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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy - Archive 2007 » "Some Say Memorial Design Misrepresents MLK Jr." « Previous Next »

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Yvettep
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Post Number: 2474
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 09:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Complete story: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16918803


After decades of planning, construction of a memorial to Martin Luther King Jr. is set to begin this April on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

Although there are memorials of King around the country, this is supposed to be the King memorial to trump all King memorials. It will also be the first memorial on the Mall honoring an African American.

Not all of King's supporters are happy, however. In fact, some of those who have pushed hardest for the memorial to be built are now saying that the memorial is an affront to the iconic civil rights leader's legacy.

Central to the debate is the nationality of the artist commissioned to create the 30-foot-high statue of King; sculptor Lei Yixin is a Chinese national.

"It's an insult. This is America and, believe me, there's enough talent in this country that we do not need to go out of the country to bring someone in to do the work," says Gwen Moore of the California Chapter of the NAACP, which recently passed a resolution against the selection of Lei...
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 10:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe the sculptor was chosen for "the content of his character rather than the color of his skin."
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 01:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

""It's an insult. This is America and, believe me, there's enough talent in this country that we do not need to go out of the country to bring someone in to do the work," says Gwen Moore of the California Chapter of the NAACP, which recently passed a resolution against the selection of Lei..."

Ha! Ha! Ha! No surprise here. This Negro is a sterling example of those who have mastered turning chickenshit race baiting politics into a science.

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Abm
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Post Number: 9742
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 05:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The most relevant question is "Does the sculpture present a valid likeness of MLK?"

But it would be interesting to know why a non-American, Black or not, was commissioned to do the work.

I mean, I guess if dude is widely considered to be the world's greatest living sculptor, you roll with his regardless of where he lives or what comb he uses.

But if he's no better than a 1,000 American sculptors, then I think the sculptor should have been homegrown.
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Doberman23
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 07:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i think the artist did a good job.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 08:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There was the same uproar when a female Asian student designed the Vietnam memorial instead of an American architect. But over time, the naysayers were proven wrong because the resounding impact of this silent monument and the way it is configured has proven that its designer was a visionary.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The King supporters are right. Death to the Chinese!
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Doberman23
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Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

actually if you want to be technical about the situation, king wanted equality and justice for everyone. the sculptor who was commissioned to do the job not based on their race but based on their exceptional capabilities, that is what dr. king was dreaming of all along. so the people who are bitching about this should think about that, because right now they are no better than people who wouldn't give blacks opportunities back in king's day. also the naacp is for the advancement of colored people, it would serve them best not to just think that black is the only color. the sculptor was proficient in their work and i'm quite sure their insulted by the unnecessary bitching.
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 04:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"actually if you want to be technical about the situation, king wanted equality and justice for everyone. the sculptor who was commissioned to do the job not based on their race but based on their............the sculptor was proficient in their work and i'm quite sure their insulted by the unnecessary bitching"

Bro Dobs, I could not have articulated it better. Your words speak undeniable truth. Dr. Kings life was dedicated to human rights, dignity and a society this is free of the yolk of caustic bigotry and racial ignorance. It matters not what color the artist is. She was contracted to do the job because of her artistic abilities and not her race –the exact criteria Dr. King dedicated his life to. All of this race baiting and pathetic whining because of the sculptors race and not her skills is in direct contradiction to what Dr. King envisioned. E’nuff said………….

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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 08:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doberman and NTFS you both do a really good job of fumigating the premesis after chrishayden stinks up the board.
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Abm
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 01:04 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ntfs: "She was contracted to do the job because of her artistic abilities and not her race..."


Do you (or anyone else here) REALLY know the criteria upon which the sculptor was selected? Or are you making an assumption based upon what you chose (and WANT) to believe?

I mean, I certainly like to THINK they chose her SOLELY because she's the most competent and accomplished sculptor available. But I ALSO know enuff about how things work to imagine there may be ulterior motives (e.g., grease the palms and egos of Chinese who are financing TRILLION dollar U.S. debt) involved.
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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 09:34 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can take a virtual tour of the memorial here: http://www.mlkmemorial.org/ WHatever you think of the choice, it appears it will be quite a deep emotional experience.

I also found interesting the $ talley of how much the Black fraternities and sororities have given so far: http://www.kintera.org/faf/home/ccp.asp?ievent=135908&ccp=53146
Not surprisingly, the Alphas have donated the most ($40K+), with the AKAs next at $15K+.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 10:33 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you (or anyone else here) REALLY know the criteria upon which the sculptor was selected? Or are you making an assumption based upon what you chose (and WANT) to believe?

