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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6503
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 03:44 pm: | 
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In an editorial board meeting with the Reno Gazette-Journal, Obama said the following about Ronald Reagan:
"I do think that for example the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."
Not only did Obama praise Reagan, but he used racist, conservative code words from the GOP play book to do it. Obama's supporters should be the first to ask him what he believes to be the "excesses of the 60s and 70s." Does he think the Voting Rights Act was an excess? What about the Civil Rights Act? Were the protests against the Vietnam War excessive? What about Fair Housing legislation, was it all too much for the Republic to handle? Was abortion legalization an excess?
"What does Obama believe to be the 'excesses of the 60s and 70s?'"
Obama's very vocal fans should speak up. Their candidate is praising the right wing rollback of civil rights. Do they think the 60s and 70s were full of excess? If so, what were those excesses? If they don't agree with Obama, will they say so? What does this statement portend for the policies of an Obama administration? It is past time for the love fest to end, and hard questioning to begin.
If Hillary Clinton or John Edwards uttered those same words they would be quite rightly taken to task. At his worst, in the nadir of his Sister Souljah moment, Bill Clinton did not dare to make such statements. Even Slick Willie was not slick enough to think he could praise Ronald Reagan and still get votes from black people.
High praise for Reagan was not the end of Obama's slide into right wing demagoguery. "I think it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10-15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom." One day Obama channels Ronald Reagan, the next he channels Newt Gingrich. It is too frightening to ask how much lower he will fall.
Obama calculates that he can get away with anything and still be supported by most black people. Unfortunately, at this moment he is correct. Race pride based on symbolism has become the order of the day though it is clearly no substitute for a principled political fight.
What does Obama have to say or do before his supporters call him out? If they believe that the warm and fuzzy feeling brought on by a black president is reason enough to support Obama, they should say so.
full article: (Some of the comments are just as good as the article) http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=501&I temid=1
Freedom Rider: Why We Write About Obama
Wednesday, 23 January 2008
by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley
Caught up and rendered silly by Obamamania, Black progressives who should know better have unilaterally disarmed themselves in surrender to a media-amplified euphoria that most resembles a group drug fest. The faculties of memory and common sense shut down, as longtime activists effectively repudiate their former lives to join the mindless bacchanal swirling around Barack Obama's thoroughly corporate candidacy. We at BAR, who have consistently held Black politicians to the standards of the historical Black Political Consensus, find ourselves reviled by Black erstwhile progressives "based on annoyance that we brought a skunk to the party." But the stink does not emanate from us - it comes from Obama's own mouth, when he praises racist Ronald Reagan and the 1990s "ideas" of Newt Gingrich, in a blatant bid to make common cause with those who wish to destroy the last vestiges of a Black Movement, root and branch.
"Obama used racist, conservative code words from the GOP play book."
Black Agenda Report is "a journal of African American political thought and action." Those words mean nothing unless we are willing to think and act in ways that the corporate media are not. Even black Americans are susceptible to the influences of a system whose existence depends on telling lies and having them accepted as truth. If that were not the case, BAR wouldn't need to exist.
When anyone is praised on these pages it is because their actions warrant praise. If members of the Congressional Black Caucus stand up for the Constitution and demand impeachment hearings they are praised. If they sell out to corporate interests and allow Fox News to control the CBC Institute, they are condemned.
This site is not called Be Nice to Prominent Black People Report. Obama supporters in particular should keep this fact in mind. Recently many of them have taken BAR to task for critical coverage of his campaign.
"The dangers presented by an Obama presidency are becoming clearer every day."
In the week before the Nevada caucuses Barack Obama responded to our critics for us. If the stakes were not so high, we might exult in saying, "We told you so." The dangers presented by an Obama presidency are becoming clearer every day, and that is no reason for celebration.
In an editorial board meeting with the Reno Gazette-Journal, Obama said the following about Ronald Reagan:
"I do think that for example the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."
Not only did Obama praise Reagan, but he used racist, conservative code words from the GOP play book to do it. Obama's supporters should be the first to ask him what he believes to be the "excesses of the 60s and 70s." Does he think the Voting Rights Act was an excess? What about the Civil Rights Act? Were the protests against the Vietnam War excessive? What about Fair Housing legislation, was it all too much for the Republic to handle? Was abortion legalization an excess?
"What does Obama believe to be the 'excesses of the 60s and 70s?'"
Obama's very vocal fans should speak up. Their candidate is praising the right wing rollback of civil rights. Do they think the 60s and 70s were full of excess? If so, what were those excesses? If they don't agree with Obama, will they say so? What does this statement portend for the policies of an Obama administration? It is past time for the love fest to end, and hard questioning to begin.
