| Author |
Message |
    
Sabiana
Veteran Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 232
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 01:51 pm: | 
|
I want to start listening to jazz music, but where, in a sea of so many jazz artists, do I start? I bought Kind Of Blue" CD by Miles Davis and loved it! Should I start from him, or go with the classics?
  |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 328
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 01:40 am: |
|
Hi Sabiana,
You've already made a great choice in "Kind of Blue" and I'm glad you loved it. The term "modal jazz" came into use after the release of that recording in 1959. A good definition of modal jazz is "few chords, lots of space," and the quintessential modal tune from Kind of Blue is "So What," a song with only two chords.
It sound like a great idea to start from Miles. If you have any specific Cd in mind, I think you should go with your intuition.
Another approach would be to listen to slightly later period Miles, for example, "E.S.P." recorded in 1965, the debut recording of his second great quintet, comprised of Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams (the first great quintet included John Coltrane tenor, Red Garland piano, Paul Chambers bass, and Jimmy Cobb drums, but he had other great groups in between with, for example, Hank Mobley on tenor and Wynton Kelly on piano). Another good choice might be "Seven Steps to Heaven," recorded in 1963 and featuring Ron Carter on all tracks, Herbie splitting the piano duties with Vic Feldman, and the great George Coleman, who preceded Wayne, on tenor.
"Sketches of Spain" was also recorded in 1959, a few months before "Kind of Blue." It's a kind of classical/jazz fusion featuring arrangements by Gil Evans. The most famous piece is Joachin Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranuez," originally a guitar concerto, but now featuring Miles playing the solo part.
"Miles Ahead," recorded in 1957, was the first Miles Davis/Gil Evans collaboration. It features solo trumpet over big band arrangements.
1959 was a kind of watershed year in jazz. Besides Kind of Blue, some albums recorded that year include "Mingus Ah Um" by Charles Mingus, and "Giant Steps" by John Coltrane, to name two great ones. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 329
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 02:08 am: |
|
great quintet included John Coltrane tenor, Red Garland piano, Paul Chambers bass, and Jimmy Cobb drums
Sorry, I meant Philly Joe Jones on drums.
I'm sure ntfs and YvetteP will have suggestions too.  |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 764
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 02:16 am: |
|
Hello Sabiana,
Like Steve, I too think you picked a good starting point. Let me change that a little. Miles Davis's Kind Of Blue is the best selling jazz album of all time. Sales does not equal good but in this case I personally believe it is the best of all time. But listen, music, like movies, books and food...yeah food, it's all about what you like. I would simply go to the library or online and sample sample sample.
I love Miles but I didn't like Sketches Of Spain.
Jazz fell out of favor in the late 60's and Miles tried to change his thing on several occasions.
If you liked that "Kind of Blue" flow, again, Steve's mention of Coltrane might be another excellent place to look. Yet again, Coltrane can go deep, he was the master at his craft.
The word "jazz" is used so broadly...dixieland...big band...modern...fusion...late 50's...early 60's... depending on who you ask, you are likely to get a varity of opinions.
Let your ear guide you. If you stay away from others opinions you will be the master of your domain, and after you identify a style that you like, you then might decided to get tecnical and find out what and why you like it.
Steve obviously knows what he's talking about. It might be wise to hit the net and then come back and pick his mind. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 769
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 09:21 pm: |
|
Sabiana
You asked a question and it got me thinking. Me and a very wise person that visits this board was talking about why people visit this site. She put me up on something. She said that for many this board is a view to the outside. She went on to say many are older our do not have a bunch of friends or family that they have contact with on a regular basis so for the most part we become their family.
They can chat about any and everything in the privicy of their home.
Some visit to promote dey sh*t, I don't know if that works but many stop by to say, "READ MY BOOK". I do know of authors that have started their journey right here in Thumper's Corner.
Other come here to show how intelligent they are. Sort of like the person that calls another and tells them that they went to church for no other reason than to project a certain image. Like the person that says they are reading the lastest "hip" or "hit" book.
Yet others come simply to argue. they state their position or opinion and then get mad when someone disagrees with them. You'll notice that they state their opinion rife with holes and limited with facts and then blowup when another fingers the void.
Some meet life long friends.
Some e-mail others that have simular views and talk about their adversaries on the board...oh yeah...clicks in Thumper's Corner .
Some cut and paste like your daily mailman, don't need a newspaper.
Reviewers are nice. Don't tell anyone but many of them are frustrated writers *lol*. Like pro athelets that end up on the halftime show. Technical genius many of them, just can't find the right game. That's a shame too. All writers making the big bucks are not good writers. Ouuuu weeee, don't even want to get into that. You know ...
I am probably pissing off someone with this post. Hey, maybe that's what I do, poke-pick-piss-off.
I know I confuse some, ask Crypto. Oh no, why did I say that, the boy was probably asleep.
Information is a good one. I've learned some things right up here in Thumper's Corner.
That brings me back to your original question....Jazz. I noticed that you have posted over 200 times so I thought you were serious in your request. Again, many just hit the board to see if they can get a reply. But since I like running my mouth I thought I'd throw something your way. Remember though, I am nobody. I am sitting here in my tore-up PJ's drinking a cup of coffee after seeing Tiger spank that ass...are you a golf fan? Where was I, see I can get going in the wrong direction. Now, that white dude named Burns did a great job with his documentary on Jazz. It was very insightfull, 10-12 part series. He also did the one on the Civil War. You can find it in any library. You will see all the greats. Now that's a great place to start.
As I said before, jazz is not a crowd sport. It's something I believe is for the individual. There are cuts I play for myself that I would never expect another to appreciate as much as I. The groove zone, mood zone is so individual. I like the sax, Alto...Tenor..whatever. Others might like the trumpet, the organ, the electric guitar or the drums.
Oh, I like a little vocals in my stew. I am presently listening to a CD by Herbie Hancock. It has various artist on it. I fell in love with a couple of cuts on it. Some I skip over. The name is Herbie Hancock...Possibilities. When one hears Herbie's name one would think jazz...right. However, it is jazz but with a different sort of thing. For instance he does a Steve Wonder song with male vocals and a jazzy piano mood. If I had a women that was tingling my soul I would put that on and sing along, sing straight at her with passion in my heart. The name of the song is "I just called to say I love you", 9th selection. I don't know how old you are so I'll just step out on a limb. We used to put Teddy on with one thing in mind...yeah.
Anyway, there's few songs that I play on that album, not for the silly purpose of above but for pure pleasure, musical ease, mood rendering peace.
But again, Miles still gets played on my box. Yes sir, at least once a week Kind Of Blue can be heard simmering in my house. I do Miles in the morning to start my day.
Okay Sabiana, I've kept you long enough with my little nothing, hope I've been of some service. If not ...well...this is what "I" do in Thumper's Corner. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 770
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 09:46 pm: |
|
BTW, silliness aside, others have come to this corner for a love connection... OH YEAH. I hope they don't mind but Chris and Cyn-Cyn found love. Yep, right here in Thumper's Corner. Can't you tell. They don't want others to know but they are slippery in love. Yeah, live together and everything. You didn't peep that did you? I was suppose to keep that under my hat but I am just like a strainer, things seep through.
But wait, they ain't the only ones. OH NO, Troy...you know Troy the big man around here, well he ahhh...he uhhh...opps, he's ahh married .
Shoooot, got my eye on a sweet dark delicate morsel!
Hey baby **wink** |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 227
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
|
Yet others come simply to argue. they state their position or opinion and then get mad when someone disagrees with them. You'll notice that they state their opinion rife with holes and limited with facts and then blowup when another fingers the void.
Carey, you ain't nevah lied. Well said.
Thanks to you and Steve_s for the jazz recommendations. I'm a relative newbie like Sabiana. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 330
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:00 am: |
|
Sabiana, Don't go by my suggestions. Just listen as much as you can and find whatever sounds good to you.
1959 was also the year that Ornette Coleman made his NYC debut at the Five Spot and recorded "The Shape of Jazz to Come," more or less the beginning of the "free jazz" movement of the 1960s. Dave Brubeck's explorations into odd time signatures, "Take Five," was recorded that year, as was "Thelonious Monk at Town Hall" (Monk with a big band), Bill Evans's "Portrait in Jazz," "The Cannonball Adderley Quintet in Chicago" featuring John Coltrane, and many others. I wouldn't necessarily recommend all those recordings, just indicating how diverse the jazz scene was at that time.
Carey, I recently read Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's new book about the Harlem Renaissance, the one they've been advertising during the NBA finals. We're the same age and we both listened to jazz growing up because our fathers did. He says in the book that he never heard John Coltrane play live until moving to California to begin college. I, on the other hand, heard Coltrane and everybody else, play many times, in two cities: NY and later in Boston, where I moved. If you were underage, the Village Vanguard was too expensive, but Birdland on 52nd and Broadway only charged students a token $1 admission and would sit you in the back of the club with no pressure at all to buy drinks (soda, in our case). The Five Spot on the southeast corner of St. Mark's Place and Third Avenue in the East Vilage was another great place to hear jazz.
The Jazz Workshop in Boston had a one-set Sunday afternoon matinee which attracted a well-dressed crowd, and I went every Sunday for years. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 771
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:18 am: |
|
Well Thank You Too.
Out of all that mess that I said, I think the one advice that I would stand on is the recommendation to seek out the Documentary by Burns.
I believe it begins in the late 1800's. It has maybe 10 episodes. Very very informative. It highlights the big players in the Jazz game. Kitty, I don't know what type of music you presently listen to but there's something for everyone.
On the arguing thing:
I've done it...I do it! I wasn't trying to elevate myself above the crowd I was merely saying what is. I do try to stay away from discussions that are motivated largely by opinion but that's just me. I do my thing from my little corner from a personal view. I try to drop a little of me into my stories so that there's little room to argue. My guy crpto hit me with "what's the point". That's one of the dangers of interjecting ones personal life into the mix. Someone can simple shout "WHO CARES". Of course I could shout back at dey black ass "WHO CARES" .
The board is a funny thing....how long have you been visiting?
It has it's ebb and flow. There's a laugh crowd and a very serious crowd. There's King Roosters that protect their domain.
I am going say this quitely....there are haters.