I mean, I certainly like to THINK they chose her SOLELY because she's the most competent and accomplished sculptor available. But I ALSO know enuff about how things work to imagine there may be ulterior motives (e.g., grease the palms and egos of Chinese who are financing TRILLION dollar U.S. debt) involved.

(Out of the mouth of ABM's. Negroes are real quick to impute good motives to folk that give it to them up the tailpipe.

They been down so long, down look like up to them)

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Chrishayden
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, Yvettep. What became of that cookbook you and Lili were collaborating on.

Oh and

DEATH TO THE CHINESE!
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 11:03 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Yvette, for making all of this material available to us. You can always be depended on to uplift us. I'm wondering if this is a privately funded project. If so that puts to rest the notion that it has something to do with America sucking up to China.
BTW, has it been established whether or not the sculptor is a "she"? Or is this the assumption of people on this board who live and die by making assumptions.
I alway thought that there was a certain Buddha-esque quality about MLK. I love how the statue looks! Its very ZEN in its emanation.
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 01:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

”I mean, I certainly like to THINK they chose her SOLELY because she's the most competent and accomplished sculptor available. But I ALSO know enuff about how things work to imagine there may be ulterior motives (e.g., grease the palms and egos of Chinese who are financing TRILLION dollar U.S. debt) involved.”

Bro ABM, I have no problems with your questions of why a Chinese was chosen if you suspect a political motive. But we don’t know that and no one has provided any evidence to support such a possibility (not saying that it is not true). But the objection to her being given the commission because of her race was the issue.

It reminds me of whites who bitterly objected to the hiring Camilla Ella Williams when she became the first black operatic soprano to sing with the New York City Opera in Giacomo Puccini's ”Madama Butterfly.” Outraged racist whites objected to her role not because of her talent, but because of her race. Same applies here with the Chinese sculptor. Race –not talent was the objection of the these indignant Negroes.

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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 06:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique, I believe the Alphas were instrumental in getting this effort off the ground. The memorial website has a list of corporate sponsors--the usual Fortune 500 entities and other big companies. Then I know it had to go through several layers of federal red tape, so in that respect it is a publicly-driven initiative.

Chris, I am not a good cook so I am not sure if a cookbook by me would be a good idea--even if it were co-authored with LiLi. Now if LiLi wrote one on her own, I;d definitely buy it--I love to look at the pictures even though my efforts rarely turn out like the ones in the books! LOL

ABM, I hear you, but I am not sure how such a scheme would play out here. For example, I knwo the South African govt gave money, but I do not know of any other world governments that did (including China). That is where I would think someone or something would be best positioned to wield power. But I admit that you are probably more tuned into this kind of business wrangling than I am so I very well may be missing a bigger picture here. Regardless--I do think that the opponents of the choice of designer could be focussed on other, more important aspects. For example, here is what the web site says about the architecture firm handling the project:

McKissack & McKissack of Washington, Inc. is an African-American, woman-owned full service architecture and program/construction management firm. Deryl McKissack, PE, PMP, founded the company in 1990, which now has offices in Washington, DC, Baltimore, Chicago and Miami. McKissack employs 140 professionals and is certified by the District of Columbia as a Local, Small and Disadvantaged Business Enterprise (LSDBE). It is ranked by the Washington Business Journal as one of the top 25 Design firms in the Washington Metropolitan Area and by Engineering News Record as one of the nation’s leading Construction Management firms.

When Deryl McKissack established the company, she was the fifth generation of her family to carry on the building tradition. McKissack is an outgrowth of the oldest, continually minority-owned architecture/engineering firm in the United States. Its roots go back to before the Civil War, when a slave in Tennessee named Moses McKissack learned the building trade from his overseer. It was his grandson, Moses III, who launched the first McKissack & McKissack in Nashville, Tennessee. The year was 1905.

The year that Ms. McKissack’s father took the helm of the Nashville firm, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated in Memphis at the Lorraine Motel. A civil rights center was later constructed within the motel that would help visitors better understand the history and lessons of the American Civil Rights Movement. McKissack & McKissack of Nashville provided full architectural and engineering services for the $9.9 million renovation and addition for the civil rights center.

