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Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:13 pm: | 
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(Hopefully this does not turn into a colorism, or hate black men tangent)
Okay. So.
Is it possible to be PRO BLACK and have a partner who is not BLACK?
Can you really state that you're race conscious, Race proud and then not be with someone of the same race?
I heard an interview once with Black Women, quite OPENLY stating to dating White Men. Do you think it is a DOUBLE standard between interracial dating btwn BM/BW?
What exactly is PRO BLACK, and who defines it? |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:24 pm: |
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No I don't. Here is the reason why? If you truly love Blackness you would do everything in your power to produce it. Its not a two-way street. I don't think it is a double-standard at all. A few Black women leaving the Black community does not AFFECT us at all.
However, a large quantity of Black men leaving you definately feel the effects. Like Kola said the conditions of the Black community are determined by Black men. Now if there are no Black men in our community where does that leave us?? |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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In fact that is the same reason why the Black movement has become a JOKE. You have Black men like Dave Chappelle, Harry Belafonte, and James Earl Jones being its loudest VOICES!! And anybody who looks at these Black men and there White wives can see this is a joke. |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 140
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:29 pm: |
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But you are dismissing the actions of the Black Women. So to you, a black woman dating a white man is more acceptable? |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 490
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:32 pm: |
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I think being pro-Black means you strongly desire to see the Black community, as a whole, do well and reach for bigger and better. Yet, for better or worse, those are your "people."
However, I don't feel whom anyone choses to date/love/marry NECESSARILY negates or invalidates their "Blackness" or their ties to the Black community. For example, pork is a staple in the Black American "soul food" diet, yet many Blacks chose not to eat pork. So now, are they LESS Black because they've made a concious decision not to eat a certain food that is traditionally part of the Black American diet? So I personally don't think that a Black (wo)man who dates/loves/marries a non-Black can automatically be said to be rejecting/denying/has a problem with his/her "Blackness," and therefore, is not pro-Black because they've made such a choice. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9479
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:42 pm: |
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Sabiana,
I guess it depends upon how you define being PRO-BLACK. I mean, I guess you can still be very supportive of Black people, issues and causes while being mated with a non-Black person (Hell. There are some all-White couples who are more supportive of Black foks/causes than many all-BLACK ones.). But I do think there were be MANY times when one's fidelity to Blackness will conflict with what's required to PEACEFULLY maintain a racially/ethically diverse family.
Serena,
Assuming I accept the rational behind your double-standard (which, btw, I do not), what happens when the numbers and percentages of Black women interracially dating/mating begin to rival those of Black men? |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1702
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:44 pm: |
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I'm not dismissing the actions of anybody. In fact Black women are the main teachers in our communities. But lets look at the numbers Black men are almost 3 times as likely to leave the Black community as women. And the few Black women that are leaving are not doing so in mass numbers.
60% of Black men who earn over $100,000.00 a year marry "out". When you look at this it makes a huge difference. These are Doctors, Lawyers, Bankers, Teachers etc. Ppl that are desperately needed in the Black community. And even if these Black men weren't all these things its there male influence that is greatly needed. |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 141
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:52 pm: |
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I agree.
But many would say that a Black Man who dates outside his race/ and procreates (lol) with that person, does negate his blackness. Somehow, to some people, black men are marrying white women will somehow bring the end to the black race. (and on, and on)
Black Love, Black Race, and [Loyalty.] I think the same thing can be said about other minorities also, (i.e Asians).
I'm not excluding self-hatred. Self-worth and importance are important in a world that is Euro Dominated-but still. I'm trying hard not to generalize.
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Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1703
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 03:53 pm: |
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Well see that problem with that ABM is that you are speaking "hypothetically". And this is not a "hypothectical" situation.
FACT: Black men are 3 times as likely to leave the Black community as women!!
And here is my take on the "situation". I personally don't think that BW/WM will ever catch up to BM/WW because White society won't let that happen. White society will never allow Black women into there society the way they do Black men. And they reluctantly allowed Black men in. And that is because Black men have literally castrated themselves to do so.