Some will feel infringed upon and stop posting if they think....well...I'll leave that alone.
But Kitty, I haven't labled you. You must be the one that said they had dreads...right? Yeah, you gotta be secure to wear dreads *smile*. Are you a writer?
Anyway, thanks again for the holla |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 772
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:35 am: |
|
Hello Steve
You slipped in between my response to Kitty.
I could tell you were not stating an opinion based on fluff. I knew you were into the music. One can tell a real Jazz man when he goes off on individual musicians.
I was in attendance at one of the last performances of Miles Davis. Grant Park, Chicago Ill., never will forget it. He died 2 weeks after the set.
Coltrane LIVE! Now that would have been something to hear and see. Tell me, was his problem overly apparent while he performed? Or did it change after a break?
How about some of his "riffs", I can only imagine how they must have played out in a live performance!
Great stories man! Dang, I thought I was doing something when I met Ken burns. You was in the same house with Coltrane...in the back...drinking cokes. Now that's a story. Next you'll be telling me that you shared a joint with him *lol*. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 228
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:51 am: |
|
Carey:
My listening is all over the map. My boyfriend and I hosted a party this weekend (an old school house party--you would have loved it, I think), and you should have seen me scrambling to create a playlist for my iPod. God forbid some of my Joni Mitchell, Green Day, Norah Jones, Cedarmont Gospel Kids, Barrett Black, or Johnny Cash were to come through those speakers, lol! It was not THAT kind of crowd. I even got some jeers from some drunk-ass 40-somethings (I'm 36) for not playing enough "stuff from 2008!" Silly me...I thought Motown, Ohio Players, and Sylvester were timeless. ;-)
But I digress. looking back up at your post again
Jazz...I have a very, very basic knowledge of musicians and forms, partly from some custom writing I've done for a client (To answer your question...yes, I'm a writer). But if I likened my ear to my palate, I'd have to say it's not very sophisticated. Prior to doing that project (which focused on contemporary women jazz vocalists and instrumentalists), my collection included Sarah Vaughn, Charles Mingus, Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday...much of it inherited from my ex-husband.
But I don't put stock in "best" this and that because as has been said here, it's pretty subjective; I just like what sounds good to me. But like Sabiana said (I think), there's so much to choose from, it's good to get recommendations from folks in the know. At least as a starting point.
On to TC...
Yeah, I've done the arguing thing too. It's not impossible to stay out of the gutter, but oh, the temptation! ;-)
And actually I'm commenting on online discussions in general, not just at TC.
About discussions that are largely motivated by opinion...that doesn't bother me, actually. It's when folks fail to distinguish between opinion and fact, between their personal fictions and reality, between facts and their personal grudges/hang ups/axes to grind/thinly veiled misogyny/ hypocrisy/ insecurity...that stuff I do find annoying and not worth responding to.
LOL @ you talking about the haters "quietly."
Some of the personalities here as well as the book (and music) recommendations are what attract me to TC. To answer your question, I've been posting here for a few months now, but I used to post back in 2003/2004/2005, but then I experienced a lot of personal loss/tragedy, and my attention was required elsewhere.
Yes, I have dreads, and--I don't think it's related, but--I'm secure about 99.99% of the time. For the other 0.01%, I have perfected one helluva pep talk. ;-)
Finally, feel free to label me. It wouldn't be the first time, and those things don't stick to me anyway. *wink* |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 773
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 01:41 am: |
|
Oh... you are swift.
I didn't mean to imply that I would put a negative label on you or anyone. I just meant I couldn't get a handle on the person. But since you talked about yourself and your party, you've said volumes.
I had to laugh about the drunk and his desire to hear "his" music. There's one in every crowd. You could have passed out dollar bills and someone would have complain about their's being torn.
You hit them with a little Sly huh. Yeah, sounds like my kind of party. I don't drink but I can talk and tell a few lies like the best of them. Oh yeah, music, food, women,...I am there. When the party moves to sing alongs I might even jump right in with my Ohio Players...come on now...I do a mean "it's all over"
LOL@ putting that Joni Mitchell away. Classic...said it all!
I gather your ex was older. HIs music is not common among your age group. I guess I am saying Don't hate the music hate the player, throw it my way *LOL.
I know, I was only joking...well
Yeah, I feel you, I too have little tolerance for ....all that fiction/grudges/axes/asses/thinly veiled ladies/ yeah all that stuff . See, if I wanted to cuss out someone I might come to you because you would put all that writer talk on them. That...Misogyny,Hypocrisy ass MFer type s**t.
Yeah, cut them low *lol*. If I had your skills I'd be a bad man.
You are correct, I should have said someone that states their opinion as if it's a fact and then when called on it they wish to get very defensive instead of supporting their claim with factual data.
See, I start talking and I can't stop. Hanging out with writers, what should I expect. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 331
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 01:51 am: |
|
Hi Carey,
I was still discovering all the great Parker sides on the stereo in my friend Lenny's living room in New Jersey, while going to hear John Coltrane play live in the clubs. I didn't get into classical music until much later, but unlike jazz, I learned entirely from listening to records and reading books; deciding what to listen to next and discovering what I liked the most. I had some texts and I bought mostly budget recordings.
Birdland always had two groups on the bill. For example, the Thelonious Monk Quartet would appear opposite the John Coltrane Quartet. When there was a comic, it would be a triple bill! So beginning at 10 o'clock, when there weren't a lot of people in the club, Monk would play his first set and then Coltrane would play a set, followed by an intermission. I would either leave then or stay for another half set, but I couldn't stay for two full sets because I had to take the A train to 175th St. and catch a bus to NJ in order to be home by 1 a.m. So on those gigs I never got to hear him really stretch out, say, on a 45-minute tenor/drum duet with Elvin Jones, which, according to first-hand accounts, would happen around 2 a.m. He would typically open with My Favorite Things or something similar. This was before 1965 when his music took a turn toward free jazz.
These gigs were with the quartet of McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison, and Elvin Jones, but I also heard him later when he had added a second drummer, Rashid Ali. Then I heard him in concert after Elvin had left and Alice Coltrane had replaced McCoy Tyner, and another time in concert with a group of African drummers, two bassists (Garrison and Reggie Workman) and a second tenor player, Pharaoh Sanders.
The group with two drummers, when I heard them, was playing a very chaotic style of free jazz. What first sounded like the band warming up, immediately segued into a blistering free jazz performance with Coltrane on bass clarinet, dressed in a black silk robe wearing a Chinese skull cap with a red button. The quartet with Alice, on the other hand, although free-form, was, when I heard it, rhapsodic by comparison.
I'm not sure what you mean by his problem because I'm almost certain that by that time he had quit hard drugs. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 774
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:32 am: |
|
Hello Steve, night owl huh.
Did you know that you were sitting in on some of the greatest players? Did you know that probably nowhere else in the world would there be an oppurtunity like that! A dollar!!!
I paid $10.00 to see Miles. Now kids are paying $75.00 to see Knane and Fifty.
Although I would question Coltranes "quiting" I'll leave that alone. It is a fact that Parker never quit and it is very possible that you might not even been aware that any of them had a problem. Herion is a very misunderstood drug and for the most part the average person would not even know a user was on the drug. I know most would think differently but....I will leave that debate for another time. I will say that from what I know, if one should chose a drug to get hooked on Herion should be the choice. I know that may come as a surprise to many but physically and mentally it does the least damage to the system. That includes Alcohol which many doctors/professionals deem as the real devil. Alcohol is a slow, cheap, acceptable drip to hell, and much of it's distruction is unreversable. Facts, not opinion will support this claim. It always amuses me when I see the words "hard drugs or Hard alcohol". It should say, it should say hard liver because of wet beer and chilled wine. That speaks more to the truth, real talk. But wait, CRACK is another ballgame.
Got off track:
Yeah, free jazz is difinitely subjective.
Man, stop it!
Elvin Jones and Monk, you're killing me. You actually can say you were there! Man that's great!
You are the first person I've ever talked with that can say that. Thumper's Corner...you gotta love it. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 775
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:44 am: |
|
Steve, one more thing. You said you went back to NJ. Don't even say White Plains or Passaiac. If so, don't tell me you went to college in the Mid West. Your story just reminds me of some fellows I know. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 229
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 09:06 am: |
|
Carey wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that I would put a negative label on you or anyone. I just meant I couldn't get a handle on the person.
Understood. ;-)
I had to laugh about the drunk and his desire to hear "his" music. There's one in every crowd.
"He" was a she, lol. She walked in with a full cup (a vodka and cranberry that was barely pink), announcing that she'd been drinking since 3 in the afternoon. Much of her conversation was punctuated with, "...and this is why I drink every day." But she was a fun drunk, her nagging about my DJing notwithstanding. Memorial Day weekend, she played host at a outdoor cookout...you know the one: sweating over the grill, cussing, drink in hand, lol.
You hit them with a little Sly huh. Yeah, sounds like my kind of party. I don't drink but I can talk and tell a few lies like the best of them. Oh yeah, music, food, women,...I am there. When the party moves to sing alongs I might even jump right in with my Ohio Players...come on now...I do a mean "it's all over"
We had spades, bid whist, and karaoke too. I played Ohio Players, SOS Band, and Mass Production (remember "Firecracker"?)...and guess who didn't like it, lol.
Now, by Sly do you mean Sly Stone? Not him; I was talking about Sylvester ("You are My Friend").
I gather your ex was older. HIs music is not common among your age group. I guess I am saying Don't hate the music hate the player, throw it my way *LOL.
LOL, actually he's only 4 months older than me. But we are both old souls.
See, if I wanted to cuss out someone I might come to you because you would put all that writer talk on them. That...Misogyny,Hypocrisy ass MFer type s**t.
LOL, yeah, I subscribe to the less is more school of...well, just about everything! I only cuss out people that I care about--and I can count on one hand the number of times I've done that in my life. Other folks, I just "nignore". :-D
Seriously, I've found that a lot of people really, really hate to be ignored. I have two young kids and watching them, I realize that some adults never grow up. They want attention, and will do good or negative things to get it, like kids. Some people spoil for a fight and want you to cuss them out (negative attention), so to ignore them cuts deeper than an actually cussing out.
