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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9603
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:51 am: | 
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Well, I finally finished "New England White" and I found it to be an extraordinary book, full of intrigue, suspense, and amazing detail. Its premise was quite fascinating and very thought-provoking, its characters complex, the impact of the deceased ones as compelling as the allure of living ones, with the female protagonist being particularly endearing.
The plot was very involved yet never lost its way. The book's setting, however, was almost foreign to me, depicting a rarified black lifestyle which I was hard-pressed to relate to.
As for Stephen Carter's writing approach, it was somewhat difficult to negotiate and he is obviously a man who has a deep love for language, "copulating" with it to the point of reproducing more words. But the persistent reader will, before long, develop a literary menage a trois with Carter and his Muse. And once you establish an ear for his voice, you're good to go.
Did I like "New England White"? Pretty much. I was impressed with the skills the author demonstrated in structuring this saga about the politics, traditions and, yes, racism found within hallowed halls of a ficional Ivy League university, intricately describing what happens when its fortunes become entwined with the highest office in the land, and culminate in murder. I also appreciated the way the narrative disciplined my concentration, and captivated my interest, even introducing me to the dynamics of economic theories.
Would I recommend this 556-page "who-done-it"? Only to someone who has the patience to ride out this riveting novel Stephen Carter has crafted for intellectual contemplation and reading enjoyment. My rating:*** |
Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 287
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 07:46 pm: |
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cYNIQUE you give great reviews! You should do this on a pro basis! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5084
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 10:03 am: |
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Do you invite discussion of any of the points raised above? Or are you going to be directing prospective clients to this site, so you don't want to be seen here acting country. |
Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 345
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 11:26 am: |
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OK, 556 pages is just too damn long. I already have a Bible. I can't see myself reading anything longer than 400 pages, unless I find myself with absolutely nothing else to do. I'll have to wait on the movie for this one. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5101
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 11:52 am: |
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OK, 556 pages is just too damn long. I already have a Bible. I can't see myself reading anything longer than 400 pages, unless I find myself with absolutely nothing else to do. I'll have to wait on the movie for this one
(Exactly my point with this book and his last one. A whodunnit supposed to be in and out. You don't want to move in and live there unless the furnishings are the bomb.
He needs about 150 pages cut out of it. Then it would be okay.
Still not what I'd expect of a Yale Law Professor, but okay. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9620
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 01:05 pm: |
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I am not interested in being a professional book reviewer or am I of a mind to defend Steven Carter's tome. I can only say that once I got into "New England White", its length was not a problem: I just kept reading it until I was finished. I didn't give this book a rave review but I judged it for what it represented to me. An engrossing reading experience which was both enlightening and amusing. I would like to discuss this book with others who read it, like Steve and Nom de Plume, and Yvette. Obviously Steve liked the book; he pronounced Carter a writer of literary note. I would agree. To each his own. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 09:55 pm: |
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Cynique--great review. I have to confess: in preparation for my vacation trip during which I planned to listen to it, I decided to download the 7+ hour abridged version from audible.com instead of the 22+ full version. Even then, the writing was quite expansive. But I greatly enjoyed it. (AND finished it during my plane ride home!) Partly, I think, it was the skills of the narrator, Bahni Turpin (http://tinyurl.com/2zqsft) that made the book easier to follow.
I will likely "re-read" the full version--in book form this time, and along with a second read of "Emperor."
At any rate, I too enjoyed the mystery--and I am a pretty harsh judge of mysteries as this has always been my favorite type of genre fiction. As someone who has lived on academic campuses for most of my adult life, the university storylines were also quite fun to read and rang pretty true.
Chris, if you are thinking a law prof should know how to be "brief," you have never read a law review article or legal decision! LOL |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9627
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 01:51 pm: |
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Thanks, Yvette. Because Carter's narrative style is rather conversational, in that it takes the reader into his confidence as he spins his tale, "New England White" would seem to lend itself well to an audio version. I can imagine that hearing what Carter says, would make this meandering book more enjoyable than reading what he writes. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9631
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 06:06 pm: |
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And, when all is said and done, Yvette, I agree that this book was a good mystery. It was like a hi-tech scanvenger hunt. Yes, the idea of anything that occurred in the story actually happening in real life is unlikely, but if books are supposed to challenge the imagination and provide an alternate reality, then "New England White" filled these expectations. Everybody made much ado about the million-dollar deal that author Stephen Carter got. So, had he written a 100-page novella, he'd have short-changed his publishers. Composing this book had to have been a moumental undertaking and for this, the dude earned his salary. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5103
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
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My advice is don't waste your time with this loser.
