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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 996
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:35 pm: | 
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If the Clinton's manage to dupe the electorate this time, the Republicans may very well win the White House again. Smart money says the kind of enthusiasm that Barack elicits is virtually non-existent when it comes to Hillary. Regardless of who wins, the media pundits have practically ruined any chance of there being a truly unbiased election. Yeah, as if there's ever been one before.
Just a little more than a week ago, the media was declaring Hillary dead and Barack unbeatable. By tomorrow morning's news, the media will be declaring Hillary as the front runner. Funny thing, Bill Clinton came from behind to win in 1992. Maybe the writing on the wall says that Barack's destiny is the White House, and that the whole experience will end up being more than a cruel hoax on the Clintons. Does America really want change? We'll see. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 628
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:56 pm: |
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I think Hillary is conceding the black vote and will be depending on women, older voters and Latinos to win. Looks like HRC will be satisfied to get 25 percent of the African American vote.
According to news reports, she won the primary but lost the black vote badly in Michigan today.
She will probably do better in S.C. but not much.
This election is remarkable in so many ways. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11184
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:35 am: |
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I thought Hillary and Barack were on the verge of kissing and making up for the good of the party. No?
Anyway, I applaud Barak for resisting the pull of his attack dogs and resisting the temptation to get down and dirty.
Hillary was so immersed in her sense of entitlement that she took too much for granted. Now she is discombobulated and humbled. Maybe she has learned her lesson and can start realizing that you have to handle black folks with kid gloves because when all is said and done, race is thicker than politics. Perhaps swallowing this bitter pill will ease the pain of the disappointment she is experiencing from seeing her star grow dim and from realizing that her husband helped torpedo her high hopes.  |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 629
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:24 am: |
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Last night's "debate" was amazing. All sweetness and light. LOL
Did you hear how Senator Obama casually mentioned that Exxon is one of his biggest supporters? Anyone who believes he will not have corporate favors to repay if he gets to the Oval Office is living in a fantasy. Senator Obama says he wants to fundamentally change the way things are done in Washington. Is that realistic while folks like Exxon is greasing his palms? Senator Obama reminds me of GWB is so many ways...
I think a sense of entitlement is a good thing-as long as you are willing to work for it. HRC wants the Presidency badly. As I said before, not sure Senator Obama has the same fierce ambitions.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6407
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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"I think Hillary is conceding the black vote and will be depending on women, older voters and Latinos to win."
Which is exactly what she should do. Blacks folks decided to vote against her NOT BECAUSE OF THE FACTS but because of some straight up nonsense that STEVE HARVEY and others fed to them over the radio. So they deserve to be ignored...if they gone fall for the dumb shit. We got Black women and children dying from AIDS and a whole host of other social, educational and economic ailments, and all Black folks are worried about is some Black dude getting his feelings hurt??? Well then they deserved to be ignored. And any angst over it should be blamed on the fake ass Black misleadership.
"Looks like HRC will be satisfied to get 25 percent of the African American vote.
According to news reports, she won the primary but lost the black vote badly in Michigan today.
She will probably do better in S.C. but not much.
This election is remarkable in so many ways."
This one was just butt ass stupid. And any fallout from it should be blamed on Black misleadership, as well as the consequences Blks might end up having to pay.
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2550
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:16 am: |
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I find a turnaround from automatic support of the established Democratic machine refreshing. (Assuming that there has been a "turnaround" and that this is the or a reason for it...) I disagree that Blacks who may be turning from Clinton are not looking at "facts." One could just as easily say that stating that either Clinton has done a lot to support Black people and Black causes flies in the face of facts. "Facts" alone are plentiful, on all sides.
We can only hope to gather as many as possible--including those that are contradictory--then apply our own ability to weigh them and decide based on our hearts and minds. That is what I am doing and I give everyone else that benefit of the doubt as well, even when they do not support my candidate.
I also find it helpful to make a distinction between everyday, rank and file supporters of any particular candidate on one hand and long-term, "professional political insider" supporters on the other. I do honestly feel that everyday folks have the right to support whatever candidate for whatever reason--including biases and "lack of logic" as might be interpreted by others. I do hold leaders to a somewhat higher standard of authenticity in their support or lack. Thus, I find myself critiquing "leaders" for stances in a way that I never would my family, friends, colleagues, or folks here on this board.