That said, I have ghostwritten emails and letters that skewer on behalf of other people. I try to take their rage and pain and make it eloquent on the page. |
Afrika
Veteran Poster
Username: Afrika
Post Number: 110
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:06 am: |
|
Greetings,
It depends on your taste. I typical will listen to the classics. Some of them include Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Kenny G, and Wynton M.
Peace
Afrika Midnight Asha Abney |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 231
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
|
Carey, I don't know if you are a Joni Mitchell fan or not, but did you know she has a great song called, "Carey"? That Carey is quite a pistol ("Oh, you're a mean ol' daddy...). |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2958
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
|
Great discussion!
Sabiana, I second most folks' comments. Just start somewhere and go from there. Do not get discouraged if you come across a lot that you cannot connect with, or if you stick pretty close to a few artists. A lot of people have a broad range of tastes in jazz--many of them are sincere, but some folks do just like to, um, show off. But still--these people often still have a lot to share so just grin and bear their admonishments that, say, Hiroshima is not "real jazz" and use what you can!
I suggest you register with The Music Genome project (http://www.pandora.com/mgp.shtml)--it's free. Once you register, create a "radio station" with Miles Davis, or those specific Miles cuts you like. Then listen to the station for a couple of hours, like while you are working on the computer or something. Write down those songs and artists that you like. Then create stations with those artists/songs...
After a few days of this you should have enough information to start doling out some money on your collection.
I'd also suggest going to some local clubs in your city to hear and see jazz live. There is just no better way to gain and nurture an appreciation for any music than by seeing it live--but this is especially the case for jazz. (OK, I sound like one of those jazz snobs now! LOL)
OK, one more. I post some of my favorites and new discoveries on this board from time to time so some of my specific recommendations can be found in the archives. I know Chris hates NPR (lol) but it is one of the best sources I have found for hearing both the old timers and new names. Also, BBC has a few jazz channels that can be listened to on-line. These days a lot of jazz artists, especially the newer artists, also have web pages or are on Myspace where they have clips or whole pieces you can listen to so that's a good place to begin, too.
Enjoy! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2959
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:24 am: |
|
Oh. And you cannot go wrong listening to anything Steve recommends. LOL He's a walking jazz encyclopedia! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2960
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:31 am: |
|
I am not talking to FK. Why you no invite me to your par-teeee? I grill! I DJ! I clean after! I no start trouble! No more hefeweizen for you! |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:36 am: |
|
See, this is why I should have invited you, Dr. P...you up my beer game!
My deepest apologies...you now have a standing invite to any party I throw, be it in MD or PA. And maybe you can take advantage of those $39 each way fares from Southwest!!!! |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 777
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
|
Hello Kitty, Good Morning
Okay, I am telling you right now, I am going to steal "Nignore". That's a good one, is that yours?
What do you know about bid whist...huh...now come on. Do you play or are you a real player? Good bid whist players are hard to find. Individuals tip their hands when they say they like to play with a kitty...hey, play with Kitty. Anyway, a kitty is like putting coke in your cognac.
You did say you where an old soul so maybe you really do play. Spades is cool but the big boys play Bid!
Slyvester? I guess I have to turn in my soul card, don't know him. Should I run for cover after saying that. Is that like saying something like I've never heard of James Brown?
Yuck, there's nothing more ...ahhh...disgusting than a women drunk...well, maybe a husband and wife team. Yep, seen it. A family that drinks together sways together.
Your posts give me reason to smile...Thank You.
Now don't get the BIG HEAD, but I am not easily moved. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2961
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
|
Carey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_James
RIP |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2962
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
|
OK, FK! You my friend again! |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 778
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:50 am: |
|
You're killing me Kitty
A song called Carey?! Hit me with a few more of the lines. I usually do not respond well to "Carey" for various reason that I will not go on about. It's my legal name but I go by another. But come on, I am going to work you this morning. Make me change my mind, talk to me *lol*. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 233
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 11:01 am: |
|
Carey by Joni Mitchell
The wind is in from Africa
Last night I couldn't sleep
Oh, you know it sure is hard to leave here Carey
But it's really not my home
My fingernails are filthy, I got beach tar on my feet
And I miss my clean white linen and my fancy French cologne
Oh Carey get out your cane
And I'll put on some silver
Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you fine
Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine
And we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down
Let's have a round for these freaks and these soldiers
A round for these friends of mine
Let's have another round for the bright red devil
Who keeps me in this tourist town
Come on, Carey, get out your cane
I'll put on some silver
Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you
Maybe I'll go to Amsterdam
Or maybe I'll go to Rome
And rent me a grand piano and put some flowers 'round my room
But let's not talk about fare-thee-wells now
The night is a starry dome.
And they're playin' that scratchy rock and roll
Beneath the Matalla Moon
Come on, Carey, get out your cane
And I'll put on some silver
You're a mean old Daddy, but I like you
The wind is in from Africa
Last night I couldn't sleep
Oh, you know it sure is hard to leave here
But, it's really not my home
Maybe it's been too long a time
Since I was scramblin' down in the street
Now they got me used to that clean white linen
And that fancy French cologne
Oh Carey, get out your cane
I'll put on my finest silver
We'll go to the Mermaid Cafe
Have fun tonight
I said, Oh, you're a mean old Daddy, but you're out of sight
(I highly recommend you get it and listen to fully appreciate it. It's one of my faves.) |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 779
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 11:02 am: |
|
Hello All
Have you ever splashed something on the board and it came back at you. Yeah, I've done it many times.
Well, did you read my little thing about the various reasons people go to church? Well as much as I like sitting in with y'all this morning I have to move around. Yep, going to church. We call it lunch and the word.
See ya later |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 234
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 11:04 am: |
|
Carey:
I stole nignore. A commenter at my favorite gossip/pop culture blog...
http://www.crunktastical.net/
...used it once, and I about died.
I barely play bid whist. Am much better at spades.
I wouldn't elevate Sylvester to JB status, but I think he should be a part of your soul/R&B cultural literacy program. ;-) |
Sabiana
Veteran Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 234
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 01:49 pm: |
|
Thanks for everyone's input!
Basic List
Bix Beiderbecke: 'Singin' the Blues, Vol. I' & 'At the Jazz Band Ball, Vol. 2'
Kenny Burrell: 'Midnight Blue'
Sidney Bechet: 'The Sidney Bechet Story'
John Coltrane: 'Ballads'
and..... Kenny G (joking) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:45 pm: |
|
Classic Discussion.
Ferociouskitty, BBQ, drinkc, Outdoors, classic music, Spades -- you betta invite me next time too!
Yvettep, I used pandora to discover a ton of Funk Music which I never heard but enjoyed.
Carey you "paid $10.00 to see Miles. Now kids are paying $75.00 to see Knane and Fifty." that is what is wrong with the world today!
Sabiana, when I think of jazz it is the albums like "Kind Of Blue" that come to mind. Almost anyone will like this album. If they don't, I'm not sure I would want to know them -- sort of like the people who say they "hate" to read.
Sabiana, your Kenny G joe tells me you already learned something about Jazz (smile).
Have any of y'all noticed that mp3 files suck in terms of quality? I've beening listening to music derived from IPOD's or mp3 for so long I forgot what I was missing.
I did some reading because it did not make sense. Apparent music is being engineered to the stupid little ear buds everyone is running around wearing -- as a result, the music does not sound as good when played on a regular stereo system (do they still sell those).
I'm particial to like the female vocalists myself Simone, James, Holiday. My family (wife included) gets tired of me playing them so much.
Peace |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 236
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
|
Ferociouskitty, BBQ, drinkc, Outdoors, classic music, Spades -- you betta invite me next time too!
Troy, tell you what...you sponsor the First Annual Thumper's Corner Reunion, and I'll throw in my party planning skillz for free! ;-) |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 780
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:05 pm: |
|
Yeah Troy, did you notice that Kitty talked about how nice her party was but didn't really even hint that should would think about throwing anything our way. She said, "Carey, you WOULD have liked it".
Now I realize I am a newbie and she might have some reserves about inviting me but dang. I would even promise not to steal anything or rob anybody, I just would love to play a little spades or sometin'.
She did throw me a little something....A Joni MItchell song taking about an old crusty dude with a cane *lol* . I asked for it and the stud WAS being invited...somewhere *smile*...Thanks Kitty!
I am glad Sabiana showed up. She invited everyone to the party and went roller skating. She came back AND with a joke. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 781
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:09 pm: |
|
FO' FREE! DAT SHO BE NICE! MOOSIC AN EVER-THANG...yous is alrhyt. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 237
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:12 pm: |
|
A Joni MItchell song taking about an old crusty dude with a cane
Now see...I always took the cane to be something he pulled out on special occasions when he wanted to be dapper. It goes with her finest silver. ;-) |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 238
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:24 pm: |
|
I noticed that Pat Metheny's name didn't come up in this thread. I know a jazz aficionado who is a huge fan. Thoughts, Steve, Carey, Yvette, and others?
Off to listen now (I'm enjoying "Kind of Blue", btw). |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 782
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
|
Kitty, I just knew you were not going to leave that alone. I had not read the entire poem until after I penned the post. Soooo, yeah, I will agree, in my opinion the cane is not about "old". I have a line of thought but I will hold that until I've had an oppurtunity to hear it. I believe something could be missed in the translation without hearing the melody. Yes, silver being a valuable item has some significance ...I would think. She's coming back home to her friends. Is she talking to a person or....?
I have a sneaky feeling you know exactly what's going on...break it down for me...come on. I said I was going to work you today. We are still in a "music" thread so it's okay. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 239
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 03:50 pm: |
|
Carey:
When I listen to "Carey" along with two other JM songs, "California" and, to some extent, "Free Man in Paris", I get the sense she spent some time traveling around Europe, had fun and met some interesting folks, but her heart longed for home, and her mind was on the Vietnam War (Incidentally, "Carey" was written in 1971, the year I was born).
Take a listen:
"Carey"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsYN-RZeD_A
"California" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE
"Free Man in Paris"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXBba77U1_Y |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 784
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 04:42 pm: |
|
Kitty:
Thank you.
Incidentally, I too have a connection with Vietnam and the early 70's. Can't say I was born that year but something jumped off...something WAS born.
