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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2109
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:10 pm: | 
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What a mess, baby
Parents say fertility clinic botched in-vitro & girl's got the wrong dad
Thursday, March 22nd 2007, 4:00 AM
Thomas Andrews and his wife, Nancy, got a surprise when daughter Jessica (l.) was born: Looks like Thomas wasn't the dad.
A Long Island woman and her husband are suing a Park Ave. fertility clinic for allegedly inseminating her with the wrong man's sperm.
After struggling to conceive their second child, Nancy Andrews and her husband, Thomas, turned to New York Medical Services for Reproductive Medicine for in-vitro fertilization treatments, according to a lawsuit.
Andrews soon became pregnant and the couple was overjoyed. They only discovered the clinic's "colossal blunder" after Andrews gave birth to her daughter Jessica, court papers charge.
"While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we look at her," the Commack couple said in documents filed in Manhattan Supreme Court. "It is simply impossible to ignore."
Thomas Andrews is white and his wife is Dominican. But Jessica, who was born Oct. 19, 2004, has darker skin than either of them as well as "characteristics more typical of African or African-American descent," the lawsuit states.
The couple tested their daughter's DNA using a home kit and later with two more sophisticated methods. All three of the tests confirmed their suspicions - the tot has a different father.
"We underwent a difficult and complex medical procedure for the sole purpose of bearing a child of our own," the couple said in court papers. "We were never informed that this type of mishap could occur, and frankly, this type of mishap is almost unimaginable."
In legal documents, the couple said they were "emotionally devastated" when they found out Thomas Andrews, who had donated his sperm to be inseminated in his wife, was not the girl's biological father.
"We fear that our daughter will be the object of scorn and ridicule by other children, both in school and as she grows up," they said.
In a decision made public yesterday, State Supreme Court Justice Sheila Abdus-Salaam threw out parts of the couple's lawsuit - including a claim that they had suffered mental distress.
"The birth of an unwanted but otherwise healthy and normal child does not constitute an injury to the child's parents," Abdus-Salaam wrote.
But the judge allowed the malpractice lawsuit to proceed against New York Medical Services for Reproductive Medicine. A previous court ruling already had found the clinic's owner, Dr. Reginald Puckett, liable for inseminating Nancy Andrews with the wrong sperm, documents show.
The couple is seeking unspecified damages for the error.
Puckett's attorney did not return calls yesterday.
The Andrews, whose eldest daughter was born on Christmas Day in 2002, declined to comment through their attorney.
jmartinez@edit.nydailynews.com |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 388
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:27 pm: |
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"While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we look at her," the Commack couple said in documents filed in Manhattan Supreme Court. "It is simply impossible to ignore."
Lemme see if I follow this: Dominican Mom is Mom, biologically, but White Dad ain't Dad, biologically. Yet, the couple issued the stupid, and might I say racist, statement that they love her as their own. Well, uhm, I hate to break this to Dominican Mom, but JESSICA IS YOUR BABY. No doubt, Jessica, at least partly, inherited her African/African-American features from her DOMINICAN MOTHER. I wonder if Baby Jessica had blonde hair and blue eyes and White Dad still wasn't Dad if there would even be a lawsuit.
If there ever was a case for a child to divorce her parents - this is it. Poor Baby.
This is where I have a problem with doctors playing God. Obviously, there was a good reason why this couple was CURSED not to bear any more children. But then doctors, modern medicine and technology, and let us not forget money (artificial insemination ain't cheap, and, as far as I know, it's an elective procedure, therefore, not covered by any health insurance) step in and undo God's plan. HA! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:39 pm: |
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urban_scribe:
Obviously, there was a good reason why this couple was CURSED not to bear any more children.
You aren't playin nice. This 'case' is pure foolish, and it shows the omnipresence of ignorance...i wonder if they sperm actually came from an african american or someone self-identified as black...from my reading, the article doesn't say. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 389
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:55 pm: |
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Yukio wrote:
This 'case' is pure foolish, and it shows the omnipresence of ignorance...