White sociey is not "STUPID". They know that if these same Black men were to stay in the Black community how much better off we would be. Which is why they encourage us to leave. They also know that Black women have very little "to any" power within the Black community. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:00 pm: |
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Black Love, Black Race, and [Loyalty.] I think the same thing can be said about other minorities also,
You are RIGHT Sabiana things that only a Black man can teach. But what do you do when the men don't even know those things?? |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 142
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:04 pm: |
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(With Urban_Scribe)
_____________________________________________
Abm, do you believe that as a race, we have internalized racism from White People? And let them, in some way (media, movies, tv.) define what blackness is? (A section, from what we know ourselves)
I think BET is actually owned by Viacom or a white company. So is BET pro Black, (HELL NAW!)
________________________________________________________
SerenaSailor, I am not trying to attack you in ANY WAY...but do you HATE Black Men? You do know not all Black Men are not inherently evil, and do not ALL THINK the same way? Damn.
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Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1705
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:10 pm: |
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See Sabiana this is where you are getting me WRONG!! I am not ATTACKING Black men in any way, shape, or form. However, Black men themselves will be the quickest to admit that we have not "held up" to our end of the bargain.
And believe me everything I am saying is out of LOVE not hate!! |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 143
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:10 pm: |
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Where are you coming from? I was raised and surrounded by beautiful Black Men, a great BLACK father, and a Wonderful BLACK brother. Yes, there were some black men assholes (but so were the other guys of various races), but still. I have a wonderful BLACK boyfriend who loves me for who I am. I would admit that seeing a Black Man with someone of another race may bother me, but I have decided to let it go. I have NO say in what a Black Man decides to do or love or marry. I'm sure this will not bring the end to the black race. (LOL) And Black Men should not be alone in teaching self-love. It should start with us also. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1706
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:18 pm: |
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No offense Sabiana but you sound like a DEFEATED Black women!! Making excuses like: Uh...Most of the Black men I know love Black women...Uh There are Bad men of other races...Uh I have no control over who Black men date/marry...
ALL DEFEATED ANSWERS THAT DEFEATED BLACK WOMEN GIVE!!
Fact: Most of the Black men I know are good ppl too. Even the ones in IR relationships. However its these good Black men who "sit back" and say nothing to these evil, abusive Black men(few that they are) they are wreaking alot of havoc in our communities.
Fact: Of course you have no control over who anybody else dates/marries. However, YOU DO have control over your Black SONS. And you and only YOU can teach them to LOVE themselves and Black women.
GET IT!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9480
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:20 pm: |
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Serena,
I've read that at present the rate of INCREASE of Black women marrying non-Black is actually GREATER than that of the rates of increase of Black men marrying non-Black. So if the current trends hold up eventhough there currently are more Black men with non-Black women than there are Black women with non-Black men that might not be the case 20 or so years from now. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1707
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:22 pm: |
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I don't know where you are getting your info from ABM but that is not the case!! At all!!! Almost 12% of Black men are dating/married to non-Black women. Whereas only 5% of women. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:24 pm: |
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And again Sabiana just to ellaborate on what I last said how can a Black mother teach her sons to love/value themselves when that is not being reinforced from Black men? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9481
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:26 pm: |
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Sabiana,
Yes. Much of what we think of Blackness is a product of and response to what White foks think, do and expect of us.
But I also think that Black foks, especially African Americans, have valiantly fought to and have often succeed at developing and maintaining some sense of self that isn't wholly prescribed/dictated by Whites.
The debate is the degree to which we have and are succeeding at such. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9484
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:39 pm: |
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Serena,
You're viewing the numbers/percentages at one point in time. I'm saying the rate of INCREASE over the last +10 year of Black women interracially dating/marrying surpasses that of Black men. And as more sistas feel free to jump the broom with non-Black men OTHER sistas will more seriously consider it to be a option to/for them. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 946
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Abm cause an effect is what happening sisters dont want men of other races but as mass exodus of black men takes place what else can they do? thats whats happening so Serenda is right that black men set the condition ofthe community how can they not? all men do |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9486
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:57 pm: |
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Enchanted,
1: The issue is not Black men mating with non-Black women. Because, believe it or not, overall they're still pretty much in the minority. The REAL issue is that many Black men are...unmatable (e.g., no job, no education, incarcerated, etc.), thus artificially inflating the perceived value of those brothas that are matable.
2: It never ceases to amaze me how Black women can birth/raise Black men yet absolve themselves of any/all accountability/responsibility on the issue of brothas marrying Beckys. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9246
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 05:00 pm: |
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Blackness is not something that you can separate yourself from. It's how you embrace and act upon your blackness that defines you, and whether a black person chooses to diversify their preferences in mates is a matter of personal choice. IMO. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2407
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 07:37 pm: |
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It's possible to be pro-black while in an interracial relationship.