You've been a wealth of information. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3204
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 05:19 pm: |
|
Great commentary bro Steve. On the money! I miss your music musings. Yeah, I think the “Kind of Blue” recording is an excellent choice for beginners. I know I cut my teeth on that exact record. It was “Kind of Blue”, “Soul Shack” (Sonny Stitt) and “Structurally Sound” (Booker Ervin). It was my first intro and I've been hooked ever since. There is so much to delve into.
If you have noticed, there is a wealth of literature on creative improvised music that did not exist back in the day. Just picked up the “Dark Tree” (Steven Isoardi) and “Jazz, Pop, Youth and the Middle Age; Like Young” (Francis Davis). “The Dark Tree” details the music scene in LA by Horace Tapscott, UGMAA and the Pan-African Peoples Arkestra. Also, the current book to get is, “A Power Stronger Than Itself: The AACM and American Experimental Music “, by George E. Lewis. A very detailed examination and history of the AACM. And speaking of Ornette Coleman, did you know there was a book called “The Battle of the Five Spot: Ornette Coleman and the New York Jazz Field”, by David Lee? I also have “Space Is The Place: The Lives And Times Of Sun Ra”, by John F. Szwed, which is on the high priority reading list.
”I was still discovering all the great Parker sides on the stereo in my friend Lenny's living room in New Jersey, while going to hear John Coltrane play live in the clubs.”
Can’t touch that bro. I just went through a number of Bird recordings last week after stumbling across a book written by Chan Parker. I became so excited because I remember when I was a young puppy living in Ohio, I used to spend those cold winter months listening to Bird in my room. I was too young to see Trane but I greatly envy you for being able to do so. Your commentary reminded me of the linear notes written by Amira Baraka on the Coltrane, “Live at Bird land”, Impulse recording. One of my ultimate favorites. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 785
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:10 pm: |
|
Hey Sabiana,
As you may have already noticed, one has to be cautious when they decide to tell someone that they listen to Jazz. Oh yeah, if you are not careful you could look up and see NIghtline at your door. Oh yeah, there will be a couple of brothas with them. Black men wearing black tams, sporting goatees and smoking Chesterfield cigarettes. You in trouble then! If you can't answer all the right question yo' Azz is in a bind. Yes sir, if you don't know the drummer from Bo Bo Brazil's 1949 quintet you might as well kiss it goodbye.
Now it's possible you might even be able to answer that one but you ain't out of the briar patch just yet. When they hit you with "who made the reed that Coltrane used at The Cotton Club, Wednesday night, the week of his 30th birthday, you better be ready.
Think I am kidding. Damn near happened up in here. Didn't you see Steve and Crypto jump up off the couch and put on their Cool Rays. Them brothers where asleep and heard somebody say "Jazz". I locked my doors. Steve came in strong, he was in the back room shooting craps with Coltrane.
Steve came back with, "yeah I've been hooked every since parker traded me a "Trey Bag" for my sax.
Them brothers are serious about that Jazz.
I am telling you Sabiana, be careful, if you say it, mean it!
Yvette tried to pull everyones coat but see, she has been around them brothers and she obviously knows her position . |
Sabiana
Veteran Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 235
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:57 pm: |
|
billie holiday - lady sings the blues
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IUtPODn7cCc&feature=related
Blue in Green by. Miles Davis
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PoPL7BExSQU&feature=related
Carey- (I'll be careful)  |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2963
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:31 pm: |
|
Have any of y'all noticed that mp3 files suck in terms of quality?
Yes, this is very unfortunate. I've heard it is because of the format--the files are compressed so some of the nuance is lost. The benefit of mp3 format of course is that I can travel with thousands of songs in one hand-held device--Not like the "old days" where before travelling I would go through a tortured, long process of deciding which 12 or so CDs I would take with me on a trip and which of my babies would be left behind! LOL |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2964
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:46 pm: |
|
Yvette tried to pull everyones coat but see, she has been around them brothers and she obviously knows her position
LOLOL! No, no, no I am not in that league--Birdland? The 5 Spot? (FK's boytoy's back yard?) Can't compete. LOL
Actually I do have two jazz venue stories--both involving "mistaken identity":
When my husband was stationed in Germany we once traveled to either Berlin or Frankfurt where we heard Ron Brown perform. We got there late, but as we were the only Blacks in the audience everyone assumed we were relatives of his. We were quickly ushered in and shown to the front of the packed club where room was made for us!
Another time while in Germany we took a dream vacation with another couple to a week of the Montreux Jazz Festival. At one point we decided to take a side trip to a winery. We climbed all the way up this mega hill only to find that they were not doing tours/tastings that day. But then the owner saw us and immediately opened the doors to us, giving us a private tour. We just thought he was being nice, but after about our 4th bottle he admitted he had seen us on TV. TV, we thought, what TV? Well, it turns out the local station had filmed us several times walking around the various venues, again--apparently assuming that a bunch of Black Americans must be musicians or something!
(Oh yeah. And on that trip we rode in the elevator at one point with David "Hutch" (of Starsky and fame) Soul, who was on the bill. We told him we enjoyed his set, at which point he asked us when we were performing! LOL) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1349
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 09:41 pm: |
|
Yvettep, I guess when the hard Ipod that hold tera bytes of data they can lossy compression algorithms.
Ken Burns' Jazz — Kind of Blue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoAKKN_6Ysk
Man, YouTube is a great addition to the internet.
I see Kind of Blue is the best seling Jazz Album of all time... I guess saying Sabiana started off well would be an understatement. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 787
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 09:58 pm: |
|
Vette, Great Story!
Okay, mistaken indentity story time:
This story is simular to yours in that My wife and I were two of three blacks in Telluride Co., the other was the wife of Rodger Ebert, yeah, that dude is married to a black women. Anyway, the setup or pricing structure for the events (movies) is as followed. The high rollers, sponsors and such pay about $3,000 dollars for the 2 1/2 day event. This gives them seating rights to any movie any time. All seating at premieres are generally taken by these individuals. Anyone can purchase this type of ticket but part of the beauty of the festival is Q-ing up, standing, meeting and talking to all types of people. Now, there is another ticket priced at around $800 dollars, this allows you to cut in front of all the poor saps like me that feed on trying to be the first in the Q line. The Q line tickets are purchased at the window prior to the showing of the movie. There are about 8 venues each seating seating 150 to 600 people. They promise that everyone will see every movie t but you might have to stick around and be very keen. My wife and I loved the atmosphere so we would plan our attack and head out like kids on a treasure hunt. It is frequently possible that if you get locked out of one movie you might be able to run to another. But mind you, the other theater might be about 1/2 mile away, could also be 2 blocks, nevertheless you had to break brush because others are also on the hunt.
Tickets minutes before the movie are about 25 dollars each so we still where looking at $200.00 a day, easy. So, $6,000.00, $1600.00 or hit and miss, we liked the challenge.
So know that I've set this up. Danny Glover and Angela Bassit were the stars of a morning movie 8AM. So we thought if we got there around 6:30am we would be a lock to get a seat. The venue was small and we got locked out. Only premium big spenders got in. We were standing outside with our lips hanging down when Danny and Angela walked up. Angela said hello to my wife and Danny shock my hand. They asked if we were going in and we told them of our situation. Angela and my wife remained engaged in conversation and Danny and I shot the s**t.
The producer came out and from a distance told Danny that everyone was waiting on him. Danny acknowledge him and we continued to talk. The director then came out and he too told Danny that he was holding up the precedings. Danny looked at that man like "if you come out here one more time!". The men didn't know what to do, Danny and Angela were the stars. The man said, "Are those your friends"? Danny looked at my wife and I and we all said, "yes". The man ran over to us and ushered us to the finest seats in the house .
But check this out:
Once seated, I noticed a man close to me was just burning to ask me who I was. He finally got up enough nerve and said, "excuse me, who are you with"? There were a lot of production companies and news mags around and the guy just couldn't place my wife and I.
I looked at my wife and back at him and said, I am with Danny and my wife is with Angela. The man shock his head and said, "oh, I thought so". Black people, we couldn't just be there for the enjoyment of the festival....oh no.
My story, Black Man In Wonderland *smile*. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3212
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 06:49 am: |
|
"Have any of y'all noticed that mp3 files suck in terms of quality? I've beening listening to music derived from IPOD's or mp3 for so long I forgot what I was missing."
Yes. The music is grossly compressed and does not even come close to a clean analog recording or a good digital copy (MP3 320, loss less, WAV). The music is chopped and compressed so that you can load thousands of your favorite recordings onto an iPod or MP3 player. But since the marketed bulk of American music is rap/hip hop, rock and commercial, it doesn't matter. The music is so mindless and juvenile, the MP3 format is adequate and justified. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 09:03 am: |
|
The music is so mindless and juvenile, the MP3 format is adequate and justified.
LOLOLOLOL! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2968
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:28 pm: |
|
LOL @ Ntfs. But I agree: there are some genres of music that suffer to a lot lesser degree than others. Jazz and classical are hit the hardest by audio compression. A prime example: I was so excited the other day to have downloaded QUincy Jones' "Body Heat" for a summer playlist I created. One of the best things about that song, what makes it so sultry, is that echo-y quality of the vocals. But what do you hear when you listen to the mp3 file? Hardly any echo at all! Just-- I mean-- What's the point, for cryin' out loud?! LOL |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2969
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:45 pm: |
|
LOL @ Black Man In Wonderland! Great story, Carey! Also, I mean tto comment more on your funny riff from above, including
When they hit you with "who made the reed that Coltrane used at The Cotton Club, Wednesday night, the week of his 30th birthday, you better be ready.
I was not exposed to jazz in NYC (like some of you cats ), but in Indianapolis. The Chatterbox, The Jazz Kitchen, etc. My mother for a long while had a regular gig at the latter. One thing I had to get used to when hanging out at the clubs with her was how to fit in with all those jazz musicians and devotees. Your description above may sound far fetched, but it is pretty much on target. At the time (my 20s), my sole claim to jazz authenticity was having played alto sax in my high school jazz band. But you couldn't tell my mother that I was not on the verge of being some first rate musician. I would hate hate hate when she would mention to her musician friends that I "was a sax player." Because then they would invariably start in with all the questions and tests.
