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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 887
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 01:02 pm: | 
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NFL buffoons leaving terrible legacy
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980?MSNHPHMA
by Jason Whitlock, FOXSports.com
”African-American football players caught up in the rebellion and buffoonery of hip hop culture have given NFL owners and coaches a justifiable reason to whiten their rosters. That will be the legacy left by Chad, Larry and Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, Terrell Owens, Michael Vick and all the other football bojanglers.”
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 888
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 01:13 pm: |
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I agree with Whitlock that the culture is at fault. I however do not think hip-hop is the root cause. Hip-hop is a consequence, a manifestation of the culture not the source of the culture or associated problems.
We live in a culture that promotes this behavior with financial rewards and notoriety. We control little media, those who do control the media care not one iota about the potential negative impact of images they project and the impact of our culture – which is inextricably intertwined with the majority culture. White boys are already wearing saggin jeans.
Will it be very long before white boys are creating mayhem on the football fields and basketball courts too?
Perhaps not, I suspect something will be done about it before it gets THAT far. Then again, maybe not if their is enough money in it.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10424
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 01:51 pm: |
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I'd be interested in hearing what the Jason Whitlock boo-birds will have to say about this article. I'm sure they'll come up with some kind of responses to discredit what Whitlock asserts, forging some kind of a rebuttal having to do with the behavior of hockey players or Nascar drivers or tennis players.
What struck a note with me was Whitlock's observation that the belligerant buffonery infesting the NFL isn't about race, but about culture. The hip-hop culture has morphed into a cult of mindless rebellion and malignant materialism and wanton indulgence, a lifestyle whose negative influence has infested all areas of black life. tsk-tsk. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2388
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 02:46 pm: |
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Well, I do not claim (or aim) to be a Whitlock "boo-bird." (I have only skimmed the article.) But I do have one question: Assuming "the culture" is at fault--Which culture?
Materialism, consumerism, violence, macho, mysogyny, individualism... Sounds like American culture to me. Any Black American culture is just that: American--including Hip-Hop American Culture. Hip-hop did not emerge in some Black-only vacuum, but in a lower income, mostly Black, mostly urban environment in a larger wealthier and Whiter context.
Does that mean these behaviors are excusable? No. But it is tiresome hearing all these folks talk about "Black pathology" as if it were apart from any pathologies in the larger American society.
If hip-hop has morphed into what you say, Cynique, then it is one of the most successful and truly American ventures to date--rivalling Wild West, corporate, or any other previous or current ones. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10427
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 04:19 pm: |
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I do not necessary agree that hip-hop is an out growth of the greater culture. It is a counter-culture, and is uniquely black like Blues and Jazz music. The reason white people have co-opted it because it is a different and innovative. Its laid-backness was the anti-thesis of tight-assed corny squareness.
Hip hop manifested the "keeping it real" attitude that is rooted in the souls of black folks who have always been able to turn nothing into something. But just like whites co-opted hip hop, the affluent element of the hip hop culture is now co-opting the negativity of white society and making it over in their own image.
I would agree, however, that hip-hop's current image exemplifies the age-old tradition of American outlaws, be they cowboys or mobsters or corporate CEOs.
When black pundits like Jason Whitlock criticize other blacks, they obviously do so within the context and the immediacy of what is relevant to a particular situation. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 889
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 04:35 pm: |
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Exactly Yvettep.
I don't know why Jason is placing the full brunt of responsibility on the doorstep of the so called hip-hop culture (read: Black folks) -- it really is assinine.
The more I think about it I was being too kind. If you read Jim Brown's biography, you'll know football was replete with bad behavior, unnecessary violence, in his day.
Thomas Sowell wrote a book where he essentially describes, and I paraphrase, what people refer to as ghetto culture is really poor southern white culture imported from Europe.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10430
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 04:57 pm: |
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LOL Hip hop is all about style. Yes, its no worse than "Red Neck" behavior but have you ever seen a red neck do a dance in the end zone? Back in Jim Brown's hey day were plantium medallions and diamond earrings status symbols?
I don't think hip-hoppers invented bad or violent behavior; they just put their spin on it and made it so exciting and glamourous that young blacks want to emulate it. Dirt-poor red necks are ridiculed and looked down upon by whites. Hip-hop millionaires are idolized.
