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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3700
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 11:49 am: | 
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A new twist to an intriguing family history
Census records, genealogical research show forebears of Obama's mother had slaves
By David Nitkin and Harry Merritt
March 2, 2007
WASHINGTON -- Many people know that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's father was from Kenya and his mother from Kansas.
But an intriguing sliver of his family history has received almost no attention until now: It appears that forebears of his white mother owned slaves, according to genealogical research and census records.
The records - which had never been addressed publicly by the Illinois senator or his relatives - were first noted in an ancestry report compiled by William Addams Reitwiesner, who works at the Library of Congress and practices genealogy in his spare time. The report, on Reitwiesner's Web site, carries a disclaimer that it is a "first draft" - one likely to be examined more closely if Obama is nominated.
According to the research, one of Obama's great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama's great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.
The Sun retraced much of Reitwiesner's work, using census information available on the Web site ancestry.com and documents retrieved by the Kentucky Department for Libraries and Archives, among other sources. The records show that Overall, then 30, owned a 15-year-old black female and a 25-year-old black male, while Mary Duvall, his mother-in-law, owned a 60-year-old black man and a 58-year-old black woman. (Slaves are listed in the 1850 census by owner, age, "sex," and "colour," not by name.)
An Obama spokesman did not dispute the information and said that the senator's ancestors "are representative of America."
"While a relative owned slaves, another fought for the Union in the Civil War," campaign spokesman Bill Burton said last night. "And it is a true measure of progress that the descendant of a slave owner would come to marry a student from Kenya and produce a son who would grow up to be a candidate for president of the United States."
The research traces the Duvalls to Mareen Duvall, a major land owner in Anne Arundel County in the 1600s. The inventory of his estate in 1694 names 18 slaves, according to a family history published in 1952.
The records could add a new dimension to questions by some who have asked whether Obama - who was raised in East Asia and Hawaii and educated at Columbia and Harvard - is attuned to the struggles of American blacks descended from West African slaves.
"The twist is very interesting," said Ronald Walters, a political scientist who is director of the African-American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland, College Park. "It deepens his connection with the experience of slavery, even if it deepens it on a different side of the equation."
Gary Boyd Roberts, a senior research scholar at the New England Historic Genealogical Society who published a book on the family lineage of presidents, said he did not think the slave-holding history was "particularly unusual."
"If you have a white Southern mother, or a mother from the middle states who has ancestry in the South, it doesn't strike me that that should be very surprising," he said. While the majority of such families did not own slaves, many with some wealth did, Roberts said.
Reitwiesner's research identifies two other presidential candidates, Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former Democratic Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, as descendants of slave owners. Three of McCain's great-great-grandfathers in Mississippi owned slaves, including one who owned 52 in 1860. Two ancestors of Edwards owned one slave each in Georgia in 1860.
It was unclear last night whether Obama was aware of any slave-holding ancestors, but he makes no mention of them in his 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.
The book contains many approving references to his mother's side of the family. At one point, he writes that his mother "could give voice to the virtues of her midwestern past and offer them up in distilled form."
The memoir, however, comes close to confirming the Overall-Duvall lineage - stopping a generation short. Census and other records complete the gaps.
In a reference to his American ancestry, Obama writes "while one of my great-great-grandfathers, Christopher Columbus Clark, had been a decorated Union soldier, his wife's mother was rumored to have been a second cousin of Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy."
Clark was actually Obama's great-great-great-grandfather, according to Reitwiesner's research and census data available at ancestry.com. A 1930 census document lists Clark, 84, living in the same El Dorado City, Kan., household as a 12-year-old great-grandson, Stanley A. Dunham. Dunham was Obama's grandfather.
Clark's wife, Susan, was the daughter of George Washington Overall, the latest known family slave owner.
Reitwiesner, the researcher, declined to be interviewed for this article. "I'll let my Web page [wargs.com] speak for itself," he said in an e-mail. The Obama report contains a disclaimer that appears on all of Reitwiesner's work: "The following material ... should not be considered either exhaustive or authoritative, but rather as a first draft."
Genealogical experts who reviewed the Obama family tree at the request of The Sun would not vouch for its findings.
Most of the historical entries lack citations of authenticating source material, such as birth and death certificates or marriage licenses, said Barbara Vines Little, past president of the National Genealogical Society in Virginia, adding that "he has nothing here that I can see that would allow you to make any logical link."