At some point I developed a standard line that I would deliver simply: "No, no. I dont play the sax. Anymore..." Apparently this was mysterious enough to suggest some deep creative drama in my life that I would rather not talk about. Folks would just kinda nod respectfully, like they completely understood. LOL!
(As a side note, I guess I did have a deep drama--That of hanging out with a mother that was "cooler" than me! I can think of no greater trauma as a twenty-something than to be out-cooled by your own moms! LOL) |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 332
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:49 pm: |
|
living in Ohio, I used to spend those cold winter months listening to Bird in my room. I was too young to see Trane but I greatly envy you for being able to do so. Your commentary reminded me of the liner notes written by Amira Baraka on the Coltrane, “Live at Bird land”, Impulse recording. One of my ultimate favorites.
Nfts, How are you? Yeah, "Live at Birdland" is among the "Stuff I'm Partial To" as well (to quote the title of a well-known Coltrane bootleg of "My Favorite Things.") |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3216
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:50 pm: |
|
"But I agree: there are some genres of music that suffer to a lot lesser degree than others. Jazz and classical are hit the hardest by audio compression. A prime example: I was so excited the other day to have downloaded QUincy Jones' "Body Heat" for a..........hear when you listen to the mp3 file? Hardly any echo at all! Just-- I mean-- What's the point, for cryin' out loud?!"
So true...so true. I have two friends that are ultra hard core lovers of the music. One has a record collection that can only be matched by the Library of Congress (trust me!!!!). Both have very expensive high end turn tables, speakers and tube amps. In fact, last time I was in Sacramento, my friend took me to dealer and electrical engineer friend of his who sells high end tube amps from his home. He had a Blue Note monaural copy of the Sonny Rollins classic, "Live at the Village Vanguard". Hearing it on his system was absolutely breath taking. Yes, when it comes to jazz and classical music, you can't play around. The other popular commercial noodlings are fine in their portable MP3 format. There is a difference between entertainment and art music. It should also be reflected in it's format. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 333
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:46 pm: |
|
Ntfs mentions Amiri Baraka's liner notes to "Live at Birdland," considered by many (including both of us) to be among John Coltrane's finest recordings.
The liner notes describe the author's trek from the subway to the club, which has always reminded me of the opening scene in James Baldwin's "Another Country," which I finished rereading just a few days ago.
In the novel, a jazz drummer named Rufus Scott, wanders the streets of NYC, psychologically and physically destitute after causing his lover Leona's nervous breakdown, which, either correctly or incorrectly, reminds me somewhat of Bigger Thomas after committing Mary Dalton's body to the incinerator (Admittedly, I'm overdue for a reread of "Native Son.") The main character heads toward a midtown jazz club, which, it is conceivable that Baldwin had modeled after Birdland.
Baldwin describes the "mixed crowd at the bar," which at Birdland was called the "bullpen." On the other hand, there are no stairs in the fictional club. It's the same club where Miles Davis was hit over the head by a policeman for loitering while on a break.
What Colson Whitehead wrote in "The Colossus of New York" is true. On some level, being a New Yorker means looking at a place and remembering what it used to be. I lived in same East Village neighborhood throughout the 1980s, and I would often go into what used to be the Five Spot and have my daily allowance of Vitamin P (slice of pizza), or when I was working construction gigs, buy my morning coffee and a bagel there.
I like the liner notes, but I had a roommate in Boston who used to travel to Bennington College to take lessons with Jimmy Garrison. He took issue at the criminal connotations implied by the author in his description of Garrison's bass playing. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3223
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 04:04 pm: |
|
"Ntfs mentions Amiri Baraka's liner notes to "Live at Birdland," considered by many (including both of us) to be among John Coltrane's finest recordings.
The liner notes describe the author's trek from the subway to the club, which has always reminded me of the opening scene in James Baldwin's "Another Country," which I finished rereading just a few days ago.
In the novel, a jazz drummer named Rufus Scott, wanders the streets of NYC, psychologically and physically destitute after........
......take lessons with Jimmy Garrison. He took issue at the criminal connotations implied by the author in his description of Garrison's bass playing."
Bro Steve, I absolutely love your commentary and scuttlebutt insight stories. Please continue....... |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 790
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 04:25 pm: |
|
Damn, this is some good s**t!!!
Troy drops a liitle something on the state of affairs regarding mp3s
Crypto hits back with a funny take on todays music and why some don't mind the low sound quality.
Kitty stands on the side and nods her approval, asking for more.
Vette was moved by anothers story and drops a glorious one of her own (she played the sax and her mother was cooler than she)
Steve was again wakened by hearing the word Jazz and he bounced back into the fray with his show stopping knowledge and liner notes.
Carey can't compete on the knowledge stage so he throws another joke across the table.
NFTP feels the rumble of Steve and drops a little tecnical wizard fine gizzard of his own!
Carey sits back in total amazement at the brothers and sisters that have gathered in Thumer's Corner. His brain has long been dormant but his mouth still works....he toses in another offering with hopes that the others will dine with him regardless of his flaws and he'd be allowed to stick around.
Vette throws him a bone, saying she understood his joke and pats him on the head.
Carey wonders if any of these people really have jobs.
Troy sits back and counts his money.
This is some good s**t! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12325
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 06:54 pm: |
|
Good stuff. I was vexed because my little health set backs have prevented me from posting as much and as often as previously, but I've discovered that reading what others post is equally fulfilling. I would simply add, that when I think of jazz, I go a little further back than Miles Davis who is an exponent of the cool school of jazz. What about all of the traditional and straight-ahead jazz artists like saxophoists Johhny Hodges and Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins, and pianist like Errol Garner and Ahmad Jamal and Oscar Petersen and Art Tatum, not to, mention Charlie Parker and drummer Max Roach and trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie. Needless to say, jazz is a many-faceted genre. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2975
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 10:25 pm: |
|
Well, Cynique, once again--you were missed. You know, we haven't seen Chris around these parts lately. I hope he is OK. I kind of hoped he had flown to Chicago to be by your side to nurse you back to health... ;-) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2976
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 10:25 pm: |
|
LOL @ Carey's play-by-play! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2977
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 10:59 pm: |
|
Carey wonders if any of these people really have jobs.
Carey, we on T'sC are part of an international network of ultra-powerful, independently wealthy patrons of the arts and defenders of justice. We could reveal to you our secret identities but then we'd have to-- Well, you know... |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 334
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:02 pm: |
|
Nfts, It's just a feeling I get which might not have been intended, but the liner notes also describe listening to John Coltrane as "one of the reasons suicide seems so boring," and the first section of Baldwin's novel ends in the suicide of a jazz musician.
The author describes the audience at Birdland as "America in microcosm," adding that "hovering in the background are people and artifacts that have no more to do with his music than silence."
That has always struck me as an incredibly un-Zen-like thing to say, almost self-contradictory when one considers the importance of the musician pacing his- or herself in constructing a solo, or in more general terms, the use of "negative" space in art. On the other hand, Coltrane was an avowed maximalist, with one notable exception being his playing on "Kind of Blue." So I've often wondered if that statement in the liner notes was intended as a swipe at Bill Evans who, in his famous liner notes to "Kind of Blue," described the making of that album in terms of a Japanese Zen method of painting.
Here come the terms "white" and "black." However you feel about Baraka, isn't it possible that he might not have been completely pleased with the idea of the only white guy in the band being the one to "define" the music, and with an analogy to an "outside" culture like Zen Buddhism, no less, which may have also been an unwanted reminder of his former Beat colleagues Kerouac and Ginsberg, who were fascinated by Zen, and whose admirers embraced it, though most of them probably had a very superficial understanding of it? I'm just guessing.
I think I'll hold off on discussing "Another Country" for now. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 243
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:06 pm: |
|
Carey, we on T'sC are part of an international network of ultra-powerful, independently wealthy patrons of the arts and defenders of justice. We could reveal to you our secret identities but then we'd have to-- Well, you know...
Agent Perry, you've said too much. The Commander wants to see you at headquarters...now. Word on the street is that he plans to repossess your...Volvo.
That is all. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2978
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:19 pm: |
|
LOL! You're ill, gal, ill! |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 335
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:18 am: |
|
Bix Beiderbecke: 'Singin' the Blues, Vol. I' & 'At the Jazz Band Ball, Vol. 2'
Kenny Burrell: 'Midnight Blue'
Sidney Bechet: 'The Sidney Bechet Story'
John Coltrane: 'Ballads'
Sabiana, You can listen to a lot of early jazz, including Bechet, Beiderbecke, Armstrong, et al, at this Web site, provided you have the correct Real Player/browser combination (for some reason, since I bought a new iMac, the Real Player keeps giving me "needed components not available" message. Anyway, the site is indexed according to musician and band:
http://www.redhotjazz.com/
Coltrane's "Ballads" is a beautiful recording, one of three that he made to appease the bigwigs at Impulse Records when they thought his music was getting too far out (the other two are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, and John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman)
Bechet, a New Orleanian who played both clarinet and saxophone, is considered the first major saxophonist in jazz, and his style is said to have influenced Johnny Hodges and Coleman Hawkins. He played with a wide vibrato. He was early jazz expatriate who moved to Paris early on. There's a Ken Burns series of sampler CDs of individual musicians, including Bechet. I have the Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Duke Ellington, Fletcher Henderson, and Ornette Coleman ones, they're great. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 794
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 02:16 am: |
|
Kitty & Vet...you two are stupid .
Y'all are having to much fun.
Okay, I don't want to know what you do for yours. I can't stand the pressure. What in ever it bees...keep that stroke going, don't look back or in someone elses lane. Y'all appear to have a good thang.
Pssst, come a little closer....hey, are you really...you know, hooked up with some...you know..Get Smart...007 type s**t?
