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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2573
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:12 am: | 
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Vick's career over?
By Jason Cole
August 20, 2007
While many people in and around the NFL are wondering if Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick ever will play in the league again, former Green Bay general manager Ron Wolf is wondering why not.
"If he pays his debt to society, why shouldn't he get another chance?" asked Wolf, who was the engineer of Green Bay's Super Bowl championship team in the 1996 season. "Maybe I don't understand something in all of this, but you're supposed to get a second chance in this country."
However, according to interviews with several NFL executives, Wolf is in the minority. Four other general managers and/or other personnel executives said they thought a return by Vick would be problematic.
"Yeah, that's true, but it's a different time, a different place, a different set of circumstances," said a general manager who asked not to be identified.
On Monday, Vick's attorney Billy Martin announced that the quarterback will plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges. Conditions of the terms are unknown, but Vick faces up to five years in prison.
The most damning evidence made public against Vick came Friday when co-defendants Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips also pleaded guilty. In their plea, Peace and Phillips admitted to killing eight dogs in April at Vick's property in Virginia and said that Vick participated in the death of the animals. The animals were destroyed because they failed to perform well enough in testing to see if they were "game" enough to be good fighters.
"Every time you read about this story, it makes you want to take a shower," another unnamed general manager said.
The Vick issue is layered with questions, such as how long he might serve in prison, how long the NFL will suspend him once he officially enters his plea Aug. 27 and whether the Falcons will go after approximately $28 million the team paid him in bonus money.
Still, the bottom line comes down to whether he'll get another chance. Adding to the complexity of the situation, said one general manager, is that Vick plays quarterback. Will some NFL team ever want a convicted animal killer and liar to be the face of a franchise?
"You're not talking about just anybody on your football team," the GM said. "You're talking about the leader of your team, the most recognizable player on your team, the guy who you normally market the team around and try to get the fans excited about.
"Do you really think you're ever going to be able to get people to put their arms around that guy again? Maybe, but I don't think I'd be able to pull it off. We're not talking about just football here. We're talking about marketing, profile, what your sponsors think."
At the same time, Wolf contended that crime is crime and that other players have been found guilty of activities seemingly just as serious.
"We've had a lot of people in this league do a lot of bad things, and they still got a chance," Wolf said. "Leonard Little killed someone (while drunk driving). Jamal Lewis went to prison (in connection to) selling drugs. Are you telling me that killing eight dogs is worse than killing a human being? … Yes, this is bad, but are you really telling me that he doesn't deserve a chance to play again when other people have committed crimes and come back?"
Then again, Wolf is an example of someone who might have the power to make it happen.
"It's going to take an owner who has big ones or a GM who has some (trophies) on his (side) to make that work," another general manager said. Since Vick still is under contract with the Falcons, executives from other teams are not allowed to talk about him from an employment standpoint.
Oakland managing general partner Al Davis and Dallas owner Jerry Jones were among those mentioned as owners who might take a chance on Vick if and when Atlanta lets him go.
"Yeah, it would have to be someone like one of those guys," a team executive said. "Just ask yourself, 'How are you going to sell that one as a GM to your owner and his wife?' "
The additional issue with Vick is that well before he got in trouble, there were concerns about whether he could become a polished quarterback. Atlanta hired coach Bobby Petrino this offseason with the goal of concluding if Vick ever would harness his impressive talent.
"The fact that he's only 27 and he's still going to be a great athlete in a year or two is going to help him, but now he's behind for two years," the GM said. "I wasn't sure how good a quarterback he was before. What's he going to be in two years?"
Jason Cole is a national NFL writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send Jason a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1822
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:23 am: |
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I just heard that he MIGHT get two years. It's possible he could get probation and fines ain't it? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2576
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:28 am: |
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"I just heard that he MIGHT get two years. It's possible he could get probation and fines ain't it?"
Possible. But at this point, it's all conjecture and speculation. The final word will come when he stands before a federal judge for sentencing next week. Then it's a done deal. Either way, he will pay a devastating price for this sadistic criminal behavior. Too bad.......