No matter how unjust the criticism is, it can't be denied that bad behavior among blacks is not put in perspective by whites and they have the power to punish it. Especially if the own a football team. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2797
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 05:15 pm: |
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"What struck a note with me was Whitlock's observation that the belligerant buffonery infesting the NFL isn't about race, but about culture. The hip-hop culture has morphed into a cult of mindless rebellion and malignant materialism and wanton indulgence, a lifestyle whose negative influence has infested all areas of black life. tsk-tsk. "
As usual, you're on the money Ms. Cynique! But the indignant pouting Negro excuse makers and apologists will bitterly attack and denounce Whitlock as they do Mr. Cosby. The shrill and silly unwarranted personal attacks are manifestations of their embarrassment and outrage that a black man would step up to the plate and denounce the cancerous Coon Culture malignancy that is decimating a generation of black youth (and white folks heard them -oooohhhh nooooooooo!!!!!!! ). Yes, the commentary by bro Whitlcok and Mr. Cosby is painful. But it is real -very real! When I went to Ohio earlier this year (No, it's not just in Ohio, it's very prevalent here in SoCal but I just don't personally encounter it) and I saw a safe blue collar working community I grew up in turned into a dysfunctional-drive-by-violent-gang banging-gangsta rap video enactment. I was stunned!
Everything these two black men have openly stated, I saw with my own eyes. I talked in depth with all my cousins, my father, personal friends from back in the day and black people I casually met. All shook their heads in resignation and disgust at the ever increasing wanton out of control buffoonery and the lethalness of the modern day minstrelsy of the current street thug Coonery. So, when I hear dishonest Negroes like Boyce Watkins and other mendacious excuse makers, I laugh. But perhaps I shouldn't since their cowardice and misguided vitriolic personal attacks only serve to justify a disturbing self destructive sub-culture and put a smiley face on a very serious problem that is sucking the life out of the black underclass.
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 891
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 08:20 pm: |
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"No matter how unjust the criticism is, it can't be denied that bad behavior among blacks is not put in perspective by whites and they have the power to punish it." -- Precisely.
But what makes matters worse is when other Blacks do not realize this and throw gasoline on the fire.
Whites are able to further justify their overt bigotry by pointing folks like to this Jason character for ammunition.
I guess Jason kinda pisses me off because instead of keeping his commentary to specific people or actions he chooses to slam entire group of people in a way which would make David Duke proud.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10434
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 09:18 pm: |
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Well, in this article Jason limited his commentary to black renegade football players in the NFL. I don't think he was indicting the whole race. He seemed to be issuing a warning; that if 10 years down the line, the NFL is all white-faced, then we'll know why.
Jason Wilcox's biggest crime is that he continues to commit the unforgivable sin of saying what a whole lot of black people don't want to hear, and this is further exacerbated by the fact that there is always an element of truth in what he says, and years from now, discussions like this will still be taking place because blacks will never all be of one mind. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 893
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:22 pm: |
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Cynique, I justed popped by the boards for some information, but I seem to recall the article stating or at least strongly implying that the hip-hop culture is the core of his problem.
Hip-Hop means Black. OK, maybe I'm overreacting... later. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 978
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
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Buffoons? An understatement. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 04:14 am: |
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"Jason Wilcox's biggest crime is that he continues to commit the unforgivable sin of saying what a whole lot of black people don't want to hear, and this is further exacerbated by the fact that there is always an element of truth in what he says, and years from now, discussions like this will still be taking place because blacks will never all be of one mind."
Ms. Cynique, your precision and accuracy never cease to amaze me. I guess it's true that wisdom and the ability to see past popular hyperbole and stylish rues comes with age. You just saved me a lot of writing. Thanks.
"But what makes matters worse is when other Blacks do not realize this and throw gasoline on the fire."
This is true bro Troy. The gasoline they throw in the fire is their reckless personal behavior that further supports and confirms the condemnations. THEY CONSISTENTLY AND PREDICTABLY DO EVERYTHING TO MAKE THE ACCUSATIONS TRANSCEND SIMPLE DEMONIZATION.
"Whites are able to further justify their overt bigotry by pointing folks like to this Jason character for ammunition."
Wrong! Whites don't have to do anything. Negroes act out every thing they say and provide the ammunition for them.
"Hip-Hop means Black. OK, maybe I'm overreacting... later."
Wrong and right. Hip hop/rap was initially created by black inner city youth. But it now transcends being a black genre. As much as I hate to admit this, it is now a global phenomena that is embraced by world youth. It matters not where you are. Young people in lilly white suburbs, in Germany, Philippines, Scotland, Japan, Cuba, Israel, China, etc, are passionately emulating black rappers and acting out their BET rap video fantasies and filling the pockets of music corporations that aggressively market and supply this talentless slag while the black face minstrel Negroes who churn it out collect the crumbs that are swept off the table. It's no longer a black thing. And yes, you are overreacting.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5559
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:59 am: |
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Number one, Jason Whitlock is a white folks Negro.
I know we are not supposed to examine a so called messenger and what he brings, but would you drink water from a dirty glass?
