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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4947
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:18 am: | 
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People's Weekly World Newspaper, 03/08/07 15:49
The female experience of racism
Author: Tokumbo Bodunde
I was intrigued when I heard another Black woman use the phrase that is the headline of this article. It sounded different from sexism. And it could just be all words at this point, but whenever I see the larger-than-life ads for Eddie Murphy’s new movie “Norbit,” the phrase rises to the surface again. The ad features two images of Murphy — one as a meek, glasses-donning version of himself and the other as a severely overweight Black woman who’s pinning him down. This particular image of a Black woman is where I have to acknowledge the female experience of racism.
She is the fat, dark-skinned, loud and unattractive b[i]tch. She is positioned in “real” life and in the movie as the opposite of the Thandie Newton-ish slimmer, lighter and sweeter Black woman. She is comic relief. She is who no one, even those of us who are, wants to be. She is undesirable. She has her historical predecessors, from early American television and cinema.
She ain’t new.
Her image, however, consistently gets green-lighted as an appropriate form of comedy for the masses. Comedian Mo’Nique, bless her soul, had a popular television show in which she essentially was that woman — fat, loud and undesirable to the desired man of the show. She has one foot in those old Tom & Jerry cartoons — she’s always screaming. She’s been the character of countless comedic routines for an easy and reliable laugh.
This version of oppression is completely de-politicized, as is anything once you bring being female into the conversation, particularly when it has to do with looks. Be assured though, that if the traditional experience — the male one — of racism were displayed on billboards as if it were comic, the usual suspects would raise hell. When Jesse, Al, and some women, begin marching and addressing a movie like “Norbit,” I’ll believe that we’re getting somewhere.
I don’t know if I can wait for a march though. The mainstream representation, if there ever was one, of the female experience of racism is limited to trite debates where light-skinned and dark-skinned Black women are positioned against each other — à la India Arie/Alicia Keys of a few Grammys past, or Jennifer Hudson/Beyoncé of “Dreamgirls,” or, hell — and this one probably slipped past the radar of most — Angela Bassett/Halle Berry when Bassett explained that she passed on Berry’s “Monster’s Ball” role because she felt it was one of a prostitute.
With these instances as the context, is it any wonder that people might scoff at the notion of “the female experience of racism”? It has been the challenge of Black feminists galore to take on something people don’t realize exists. How do you explain the irony of “Norbit” opening to the number one spot on its first weekend while “Dreamgirls,” a movie that at least attempts to consider different versions of Black womanhood, stood at number 10? Or that “Dreamgirls” has helped restart Murphy’s career, and he follows with “Norbit”? We barely have the tools to consider that, once they are absorbed into the mass media marketplace, there is not much difference between Mo’Nique, Big Momma from the Martin Lawrence movies and Nell Carter from the ’80s sitcom “Gimme a Break.”
It doesn’t make a difference if it’s an actual woman, or men performing in suits, it doesn’t matter if a white person produced the image or not. The totality of these images reaching our eyes and minds via Viacom, GE or Disney all have racist and sexist implications.
It is political. Don’t be fooled by the fact that it seems like this is about looks. It’s not. It’s about humanity and economics, as racism has always been. I know Black women who look like Murphy’s female character Rasputia in “Norbit.” They are all beautiful, complex women who, as a result of real conditions in this world brought on by racism and capitalism, are overweight.
To repeatedly exaggerate us on the big screen as if it were reality and just to entertain everyone is wrong. As is being told in a multitude of ways that being Black, female and overweight is synonymous with being loud, unattractive and undesirable. It is not merely a matter of depoliticized self-esteem. It is an unacceptable, systematic practice of disregarding and disrespecting a significant and specific part of the population.
With the limits that this notion of Black womanhood imposes, everyone misses out. We narrow who we consider for a number of roles, from who we can date to who can lead all of us. So, while a number of us fixate on whether a “Black” man or a white “woman” has a shot at the White House, I refuse to act as if we, or our experiences, don’t exist or matter.
Tokumbo Bodunde (tbodunde @ hotmail.com) is a video producer and educator. She recently completed her M.A. in media studies.
http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/10698/1/362/ |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4948
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:36 am: |
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Preach, Sistah, Preach!! She didn't have to go off on us loud Sistahs, ok, lolol!!