I couldn't agree more. This is outrageous, sad.
You aren't playin nice.
That's funny. You made my night! |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 708
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:22 pm: |
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You saw the mother on Nancy Grace? She doesnt look very black like more multi-race and the baby look like India Arie or somebody child from Ghana. she was crying so much I fear for that child.
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Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 857
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:31 pm: |
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what i gathered from the article was it sounded more like a case of the mother being disappointed that her HUSBAND wasnt the father of the baby than an issue of colorism.
the couple was lookinf foreward to being able to have a child togather of their own..
yes i know colorism runs rampant (especially in the dominican republic) but i think this was more an issue of them being upset that they didnt have thier own child togather like the=y had expected. still, i do feel sorry for the baby. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 709
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:49 pm: |
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Yes Misty and the mother doesnt look black so it very difficutl situation for those parents. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 390
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:51 pm: |
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No, I don't watch Nancy Grace. But if the mother appears to be multiracial, that's even more reason why she shouldn't be shocked to give birth to a child who is darker or lighter than herself. That happens frequently amongst multiracial people.
Misty, I would also be disappointed, perhaps even enraged, if I'd expected to be artificially inseminated by my husband and it turned out I was fertilized by another man; a total stranger.
But this, to me, runs deeper than that by the couple's very statements. Colorism, if not downright racism and ignorance, is certainly at play here.
Let's not forget that Baby Jessica IS the mother's NATURAL child. For the COUPLE to issue the statement, "While we love Baby Jessica as our own..." B!TCH, she IS your own!
I could understand the "father" making such a statment - because she's not his biological child. But, the MOTHER. Again, the COUPLE issued that statement. There's a lot wrong here; much more than the fertility clinic botching the procedure. Poor Baby Jessica. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4199
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:24 pm: |
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The word is atavism. I'm in agreement with what you're saying U.S. except my feelings are probably stronger. If people can't have children, it's not meant for them to have any. Why can't they just accept that and get a dog or something, instead of undergoing these artificial procedures.
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2119
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/03/22/2007-03-22_what_a_mess_baby-1.html
I guess ignorance is bliss. Misty and Enchanted, as you both know, Domincans are of African descent, so the fact that the child is darker than the mother was always a possibility regardless of the father's blood.
Also, Misty, it is clearly about color. I submit:
"While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we LOOK [emphasis mine] at her," the Commack couple said in documents filed in Manhattan Supreme Court. "It is simply impossible to IGNORE [emphasis mine]."
Most illustrative, however, is:
Thomas Andrews is white and his wife is Dominican. But Jessica, who was born Oct. 19, 2004, has darker skin than either of them as well as "characteristics more typical of AFRICAN [Emphasis mine] or AFRICAN-AMERICAN [emphasis mine]descent," the lawsuit states.
Clearly, as the lawsuit suggests, there is an assumption that a Dominican [national identification] and a white man [alleged racial identification] can not produce a child that looks like Jessica.
This is foolish when close to 50 per cent of the island is comprised of people much, much darker than the child. And, as we see, the Mrs. Andrews aint the couldn't pass for white!
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Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:23 am: |
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Yukio when I saw her on tv she looked Latina and definitely not black in this photo she looks more colored but on tv she her hair was straight and face features are white shes not the type to relate to black IMO my point being you keep assuming she sees herself as black when why should she?
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:41 am: |
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Enchanted: I'm not assuming anything. Dominicans are of African descent. In the Dominican Republic she will see people you and I would identify as black; dark skinned people w/African features...not 'fair' skinned folk.
By the way Enchanted, latin identifies one's preferred geographical heritage not necessarily their ancestry. History, in this case slavery, is responsible for her hair texture and color. The majority of 'latins' in the Caribbean but not as much in central and south America are of African descent.