However, imo, a lot of people (not all, and I'm hoping not a very high percentage) who are in interracial relationships are not necessarily in it for love.
When it's a genuine love, the person can be both in an I.R. relationship and pro-black. However, when someone is with someone for some B.S. reason (kids with good hair, we're black enough in our family, I like the look people give when we're together, I want to piss off white/black folks, black men/women are all cheats/sluts/fat, etc.) you know the person isn't pro-black, and I don't care how much rap they listen to, how many "niggas" they're down with, what neighborhood they live in, or whatever.
What's unfortunate in our community is that we base too much on whether or not someone is "pro-black" on all of the little shallow crap they do that means nothing.
I would much rather have someone in the black community who is married interracially but teaches his children to love Africa and black people as a whole, and is willing to support black business, and doesn't berate someone for wearing an afro BEFORE I would want to accept someone who has black children and tells them they have "bad hair" that needs to be fixed, hopes their kids don't bring any "dark babies", and has children they've never met.
ABM, I think that in a lot of black communities, the thought of a man staying with a woman is SO REMOVED from what's considered normal that men in those communities don't even consider marrying a black woman. I blame a lot of this on welfare. It's at a point where it's more common to have a "baby mama" than it is to have a wife. And for a lot of men, to have a FEW "baby mamas" is what defines manhood for them. Men who don't even KNOW their father, know that he had a lot of kids. And that's all they've been taught from their father.
Women can't raise men. They think they can, they tell themselves they can because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE when the fathers walk out.....but women can't raise men. We can raise BOYS...which is why our "men" still act like boys even into their 40's or older. "Men" who think that women can raise a man and don't blink when leaving his kids (because his mother did so "successfully") don't even realize that they're being a BOY and running like a boy because that's just what their mother raised. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9490
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:04 pm: |
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Renata,
*bowing* |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9491
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:10 pm: |
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Renata,
I believe TWO things will have to happen to turn things around:
1) Black women being made to realize the whole mighty Black mother thing has always been a pipedream that's done them more harm than good and that they NEED their children fathers to be...FATHERS.
2) Wholesale disowning, dishonoring and castigation of Black men who do NOT marry and raise their children. And I mean father and mother disowning deadbeats sons, employers demoting and firing negligent fathers, and Black MEN confronting and castigating niggas for not taking care of their children. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2412
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:26 pm: |
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#2 is a pipedream...but if you can get that up and running, I will support you 200%. The truth is that we still live in a society where a woman with ONE child that she's taking care of will be called a whore/slut, and a man with 15 kids won't even be blinked at.
Seriously, that's just one reason I wanted a daughter rather than a son. I figured, "a daughter might bring me one grandchild...a son might bring ten."
One SERIOUS thing I wish women could figure the hell out......if you're dating a dude and he has two kids and hasn't been married...chances are he's going to impregnate you and leave you, too.
I'm really lucky, though. If my son ever has a child he doesn't care for, I can count on my husband to beat the crap out of him. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9495
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:28 pm: |
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Renata,
If we don't get #2 going we may as well call FORGET about things getting better.
I'm going to start what will become a STRONG movement on #2. Look for it... |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2413
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:37 pm: |
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Cool, seriously.......if you ever write a book on it, I will help with editing and will DEFINITELY help you promote it. That's a PROMISE. |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4628
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 08:51 pm: |
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ABM:
I'm going to start what will become a STRONG movement on #2. Look for it...
KOLA:
MY HERO!!!!!!! 
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9496
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 09:02 pm: |
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Ladies,
Thanks! |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 491
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 09:35 pm: |
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1) Black women being made to realize the whole mighty Black mother thing has always been a pipedream that's done them more harm than good and that they NEED their children fathers to be...FATHERS.
My mom has a theory about this. She says every child needs both: a mother and a father.
A boy needs a mother to teach him to be a gentleman, and he needs a father to teach him to be a man.
A girl needs a mother to teach her to be a woman, and she needs a father to teach her to be a lady.
We tend to focus on BOYS needing a father around and mothers can't raise sons alone, but few of us mention/realize that GIRLS also need a father around. Nonetheless, many of us overlook that MOTHERS are often left with NO CHOICE but to be mothers AND fathers; and do the very best they can at being both. I think FEW women choose to be single-mothers.