Am just sayin'...you know if you are ...ahhh, just tell them that am cool...okay. I know they might be listening in so just put in a good word for me...okay!? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2979
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:38 am: |
|
Steve I LOVE that site! Hey, on that site you can see a picture of my maternal grandpappy. He was a violinist and vocalist in Alphonso Trent's orchestra:
http://www.redhotjazz.com/trentinfo.html
My grandfather, Anderson Lacy, is the tall cat in the back row, 5th from the left, with a cigarette hanging from his fingertips. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2980
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:42 am: |
|
Carey, I had the pleasure of meeting FK in person last year when I traveled to her town for a conference. This was after knowing her for years on various on-line sites. I also met Cynique during another conference. To my knowledge, those are the only 2 T'sC regulars I have met in non-virtual space. Hey, FK...I'm liking the idea of Troy holding an AALBC in-person "reunion"... Troy, get on it! |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 336
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:49 am: |
|
Good stuff. I was vexed because my little health set backs have prevented me from posting as much and as often as previously, but I've discovered that reading what others post is equally fulfilling. I would simply add, that when I think of jazz, I go a little further back than Miles Davis who is an exponent of the cool school of jazz. What about all of the traditional and straight-ahead jazz artists like saxophoists Johhny Hodges and Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins, and pianist like Errol Garner and Ahmad Jamal and Oscar Petersen and Art Tatum, not to, mention Charlie Parker and drummer Max Roach and trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie. Needless to say, jazz is a many-faceted genre.
Hi Cynique, Hope you're feeling well. As you know, Miles Davis was a member of Charlie Parker's quintet on 52nd St. in the 1940s and also a member of Coleman Hawkins's quintet before forming the group that recorded "Birth of the Cool" and played one gig. That ensemble included John Lewis on piano and arrangements, who went on to form the Modern Jazz Quartet, a group that for years, wore tuxedos and brought their own distinctive brand of "chamber jazz" to European concert halls. Likewise, Ahmad Jamal's recording "Chamber Music for the New Jazz" was very influential on Miles, who recorded Jamal's "New Rhumba" on Miles Ahead, to name one. The rest of the history you already know: for years, Miles recorded all those classic Prestige and Blue Note sides with Monk, J.J. Johnson, Sonny Rollins, Jackie McLean, et al, followed by the quintet with Coltrane and then the second great quintet with my teacher Ron Carter. So personally, I wouldn't call him an "exponent of cool jazz." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12330
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
|
Thanks for bringing me up to speed about Miles, Steve. Once he formed his own groups, to me,however, there seemed to be a correlation between how popular he was and how muted his style of playing was. What trumpeters would you classify as being exponents of the "cool" school?
And, of course, Miles was considered a sell-out by jazz purists when he later recorded songs by pop artists of the day, and made videos dressed up in non traditional garb. So this legend is not without his detrators. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 337
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 02:30 pm: |
|
Once he formed his own groups, to me,however, there seemed to be a correlation between how popular he was and how muted his style of playing was.
Hi Cynique, how are you? Yeah, he sure had something, didn't he?
After giving a cursory listen to most of the Miles Davis CDs featuring his second great quintet (the ones I listened to for this comparison test were: E.S.P., Miles Smiles, Sorcerer, Nefertiti, and Water Babies), I think that if I had to recommend just one, as of yesterday, it would have been "Sorcerer" (the one with Cicely Tyson on the cover), however, they're all great. I don't know how to describe it. It's the depth of the blues feeling along with the intellectualism inherent in the musical concepts they're applying to improvisation. I always used to wonder, "What are they doing there?" Then at times it's pure melody.
Although I haven't listened to a lot of Ahmad Jamal and probably should, I know that Miles dug him because his conception of the piano trio was orchestral. In other words, he didn't just solo on tunes in the manner of Bud Powell, he introduced vamps and other rhythmic devices to create interest and variety.
Although the cool school is usually associated with the West Coast jazz musicians of the 1950s (not always accurately), I think Miles Davis's 1948 "Birth of the Cool" band was the catalyst for that style. Chet Baker and Art Famer both held down the trumpet chair in Gerry Mulligan's pianoless quartet, although Farmer is not often stuck with the cool label.
As we know, "Kind of Blue" got musicians thinking about scales and modes rather than chords, and some examples include John Coltrane's "Impressions" (based on the changes to "So What"), Coltrane's version of Richard Rodgers's "My Favorite Things," and many others. While he didn't "invent" modal jazz, he's given credity for changing the direction of the music toward modal jazz.
The same hold true for "jazz rock" and/or "Fusion," further stylistic innovations associated with him. From "Tribute to Jack Johnson" and "Filles de Kilimanjaro" through "In a Silent Way," and "B*tches Brew" (in the jazz lexicon, the b-word has traditionally had the non-sexist connotation of "someone who plays well," although admittedly, it's a little dicey in a music that's historically been a boy's club.)
As Ron Carter writes in the new liner notes to "E.S.P." Miles had more technique than he's given credit for, however, he did use these great virtuosic saxophonists like Coltrane and Adderley to contrast his own style, which, as you say, is muted by comparison. And I have to admit that "On the Corner" was a disappointment to me when it appeared in the early '70s, but I'm not a purist by any means, I dug the early Weather Report and Herbie Hancock's Sextet and even his Headhunters band (although I'll again admit that he lost me when he went to the Fairlight Synthesizer and vinyl-scratching DJ!)
It's always great to hear from you. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 795
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 04:39 pm: |
|
Steve my man!
I have to give it to you, your post are filled with your passion for the music. I poked a little fun at your enthusiasm and I hope you knew it was rooted in envy. To be that passionate about something is just great!
I learned some things on top of being entertained. Thanks! |
Schakspir
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:22 pm: |
|
I think it's time for me to step in:
1890s-1900s
Buddy Bolden
Manuel Perez
Alphonse Picou
"Papa Jack" Laine
Bunk Johnson
Wooden Joe Nicholas
George Bacquet
Lorenzo Tio, Sr and Jr.
Scott Joplin
etc.
1910s to 1920s
Joe "King" Oliver
Freddie Keppard
Bill Johnson
Buddy Petit
Louis Armstrong
Kid Ory
Clarence Williams
Fate Marable
Johnny Dodds
Jimmie Noone
Baby Dodds
Zutty Singleton
Albert Nicholas
Bix Beiderbecke
Frank Teschmacher
Jelly Roll Morton
Jimmy Wade
Perry Bradford
Bessie Smith
Ida Cox
Jimmy Blythe
Mamie Smith
Lil Hardin (Armstrong)
Dolly Jones (obscure female cornetist)
Charlie Johnson's Paradise Ten
Fletcher Henderson
Coleman Hawkins
Joe Smith
Buster Bailey
Duke Ellington
Sonny Greer
Elmer Snowden
Johnny Hodges
Charlie Holmes(played like Hodges, but somewhat different approach; both influenced by Bechet and grew up in Boston together)
Bubber Miley
Emmett Hardy (white cornetist from N.O. who died before cutting records)
Sharkey Bonanno
Wingy Mannone
Luis Russell
Bud Scott
Johnny St. Cyr
George Mitchell
Omer Simeon
Pinetop Smith
Darnell Howard
Muggsy Spanier
Jimmy McPartland
Benny Goodman (later 20s)
Bud Freeman (later 20s)
Sidney Bechet
Don Redman
Eddie Lang
Joe Venuti
Earl Hines
Pops Foster
Ma Rainey
Adrian Rollini
Jack Teagarden
etc.
1930s to early 40s (so-called Swing Period)
Fletcher Henderson
Duke Ellington
Chick Webb
Benny Goodman
Coleman Hawkins
Benny Carter
Don Redman
Henry "Red" Allen
Mary Lou Williams
Valaida Snow (female trumpeter)
Roy Eldridge
Louis Armstrong
Cab Calloway
Red Norvo
Bunny Berigan
Earl Hines
Erskine Hawkins
Jimmie Lunceford
Meade Lux Lewis
Art Tatum
Stuff Smith (violinist)
Django Reinhardt
Stephane Grappelly
Lester Young
Billie Holiday
Russell Procope
Chu Berry
J.C. Higginbotham
Sid Catlett
Gene Krupa
etc.
1940s to early 50s (bop, jump, etc.)
Charlie Parker
Dizzy Gillespie
Illinois Jacquet(notorious squealer)
Cat Anderson (another notorious squealer)
Tab Smith
Pete Brown
Paul Quinichette
Red Rodney
Miles Davis
Lucky Thompson
Coleman Hawkins
Mary Lou Williams
Bunk Johnson (New Orleans Revival)
Gerry Mulligan
Lee Konitz
Chet Baker
Chano Pozo
Machito and his Afro-Cubans
Ella Fitzgerald
Sarah Vaughn
Anita O'Day
J.J. Johnson
Dexter Gordon
Lester Young
Gil Evans
Thelonious Monk
Ben Webster
Max Roach
Oscar Pettiford
Jimmie Blanton
Jimmy Hamilton
Paul Gonsalves
etc.
1950s to 1960s
Miles Davis
Paul Chambers
John Coltrane
Clifford Brown
Ornette Coleman
Gerry Mulligan
Paul Desmond
Dave Brubeck
Art Pepper
Scott LaFaro
Bill Evans
Louis Armstrong's All Stars
Ron Carter
Herbie Hancock
Sun Ra
Pharaoh Sanders
Yusef Lateef
Horace Silver
Philly Joe Jones
Tony Williams
Archie Shepp
Bob Brookmeyer
Wayne Shorter
Thelonious Monk
etc.
I should know more than these off the top of my head.... |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 338
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:29 pm: |
|
Great list. Strong on early jazz. After 1930, Valaida Snow is the only name I was not familiar with, and I just watched a video to learn about her. The part about the concentration camp is shocking and reminds me of the great novel by John A. Williams. I just picked up a clean first edition copy of Click Song. Should I be excited?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6e7ye-fiJA |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12336
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:58 pm: |
|
Yes, Schakspir, anyone seriously thinking about delving into "jazz" has to go way back and consider its origins and all of the spin-offs it gave rise to, particularly big band swing music.
I really liked the unique sound of the Gerry Mulligan quartet, Steve. And Chet Baker's stretching out into vocalizing contributed a ethereal new voice to the realm of jazz vocalizing. I have to confess that I was also a big fan of Dave Brubeck waaay before his "Take 5" mainstream hit. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 339
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:11 pm: |
|
Cynique, Gerry Mulligan's Concert Jazz Band was around when I was growing up and I heard them play. The quartet I know only through recordings. The contrapuntal lines between Mulligan's baritone and Baker's trumpet, both on the heads and accompanying each other's solo, really fleshed out the harmonies and made the absence of a chordal instrument irrelevant. The first pianoless quartet I ever heard was Max Roach with Stanley and Tommie Turrentine on tenor and trumpet and they didn't use counterpoint, either written or improvised, so it sounded empty, but that didn't matter to me.