This foolishnes, and the ignorance, is exemplified by the idea that she would deny the fact that regardless of the father of her child, that there is always the possibility for her children to have dark skin and 'African' features. Also, that on her very island, far far away from Africa but not to far from African Americans, there are people who one could not distinguish from Africans, Africans.
They are descendants, like African Americans, of African slaves.
During slavery and the jim crow period [and I'm sure in the present]there were "black" people who passed as white and would not have children because they were afraid that their children would have a darker hue. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9019
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 07:21 am: |
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Given that Whites are much more likely to be donating sperm and be involved fertility schemes, what's the likelihood that a woman can ACCIDENTLY be inseminated with the sperm of a BLACK man? |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 298
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 07:40 am: |
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I too would be very annoyed if I had paid all that money for artifical insemnation, to have a child with the man I love, to be told it went wrong.
People think certain aspects of science are failsafe but that isn't always the case.
However, I am disturbed by the language the mother uses. I was shocked that she said she 'loved the child as her own' beause the child IS her own. In pictures I have seen the little girl looks a lot like the mother and her other sister.
And to use 'terrible mistake' in a sentence describing your daughter's existence - sad. If the mother was bawling her eyes out on television then I worry about how the girl will perceive herself her entire life. Her parents perception will affect her far more than any bullying classmates.
In the end, people exaggerate in these lawsuits because they have a greater chance of winning so maybe that is what they are trying to do here. It isn't right but it happens all the time, it isn't a new thing.
Also, a lot of multiracial people are taken aback when they have a child darker or lighter than themselves and I suppose that is a natural reaction. And though I wouldn't say that Dominica Rep is a little africa outside of africa lol it has got more black people than it likes to let on. So I am surprised that the woman's first reaction, as a mixed raced latino, would be to reject her child.
If you look at many latinos, caribbeans and even african american families you see a lot of family which ranges from the very fair skinned to the very dark skinned. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:38 am: |
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latina_wi:
There is nothing "natural" about the woman's reaction. It is the result of centuries of hatred of black skin, and ignorance.
The assumption, first of all, that there was a mishap is based on the idea that Domincans are not of African ancestry. As you say, "latinos, caribbeans ..." cover a range of hues.
By the way, there is no such thing as 'race.' There is no such thing as a latin race.
abm: what is interesting is that the article doesn't say that the man's sperm came from a black man. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 304
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:42 am: |
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Where did I say anything about the latin race - i was talking about latins as a group of people who do come in a range of hues because their general mix.
If you had a child with a mixed woman and she came out lighter than both of you wouldn't your natural reaction be shocked?
Maybe it says a lot that people are immediately assuming this woman is a 'tragic selfhating mulatto', maybe she is just shocked and UPSET that her artifical insemnation went wrong.
I'd be pissed. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5009
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:45 am: |
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Abm, I was thinking the same thing, bruh. I smell a Suzan Smith. She gone go and blame this on some poor Black man. Brotha trying to make it with the kids he's got! LOL!!
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Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1905
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:48 am: |
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I do wonder if the child had been blue eyed and blonde, but STILL came from the wrong sperm, if the sight of the child would sicken them as much? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9024
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:50 am: |
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Yukio,
Good point. It reinforces my question.
Tonya,
It's difficult for me to divine how the sperm of a BLACK man was ACCIDENTALLY used here. Sure it's POSSIBLE. But, really, what's the LIKELIHOOD of such? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9025
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:52 am: |
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Renata,
You don't think they would agonizingly assume the child was produced from an egg that was NOT of the mother's?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 305
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:55 am: |
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Renata: I was thinking exactly the same thing.\ I bet if the baby was a blue eyed blonde the woman would probably be parading her around, crowing about her miracle and putting it down to her blonde haired, blue eyed great great great grandmother.
Lol, seen that happen so many times.
I do feel kind of sorry for the woman tho, all that money and the baby ain't even her man's. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4203
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:10 am: |
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Y'all sho be keeping it real.  |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2127
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:55 am: |
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latina_wi: You're right, you didn't say 'latin race.' I was informing just in case you didn't know. from your post, particularly your use of 'multiracial' and then "latins," caribbeans, etc..." suggested this to me...my bad.