Apparently the public thinks so too--they did not believe the hype. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5108
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:43 am: |
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From the first line of the Prologue of New England White ("The Landing in Summer")
Rumors chase the dead like flies (as of when? This guy ain't never heard of undertakers and embalming? When is the last time any of you seen flies on a dead human corpse? The simile is forced)and we follow them with our prim noses.
(Follow what? The flies? The dead? Why are our noses prim?)
This 600 page stinker fairly reeks with this drivel.
If he was some middle aged housewife writing her first tome, I would say this is a good try and encourage her to do more.
This dude is a Yale Law Professor. How dare he!
I bet his colleagues are laughing at him to his face--but he don't care because he got the money.
Cynique must have gotten paid to praise this horsecrap. Even SHE is not this lame by choice. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9634
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:58 am: |
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Why don't you just spare us all of your bitter blather, chrishayden. It's obvious that you're jealous because this author has made it and you haven't. The length of this book is what discourages buyers and it's no worse than a lot of the shorter best-sellers. And in this day of murder and mayhem and dumped dead bodies, only somebody as oblivious as you would be stupid enough to say that flies don't buzz around rotting corpuses. Just one more reason why your opinion of this book is equivalent to zero, and the more you pan it, the more things I remember about it to like. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2191
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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Chris, I continue to be baffled at your logic of what "a Yale law prof" would write. At any rate, certainly if it is not your cup of tea, do not read it. I enjoyed it, though, and like I said plan to read the whole thing in book form before fall. |
Thumper
Regular Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 489
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 09:17 pm: |
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Hello All,
I'm with Chris on this one. Reading Carter's first book was an exercise in self torture for me. I got a copy of his new one, put it on my desk and left it there. I would rather be locked up in a padded room with the piped in sounds of Janet Jackson sing Porgy and Bess, and the Dreamgirls soundtrack! But since I respect Cynique's opinion, I might change my POV...oh but damn, I start my last year of school on Wednesday. Oh well, maybe next time. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9643
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:32 pm: |
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LOL, Thumper. Remember, everybody. I put stipulations on recommending this novel and I didn't give it 4 stars. I simply found it to be an unsual book that I wanted to tackle, and it did manage to sustain my interest. It seems like Carter's 3-book deal has evolved into being a trilogy which undoubtedly explains why "New England White" was very much in the vein of "The Emperor of Ocean Park", to the extent that a couple of major characters in it were minor characters in "New England White." So I guess we can expect more of the same from Carter's final output. Also remember that I have a lot of leisure time and that I'm at the stage where I've been there, done that, so I look for different fare to read. |
Steve_s
Regular Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 288
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:25 am: |
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Mostly for Troy's benefit, because I assume that like me, he appreciates this book, but unlike me, probably hasn't spent 5 or 6 years online trying to find a good book discussion and therefore may not be aware that three sure-fire killers of an exchange of ideas about literature are: flaming, baiting, and repeated butting-in by folks who haven't read the book and don't intend to (and I'm not talking about Thumper). This is why successful book discussion boards always have posting policies which are enforced, so that chronic offenders who can't practice self-control are yanked so as not to interrupt the discussion among those who actually cared enough about the book to have read it. It's a fool's errand to discuss a book with someone who hasn't read it.
New England White is a completely different book than The Emperor of Ocean Park in a number of important ways.
The political orientations of the male protagonists are completely opposite; Misha was a conservative law professor whose ultra-conservative father had been a Reagan-nominated candidate for the Supreme Court at a time when Thurgood Marshall was still active on the court, hence the term "diversity double." Of course, this contradicted what many consider the reality of that "quota of one" for African Americans on the Supreme Court, however, as I remeber, the author did acknowledge that reality somehow.
Misha's wife Kimmer was described as a woman from an upper-class Jamaican background, albeit American-born if I'm not mistaken, while his teaching colleague, Lemaster Carlyle, another British West Indian, albeit a first-generation immigrant, belonged to the oxymoronic organization known as "Democrats for Bush" but had supported Misha's father's nomination by saying that "two blacks" on the Supreme Court "are better than one," which, in my opinion, is less a reflection of any political reality than the author's own conservative convictions (as described in his book "Reflections of an Affirmative Action Baby," or at least, the forty or so pages of it that I read).