If Hillary Clinton or John Edwards uttered those same words they would be quite rightly taken to task. At his worst, in the nadir of his Sister Souljah moment, Bill Clinton did not dare to make such statements. Even Slick Willie was not slick enough to think he could praise Ronald Reagan and still get votes from black people.
High praise for Reagan was not the end of Obama's slide into right wing demagoguery. "I think it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10-15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom." One day Obama channels Ronald Reagan, the next he channels Newt Gingrich. It is too frightening to ask how much lower he will fall.
Obama calculates that he can get away with anything and still be supported by most black people. Unfortunately, at this moment he is correct. Race pride based on symbolism has become the order of the day though it is clearly no substitute for a principled political fight.
What does Obama have to say or do before his supporters call him out? If they believe that the warm and fuzzy feeling brought on by a black president is reason enough to support Obama, they should say so. They won't have to defend him and BAR can stick to the business of political analysis. Currently the criticisms directed at BAR are based on annoyance that we brought a skunk to the party, and not on any reasoned arguments.
"One day Obama channels Ronald Reagan, the next he channels Newt Gingrich."
Black Agenda Report will continue to live up to its standards we have set for ourselves. Hillary Clinton and Obama are political twins, candidates bought off by corporate interests, ready to defend the American empire by killing people in far away places or tossing black people and the rest of the Democratic base under a bus if they think it is expedient to do so. BAR will closely scrutinize both of them during this primary season.
A presidential election year is always difficult. The Democratic party is run by people who don't want it to be a political party at all. They actively search for ways to squelch activism and deny victory to Democrats who are unafraid to be Democrats. The game is rigged against true democracy, forcing us to make difficult choices and compromises instead of working for what we really want. These contradictions will not be easier to deal with if Barack Obama supporters continue to give him a free political ride.
We at BAR enjoy debating views that are passionately held. We won't take pleasure in seeing black America end up with a bad case of buyer's remorse. Passive support for Barack Obama can only lead in that direction, but rest assured of one thing. Our next president, whoever that turns out to be, will always be under the Black Agenda Report microscope. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9849
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 03:56 pm: |
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I don't know what Obama consider to be "excesses". But I believe A LOT of the social services that were wrought from LBJ's Great Society that were suppose to help Black foks have greatly contributed to many of the problems we experience today. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6504
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:03 pm: |
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You know, I can somewhat excuse the votes of the "cousin Pookie's" and "Cousin Ray Ray's" of the Black community. But those that know better, shame on them.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9850
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:19 pm: |
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Tonya,
Then you might find it interesting that more affluent, better educated foks are more likely to vote for Barack Obama than for Hillary Clinton. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6506
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:47 pm: |
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I'm sorry, and...? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9852
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:57 pm: |
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Tonya,
Exactly! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6507
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:57 pm: |
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I'm not sure what your point had to do w/mine. The Blacks who voted for Obama thus far are mostly poor and uneducated. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9853
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 05:11 pm: |
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Tonya,
There are LOTS of poor/uneducated Blacks. So there certainly will be PLENTY of such amongst those who vote for Obama. Still, Black person who supports Obama is, on average, better educated and have more money than the average Black person who supports Hillary. And the phenomenon largely holds true amongst non-Black foks. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6509
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 05:20 pm: |
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Where did you get your stats? In general Americans that support Obama are better educated and wealthier w/the opposite being true for those that support Clinton. But in the Black community, the vote is monolithic. Obama's pulling 80% of the Black vote.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9855
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:00 pm: |
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SOURCE: http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/01/exit-polls-obama-voters-smarter-more.html
Exit polls: Obama's voters smarter, more affluent than Hillary's are
++Addition++Steve Sailer excerpts from The Guardian:
"[Hillary] noticeably won the votes of those on lower incomes and without college degrees. In the words of that Clinton adviser: 'If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool.'"
---
Exit polls from the Iowa caucuses revealed one putative surprise--Obama's victory among (non-menopausal) women. As the caucus and primary-goers are even more educated, affluent, and white than are the voters who show up on general election day, and given that both states are relatively egalitarian and well-off, the demographics aren't as potentially exciting as they'll be in November.
Still, a few things strike me as worth knowing, if you hadn't already been aware of as much:
- The IQ of the average Obama supporter is probably higher than the IQ of the average Hillary voter is. He makes more money and is better educated, anyway.
In Iowa, among those making over $100,000 (one-fifth of those participating on the Democratic side), Obama beat Hillary by more than 2:1 (41%-19%). Among those making over $50,000, representing nearly two-thirds of caucus-goers (63%), Obama came out ahead, 3:2 (36% to 23%). (Click on the graphics to more easily view them).