But I totally get where she's coming from. I agree 100%
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8981
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
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Nell Carter was a WONDERFUL singer and comedic & dramatic actress. And she was very sexy, for a heavier sista.
I do NOT think that she deserves to be compared with Mo'Nique and Big Momma. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3934
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:39 am: |
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It is political. Don’t be fooled by the fact that it seems like this is about looks. It’s not. It’s about humanity and economics, as racism has always been. I know Black women who look like Murphy’s female character Rasputia in “Norbit.” They are all beautiful, complex women who, as a result of real conditions in this world brought on by racism and capitalism, are overweight.
(I was way ahead on this subject. Y'all ought to be sending me love offerings for being around here.
But this woman is succumbing to the same racism that everyone else is.
When I was in college we were taught that there were different body types. That some people are naturally overweight.
It ain't racism. It ain't capitalism. Some people are just fat.
I tend to be fat. I can drink a glass of water and gain 20 pounds. I have to work my ass to the bone to be svelte at 250.
I would never be cut and ripped. Look at them men in the strongmen contests. Big beer bellies. Fat necks.
Strong as bull. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4952
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:06 am: |
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I LOVE Nell Carter AND Mo'Nique but I understand where the sistah is coming from. They played very negative stereotypes on their shows. Nell Carter was portrayed as a caricature like figure - a mammy. And just as Bodunde wrote, Mo'Nique "essentially was that woman — fat, loud and undesirable to the desired man of the show. She has one foot in those old Tom & Jerry cartoons — she’s always screaming."
Abm, you should read Marita Golden's "Don't Play in the Sun" to get a better understanding of what this Sister is saying. All this is difficult to discuss 'cause it's hard not to come off insensitive. I think Golden and this Sister did supreme jobs tackling it tho, it's such a delicate subject but they were stern yet gentle. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8984
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:22 am: |
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Tonya,
Again. I don't equate Nell's character to that of Mo'Nique's. Nell was mammy/nanny. But her character was very smart, in control, strong, warm and funny. And she very OFTEN scored the attention and favor of attractive MEN whom she did NOT have to chase around after.
Mo'Nique is just a clown with extensions and plus-sized outfits. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7941
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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Yawn. Every problem in the black American community can be traced to racism. Not surprising since we live in a country that resonates with racism. And what would blacks do if we didn't have spokespeople to reveal what they think we are too dumb to figure out for ourselves. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
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I never watched either show, but I see them as different, too. Also, Esther Rolle's character seemed different.
But another important difference is the time period: Certainly we have come farther in Mo'Nique's day not to be retreading the same old stereotypes. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4954
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:46 am: |
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Abm,
Gotchu. But wouldn't you like to see a balance in the way dark-skinned women are being portrayed? Because that’s really all these 2 authors are suggesting.
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4955
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:50 am: |
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...Of course they're saying A LOT MORE, it is way more political than most people understand, I agree.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8989
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:59 am: |
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Tonya,
I agree that FAR too often the attractive Black female love interest (wife, fiancee, girlfriend) on TV, Cable and the cinema is hardly at all BLACK-looking. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7944
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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So who should the voting bloc of fat dark-skinned women endorse for the presidency? |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4958
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 01:24 pm: |
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She doesn't mean "political" in that sense, Cynnique. Jeez. I thought you were offended because you're NOT "too dumb to figure out for [yourself]". |
Schakspir
Veteran Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 923
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:03 pm: |
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I have seen dark-skinned black women who are extroadinarily beautiful, graceful and elegant. They don't have to be obese, loud and obnoxious. That is just a ridiculous stereotype--"mammy" all over again. "Mammy" is essentially a white man's creation, and we shouldn't see anything beautiful about it. When I see black women unable to control their weight, dressing like skanks, talking trashy, being overly loud, crude, unrefined, etc., I see yet another group of black women who have unconsciously absorbed an old slavery-time racist image of themselves. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7948
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:14 pm: |
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Aside from the fact that you seem to be lacking a sense of humor, Tonya, you might want to elaborate on the "political" aspects of this issue to substantiate your claim. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4960
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:40 pm: |
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It's not a claim; it's a simple fact. I trust that most people here at AALBC get it, unlike your joke, my bad. 
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3942
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:48 pm: |
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Gotchu. But wouldn't you like to see a balance in the way dark-skinned women are being portrayed? Because that’s really all these 2 authors are suggesting.