It is strange, however, how you distinguish a person from the Caribbean from a person who is "latin," for latin refers to an area of southern europe. So-called latinos include the spaniards, the portuguese, italians, as well as folk in southern and central Americas, as well as those in the "spanish," such as yourself.
If you had a child with a mixed woman and she came out lighter than both of you wouldn't your natural reaction be shocked?
No. It is likely that my blood, as well as the 'mixed' woman's, includes European blood, first of all. There is no ready-made formula to guarantee the color of a child.
I don't remember why, for I haven't taken a biology class in almost 15 yrs, but it aint based on the complexion of the parents....at least that we were taught at my lil ol' hbcu.
People aren't assuming anything...the lawsuit says it all! And this should be clear when she says "While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we look at her." Thereafter, the lawsuit specifies african and african american.
What we are doing is called deduction. What else could they be talkin about if they are talkin about:
a. what they see when they look at her?
b. the law suit states african and african american?
One could only be shocked if they don't acknowledge their african ancestry. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 308
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:27 am: |
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Of course I know what the real meaning of the word latin is...hence my screen name and the fact I studied the latin language for several years and moreover the fact I am part latin (so will know more about the latin experience than you will lol, so you don't have to SCHOOL me  )
It isn't strange that I choose to distinguish latins and caribbeans as I personally, do not view latins as caribbeans. Geographically there are a few latin countries in the caribbean world but their culture is 'latin' in the sense that it is spanish. Mediterreans are the 'true' latin and to me, the latin world has more of this culture.
Maybe your reaction wouldn't be of shock, because you understand that you have european in your blood. However, this woman obviously hasn't rubbed the shite from her eyes when she looks in the mirror and is trying to ignore the fact that she has some black blood. Nevertheless, I could understand her shock at having such a dark child with a white man, it isn't necessarily hate - just a force of nature People expect their children to be the image of them and this child obviously isn't an image of her 'father', that is why her dark skin is so surprising. She was probably imagning the child would be lighter skinned (due to her own colour and the fact her man is europeam) and was surprised the dark skipped a few generations. A man who appears black having a white baby is an odd thing, and so this, the opposite - is going to shock people.
I am just trying to give the woman a fair trial....there could be several reasosns she reacted the way she did. The husband's reaction is understandable.
Can I also say, when this story was reported in the UK they said the couple were white even though she was recognised as latino. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 309
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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Damn my message looks rude lol. Sorry if you take it that way...I don't want to turn this interesting topic into a war of words and petty hate.\ Lol we got enough of THAT on this board! |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 922
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:14 am: |
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that woman could have snook out and got some soul sausage on the side and is trying to cover her tracks. stranger things have happened ya know. |
Americansista
Regular Poster
Username: Americansista
Post Number: 339
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:15 am: |
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Aw please, what mix up?
That heffa had some big, strapping, mandingo buck tearing the lining out of her walls, got knocked up and now she hollering, "DA CLINIC MESSED UP... AYE YAYE YAYE!"
Whatever. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9033
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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Dobes: "that woman could have snook out and got some soul sausage on the side and is trying to cover her tracks. stranger things have happened ya know."
That's what I was alluding to with respect to her ACCIDENTLY getting impregnated by Black sperm.
Because, when you think RATIONALLY about things, if the father of the child is really BLACK, YOUR's the more PLAUSIBLE conclusion to draw here. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8039
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 01:04 pm: |
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Who's to say whether or not this woman has a justifiable gripe? Who can criticize her for being disappointed? She had the baby and if she doesn't feel like she got her money's worth, then screw what other folks think. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2129
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 01:39 pm: |
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Latina_wi:
Of course I know what the real meaning of the word latin is...hence my screen name and the fact I studied the latin language for several years and moreover the fact I am part latin (so will know more about the latin experience than you will lol, so you don't have to SCHOOL me :-).