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5579
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:08 am: |
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If he goes to prison for more than five years, I doubt if he'll be able to resume his football career. But if it's less than that, I think he could play again. I predict he's going to get two years and he'll make a comeback.
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 537
Registered: 04-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
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As long as they don't tie any gambling charge to Vick he has a chance to make a comeback.
However, if they find he has bet on anything other than his foolish dog fights-like football games for example-you can stick a fork in him, he's done.
His buddies have ratted him out, but Vick is acting like he did not know what he was doing was illegal. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5586
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:11 pm: |
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I agree Robyn - if he bet on football he can hang it up.
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:14 pm: |
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he'll be alright, he will have to kiss a little peta arse after he does his time but he'll be ok. vick is still a top 15 quarterback in the nfl. although there have some reports that he may have to play wide receiver, running back, or special teams... but what ever the case he'll be able to get back in. the only thing stopping him will be the commish. i hope he comes back better than ever, he hasn't spent a day in jail yet, but i bet he learned his lesson. his cousin and his boys are screwed when they go to jail ... i don't believe in the "stop snitchin" campaign, but in this case they should've taken the hit and got compensated later like greg anderson (barry bonds). |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 539
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:38 pm: |
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Why should they have "taken the hit?" for him?
They were looking at lonnnnnnnnng time, when they were just his go-fers. He was the one financing the whole stupid operation. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9647
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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They say that, money-wise, Vick is set for life. And he can probably play ball in Canada if the NFL bans him. I think he should be given a second chance after he's paid his debt to the animal world and to show how much he wants to atone, should come and play with the Chicago BEARS. Their quarterback sucks! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5587
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:00 pm: |
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LOL @ Cynique. Always looking for that silver lining. |
Moonsigns
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 02:28 pm: |
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If Vick tormented - and killed - the 3 or 4 dogs the media reported, he is a freakin' weirdo!!!! However, to me, giving the man any time for "dog fighting" (without the tormenting and killing) is absolutely ridiculous!!!! I also happen to agree with Roybnmarie. If he's found to have participated in any other sort of gambling, he's toast!
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 540
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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Dog fighting is against the law in every state. It may be ridiculous, but MV was aware it is illegal because he went to great lengths to hide his activities and lied to the NFL about it too.
MV has owned up to his mistakes and lies and should be able to(after he gets out of the joint)play football somewhere.
Hey Cynique, at least y'all have a team. Here in L.A. we got squat. LOL. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 03:46 pm: |
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I am still not following this that closely. But it sounds like the breeding/fighting/betting thing was a big and profitable enterprise. Too bad he couldn't have put this business savvy to use in a legal endeavor.
D.L. Hugley (spl?) has this bit with the punchline "keeping it real" versus "just trying to really keep it." All these wealthy folks who get caught doing bad--often in conjunction with their friends from back in the day--should commit it to memory. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2584
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 07:16 pm: |
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"If Vick tormented - and killed - the 3 or 4 dogs the media reported, he is a freakin' weirdo!!!! However, to me, giving the man any time for "dog fighting" (without the tormenting and killing) is absolutely ridiculous!!!! "
Understood. But it depends on the law. There are no federal laws against cruelty to animals (that I know of -those are state laws). But there are laws against organized dog fighting (because of the gambling aspect). They can only prosecute him for the laws on the federal books. And if you have noticed, there are certain activities or behavior that may take place and deemed as criminal or immoral in nature. But there may not be a particular law in place to address the particular behavior or event. That's why many laws are created and implemented after the fact. But there are no federal laws against cruelty to dogs.
Vick is guilty as hell. Initially, he openly lied and denied any involvement or participation in dog fighting. But since witnesses and willing participants agreed to testify against him, he knew it was an up hill battle that he would likely lose. It's like bro Bill and Monica. He stridently lied and denied any sexual involvement with her at first. But when she agreed to provide a skirt with....ummmm.....a sample of his reproductive DNA on it, well....it was a done deal. And he knew it. Same goes for Vick.