(I'd like to see it you'd like to see it darkskinned women would like to see it
But white people don't give a damn. TV is for white folks. They are who the advertisers are going for. They like fat, happy, sassy black women. They don't want to see the fine, competent chic black women you want.
Snow White is the heroine. 500 years in this country and we can't figure this out.
Let's be honest. Suppose it was reversed. The country was 80% black and 12% white. Do you think they'd have anything coming? |
Urban_scribe
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Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 385
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:49 pm: |
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Exactly, Schakspir. I encounter stunning, intelligent, articulate, classy, witty, sophisticated, well-groomed, in shape, and polished dark-skinned Black women on a regular basis. If a dark-skinned Black woman is loud, obese, ignorant, and obnoxious it's because she CHOOSES to be that way. She CHOOSES to feed into this negative stereotype and be the "Mammy" White society expects her to be. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3943
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 02:50 pm: |
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Aside from the fact that you seem to be lacking a sense of humor, Tonya, you might want to elaborate on the "political" aspects of this issue to substantiate your claim.
(Cynique:
As one with some experience in the matter, perhaps I can offer a suggestion.
Sometimes folks don't know when you are kidding. Perhaps it is the steely gaze and granite jaw with which you tend to post but it might help if you add--say a laugh track when you are kidding. Like a hahaha!
Just a suggestion. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7951
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:02 pm: |
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Thanx, for nothing, chrishayden. HA-Ha. And judging from the other comments on this thread, it's a good thing that Tonya didn't say that "all" people agree with this being political. I got the impression when she said "we" that the woman who wrote the article was herself fat and dark and disgruntled. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4961
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:19 pm: |
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"Let's be honest. . . .Do you think they'd have anything coming?"
I totally agree, Chris, but none of what's been stated on this thread addresses her overall point: How can we (Blacks) declare any sort of victory when the racism Black women face is still so blatant and so rampant.
We're measuring each victory by the Black man's success as if the Black Man's success and failures are the only events that ever count and we're completely overlooking "our experiences," the Black woman's experiences.
In some cases we're even making excuses for (racist) acts that are being thrust upon Black women with pretty much the same intensity as during the Jim/Jane Crow era.
All this was her overall point. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4962
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:25 pm: |
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...and if THAT'S NOT political then nothing else is. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7954
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 03:46 pm: |
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Because black women are not monolithic, political in-fighting is their biggest problem. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4966
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 06:44 pm: |
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This sort of racism assists in limiting Black women ECONOMICALLY, in movie roles, regular employment, and in positions of leadership according to Bodunde, much like the presentation of Black folks as lazy stupid childlike buffoons aided in impeding Black ppl's ability to earn a decent living back during Jim Crow.
Did you read the article?
It ain't about the silly bickering WHICH does absolutely nothing but cause us to lose focus of the very real, more vital issues. But then what else is new? lolol!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7962
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 08:38 pm: |
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Oh, so now all black women are treated equally. Or does the dreaded colorism rear its ugly head when it comes to movie roles and regular jobs and leadership positions as so many of you claim. There was another woman representing blackness in the Norbert movie who was the anti-thesis of the fat loud one. Was Bodunde speaking for this woman? All black women might be subjected to racism but not all of them will be subjected to "fatism". |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4138
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 08:44 pm: |
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I don't even know what the above article has to do with racism. Because people are discriminated against for being fat, ugly, bucktooth, bowlegged, and dumb. It sounds to me like the fugly ••••• is trying to play the race card when it doesn't really apply.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7964
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 09:00 pm: |
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LMAO. True dat. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4971
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 09:37 pm: |
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Who's surprised a high school drop-out would read it that way, now really...??? (ROTFLMAO)
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4140
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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Actually, Tonya - I didn't read it all. It's a waste of my time to read some insignificant person's opinions about how fat black bitches are perceived. I simply made a comment that people are discriminated against for other reasons besides simply being Black. Let me elaborate further with an easy to comprehend pictorial.
If you have crazy hair - people might not like you
If you're fat - people might not like you
If you have an attitude - people might not like you
If you stink - people might not like you
And if you're just plain crazy - people might not like you
Being Black isn't the only reason that people won't like you.
But you know that already.
•••••!!!
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Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4972
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:00 pm: |
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If you're a high school drop-out (an old haggity one at that) people might not like you.
Yeah - got it.