He is here to write things that white people no longer feel comfortable in saying. That they can rent a Negro so cheaply to downgrade himself shows how contemptible and low down the African in America has got.
Negroes. You are judging yourselves. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5560
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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As usual, you're on the money Ms. Cynique! But the indignant pouting Negro excuse makers and apologists will bitterly attack and denounce Whitlock as they do Mr. Cosby etc etc
I like you, Ntfs.
You remind me of a Negro on another discussion board who used to churn out this same cookie cutter rap he used to make himself feel superior.
Then, one day a carload of white boys pulled up to him and called him the N word. He was all over the board screaming racism.
Instead of weeping crocodile tears with him, we reminded him of his sins. And we never heard from him again.
This is George Bush's America. I shall have the last laugh on you. |
Doberman23
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 01:48 pm: |
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hmmmm, i have to disagree with whitlock. there are 32 teams in the nfl ... which means there are 1,696 players on each team. majority of which are black and that majority listens to hip hop ... hold on, what consists of hip hop culture? if you listen to hip hop does that make you part of hip hop culture, or if you have clothes similar to what the rappers wear or buy what rappers buy?
anyways whitlock pulled a one man espn in his article. for example terrel owens, vick, and pac man where on espn every day. thats 3 people who did something fowl to get a lot of attention. 3 people out of 1,696 people. larry johnson and chad johnson have been disruptive to their teams, ok eric lindros was disruptive to his team when he went to philadelphia (hockey player by the way)how much did you hear about that. what about mark chumura he was banging his 16 year old baby sitter and patrick kerney had a woman running to the police after being raped at his house, and everyone talks about ricky williams when he gets his smoke on ... but what about the huge amount of white athletes who are drunks and druggies? is it hip hop when all of these white people get busted? ... those stories just disappear... so it must be classical.
jim brown ... great running back but he also beat the hell out of his women on the regular and also punked his coaches out all the time. i have no problems if you want to call someone out but you better have more examples then just 9 or 10 out of 1,696. also you need to clarify what is meant by hip hop culture. in this situation call this what it is, spoiled athletes who need a good kick in the ass. terrell owens also has never ran into any legal issues ... he would be no different than our i-t guy at my job, he's an asshole but he is absolutely the best i-t guy i have ever dealt with when it comes to the job.
jason whitlock's article is too easy to dismantle, he perhaps needs a brush up on journalism. because less than 1% of 1,696 is not a balanced analysis |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10441
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 02:21 pm: |
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When I look at the Chicago Bears, I see a black-coached team with no prima donnas, - one that has great chemistry... and that's because they get rid of any player who rocks the boat.
I don't think Jason Whitlock is an ogre. He's just an idealistic guy who has unrealistic expectations because he wants all black athletes to be exemplary heroes instead of uncooperative trouble makers. Yep, he does think like a white person. But that means that in the arena of sports, he can anticipate how the powers that be will react when it comes to race, which is why his articles are always cautionary. IMO.
As far as hip-hop goes, it is different things to different people. "Outsiders" see its negative aspects and blame them for tainting black America. Those who are a part of the hip hop "nation" think they are misunderstood because they are "patriotic". LOL |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5574
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 03:45 pm: |
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When I look at the Chicago Bears, I see a black-coached team with no prima donnas, - one that has great chemistry... and that's because they get rid of any player who rocks the boat.
(And how are they doing?
Football is not a tea party. It is a mean brutal activity where, like it or not, the goal is to make sure the other player is not able to complete his assignments.
If he must be disabled or knocked out, so be it. If he becomes injured during the execution of same--tough.
You people make me sick. You sit there salivating for a big hit or somebody to be carried out of the game and think somebody can be little lord fauntleroy and do it.
A goodly number of these players, if they weren't playing would be in jail. Some of them will go when their playing time is up.
It has always been like that. In the old days it would just be hushed up more--and they weren't black.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10450
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 06:49 pm: |
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And you turn my stomach, chrishayden. As usual you are out of whack. Your mouthing off has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Nobody is talking about what happens on the NFL playing field. sheeze. |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 568
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 08:08 pm: |
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I've had enough, I usual don't get involved in these kind of discussion because I can't say enough in this forum.....sooooooo......as usual......Chris, YEP....I hear you and I agree fully. Yes sir Troy, again you do not let your "feelings" get in the way of the truth. I get so angered.....well not angry but dismayed at ....ahhhh.....NEGROS.....that are so easily led astray by the white man's TOMs. The facts ARE it's a small......let me say that again...small group of individuals that are making the news....AND....the "crimes", are relatively small in nature compared to what's really going on in the world....really.....come on folk.....don't let them do that to yourselves....who is Bill Cosby?? ?
