even if they do not fall in our immediate circle of kin and friends. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10080
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:28 pm: |
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Yvettep,
What, if ANYTHING, are Black women expect to do while brothas gallantly rescue them from the clutches of other men?
Continue to tramp around in hookers-are-us get up? Birth and raise Out of Wedlock children (thus, helping to create the NEXT generation of no-count men)? Acquire STD's from having unprotected sex?
Look, now. I SEE how young ladies are carrying on out here. I KNOW how they do.
Hell, I've chaperone house parties where the 16 year old GIRLS are practically date-raping the BOYS.
I know girls who have SOLICITED gangbangs being pulled on them.
I've known girls who have acquired fake ID's so they can trick grown men into thinking they're old enuff to bang.
All this stuff about what MEN are suppose to do to rescue poor, weak and helpless virginal Black females is for the birds. And it's LARGELY for the birds because brothas would have to rescue a lot of these skeezers-in-training from THEMSELVES.
We need to cut the sheht and realize we ALL live in a sociological ecology of which we ALL are made and make. So you'll never really address many of the issues of Black men UNTIL you realize that such must occur CONCURRENT with addressing LOTS of problems with today's Black woman. And MANY of those problems result from MANY of you women being too dayam stubborn, arrogant and self-deluded to realize you HAVE the problems. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12327
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:15 pm: |
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Bottom line, adults are obligated to advocate the protection of minors from sexual predators. Women over 18 are on their own, and the law is not on their side, especially when it comes to rape. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6965
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:40 am: |
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"If Kelly's alleged victim and family is willing to take CASH for getting p*ssed on, WTF am I suppose to do except prevent him from p*ssing on MY kids?"
Done! End of subject......
(For once, you are right.
This statement was written by William Jelani Cobb who teaches at Spellman College. He organized the boycott of Nelly when he wanted to come to Spellman to do a blood drive because of the video to tip drill.
I dig Jelani. He's hip. But he got this superfemnist male guilt trip thang he is trying to lay on all males for being alive.
I object when somebody tries to say I am responsible for what some black lawbreaker has done. Likewise I object when one of these male "femnists" steps to me--without knowing me and knowing what I've done--and insists that I'VE got to bear the burdens for misoginy or sexism.
The last brother who so stepped to me was beating and cheating on his wife--all the while working on a "Free Angela Davis" committee so I don't bite on it.
I ain't saying that Jelani is projecting, I have no proof, but he is teaching at a woman's college, allright.
Think about Uberfemnist Bill Clinton and how he peed on women constantly and how the Left still gives him a pass.
If you want to see some abuse, go out in the suburbs on Superbowl Sunday and see all these Joe Sixpacks drumming on their wives' heads.
When the Jelani Cobbs and the Kevin Powell's start dealing with the greater society, I might want to give them a listen. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3225
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:08 pm: |
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"Continue to tramp around in hookers-are-us get up? Birth and raise Out of Wedlock children (thus, helping to create the NEXT generation of no-count men)? Acquire STD's from having unprotected sex?
Look, now. I SEE how young ladies are carrying on out here. I KNOW how they do.
Hell, I've chaperone house parties where the 16 year old GIRLS are practically date-raping the BOYS.
I know girls who have SOLICITED gangbangs being pulled on them."
Wow! Whew...!!!! Well, I'd like to see someone refute or deny that reality check. Any takers.....???? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6969
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:46 pm: |
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I think a part of the jist of this effort is a desire and commitment to care about other folks--even if they do not seem williling or able to care about themselves and even if they do not fall in our immediate circle of kin and friends.
(Your position is weak) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2985
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:42 pm: |
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Chris, it's not my position, but those drafting/supporting the petition.
At any rate, if that is the jist, then many would see this as returning to some previous (perhaps, largely mythological time) when Black folks did this as a matter of course... |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2986
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:45 pm: |
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go out in the suburbs on Superbowl Sunday and see all these Joe Sixpacks drumming on their wives' heads
This popular idea about the link between domestic violence and the Superbowl has largely been debunked. In fact, some assert that incidents of abuse are actually least likely following this and other similar big sporting events. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6976
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:50 pm: |
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At any rate, if that is the jist, then many would see this as returning to some previous (perhaps, largely mythological time) when Black folks did this as a matter of course...
(You can do it all you want--if the VICTIM refuses to prosecute you got nothing to work with)
This popular idea about the link between domestic violence and the Superbowl has largely been debunked. In fact, some assert that incidents of abuse are actually least likely following this and other similar big sporting events.
