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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 786
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 10:15 pm: | 
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This should go without saying but just in case; there is nothing wrong with reading book written by white folks -- I've even encourage it on the pages of AALBC.com, from time to time. That said...
I recently spoke with respected and talented author Gloria Mallette (http://authors.aalbc.com/interview_with_gloria_mallette.htm). We were talking about the Harlem Book Fair (a story all by itself) and other things.
Gloria related to me several experiences where she encountered readers who said that they can not find a “good book” written by a Black author.
Obviously there are good books by Black Authors, but the perception, at least to this reader, is that there are not.
I’ve heard this from other authors and readers alike: the overwhelming majority of books pushed are the of the urban or erotic genre.
To quote Gloria:
quote:In fact, three weeks ago I went into the mall up here in Stroudsburg (PA) and saw for the first time that two AA vendors had set up inside the mall. I spoke to one because I saw that she had Nubian Heritage products and as well books. The only books she had were urban and erotica. Well, she told me that she and her husband were planning to stop carrying books because they weren't selling. Big surprise.
I told her why. Not to mention that she was selling books in a community of 75% white and of the 25% AA who came through that mall, these weren't the people buying urban and erotica. These were middle and upper middle class AA who'd relocated from NYC and Jersey who were hard working folks. When I do signings in that mall and in the local library, I do pretty well with my titles, but this isn't the community to sell urban and erotica.
I often hear stories of editors who tell writers to add more sex into their novel to make them more “commercial”.
I don’t know about you but this sounds like a business opportunity to me: Start a publishing house where you publish good books that are not in the urban or erotica genre.
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 10:50 pm: |
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Troy,
You and others have a point, but why do our books have to conform to a standard "acceptable" by whites? Why is it always either or? Either you AA's make your( TV, Songs, Movies, BOOKS) palatable to suit our tastes or don't expect us to even look at them.
But we have consumed white people's trash,(TV Reality shows,Movies, and books--the Godfather, Carlito's Way,Scarface(their equivilent to urban fiction by the way), and many many others too numerous to mention. No one asked AA's if we wanted thier books and movies sold in our neighborhoods, if they didn't need our dollars,why not keep them in suburbia? Or paraded their naked behinds up on the screens, both big and little, etc. Why should we continue to apologize and ask what white people want from us? Why should we care?
There are PLENTY of AA books that are not urban or erotic. And what is erotic anyway? Two adults meeting, either falling in love or just having sex because they meet and are horney? This is what HAPPENS when adults meet. Why is it EROTIC when sex appears in an AA NOVEL but it's just sensual writing, in whites? I AM SICk to death of this type of stuff! Really.
The continual Double Standards are one of the reasons we haven't seen an honest AA sex scene in a movie sense Jason's Lyric! And THAT wan one of the best scenes I've seen white or black.
Stop apologizing people and point people to other books. Like Trisha Thomas, Nappily Ever After, Tananrive Due, all of her novels,Walter Mosely, Alice Walker,Kimberly Lawson Roby, Terry McMillan, BeBe Moore Campbell, and the list goes on and on...
The advent of self publishing HAS produced many many urban novels but SO WHAT? Let's not forget until Terry McMillan, we were HARD PRESSED to find a novel by an AA fiction author, IN ANY LIBRARY much less a bookstore. Give us time. Give us money. Our books and authors will continue to evolve. Right now It is what it is. Let's deal with it where we are.And let time take care of the rest. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9703
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 11:59 pm: |
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I hear ya Troy! If I could've just won this week's 250-million Megabucks lottery I'd have considered investing some money in establishing a small black publishing house that would cater to the reading tastes of a broader spectrum of the AA population. Let the white publishers perpetuate mediocrity, and the self-published authors glut the market with their amateurish tripe. As a gift to posterity, I'd take up the slack for discriminating black readers who long for more substantive matter to spend their time and money on. And to ensure the success of this project, I'd personally stop dabbling in my own self-publishing, and become an editor! LOL. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1844
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 07:06 am: |
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Oh, I must mention Tina McElroy Ansa, she is one of my favoriter writers, Eric Jerome Dickey,then there are a WHOLE LOT of AA Christian fiction out there, which some houses are embracing. One day this week I'm going to compile a list of books and their authors and post it who are VERY TALENTED, do not write urban or "erotic" fiction and are not self published, (although self published does not necessarily always equal poor writing.) So people can quit saying that the former is all that's out there.
Also what makes an urban fiction self published novel poor quality is poor or absolutely no editing. Editing is MORE THAN (but yes definitely includes) correcting typos, and correcting spelling errors. It includes correcting grammar, syntax, content, flow, asking the proper questions to bring out the best in a story, etc.
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 787
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 07:58 am: |
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A_womon, I'm afraid you missed the point. I was not trying to draw a connection between white tastes and how the urban books are crowding out books by Bernice, Glora, Tananarive, Tina, etc.