"You just can't casually throw some documents together and make a sophisticated analysis," said Tony Burroughs, author of Black Roots: A Beginners Guide to Tracing the African American Family Tree and a consultant on a project by the New York Daily News that found that relatives of former Sen. Strom Thurmond appear to have owned the ancestors of civil rights activist the Rev. Al Sharpton.
But Roberts, the New England scholar, collaborated with Reitwiesner on a 1984 book about the American roots of Princess Diana, and calls him "exceptionally bright" and "quite a good researcher."
The online Obama family tree, Roberts said, is the work of "an informal team of genealogists" who specialize in Internet-based research and post their findings to test their validity.
"When you are gathering up things from the Internet, you can get fantastical - by that I mean wild and unbelievable - connections," Roberts said. "Many of them will fall; only a few of them will hold up. But some absolutely extraordinary things do hold up."
Assisting in the Obama research was Christopher Challender Child, a genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society, who said that Reitwiesner culled fragments from a variety of sources. "There's a limit to what you can verify without a lot of money," Child said. "But from what I see, the line looks pretty good."
For some, the records may underscore Obama's unique racial heritage as a presidential candidate.
Author and essayist Debra J. Dickerson wrote in a January salon.com article that she had previously refrained from opining about the senator because "I didn't have the heart (or the stomach) to point out the obvious: Obama isn't black."
" 'Black,' in our political and social reality, means those descended from West African slaves," Dickerson said.
Walters, who was deputy campaign manager for Jesse Jackson in 1984 and the author of Black Presidential Politics in America, agreed that questions raised by Dickerson and others "is an important debate."
"What people are really asking is, 'Can I trust this guy? Do I have confidence in this guy? Does he understand my situation, and therefore [is he] able to take my issues into the political system?'" Walters said.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/politics/bal-te.obama02mar02,0,3453 027.story
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3794
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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Paid for by the Hillary Clinton for President Campaign Committee. |
Libralind2
Veteran Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 686
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 07:29 pm: |
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Oh good grief..
LiLi |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4648
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 08:22 pm: |
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Watta ya know!!! His ONLY true link to our past is thru a friggin slave master...
...Say it ain't so!
ROTFLMBAO--whoooooo--too much!!!
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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 821
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 09:16 pm: |
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Sorry Mzuri. It won't work.
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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 09:34 pm: |
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Tonya, that is likely all the other candidates' "true link" to our past as well. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4652
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 09:52 pm: |
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...good, so they're even... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7563
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 09:57 pm: |
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Technically most black Americans have slave masters in their family background isasmuch as they are the descendants of slave masters who fathered children with their female slaves. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3709
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 10:06 pm: |
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Nels - I don't understand your comment. I have no motive other than to post a news story that some of us may find relevant. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3710
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 10:08 pm: |
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You're probably right, as usual, Cynique. We are both the slave and the slave master  |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3819
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
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You're probably right, as usual, Cynique. We are both the slave and the slave master
(That is the dumbest thing you have said all year.
So where's dat picture of you a settin' on de po'ch, sippin' mint juleps while de darkies seranaded yuh?
You were picking cotton, not selling it. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3722
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:17 pm: |
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As if you're the authority on what's dumb.  |
Savant
Regular Poster
Username: Savant
Post Number: 156
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:48 am: |
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Barack's speech from Brown Chapel A.M.E. Church in Selma, Alabama will be broadcast live on C-Span today at approximately 12:30 pm EST. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1943
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 03:25 pm: |
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"But an intriguing sliver of his family history has received almost no attention until now: It appears that forebears of his white mother owned slaves, according to genealogical research and census records."
So, I guess there was some earth shattering point to be made or perhaps we need to know this so we can indirectly blame Obama. It's good to know that Obama and Sharpton are the only blacks living in America whose genealogy and history can be traced to slavery and slave owners. See how blessed we are?
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Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 854
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 06:35 pm: |
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most black americans are NOT the descendants of the slave master and their black female slaves.
while its true that the white slave master raped many black females and fathered many children with these women, that vast majority of our people are NOT the descendants of these raped black women.
you had one slave master on a plantation, and hundreds of slaves.
logically, the numbers could not support the idea that the majority of black americans are the descendants of white slave masters.
for every one child born of a white (rapist) slave master and a black female slave, there were probably THOUSANDS of births to black male and female slaves.