It's never too late.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7967
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:20 pm: |
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Being a high school drop out is not an automatic stigma for a person. Some of the dumbest people I know graduated from high school. And spare me all of the college graduates who are not well-informed, and only know about the subject they majored in. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4141
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:26 pm: |
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To Cynique - 
To Tonya - Shut up Weezy! 
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 908
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:39 am: |
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i will agree that fat darkskinned women seem to have the undesirable stereotype stamped on them, but fat white women and hispanic women get the same sort of love thrown their way in movies too. so i am trying to see if this is about fat darkskinned women or fat women all together. personally i couldn't see myself going to a movie where the main female character was fat no matter what color she was, especially if it where to be a romantic movie or something, it would only garner up some intrest for me if it where a comedy. that may sound offensive, but it's the truth. and as far as the writer complaining about alicia keys vs. india arie (alicia smoked her in record sales and every other measurement of success for singers) ... halle berry vs. angela bassett they are basically the same complextion, no mater who took the part it wouldn't have made much of a difference monsters ball sucked! seeing angela bassett with billie bob thorton would have been just as gross as seeing halle berry with him. halle berry looked so gross when she kissed charles dutton in gothika too... her kissing dobes23 however, would be a beautiful thing. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4144
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 01:29 am: |
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Would you do a fat Halle??? |
Schakspir
Veteran Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 927
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 02:00 am: |
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No. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9004
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:38 pm: |
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Tonya,
There is without doubt an effort afoot to 'Whiten' the beauty of Black women. Black men contribute to such. And Black women contribute to such. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2059
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 02:16 pm: |
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doberman...i would agree that fat people catch hell from everyone, but there is a hierarchy, and black women catch it the worst....
because they're not only 'fat' but 'ghetto' and emasculating!
that falls in line with the weak black man..held down by the matriarchal black woman. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4979
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 03:43 pm: |
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Abm: Yep. Black men and Black women are against it.
And she's against herself.
I’ve never seen anything like it.
Yukio: I wish everybody knew this stuff.
It would make these conversations much easier.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7975
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 04:03 pm: |
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Who doesn't know this? The black race is at the bottom of the totem pole so it figures that black men and women would occupy the place they do in society. That's not rocket science, and it's presumptuous of people to elevate themselves to a postition wherein they feel that have to reveal to black people what they already know. All of this is just recycled information; the same ol, the same ol. The interesting thing, Tonya, is that you are always crowing about how you couldn't care less about trifling black men and that you personally don't suffer from the effects of colorism and that you'd have no trouble hooking up with a white man. LOL |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4983
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
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¬ Case in point |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7981
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 05:19 pm: |
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A rebuttal would be more credible. LOL |
Doberman23
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Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 914
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 11:35 pm: |
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if halle berry where fat i wouldn't even mention her name, and neither would any of you. if she where the way she is now and then got fat over the next few years then people would be salivating like a wolf ... waiting to sink their teeth into the woman, and beat that horse until it was nothing but hooves.
yukio ... queen latifah is fat and she doesn't play that kinda role, but she isn't all that dark either. loretta devine also is fat and she is dark skinned and she doesn't play that mammie role. both of them are high caliber actresses. |
Yukio
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Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 03:18 am: |
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doberman23, you are speaking about black actresses as if they have individuated personalities....
The majority of the population, according to the article, see them as cardboard, listless specimens of woman; they may have different complexions, hairstyles, etc...but they are the same person...that is what the article is criticizing this perspective.
The article is about stereotypes, how it is reflected in movies, and then internalized by larger society.