Never heard Dave Brubeck play live but I used to have the clear red vinyl records on Fantasy, like Jazz at Oberlin. You know Ron Carter was friends with Paul Desmond who had a wry sense of humor. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 340
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:24 pm: |
|
Cynique, I've read the Chan Parker autobiography that Ntfs mentioned. I don't know anyone else who's read that book. Herbie Hancock composed "Chan's Song" for the movie. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6964
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
|
Jazz is dead. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3227
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
|
”Nfts, It's just a feeling I get which might not have been intended, but the liner notes also describe listening to John Coltrane as "one of the reasons suicide seems so boring," and the first section of Baldwin's novel ends in the suicide of a jazz musician.
The author describes the audience at Birdland as "America in microcosm," adding that "hovering in the background are people and artifacts that have no more to do with his music than silence."
That has always struck me as an incredibly un-Zen-like thing to say, almost self-contradictory when one ……..
………..who were fascinated by Zen, and whose admirers embraced it, though most of them probably had a very superficial understanding of it? I'm just guessing.
I think I'll hold off on discussing "Another Country" for now.”
Naaaww……I don’t think so. But I could be wrong. I don’t have the referenced liner notes in front of me. I just recall his subway ride, the trekking down the stairs to the Vanguard and his praising of the music. It seemed like the notes were scribbled on a napkin or pocket steno in an extemporaneous manner while pondering in awe at what he had just witnessed on the band stand. Although Baraka has gone through a number of political transformations -from black nationalism to Marxism, I don’t think he was making a subliminal racial comment on this particular occasion. But since Baraka has made a living from bashing whites (whether it was justly merited or not), I can’t say that it was impossible. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3228
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:49 pm: |
|
Bro Steve, recently I've been having an intense love affair with the music of Vjay Iyer and Rudresh Mahanthappa. Also, I've been documenting the videos of John Zorn and his the Masada group. Any thoughts on the aforementioned? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3229
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:46 pm: |
|
"After giving a cursory listen to most of the Miles Davis CDs featuring his second great quintet (the ones I listened to for this comparison test were: E.S.P., Miles Smiles, Sorcerer, Nefertiti, and Water Babies), I think that if I had to recommend just one, as of yesterday, it would have been "Sorcerer" (the one with Cicely Tyson on the cover), however, they're all great. I don't know how to describe it. It's the depth of the blues feeling along with the intellectualism inherent in the........"
OMG!!! I'm currently sitting in a university library in Ohio and I can't access my music at this moment. But hearing you mention those great second quintet (first group was documented on the Prestige label) recordings (Columbia label) just sent an adrenaline rush through my body. I can't express in words the exhilaration and excitement I experience when listening to ESP, Miles Smiles, Nefertiti, Water Babies or Miles in the Sky.
In fact, I love all of those incredible Columbia recordings, including the early group with Cannonball, R. Garland, P. J. Jones, P. Chambers, et al. Listening to that particular group on the record Milestones, play Milestones and Two Bass Hit, has always raised my blood pressure. And the picture of Miles on the cover sitting with his horn is too much. Damn!!!! And when ya throw in the record, Round Midnight, the cuts 'Round About Midnight, Bye Bye Blackbird, Dear Old Stockholm and Budo, leave me practically prostrate on the floor from excitement.
The Columbia Miles recordings are like crack for me. Honest confession. In fact, if you have noticed, there are a number of bootleg and open source recordings of the 60's Miles quintet that were recorded live in Europe. TV, radio and concert performance recordings (London, Paris, Zurich, Milan, etc) are available for the hard core Miles addicts. In fact, back in the 80's I knew a guy in Warsaw, Poland, who had an incredible collection of live Miles Davis concert and broadcast recordings from the late 1950's and 1960's that he advertised for sale. Unfortunately, I lost contact with the guy before I could tap into his extensive live recordings.
 |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3230
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:48 pm: |
|
"Jazz is dead."
Yep! Just like your brain. Anything else....???? |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 343
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:13 pm: |
|
Vjay Iyer and Rudresh Mahanthappa. Also, I've been documenting the videos of John Zorn and his the Masada group
Ntfs, No, I haven't listened much to these three, but I'll try to. Thanks for the heads up.
Naaaww……I don’t think so.
You're probably right about the liner notes, however, I've never met a jazz club that was like "America in microcosm," that's ridiculous, and I think he talks over his head when he mentions a "note to chord to scale reference."
Mr. Crouch, I've noticed, has a hip way of avoiding that. He collects a lot of opinions from a lot of musicians and then quotes them in his writing, which gives them some exposure and him the benefit of an informed opinion.
Jazz is dead
That's one opinion, but if it's true, then why is jazz education booming all across the country, in Europe, and other parts of the world? I'm not an expert and I have no axe to grind, however, I know that forty years ago there only a few schools offering jazz studies, North Texas and Berklee among them. Berklee in the 1970s also benefited from being a truly international school.
John Coltrane, unlike Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Kenny Kirkland - who all had early classical musical educations - received what was essentially a jazz education on the GI bill at a four year conservatory which offered a curriculum geared toward jazz harmony and included instrumental study with a symphony musician. Yeah, he was playing blues at night with King Kolax and Big Maybelle, but I'm not convinced if that alone would have made him as great as he was, and he was not the only notable alumnus.
Part of the problem, imho, is that jazz has never had any significant TV exposure, at least not recently, with the exception of the few brief pre-Eubanks years on the Tonight Show. If Dianne Reeves and Diana Krall can't get on television, then you're not going to see any instrumentalists. That's sad because as John Leland argues in "Hip: The History," jazz (and ragtime) was the product that drove the technology needed to deliver it; like player pianos, phonograph, radio broadcasts, etc., and he also considers the Internet era (although jazz is not the subject of the book). Jazz will never be the popular music of the country again, but if people are exposed to it, they will like it. It's more popular in other countries and people are playing their as*es off.
Leland also offers some conjecture about how the cultural hybrids of the 1920s gave way to retrenchment that lasted until the end of WWII. That's the word of the day.
Thanks for reading. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 801
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 03:30 pm: |
|
Now Chris, why you throw that mess up in here *lol*. Couldn't you just sit back and enjoy all the knowledge these brothers are droppin'.
They are just blowing my mind!!! I mean, I've never witnessed anyone this deep. I am enjoying being a fly on the wall.
You still my ni**er though.
I will say I've put on Tupac today...yeah, gotta go to a place to get my musical poetry on...you know, Thug Mansion. |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 344
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 10:40 pm: |
|
Ntfs, We must have cross-posted earlier because I missed your two previous entries, however, your enthusiasm has me laughing in enjoyment! Hey, I didn't know that you were at a University.
Right now I'm looking at a Coltrane discography, check this out.
Jan. 1959 -- "Bags and Trane," Milt Jackson and John Coltrane -- Three Little Words, The Night We Called it a Day (a tune associated with Nat "King" Cole), etc.
Feb. 1959 -- "Cannonball Adderley Quintet in Chicago" -- The session with what was essentially the Miles Davis Sextet minus Miles, that produced "Limehouse Blues," an uptempo 1920s number on which Coltrane first unleashes the original "Giant Steps" progression that he developed and has been practicing. OMG! Cannonball once told an interviewer what it was like "trading" with Coltrane when he was interpolating patterns like these, with their jaw-dropping complexity, however Cannonball maintains his composure and acquits himself admirably, thanks to his huge tone and fluency in the blues.
Mar. 1959 -- "Kind of Blue," the classic recording that is the catalyst for this thread, and one that I've been listening to in the car all week. Bill Evans and Jimmy Cobb have been with Miles for about 10 months now, or since a 1958 recording session at the Spotlight Lounge in Chi-town, sometime before the famous live recording session at the Plaza Hotel.
Apr., May 1959 -- "Giant Steps." The name for Coltrane's original harmonique technique or chord progression, a cycle of descending major thirds, often referred to by jazz journalists of that era as Coltrane's "three in one chord approach" (parodied in a Rahsaan Roland Kirk song title, "Three in One Without the Oil"), a relative of the cycle of fifths that Cannonball and Coltrane both employ in trading fours on "Two Bass Hit," a D-Flat blues (!), recorded in Feb., 1958 and released on Miles Davis's "Milestones" (see Man in the Green Shirt pictured above.)
Apr., 1959 -- Miles Davis with Gil Evans TV broadcast, "The Robert Herridge Theater Show, CBS Studios 61, NYC, April 2, 1959. Including "So What," "The Duke," "New Rhumba," and "Blues for Pablo" (earlier versions of which appear on "Miles Ahead.")
Nov., Dec, 1959 -- "Coltrane Jazz," one of my favorites which I no longer have a copy of, but will be on the lookout for. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 806
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 03:39 am: |
|
Man, after reading this thread with Black Siskel and brown Ebert, I'll never say I know anything about jazz. If someone even mentions the word around me I am going to run and put in a tune by Barry Manilow.
One has to be careful of what they say they can do or what they know.
I should have remembered that. I live in a state in which Wrestling is an admired sport. I boxed and my brother wrestled. He was a state champ and I was his practice dummy. Anyway, on one occasion I was working out and a few wrestlers were doing their thing in another part of the gym. During their break they had come by the ring and asked a few questions. I thought it would be sort of fun to entice one of them up into the ring. One was brave enough and stepped in. I toyed with him and gave him some pretty good shots. We had agreed that we would only go a couple of rounds and before we finished I gave him something to think about **BAM** hit him with a good hook. He lasted the round and all the boxer were laughing and giggling at ringside.
Well, then he nodded like it was a good match and invited me to come to the mat. See, I thought I could hold my own, I'd done a little wrestling and my brother was a state champ. I thought it only fair that I give it a go.
I got down in this stance that suggested that I knew what I was doing. I even put on this face like I was about to tear him a new a**hole.