I appreciate some comments Rev. Jackson and younger Jackson made on this point of established Black leadership recently:
“Hillary has great affection among African-Americans,” the elder Mr. Jackson said. “My wife has known Hillary more than 20 years. Her work with the Children’s Defense Fund, Marian Wright Edelman, legal assistance for the poor — these are fairly strong ties. Most people I know are in this kind of one-two posture: Barack one, Hillary two. Hillary one, Barack two. It’s not a hostile decision that many people have made.”
But Mr. Jackson’s son said the historic nature of Mr. Obama’s candidacy meant that black leaders would have to ask themselves, "Where were we? And what do we tell our children?" Then he added, “What’s the answer? That ‘I had a longstanding political commitment and a deal that dates back to when a road was built for me down the street and I got some sidewalks?’" (http://tinyurl.com/3dfnvu)
Now that's good stuff! What a wonderful campaign season! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6408
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:19 am: |
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My most memorable part of the debate was when Barack Obama felt it was smart to BRAG about having ZERO organizational skills. Did he forget where the f\uck he was??? Look, you can't make that kind of stupidity up. It ain’t a lie people. The white man ain’t lying on him. You can’t MAKE that kind of shit UP.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9812
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
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I didn't see the debate (A Black father helping his Black daughters with their homework. Imagine THAT.). So I can't/won't comment on what happened lastnight.
But in regards the issue of whom Black foks should support, I have a very simple/basic question: What has Hillary Clinton HERSELF (NOT via Bill) done for BLACK foks that is materially, discernably and quantifiably SUPERIOR to what Barack Obama has done for BLACK foks?
Shouldn't Black foks receive a valid, pro-Clinton answer to that question PRIOR to deriding other Black foks for supporting the first (semi)Black person to appear to have a legitimate shot at becoming president?
Or is Hillary "entitled" to Black support simply because she's WHITE (and, thus, simply MUST be inherently smarter and more capable than a Black man), female, older, been on the national scene longer and is married to the beloved honorary kneegrow Bill? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6411
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:35 pm: |
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My bad, that post was just my reaction to the debate...it had little to do with my prior post concerning the latest controversy.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9814
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:39 pm: |
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Yvettep,
There is LOTS of things about the HISTORY of the Clintons that suggest that Black foks should think double overtime about supporting Hillary:
@ 1992 Presidential candidate verbally castigating Black female rapper/activist Sistah Souljah to curry the favor of fearful, racist White voters
@ President Clinton signing off of the very racially-motivated Welfare Reform
@ +150,000 increase in the number of Black men incacerated during the Clinton administration which directly related to Clinton signing off on Get Tuff on Crime bills that resulted in onerous mandatory minimum crime sentences to 100,000's of Black men, many of whom were NOT violent offenders
@ Allowing, if not outright participating in, the sabotaging and character assassination of some of his most esteemed and prominent Black supporters like Dr. Jocelyn Elders, the late Ron Brown (Hell, you might recall foks actually speculated the Clinton's had Brown KILLED), Lani Guanier, Ron Espy, etc.
There is NOTHING on Obama's actual RECORD as a politician or citizen that comes remotely CLOSE to what the Clinton's have pulled on Black people. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2551
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:17 pm: |
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ABM, yes I agree that these are some things that could be considered when evaluating HRC as a potential presidential candidate. Part of the challenge is that, of course, these were not her own actions. But at the same time, she is claiming her time as First Lady as experience qualifying her for office as President. Yet it is not always clear what, from BC's presidency, she supported or even helped with and what she did not. And as I understand it, any official documents that might clarify this are not being made public.
Bottom line is: It is VERY difficult in the current political climate to gather, fact-check, and reflect on all the potential information out there. Which is why I don't find it highly troubling that some (or many) folks rely on gut instinct, emotions, or other decision rules.
I have a fantasy where candidates have to compete in a reality show type environment on an island somewhere, without advisers and spin folks and access to polling data and all the rest. Just them, talking to each other and solving problems together and even fighting each other--but in a way that is stripped of all the layers that currently are between them and the rest of us...
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6413
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:23 pm: |
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I think some Black men are a little jealous and even somewhat bitter towards Clinton, because he was once referred to as America's first Black president. It's understandable; sort of like some Black women's response to Hallie Berry being hailed as America's most beautiful Blk woman, even though she looks nothing like most Black woman. But this is different. It literally involves life & death for millions of Black people. So it really is not the time for bruised egos/injured feelings.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11185
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:43 pm: |
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I agree with your making a distinctioin between the rank and file black voters and the ol pols, Yvette.They're motivations are different.
Where Hillary is concerned, apparently some of her detractos want to have it both ways. They lump Hillary with her husband, making her his co- conspirator when it came to his machinations while in office. But when she attributes her experince to having been a part of the Clinton team, then they want to dismiss this. They say that they don't expect Obama to look out for black interests if he's elected. Yet they fault Hillary for supposedly not looking out for black interest before she's elected.