(Probably Rush Limbaugh and the NFL.
Please cite references, pliz..) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2987
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:00 pm: |
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Well, I'd like to see someone refute or deny that reality check. Any takers.....????
What do you expect there to be no refutation of? The idea that "Black women" are all out tramping around? If anyone needs refutation that this is what most of us are out doing then I can only suggest they widen their circle of Black women...
What, if ANYTHING, are Black women expect to do while brothas gallantly rescue them from the clutches of other men?
I'm interested what in the statement suggests that this is what is being proposed. There is a certain brand of Black masculinity that has this exact air to it--ALmost like, the problem with Black communities is that Black men aren't being partiarchal enough. In this argument, men need to rediscover their "warrior spirits," "take back the streets," reinstate themselves at the helm of family units, etc. I agree that this kind of solution is really no solution at all.
but he is teaching at a woman's college
Chris, I have known several guys who have taken women's study courses, called themselves feminists, etc, all in an effort to project a certain image to women. I don't know anything more than what I have read about Cobb, or this effort generally. I often wonder, though, who the intended audience is. I don't think such a statement, or signing one is likely to convert someone. As for men who already agree, what will happen differently for them once they formally sign the statement? Or, is it more of a distancing--an effort for some men to show that they are not like folks like Kelly? ANd in that case, again, who are they trying to demonstrate this to?
I am not saying that such motivations are behind this particular effort. But I do find things like this interesting.
Uberfemnist Bill Clinton
I think BC's image as a "feminist" was more a projection on him by women who so described themselves. Then these women did not know what to do with the whole Monica story. SO many of them resorted to class warfare, calling Lewinsky (and several of BC's other alleged conquests) "trailer trash" and making fun of her "big hair," etc. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2988
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:04 pm: |
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Please cite references, pliz..
Chris, Chris, Chris: How many times have I told you: "Snopes.com is your friend." 
Here: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp
If you have access to a university's library holding, you can do a search on one of the journal indexes by using the relevant keywords (e.g., sports, superbowl, domestic violence) in order to read research articles on the topic. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 800
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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Vette, I am standing in the grandstand cheering you on. You are difinitely holding your own. I like my position because I don't have one. Both of you....the guys and you have made some excellent points. You have a keen eye on finding rebuttal riff with errors or that are pointless.
The boys are strong, sometimes they hit below the belt but that IS the womens soft spot.
12 rounds baby...take a drink and get back in there *smile* |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6985
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 05:05 pm: |
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I'm interested what in the statement suggests that this is what is being proposed. There is a certain brand of Black masculinity that has this exact air to it--ALmost like, the problem with Black communities is that Black men aren't being partiarchal enough. In this argument, men need to rediscover their "warrior spirits," "take back the streets," reinstate themselves at the helm of family units, etc. I agree that this kind of solution is really no solution at all.
(No solution for YOU maybe. I have known and know some black women who shoulder that burden. I know one who raised five kids, all boys in the ghetto and all of them came out fine.
I have heard all of them say it ain't suppposed to be like that. That the man is supposed to be the lead.
You might be a fine matriarch and you should get you some man who is fine with that and y'all can groove.
If nobody else can tell YOU what is good for you, which I am all for , maybe the same goes for you.
I don't know anything more than what I have read about Cobb, or this effort generally. I often wonder, though, who the intended audience is.
(The brother used to post on the Afrofuturism discussion group all the time. It was the same. I thought it was because of course, teaching at a woman's college he took it on himself to be pro woman--if I taught at a womans college, I would do the same thing. I would tell them to be all they can be. That niggas ain't no good. That before they gave up the trash they ought to get the cash.
They would, after all, be signing my check.
And if I was running a motorcycle gang, I would be a raging A male.
They would, after all, be my boys.
12 rounds baby...take a drink and get back in there *smile*
(Yvettep is getting better, I must admit
But you still couldn't melt her down and pour her on ME!) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10090
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 09:29 am: |
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Yvettep,
The “matter of course” to which you refer was the product of a place and time that whereby Black Men AND Black Women could hold each other accountable in ways (e.g., making foks marry, condemning Out-of-wedlock child births, employing each other, etc.) we simply do NOT have today. Hell, if I tried to pull the kinds of stuff to protect and preserve the virtue of young sistas the kinds of stuff my grandfather could, I might get my honorable a$s locked up.
And It’ll be those SAME virtuous young sistas who would be pressing charges against me!