There was a segment on Bryant Gumble's HBO Real Sports program last week about dog fighting. It was sickening. They showed how the animals were trained (at the expense of other dogs -e.g., taping their mouths so they could not fight back only to have another dog bite and rip then apart) and disposed of if they continued to lose or did not show the desired level of aggressiveness. When Vicks premise was raided they found dog training equipment, fighting arenas and 66 dogs, mostly Pit Bulls!! What the fukc is he doing with 66 Pit Bulls on his property???? Was he running a Pit Bull rescue farm? Not hardly.
They also found dog carcasses that were mutilated. Vick and three other men were indicted on federal felony and misdemeanor charges relating to a six-year long continuing criminal enterprise of an interstate dog fighting ring known as "Bad Newz Kennels". Naturally the interstate gambling makes it a federal crime. It sealed his fate.
And for the record, I take no glee nor satisfaction with the idea of a 27 year old black man who is a multimillionaire franchise gifted athlete going to prison. But I have no sympathy for him. He knew what he was doing and he was caught. Don't like the charges or the possibility of going to jail? Don't do the crime.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9673
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 09:13 pm: |
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I am NOT a fan of Michael Vick. Never have been.
There's always been a smugness about him I find grating.
And although he's immensely talented, Vick strikes me as that classic talented person who's total proves to be worth LESS than the sum of his individual parts.
Still. I can't help blinking at all the consternation over what he's (alleged to have) done.
Mutilate and kill a dog, it's a crime.
Mutilate and kill a chicken, it's dinner.
*shrugs* |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:04 pm: |
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ain't chicken fighting a criminal offense too? Don't they super glue razor blades to those little ugly chicken feet and tie them together and make em fight until one is dead?
And don'they take kangaroos over in Australia and put boxing gloves on them whith knives tied to the gloves and send them over with russel crowe and them and then have these secret kangaroo boxing matches. I think Bugs Bunny was arrested back in the day for this very thing and they sent him to federal prison too and ummmm...uh ruh.... never mind. HA! |
Doberman23
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Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 01-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 02:16 am: |
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actually my fellow lawyers, if he had got his dog fight on in 3 states it is only a misdemeanor. and his boy shuld have taken the hit, because if his boys punk ass wasn't selling drugs (which they where looking for in the first place) whilst residing in that house, then they wouldn't have gotten caught. well at least not so soon. oh well, his boys are going to be the ones who are looked at as snitches and vick prolly has some thugs on his pay roll that are locked away and they will get some of that good ol' jail justice for the sell out. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2588
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 08:50 am: |
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"Still. I can't help blinking at all the consternation over what he's (alleged to have) done."
Nothing is alleged at this point bro. He's guilty! They found all the physical evidence (66 Pit Bulls, dog carcasses, dog training apparatuses and gear, fighting arenas, etc...) on his property plus four individuals who are willing to testify against him. He is not a victim nor is he being unfairly framed. It's the same as when the police raided Jeffery Dahmer's apartment and found a freezer of dismembered body parts, decapitated human heads and severed male sexual organs in his refrigerator along with a video taped confession and asserting that he allegedely committed the murders. No -he did it!
"Mutilate and kill a dog, it's a crime."
Yep! It's against state law. Dogs are domesticated animals.
"Mutilate and kill a chicken, it's dinner."
Yep! Chickens (cows and pigs also) are deemed as a source for food. Dogs are not (well.....not in the US). There is no law stating raising dogs for a food source -is legal. That is the reason why chickens are raised and bred -for food. But cock fighting is illegal ( in the US). Even though cows are used as a major source of food in the US, bullfighting is illegal.
Bottom line ABM, you can raise chickens, cows and pigs and eat them. It's legal. But these animals are not to be brutalized, tortured and used in sadistic sports for the sole purpose of entertainement. Dogs included. This may greatly offend you, but it is the law.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5117
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 10:42 am: |
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(You can kill a a human being and get probation--but kill a dog and people want you to go to jail.