Today, the fifth generation of McKissacks still understands the importance of legacy and tradition, especially in the historic preservation of landmarks and erection of monuments, notably its performance as prime contractor on the design-build work at the Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials. For the past six years, McKissack has provided services for the restoration and security improvements for both the Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials. The firm’s memorial experience has also included construction management for the U.S. Air Force Memorial site preparation. Moreover, in celebration of the McKissack family’s centennial year, in 2005 Ms. McKissack’s firm bequeathed the concept design for the fundraising effort for the new Cape Coast Museum in Ghana. The museum was designed to represent the seven stages Africans went through in being taken from their homeland, to becoming slaves, to some eventually becoming free in the United States.
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Abm
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Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 09:50 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ntfs,

One of the sadder things about racism is that it can lend credence to our worse suspicions. Because as ridiculous as it might appear to you that there are racists motives behind the selection of the sculptor, I would not at ALL be surprise to discover race directly or indirectly factored in.

I am generally straddle the fence when there are cries of racism.

I am suspicious of unfounded claims of racism. But I also am suspicious of kneejerk rebuttals of such. Yes, very often, Black foks use racism as a crutch. But such would not BE a viable crutch were there, in fact, no racism.


Btw: The irony of White foks whining about Williams portraying Madame Butterfly is the title character is the title character is NOT White. So if there’s were a legitimate beef about a Black woman playing Madame (though I’d agree there really is NONE), it’s cross-dressing Japanese who should have done the beefing.
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Enchanted
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Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they made Tut white now they begin to make King chinese the sculptre in london shows King as a white man then the black writer who made katrina victims into latinos smh blacks go for anything I dont like the sculpture it looks too chinese
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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who made Tut white, "enchanted"? His fellow Egyptians who sculpted his face on his tomb? His fellow Egyptians who drew the hieroglyphics on the walls of his crypt?? Puleeze. And your opinion about MLK's statue just made me like it all the more.
BTW, you forgot to use your spell check again - like there's a spell check feature on this site. watta joke you are.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BTW, you forgot to use your spell check again

(LOOK AT WHO'S TALKING!)
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I misspell words I don't attribute it to forgetting to use the spell check the way "enchanted" did, because I know there is no spell checker on this site. Her remark was just another deceitful example of her trying to make people think that she really writes the way she does. So, stfu, krishayddan.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What do you think Dr. King would think about this?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/boxing/article562337.ece

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Enchanted
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cynique I dont type well an too busy for spell check your 70 yr old with nothing else to do all day an not a wich alive more deceitful an ugly than you are liar
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 01:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any 10 year old child can use the 2-finger method and by taking their time, type a coherent sentence. But of course an imbecilic troll like you persists in your silly charade. And if you look anything like your lying-assed, mule-faced, 50-year-old puppet-master, you can't call anybody ugly.
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Enchanted
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 01:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no I dont look anything like Zane an your not worth me typing a coherent sentence notice you post to me I never post to you first nothing you said interests me
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 02:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You hang on my every word, because you have nothing better to do, which is why you always mention me in your silly-assed posts. And your obsession with Zane proves who you are. You're just mad cause she rejected your manuscript. And why hasn't Nafishy Gomez announced your book deal with Viking?
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 04:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"they made Tut white now they begin to make King chinese the sculptre in london shows King as a white man then the black writer who made katrina victims into latinos smh blacks go for anything I dont like the sculpture it looks too chinese..."

.....?????????????

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Enchanted
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wrong Cynique your obsession with kola boof and making evrybody be her is obvius I dont like Zane because I found out all the lies she told on kola dont forget I waork in publishing an also kola seemed to lvoe Zane a whole lot time after her book was rejected by Zane am I correct? she was still gushing over Zane but Wasnt it when Zane jumped at kola on this board that kola stop liking her?} SEE--proof your memory is shot to hell but whats funny I bet Zane will look like a fool when a much bigger house then Zane's puts out kolas book and its a big hit Im sure kola will piont out the book was rejected by Zane during publicity lol! :-) kola will probly point out Zane wasnt smart enuff to "get it" an bigger publishing house had people who can read lol! but Zane being stupid to jump in something that wasnt her business is water under the bridge an no matter how you call me kola it wont make your dream come true cynique if anybody is pathetic that would be you nwo call me kola :-)
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Cynique
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Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 09:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yada, Yada, Yada. Seated there on the knee of her ventriloquist, the dummy yaps on, putting kola's spin on the fact that Zane didn't want her "all over-the-place" book, never giving an explanation as to why the over zealous Nafishy Gomez isn't doing her job as a publicist, bringing the board up to date on the smell of kola's farts.
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Enchanted
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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 01:50 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

aww poor cynique your dying to know kolas bizness lol! maybe her new publisher fired Nafisa that would make sense but your not intel. enuff to have thunk so high an I think its hilarious someon of Zane's pea brain didnt want kola I wonder why Viking Penguin did? I would kill for know it all Zane to answer that! didnt she know more about kolas deals then kola? heh heh heh :-)