I had forgot this WAS a wrestler and I'd just damn near took his head off. It didn't take but about 15 second and he had me twisted up like I didn't have any bones. I tried to act all tough but the more I wiggled the more it hurt. I even tried to hit him but I couldn't find my hands. One was punching my own booty and the other was hiding behind my scrooldum. I knew I was in trouble, I even tried to call timeout. When that didn't work I started talking tuff..."N***er, if you don't let me up from here"...he then stuck my own foot in MY mouth! I started to cry, I thought maybe he would think I was having an heart attack or something. That didn't work so I thought I'd try my best punch, my fists one more time. Wrong, I only managed to stick my thumb further up my own ass. I had forgot it was back there tickling my sack. I was desperate...I spit out my foot and did the unthinkable, I slobbered on him. Why did I do that! He did this one move and I found my head inbedded in my own crack...yep, sniffin' the crack of my own ass. I thought, "this is a bunch of s**t", I punch the guy in the face and I have to toss my own salad! Damn....
The referee finally called time and I lay there in utter embarrasment. Everybody was just rolling. They were crying with tears...holdin' their stomachs and everything.
But like a true black warrior, I got up...pulled my thumb out of my ass...released my nut sack...and said, "F**k all you MFers" and limped off to find some vaseline.
If someone ever again says Miles Davis, I am going to pretend they said Ozzie Davis and go handcuff myself to the bus! |
Steve_s
Veteran Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 345
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 08:25 am: |
|
I'll never say I know anything about jazz. If someone ever again says Miles Davis, I am going to pretend they said Ozzie Davis and go handcuff myself to the bus!
I'll never say I know anything about jazz. If someone even mentions the word around me I am going to run and put in a tune by Barry Manilow.
Now it's not about jazz any more, it's about Carey again, just hours after he expressed his creepy-ass "jealousy" of me!
Not surprised to hear you're a bully...errr, I mean boxer, 'cauze you sound like the big guy who pushed everybody around in junior high school and acted like it was his God-given right to cut in front of you in line.
Give it a rest Carey. You're like a square sitting in the audience on Central Avenue in the '40s, gettin all jeaulous of Wardell Gray and Dexter Gordon for their aerobatic highwire act in trading fours. You're like the pimp at Connoly's on Mass. Ave. in Roxbury in the '50s, complaining to the management about Coltrane's solos.
Listen up, A.H. It's not about IF I can play the blues, I BE the blues and when you hear me play you're gonna wish PAIN had stayed home and not visited you SORRY ass!
LATA |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 807
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
|
Look Steve....again something must be lost in the translation.
"Creepy-ass jealousy"..."of YOU"
My man, I don't know you.
You missed it, I was really placing you guys at the highest peak.
With your passion for the art I can see how you might not have liked a joke thrown in.
But my brother, did you take any of that like I was trying to make fun of you. That's sad...were have we gone.
Cyn-Cyn had to bring me back one time. She told me that this is Cyper-Space. A place not to take to seriously.
It wasn't about me. It was the reality that many of us "think" "I" "we" think we know what we are talking about when in fact we know very little. I was saying YOU know. I was stroking you man. I was saying this brother....these brothers KNOW there shit. I was throwing myself under the bus.
Maybe you don't like Siskel and Ebert....they were my guys. Wait, did that appear to be a joke...it was not. They were my first reference to any movie.
My man...Steve, I printed you posts. I was going to show them to my big head brother that gave me my first copy of Kind Of Blue. My brother that came home from overseas with different colors of LP's. I couldn't wait to get with him this weekend and share your post.
My man, WERE HAVE WE GONE!
No...I don't like PAIN and I may be a sorry ass but I got nothing but love for ya.
None of my post was directed at you...NONE. Again, I don't know you! However when you reply directly to me, I have to assume that you were really upset that I had stepped on your toes. I think Vette felt the groove. She laughed and came back with a story about how she cringed every time her mother mentioned the fact that she played the sax. Are you feeling me Steve.
This thing we do...this effort of sharing our views and taking a break from life comes in all flavors. It's obvious SOME get caughtup in it. Some may take it as a JOB! Steve listen, I would invite you to a party and whisper to everyone that you were the man.
I've had the oppurtunity to talk with many that have visited this board and we laugh our ass off at much that is written.
Many role play. They become someone they cannot be at home.
I know some of the hesitancy of others to post comes from exactly what has happened in your interpretation of my post. You missed something and then you came back with a vengence...you wished to argue and call names.
I don't play like that! I will state my position- opinion but stay away from personal attacks...again, I don't know you! I don't even know if you are a dude or on the down low OR have horns growing out of your head. If I did....if I did and then wanted to attack you I might then say "take that dress off and go polish your horns". But then that would be a personal attack.
Maybe some type of disclaimer is needed. Or maybe I need to have liner notes accompany my jokes.
I don't know man, you missed it and maybe I've missed the purpose of this forum.
I can probably assume that others share your opinion and I think that others may share mine. It would be interesting to know.
My hand is extended in your direction. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 808
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
|
Steve, one more thing. I've shared a few personal items on this board, I will share another.
When I was in the Air Force I was the MC for a...let's call it road show, my hook was humor.
Over the years I've noticed that some comics rely on facial gestures, some use race as a topic, others play to the mind, the intellect of the audience, and yet others use props like that Red Top guy.
I am going to assume that you might not spend one of your last dollars to go to a comedy club. Yes, this is a personal question but I am just trying to understand the man behind the screen. See, your posts are a joy and I'd hate to not be able to use your posts as a springboard for some of "my" escapes.
*Hey!....a no call list ...get it!
*Liner notes to follow. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 811
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 12:59 pm: |
|
Steve, I don't mean to beat this in the ground but I have to get this off of me!
Although this is merely a board without faces there are lessons to be learned.
I can only assume that what you post has some significance to you and maybe others.
Truth be told that if many debates that take place on this corner were being judged, many participants would not make it out of the first round. But since we are not being judge we can throw our mess on the board and sit back and sing satisfied. Do you know what I mean by that? We can sit back and bask in our own glory. No one can give us instant feedback. Thus, it's void of the residue emotions that normally follow our opinions, our emotions and feeling for the most part are then not clouded in fear.
Like in life, fear can be a strong factor in practically everything we do.
Just like here, even though some may agree or disagree with what one has said, ther is or might be concern that others might not like them or like what they say.
But again, just like in life there are some that have the courage to take the risk knowing that right always stands tall.
I hope she doesn't mind but I liked the way Kitty stepped into a discussion I was having with another postee. She had nothing to do with the arguement but decided to clear up a little misunderstanding. She stood the risk of being percieved as taking sides. She risked being allienated or being considered as disloyal. This trait that she appears to possess is not common so I understand the hesitantcy of others to stand back and hold their agreement or disapprovals.
I could be wrong but from my perspective I thought my little take on the affairs of Jazz was some funny shit, and that's the point. I recieved pleasure out of writing something that made me laugh. I went to bed laughing, not at you, not at your expense but mine. I believe you feel good about what you write, I know you do, I can feel it in your posts.
The board has moved over the years. It will continue to do so. Others have voiced their opinions, thoughts and concerns.
It could well be that I've worn out my welcome. It could be a new day. It could be that I don't understand the dynamics of the "new" board. If so, it could well be my time to say goodbye. Don't want to be a party crasher and just don't know if I fit in! |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 254
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 02:25 pm: |
|
I hope she doesn't mind but I liked the way Kitty stepped into a discussion I was having with another postee. She had nothing to do with the arguement but decided to clear up a little misunderstanding. She stood the risk of being percieved as taking sides. She risked being allienated or being considered as disloyal. This trait that she appears to possess is not common so I understand the hesitantcy of others to stand back and hold their agreement or disapprovals.
Carey, that trait is commonly known as "I don't give a sh*t." ;-)
Don't sweat all of this. Just do your thing. There are no new board dynamics that you've missed--just the same ol' same ol'.
Cynique gave you good advice: This *is* cyber-space, and personalities, identities, and attitudes can seemingly change in tne blink of an eye.
Further, this is TC...remember the "Crying Game" analogy? Expect the unexpected...shoot, any day now, I expect Yvette to reveal that's she's really one of those bitter Iowa farmers (male) that Obama was talking about...And I've met her!!!! ;-)
Don't try to make sense of it. Don't expect your ideals of fairness and reason to always rule the day. And for God's sake, don't waste your time trying to figure out what you missed or misunderstood. Just remember where you are, and you won't feel like the rug has been pulled from under you.
Live and learn.
And stick around. ;-)
Also, if you care to post your email address, I'll let you in on a little secret. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 812
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 04:51 pm: |
|
Ooouuuwheee! Okay, now I am a fence straddler...lurk and sometimes post *smile*.
Thanks Kitty, I am going to post my e-mail address. Not without some hesitation but hey, am a shit talking risk taker . I've done this before but....you know...
carey.m@mchsi.com
I am getting ready to go to a wedding...hey, free food...so maybe I'll come back and find a little somethings in my box. I've heard it said that one should be careful what they prey for so I'll just take your advice...and Cyn-Cyn's. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3235
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 11:34 am: |
|
"Ntfs, We must have cross-posted earlier because I missed your two previous entries, however, your enthusiasm has me laughing in enjoyment! Hey, I didn't know that you were at a University."
Bro Steve, I'm just accessing the internet. I used to be a student here but that was a long time ago. I just come here to do research. Not sure if I gave the impression that I'm a tenured staff member. Ha! Ha! Ha!
Anyhoo, I was combing over the latest AAJ newspaper (I love their website). Very comprehensive and informative. Their website music forum is outstanding (I write at the Organissimo forum also). Lotta interesting information can be found there. The newspaper publication (monthly) is awesome. No other publication (besides Cadence) is going to consistently have front page covers with articles to follow on such artists as Muhal Richard Abrams, Ted Curson, Ahmad Jamal, Alan Silva, Fred Anderson, Anthony Braxton, Cecil Taylor, et al. They are dedicated to reviewing creative improvised music and show casing articles on artists who are outside the commercial mainstream. I like that.
But if you get the chance, check out Vjay Iyer and Rudresh Mahanthappa. I think you may enjoy their work. You can sample it at Amazon. |
|
Email This Page