And there are A LEAST as many BW who are tramping around, making babies with kneegrows they hardly even know as there are the kinds of BM that you decry. Otherwise, why do we have +70% Black children being born and bred in single-parent homes.
Now, honestly, I hardly have a clue of what we can and should do to change and improve things beyond my doing with and for my own. Because almost ANYTHING I might propose would IMPOSE on someone else’s (largely newfound) right, privilege and entitlement in ways that will do more to cause me grief than it will anything else.
But I think I agree with Chris that EVERYONE’S must actively participate in resolving these misogyny, sexual and domestic abuse issues. And that will likely include ALL of us, not just BM, conceding to change in ways that we ALL might be somewhat challenged and discomforted by.
So until then, I will NOT be signing-on to some futile notion of trying to save other foks Black foks from doing WTF they want to do. Because my personal desire for masochism can go but so far. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2994
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:03 am: |
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The “matter of course” to which you refer was the product of a place and time that whereby Black Men AND Black Women could hold each other accountable in ways
Of course. Agreed.
Today is a new day. And the "good old days" weren't as good as they are in our imaginations.
Folks in higher ed have a unique but highly precarious post from which to address societal problems. Our positions, access to research and researchers, training to think critically, (relatively) comfortable jobs etc give us some important tools to look at the history of social problems, and analyze the solutions.
But our positions also mean we are at a disadvantage. We are trained much more to "analyze" than to act. In fact, we receive very little credit in academic evaluations for action and advocacy. Also, it is easy to get caught up in theory, while staying away from practicality that may be messy and not very elegant.
That is why I find things like this statement to be very interesting. (And there is a long tradition of this kind of thing--academics signing something protesting the Viet Nam war, opposing nuclear armament, in support of environmentalism, etc.) What exactly is it trying to solve? What is the next "action step" that will be taken after we sign this statement of support/condemnation/whatever? (BTW, I recognize that not everyone signing Cobb's statement are profs.) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2995
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:05 am: |
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Carey, I'm glad you are enjoying and following the discussion. What are your opinions on the topic? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2996
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:19 am: |
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teaching at a woman's college he took it on himself to be pro woman
CHris, I hear what you are saying. I am not quite as cynical as you are. (No surprise! ) Part of what may be going on is "successful" socialization. WHen you enter a job environment, you attend the little workshops, you do the on-line orientation sessions, you get a packet of literature, etc. etc. All of tihs is an effort on employers' part to socilalize their workforce, to get them to buy into that particular work culture. EMployees who believe are employees who, depending on your perspective (a) work effectively to further the mission of the organization, or (b) play along, toe the line, and don't cause trouble.
It is possible to be socialized into a certain view (whether it is that I should share toys with my sister or that I should espouse "feminist" views) while actually believing in what I am saying. It is possible to talk the talk and walk the walk.
Often we think about this, though, in a negative light. I have been working on a blog post about the phrase "drink the kool-aid." As I understand its usage, it is often used disparagingly to indicate that someone is accepting a view--one that is flawed or outright false-uncritically.
First of all--this use disparages a beloved drink from my childhood! LOL
But beyond that, it suggests that there is no way to agree with something lest you be labeled mistaken, or even stupid. The folks in Jim Jones' compund who did this even ended up dead! To me, that view is pretty extreme, and results, IMO in an increasing inability to create consensus and make incrementlal progress in important policy discussions.
But that's enough of a rant. Like I said, this is something I have been working on and obviously have a lot of ideas about. Another deficit of academics: we can talk and talk and talk about something with little regard for anyone else being interested in it! LOL |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 810
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 12:02 pm: |
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Hello Vette
Oh no Vette, I am just like the man that wears a hockey suit to the arena and never has played the game.
I am a lurker...a Peeking Tom on this one.
I have an opinion but do not have the skills to articulate it in this forum.
Again, I am just enjoying your combative skills. I don't know what you do for a living but you have a gift.
I am just so glad I don't have to hear your voice, you could sound like Archie Bunkers wife and that would be a turnoff. but I am loving your thang...just the way you are. Do I need to say that was a joke?! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2998
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 04:55 pm: |
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LOL OK, Carey! Observe (and commentate) on, brother. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12343
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 08:53 pm: |
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Puleeze. Yvette is running circles around these guys. IMO, her arguments are grounded in what benefits the greater good for society. It's not about the blame game the men want to engage in, it's about making progress for the better, not making excuses for the worse. |
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