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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 12:18 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Get real. I'm laughing my ass off because kola had to stop representing herself as Nafisa Gomez so that the people at Viking wouldn't know what a deceitiful liar she is. Ah but we still have the enchantment persona to act as a filter for kola's crap.
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I wouldn't be surprised if the novel Zane rejected is a different one from the book that Viking accepted. Zane didn't get where she is by not knowing good fiction when she sees it.
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Enchanted
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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 01:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

then how come she hasnt written any good fiction? :-) lol! I disagee with you cynique I bet kola sent Zane the same book but to Zales simpleton mind real literature is "all over theplace" theres no way Noam Chomsky an Chinua Achebe priased kola book before Zane had it then she says it no good then a publishing house bigger than Simmons and Schuster snaps it up that sounds like dumb cracker jack Zane found it too literary an none of the books she publish are very challenging Isnt it street lit an erotic? I believ shes jealous of kola an didnt wnat a writer that can outshine her not to mention where they said kola slept with her husband in Sister 2 Sister I dont like her for how she fronted kola when urbanscribe an all was jumping kola and lying on her Zane had no businez that was an attack out n out and Zale got wehere she is writng trash trash thats not even good Noire is the new queen of erotica she outsells Zane an has a movie coming out her book "Candylicker" sold 5 million an she regularly outsell Zane Noire also ten times better writer than Zane I happen to be good friend with Noire :-) I bet Zane dont think Im kola *Wink*
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 10863
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 01:43 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you think I'm gonna read all of that gibberish, you're crazy. Bottom line: Zane has a great track record with her books, and she heads up her own label with a major house and all kola boof has is a talent for lying and self promoting and speaking through trolls.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption

Post Number: 2887
Registered: 10-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 01:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"wrong Cynique your obsession with kola boof and making evrybody be her is obvius I dont like Zane because I found out all the lies she told on kola dont forget I waork in publishing an also kola seemed to lvoe Zane a whole lot time after her book was rejected by Zane am I correct? she was still gushing over Zane but Wasnt it when Zane jumped at kola on this board that kola stop liking her?"

Ummm……Enchanted, I have to say this because it’s been on my mind for some time now. You say you work in publishing? I doubt that very seriously. What do you do? Work in the warehouse stacking boxes of books, answering the phone or taking lunch orders? Cleary you are not a writer. You have proven that beyond a doubt. I have yet to see you construct one readable sentence! WTF..??!!

If you recall, I asked you before if English was your first language. You suggested it was and rationalized your bizarre incoherent writing as the result of not spell checking. I don’t think so. I’m not saying any of this to be disrespectful or hostile (no need for that) but I can’t help but notice your writing reminds of an encrypted message. And yes, I make syntax, grammatical and spelling errors also. We all do. But you have taken it to another level all together my dear. Just an observation…….

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Yvettep
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Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 2479
Registered: 01-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 02:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Man, can't leave folks unsupervised for a hot minute up in here LOL!

I'm gonna un-hijack my own thread and post a link to the architectural firm I mentioned wayyyyy up there: http://www.mckissack.com/

Spiffy website w/a nice "smooth jazz" soundtrack! Enjoy.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 10870
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did. :-)
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 2480
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Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good, Cynique! :-)

Another interesting perspective from one of MLK's frat brothers (also see long comment from others involved in the issue): http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2007/11/kings-monument.html
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 10878
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the sculptor is a "he", huh? Who once said "all art is political".

I ask myself what would MLK say? I think he would probably be inclined to transcend controversy and magnanimously remind us not to trouble ourselves about the human who sculpted him but rather with the divine creator who molded him to preach a gospel of all men being brothers.

Me, I still like the statue. MLK was our black Buddha, and his teachings were grounded in the non-violent philosophy of Eastern religions.

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