Sistah Soujah suggested that instead of shooting each other, blacks should go out and shoot white people. To be reprimanded for this inflammatory statement is no crime.
Law Professors Lani Guinere's appointment to head of the civil rights commission was rescinded because of papers she wrote where she contended that there were positions and offices that only black people were qualified to fill and Clinton thought this was an inappropritate stance for someone in charge of civil rights. Debatable.
I always liked Jocelyn Elders for being forthright and for being born 3 days before me. She did get stiffed. IMO. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9815
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:51 pm: |
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Yvettep,
They can't have it both ways. They can't give her credit for the positive things Bill did without also tainting her with some of his sh*t.
I am inclined to choose to not give her credit for a dayam thing she was not elected or formally appointed to do. But if you do that then, really, WTF reason is there to vote for her as President? Because even her position in the Senate is based PRIMARILY upon her being the sympathetic, cheated-on wife of a president.
It's really almost IMPOSSIBLE to evaluate her sans being Bill Clinton's wife.
And foks can read tea leaves or listen to sea shells to pick their president for all I care. It's when foks hurl lies, half-truths and baseless accusations that motivate me to inject some balanced facts and truth into the discourse.
I have some fantasies too about islands and such. But the kinds of access and stripping I have in mind ain't got a dayam thing to do with politics.
*wink* |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9816
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:59 pm: |
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Tonya,
And I can't speak for other Black men. But I can catagorically declare that I am not in the LEAST bit jealous of Bill Clinton. Never bought that sh*t about his being the first 'Black president' and laughed outloud at kneegrows dumbe enuff to think otherwise.
If anything, I feel sorry for Bill.
Because he had every facility to be one of our great presidents. But when he got a chance to do so, he (or, I guess, techincally, Monica) blew it.
I know that.
You know that.
HE knows that.
Hell. THAT'S why he want so desperately for Hillary to win: So he can put a positive spin to a presidency that, because he lacked dyck control, will forever be TAINTED as only the second to be IMPEACHED and was the ENABLYING precursor to that ravenous, greedy, bloody HELL we call George W. Bush.
And if you strapped Bill into a chair, injected him with truth serum, held a gun to his head and demanded he declare what living person he most envied, I'D bet you your left tit (you know, the pierced one) he would, dipping with envy, admit it's BARACK OBAMA. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2553
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 02:04 pm: |
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It took you more than a half hour for you to go "there" with your comments. You're slipping, ABM. Now stop all your winking and get back on topic! LOL
Cynique, likely we disagree w/r/t Lani Guinier. This was not the reason (IMO) she was dismissed, nor is this an accurate (IMO) assessment of her body of legal writing. As an aside, I found her book "Lift Every Voice: Turning a Civil Rights Setback Into a New Vision of Social Justice" and interesting read.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9817
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 02:09 pm: |
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Yvettep,
Lani Guanier was discarded because the GOP wanted to use her to punk Clinton and damage his standing with Blacks and liberals.
They achieved the former, though, I guess, not the latter. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9818
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 02:11 pm: |
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Yvettep: "It took you more than a half hour for you to go "there" with your comments. You're slipping..."
Yeah. I guess old age is finally beginning to catch up to me.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11187
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 02:48 pm: |
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Well, I remember when the Lani Guinere incident generated so much publicity. I do recall that Clinton was reprimanded for not making himself more familiar with statements she had made in her previous writings before appointing her to the civil rights commission. I'm sure appeasement figured into Clinton's decision to rescind her appointment because of those who thought Lani represented special interests.
Lani became a cause celebre for blacks and liberals, but she was not entirely blameless because she never recanted what others be regarded as an attitude that was an example of reverse racism. Lani was a classmate of the Clintons at Yale, and he sought her out for the job. His betrayal of their friendship is what some said was treacherous about the incident. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 997
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:30 pm: |
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IMO, the Clinton's have (become) "masters" of deception. Now, the key is figuring out exactly what their next deception will be. |
Satina
Regular Poster
Username: Satina
Post Number: 54
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:29 pm: |
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I think it will be a shame if Obama doesn’t win SC. (A state the only other black presidential candidate swept over 20 years ago.)