This is a sick society and it shall have its reward. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5593
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:08 am: |
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The NAACP just held a press conference, at around 10:00 EST, in support of Michael Vick and stated that he should be allowed to resume his career once he has served his sentence. I didn't catch it all because the TV's in another room and I didn't have the volume up to hear all the details, and as usual CNN cut their coverage short in the middle of it. But there might be more info on the NAACP website later on today.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5121
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:13 am: |
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The NAACP just held a press conference, at around 10:00 EST, in support of Michael Vick and stated that he should be allowed to resume his career once he has served his sentence
(Now they are getting ridiculous in the other direction. I know it is about race but they should stay out of it. The Negro wasn't sitting in trying to desegregate a lunch counter. He was acting a fool.
Though I don't think he should go to jail over it. They were dogs for cristsakes. George Bush has killed thousands of people on a lie and nobody is saying nothing. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5122
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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They say that, money-wise, Vick is set for life.
(Before this he was. The Falcolns probably have morality clauses in the contract to keep him from getting paid all that money.)
And he can probably play ball in Canada if the NFL bans him.
(Pretty big of you talking for the Canadians. The last I heard that country was run by white animal lovers, too)
LOL @ Cynique. Always looking for that silver lining.
(She wouldn't be finding a silver lining if they were getting ready to send HER to jail!) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9674
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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Ntfs: "Nothing is alleged at this point bro. He's guilty!"
I’m not necessarily expressing any doubt about what Vick’s been accused of doing. I say "alleged" only to respect the fact that I am unaware of there having been any formal, public declaration of his guilt.
Ntfs: " Yep! Chickens (cows and pigs also) are deemed as a source for food. Dogs are not (well.....not in the US). There is no law stating raising dogs for a food source -is legal. That is the reason why chickens are raised and bred -for food. But cock fighting is illegal ( in the US). Even though cows are used as a major source of food in the US, bullfighting is illegal...Bottom line ABM, you can raise chickens, cows and pigs and eat them. It's legal. But these animals are not to be brutalized, tortured and used in sadistic sports for the sole purpose of entertainement. Dogs included. This may greatly offend you, but it is the law."
Let me preface what is to follow by my declaring I am NOT an animal activist of any sort. I mean, do I want to see foks killing animals on the street? No. But do I think someone’s livelihood and life should be permanently wrecked via their killing a dog? Frankly...No. (And, understand, I say that WHILE I could hardly give a dayam whether Michael Vick ever again plays a single down of pro football).
My basic morality on this issue is Human (and maybe dolphin) FIRST. Everything else LAST.
Now. I do think we should as best we can respect the animal kingdom if for nothing other than the purposes of ecological self-preservation (destruction of part of the food chain might eventually harm us humans). But I don’t elevate non-human to the position of regard and empathy I do homo sapiens.
I mean, really, if some mofo wants to sacrifice sheep to satan in the privacy of his own basement I figure, as long as he ain’t creating any health hazards for others...let’em.
And if that pisses off the Animal Right crowd, then, well, I’d like to just introduce them to my middle finger as I chew on a juicy rack of lamb chops.
Now, having said that, I also say that because we choose to breed and raise an animal to be or to be treated a certain way does NOT mean that, in the grander scheme of things, our doing such were justified.
I seriously DOUBT your average chicken would make the logical distinctions and rationalization you make between how they’re by the 100’s of MILLIONS treated versus that of how much FEWER dogs are mistreated annually.
And here’s betting were YOU some farm-raised chicken, you’d think differently too. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9655
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 01:30 pm: |
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I guess chrishayden can't figure out that Michael Vick already has a fortune without depending on earning any more money. And as one sports pundit said, people will pay to see Vick play because they'd love to boo him. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5141
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:03 am: |
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guess chrishayden can't figure out that Michael Vick already has a fortune without depending on earning any more money. And as one sports pundit said, people will pay to see Vick play because they'd love to boo him.
(You go to jail for him then if you think he's having such a picnic) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9691
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 12:28 pm: |
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I didn't say he was having a picnic! I simply noted that he was not destitute. |
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