In New England White, the male protagonist is now Lemaster Carlyle, a Democrat who's been promoted to president of the University, but the implications are many and fascinating.
The following "spoilers" are from Emily Bernard's review, which I won't link, but which I found the most fascinating of all the reviews. Yes, she is an American American woman with an apparent insider's knowledge of Yale.
Lemaster Carlyle promises, at first, to represent a classic American fantasy: the immigrant success story, the self-made man. From Barbados, he is an outsider to the elite American "Clan"—black movers and shakers—that constitutes Julia's lineage. His clean slate seems to hold out the possibility of a new beginning for Julia personally, and also for the larger story of the powerful black world that claims the couple, in which everyone has known everyone else for generations. But Carter's novel implies that there isn't any room for original dramas on the American stage, not when it comes to racial power. Lemaster achieves success in his new country by insinuating himself into an old script—as the interloper in the world of white privilege. He plays the role of the black exception; he is walking proof of progress toward diversity, yet because he is seen as unique, this exception can never really threaten the status quo. In his singularity, he is ultimately most useful in keeping white power intact.
Among the biographies of influential African-Americans, Lemaster's story is not unique. Condoleeza Rice owes her success to George Bush, and Huey Newton of the Black Panthers had no greater fan than Marlon Brando. In New England White, too, black power exists both because of, and in spite of, white power. It is a delicate dance, and Lemaster Carlyle is, well, a master at it. He not only matriculated at the prestigious university over which he now presides, but spent most of his undergraduate years in the elite Hilliman Suite, courtesy of Jock Hilliman, now dead. Like the Vanderbilt Suite at Yale (the "hidden gem of undergraduate housing," according to the Yale Daily News), the Hilliman Suite is intended for members of the Hilliman family and their friends. In departing from tradition to invite in a black student, Jock Hilliman set the stage for tremendous repercussions. One suitemate, Max Whisted, has become a U.S. senator, and he is now poised to challenge another of the group, Scrunchy, the incumbent president of the United States, in the upcoming election. Along with Lemaster Carlyle and the deceased Hilliman, these men comprise the Four Horsemen.
So this is, dare I say, a deliciously cynical proposition which has its roots in the post-Reconstruction era in which black political power was first achieved and then overturned, and this mystery proceeds from the proposition that political power must be achieved behind the scenes, by any means necessary, if you will. Through secret organizations, in other words.
I think the appeal of this novel is that it's based on a few simple two-category dichotomies which the reader will have little trouble suspending disbelief in. They are the black-white and city-suburb dichotomies.
The catchphrase of the novel, which describes the Carlyle family's move to exclusive suburban Tyler's Landing is an obvious pun on Joseph Conrad, "The Heart of Whiteness," which, to give it an Ellisonian twist, might more accurately be titled "The Heart of the Whiteness of Darkness."
So the distinction between darker nation and paler nation is assumed, for purposes of this novel, as a dichotomy, but according to Emily Bernard more resembles two interdependent groups which intersect without ever truly merging.
I've always associated the metaphor of "a nation within a nation" with Booker T. Washington, and the first such quotation I'm able to attribute to him is from the 19th century. Third sentence:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WasCase.sgm&images=images/mo deng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1
It echoes the Sixth Communist International's thesis of 1928 that blacks in the United States constitute a nation within a nation, a fact which I've gleaned from the biographies of Wright and Ellison, and which also may be where W.E.B. Du Bois got it, although I have no idea if that's actually the case:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:3229yATn7QgJ:www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/p eopleevents/p_dubois.html+w.e.b.+du+bois+nation+within+nation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2 &gl=us&client=safari
So while darker nation/paler nation may not be accurately described as a dichotomy - in other words, caramel flava and pure almond extract don't exist on a continuum somewhere between chocolate flava and artificial vanilla flavoring - I think the geographical distinctions, i.e. the passage from a rural to an urban environment, may be less sharply drawn in the environs of a city like Elm Harbor.
Julia, although raised in New Hampshire, is from old Harlem family, in fact, one in which her Edgecomb Ave. relatives which includes architects from many previous generations, actually look down on the relatively less affluent folks from Striver's Row.
Lemaster is from Barbados, which, in this novel may substitute for the South, the ancestral homeland, as it were, although I don't know if that's what is intended.
This novel doesn't appear to have what I consider the same rigid morality as the first novel, although I sense that there's a subtle sense of belonging to the university community which has a moral basis.