That you are 'latin' tells me nothing of what you know. If knowledge of one's culture is merely effected by being, then a Dominican should never be shocked if her child is dark skin w/kinky hair.
Studying the language w/o the attendant history doesn't equip you to address this woman's ignorance.
It isn't strange that I choose to distinguish latins and caribbeans as I personally, do not view latins as caribbeans. Geographically there are a few latin countries in the caribbean world but their culture is 'latin' in the sense that it is spanish. Mediterreans are the 'true' latin and to me, the latin world has more of this culture.
But according to you, merely being 'latin' equals knowledge of your culture...so do you thinking you can convince the whitest blue eyed Argentines that they are not truly 'latin,' or some of the darkest cubans in miami who check the 'caucausin' box when they come to this country? What about the most Indian of Mexicans...are they sorta of latin or indian?
Identification is a political choice, and when this woman is claiming that it is unlikely that she could have a kinky headed dark skinned baby, she is disowning part of her heritage in preference for another...
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Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 250
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 07:21 pm: |
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"Identification is a political choice, and when this woman is claiming that it is unlikely that she could have a kinky headed dark skinned baby, she is disowning part of her heritage in preference for another..."
BINGO!
that part of the world is SO very f*cked up. You got Puerto Ricans (Port of Rico-ans) actually believing they are a bonafide race rather than the direct descendants of some Spanish conquistadors doing some MAJOR speed f*cking passing through to their next conquests, Dominicans resisting the fact that they share land and BLOOD with HAITIANS, Italians in Argentina believing they are Spanish...
Face it... "Latin America" is the imperialist's toilet boil. bunch of culturally-tainted sh*ts mixed up in the head and blood. quite shameful. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 312
Registered: 08-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 06:33 pm: |
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Yukio give me a break...stop trying to twist my words for something or other.\ I think the context in which I was using the word latino WAS OBVIOUS.
And just like you told me in a private message, I am probbaly not liked here because I talk about african americans whilst not BEING one. So maybe you should fallback and not make assumptions on ALL Dominicians like this dumb arse woman/
AND I SAID I KNOW about being latin as I grew up as a person who KNOWS about my latin heritage who has been raised that way, which is a lot more than you could ever know or experience isn't it?...it was kind of obvious that I meant that rather than what you assumed.
I really don't get what you meant about the argentitinan reference, it was probably a straw man, because in no way did I suggest that someone isn't latin because of the way they look. Being latin is cultural, and believe it or not can be RACIAL.
And do you know this woman's history - no you don't, so your guilty of assumptions and maybe you should take heed of your own advice and not address this woman's ignorance also/
You shouldn't give people authority on what they should or shouldn't comment on. And maybe you should fall back a little when trying to school people up on their culture, okay?
I only mentioned the latin language as I was very pissed that you were trying to school someone who is part latin and making out I didn't know shite. Tryna give me facts that had fukc all to do with the article. Boy please! |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 739
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 06:37 pm: |
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latina_wi ignore Yukio you wrote evrything correctly the first time he does this with everybody preaching of course we already know there no race but he have to be particular. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 314
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 06:52 pm: |
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Lol yukio seems like a nice guy I just wonder why people have to be so bludclart pedantic all the time. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2143
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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Latina_wi: Amorcita, very little is obvious! I'll address much of what you wrote, and hopefully, I would have made amends.
Being "part latin" does not bequeath you with all there is to know about that culture! I am NOT trying to 'school' you, but your solipsism is debilitating.
You wrote:
I am probbaly not liked here because I talk about african americans whilst not BEING one.
Stubbornly, perhaps, I am not bothered by "latinos" if they don't like me. I have not claimed to know more than you about a culture of which you are a "part." In that message, I also told you not to take this place personal.
Indeed, if you were a bit more seasoned and sober about "The Corner," you'd know that I'd be the last person for anyone to make the claim:
So maybe you should fallback and not make assumptions on ALL Dominicians...