Your point then irrelevant to the article, in fact. Furthermore, I really doubt if many black people older than 40yrs, and few white people regardless of age, would be able to distinguish Loretta Divine from the majority of black actresses her size. |
Chrishayden
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Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3962
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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Being a high school drop out is not an automatic stigma for a person. Some of the dumbest people I know graduated from high school. And spare me all of the college graduates who are not well-informed, and only know about the subject they majored in
(But I thought you LOOOOVED you some middle class folks?--now you look down on somebody who gots an edumencation? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8002
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:35 pm: |
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Your brain is so obtuse that you can't differentiate between giving credit where credit it due, chrishayden. You think all poor people are good and all middle class people are bad. You just don't get it. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4993
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 03:02 pm: |
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LOL,
Talk about "well-informed". Goodness. We can’t even get a discussion on this thread without stopping every other second for the "well-informed". Yeah right.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8011
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 03:23 pm: |
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Well you don't seem well-informed enough to discern that the discussion ran its course inasmuch everybody expressed their opinion on the subject. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 915
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 07:31 pm: |
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yukio if my bringing up loretta devine and queen latifah is irrelevant then this entire article is irrelevant. the movies and women in which the writer is complaining about are comedies, ALL comedies. ALL fat women in comedies are the blunt of all jokes, they are always mean, desperate, and any other unflattering based images. the writer then goes on a tagent about halle beryy and angela bassett, alicia keys and india arie ... so needless to say that the same people who know who neil carter is would know who loretta devine is. ALL comedies exagerate their characters, so if the writer doesn't like it then she should steer clear of comedies. the surfer dude will always say "woah, rad, and killer" ... the pimp is extra pimpy, the hill billy will always be dumb, and so on and so forth. so yukio it is very relevant, and nell carter also didn't play that role that the writer mentioned. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8022
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 11:18 am: |
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Well, Dobes, you've really been stepping it up lately. But this shouldn't come as a surprise since the same cleverness it takes to be a wit is the same mentality it takes to utilize analogy. And analogy is always a good tool in making a point. So who you taking in the final 4? Going with the Big 10?? |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2099
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 02:14 pm: |
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Doberman23, i presumed that u used Loretta D and Queen La was to make a point--that not all black actresses are portrayed as mammies or pejoratively.
I said that your point is relevant--though that may have been too strong a word--because you have identified the exception rather than the rule.
Your subsequent analysis again is problematic. , Your post presumes that movies are just movies and actors are just actors, and that one exaggeration is equal to another exaggeration. That is presuming that All is Equal Under the Sun. This is fallacious. There is a very long history, that is in fact alive and well, of inequality in regards to the quality and quantities of roles for black actors.
1. The majority of roles that whites play illustrate the diversity of the human experience.
2. The majority of roles black play illustrate the sameness of the black experience.
This is why black actors, especially black women, complain about their limited opportunities in Hollywood. And if you are a larger women, you roles are even more circumscribed.
On the tangent:
She actually does, perhaps poorly, what you did, that is make comparison, as the acute Cynique points out, in order to make a point:
Actually, i didn't comment upon angela bassett and others. But, in fact, the author uses these people to make the point that while there is a discussion of "the female experience of racism," this discussion has been limited to colorism or a superficial engagement w/ color and weight--ie beyonce/hudson...issues ancillary to what the author believes to be more profound and important!
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 916
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:49 pm: |
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yukio: you nor the writer can use a comedy to seriously state a point. think about it. the writer is only talking about comedies and fat black actresses, not all actresses but heavy, plump, curvacious, thick, portly ones. the writer only discussed comedies. the writer only discusses comedies. so therefor the complaint that writer has is pertaining to those characters in comedies. your argument is irrelevant, because you can't use comedies as a basis for serious examples of black people.
fin. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 917
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:51 pm: |
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cynique
i have to route for the big ten ... i think ohio state vs. florida ... and florida beats them in basketball this time. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2117
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:05 pm: |
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Dobes, if I may, you have taken Cynique's compliment too seriously. LOL!
This is not logic, wherein we need to maintain the integrity of the object/category of analysis. Bodunde is not interested in what would work on a Truth Table, for she is talking about real life., about "the female experience of racism."
Bodunde's subject is not large black women comedies, it is the female experience of racism, as does the title and the topic sentence of the very first paragraph tells us. She used Eddie Murphy's movie as an example, an illustration.
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Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 918
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:54 am: |
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well i guess we agree to disagree, you see the article one way and see i it differently.
i see it as her having a beef with the way fat black women are portrayed in comedies and you see it as her saying that she is complaining about all black women and all genres of movies.
is it racist when a white person produces a movie with fat black women in a certain manner, or is it sexist when a black person cast a fat black character in the same manner? the prejudice is aimed at the overweight people, awwww forget it ... we agree to disagree. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2128
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:09 am: |
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Nowhere doe she say that she has "a beef with the way fat black women are portrayed in comedies." But the title and the topic sentence and the transitional sentences, and finally the conclusion is about "the female experience of racism."
Your failure to see this is exemplified in your claim that "the writer then goes on a tagent about halle beryy and angela bassett, alicia keys and india arie ..."