If there's a continuum, it seems to be in the balance, if I may say so, between this sense of belonging and one of separation (or assimilation vs. separatism), which, speaking only as an observer, seems to be a reality which affluent African Americans -- doctors, lawyers, professors, filmmakers, journalists, jazz musicians, etc. -- have to face in environments similar those presented in the novel.
Well, that's it for me. Hope I haven't offended anyone. In my opinion, it's a really fascinating book. Thanks, folks. See you next time.
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 769
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:28 am: |
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Nice post Steve_s.
Cynique's review was enough to interest me, as it was for Thumper, to consider reading this book.
I will supplement the review I posted http://aalbc.com/reviews/new_england_white.htm with content from this discussion.
Very nteresting so far... Thanks.
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2193
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:18 pm: |
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It seems like Carter's 3-book deal has evolved into being a trilogy which undoubtedly explains why "New England White" was very much in the vein of "The Emperor of Ocean Park", to the extent that a couple of major characters in it were minor characters in "New England White."
Cynique, I got this same impression about Carter creating a kind of "franchise" with these characters and this community. (That's one of the reasons I need to re-read "Emperor"--I read it when it first came out and have forgotten much of the detail.)
I may have already mentioned this, but during my vacation along with listening to the audiobook of "NEW" I was reading the book of "Casanegra." Two very different books, the latter requiring much less brain and concentration power. But I enjoyed them both. These days I am much more likely to read light fiction than "heavier" fiction. But it is still nice to sometimes demand more of my mind--not to mention give my dictionary a work-out!
BTW, that was one benefit of listening to NEW instead of reading it: I got a chance to hear how some words are supposed to be pronounced that I usually only see in print. Hey, I ain't shamed--I'm never too old to learn! LOL! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:19 pm: |
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Troy and Thumper: give it a try! |
Nom_de_plume
Regular Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 06:39 pm: |
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I love the book. Both of them. I am buried under the covers with my Sidekick and don't feel like getting into specifics right now, but will definitely be back!
Great review, Cynique. I agree. I enjoy big books!! Too many people are too afraid to read OR write them these days. |
Thumper
Regular Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 491
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 07:50 pm: |
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Hello All,
Yvettep: OK, I'll give it a try during a school break.
Nom_de_plume: I totally agree with you concerning big books. Yes, too many people are afraid of them. Its a shame, because there have been times where a story demanded more space and for whatever reason the author/publisher chose to deny the space needed. If the story is good, well written, or simply a fast paced, drama filled story, people will read it and enjoy it. |
Sann
First Time Poster
Username: Sann
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 07:58 pm: |
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Whew, I finally finished reading this bad boy, now where's the debriefing room and a large glass of water--oh heck make it a martini.
Let me say that I also read The Emperor of Ocean Park years ago and as I recall, I liked it pretty much. Even though after the first 350 pages, I continued to read it because I was determined to finish the book--like some kind obsessive-compulisive-dont-start-what-you-cant-finish thing.--But I digress.
But back to NEW, the re-occurring theme for me? Don't spend the winter in New England, I get it already. I could have done with fewer descriptions of the snow, slush and rain and that alone should cut the tome down by at least, oh say 100 pages.
I did like the story though--once he actually told it. I am not aware of many juicy mystery novels involving the upper AA Clan so it gets points from me on that alone. The Carlyes are an odd bunch--but aren't we all. And I had no problem with Lemmie's reasons for what he did--still can’t see why Julia had her undies in a twist. How did someone like Julia evolve from Granny Vee and Mona? Ok Mona wasn't the best mother in the world--but she was down for the 'cause and knew the real truth about The Caucasians and the The Darker Nation.
Anyhoo, Dr. Carter gave some good twists and turns in the story--some of them unnecessary--but it's his song, let him sing it. He also increased my vocabulary--so I learned something to boot!
Yes it was about 250 too long and it's not the most portable book--I carried it on vacation with me a few weeks ago and had to carry a larger handbag than I wanted just to accommodate the thing. It was worth it though.
So I am looking forward to his next big mystery (and I mean that literally).
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9756
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:40 pm: |
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Welcome to the club. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2231
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 09:55 am: |
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but it's his song, let him sing it
Well, Sann-1st-time-poster, you have hit the nail on its head! Plus--I, too, learned a new word or two (or three, or four...lol) I just checked out of the library EoOP to read again after not being able to find my copy. (Musta lent it to somebody--drat!) |
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