Also, a closer reading of what I actually wrote indicates, I believe, that I specified the woman and NOT the island nor Dominicans as a people.
AND I SAID I KNOW about being latin as I grew up as a person who KNOWS about my latin heritage who has been raised that way, which is a lot more than you could ever know or experience isn't it?...it was kind of obvious that I meant that rather than what you assumed.
Well, I can not read your mind. And rather than assume, I prefer to go with what you have written presently and in the past. You said you studied the latin language, and that you are part "latin."
Again, unless I am blind or illiterate or both, and age does do this to us, being "part latin," and knowing latin through study is NOT the same as growing "up as a person who KNOWS about my latin heritage who has been raised that way."
This leads me to your next statement that is related to the above; you state:
I really don't get what you meant about the argentitinan reference, it was probably a straw man, because in no way did I suggest that someone isn't latin because of the way they look. Being latin is cultural, and believe it or not can be RACIAL.
It was not a "straw man." Previously, you basically stated that you know about latin people because you are "part latin" and you studied the language. You also said that "Geographically there are a few latin countries in the caribbean world but their culture is 'latin' in the sense that it is spanish. Mediterreans are the 'true' latin and to me, the latin world has more of this culture."
Now, again, while what you wrote should be "obvious," I, for I am not a mind reader and am barely literate, based my comments on the written word. Also, since you know "latin heritage," and I am not questioning it at all, I presumed my comment would be self-explanatory, or as you say "obvious." So work with me....
The woman in the article, not Dominicans as a people, I suspect, would also make the claim that she knows her heritage, her island, etc..., as you have, because she is indeed latin and Dominican. Similarly, an Argentine, I would suspect, would also claim that they know their heritage, their nation, and their people based upon being an Argentine.
Now, ironically, Argentines are known notoriously for being anti-Indian/black. Not all, of course, but they are known to pronounce some of the words the way Spaniards do, and many of them are often quicker to identify themselves w/European and Spain than with their indigenous culture(s), which of course includes Indian with a touch of African, just a touch though.
Now, if you told an Argentine that they were not "true" latins, they would probably concede, but also have a heart attack because they would not want to embrace their African and Indian heritage....LOL!
If someone truly embraced their own heritage they more than likely would not be surprised by their child's features.
In Argentina and DR there are people who are unmistakably black and they have as much right to claim those places as their nation as does the light, fairer, and white skinned people of those islands.
In other words, for Nancy Andrews to look her child in the face and not see a child who could be Dominican is foolish and colorist....
Latina_wi, I have not made assumptions...it is called deduction. You have chosen to read the article one way, and I have chosen to read it another. But from the article, the couple questioned the child's ancestry from looking at the child. THEN they got the tests.
*This is telling....again, and I get this from Kola, when you look in the mirror, you should love what you see, right?
She is Dominican, right. And, the mirror is not only her own face, but the people of her island. So when she looks in the mirror/the island of the Dominican Republic, she should see not only white and "mixed people," but also BLACK people.
Thus, when she looks at her child, she should not say, "While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we look at her," the Commack couple said in documents filed in Manhattan Supreme Court. "It is simply impossible to ignore."
Now, perhaps, you may interpret "each and every time we look at her" to mean the knowledge of the insemination debacle. Thats one interpretation. And valid.
I interpret "each and every time we look at her," however, to mean that the child's African features as well as the insemination debacle that would cause them to characterize what happened as a "terrible mistake."
Now, I think, perhaps, it was the husband who is more surprised, but she went along with it!
Finally, let me tell u a little story:
In college, I took this course called the Black Experience. It was a requirement, thankfully....but, I remember this brother telling the prof. that he knew that black experience because he's black and was born and raised in the South....at the end of the semester, ol boy didn't do that well!
Now, I'm not a professor, your teacher, etc....but the point is, we can always learn something from others about our own culture....ok...no more pedantism...well, I'll try!