Did I miss something.....what does hip hop have to do with anything......really... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10452
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 09:08 pm: |
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Hip-hop spawned rap, and rap spawned gangsta rap and gangsta rap has permeated the minds of young black people and motivated them to adopt a mindset that worships bling and devalues women and glorifies and promotes violence. And, as usual, people call other people who don't agree with them, Uncle Toms, as opposed to giving a substantial rebuttal. The true Uncle Toms are the one who shuffle along, excusing and defending and grumbling about what da white man is tryin to do to negroes instead of what negroes are doing to themselves. How's that for responding to a "period"??? LMAO. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2397
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 07:53 am: |
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adopt a mindset that worships bling and devalues women and glorifies and promotes violence
Again: that "mindset" existed in this country long before rap and hip hop. It is as American as baseball and apple pie. Cynique, IMO your "spawned" timeline does not go back far enough. I think many young people have fully bought into the American Dream that includes these elements. There are long routes to get to the status and the cars and the "bling" and such. When you do not possess the means to get there the long route (e.g., being born into connections and wealth, or higher education, etc) then there are shortcuts. (Heck, even some folks who take the more traditional route take shortcuts.)
Personally, I defend no one in this lifestyle. I fault our analysis of it for failing to fully consider the bigger picture. If we are going to replace "hip hop culture" with something else in order to fix things, we have to be honest that we will have to give its current "practitioners" something real to replace it with and that something will have to most likely grow out of a very different, very non-Western/-American value system. Folks will not be fooled if we tell them that all they need to do is "work hard and play by the rules." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10453
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 01:03 pm: |
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What you say is true, Yvette. America has always been materialistic and its history is rife with the exploits of the robber barons among the rich, the king pins in the underworld and the repression of women by society. And, yes, minorities have always striven to achieve the American dream, and within the black minority the sub culture of hip-hop has become a microcosm of America. Now what? If we are to lament the dire situation in the black community, we have to drone that racism is entrenched in America. Once this is established, then we have to consider that black people who emulate the superficiality and corruptness of the greater society suffer greater consequences. We can continue to place the blame for the plight of the black community elsewhere, but what does this accomplish except to provide excuses the neutralize progress. If we stop getting bogged down in the cause, and start concentrating on reversing the effect, maybe we can't move a few inches forward. Maybe. Who knows?
I am just debating this subject for the sake of debate. But if truth be told, I almost at the point of becoming indifferent because whatever it is that is creating a crises in the black community does not seem to be going away it. And so it goes. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2399
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 01:36 pm: |
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Cynique, I have been trying to develop a "thought experiment" about just this thing: with what do we replace the current behavior and reward system? So far I know what needs to be in place in this experiment--For example, it cannot depend on racism magically going away, it cannot overemphasize some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process, it cannot depend on large influxes of money, etc. But beyond that my thoughts are pretty incoherent.
Guess I'll keep thinking... |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2400
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 01:40 pm: |
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I almost at the point of becoming indifferent
Actually, that is one of the better developed aspects of my thought experiment. One aproach would be to take no approach, under the assumption that a hands-off, laissez faire (spl?) tact will eventually result in the system buckling under its own excesses. (Of course, the devil is in the details of the "eventually.") |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10456
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 02:33 pm: |
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The Nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman theorized and it proved to be borne out when it came to the economy. He said something to the effect that trends and patterns eventually correct themselves and should not be tampered with by outside intervention.
When it comes to the human condition, I guess it all boils down to the idea that once things reach bottom, there's no place for them to go but go up.
And some aspects of Existentialism may be implicit in the inevitability mind-set, e.g. "as conscious beings, humans will always find themselves already in a world, a prior context and a history that is given to consciousness, and that humans cannot think away that world. It is inherent and indubitably linked to consciousness... the ultimate and unquestionable reality is not thinking consciousness but "being in the world, that individual human beings create the meanings and essence of their own lives, that people are entirely free and therefore responsible for what they make of themselves and that with this responsibility comes a profound anguish or dread." zzzzzzzzzzzzzz LOL |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5597
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 02:59 pm: |
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And you turn my stomach, chrishayden. As usual you are out of whack. Your mouthing off has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Nobody is talking about what happens on the NFL playing field. sheeze.
(It cannot be easily turned on and off, no matter what the tv sports announcers try to say.
You don't want brutal men. Don't pay them big money and cover them with glory for being brutal) |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 586
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 06:46 pm: |
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That was good Cyn-Cyn, that was a good come back....I can't say a thing......you've managed to shut my mouth!
You know I hate to admit that but every dog has it's day.
Carey
Carey |
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