I only mention white book because that was percieved as an alternative to the lack of available choices of Black books.
I'm also afriad and the vast majority of other people who expressed an opinion may have missed the crux of Chiles point.
Cynique understood what I was saying.
Sure, just a few years ago the majority of the AA reading audience was ignored because only the "literary" authors had a slim chance of getting published.
Today it is the opposite. Literary authors struggle to get published and even when they are published, there is little in the way of promotion by the publishers and in turn the book sellers.
As a result, those books are not discovered by your average reader. Hence the "assumption" that there is only urban or erotic books from which to choose.
This assumption would have been completely supported by this years Harlem Book Fair for example. This was the first years I've heard more than one person say that they could not find anything they wanted to buy.
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:07 am: |
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I did see your point Troy and I acknowledged that in my first sentence:
Troy, You and others have a point.
However, I am worried about the move to discredit anything that does not meet some preconcieved standard. I agree that there is a
glut of sub par novels out there. And writers need to understand that just because you type a story on your computer and spend money to have it printed, this does NOT make you an author in the professional sense, nor will you be recognized as such, even if the subsidy publisher does get you on Amazon or Ebay. Professioal writer's books are well edited, proofed several times, rewritten several times and professionally packaged and marketed. If your novel lacks the polish it could recieve by professionals or even privately obtained editing services, you will not be viewed as a proffessional author and many doors will be closed to you and your book(s).
Now there are ALWAYS exceptions and these are well known. But aspiring writers should know these are only EXCEPTIONS not the rule.
I do know what you mean, Troy. But to me the problem stems from bookstores (and other arenas of entertainment) that really do not want to acknowledge the diversity in our writing and only want to make room for "one" ( Example only one AA male star to be featured in movies at one time, ie, Denzel, OR Will Smith OR Samuel L,etc But never in a movie together, or FEATURED in a movie more than one at a time(2 at most) per year or season) This is the same mentality in bookstores, Ok, the urban and erotica are popular and SELL WELL so let's spend MOST of our allotted dollars on that and ignore all other AA authors. Instead of having sections: AFRICAN AMERICAN URBAN,EROTICA,DRAMA, SCIENCE FICTION,MYSTERY, ROMANCE etc.
Why shouldn't we push for solutions like this instead of saying let's do the same thing the major bookstores are doing? Let's start a store that excludes instead of Includes.... |
Bookgirl
Regular Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 133
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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"This was the first years I've heard more than one person say that they could not find anything they wanted to buy."
I heard that over and over again from my friends who attended HBF this year. The only book that my niece brought back home with her was Charlie Rangel's and she usually comes home from HBF with a shopping bag full of books. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9705
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:31 am: |
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The "problem" as you just stated it, a_womon, is why Troy said: "I don't know about you but this sounds like a business opportunity to me: Start a publishing house where you publish good books that are not in the urban or erotica genre."
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 01:45 pm: |
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The "problem" as you just stated it, a_womon, is why Troy said: "I don't know about you but this sounds like a business opportunity to me: Start a publishing house where you publish good books that are not in the urban or erotica genre."
True, but where we differ is on the solution:
Mine: Have a section or (entire bookstore) where the diverse genres are separated and made available for perusal by general public--do NOT exclude any authors, including writers of erotica and urban fiction, but have a BALANCED MIX of all.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9706
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 04:37 pm: |
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Yes, it's all about the bottom line, about seeing an opportunity to start up a business that will supply a demand. Taking advantage of the void in the black book market is something that has a profit potential for both publishers and book stores if - there is, indeed, a growing interest in literate black books. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 789
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 09:16 pm: |
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I've told this story before, but I set up my first table at the Harlem Book Fair in 2000: http://events.aalbc.com/harlem5.htm
I had a bunch of titles written by John A. Williams. People were happy to see them. The last time I vended was in 2005. No one who came by my table knew who John A. Williams was and nobody seemed to really cared... Admittedly I'm not the world's greatest sales person, but there was a distinct difference in the tastes of the reader from 2000 to 2005.
So this issues cuts both ways.
If you have time review my best sellers lists over time You can start at 1998 http://www.aalbc.com/books/1998by.htm and go all the way to the most current list Aug/Jul 2007 http://www.aalbc.com/books/julaug_2007.htm you will see a distinct trend. Also keep in mind the number of book and the number of different titles has continually increase over the years. That is to say that the trends are actually more stark. Than what the list shows.
Consider that the all time best selling book on AALBC.com is Confessions of a Video Vixen.
A_woman perhaps one reason you don't see Denzel and Will Smith is because they command high salaries. Have you seen Talk to Me -- a very good movie with several excellent actors...