So what does bludclart mean?....I love learning new words.... |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2145
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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also, since this is a a site about books, has anyone read Edwidge Danticat's The Farming of Bones?
I know this is the Culture, Race, and Economy board, but it is quite relevant to this discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farming_of_Bones:
The novel is the story of a young Haitian, Amabelle Desir and her countrymates in the Dominican Republic. After the death of her parents, Amabelle works as a housemaid to a landowner named Don Ignacio who is of Domincan decent. Amabelle and her lover Sebastian must flee to Haiti as the Dominican Republic government begins a genocide of Haitians to "cleanse the country". The core of the story includes the pronunciation of parsley or "perejil" to further divide the Haitians from the Dominicans, and highlights how seemingly tiny details can become the basis of racial hatred.
This summary doesn't do it justice, but in order to determine the authenticity of a black person's nationality, Dominican soldiers under Trujillo's regime asked those attempting to escape the island to pronounce "perejil." The fact of the matter was/is to look at a Haitian or any black person for that matter, the Dominican soldiers could NOT tell their nationality, and therefore need they used language as a means to identify nationality, and therefore this led to the massacre of more than 10,0000 Haitians.
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Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 539
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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Blood Cot- blud cart
"fukcing" |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 01:32 pm: |
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thats what i thought, LOL! if i would have heard it, i would have got it...being out here in the PNW has debilitated by cultural acumen...LOL! |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 541
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 02:05 pm: |
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Yukio...you need, I mean I suggest that u get the hell out of the PNW fast. How bout that soul food ?? LMAO ! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2157
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 05:06 pm: |
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Soul what?! The rumor is, they have some soul food somewhere, but I aint found it!
Before, I head to the midwest, I'm going home--NYC--for 2 weeks, and get my greasy food on! Its bad here! They discriminate against non-vegetarians and non-organic eating people...kind of deep too!
My insides must be so accustomed to the slaves' cuisine and damaged, that organic food gets me sick somethings...I need some drippin fried chicken, or chittlins, to coat my stomach or something...LOL!
But I have become more health conscious, and I'm sure before I leave I'll probably integrate some of the PNW's cuisine into my own.... |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 542
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 05:35 pm: |
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There's all kind of raw food and vegan/vegetarian places here. One of my friends informed me about this Thai Vegan food place in Hollywood. One of my faves ! Since I'm almost always eating Thai. Bout to eat some green curry, bamboo shoots, tofu and squash right now. LOL ! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2158
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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Tofu aint nothin nice...YUCK! i dont care what people say...that it takes the taste of the food that it is cooked with....bs! LOL! |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 543
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 06:51 pm: |
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Curry can do wonders ! Have you ever eaten wheat meat ? LOL ! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2159
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 06:59 pm: |
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what is this world comin to? wheat meat....are you serious? |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 544
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 07:28 pm: |
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Yukio ! and you call yourself a vegan ? or do you? It taste great. Google it. LOOOOL ! They really should be serving some in your area. Ask around. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2160
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 09:28 pm: |
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naw....i'm neither vegan nor vegetarian ...none of that! I was saying that the PNW folk discriminate against meat-eaters, and i'm a typical negro, in many ways, for I gots to have me some fried chicken, some swine, and stuff like that...i'm actually thinking about making some fried chicken tonight...I don't know....maybe....yeah, I will! |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 546
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 03:57 pm: |
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Oh! I see, well I'd discriminate against you too ! LOL ! Just kidding...I used to be a strict vegetarian for 8 years...now I'm a flesh eater, and about to go veggie/vegan stylee again. Ya know whatta mean ? |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2175
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 04:07 pm: |
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Do ya thing, but I aint gonna join you...hey, i might be coming out your way....that is, southern california, right! What spots should i hit...food, clubs, lounge, etc... |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 547
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 05:41 pm: |
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Depends on what you're looking for, ie. live music, reggae, jazz, rap and what types of crowds, food etc. |
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