I call myself a single-mother because I'm divorced from my kids' father. But, really, I'm giving myself too much credit because my kids' father is active in their lives. My kids have TWO sets of house keys, and it's not uncommon for my teenagers to call me, especially on a Friday night, and say: Mom, I'm spending the night at Dad's. Their father helps me with them emotionally, physically, spiritually, and financially.
My second oldest son, 16, called himself getting a flip-lip with me toward the end of this school term. I called my ex and told him what Mr. Man mumbled under his breath. His father came and picked him up THAT SAME NIGHT. Now my boy's spending the summer with his dad - refinishing the basement and pouring cement in his father's backyard and any other back-breaking chores his father can find for him to do. He's on lockdown for the WHOLE SUMMER.
When I was a teenager, I had a part-time job. I was buying my own clothes, cosmetics, paying my own carfare, and so forth. I was barely home, so I usually ate out - and paid for that, too. You couldn't tell me I wasn't grown. HA! HA! Anyway, I used to go to a lot of house/basement parties and my mom used to come and pull me out of them in the middle of the night, well, morning really. She'd yell and scream and curse and beat me in the street. Soon as the next party came, guess what? My little fast ass was there!
My friends used to tease me: We gotta hide you, your moms should be knocking any minute now! Well guess what, my DAD showed up - and shut the whole party DOWN! And the next time I partied was when I celebrated my eldest son's 1st birthday. By that time, I'd finished school, had my own house, had a career, had money in the bank, and was married - because I was a GIRL who had a FATHER.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9502
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 09:59 pm: |
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Urban_scribe,
I catagorically agree with your mom. It's take the parent of the OPPOSITE sex to train the child how to properly treat and be treated by the OPPOSITE sex.
Or, as your mom say, fathers train ladies and mothers train gentlemen.
I'm happy to see your ex is as involved in raising his children as you are.
A Black man being a good, dutiful father. Imagine that. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2417
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:22 pm: |
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I agree with you, Urban_Scribe. I just mentioned men because for the most part they have no role models, and more importantly, women don't leave their children. |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4637
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
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Wow, Renata and Urban_scribe, you're both on point.
Excellent posts!!!
Posts to LIVE BY, as a matter of fact.
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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 865
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 01:18 am: |
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This entire thread sounds like a bunch of "pain in the ass" black women. Attitude-driven junkies high off of negativity. |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 145
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 07:00 am: |
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Nels, is not your post loaded with negativity as well.
And with the "labeling". I made sure to post a topic that would not spur Anti-Black reactions towards Black Men.
If you would take the time to read the responses, you would see the same. We are having a intelligent discussion btwn bm/bw without so much neg vibes.
Why can't you do the same?
BUT, this is a open board, so Assholic opinions can be noted and said. Could you at least answer my initial questions? |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2422
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 12:08 pm: |
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LOL....Nels probably has a few "bitter" kids of his own who haven't seen him since 1981. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4864
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 01:32 pm: |
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2) Wholesale disowning, dishonoring and castigation of Black men who do NOT marry and raise their children. And I mean father and mother disowning deadbeats sons, employers demoting and firing negligent fathers, and Black MEN confronting and castigating niggas for not taking care of their children.
(What are you going to do to the white black yellow brown men who do the same thing?
And isn't this one basis of the reparations movement? The fact that white men disowned and did not support their offspring? Okay?
And don't gimme dat--"I hold black men to a higher standard" stuff either. To tell the truth lots of black kids are in better shape because their old men WEREN'T around--those that were wack, crazy, criminal screwed up, child molesters, etc.
And the world would be better off if some of these wonderful white two parent families had been broke up--I bet that wrestler's wife and child would wish he'd have up and left home--if they were still alive.
We have to face facts. America would not be a paradise if it was all two parent families-- |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4872
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 02:46 pm: |
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And isn't this one basis of the reparations movement? The fact that white men disowned and did not support their offspring? Okay?
(That is white SLAVEOWNERS who impregnated their slaves--and after slavery and on up to this time
If you are going to give Strom Thurmond a pass I'm sorry--I'm not going to confront one black man.
And are you going to confront RICH black men like Bill Cosby?
And how about other Black men like CLARENCE THOMAS who forsake their black wives and children and run off with white women? |
Libralind2
Veteran Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 885
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 07:37 pm: |
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If your white and Pro-Black, do the same standards apply..?
LiLi |
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