In New Hampshire, Obama bested Hillary among post-graduates, 43%-31%. And the post-grad group isn't a diminutive one--nearly one-fourth (23%) of those who participated in the NH primary on the Democratic side belonged to it.
Among those who had acquired up to a high school diploma (one-fifth of the total), Obama got clobbered, 48%-30%.
To be fair to the Senator, she did best among old fogies, who are less likely to have received as much education and a sizable portion of whom earn incomes today that are only a fraction of what they earned in the past. However, she (10%) was pounded by Obama (57%), and beaten by Edwards (14%), among those between the ages of 18-29, a bloc that comprises 17% of the total on the Democratic side, so it's hard to gauge if she had much of a built-in disadvantage (or even advantage) in this sense, or if it is essentially a wash.
If this hold up, I suppose Hillary will win the nomination. Because there are a lot MORE foks in nation are like Hillary voters than there are those who are Obama voters. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6512
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:30 pm: |
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Abm, how does this dispute the fact that the Black vote for Obama is monolithic? That a bunch of rich white liberals are voting for him says nothing - except racism maybe, since they think he's so hip & cool.
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Nels
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:48 am: |
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Tonya, you're coming across as spiteful and unconvincing. Sorry.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11346
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 11:11 am: |
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Kinda like chrishayden, huh? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6516
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:13 pm: |
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Just stating the facts, boo-bee. 
Ain't try'na hurt nobody. Forgive me if I did.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9856
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:35 pm: |
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Tonya,
Would you assert the average Black supporter of Clinton is better educated and more affluent than the average Black supporter of Obama? If so, where is your proof THAT? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6518
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:44 pm: |
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But ABM that was my point: "But those that know better, shame on them." In other words, shame on Black Barack supporters cuz they should know better. You came with something altogether different tho. You quoted a widely reported piece of data that does not apply to the Black community. And so the conversation sorta went in that direction.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9858
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 12:54 pm: |
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Tonya,
I have seen and read that Black supporters of Obama generally do better than Black supporters of Clinton. And when I find something that refers to that I will post it here. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9859
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 01:00 pm: |
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Tonya,
Hillary's got seven years in elected office.
SEVEN.
And she got there PRIMARILY because she was married to a popular outgoing President (and was able to work the sympathy vote born of that that Lewinsky fiasco).
And that's WITHOUT adding all the flacks she's sure to catch from all the longtime Clinton haters out there who punked her husband for much of his Administration.
There are PLENTY of reasons for foks - Black and non-Black - to be suspicous of what type of president she's capable of being.
PS: It's telling how you're casting aspersions on those who support Obama.
Very telling, indeed... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6519
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 01:28 pm: |
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Sorry you feel I've slandered you, boo-bee (sigh).
I'ma be like Cly and tell you to take a chill pill ...cuz I don't know what else to tell you, boo-bee (rollin eyes).
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9861
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 02:42 pm: |
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Tonya,
And don't know WTF a "Cly" is. But if you're inspired to take a "chill pill", then I'm all for you emulating he, she or it. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11348
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:11 pm: |
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Some people seem to forget that the twice-elected George Bush was very affable and folksy, but this didn't make him an effective president.
Having a stellar personality is no guarantee that a person will be a capable leader. Moreover, Presidents always surround themselves with like-minded people so this cuts down on the conflict which can stunt progress.
How personable Hillary Clinton is, is in the eye of the beholder. She always ranks high on the list of America's most admired women. As far as the cult of Hillary haters goes, if you consider the source, she isn't any worse than her vicious detractors.
In analysing the "baggage" Hillary carries with her, it should be considered that her resume didn't prevent her from getting elected to the senate twice, and it hasn't prevented her from being a front runner among Democrats whose numbers currently outnumber those who consider themselves Republicans.
This presidential race has time-and-time again proved the experts wrong. Pundits tread a slippery slope when they try to predict what will happen in November. But that has apprently become a favorite pass time of many.  |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2604
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:13 pm: |
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Where's Canary? LOL Just as Snopes.com is a wonderful thing, so is factcheck.org. For example, here is an analysis of the whole Obama-on-Reagan "controversy": http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_slugfest.html
But just so you all know, there are pleny of good fact checking bits in response to criticisms of Sen Clinton (and others), too. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2605
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:15 pm: |
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(Cynique, can you drop me a line when you have a chance?) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11351
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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I don't have your e-mail address, Yvette. Mine is DiCon818@aol.com |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2606
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 05:21 pm: |
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Thanks! |
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