But its only a tangent because of your misreading. If you take her for her word, it should be clear:
1.This version of OPPRESSION [my emphasis] is completely de-politicized, . . .
2.The mainstream representation, if there ever was one, of the FEMALE EXPERIENCE OF RACISM [emphasis mine]is limited to trite debates where light-skinned and dark-skinned Black women are positioned against each other — à la India Arie/Alicia Keys of a few Grammys past, or Jennifer Hudson/Beyoncé of “Dreamgirls,” or, hell . . .
It is as plain as day...but if you want to defer to perspective rather than what she wrote...that is your prerogative. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 919
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:56 am: |
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1. first 4 paragraphs are about norbit and fat black female character. "Her image, however, consistently gets green-lighted as an appropriate form of comedy for the masses."
2. paragraph 5 she talks about the light skinned vs. dark skin. which is a tagent because it was pointless to even bring this up in her argument.
3. then she goes back top norbit, asking how a comedy beat out a musical (action adventure, sci-fi, dramas, and even foreign films whip on musicals on a daily basis).
4. then back to norbit some more, and then brings up nell carter's comedy sitcom give me a break ... then she says "I know Black women who look like Murphy’s female character Rasputia in “Norbit.” They are all beautiful, complex women who, as a result of real conditions in this world brought on by racism and capitalism, are overweight. ". which furthermore proves my point that she has an issue (beef) with the way fat black women are portrayed in comedy movies (comedies are her only example.
4. then she states "To repeatedly exaggerate us on the big screen as if it were reality and just to entertain everyone is wrong. As is being told in a multitude of ways that being Black, female and overweight is synonymous with being loud, unattractive and undesirable. It is not merely a matter of depoliticized self-esteem. It is an unacceptable, systematic practice of disregarding and disrespecting a significant and specific part of the population. " geez yukio how much more do you want? it's all right there what her issue is ... it's the exageration of the listed stereotypes of overweight black women.
5. now her last paragraph is broad enough to cover all black women, i'll give you that. but if 90% of the article is based on her being offended by the way that overweight black women are portrayed in comedies, then that would make the article about what 90% of it is about.
use common sense on this one, if i wrote an article about green apples tasting better with caramel with the exception of the last paragraph. went on a tagent to talk about strawberries and grapes for a second. then went back to green apples to state my point about green apples and caramel being the best. then finally finished it up with one last paragraph about all apples (red, yellow, grannies, green, etc.) ... the smart reader would gather that the article was about green apples and caramel being the best or at least i was talking about green apples and caramel. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 920
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:57 am: |
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the title should have been "The fat female experience of racism in comedy movies" |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2131
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 01:54 pm: |
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Ok. One more time. While you believe that the article is about "The fat female experience of racism in comedy movies," for some strange reason the author or editor decided to entitle the article:
The female experience of racism
Quick lesson in rhetoric:
You must be able to decipher the thesis from the description, and the description from argumentation.
1. first 4 paragraphs are about norbit and fat black female character. "Her image, however, consistently gets green-lighted as an appropriate form of comedy for the masses."
No, the first paragraph uses norbit as a case to explain The female experience of racism. What you have identified is description. But for the thesis it is generally best to first look to the title, and then to the first paragraph:
I was intrigued when I heard another Black woman use the phrase that is the headline of this article [first sentence immediately directs us to the topic]. It sounded different from sexism. And it could just be all words at this point, but whenever I see the larger-than-life ads for Eddie Murphy’s new movie “Norbit,” the phrase rises to the surface again [key sentence: introduces the case AND links it to what? what phrase rises to the surface again? This is also important because she is reinforcing the theme, that is, the female experience of racism] The ad features two images of Murphy — one as a meek, glasses-donning version of himself and the other as a severely overweight Black woman who’s pinning him down. This particular image of a Black woman is where I have to acknowledge the female experience of racism [and once again...we have topic sentence, we have the case, and we have reinforced the topic in the concluding sentence of the first paragraph].
Good luck with reading! |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 923
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:07 pm: |
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lol good luck yourself ... i think we're both done with this. i am, but you can knock yourself out with it. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2133
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:39 pm: |
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lol good luck yourself ...
Thank you! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8050
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 06:00 pm: |
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Yep, Dobes, I gotta go with the Big 10, too. After Illinois tanked, I figure if I'm going to root for anyone, it'lll be a team representing the midwest. |
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