What sucks is that a lot of black people said they won’t vote for him because he’s not “black like them” or “authentic black” which is silly and ignorant as hell. If he was raised in the projects, would that make him black enough? How about if his mom was a crack head, had two or three baby daddy’s and he was raised by his grandmother? Would he be in there then? I can go down a whole list of stereotypes to compare to. Most blacks, IMO don’t even know what it TRULY means to be black. It shouldn’t be implied that being black enough means that you’ve gone through a great struggle. And if Obama isn’t black enough, then HRC is? What’s seems like inside-out, upside-down, backwards-ass, reverse racism is the fact that blacks won’t vote for him BECAUSE he’s black. Now that’s just crazy!
From my observation, it has seemed that traditionally black people have always rooted for other highly qualified blacks when the stakes are high in various competitive situations. In this historic presidential election, most are doing the complete opposite. A lot of you have probably rooted for a brother or sister just to even the playing field. Case in point: the black community’s overwhelming support of OJ’s guilty ass 11 years ago. Most blacks turned a blind eye to the facts in that trial because of historical resentment from black men being unfairly jailed, murdered, set up, and lied on by the legal system and law enforcement... Now in 2008, we have a qualified man running for president (who happens to be black) and we don’t vote for him just because….
Now that’s progress. |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1133
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:57 pm: |
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polls show Obama leeding in SC an 70% black backing him so your way behind Satina an if kola boof is behind him an shes the won who invented prhase 'authentic black' then I dont care what the self-hater says |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1134
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:58 pm: |
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btw you need to read this I almost sworn kola wrote it but no Nathan Mcall link:http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/01/16/mccalled_0117.html |
Satina
Regular Poster
Username: Satina
Post Number: 55
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 01:36 am: |
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Enchanted you said it so it must be true right? The fate of the nation lies in your hands.
I hope the prediction isn't a spread from the same people who had Obama beating Hilary by at least 10 percentage points in New Hampshire. That was a sure bet ey? Now I didn't say he couldn't win SC, I said it would be a shame if he didn't.
Thanks for the refresher, but I think e v e r y b o d y on the board knows that Kola coined the phrase authentic black?
Self hater? Me? Oh no!
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 630
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 08:28 am: |
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In this clip it sure sounds Senator Obama is praising the man who brought us the "welfare queen"
http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/16/ronald-reagans-slipping-halo/ |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6415
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 12:55 pm: |
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Has Nathan McCall ever written anything from a female perspective? I read two of his books and they were both about Black men. Anyway, I heard he made a joke out of Black people in his latest book, and some folks aren’t laughing.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/23/RVVET50DI.DTL
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6123
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 01:29 pm: |
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If the Clinton's manage to dupe the electorate this time, the Republicans may very well win the White House again.
(I would dig up Strom Thurmond and vote for him before I voted for that pile of Toxic Waste, Hillary Clinton) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6126
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 01:40 pm: |
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On Sunday morning - amid intensified crossfire between Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Obama over the use of race in the Democratic presidential campaign - Wright was preaching from the Gospel of John, using his powerful style to link the story of the loaves and fishes to a contemporary political message.
Man should not put limits on what God can do, but that's what people always do, he told the crowd. Just as God made five loaves and two fishes feed thousands, God has provided liberators for blacks in the past - from Nat Turner to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., and now Barack Obama. But, Wright said, there were always reasons not to follow them.
Some argue that blacks should vote for Clinton "because her husband was good to us," he continued.
"That's not true," he thundered. "He did the same thing to us that he did to Monica Lewinsky."
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11200
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:21 pm: |
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Why do you think that you are right and so many others are wrong, chrishayden. Besides the tired old imagined slight about Lani Guinere and sistah soljah who suggested that instead of shootin each other, blacks should go out and shoot whites, be specific as to how Bill Clinton screwed blacks? What president in the last 50 years has done any more for blacks than Clinton??? Your hate for him is pathological. You are in the same category as the steely-eyed right wing conservatives. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 998
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 10:07 pm: |
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Satina --
"What sucks is that a lot of black people said they won’t vote for him because he’s not “black like them” or “authentic black” which is silly and ignorant as hell."
That's the sad part. They've been bitching and wining for hundreds of years and now when the first viable black candidate sans Colin Powell runs for office, the morons can't demonstrate even one iota of common sense by at least looking at the bigger picture. Sadly enough, they'll all end up voting for the Clinton's and won't see nary a thin dime of economic prosperity come along for at least the next twenty years. That said; all they will be able to afford by then is fried chicken and watermelon. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6142
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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first viable black candidate sans Colin Powell runs for office
(Uncle Colon never was a viable Candidate.
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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 09:25 pm: |
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Chris --
"Uncle Colin never was a viable Candidate."
He was as viable as they get. |
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