most black americans are not the descendants of the slave master. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 551
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 08:37 pm: |
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...I'm still voting for him! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7596
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 10:31 pm: |
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What you say is not an exact science and can be challenged, Lil-Z, because mixed slaves multiplied just as much as pure ones did and when mixed slaves mated with pure bloods, then they became mixed. The white blood of slave masters trickled on down through the blood lines of slaves descendents which is why today African Americans come in all colors and have all types of facial features and grades of hair. It is even possible for a dark-skinned black person to have recessant white genes that manifest themselves in some area other than skin tone. |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 857
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:42 pm: |
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the reason black americans come in all colors, have all types of facial features, and grades of hair is NOT because "the blood of the slave master trickled down".
im sure we will not agree on this subject.
even if the off-spring of the slave master and the raped black female, did mate with the "full bloods", there still were not enough births from these white slave master/black female rapes, to change the entire physical structure of our people.
this type of thought is used to strip our people of their unique physical traits.
black americans don't look the way they do, because of the "trickling" down of the blood of the slave master, thats non-sense.
you can go to jamaica, and see the same physical looks you see amongst black americans.
our people in jamiaca don't look the way they do because of the "trickling down" of the blood of the slave master.
our people are unique looking.
we don't have to look to the white man for the reason behind this. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7604
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
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No, we will not agree on this subject, Lil-Z. American slaves were brought here primarily from Nigeria. And if the average black person today doesn't look like a pure Nigerian then what is your explanation for how different we all look. Did we just spontaneously change our appearance??? Yes, after slavery there was an infusion of native American blood into the mix and the reason for the "unique" way ex-slaves look today is because they are a combination of black, white and red blood. And, also, the slave masters and their sons took their pick of slave women to take to bed. They didn't just limit it to one. A big plantation could be crawling with this mixed progeny who made up the populaton of house and yard "niggas |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 860
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 12:53 am: |
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cynique, i don't know where you get your information from.
"the majority of american slaves were brought from nigeria" ???????????
thats non-sense.
the slaves that were brought to the new world were brought from various locations on the african continent.
the reason our people don't look like the inhabitantes of nigeria, is because our people are a distinct racial group.
no we just did not "spontaneously" change our appearence.
our people looked the way they do today when we were dwelling in the land of africa.
there are different "dark" racial groups allm over the planet earth.
the black americans, west indians etc are a distinct racial group.
our people don't resemble the nigerians, not because of the influx of the slave masters blood, but because we NEVER looked like the nigerians.
the idea that we at one time looked like the nigerians, and after we were brought to america, we all of a sudden look nothing like them is insane.
the black america slaves were not brought primarily from nigeria.
the arab slave traders were capturing our people from various places in africa where we were dwelling.
zanzibar was one of the places we were being taken from.
when marcus garvey wanted to take blacks from the new world back to africa, the nigerians said that they would NOT accept these ships, because these were not their people.
the nations in africa understand that the black americans, west indian etc are a distinct, seperate racial group.
the explanation for how we all look different we all look is clear.
our people look different because we are a unique nation.
im sure we will not agree on this.
i did not sat that the slave master, nor his sons limited their rape victims to one.
i am saying that there could not have possibly been the amount of births (of white men and black female slaves), that would change the entire physical look of our people.
they way our people look today, is the way we looked when we dwelled in africa.
they way will smith, whitney houston, jada pinkett, michael jordan, lawrence fishburne, ciara, t.i. etc look today, is the same way we looked one thousand years ago.
it might be difficult for some to grasp what im saying.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7606
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 09:14 am: |
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Well, I think my information is as "accurate" as yours, Lil-Ze. Unless there is extensive DNA testing, nobody can speak with certainty on this subject. But the slaves brought to America were from West Africa, generally around Nigeria specifically from the Yoruba, Ibo and Mandigo tribes. Down through the years the hybrid slaves reproduced themselves and mixed in with the full breeds, and with the passage of time a unique species did emerge that is not pure anything, and white blood is undoubtedly a part of that make-up. And you have no idea what the bloodlines of Jada Pinkett and Michael Jordan and Laurence Fishburn are. MJ's brothers and sisters don't look a lot like him. They are much shorter and a shade lighter and they all come from the same parents. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 8630
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 12:30 pm: |
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Troy,
Me too.
Foks know they can get crazy with all this kneegrow qualification bvllshyt. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1981
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 05:09 am: |
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"Foks know they can get crazy with all this kneegrow qualification bvllshyt."
Exactly! It never ceases to amaze me how one chicken shit rant, dig or inflammatory cheap shot after another, about this black man, is embraced, celebrated and high fived by confused Negroes. Nothing but derisive speculation and trash talking minus any substance or serious political analysis. It's amazing.......
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