I mention this to say that the causes of the current dilemma are not always obvious. As a book seller, I can tell you there is a LOT of pressure to sell the commercial stuff. The readers demand it, the authors are typically more aggressive at promoting their work, and encouraging you to sell it. Most ad dollars spent on AALBC.com, for example, are spent on commercial not literary fiction.
So, what I saw at the Harlem Book Fair this year is no surprise. Right now I see this trend continuing and getting stronger at least for the next few years.
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Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:43 pm: |
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Speaking as a publisher and not an author, I disagree with the assumption that most publishers are only doing urban and erotica books. Under my imprint at Simon and Schuster, we are doing 60 books this year, basically a book a week. Out of those 60, less than 10 would fall under the urban or erotica genres. We are actually doing several non-fiction books this year, compelling memoirs. Sonsyrea Tate, an editor for The Washington Informer, and author of "Do Me Twice: My Life After Islam" is already getting death threats and her book just came out.
One of my authors, David Valentine Bernard, received a coveted "starred review" from Publishers Weekly for his literary book "Intimate Relations with Strangers." Rarely does Publishers Weekly give starred reviews and even more rare is them giving one to a book written by an African-American. David was at the Harlem Book Fair but left early because nobody was picking up his book. The people there were actively seeking urban and erotica books. My erotica author sold out of all of her titles while David sold two or three. The author of "In Love With a Thug" was not even there but we sold every copy we had of his book before we could even finish setting up the table good. I am not making a blanket statement that every one there was looking for urban and erotica titles but things have certainly changed in the past years at the fair, as Troy mentioned. However, I would be remiss not to mention that at least some people are now reading that were not reading a thing before and that can never be considered a bad thing. People have the freedom to make choices in this country.
People can slice it up any way they want to but the problem does not lie solely with the publishers. It is a butterfly effect and all about supply and demand. Readers purchase what they want to read, bookstores push what is selling and publishers try their best to maintain a balance between what is selling and what they are passionate about publishing.
Personally I think a lot of books are being called urban and erotica for the sake of trying to sell books that are not really either one of those. Books that would have been called romance novels five years ago are now being called erotica. Either way, all of this will surely die down just like the self-help/how-to books that dominated shelves a few years back.
Zane |
Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:45 pm: |
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Let me add that I do not think Mr. Childes was onto anything except trying to condemn people--myself included--because he was bitter about his own career. I read that article when it first came out and it felt like a crab was on my back trying to pull me into a barrel. Did it negatively influence my career or anyone else he wrote about? Absolutely not. In fact, if anything, people started scouring the Internet and stores looking for the books that would cause someone to write something so negative and controversial about them.
Zane |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9711
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:05 pm: |
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When all is said and done, it looks like only time will bring about change when it comes to uplifting the reading habits of the black masses. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. If he ain't thirsty for literary liquid, he ain't gonna lap it up. And so it goes. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 790
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 11:26 pm: |
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Childes did indeed come across as Cosbian, bitter and yes even jealous. He, and by extension, his position was so difficult defend because it came at the expense of so many authors I respected and who wrote good books.
Fast forward two years, and place Childes bitterness aside for a moment, you can not ignore the trend that we are seeing which is manifesting in book stores, street fairs and web sites daily.
Zane, I would not put the current trend in the same basket as I would with the "self-help/how-to books" book of previous periods. The main reason is that the magnitude and velocity, fueled by technology, is so much greater. I would liken it more to gangta rap; started in the 80's, and is now predominant in our music almost a quarter century later.
I’ll quote you regarding David Valentine Bernard’s novel in my next newsletter. I think there are still a few lovers of literary fiction who subscribe to the newsletter 
Cynique, I just hope time does not lead us to the point where the literary pond has dried up.
Note from Troy: Earn $7.50 buy rating this post -- seriously <img>
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 08:07 am: |
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Troy,
There is no info on the link about why you would get paid to post or anything. How do you know this is a legitimate offer? I'm not being funny I'd really like to know more about this before I plug in anything about my paypal information. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1849
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 08:26 am: |
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The thing that bothers me about the offer above is it says "take advantage of the offer designed especially for you" in the steps you have to take to get paid. This sounds similar to the surveys that say you get paid for each survey you take, but you have to SPEND money constantly to get paid. For example: The survey promises to pay you five dollars to take a survey but you have to spend thirty dollars (or more) on purchasing the special offer designed just for you before they'll pay you the five dollars. So you really don't make any money.
OR they want you apply for a credit card, OR they want you to sign up for a "free trial" but you have to plug in your credit card info...etc,etc, etc... |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 793
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 04:07 pm: |
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Hey Woman I believe the comany http://payperpost.com/ to be reputable I'll create another post about it shortly. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:30 am: |
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Hey Woman I believe the comany http://payperpost.com/ to be reputable I'll create another post about it shortly.
HAHAHHA! Ok Troy, but I'm going to wait and see if anyone else is brave enough to try this first. |
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